My crossroads decision - need some wisdom and advice

[TonyaV]

Sorry a little lengthy - please read and comment. I am really lost as to what I should do.

This morning I was commenting on another thread, about coming out to your SO, and why many of us have been married for a long time did not tell our SO before our marriage. My first reaction was - What if you didn't really know your own "condition" early on in life?....

As I was writing my reply, I realized that I am going through the toughest time right now, and it looks I am going to be at major crossroads where, in order to be true to myself, I have to make a decision - stay or leave. I feel lost, all alone, sad and depressed. I am not usually this undecided, but this is a very important matter. In order to solicit the best advice possible from my friends and sisters out-there, I am going to open up as much as I can (this is a first).

There goes my story:

Childhood – Age 0 to 20 – I grew-up in the Middle East. It's true I played with my mother's shoes and clothes as a child. But I had sisters and no brothers to compare myself to, so I wasn’t sure what was normal and what was not. I played with the neighbor's boys every now and then. I was always exposed to females at home. I was especially pampered by my older sister (4 years older). She manicured me, gave me facials, etc… We did not shy from one another when naked, as if were in front of another girl. For the record, she did not try anything sexual with me (one can never tell the other person’s mind, though; but there are times when I wondered if she had any ideas but did not act on them – me, I was clueless). I go along with girls at schools, so I hung out with many of them rather than with the boys. I believe I had to be a pretty boy because I used to notice men often hitting on me, and some would proposition. I crossed the line few times, and eventually, I gave into a married guy in his late 20’s, with which I had more than encounter. This situation lasted about two years. I am not sure what it was that attracted me to him. I used to get drawn to his smell (beyond the perfume – his body; pheromone maybe?). All the while, I was also dating girls, but the attention he gave me, kept me coming back for more. He treated me better than his own wife. He bought me gifts. He took me with him to Europe on a business trip. I was approximately 16 or 17, when I broke it off. We remained friends, but this whole affair haunted me. By the time I was 20 or so, I became resentful toward men. When I shake a man's hand who tries hugging me, even to this day, I get uncomfortable (I am very comfortable hugging, touching, and kissing women).


Manhood - I got the opportunity to come to the USA to finish school. This seems like a big break for me. I felt like I needed to escape from that environment and these deviant experiences that were haunting me. I wasn’t sure if there were anything wrong with me or what. I felt that in the USA, being a not-so-manly man is more acceptable than back on the “old country”. I could start a new life. In college, I made male friends, dated girls, and lived what is perceived to be a normal man’s life. I frequented the gym, and worked on bulking up. Graduated, started a career, and I married at 25, and started a family – had three beautiful kids. I was living a 100% hetero manly life. I must have been able to block all of my past very well.

Then, a little over 10 years ago (I am 50 now), I became self-employed, which allowed me the luxury to work at home. During breaks, out of curiosity, I started checking out my wife's clothes. The, one Halloween night, I decided to go out cross-dressed, while away from home. I bought my first outfit – denim mini skirt, pink sweater, wig, 4-inch boots, etc... That was my first time ever in public. Being Halloween, it made it easy to get away with it. With the help of a bi acquaintance, I got dolled-up using her make-up, and she accompanied on our night out. She took me to a TG friendly bar. I have to say, between the newly-discovered feeling of the breeze up my skirt, and the compliments and advances I received from men and women, that night in the bar and while we walked around, I got hooked on the "whole idea". I thoroughly enjoyed myself, and it’s downhill from here.

From that point on, I became more in-tune with women's mannerisms to improve mine. I started practicing walking, sitting, etc… I became more interested in fashion magazines, and began to build-up my wardrobe, which I used to hide at a storage facility, in order to be able to access on my way out of town, which I did often for work. When I’d try to analyze what I was doing, I’d think I was one of very few people who are simply sick and screwed-up for having such twisted behavior. Every now and then, I'd purge. Before long, the urges would come back stronger. Eventually, dressing up became more and more frequent, and became more receptive to men hitting on me and wanting me, and I liked that (a few times I’d surrender to their arms, only to cry my eyeballs out after they would leave the hotel room, for what I was doing was wrong). As things were progressing in the deepest of my soul and being, my head kept telling me to be strong, and that I could fight these urges off. I am a man with a beautiful loving wife in a healthy marriage with great kids; I shouldn’t mess-up everyone else’s life because my screwed up behaviors. They didn’t do anything to deserve to get hurt. These are my demons, and they are mine to deal with, on my own. But I was easier said than done. Instead to giving it all up, I started shaving my legs, chest, and underarms, even plucking my eyebrows. I was such great feeling to be girl. Never felt better. My wife, although complained about my prickly legs at times, didn't mind since I had told her my leg hair was bothering me on long drives. Then, a few years ago, I joined this Forum, and started to learn more about myself and others like me. Finally, about two years ago, I came out to her. At first, I thought she had accepted it. She acted interested and asked me all kind of personal questions. I only told her about liking to cross-dress, but never volunteered information about any male contact I have had. I know it would crush her.

Soon after, she came to me with a clear choice - either the marriage or cross-dressing. At that time, I was really enjoying being Tonya, and going out regularly, still behind her back, I was weighing my options, and was actually leaning toward leaving the marriage and start enjoying being Tonya, and maybe eventually transitioning. In the beginning, I had thought it may have been some strange fetish. The more I was in femme mode, the more I felt the femme inside me screaming to come out. It slowly became clear that it wasn’t sexually driven; rather an identity conflict. That’s where things get complicated.

While my wife and I were discussing my “condition”, she asked that I get my T-level checked. We did, and it was low. In the meantime, I had been working out in order to cast out these demons inside of me. Her conclusion was that the supplements I was taking were messing up my sexual drive and desire, and therefore, I should stop all of it, and stick to the T injections prescribed. I gladly obliged. She also demanded I stop shaving. As if this was not complicated enough, within less than a month, she was diagnosed with breast cancer. At that point, any possible plans for Tonya had to stop. My wife is seriously ill, and I’ve got to take care of her, and I did. I just couldn't be selfish. She constantly thanks me for being there for her, and admits she couldn’t have gone through it without me. She's better now, though, (with nice bigger ones).

She does not know the extent of my deep inner-female feelings, and I don’t think I can ever tell her. She recently caught me off-guard (her style) and asked me about my desire to dress up. I wasn’t ready for it, so I denied it. I then followed up saying “but what if the urges come back, our marriage is very strong, I would think you will reluctantly tolerate it”. She immediately replied "I can't stop you if you want to do it. You can; but I will not stick around. I married a man". I know she meant it.

I am not sure what to do. I know for a fact that if I stay in the marriage, I have to suppress my inner-self and be miserable for the sake of her and the kids, whom I love more than anything. The other option is to go my own way, and once on my own, be free to be who I think I was meant to be. I don’t believe opening up to about Tonya will help, either way.

Sorry for the lengthy story. I just don’t have anyone but you to talk to about it.

I love you all. Thanks

Tonya

[Shelly Preston]

Tonya

You have done what seems like a great job in analysing your situation. You are in a tough spot and you might need professional help. Either way all I can see at the moment is heartbreak as its looks like a no win position.

I think you have to do a lot of talking with your wife to have any chance of sorting this out. She has given you an ultimatimum which is never good. Negoiation seems your best option even if it through counselling.

Good luck for the future

[kimdl93]

It seems that you really have no choice right now. You really must support your wife during this time of critical need. That being said, you do not have to totally reject your identity. Could you consider taking a hiatus until you know that your wife is fully recovered,as we pray she will?

Then, when this episode is behind you, try to restart the conversation with your wife. If the subject comes up while she is in treatment, don't shy from the,conversation, but emphasize that your concern right now is getting her well.

[TonyaV]

Shelly - first of, thank you for taking the time to read my long post. You see, I know any way you slice it, There will be hurt. My thinking is to split-up without hashing out my gender identify problem. Because, if I do, knowing she would not take it lightly, the word will eventually get to the kids, and I will be hurting four people. If I leave for other more supposed conventional reasons, the kids can live with it. Divorces happen all the time.

I am not sure professional help can do much in my case. I only told her a story of me putting on a dress while laying down in my hotel room while traveling, which I said happened a couple of times. Even that is potentially sending us off the cliff. Otherwise, our marriage is healthy. I am the one living the lie.

[ArleneRaquel]

Your wife's needs should be priority #1 IMO, dressing, no matter how strong are desires are should be placed on hold when another humans well being is at stake. If I sound rough I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound mean. Hugs & Best Wishes.

[LelaK]

My own choice would be to wait till the kids are grown, because I think it's most responsible to be there for them as much as possible, until they're grown.

I would not hide my CD desires from my kids though, so they wouldn't be too shocked after they reach maturity and I start having more open CD fun.

[TonyaV]

Kim - she was very lucky with respect to her cancer. They caught it in Stage Zero and it had not spread. She had a double mastectomy and nice 3-D reconstruction over a years ago. The subject does come up every now and then - if we see a TS/TG character on TV or out. That's why I am starting to consider my options.

My kids are 24, 22, and 20. They're grown. I am still there for them. I pay for all their school, cars, expenses, etc...

Arlene - like I just answered Kim, my wife was very lucky with respect to her cancer. They caught it in Stage Zero and it had not spread. She had a double mastectomy and nice 3-D reconstruction over a years ago. So, her medical condition is actually behind us, now. While she was sick, I dropped everything and took care of her around the clock. She does tell me all the time she couldn't have done it without me.

[ArleneRaquel]

Tonya,
Wonderful to hear. Much love from me to you & your wife.

[ClosetED]

You are likely to get many opinions. From 0-20, you mention interactions with female family members but not male. This may have led you to some feminine aspects. The person who gave you the most attention was a man and you naturally liked that. You did not mention if you acted feminine with him. Then you were "100% hetero manly" and made a family for many years with no mention of CDing or desires. When you became self-employed, which certainly may have added a lot more stress, you looked for a way to unburden those stresses and took on female clothing and accoutrements to make you feel better. However, having sexual relations with a person outside of marriage is certainly a different issue regarding honesty and not to mention HIV and STDs. You did the right thing to concentrate on your wife's health when she needed you. Interesting that when business was less the major issue compared to health that you were able to do without Tonya. Your wife was initially willing to allow some things, but wants a man. But the aspects that she fell in love with - kindness, sensitivity, caring - are still part of you and if you can compromise to stay monogamous and less body changes, you may still be able to keep your family intact.

[DebbieL]

You both need to go to couples counseling with a therapist who has experience in Gender Identity issues. A few points are significant. First, you were perceived by others as being feminine, which resulted in men coming on to you. You also had other indicators that would make it seem that your wife probably knew that you were effeminate. It may have even been a key element of what made you attractive to her. There may have once been a time when she would have actually enjoyed feminizing you herself, and maybe even had you do more of the housework and so on. Did you try to force her to conform to gender roles? Did you pressure her to wear clothes that YOU wanted to wear even though you knew she didn't really like them?

Have you kept checking your medical status? If she got an STD from you and you don't know it, that could be a seriously big problem. What you write tells me that you are probably transsexual and probably would be a good candidate for transition if that's what you want. The bigger question is whether you are willing to do what it takes to transition? You should work through this decision carefully with a therapist who can asses both you and your wife. It may be that your wife doesn't want anything to do with Tanya. It could be that your wife is JEALOUS of Tanya, wishing that she could have been able to know her over all those years. She my feel that Tonya is a rival.

If your wife knew that you had a fatal disease, that the chances of survival without treatment was less than 25% and with treatment your chances go up to about 95%, would she tell you NOT to get the treatment for this fatal disease? Would she really rather be your WIDOW?
Is she willing to walk away and sign away all rights to anything? Is she willing to grant you a "clean break"? If she knew that you would be dead in 2 years and that she would get only be getting $1 in the will, would she still want to make you die of a fatal disease?

http://www.lauras-playground.com/transgender_mortality.htm

Since she has known for about 2 years and didn't dump you immediately, there may be some other issues involved. Therapist can help discover if there are power issues, security issues, emotional issues, trust issues, or sexuality issues that can be resolved. The therapist can also help your wife through her sexuality issues. She says she married a man, and yet it's clear that you were perceived by many to be feminine. Did she really marry a "man" or did she just marry a boy who was so pretty that he could have been a girl and just happened to have male anatomy?

You've met your obligations as a husband and father. You have made sure that she was care for financially and emotionally, you made sure that your children were cared for and provided for. You've built up a successful business. She can tell you she wants out, she could even leave, but you are not legally obligated to give her a divorce. You can make it very clear that if she wants out, she should just wait for you to die. I joke with my wife "if you want out, one of us has to die, and you won't be acquitted". She knows that I'm completely serious. I've been divorced once and I'd rather die than go through that again. If she KNEW that you would be dead when the marriage ended, would she still want out of the marriage?

Politically, Houston is not a TG friendly environment. If you were to get a divorce, and she did bring up the dressing, it's likely that the politically and religiously conservative judges would be far less sympathetic to you regardless of your legal rights.

http://www.hg.org/divorce-law-texas.html

In Texas, Adultery is grounds for unilateral divorce, but she would need legal proof to be able to file on those grounds. You cannot be compelled to testify against yourself. Get rid of any evidence of prior affairs if it exists.
If you refuse to agree that the differences are erreconcilable you cannot be FORCED into a divorce you don't want unless you have been convicted of a FELONY!

Even if you are forced into a unilateral divorce, a psychologist who is a member of the APA would testify that forcing you to conform to your gender now that you have stated a desire to transition would be mental cruelty on your wife's behalf.

If the therapist bombs out, you should probably get a good lawyer. Don't tell your wife you are filing for a divorce, work with the lawyer who will set you up to get the maximum protection of your legal rights and property. If your wife has her own career and can survive without your financial assistance, she may get nothing. The lawyer could even help you with the legal aspects of transition as well as bankruptcy and incorporation that protects you from any legal claims your wife might have on your current business.

Consider the other possibility though. It may be that you wife loves you and she is afraid of losing you. She may be afraid that if you do transition, she would lose all the legal property and marital rights she has as a wife in a heterosexual marriage. In Texas, transition would that a third party, such as an insurance campany, could have your marriage declared void because it would be a same-sex marriage - which is not legal in Texas. The insurance company could refuse to pay her your life insurance, your pension could stop, your 401k could be lost, and what she did get would be fully taxed rather than being subject to the $10 million death tax exclusion. Even if you wanted to stay "Married" you would have to form a domestic partnership as well as other partnerships that would assure economic protection BEFORE you transitioned.

[kimdl93]

well, the fact that she's past the illness changes things. (That wasnt clear in your original post...or perhaps I missed it) In that case, I think you need to resume the conversation. She's made an ultimatum. I think you should be able to point out that you stuck with her through a critical time, and think you deserve more than a take it or leave it deal. Emphasize that you love her and the kids and want this marriage to endure. But also emphasize that an ultimatum isn't the way to work through this problem. I would suggest that you'd ask her to go into couples counseling, to see if with professional support, the two of you can reach an arrangement that satisfies your needs as well as hers.

[TonyaV]

Debbie - thank you so much for taking the time to enlighten me on all these past issues, one of which, I didn't even think of. When we first were married, she used to want me to pitch in doing house work. I was very lousy at it, and still am (when I grew up, we used to have a maid and a cook), so the kitchen is generally strange territory for me. Long story short, she ended up having an affair, and wanted out. But then, eventually asked to come back, and at the time I told her I'd stay for the kids.

When I came out to her, I actually thought she would be accepting, considering all that we've been through. She's a nurse, and has had many gay co-workers, some of which have to our boat, as couples (of note - jokingly she would sometimes tell few of them "eyes off my husband"). So, I am puzzled to her reaction. You may be right that she's jealous of Tonya would look like. When I first told her, she brought one of her dresses and made me put it on, and proceeded to say, negatively "what do like about this look?".

Medically, I am checked regularly - my 'very few' extra-marital interactions" were very limited, without being too graphic - it was only oral, and they were checked/confirmed.

Transition - I would love to, but am very scared as to what can do to my kids and my mother.

I am still trying to figure out why she didn't leave. What she says, based on the little she knows, is "if I let you dress like a woman, when and where will it stops" Based on this she wants it stopped, or she'll leave.

Financially, I know her well enough, she wouldn't drag a divorce for money. She's not like that. And if she does, I don't care. She can have it.

Finally, since you mentioned the Texas courts. It is one of the reasons I would want to split up, if we do, before making CDing the center of the problems. Once all is said and done, I will be free to be who I want to be.

[TonyaV]

well, the fact that she's past the illness changes things. (That wasnt clear in your original post...or perhaps I missed it) In that case, I think you need to resume the conversation. She's made an ultimatum. I think you should be able to point out that you stuck with her through a critical time, and think you deserve more than a take it or leave it deal. Emphasize that you love her and the kids and want this marriage to endure. But also emphasize that an ultimatum isn't the way to work through this problem. I would suggest that you'd ask her to go into couples counseling, to see if with professional support, the two of you can reach an arrangement that satisfies your needs as well as hers.

I am afraid it's not this black/white simple. As was addressed in other posts, having my CDing in the center of a divorce, being in Texas, is not something I'd want, not to mention the entire family and circle of friends will find out. For all I know, I may at the end of the day want to stay in the "Middle" without fully crossing through transition. In this case, I'd want to remain in my daily profession as a male. Now you know why the situation is not an easy one. Bottom line, if I sense she's not open to allowing Tonya to be, then, divorce is imminent - no counseling. I am just going to keep picking ya'll's brains for the next couple of months. This decision is going to be my New Year's resolution.

[TonyaV]

Girls - thanks for the inputs so far. Keep the comments coming.

[kimdl93]

I am afraid it's not this black/white simple. As was addressed in other posts, having my CDing in the center of a divorce, being in Texas, is not something I'd want, not to mention the entire family and circle of friends will find out. For all I know, I may at the end of the day want to stay in the "Middle" without fully crossing through transition. In this case, I'd want to remain in my daily profession as a male. Now you know why the situation is not an easy one. Bottom line, if I sense she's not open to allowing Tonya to be, then, divorce is imminent - no counseling. I am just going to keep picking ya'll's brains for the next couple of months. This decision is going to be my New Year's resolution.

Never thought it easy. Am I understanding you correctly...in that she absolutely rules out couples therapy?

[Jenniferathome]

Finally, about two years ago, I came out to her. At first, I thought she had accepted it. She acted interested and asked me all kind of personal questions. I only told her about liking to cross-dress, but never volunteered information about any male contact I have had. I know it would crush her.

Soon after, she came to me with a clear choice - either the marriage or cross-dressing.

I am sorry about her illness, but based on this quote here, you never actually told your wife the truth, not just about men, but about transitioning! So when she passed the ultimatum she did so without knowing what is really going on. You have put her and yourself in a very bad position. And now, if you come clean, it will be just one more lie. You wife will wonder how many other lies are there. Partial truth in matters such as this are worse then holding it back.

You need to come clean when she is well. Your marriage will end but at least you can both move on and you can stop living the lie.

[Annaliese]

My heart goes out to you,

[Alice B]

I'm surely not the one to give advise in your situation. My wife also had breast cancer and has been clear now for 8 years. She knows and accepts my need to dress, but wants no part. Based upon al I;ve read in these posts I think that joint counciling is in order. She and you need to learn what her hang ups are, what your needs and deep feelings are and then make an educated desion about where things are going.

[sandra-leigh]

Professional counseling for you to start. That can be in addition to joint counseling, but you also need your own. It looks to me as if the joint could wait a bit, as there is nothing actively disintegrating in your marriage.

You currently don't know who Tonya is; you don't need to rush out of your marriage until you have a better idea of what you would do with your freedom if you had it.

[Ceri Anne]

Tonya, up to coming out to your wife, your story could be mine. My wife still doesn't know, but I know its gotta come. The only real alternative you have is to get to a councelor who is competent in TG issues. Both of you need to explore what this really is to you and each other. I too believe kids and family are most important. Prayers and best wishes.

[Shari]

Tonya, I'd love to sit down with you one evening and share a bottle of wine. My heart goes out to you.

After what you wife has told you, and in no uncertain terms, if you choose to be Tonya, then you will be on your own.

For what you will lose and perhaps even more in a divorce, ask yourself the following questions.

Is Tonya worth that much to you?
Are the feelings and needs for her so strong that it will overcome the heartaches that will surely be born of divorce?

[Moxie]

Honestly, I hope you leave your wife. She doesn't want this. She doesn't deserve this. She is NOT jealous of how you might look or any other silly justification. Women almost NEVER think this about Crossdressers.

She just wants the man she stood at the alter with, and you can't offer that any more.

So please let her free. You owe her that.

[Beverley Sims]

I do not normally encourage deceit but with your wife being sick you do need to think of your family more than yourself.
To get relief and not get too stressed you could take long drives into the country and dress in private out there. Find a lausible situation where you can leave the family, one way is say you are counseling a friend for his depression or something similar. A friend with a hobby and you are helping him with electronics or something specialist that you do. I am only saying this to give you some ideas for getting away.
It is better to deceive in this way than to have your marriage break down.
You are not cheating on your family as long as you don't find a girlfriend to share it.

[TonyaV]

Honestly, I hope you leave your wife. She doesn't want this. She doesn't deserve this. She is NOT jealous of how you might look or any other silly justification. Women almost NEVER think this about Crossdressers.

She just wants the man she stood at the alter with, and you can't offer that any more.

So please let her free. You owe her that.

DoorMat - It's as if you were reading my mind. This is kind of how I've been feeling lately. It's true I am depressed and torn inside due to suppressing my own feelings. I can could always go back to dressing behind her back as I am always traveling. But then, it's not fair to her. I just want to be absolutely certain that when I make the decision to leave, it is the right one because there will not be any turning back. And, every day that goes by, it seems I am getting closer to making that decision. I just have to get few things in order first, such as relocating my office from home, liquidating at least a couple of the extra cars (I will most likely be in a much smaller place) etc...

I am just very scared. Why am I so screwed-up?

[TonyaV]

I do not normally encourage deceit but with your wife being sick you do need to think of your family more than yourself.
To get relief and not get too stressed you could take long drives into the country and dress in private out there. Find a lausible situation where you can leave the family, one way is say you are counseling a friend for his depression or something similar. A friend with a hobby and you are helping him with electronics or something specialist that you do. I am only saying this to give you some ideas for getting away.
It is better to deceive in this way than to have your marriage break down.
You are not cheating on your family as long as you don't find a girlfriend to share it.

It is very easy for me to dress in private. I usually stay in hotels, on business trips, one or two nights a week. I did that for a very long time, but I made her a promise to stop it, and I did.

Now, during this last dry period, I never stop thinking and analyzing my situation. I realized that as I am evolving as Tonya, it's not just the dressing part I enjoy or strive to accomplish, it's the entire transformation - being a woman. It's just not the same without shaving legs. She questions if I grow my nails or shape them. I was doing so well growing my own hair. She insisted I cut it short. Although I am lucky not to be hairy (I didn't grow a beard until my 20's and it's still not thick), I feel dirty and it's very depressing. I know the alternative of fake nails and wigs, but these are just that - Fake. I want to feel authentic, and I can't. Which actually, I think, explains the reasons why I surrendered to men in the past. While in drab, I am not drawn to men. While en-femme, I feel the need to get their approval and attention. I like to feel desired, I suppose. The couple of times I crossed the line (not all way, though - oral only), they were after a long hiatus, and I had raging urges - I was at my weakest, vulnerable, drunk, and they were handsome and persistent. I don't like doing that, and I have learned my lesson.

[Kate T]

Tonya
If you want wisdom and advice then it will unfortunately come harshly from me.
You need to sit down and ask YOURSELF some very hard questions. Transition is not a game or something you try out and see if you like it. If you choose not to tell your wife BUT continue to behave and do whatever you want then please, stop deluding yourself that you are trying to "protect" your wife.

[TonyaV]

Tonya, up to coming out to your wife, your story could be mine. My wife still doesn't know, but I know its gotta come. The only real alternative you have is to get to a councelor who is competent in TG issues. Both of you need to explore what this really is to you and each other. I too believe kids and family are most important. Prayers and best wishes.


Ceri - thank you for the kind words. I am not even considering counseling. Besides having a bad experience with the one we went to early in our marriage, when we she wanted out (he actually tried asking her out - crazy). You see, back then, we ended splitting up for few months at her request. But when finally I took that option away from her by giving her a deadline or I'd file, at the last minute she went back on her decision (that was 20 years ago).

Right now, she's comfortable with me around, taking care of every need of hers, literally. We don't cook much due to work and travel schedule. The kids help with most of the house chores. They still live at home - their college is close by. So, what I am thinking is asking to split-up without going into my "Tonya" issues. After we separate for a while, I believe she will be more open to listen to my issues and concerns. Any thoughts anyone?

[kittypw GG]

. I am a man with a beautiful loving wife in a healthy marriage with great kids;
Tonya

I have many thoughts in my mind about your story but the only thing that is safe to say is that your marriage is NOT healthy. It is based on a LIE.

[BRANDYJ]

I have read your story Tonya. It saddens me. See, I am at a very low point in my life right now. I just lost the lady I was in love with for the past 6 years. That made me think back to my divorce from a beautiful woman that never deserved my wanting out of the marriage. Not for reasons concerning crossdressing. She was very supportive about that part of me and it was never an issue. Staring in about the age you are now, I went through what might be called MEN-opause, Others call it a mid life crisis. I thought I wanted something else and at the time, became more important than even my need, desire or drive to crossdress. I discovered my desire to be dominated by a woman. That urge was stronger than my urge to crossdress! So I made the very foolish decision to end the marriage. The most painful thing that I will never forget is the pain it caused one great woman, my wife. Bluntly, if I had it all to do over again, I would have never left my wife. As much as this recent breakup with a very caring Dominant woman hurts, it does not compare to how I feel about the the pain I caused my ex-wife. Fortunately we are friends today. Yet she says she can't ever forgive me. I don't blame her.

So now I love 2 women...My ex-wife and the lady that just broke my heart. I am no longer "in love" with either of them. Talk about karma; I hurt one woman and now one has hurt me. I deserved it for what pain the divorce caused my wife.

My whole point in sharing this sad story is to make you think! Think about how alone you might be in 13 years (my age) and was it all worth it. From experience, I can answer a resounding NO! Next, that old saying, "whatch what you wish for" You may end up with deep regrets like I do now.
I'd really start thinking not about transition, but about how deep of a pink fog you are in. Because that's exactly what I think it is. We always want something more when we can't have it. The grass greener on the other side. Again, from experience, IT"S NOT TRUE!

I may not have as strong of an urge to dress as many or most here do, but none the less, it's there. But today, I'd give up dressing all together and I already feel I never ever want another dominant woman in my life. Neither one is as important, as cherished, as wonderful as having a woman that loves you and that you love and care for in return.

I feel sorry for you...I really do. If I could advise you, I'd tell you to find a middle ground with the dressing urge along with those feelings of being feminine. I'd be asking my wife how can we work this out. In my opinion, you arein for a world of hurt to give up your wife for what you "think" you want. From experience, I wish you well.

[TonyaV]

I have many thoughts in my mind about your story but the only thing that is safe to say is that your marriage is NOT healthy. It is based on a LIE.

I know what you're saying. Somewhere in my posts I may have been more specific, describing the marriage as healthy on the surface. Understandably, most marriages, if not all, are imperfect.

[TonyaV]

My whole point in sharing this sad story is to make you think! Think about how alone you might be in 13 years (my age) and was it all worth it. From experience, I can answer a resounding NO! Next, that old saying, "whatch what you wish for" You may end up with deep regrets like I do now.

One of the times my wife and I talked about what I am going through, she said almost the same thing with regards to regrets later on. I know the so-called demons I am fighting are not as simple as we describe in few posts. I am very grateful to all who are taking taking the time to read my story, comment, advise, criticize, even lecture. I think this is helping me see things from different perspectives, and hopefully be able to make the best decision I can.

[ElleduSud]

Honestly, I hope you leave your wife. She doesn't want this. She doesn't deserve this. She is NOT jealous of how you might look or any other silly justification. Women almost NEVER think this about Crossdressers.

She just wants the man she stood at the alter with, and you can't offer that any more.

So please let her free. You owe her that.

This is true. You will see a lot of CD/TG/TS folk use the phrase "Be true to yourself". Your wife probably doesn't want to be in a relationship with the False You any more than she wants to be in a relationship with Tonya.

She wants what she thought she had. If that isn't who you are, then be true to yourself and be honest with her. Don't keep trying to guilt her into a relationship with someone that she doesn't want or someone that doesn't actually exist.

To DM: Hey Chica! Hope you are well, Elle :)

[ReineD]

If you were not trans and if you had absolutely no desire to dress and be attractive to men ... if you were just as unhappy in your marriage as the large percentage of people in our culture who get divorced, for example if you had fallen deep over your head in love with a woman who made you feel more alive than you've ever felt .... what would you do? I question whether your larger motive to want to stay married is because you love your wife body and soul, or if you care more about preserving your status in your community.

If I were your wife, I would sense in the deepest part of me that my husband was not happy being with me ... for whatever reason. I would feel the unrest, the unease, the wanting to be elsewhere. I would feel the spiritual distance. I would not want to be in such a relationship.

I agree with Kitty, Doormat, and Elle, your marriage is based on a lie and your wife deserves better than this. She deserves to know what is going on.

Edit
You can straddle the middle path if you want to preserve your status in the community and if you don't want to jeopardize your income, that's up to you. But you cannot live on the middle path with a wife who is supposed to be your soul mate, pretending to be with her while you really want to be with someone else.

And last, there is no way that women are jealous of the way that transwomen look. We do not see you as competition, since we are not interested in the men who are attracted to you (I'm speaking specifically of the men who want to be with pre-op or non-op transwomen because they have "that little extra". The idea that we are jealous is purely a trans fantasy that exists in order to rationalize and feed your fantasy even more.

[Kate T]

I know what you're saying. Somewhere in my posts I may have been more specific, describing the marriage as healthy on the surface. Understandably, most marriages, if not all, are imperfect.

Most, probably all marriages, are imperfect. What they are though, at least or at least what they should be, are based on true love for each other. What the GG's are saying to you is that your marriage, from what you describe, is not based on true love for each other. What is the point of a shiny beautiful apple on the outside if the inside is rotten at the core.

[sandra-leigh]

I am not even considering counseling. Besides having a bad experience with the one we went to early in our marriage, when we she wanted out (he actually tried asking her out - crazy). You see, back then, we ended splitting up for few months at her request. But when finally I took that option away from her by giving her a deadline or I'd file, at the last minute she went back on her decision (that was 20 years ago).

20 years ago, a Scandinavian woman broke up with me. I won't consider dating another Scandinavian woman ??

That was then, this is now, the situation is different, and you aren't going to back to that same counselor I presume.


After we separate for a while, I believe she will be more open to listen to my issues and concerns.

You aren't trying to deal with the problem in an adult way: you are gambling on whether you can manipulate her emotions.

If you do not want to try to save your marriage, then get out of it without any games. If you do want to save your marriage, then go to counseling by yourself to learn how to listen and talk and negotiate honestly.

[JustWendy]

Tonya –

Even without knowing where you really fall on the TG spectrum, I’m guessing you’ve gotten the best advice from the GGs who’ve responded – especially Reine.

If you are TS, then asking you to put this aside and live up to your responsibilities as a husband and father is not going to work. If you are a woman, then there are some things you just can’t be, regardless of how good and responsible a person you are. If you are not TS, but you are a TG person who enjoys expressing her feminine feelings in both appearance and manner, you may be able to suppress this for some period of time but not forever. I believe it is possible to accept and work with limits if your desires to maintain a role as a resident father and husband are equally as strong. But this requires being totally honest with your wife and she would have to be comfortable remaining in a marriage with a transgendered spouse.

Wendy

[TonyaV]

Tonya –

Even without knowing where you really fall on the TG spectrum, I’m guessing you’ve gotten the best advice from the GGs who’ve responded – especially Reine.

If you are TS, then asking you to put this aside and live up to your responsibilities as a husband and father is not going to work. If you are a woman, then there are some things you just can’t be, regardless of how good and responsible a person you are. If you are not TS, but you are a TG person who enjoys expressing her feminine feelings in both appearance and manner, you may be able to suppress this for some period of time but not forever. I believe it is possible to accept and work with limits if your desires to maintain a role as a resident father and husband are equally as strong. But this requires being totally honest with your wife and she would have to be comfortable remaining in a marriage with a transgendered spouse.

Wendy

First of, I should say, I am learning so much about myself through this thread - I want to again thank everyone who is taking the time to help me sort things out. I owe you a great deal. I feel you're my family, my closest friends.

Wendy, I think you've gotten my situation described pretty close to how I actually feel. There are times when I wish I were a girl, other times I feel/imagine that I am. But then there are times when these feelings are hardly present. It also appears that I am very often having to work at being manly. As a result, I am actually confused and not sure what to "label" myself. When I used to dress often, I considered myself CD. Only recently since Tonya has been suppressed that I am feeling this way.

Based how I am feeling right now, if I can go back 25-30 years, things would definitely be different. But I cant, and along the way, I have made many important decisions in my life that involve others with no fault of their own - marriage, loving wife, and kids (especially the kids). I feel that if I come out to them, I'll be letting all of them down, and I can't do that. Unless somehow I can figure out a way for my wife to compromise and accept me with all my colors, I don't see how I can stay with her, if what I am feeling turns out to be more serious than CDing. If it's only CDing, I may very well "take it out of my system" whenever I am out of town, keep it a secret (I will behave of course), no one knows, no one gets hurt. Besides, I don't call and get her approval if I want to put on a tie or not, so why do I need it to wear a skirt? If it turns out I belong in the TG or TS side of the spectrum, then, knowing for sure she will not want to be part of it, I may just break up, and deal with the matter later while on my own, without dragging her along.

So, we the help of ya'll wonderful caring people, I am trying to figure out where I fit on the spectrum. I think I have to establish this first. Next week, I am traveling the entire week on business - Pittsburgh PA, Albany NY, Nashville TN. I am already very excited about it. I took a girly bath yesterday, shaved the two hairs on my chest, and only trimmed my underarms and legs so I don't draw her attention. I will be having Tonya time and venturing out while out of town. I will re-evaluate my feelings and report at the end of my trip.

Please keep the comments and critiques coming. No need to hold back.

Love,
Tonya

[sometimes_miss]

Your wife's needs should be priority #1 IMO, dressing, no matter how strong are desires are should be placed on hold when another humans well being is at stake. If I sound rough I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound mean. Hugs & Best Wishes.

See, I think this is one of the reasons men die earlier than women. We're brought up to believe that other's needs and desires must always be place before our own, no matter what. And that will eat away at you mentally, and often, physically as well.
Women are told that they can 'have it all'. Often, at the expense of what their husbands want. Men are told by women that we already 'have it all', which is defined as working for our entire lives to support them and their kids. I wonder why they get to define what we want, but it's politically incorrect the other way around. Wait...I forgot...it's because they say that's the way it's supposed to be.

[Aloha Jayne]

I'm at the same place in my marriage right now also Tonya. It is a very tuff decision to make. Be true to the one who loves you, or be true to yourself. There are no good answers, only compromises. Good luck.

[TonyaV]

You and me both, girlfriend!

[BRANDYJ]

See, I think this is one of the reasons men die earlier than women. We're brought up to believe that other's needs and desires must always be place before our own, no matter what. And that will eat away at you mentally, and often, physically as well.
Women are told that they can 'have it all'. Often, at the expense of what their husbands want. Men are told by women that we already 'have it all', which is defined as working for our entire lives to support them and their kids. I wonder why they get to define what we want, but it's politically incorrect the other way around. Wait...I forgot...it's because they say that's the way it's supposed to be.

I think your premise is very wrong. Throughout the ages, until the start of the mid 60's, men treated women almost as if they were second rate citizens. Men ruled and treat women as not much more than sex objects, housekeepers. It's been a few decades since men were the sole bread winner. More women in the work force, yet they are still expected to raise and take care of the children clean house, do the family shopping, laundry, etc. Secondly. Many men, me included are much happier when we do put the needs and wants of our partner ahead of our own; Or at least equal. You said, "working for our entire lives to support them and their kids."
Did you forget it's their kids too? And to support them is to care for them and to love them. It makes life worth living.
Many women have given up educational opportunities, careers, and more to take care of their husband's and children's needs; More so than men have for the woman they love. And in your statement that women say men have it all is a contradiction to what many CD's say. They say women have it all in choice of clothes, style etc. So wrong again, at least by the jealous whining CD's that act like babies because they can't wear a dress and makeup in public. Men and women BOTH have choices, they are usually chosen based on biological and emotional difference between the sexes. I for one like the differences between men and women and would not have it any other way.
Women don't demand or tell us what we are, Let alone what we want That's the way it is because it's supposed to be. So I agree with ArleneRaqual that you quoted. To make someone else a priority is part of what love and caring is all about. And guess what? If she loves you as much, she will make you a priority in her life too. Give 100% of yourself and get back 110% in return. That's love.

Studies found that married men live longer than single men. So it's only the single men that die sooner. Women comfort, love and care their husbands; That's why married men live longer. Being alone and selfish will eat away at you mentally, and often, physically as well. Oh, married women live longer too. I like that equality.

[TonyaV]

I think your premise is very wrong. Throughout the ages, until the start of the mid 60's, men treated women almost as if they were second rate citizens. Men ruled and treat women as not much more than sex objects, housekeepers. It's been a few decades since men were the sole bread winner. More women in the work force, yet they are still expected to raise and take care of the children clean house, do the family shopping, laundry, etc. Secondly. Many men, me included are much happier when we do put the needs and wants of our partner ahead of our own; Or at least equal. You said, "working for our entire lives to support them and their kids."
Did you forget it's their kids too? And to support them is to care for them and to love them. It makes life worth living.
Many women have given up educational opportunities, careers, and more to take care of their husband's and children's needs; More so than men have for the woman they love. And in your statement that women say men have it all is a contradiction to what many CD's say. They say women have it all in choice of clothes, style etc. So wrong again, at least by the jealous whining CD's that act like babies because they can't wear a dress and makeup in public. Men and women BOTH have choices, they are usually chosen based on biological and emotional difference between the sexes. I for one like the differences between men and women and would not have it any other way.
Women don't demand or tell us what we are, Let alone what we want That's the way it is because it's supposed to be. So I agree with ArleneRaqual that you quoted. To make someone else a priority is part of what love and caring is all about. And guess what? If she loves you as much, she will make you a priority in her life too. Give 100% of yourself and get back 110% in return. That's love.

Studies found that married men live longer than single men. So it's only the single men that die sooner. Women comfort, love and care their husbands; That's why married men live longer. Being alone and selfish will eat away at you mentally, and often, physically as well. Oh, married women live longer too. I like that equality.

Brandy - thanks for your interest in my story. If you don't mind, I would like to stay focused on the original subject. Having said that, let me briefly address Lexi's post. I don't agree with her premise either, but, after reading her life story on another thread (which I can relate to, in a big way), I totally respect her opinion and, believe me, I understand where she's coming from. That's why I did not reply to her post.

Hugs,
Tonya