You are NOT a CDer...

[Wildaboutheels]

unless you __________________________________________________ ___?

So much confusion and disagreement here at times. Perfectly understandable. Why wouldn't there be when people have such a wide vairiety of opinions on WHAT makes someone a CDer. Is a woman who buys and wears only men's running shoes a CDer? Or a woman who buys and wears men's flannel shirts a CDer? What if she never wears them out in public? Make any difference?

If a man wears ONLY women's underwear, is he a CDer. OR will many here claim that given enough time, he will move on to other stuff? Because "we always do".

There are GGs here who simply won't accept the FACT that some men might just wear women's underwear because they find it more comfortable. You know - with our outdoor plumbing and all... not to mention probably double or triple the cut AND fabric choices that men have. I am ONLY speaking of comfort here. BUT... what IF a guy happens to like lace or wild colors or... Does that make him feminine?
Or would wearing women's underwear be OK for a man as long as it has no lace, ruffles or has pink in it anywhere. And/or covers his entire butt cheeks?

There is at least one GG who thinks INTENT figures into this equation. I would tend to agree... for the most part.

So when do YOU think someone crosses over? Or do you make a distinction at all?

[Amanda_P]

My first wife bought me some male silk underwear in differant colors thinking that would stop me from wearing hers.

[stephNE]

......unless you think you are a CD'er.
If one guy wears panties for comfort, and thinks he is not a CDer, OK, and if another guy only wears panties, and think he IS a CDer, then thats OK too.

[Beverley Sims]

You are not a CDer if you wear her raincoat just to keep you from getting yourself wet.
No that does not compute with me......

[Tina B.]

There is n o intent in the words cross dresser, it's an act not an intent, so yes if I women wears a man's shirt, she is cross dressing, and no matter the trim If I guy wears womens underwear he is cross dressing at least in part. I think the argument is, is he Transgender, not is he a cross dresser.

[Kate Simmons]

It really depends on who's definition you are going by. If you are always just yourself and don't give a rat's pitudie, the whole issue is moot anyway. I'd rather spend my time enjoying it than trying to figure out the semantics. ;):battingeyelashes::)

[Deedee Skyblue]

Why do we have to have definitions? True crossdressers, real crossdressers, not a crossdresser... how about - are you comfortable with yourself? If you wear women's clothing, do you enjoy it?

[kimdl93]

You're a CDr if you 'want' to wear women's clothes.

[Wildaboutheels]

I'm sure all the folks who keep claiming that women are CDing when they wear pants and other "men's stuff" will be along sooner or later..........................................?

And complain that Society is unfair to men because women can CD and they can't...

Clothes are just clothes and the REASON anyone wears anything is entirely irrelevant is it not? Male, Female, TG, TS...

ALL Humans regardless of however they themselves OR society might LABEL them.

Or maybe there ARE laws that would prohibit a man from wearing a skirt or dress in public?

[Taylor186]

And a corollary to Kim's excellent response: You are not crossdressing or crossdressed when naked, but you can still be a crossdresser.

[edit] And I agree with Dawn's post below: intent is everything.

[Dawn cd]

If a guy wear a women's raincoat to keep dry, he's not a crossdresser, but if he wears it because he wants to feel/look like a woman, he is a crossdresser. Contrary to what Tina says, it's ALL in the intent. Crossdressers fit a wide spectrum of transgender behavior. If he wears dresses, or just hosiery, or just jewelry or women's scent AS A FORM OF FEMALE EXPRESSION he is a crossdresser.

[Ressie]

Any pattern of wearing clothes of the opposite sex. if I don a woman's t-shirt once a year that's enough to qualify. What I want to know is the point where CDing becomes female impersonation. Can't really speak for the GGs that wear men's clothes.

[Foxglove]

If a guy wear a women's raincoat to keep dry, he's not a crossdresser, but if he wears it because he wants to feel/look like a woman, he is a crossdresser. Contrary to what Tina says, it's ALL in the intent.

Here's a story that I'm pretty sure is true: a guy I once knew was a teacher assistant in a public school and had a room on the top floor of the school. One morning a maid spotted him heading for the loo wearing nothing but his girlfriend's fur coat.

Was he crossdressed? I'd say yes. Did that make him a crossdresser? I don't think so. I never heard anything him about ever wearing women's clothing on any other occasion.

What I'm saying is, if you're wearing something that's generally assigned to the opposite sex, you're crossdressed. Whether you're a crossdresser or not is where the question of intent comes in. If you throw on a fur coat simply because it's the handiest thing, you're not a crossdresser. But if you do that kind of thing regularly because you like it, you are.

Or say a woman puts on one of her guy's shirts when she gets out of the shower. She's crossdressed. But if she's doing it only because it's handy, she's not a crossdresser.

But a more difficult one perhaps: suppose someone like me with small feet wears women's runners because it's easy to find them in women's sizes and impossible in men's? It's purely a practical question, and he gets no excitement out of it. Would we say he's not a crossdresser for that reason? Or does the fact that he does it over the long-term make him a crossdresser?

Or what if it's panties, and he swears he doesn't get a charge out of it, he only wears them because he likes the fit?

[Wildaboutheels]

So just where are the GGs when you need them? Probably most are STILL shopping? It's easy to imagine that at least SOME of them might object to certain "womanly" things worn by a man "a bit more" than others.

ANYone who will not recognise/ADMIT that some men or women will wear any article of clothing [regardless of where in the store in came from or what sex it might be inted for] simply for comfort or fit is simply delusional. There are folks who don't worry needlessly about what other folks think.

Of course I guess some might think that all men are shaped like men and all women are shaped like women and that's the end of the matter. Clothes made for Xs simply will not fit Y people or vice versa. WRONG!

The proof is as near as your local thrift store with dozens of brands.

[Shananigans]

I think "crossdressers" (by my own definition and logic) have the intentions of wanting to look like the opposite sex. If for some reason you find thongs incredibly comfortable...more power to you. But, I'd riddle you this...would you wear "male thongs." There are tons of styles of male underwear...you can pretty much buy them in any style that you would find for a female. Would you buy the "male underwear," if it were the same style? Or, is it important to you that it is specifically women's underwear? If you go with the latter, I think you might want to think about the deeper meaning of why you are wearing the underwear. It doesn't mean it has to have anything to do with your feelings about gender...it might just mean you like wearing women's underwear. But, there's obviously something going on there as to why it *needs* to be women's underwear. Likewise, you may find that you really just like wearing skirts...you aren't trying to present as a woman...but, you just really like skirts. Would you be willing to buy the "male version" of the skirt, or is it important for some reason that it is from the women's department? I think when things are left off with saying that crossdressing has everything to do with intent/it's the action of wanting to present as the opposite sex, it leaves interpretation a little off for people who "under dress." But, IMO, it's still pretty much the same line of thinking...only narrowed down to particular items. A CD that only wears high heels may say, "Well, I am obviously just wearing high heels...I'm not presenting as a female!" Well...I'd say take it back to intention...if Marc Jacobs came out tomorrow with a Manheel, would you wear it? Or, does it really just need to be women's high heels? When you get down to that level of honesty with yourself, I think you can find your answer. Fashion changes all of the time...but, if you purposefully aren't changing with the fashion and it is still very important to you to have the *female* version of things...there's probably a reason for it that may be a little deeper than just style preferences. But, yeah, I had the unfortunate experience of male strippers in thongs...I don't think they were CDs. Likewise, when I see a woman in slacks and a blazer, I don't think "crossdresser." However...if the male stripper HAD to have the female-version of the thong for some arbitrary reason, and if the woman HAD to go to the male department for the slacks/blazer...I'd probably wonder WHY it was so important that it had to be clothes specifically for the opposite sex...and, I'd probably think that he/she was a CD.

[DebbieL]

Cross-dressers is probably the widest definition of transgender behavior. Many CDs start out wearing just a few items, because they feel good, but they also feel shame and guilt about it because they are wearing girls clothes or women's clothes. They might just be wearing panties and everything else is male, but they go through the same emotional issues that a cross-dresser who likes to wear dresses experiences.

You could break cross-dressers into further subgroups such as:
Fetish dressers - people who wear one or two items of clothing - primarily for sexual pleasure.
Comfort Dressers - people who wear one or two items of clothing - primarily for comfort reasons.
Self-Image dressers - people who wear enough to satisfy their own image - for example, a dress but no wig or shoes.
Feminine Image dressers - people who want to create a totally feminine appearance - wear all of the clothes, with or without make-up.
Transgender dressers - people who want to be perceived as the opposite sex - for a short or long period of time.
Transsexual dressers - people who want to BE the opposite sex - whether they have transitioned or not.

If the product was located in the department labeled for one gender, and the opposite gender purchases it and wears it, then they are cross-dressing.
Yes that DOES include the woman who wears men's shoes because they are more comfortable, or men's shirts because they like the loose fit.

Is a woman who wears loose baggy pants and a baggy shirts a cross-dresser? Maybe so.

I think that the ambiguity of women's clothing, which allows women to dress like men, combined with the gender restrictions on men, may actually aggrevate the shame, guilt, and self-destructive behaviors of cross-dressers and transgenders.

How many CDs in this group have shared that their wife does not fully accept their cross dressing, and yet their wives rarely if ever wear skirts, heels, hose, or very feminine blouses. I might even go so far as to say that the majority of women are cross-dressers and expect to be accepted as women even when they are cross-dressing, while they cannot accept that their husband or boyfriend wants to dress in more feminine clothing.

Back in 1968, my school held a vote to let women wear pants in the winter. To get the boys to vote in favor, the girls proposed that the boys could wear shorts in the warmer spring and autumn months. Winter came, and the girls ditched their skirts and wore pants, jeans, even baggy pants, all winter long. Then spring came, and the girls stayed in their pants. Meanwhile, the few boys who dared to wear shorts were severely beaten, dragged over the asphalt pavement in the playground, until their chests, thighs, and legs looked like hamburger. I felt so betrayed, so deceived, so cheated. I even suggested that we have another vote, since the terms of the deal had not been honored. The perpetrators were actually the gym teachers, who often directed the attacks, telling the jocks who to attack, how, and how severely.

My personal rebellion was to turn to drugs, booze, and rock music. I felt that there was no law, that the law was just being used to protect the interests of one group while trampling the interests of others. I joined the anti-war movement, engaged in peace protests, sit-ins, and any other chance to defy the authority that had tried to brutally beat me into submission. I also stood up for the minority kids being bused into our school, standing up and protesting attempts to end the busing, We made signs saying "They are our friends, let them stay" - which made the national news.

Bottom line, if your clothing is traditionally worn by the other gender, then you are a cross-dresser, and this applies to women who wear pants as well!

[Amy A]

I'm not sure that I really care all that much. If someone defines themselves as a crossdresser, I'm not about to get out the check list and start cross-referencing.

I also don't think that women who wear trousers/jeans etc are crossdressing, as they aren't wearing clothes manufactured for men. When you see how tight some women's jeans are nowadays, there's no way they were ever designed for men to fit into!

[deebra]

The solution is panties need to be made with a little more crotch room and men need to start growing breasts, then the CD term would go away. #@$%^&*

[ReineD]

There are GGs here who simply won't accept the FACT that some men might just wear women's underwear because they find it more comfortable. You know - with our outdoor plumbing and all... not to mention probably double or triple the cut AND fabric choices that men have. I am ONLY speaking of comfort here. BUT... what IF a guy happens to like lace or wild colors or... Does that make him feminine?


Don't know which GGs you refer to, but I for one do not believe that wearing just panties makes someone a CDer. I would classify the wearing of just panties under "kink". If it stays there for the rest of his life, then he's just a kinky guy. If it progresses to more, then he is likely a CDer. However, no one can say for sure because we don't know what motivates him. And truthfully, he may not even know it himself. Denial can be deep and everyone has different coping mechanisms.

Where's the cutoff line between kink and CD? Depends on how much time he spends thinking about it, and in what way he thinks about it. We can't say that just panties plus skirt does not equal CDer, whereas panties plus skirt plus top plus wig, does, and following this logic, panties plus skirt plus top plus wig plus makeup plus forms equals "trans" CD. lol Everyone has their own aesthetics, their own personal definition of what is feminine or what "crosses" that line. So yes, it does boil down to intent. Intent, plus the amount of time and energy devoted to this, even if there is no dressing but hours upon hours spent posting in this forum instead. :D

Guys who don't cross that line are not interested in hanging out in places like this.

[Dawn cd]

While it takes this tread in a slightly different direction, Reine asks an interesting question: Where's the cutoff line between kink and CD? I would say that kink [fetish] is rather a REASON for getting into CD. People have all sorts of reasons, and kink is one of them.

Underdressing might be kink and it might not be. Personally I believe that most underdressers represent an early stage of crossdressing. It's usually a closet stage. Many will remain there, but many others will blossom into full-blown crossdressers.

[GG7irish]

Being a GG hopefully i can post on here. I buy men's sweats for running, only reason being is they are cheaper than womens. I also know that fabric for women's clothes feels better on your skin then mens so why not put something nice on your skin. Whatever the reason or the intent if it feels right and makes you happy than it should be ok right?

Now my BF dresses and looks awesome as a female and is very happy and I love seeing the smile on Cassandra's face. So for me whatever the reason that he is dressed if it makes him happy that is all that matters.

[Wonderwho]

As there are two sides to every story, there are two sides to every male. I LOVE to be the take-charge guy for my wife....grab the snow shovel, clear the driveway and sidewalks, grab a hammer and build our houses, grab a torch and solder pipes, grab a wrench and fix her car, climb a ladder, lay concrete, plant shrubs and flowers where she wants them, , seed grass, mow on my tractor, wear men's rough-hewn clothing, construction boots, flannel shirts, ball caps.

i also love to sew, design, shop, buy, discourse, write/play music, wear nylons, dresses, soft leathers, high heels, erotic fem clothing, cook, clean house, dust, serve her.

I'm an excellent chef, can fly a plane, drive a back-hoe/bulldozer, champion a chopper...(helicopter)....all these and more.

And my wife likes to kiss my neck every morning, and my brow, and my cheeks, and bid me good morning...every morning...and offer to scratch my back with her long nails....EVERY MORNING! :) (I LIVE for those scratches!!!!)....and other stuff...

Because she loves BOTH sides of me...As I do.

NOW...I ask you...what could be better than this? :D

This is the wonderfull part of being a CDer. There is the soft silky world that makes me feel good and puts me in touch with the femm part of our relationship. There is the grease under the nails while working on the hotrod, the smell of sawdust in the shop, the feeling of compleation when a project that my wife wanted is compleated.
I have made some wonderfull things both while in femm and while working heavy construction, my clothes did not make the person I am.
Yes I wear all kinds of cloths at many different times,some womens some mens and sometimes both at the same time.
Does this make me a crossdressing crossdresser?

[Moxie]

As there are two sides to every story, there are two sides to every male. I LOVE to be the take-charge guy for my wife....grab the snow shovel, clear the driveway and sidewalks, grab a hammer and build our houses, grab a torch and solder pipes, grab a wrench and fix her car, climb a ladder, lay concrete, plant shrubs and flowers where she wants them, , seed grass, mow on my tractor, wear men's rough-hewn clothing, construction boots, flannel shirts, ball caps.

i also love to sew, design, shop, buy, discourse, write/play music, wear nylons, dresses, soft leathers, high heels, erotic fem clothing, cook, clean house, dust, serve her.

I'm an excellent chef, can fly a plane, drive a back-hoe/bulldozer, champion a chopper...(helicopter)....all these and more.

And my wife likes to kiss my neck every morning, and my brow, and my cheeks, and bid me good morning...every
morning...and offer to scratch my back with her long nails....EVERY MORNING! :) (I LIVE for those scratches!!!!)....and other stuff...

Because she loves BOTH sides of me...As I do.

NOW...I ask you...what could be better than this? :D

I'm with Snow...if my H were like you as a man, I could overlook him dressing as a polar bear if it tickled his fancy!! :)

[Jamie001]

I think "crossdressers" (by my own definition and logic) have the intentions of wanting to look like the opposite sex. If for some reason you find thongs incredibly comfortable...more power to you. But, I'd riddle you this...would you wear "male thongs." There are tons of styles of male underwear...you can pretty much buy them in any style that you would find for a female. Would you buy the "male underwear," if it were the same style? Or, is it important to you that it is specifically women's underwear? If you go with the latter, I think you might want to think about the deeper meaning of why you are wearing the underwear. It doesn't mean it has to have anything to do with your feelings about gender...it might just mean you like wearing women's underwear. But, there's obviously something going on there as to why it *needs* to be women's underwear. Likewise, you may find that you really just like wearing skirts...you aren't trying to present as a woman...but, you just really like skirts. Would you be willing to buy the "male version" of the skirt, or is it important for some reason that it is from the women's department? I think when things are left off with saying that crossdressing has everything to do with intent/it's the action of wanting to present as the opposite sex, it leaves interpretation a little off for people who "under dress." But, IMO, it's still pretty much the same line of thinking...only narrowed down to particular items. A CD that only wears high heels may say, "Well, I am obviously just wearing high heels...I'm not presenting as a female!" Well...I'd say take it back to intention...if Marc Jacobs came out tomorrow with a Manheel, would you wear it? Or, does it really just need to be women's high heels? When you get down to that level of honesty with yourself, I think you can find your answer. Fashion changes all of the time...but, if you purposefully aren't changing with the fashion and it is still very important to you to have the *female* version of things...there's probably a reason for it that may be a little deeper than just style preferences. But, yeah, I had the unfortunate experience of male strippers in thongs...I don't think they were CDs. Likewise, when I see a woman in slacks and a blazer, I don't think "crossdresser." However...if the male stripper HAD to have the female-version of the thong for some arbitrary reason, and if the woman HAD to go to the male department for the slacks/blazer...I'd probably wonder WHY it was so important that it had to be clothes specifically for the opposite sex...and, I'd probably think that he/she was a CD.

If a high-heel for males existed in the men's department, I most likely wouldn't buy it because it would be very masculinized. In other words, it would be large, clunky, and would most likely be ugly. Just like men's skirts - they are ugly and don't have the delicateness of a woman's skirt. This is the problem!! If they would just make the same style women's skirts and woman's heels in larger sizes and sizes more tailored to the male body I would purchase these items. The problem is that the designers feel that instead of simply changing the size and cut to fit the male body, they must masculinize it and make it drab, boring, and masculine looking.

[Laura28]

I liked your response Kim and couldnt agree more. If you like wearing women's clothing your a crossdresser plain and simple.

[lowxr]

Regardless of gender, if you wear mens clothes you wear mens clothes, if you wear womens clothes you wear womens clothes, EVERYTHING else is just a LABEL !!!

[noeleena]

Hi,

Some one said if a woman wears trousers or pants is a crossdresser. how come . it does not stack up. go back to 1400 to 1700 what did women wear & what did men wear, whos the crossdresser here. when both men & women are wearing dress's. each designed for the individual seperated from each other,

Please do your home work. the answer is nether,

If i design make & sew a pare of pants trousers or slacks am i a crossdresser, if i make them to fit my body shape & size to suit me. if the cut is female & is for a woman .

& again i make my tops or blouse's to fit my body fit size & shape that fit my breasts, & then put a guys shirt on because thats handy to me does that make me a crossdresser. again no . i can wear mens or womens clothes & i can never be a crossdresser ever, wether i use make up or not. or dressed to the nines, ether way. you figger that one out or you should be able to,

...noeleena...

[Asche]

I think "crossdressers" (by my own definition and logic) have the intentions of wanting to look like the opposite sex. ... Likewise, you may find that you really just like wearing skirts...you aren't trying to present as a woman...but, you just really like skirts. Would you be willing to buy the "male version" of the skirt, or is it important for some reason that it is from the women's department?
Well, I guess that answers my perennial question of whether I am truly a CD.

In the negative.

I don't try to look like a woman.

Of course, if you dig deeper, it gets a bit more complicated.

The main reason I don't try to look like a woman is that I couldn't pass for anything but male in a coal mine in a blackout, and I hate doing a half-assed job of something.

I don't buy skirts from either the men's department or the women's department (I make them instead), because the skirts from the women's department don't fit right and the few "man skirts" that are out there are so busy proving their manhood that they've left the joy out. If a skirt (or dress) don't make you want to sing "I feel pretty," what's the point?

[Asche]

If a high-heel for males existed in the men's department, I most likely wouldn't buy it because it would be very masculinized. In other words, it would be large, clunky, and would most likely be ugly.
I'm not into high heels, but I'd consider buying flats or maybe Mary Janes if I could get cute ones in sizes that would fit me. From what I've been told, I'd need a size 15 or larger in women's sizes, and nobody sells anything interesting in those sizes.

I've run into this problem when buying dance shoes (for contra and international folk dancing.) Dance stores have dance shoes, but not large enough for me. (I'd also need more padding, but that's another story.)

Tights are a similar story. Men's tights are only available in black, and mostly not big enough.

[Wildaboutheels]

Ok, fashion experts, riddle me this. Are hats an article of clothing? How about belts and socks? Lets just say someone has a yard sale and the kids are helping. Darn silly kids pile both their mom's and dads hats, socks and belts together in one big pile.

Iz there going to be a problem for you folks? Or with the merest of glances will you know the "right" ones from the "wrong" ones?

And let's say the silly teenaged son decides to remove the tags from all the jeans. Just to watch some people squirm. Of course YOU can tell just by LOOKING at the jeans if they are men's or womens?

[michelle64]

i sense hostility..she tossed all my ugly guy stuff ages ago..whatever she puts in the drawer on my side i wear....i do not wear her stuff but she has the habit of getting on my side of the closet..she made me a CD..i blame her and yes there are no GG's out there who would date a CD let alone marry one..i am not a CD..i am just on this site for sexual kicks (pervert)-will that cover the spectrum?..doubt it-continue on

ps: the only real CD is one who can pass--there its been said and i am surprised that has not come up yet...i will say in all seriousness facial hair, leg hair and a skirt really do not mesh..