Is MtF crossdressing a form of pornography?

[Frédérique]

What’s she on about now? Pornography is a strong word, but please bear with me...

Can MtF crossdressing be seen as a form of pornography? I think it already is seen that way by certain individuals, namely conformists and conservatives who think that an annulment of one’s sensibilities is GOOD for society. How else to explain the lack of sympathy, or the complete lack of understanding, or the censure, or the tacit turning-away from an otherwise natural human endeavor? At heart, MtF crossdressing MUST be a form of sexual deviancy, or at least that’s what the non-deviants say, usually in the form of a chorus, bleating down upon our community like a twisted mantra...

You can see it here, on this discussion forum, on any given day. I can’t even submit the word transvestite without incurring the wrath of those who insist I’m a sexual deviant. No, I must be making a willful declaration that I am gay, and, therefore, I am a sexual deviant in the eyes of those who look down upon such people. Never mind the facts, if I trans-vest in any way, I am guilty by association. I can forgive such indiscretions because I know they originate in bigoted minds that pass along antiquated concepts, but pardon me for feeling...disappointed...at their inclusion on this particular site. It leads me to believe, or theorize, that MtF crossdressing, i.e. transvestism, must be akin to pornography in the hearts and minds of those who lay their eyes (and prejudices) upon it. They cannot help but think so, because society is steering them to this foregone conclusion – MtF crossdressing is WRONG, always has been and always will be, and, look: I read this in an authorized book, or I heard this on a sanctioned TV show the other night...

Someone in the vast community outside our own had to decide what pornography is, and I believe any form of sexual deviancy comes under this imaginary umbrella. Pornography, by definition, can theoretically include ANYTHING that causes sexual thought – it is not confined to printed or visual material meant to elicit strong sexual (and emotional) reactions. At least that’s how I understand it, and I think many would agree with me – consider Jessie Helms or Robert Smith, for example. Since many male-to-female crossdressers dress-up purely for the sexual thrill, crossdressing may be unknowingly allied with other, more obvious, traditional examples of pornography. If certain types of female clothing get you from point A to point B in sexual terms, it can safely be stated that the act of crossdressing has caused sexual thought, or at least enhanced sexual thoughts that were already in place. Since this commonplace sub-variation of MtF CD’ing “jibes” with public perception, thanks to reinforcement in the media, you can see how MtF crossdressing has become grafted onto the family tree of human deviancy...

Tell me, why all this emphasis on the question “Are you gay” around here, if you, a male by birth, dress against your gender? This question is somewhat automatic. Your crossdressing may be benign in the extreme, innocent as the snowflake it emulates, but, to the unenlightened, you MUST be practicing sexual deviancy. This is a very unfortunate turn of events, my friends. Over the years I’ve heard many high profile gay individuals declare, with exasperation, that heterosexuals assume gays are having sex ALL the time. Of course, gay males are just like everybody else in terms of sexual frequency, but this stigma of deviancy, of doing something decidedly un-natural (in the minds of conformists), cannot be overcome. A change of attitude about same-sex relationships is long overdue, and compassionate inroads have been initiated, but its tough going. Apparently the idea of a male who willfully dresses as a female, for whatever reason, is just TOO difficult to swallow, and it cannot be seen in any other light. Even some MtF crossdressers find it hard to justify “giving in” to the urge to dress, and in many cases one’s crossdressing winds up with the other pornography – in a stash at the back of the closet...

I admit it – I’m a deviant, and I like deviant things. MtF crossdressing is definitely a deviant pleasure for this boy (I mean girl), even though I derive no sexual gratification from it. I’ve said this many times before, but I dress to suppress sexual thought – my male state is HIGHLY pornographic, while Freddy is the antithesis of all that. The fact that I keep crossdressing, come what may, is evidence that I need a buffer, or a modifier, or a place away from being male – the latter can be an obnoxiously pornographic being that needs to be satisfied. Sexual thought takes over, and that’s that, whereas I can find peace at my crossdressing oasis. To this end, I find it highly confusing that my therapeutic use of crossdressing to suppress male urges is seen as sexual deviancy by nearly everyone. Without thinking, all MtF crossdressers are thrown in with other sexual deviants, and a sign that says “CAUTION: PORNOGRAPHY!” is affixed to the box we’re in to warn anyone impressionable. The message is: don’t even think about leaving the path that was created for your benefit. It’s sad, but anything that does not fit the accepted models of M of F is frowned upon, no matter how GOOD it might be for the individual. I can’t even tell people I’m a crossdresser, for crying out loud, because they will immediately jump from crossdresser to GAY to queer to sexual deviant, and on to the wonderful world of “It must be pornographic.” It may be infinitely better to say, “I’m a thrill seeker,” and leave it at that...

My point with all this is to examine why all alternative, queer, or deviant human characteristics are shunted to the edge of human awareness without much forethought - human behavioral history seems to be a battlefield between those who feel and DO, and those who can’t even feel something worth doing, whatever it is. However, if humans are not governed, or encouraged, or otherwise inspired by the tides of sexual thought, I fail to see what else will get me out of bed in the morning. Pornography exists to fill a need, and MtF crossdressing is the (relatively innocent) girl next door, always under undue suspicion...

[Launa]

Is MtF crossdressing a form of pornography?

I don't think its Crossdressing is porn per se' even though there is some sexual gratification that comes along with it. Unfortunately society doesn't understand crossdressing the same way they understand gay people, straight people and people with other sexual fetishes. We seem to fall into that category with the crepes in the world. I have heard people say it before.
You don't have to look very far and you'll see all sorts of CD porn out there so I think people can think of us as dirty men. After all how many CD'ers have you ever come face to face with in public and then struck up a conversation with them? We are so, so underground and invisible that its not funny.
A good part of society will always think we are deviants because they have never meet clean CD'ers in the world so they think were all the same as whats seen on the internet.

You can even just click the logo at the top of our page right here on this site then do a couple more clicks and you have lots of nasty porn. Chicks with Dicks etc...

There are not a lot of sites like this one that are clean so we'll always be seen as perverts unless we can start to change peoples' minds.

[LadyPilot]

There was a time when I questioned my sexuality, but, I never thought of what I was doing would be some sort of porn. I am 100% hetro and my wife loves me for it. Todays world has no understanding about CD's or why and probably is in no position to want to understand. Yep, when I was younger there was the "sexual" feelings but it was because it felt so good and I loved making my body feel good, all by myself, nobody else involved. I would be lying if I said there is no sexual feelings after a night on the town with my wife because there is and our intamcy is amazing. It has been said many time that "you are not hurting anybody", this is true and should be the main objective. "I'm a thrill seeker"

[drushin703]

F. I have heard crossdressing defined as public masturbation occasionally driven by sexual fantasies. I certaintly don't see how public it is ( I haven't seen
another crossdresser on my street in god-knows-how-long) but I like the idea of desire, any desire being driven by fantasy. A lot of us, when we initially
started dressing, didn't imagine ourselfs as females but were driven by the real world fantasy of dressing like one. When I first saw a girdle hanging
on the clothes line in my mothers basement, I couldn't get that image out of my mind. And yet still today when I see a girdle or a picture of a girdle,
or catch the magical scent of that rubber-nylon mix or see a woman wearing a close fitting dress and imagine her wearing a girdle or (should I continue?)
my goodness, have a girdle in my presence, I am made all the more comfortable and content.

As for pornography. It should be henceforth defined as that which does dirt to sex. I guess the larger question should be, is crossdressing strickly a
sexual act? Well for me, dana, single, no girlfriend, no wife, alone most saturday nights with a room full of girdles and bras, HELL YEAH it is.
Nothing pornographic here, just good old fashioned crossdressing......dana

[kimdl93]

Pornography is such a nebulous concept. The underlying idea is that the content is without artistic merit and is presented explicitly to satisfy the consumer's purient interests/intent. National Geographic magazines certainly featured images of exposed bodies that might have been used by some to satisfy the individuals purient interests, but clearly the majority of readers sought the magazine for both the information and the high quality photography - the artistic merit.

One might say the same about cross dressing. Certainly there are a number of CDers who dress explicitly for the eroticism they associate with wearing women's clothing. But the fact that some individuals might be so inclined does not make CDing itself pornography. There are others who practice CDing as an avocation approaching an artistic expression and others who simply find that wearing women's clothing brings their outward appearance into harmony with their inner self.

In the end, what constitutes pornography is largely in the eye of the beholder. Being "deviant" doesn't imply pornographic. A 7' tall basketball player is deviant, as is a mathematical savant. Some individuals may view their own CDing as a sexual act and others may view the sexualized form of CDing as being deviant. People will think what they think
.

[docrobbysherry]

"Is MtF crossdressing a form of pornography?"

Only if u do it well, Freddie.

[Celeste]

I think not,and for me it never was.I have always separated sexual identity and sexual desire into different categories,so crossdressing doesn't equal any form of deviance or porn for me.I honestly wonder about people who jump to conclusions about this and really feel sorry for them and their own sexual insecurities.Its just not a giant leap anymore to live and let live,accepting everyone, irregardless of how they present.

I think It's what people have learned in childhood that holds them back from seeing crossdressing as acceptable,they feel it's a challenge to their idea of sexuality and what they hold to be true. Cding should not be labeled deviant nor challenge anyone's idea of heterosexuality and shouldn't automatically equate sex to them, so the nature of our post today can go a long way toward changing all that in the future..I'd like to remain confident and optimistic regarding peoples preconceived conceptions when looking to the future.

[Shananigans]

Well, first, I just have to bring up Rule 34...

But, next, I could see it being very frustrating that crossdressing is seen as a sexual thing. But, honestly, there's nothing wrong with sex...it's kind of natural. If someone feels sexy and comfortable dressed a certain way, why would it be so bad that the person has sex or masturbates while presenting in that manner? I just feel that on this forum, there's a huge slam on CDing being related to sex in any way...it's almost like people here tell other people that they aren't "legit enough" if they get aroused while they are crossdressing. I personally don't understand it. I understand an automatic assumption that CDing is somehow erotic to a person might be frustrating and rightfully offensive...but, I feel that there is also an underlying message that people who find sexual pleasure in CDing are somehow doing something wrong. And, really, I'm not entirely sure why that is... I think there are quite a number of people that probably crossdress and end up doing something sexual, but why is that so bad? And, if the person in question is acting alone in this sexual act (or with other consenting adults), how is that a deviancy? It probably isn't everyone's cup of tea...but, it's also not everyone's business. However, I really do see a trend that somehow CDing having to do with ANYTHING sexual is somehow bad, and the person in question is somehow "bad" or not "legit." People have sex...people masturbate...some people crossdress when they do it. On the other hand, some people do not have sex...some people do not masturbate...and, some people have no sexual urges while "crossdressing." Who cares/why is any of it a bad thing as long as you aren't hurting anyone else? It's offensive that there seems to be an association with crossdressing and sexual deviancy...but, I don't think that everyone who gets a sexual thrill from crossdressing is being deviant...and, I think that ignoring that crossdressing can be very sexual for some people just kind of does a disservice to some people in the community that have been told all of their lives that something is wrong with them, and then they are told by other crossdressers that it's REALLY wrong if there is any sort of sexual pleasure involved in it. Sex seems to be pervasive in a lot of aspects of our life...for people that enjoy crossdressing and enjoy sex, there is a strong likelihood that they might like crossdressing while having sex.

Also, I am pretty sure that some CDs are gay...I think there are some CDs that are gay on this forum, actually. I think instead of vehemently stating that most CDs aren't gay and that most are straight, it would be best just to tell people the truth...the truth is that CDs are straight, gay, bi, and pretty much anything in between. If someone calls you gay for being a CD, it COULD be that the person is just homophobic/transphobic/non-normophobic to begin with...or, the person just might honestly not know. But, I think when I see the soapbox pulled out that CDing has NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING GAY, it kind of makes people feel a little awkward about it when they meet a gay CD...it's kind of like, "OHHHHH...but, I thought you were all straight as an arrow!!!" Instead of adamantly denying anything "gay," I think it would be more helpful to just tell people that CDs are just people too...and, like most people, they come with many different preferences...some CDs prefer GGs are partners, and some do not.

[Marleena]

Nope it's not pornograhic unless one chooses to make it pornographic. I consider it an art form.:) No sense worrying if one thinks your gay and explanations don't work. Same goes for those that think it's a perversion or deviant behavior. That's THEIR problem.

[AllyCDTV]

When I first started my latest cycle of crossdressing almost 5 years ago, it was all about pornography. I discovered amateur adult tube sites and that got me on a campaign of posting over 50 video clips and hundreds of photos. The videos alone have racked up more than 3 million views. I also appeared in hundreds of adult cam broadcasts often winning the top broadcaster of the day. After about 4 years, it did run its course and I've retired from posting adult videos, pics and doing broadcasts, yet the erotic and sexual aspects of dressing are still important to me. I look back on it and I am grateful that I had a chance, at least in my own mind, to fill a fantasy of being a porn star.

Now that I am no longer doing porn, I am concentrating on being more conventional in my dressing but still dressing in a sexually attractive manner. The truth is, my biggest fan is me and I like to get off on the way I look.

[Barbara Ella]

My response has to echo Marleena. Crossdressing in and of itself is not pornography, just as having explicit sex with your wife or partner is not pornographic. What one chooses to do with it can make that activity pornographic in some definitions, but it is still not the crossdressing itself that is the pornographic element. It takes a person's active use in a manner often called non typical to bring it into that arena.

Barabara

[Wildaboutheels]

Of course it is, for many if not most male CDers [at least "in the beginning" as many here like to say] as PROVED beyond any shadow of a doubt by both this Forum and all the other [various reported] CDing Forums out there. Of course everyone will have their own definition of what consttutes pornography... but I am assuming you mean using various clothing items as a visual AID to achieve the big O. Many folks here admit to it and most claim to have outgrown it. I see no reson to doubt them. Others, [mostly those who started at 4 or 5 on up] claim that their CDing has never had any sexual connotations. I see no reason to doubt them either.

I could be wrong... but I seriously doubt that many men start their CDing with granny dresses and flats.

I wish I could say that ONLY uneducated people stereotype others based on the packaging. Sadly [IMO] there truly are few open minded people roaming the planet, although many claim to be.

[ReineD]

Freddy, the world is changing. Crossdressing and homosexuality might have been considered a perverted deviancy by most people a generation ago, but there are many people who can look past it now, and even support gay rights and cross-gender expression especially among the younger generation. It's true that many people outside this community still conflate sexual preference with gender identity, but they just need to be told how it really works, and then they'll understand.

I think that generally people feel uneasy with gender and sexual variance until they actually get to know someone who is gay or trans, at which time they are well able to look beyond their preconceived ideas and come to see that the person in front of them is decent .... as long as it is an arm's length relationship. Still, this is better than the way it was before.

My SO and I live in a small town in the Midwest. She goes out regularly (in the next town over) and has gotten to know many people who, after interacting with her at some length, know that she is not a genetic woman. They still chat and joke around, they are always happy to see her, and there really are no lynch mobs. :p

Your only deviance is a departure from the norm simply because few genetic men have a need to crossdress. You are not degenerate, immoral, or depraved. If you ever do decide to go out into the sunshine you will be treated mostly with respect especially by SAs, restaurant personnel, etc who will be thrilled to receive your patronage.

[Frédérique]

Nope it's not pornograhic unless one chooses to make it pornographic. I consider it an art form.

I agree, but, speaking as an artist, I can say (without reservation) that one person’s work of art is another person’s pornography – if someone is not aware of, privy to, or otherwise sensitive to “artistic merit,” they will be blind to our kind of crossdressing. Needless to say, they will also be deaf to any forthcoming explanation as to WHY we crossdress, since they’ve already said NO to any deviancy they may encounter. But, that’s OK – I need something to deviate from!


Your only deviance is a departure from the norm simply because few genetic men have a need to crossdress. You are not degenerate, immoral, or depraved. If you ever do decide to go out into the sunshine you will be treated mostly with respect especially by SAs, restaurant personnel, etc who will be thrilled to receive your patronage.

I also live in a small Midwestern town, I have gone out in the sunshine, and I know how the people feel about any male who dresses in women’s clothing. I can see it in their eyes, I can see it in their minds, and, although they may be “thrilled” to receive my patronage in these trying times, a person like me makes them very uncomfortable indeed. Since I’m not transgendered, and, it follows, I have no reasonable (or understandable) need to dress the way I do, I must be some kind of sexual deviant, a living, breathing denizen from the realm of pornography. Keep in mind there are LOTS of churches in this town, and crossdressers are not exactly welcomed in small-community religious circles, in fact I am a deviant simply because I don’t go to church. Beyond this, there is little knowledge of those alternative lifestyles that big-city residents may take for granted, but the people ARE friendly, as long as you look like one of them, i.e. M or F and not some combination of the two. In other words, there is no LGBT "presence" here, and that includes me...

[TeresaL]

Define pornography.
Just sayin'.

[inori]

I don't know about you but lately there are an increasing amount of wannabees dressing in female clothing only because they are looking for sexual encounter of all sorts.... sigh. What happen to the cds who strive to look good and improving our female form as hard as we can. Where are the sisters that we can share our joy and tear with when we go en femme learning about our other self? It's fine getting sexually arouse from cding, but for some reason all I saw were man diving into this "new" thing called CDing just because they wanna have sex with other people...

[Beverley Sims]

X Dressing can become sleazy if you look at the exhibitionists out there.
These are not really X Dressers.

[Krististeph]

Freddie, being that you are in the middle of the plains states, I can certainly see where the idea that anything to do with sex might be considered pornography.

It’s a word game though, as soon as you start stretching definitions, well…


Lack of sympathy in people comes from two, no, THREE places:

Lack of sympathy by thought, lack of sympathy by deed, no- wait, that’s heresy…

Sympathy:

Perhaps the biggest and least credited aspect of modern life is the increased complexity and exposure we have to other people and other ways. Many of us evidently cannot resolve the differences and work with them. Or simply might not try. Even then- the sheer amount of differing opinions is huge. How can you be sympathetic when you do not have the time to learn about something?

Because of the increased multiculturism we encounter today, I think we also have some backlash. My parents said they were okay with people being gay, but they did not want to hear about it. They grew up in the 30s & 40s… so it was a big step for them. But it takes a while to change. The backlash to multiculturism is tribalism, and we see that a lot today, more so than 20 years ago- politics, religion, social groups, heck, even brand names- companies trying to increase ‘brand awareness, lifestyle, and identity’…

Finally, with sympathy comes the fact that you might not have been right about something before… Hey, this guy in a dress is okay, but.. but … I used to say that it was not okay. Could I have been wrong? Moi? (best miss piggy voice). I see this in class ALL the time- not about CD of course, but many ideas in general.

Hell, even the DSM IV TR still calls gender dysphoria a ‘disorder’.

Fortunately, intellectual growth is what happens in schools, so there is a significant change that can occur there. And once you start to accept you may have been narrow minded about one thing, more can follow.

Is it any wonder college grads tend to be more accepting than H.S. dropouts? It takes effort and practice just like anything else.

Takes time to change… What is pornography to one, or in one place, is art or freedom to another or in another place.

The mind is still tribal- seeks identification with a group- in most cases. By definition- an outsider is not of the group. Outsiders can be of location, appearance, mindset, actions…

So in the rural plains states- if there is little exposure to the cosmopolitan world, anything different is immediately ‘outside’… And if this way of thinking has not caused problems for a group (say Midwest/plains farmers in general), why SHOULD they change?

But this does NOT make pornography anything that is sexually or different, except to the beholder. Blanket labels simply show an unwillingness or incapability to use the mind you were given. Blanket labels are an easy way out.



My point with all this is to examine why all alternative, queer, or deviant human characteristics are shunted to the edge of human awareness without much forethought - human behavioral history seems to be a battlefield between those who feel and DO, and those who can’t even feel something worth doing, whatever it is. However, if humans are not governed, or encouraged, or otherwise inspired by the tides of sexual thought, I fail to see what else will get me out of bed in the morning. Pornography exists to fill a need, and MtF crossdressing is the (relatively innocent) girl next door, always under undue suspicion...



Pornography:

Unless it involves children, animals, or unwilling participants, it is not pornography, it is a point of interest to many people.

But it will be called pornography by many others. And this simple blanket label is reinforced every time they think it…

[Stephanie47]

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

Justice Potter Stewart (Jacobellis v Ohio 378 U.S. 184 (1964)

Since the State of Washington legally has determined gender expression, as well as, sexual orientation is protected from discrimination, I guess cross dressing is not illegal, and, hence is not pornographic.

That being said, I suspect the depiction of explicit between a man and a woman, a woman and a woman, a man and a man may be pornographic. I suspect wearing any particular garment does not enter into the determination!

[kendra_gurl]

I am married and my wife and I have sex. Is this pornography? If we record it and view it privately is it pornography? If we allow you to view our recorded sex does it then become pornography?

Crossdressing in itself, even if it leads to a sexual act, can only be defined as pornography if and when it is witnessed by someone else of whom derives a sexual thought from witnessing it.

With that thought in mind any reasonable person could say that any one they see in public dressed in any manner which stimulitates a sexual though on behalf of that reasonable person is dressed in a pornographic way.

The general public at large only knows about crossdressing from all the sexually oriented media. When they see a crossdressed male and think of them as a sexual deviant, in their mind it may be considered pornographic.

But in thinking that way about seeing a crossdressed male dosen't that really make them the one with a form of deviants

[sissystephanie]

I am married and my wife and I have sex. Is this pornography? If we record it and view it privately is it pornography? If we allow you to view our recorded sex does it then become pornography?

Crossdressing in itself, even if it leads to a sexual act, can only be defined as pornography if and when it is witnessed by someone else of whom derives a sexual thought from witnessing it.

With that thought in mind any reasonable person could say that any one they see in public dressed in any manner which stimulitates a sexual though on behalf of that reasonable person is dressed in a pornographic way.

The general public at large only knows about crossdressing from all the sexually oriented media. When they see a crossdressed male and think of them as a sexual deviant, in their mind it may be considered pornographic.

But in thinking that way about seeing a crossdressed male dosen't that really make them the one with a form of deviants

The above is probably the best quote I have seen concerning crossdressing being pornography!! But there is one other point that needs to be made. It is only pornographic to YOU in you let it be!! I crossdress almost every day, sometimes totally and sometimes only uinderdressing!! And I go out in public dressed in whatever I have on! The point is, I crossdress to please myself, not the rest of the world! If some people think I am being pornographic, so be it! That is their priviledge! I could care less!

[Meghan]

Freddie,

Once again you've captured a thought in a way I had not previously considered. When I dress, it shuts down the sex parts of my brain while in a resting state. It is like an escape.

Thank you again,

Meghan

[Jenniferathome]

Can MtF crossdressing be seen as a form of pornography?

No. It can not. Next.

[Loni]

NO.
even thinking that dressing is or has anything to do with pornography is bad.

what you do behind closed doors might be, but dressing how you believe you should be is a good thing not a bad thing.

loni.


.

[NicoleScott]

Frederique, of all your thought-provoking threads, this one's the worst. But we still adore you.

[dallasmann]

It is for some. There's no one size fits all answer. It is sometimes a pornographic experience for me, whether it's my own CDing or another girl's. At other times, it has to do more with my gender identification than with just wanting to be turned on.

[mikiSJ]

Most MtF pornography does not include clothing so I would say that somewhat obviates your question.

If you were asking if the MtF girl walking down the street looking into storefronts is pornographic...no! She is simply being herself, just like the GG standing next to her admiring the same ridiculously priced , impossible to wear once year holiday dress.