Full time tranny

[Badtranny]

(note: I posted this as a response in another thread but somebody PM'd with a request that I move it to it's own thread)

I've been thinking lately about people who want to transition and there is something that is rarely ever talked about; The intestinal fortitude required to live through the first few years after transition. Only a fortunate few get to experience visible stealthiness and fewer still experience it right away. The process literally takes years and in the meantime you look like a, well, ...you look like a tranny. Most trans women will pass sporadically and some will NEVER pass. Real life isn't like Mrs Doubtfire where everyone is totally fooled by ridiculous looking drag. That outfit wouldn't pass if the ball was on fire. (sports analogy grunt grunt) Real life is having everybody look at you when you walk into a room, or tap their buddy on the shoulder as you walk past, or giggle when you drive up to get your latte at Fourbucks. This is every single day with no end in sight. Do you think you're gonna breeze though transition because everybody at the dance club is always raving about how good you look? Think again. Do you think a few procedures will turn you into a woman? Think again.

Apparently something about transition is perceived as romantic despite every T-girl who has done it saying it's tough. It is in fact the toughest thing you will ever do and it MAY be the most rewarding thing as well but let me tell you something, when you go full-time and change your name, it is ON like the break of dawn. How you look is how you look and there is no more hiding behind the "dude" when you just want a break from being a spectacle. You may one day be a full-time woman but before you get there you first have to endure being a full-time tranny. Those are the dues, and I don't see a way around paying 'em.

Transition is a trip and that first step is a real bitch.

[Michelle.M]

Wow, there's so much here I don't know where to begin.

OK, let me start here - we all know how society characterizes and stereotypes the transgender experience. We all know it, and we wring our hands in frustration and emphatically claim "Hey, that's not us! We're different than what the media and critics say we are!" and we implore others to get to know us as people, because when they do they'll see that we're just not so grotesque after all. Because the root of the problem isn't so much the stereotype depiction itself but peoples' tendencies to believe them, to believe what they want to believe, and until they shatter those paradigms we're going to be misunderstood and reviled.

But that's not us! Nope! No ma'am! We're conquering that brave new world of self, grappling with essential issues of identity and gender and we WILL NOT be shackled by stereotypes foisted on us by an oppressive society. WE will define ourselves as The New Woman and others will just have to accept that, by golly! We're not believing what we want to believe, we're embracing TRUTH!

Oh, I wish it were so!

One of the biggest realities we have to face is that this trip is not exactly as it was described in the brochure. Natalie Reed describes some of those misconceptions in her blog ( http://skepchick.org/2012/01/13-myths-and-misconceptions-about-trans-women-part-one/ ), and the one that comes to mind is this:

"We’ve all seen it a million times. Bob goes into the hospital as a big, burly, manly dudely dude. Out walks Roberta in her heels and mini-skirt, with her D-cup breasts suddenly magically having appeared out of nowhere, her hair miraculously 12 inches longer, and goes swishing off to sleep with the first unsuspecting guy she can find."

How many of us, pre-transition, had an image like this in our minds? Oh, sure, our rational brains would readily admit that it really wasn't like this, but who among us didn't spend so much time imagining ourselves living our own ideal of a woman's life that it never occurred to us what actually happens the first time you try to walk in heels, or how hard it can be to find clothes that fit well and look right, or that you'll hate your hair or struggle with debilitating doubt?

We do it. We do it because we also fall victim to the hype, and a lot of that hype comes from within our own community. I see it all the time, and it almost always seems to be based in lifestyle and appearance issues. I see it in someone who thinks she's trans but doesn't want to transition if she can't be pretty. I see it in someone else who's frustrated because she's not fitting in with other women (somehow she rejects the notion that this is probably not because she still has a penis but because she has her male privilege in a death grip and won't let go). I know one girl whom I thought was a GG when I first met her - she looks like a woman and has a GREAT voice but is unhappy because she's seen that my FFS was successful and wants desperately to look like me.

And yet, amazingly, we still hear girls saying that they don't think therapy is useful or RLE is necessary.

Yes, that first step is a bitch. But you'd better make peace with that bitch, because you're gonna have to live with her. Just try to be better than her so you don't become a bitch, too.

[Inna]

Do you take this prescription once or twice a day and are there any side effects??? LOL

Yep, dose of reality like it really is.

You run full steam, take up speed, open your wings and slowly take flight oh, how exhilarating it is to feel the wind pick you up and allow you to soar freely, oh what is that, OH NO, not another invisible wall......SLAM!
Aching pride slides down the scratchy surface of the concrete wall of perception, that of an image stripped of its inflated hope and illusion.

Tears run down the rouge powdered cheeks, flimsy surrendered stride towards the cave I make my way to retrieve, I am wounded and for a while I have given up, but each step, each dried tear, and each breath of same air through my glossy lip rejuvenates the ideal that it all is possible, that my blind trust in the impossible is at hand, is somewhere in the distance, perhaps horizon I cant yet see but it is promised there, I have promised it be there, I alone!

Such was my story, wrapped with dreams and impossible striving towards reality which truly seemed unreal but inevitable or else I would have taken me of the edge of this world into the dream I had came from to dream the dream forever.

So YES, transition sounds very finite, yet it isn't! as Melissa points out! It is the road paved with thorns, ready to pierce and bleed your soul of the only thing you hold dear. But for most, it is no choice, no fun ride in the park of gender, but harsh, stone cold reality of swaying THEIR perception, so that hopefully at one moment THEY will see a person already there for years but unable to be, JUST as they are, whole and true!

[Aprilrain]

Not to mention trying to find shoes that actually fit!:heehee:

[Jorja]

Well, I see you girls have been into the sacramental wine early today :). I have to run off and do business right now but hopefully I will return early and give my $0.02 whether it is wanted or not. ;)

[Deborah_UK]

[ Real life is having everybody look at you when you walk into a room, or tap their buddy on the shoulder as you walk past, or giggle when you drive up to get your latte at Fourbucks. This is every single day with no end in sight.

Sorry, but not in my experience. Almost three years F/T and can only recall once where a party of four teenagers/early twenties made comments to each other. And I was told by a friend that a couple acted in a similar way when I walked by. I'm sorry if its been your experience, but you can't claim it as something that this is "real life".

[TeresaL]

I'm still on the outside looking in, and what I'm seeing and hearing has really sobered me up. The phrase "don't transition if you don't have to," which is said here on occasion, IMO, must've originated from those who have done so, and yes, paid the price. So much effort, suffering, and birth pain. You have to be driven, and driven hard.

I'm still on the sidelines, and support those brave souls who absolutely, without a preponderance of a doubt, must transition.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Deborah you have posted in the past about a waiter saying "he"... its not neccessarily about being mocked , its being misidentified..its about people that see us not giving us the respect of "believing" we are women..
..and it can happen to the prettiest and most passable..

Its true that a majority of people simply don't care and are ok with it...most people are "good" and don't like to mock or make others uncomfortable...it is inarguably healthy to have a strong internal confidence that allows a feeling of comfort..
but we interact with everyone, all dad, every day...the minority are well represented in our daily lives..

its right to feel that who cares what a saleslady or waiter thinks about me..or that guy walking past me smirking...not caring is a learned skill for most of us..

but its just not true that we don't get looked at.....especially prior to ffs and/or a long period of learning to blend in...
...having the good sense and strong will to have valuable blinders on about how people react is different than people having no reaction..what melissa posted is true..michelle too..

in any case, i'd rather make sure people thinking about this know what its really like and help people prepare for it..if you never get looked at then that's great too.

..hope for the best, expect the worst kind of thing.

[Lorileah]

Damn Melissa, I thought it was a cakewalk. You know where everyone just looks at me and whistles. After all, I can pass 100%.:whistling:

Since I know that people will stare, I just go with that. When someone says "no one noticed" it should come with the post script "who said or did anything". Oh, yes, I turn heads. And I see the quick look away or the lean into the friend. I hope what they are talking about is how much they would really like to be with me, take me to the French Riviera, but we know. In fact I do the same thing (usually the "OH my god, don't they have a mirror in their house?"). But I am not 24/7 so even though I see it often I don't get it daily like a transitioning TS would. I don't have the guts to do that (I am still holding onto the pool rim, debating if it is the right thing for me.).

Real life; where when you are not in your routine environment, you get sized and dissected, chopped and scrutinized and then they place you in your box. Deborah may be one of the few who float through but honestly, most of us have features that will never change (there is no surgery that I know that will make your pelvic girdle wider...and if it did it would hurt like hell and you would have to walk with assistance). Most of us cannot be shorter. And that damn rib cage thing. Ya go with what ya got. I know TS's who are perfectly happy even though they get pegged on rare occasions (read that as having someone say or do something that shows they "know"...most people are adult enough to not make a reaction). I don't know any who don't get pegged but then again, that is what we would love to achieve and maybe they have faded into society and they are living the Stepford experience now. I think the best I can hope for is that people will just like me for me. :daydreaming:

[Badtranny]

Sorry, but not in my experience. Almost three years F/T and can only recall once where a party of four teenagers/early twenties made comments to each other. And I was told by a friend that a couple acted in a similar way when I walked by. I'm sorry if its been your experience, but you can't claim it as something that this is "real life".

No offense but I want to see pics and a lot of them. I live in one of the best places in the world for tranny watching and as I am one myself I feel like my position is pretty well rooted in reality. There ARE exceptions but they are rare as exceptions tend to be. I think for trans women in my age range, (I'm 44 if you must know) they are even rarer.

I am one of the lucky ones that presents pretty well and lives very naturally as a woman, yet I was noticeably getting read every single day up until just a few weeks ago when I stopped noticing it so much. I still notice it on occasion, but I'm also beginning to notice the experience of truly passing for the first time. The weird almost disembodied feeling of a strange man smiling at me and tripping over himself to grab the door. To be really seen is pretty amazing, but so far those feelings are pretty rare for me. Thankfully the feeling of being a spectacle is diminishing so maybe at some point the better experience will overtake the crummy one.

I feel like I am one of the exceptions because I still believe (maybe optimistically) that I will be out of the woods in another six months. I have seen many T girls, some Post-op that I fear will never have an easy time of it.

So Deb, I'm gonna put you on the spot. I post here because I want people to know the truth about my experience. I want to support transitioners but I want them to know the real deal as I see it before they make commitments they might regret. I've posted plenty of pictures on here and my blog (which is linked to every post). I have made no secret about where I live and what I do for a living, in fact I may be the least anonymous person on this forum. I don't have any choice but to stand behind what I say so if you're going to challenge my honest view of transition then you need to put up some pics over the last three years of your journey so we can see what a smooth ride it's been. You don't owe it to me, you owe that to the girls who are on the fence who just might be persuaded by your testimony.

[stefan37]

I get exactly what you are describing. I am on the start of my journey and i have no illusions that my maleness will be with me for some time. Cruising around the general population I have observed most people have no clue or even pay attention.There are some tho that pay attention to their surroundings and either stare or some cases laugh
Not long ago i had a building inspector laugh in my face while i was filling out a permit application. He even walked around the counter to get a better look then laughed some more. I endure these encounters
ecause they prepare me for situations i will face aa i move forward. I also have observed men look with disdain or deriscion while women tend to be more open and friendly. As i contemplate the losses i may incur, I have no choice but to move forward based on tbe positive events in my life brought on by the mental changes of hrt and liberating feeling of finally being myself

[Bree-asaurus]

Sorry, but not in my experience. Almost three years F/T and can only recall once where a party of four teenagers/early twenties made comments to each other. And I was told by a friend that a couple acted in a similar way when I walked by. I'm sorry if its been your experience, but you can't claim it as something that this is "real life".

She very well can make that claim. It is real life for MANY transsexuals. You are either one of the lucky ones who passes 100% or you're oblivious to how people really see you. Be happy you are so lucky... and show some respect for the TONS of transitioned transsexuals who may never pass and DO have to deal with this kind of stuff for the rest of their lives.

[Saffron]

I feel better now.

:doh:

[Deborah_UK]

Oh dear, oh dear, I try to give my experience and because it doesn't fit in with others pre-conceived ideas of how this path in life should go and how hard it is so don't enter it without heeding the warnings.

Kaitlynn, yes you're right I did get "sirred" by a waiter and it upset me at the time, but clearly it wasn't that traumatic because I'd forgotten all about it until you brought it up (guess you've been reading back through all my earlier posts to see where you could catch me out)

Melissa, I really don't see why I have to prove myself to you by posting photos - I've had photos on here before, and only recently deleted them, because I was actually getting fed up with this place and considered stopping posting, but like to help where I can with MY experiences, which are clearly different to yours, and I have certainly given the benefit of my experience through the NHS system on the sticky at the top of this page.

Bree-asaurus - yes, she can make that claim, but I was trying to point out that Melissa was (like most) being over generalistic, painting an awful picture, where in some (not all - I'd never be that presumptious) cases we are just allowed to get on with our lives. I also know some post op girls who have been verbally and physically attacked. I was merely pointing out MY experience.

Guess I'm another who is out of step with the thought police, so hopefully I'll leave this place to those who know better than me. I'm clearly not worthy.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I see it all the time: I want to transition because I have a fetish. I want to transition because I get sexually aroused. I want to transition because girls/women are so cool and I would love to be like that. I want to transition to escape my past. I want to transition because... well, I don't know why... just because!

Then once in a while you see: I want to transition because I want my outside to look like the woman I have always been on the inside. The soul that never fit into a "man's" world. The soul that always aliened itself with other girls/women whether openly displayed or not. The soul that has been tormented throughout it's existence. To those poor souls I say, when has transitioning been an option? To those souls there are only two roads to travel: transition or suicide. Those who choose the former, do so irrespective of societies acceptance of them. I have personally seen these souls. Some were physically beautiful, some were mediocre, and some were but ass ugly BUT ALL WHERE HAPPY AS WOMEN!

Is it easy - Hell no!
Is it expensive - Hell yes!
Do you loose your wife/SO/GF, children, other family members, other loves, friends, church, jobs, professional associations/associates, careers - sometimes yes!
Do you have a choice - NOT IN A MILLION YEARS!

MY TAKE IS THIS - AND YOU ARE ALL FREE TO SCREAM "FOUL" or tell me I am full of shit. Neither will alter my feelings however when I say, "If ANY of these things stop you from transitioning, then you are not transsexual.

If my "opinion" blows this thread wide-open to intelligent debate then that's great!

[ReineD]

I can write from the viewpoint of an outsider who has met transwomen in RL.

I agree with Melissa. Other than one petite TS that I've met who transitioned in her late teens, and another who has had multiple facial surgeries and who transitioned about 7 years ago, I also can tell if someone was born physically male. This has to do with a combination of several things that I won't list here. But, I think it is important to say that once I get to know her, she is not a male to me nor can she be compared to one. My brain does differentiate between a birth female and a transwoman, I cannot erase the knowledge that someone has transitioned vs. someone who was born with a female body, but if I am to choose a gender to classify her into, she is more female to me than male.

Maybe some (or most?) people who serve the lattes, who serve the food, who take the money at the cash registers, or the people who do have a bias against this, the people who haven't taken the time to get to know and see the inner being, can't get beyond the stereotypes. To Deborah_UK, unless you are the exception to the rule, do not mistake people who keep their opinions to themselves as having a blind acceptance that you are a GG.

But, when I think of everyone that I know, it is the aggregate of who they are that informs my overall impression of them. When I think of my close female and male friends, I do not primarily think of them as being male or female. It is the sum total of their characters and personalities that characterizes them in my mind: the easy to get along with person. The one who is always late. The type A personality. The creative one. The smart one. The quiet one. The one with a wicked sense of humor. The way they present is a big part of this (the bohemian one, the conservative one, the edgy one, the attractive one) and if you present as a woman then this gets tied to everything else that you are in your friends' minds. They will primarily think of you as who you are as a person and they will accept that you are a woman more than a man, in my opinion, or at least I do. I don't know if what I'm saying makes any sense or if it makes a difference.

And I agree fully with the other points that you and Michelle make: I've sensed by reading many posts here (and on the other side of the forum), that there is an idealistic and romantic view of what life as a woman will be after transition: the beautiful woman who is adored and has multiple men falling at her feet. If the reason to transition is to live that dream, then the person does have a rude awakening ahead of her, not only because of the difficulty in erasing the male gender cues, but even when and if they are all erased, most of us GGs don't live that way. lol. Most of the men that I encounter in my daily life do not fall at my feet. They treat me as just a regular person. :p

Thank you for starting this thread.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I also can tell if someone was born physically male. This has to do with a combination of several things that I won't list here.

You are talking the easy way out. When you make a comment like this in this section, don't you have an obligation to back it up with facts to enlighten all of us?

Not all males have larger heads, protruding brows, larger feet or palms or short fingers and large fingernails. Nor do all men have beards, broad shoulders, budging Adam's apple, ruff skin, body hair, or flat butts. The list goes on but do dear enlighten to the sheep before we are lead to slaughter.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

all melissa is saying is that we need to prepare ourselves to be a brick wall against any and all obstacles..and a big obstacle is stepping out and being put in a position to feel bad about yourself and what you are doing..


Deborah..

I did read back because i remember something about that post...i felt bad about it at the time...i care about reading posts..

I'm not critical of your ability to ignore moments that you choose, and i've seen your picture, you are right , you owe people nothing...
i took my picture down too..(btw yours is still in the profile section)

I have experienced both sides...i didn't pass prior to ffs...i looked ok i guess but not close to passing...i'm 6'2
...my ffs was very successful..i got a very natural outcome that suits me...i have small hands and i'm blessed with curves that i don't deserve... i have lived the difference... i got the sirs and the looks...i recall being called "buddy" quite mockingly once..they didn't happen "alot"...but i was always on my guard..these moments drove me to get over my phobias and submit to ffs....that was my choice and I accept this was only my own experience..but its consistent with every single transsexual person i have ever met...

i think its important to specifically share honest moments ...altho melissa's comments were a generalization.. she has shared many specific moments over time, and so have you
...and both are consistent with melissa's general statement

It's not thought police. its intellectually dishonest to take a position that something doesn't happen when it clearly does...especially when people so often have an idealistic view of what day to day life is going to be like someday..

in the end, i hope everybody can make great decisions for themselves based on all the information and i guess in the end, people can read what we are both saying and decide for themselves..

[Inna]

We do usually focus on the centralism of transsexual condition within the aspects of folks we know from the small tight circle of friends both here and in Real Life experience. But we seldom discuss the girl at the counter at Panera bread, girl at Mc Donald's, Good looking yet short dude who just passed you in the mall without you making second eye contact. They do exist, they are all over, and if they them selves do not confront us with their past we would have never assumed.
It is true that society have become way more tolerant and nearly every high school in the nation has transgender, gay/lesbian scholar within the crowd, and yes they are fully passable the younger they get, to the point no one can tell, regardless of features because of stopped puberty. The age of Old Farts such as yours trully is coming to the end, how wonderful of a thought!!!!!
Yet, I truly believe, even though everything Melissa had said rings true and so not distant reality of mine, We are the architects of our reality, and even though it is extremely hard to bend such reality to our liking, I believe I have done it.
From where I have started, I was sentenced by the default to life of regrets and painful remarks, yet, through blind focused determination I have bent my reality to that of totality.

I am a woman, despite occasional mishaps of few months before, now I am taken without hesitation, despite my larger hands, feet, or height as a natural real tall blond woman. And YES I am a woman, what have changed is that my avatar now reflects whom I always was, yet deprived within onlooking eyes of strangers.

I believe that life is pain, and our job is to learn how to turn pain into joy!!!!!

[Badtranny]

Melissa, I really don't see why I have to prove myself to you by posting photos -.

True, but the fact remains that I simply don't believe you. I could say I fly into work every day in a little Cessna 150 that my uncle gave me, but that doesn't make it true.

You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts, and the fact is that the overwhelming majority of midlife transitioners have a rough go of it for at least the first year or two after transition. You cannot dispute that except anecdotally and in the case of your example, I just can't help but be curious about what you must have looked like in that first year. I'm skeptical because it is so rare, but I'm also very interested in seeing such a magnificent creature.

[Jorja]

First, I have to say I agree with your assessments of the situation. Transition is rough for anyone who goes through it. It does take a great deal of intestinal fortitude to get through it. What so many do not understand is it also takes “moral courage" or acting in a way that enhances what one believes to be good in spite of social disapproval and possible backlash. Then we have to add in “psychological bravery” which means acting against one’s own natural inclinations and facing fears which might not have any societal moral implications. Then, we have to toss in a good dose of perseverance because it involves continuing along a path in the midst of and after having faced opposition and perhaps failure. Lest we not forget honesty and authenticity. They mean more than simply telling the truth. It involves integrity in all areas of one’s life and the ability to be true to oneself and one’s role in the world. It sounds to me that if anyone could survive all that, they should be honored as a national hero. I think if you go look at what constitutes a Medal of Honor or a Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient. They will have the same qualities instilled.

Why then, do people think we are the scum of the earth? How do we get the general public to understand us? Why, still to this very day, does the media highlight the words crossdresser, transgender, transsexual in their stories as if it were the plague?

To be fair, we can’t put all the blame on the public. We, in the transgender community, keep shooting ourselves in the foot quite often. Here is a recent example of that. http://www.wmur.com/political-scoop/Nashua-state-Rep-resigns-because-criminal-punishment-makes-her-ineligible-to-serve/-/16254890/17568882/-/gsc407/-/index.html?absolute=true I am sure if you look you will find even more examples.

I very rarely out myself but I have on occasion. When I hear someone senselessly bad mouthing us to feel….. superior to us. Have they ever actually met a trans woman in person before?

I don’t know. I have been trying for 30 years to change the perception. It is like walking through thick mud. Things are improving though. We are slowly being accepted. It will be several more years before we become “mainstream”. I am not sure it will be in my lifetime but it will happen. The only thing we can do is keep working at it.

[Dawn cd]

I don't doubt Melissa's experience, and I suspect it is true of most transexuals. But I have some questions: Does age make a difference? For instance, do those who transition at puberty or even in their early 20s have it easier? Second, does it make it easier if you move to another town were people didn't know you as a guy? Because, Melissa, I know you transitioned "in place"—even at the same job. Didn't that give you a web of connections where people already knew you?

[ReineD]

You are talking the easy way out. When you make a comment like this in this section, don't you have an obligation to back it up with facts to enlighten all of us?


I didn't want to take this thread off topic since it is not about a listing of all the physiological differences between birth males and birth females. So, I've just PMed you with the details. If you feel they contribute to the topic, and if you check with Misty and she wants to conversation to veer that way, you have my permission to post my PM. :)

[Badtranny]

Does age make a difference? For instance, do those who transition at puberty or even in their early 20s have it easier?

I suspect that it does I was speaking directly from my experience as a late transitioner and to other people considering a later transition. Transitioning young admittedly changes everything in regard to my premise.



Second, does it make it easier if you move to another town were people didn't know you as a guy?

For the sake of my position, I say no. I'm talking specifically about how we look and I submit that the first year or two after going full-time is a very challenging time BECAUSE we look a little odd and I don't think it matters if people know your history or not. You may indeed be a woman for all they know but you LOOK like a tranny.
Michelle.M can answer that better than I though since that is exactly what she did.

[Kathryn Martin]

We do it because we also fall victim to the hype, and a lot of that hype comes from within our own community.

This is the worst disservice this community does to itself. All the hype comes from our community. You cannot buy being a woman from a can, surgery or in the apparel store. The likelihood that you will "become" a woman is almost zero. This is why it is so crucial to diagnose your condition correctly. This why RLE is crucial, to determine if you can either pass absolutely or if you can survive the reality of being a not so passable woman with a transsexual history.

This is not about being Sir'ed, not at all about acceptance, it about being whole. It is about being unnoticed, integrated and living a fulfilling life. And anyone who walks down that path at any age whatsoever, "will do" will never do. The community is plastered with lonely, unsatisfied, unloved people who tried and failed. If someone says to you "you go girl" when you say you think that you may be a transsexual you should run. It's nonsense and is in most cases only a justification for the persons own failings in the hope to find some protection in the group. You can't learn to walk like a woman or talk like one unless you are one. You can unlearn talking like a guy to protect you in those years where you hid behind your male facade.

If someone tells you that they accept you, or tells you that they admire you, understand the subtext: they talk about your guts to present as a woman but not that you are one. If your girlfriend tells you that her sister told her yesterday when talking about you: "did you see what she was wearing, I would not be caught dead in that" then, and only then have you made it. Or when a woman get pissy with you because her man flirted with you at a party, then you are seen for who you are. If your school principle asks you to be chaperone for the girls next school trip, then you are trusted.

[Jorja]

I have some questions: Does age make a difference? For instance, do those who transition at puberty or even in their early 20s have it easier? Second, does it make it easier if you move to another town were people didn't know you as a guy? Because, Melissa, I know you transitioned "in place"—even at the same job. Didn't that give you a web of connections where people already knew you?

I transitioned at 23. The actual physical part of transition was a snap for me. The effects of testosterone were there but not that much of a problem. Kinda like I was always supposed to be this way. The crap I had to deal with from the public was a nightmare. Remember, that was 30 years ago. Being TS was still illegal in many places. I would say that today it is easier for a young TS. There are just so many variables to it all it is hard to say one way or the other.

As for moving to a new town, it is kind of a toss up on that one. I think a lot depends on what you look like. If you are still looking very much like a man in a dress, you are going to look like a man in a dress anyplace you go. If you make a reasonable presentation as a woman you have a 50/50 chance at success.

[melissaK]

Thank you all for this thread. You have no idea. It may sound counter-intuitive but its been inspiring.

Melissa you have validated every reason why I fought so hard to resist transitioning. I needed that. I paid a huge price.

Traci, telling me (once again) I have two choices, suicide or transition, validates all that I experienced, felt and came to believe after resisting broke me and took me to that point. Putting myself back together mentally has been hard. unsuccessful integration led to relapses but getting to the two choices happened faster and actually served to drive a successful integration.

Now I face unpleasant changes. I face a lot of unknowns. It's scary. Jorga's noble moral view about it is uplifting. I hadn't thought about it that way. I have stood my ground for many of my client's rights over the years of my career, and I think I need to do so for myself for a change.

Thanks again to all of you. :)

[arbon]

It is a difficult road to go down.

The only thing I can really say is that from the experience of transitioning I've become a much stronger, confident person than I ever thought I could be.

[Saffron]

About RLE, I think the biggest concern people have against it it's when they try to push you when you still don't feel ready.

Being at the start of my transition (no HRT), I've been trying to go out dressed periodically, and I just feel like a man in drag outside, so I can understand why people wants to be on HRT at least some months until trying things like RLE. At least in my situation I know I'm at the worst point, and that gives me hope.


I suspect that it does I was speaking directly from my experience as a late transitioner and to other people considering a later transition. Transitioning young admittedly changes everything in regard to my premise.

I'm not sure about that, at that age you have to deal with your parents and school or college can be a hell. Of course HRT effects would surely be better, but it didn't change the months or years during transition.

[Badtranny]

I'm not sure about that, at that age you have to deal with your parents and school or college can be a hell. Of course HRT effects would surely be better, but it didn't change the months or years during transition.

Well, all I know is what I know and I was never a young transitioner so I don't know. ;-)

[Raquel June]

Real life isn't like Mrs Doubtfire

LIES!



Apparently something about transition is perceived as romantic

Being a martyr is pretty romantic.



You may one day be a full-time woman but before you get there you first have to endure being a full-time tranny. Those are the dues, and I don't see a way around paying 'em.

Yeah, those are the dues. And there can be quite a disparity in how much we each have to pay. But when you come out the other side well-adjusted, you've gained some great friends, you've gained the self-respect to roll your eyes at the a-holes, and you've lost the fear of being read.

There are people out there who magically pass 98% of the time as soon as they transition.* But, speaking as one of the uglier chicks trying to turn lemons into whatever, it's kinda awesome to get through that (even though I'm on round two and not exactly all the way through it).

Because being read is like a magical window into people's souls. You don't even have to talk to someone to know if they're nice of if they're an a-hole.



* I really don't think there are that many people who pass as well as they think, though, and some of the nuttiest trannys are the ones who are convinced they're hot because they've developed some kind of defense where they tune out reality.

[famousunknown]

Sugar & Spice & Everything Nice?
Holy Crap, these girls are tough...TOUGH, I tell you!
I'm thinking maybe I should offer up my 5" heels to appease the Tranny Gods?

[Saffron]

At the end, what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

I must say that since I've started my road to transition, I've meet a lot of wonderful people. And when you get to be threated like the woman you are, those are the best moments I can remember of my life.

[kellycan27]

I'm not sure about that, at that age you have to deal with your parents and school or college can be a hell. Of course HRT effects would surely be better, but it didn't change the months or years during transition.

As someone who started her RLE at age 20 I am going to have to disagree with you in regards to dealing with college and parents as "hell". Once my parents knew I really didn't care what other people thought.( Even though they were dead set against it) As for college, my peers were a lot more tolerant than I might have thought, and as for the adults.. they really didn't pay me much mind like it was some sort of fad I was going through like being goth or punk. I didn't start to physically transition until the age of 24 and that was more do to with circumstance rather than by design. I hadn't the resources so I needed to work and save

[ReineD]

Being at the start of my transition (no HRT), I've been trying to go out dressed periodically, and I just feel like a man in drag outside, so I can understand why people wants to be on HRT at least some months until trying things like RLE.



I must say that since I've started my road to transition, I've meet a lot of wonderful people. And when you get to be threated like the woman you are, those are the best moments I can remember of my life.

Would it matter if you met someone like me, someone who said, "I don't care if you haven't been on HRT long enough to look like a GG, or if you've had sufficient FFS or not. I believe who you say you are, I see who you are internally, and we will be friends."

[Debglam]

I think this is slightly drifting from the original post (sorry Melissa!) but Traci said something that I have been thinking about for awhile:


I have personally seen these souls. Some were physically beautiful, some were mediocre, and some were but ass ugly BUT ALL WHERE HAPPY AS WOMEN!

I used to work with a woman (GG) who by any objective standards was unattractive. BUT(!!!) being in her presence was like being in the presence of a movie star! She radiated a beauty and charm from the inside that made you feel like you were in the presence of a goddess. I don't really understand it, maybe I'm just weird (yeah, understatement :D ) but it happened.

I have been in the presence of a lot of transwomen and I see a similar thing. You look and talk to some and there is no doubt in your mind, in fact you don't even think about it, that you are in the presence of a woman. I don't think this is a matter of passing or some sort of "optical illusion" but simply that you are seeing who they are, like the woman I mentioned above. I believe that most people will see the real you.

However, I also think that there are mean spirited people out there who will never see you as you are. The people that are trying to read you or that would comment about it within earshot would do the same thing to someone in a wheelchair or with a visible birthmark, etc. I have felt this sting but freely admit that as a middle-pather I always have the option of retreat. You have to ride over these speed bumps to the best of your ability.

To bring it back to the OP, to you brave souls that KNOW who you are, know also that a lot (most) people will see that. Ignore the rest.

[Deborah_UK]

but you are not entitled to your own facts,

What???????? I refer the poster to my comment about the thought police - thanks you've confirmed it


but I'm also very interested in seeing such a magnificent creature

I have never claimed to be "a magnificent creature" but its nice to know the playground bully is still around, and well done Melissa you've bullied another victim.

If you had been on this forum for longer than 16 months you'd have seen some of my pics ....... oops nearly fell into the bully's trap of trying to justify myself to her.

[AudreyTN]

Transition is a trip and that first step is a real bitch.

I guess it depends on your attitude and your outlook. I had a little uncertainty, but no real doubts or fears about anyone seeing me dressed as a female. In fact I felt comfortable and 100% fine. it was everyone else who was feeling awkward but I ignored it.

My transition has been a blessing. I've heard the nasty comments, been called names, get stared at, been given dirty disapproving looks. I just blow it off. I go to school and I see people who knew me before staring in disbelief, not quite sure what to say or how to react. I certainly haven't "passed" yet, because I'm not naive enough to think I look convincingly feminine enough, but that just comes with the territory. but it's enough for me right now to get me through by knowing that I look better as a female, than I do as a male and I feel better emotionally, and so I don't really care that others might think I look awful or "like a tranny".

When I have those moments of anxiety, I simply click on Carmen Carrera's facebook page, and I look at her transition pics, and I reassure myself that in 2 years, the majority of my masculinity will be gone. masked by hormones replacement therapy, ffs, and breast implants. if I can make it through 4 1/2 years of college...by golly I can make it through this.

so, really my transition hasn't been that hard. For that I'm blessed, but to me it's just another sign that I am making the right decision because I haven't been this worry/stress free in my life, and I'm preparing for finals for this semester and I'm always usually stressed during finals, and I don't have any stress or anxiety right now.

it's whatever you choose to make it. you have the power, you're in control. you can be happy, and not worry about what people think and make it easier on yourself, or you can live in fear, and let fear control you, and make yourself miserable, angry, resentful and depressed.

I choose the first option, I've lived the 2nd for most of my life and I grew tired of that. :)

Remember, you'll never change what happened yesterday, but you control what you do today, so that tomorrow will be a blessed day.

[Pink Person]

I get read as a queer by everyone all of the time. Almost no one understands the correct nature of my queerness by looking at me. I manage to live with it nevertheless.

I don't disagree with many of the points that other people have already made. However, I do want to interject a message that doesn't get made enough in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with being TG or TS. When TG and TS people start acting like this is true, maybe everyone else will start to believe it too.

[Michelle.M]

I think this is slightly drifting from the original post . . .

I used to work with a woman (GG) who by any objective standards was unattractive. BUT(!!!) being in her presence was like being in the presence of a movie star! . . . I have been in the presence of a lot of transwomen and I see a similar thing.

No, I think that observation meshes quite neatly here.

THAT, in my uneducated opinion, is the essence of the transition to a new life that we seek. As I pointed out in my earlier post, too many girls put way too much emphasis on the external aspects of their ideal female life and don't pay enough attention to the internal transition needed to shed the old male socialization and settle into a previously foreign womanhood. And to be honest, haven't we all done that to some extent? I know I have.

For me, transition is mostly internal. Oh, of course my appearance requires adjustments, and as Misty and I both well know at times we need a full exterior overhaul. And in many cases (mine included) GRS will follow as well. And as important as these things are they're not what make me a woman. Once I claimed my own womanhood and learned to shed the old guy and became comfortable with the me that has been hidden inside me all these years THEN I began to truly live.

Learning to love oneself, to be comfortable in your womanhood - this is natural. And being at ease with myself makes others comfortable around me and minimizes the strife that I might otherwise expect from others and makes my daily life, well, normal!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

and that is the essence of melissa's OP... although framed as a bit of a warning, its really a message that if you want to do this...get ready

even if we believe that some people do not ever suffer the moments melissa talks about, everybody else does...

whether our internal dialogue steels our mind for transition by saying F*** them! the *******s won't keep me down, or whether we choose to attempt to use medical technology to blend, or whether we rise above by just being the best person we can (all of above is possible too btw!)...it doesnt matter nearly as much as the doing of it...

if you are doing it, you are rising above... if you can truly feel that way about yourself..thats a wonderful thing because if you truly feel that way, all the BS rolls off your back..
and if you can't feel that way about yourself...be REALLY CAREFUL because melissa's OP is a very realistic viewpoint of what happens..

[Inna]

OK, I think I have a pretty good idea of what is at hand, and will try not to hijack the thread but make certain clarification as to the nature of observations by individual transitioners.

As humans we carry certain constants and also quite a lot of diversity within the mechanism of being a human.

Some have much better tuned hearing, some way keener site, some can smell viruses, and then some this or that. These are all intrinsic set ups to our genetic coding, and so we will perceive the world we live in based on the tools we have been dealt at birth.

Transition is a heck of a ride, but over all, it is simply to finally become ONE with body and mind, and so the trip, and everything in-between will be absorbed through these different means of perception.

I am extremely visual person, I was a real good painter at age of 10, I was a top of my class while studying architecture, I had an excellent spacial visual perception, but also always tended to be keen on internal aspects of reality, spirituality and knowing of truth.

All these had an impact on how I approached my transition!!!

To me visual perception of an image of a woman was of most importance, I didn't want to become a transsexual ( well, not to everyone around me, since I already had that dealt to me at birth) but I needed to be seen and interacted with as a natural woman. Steep requirement when you are 44, lol

I already knew who I was, and as I always make clear, as I dreamed in my childhood and youth, I always dreamed of a day I am going to be a woman, not a tranny, not a social anomaly, not an outcast, but a natural, real woman!!!!!!!

Now, to someone who has a different set of keen sense of self, such visual ques may not need be as important as they were to me, so in the essence there are some constants within transition but then also, there are many factors which will be specific to individual perception!!!!

[Saffron]

Would it matter if you met someone like me, someone who said, "I don't care if you haven't been on HRT long enough to look like a GG, or if you've had sufficient FFS or not. I believe who you say you are, I see who you are internally, and we will be friends."

If all people were like this, passing would be anecdotal. I'm sure a lot of us won't even feel the need of transition.

[jennifer24]

I get exactly what you are describing. I am on the start of my journey and i have no illusions that my maleness will be with me for some time. Cruising around the general population I have observed most people have no clue or even pay attention.There are some tho that pay attention to their surroundings and either stare or some cases laugh
Not long ago i had a building inspector laugh in my face while i was filling out a permit application. He even walked around the counter to get a better look then laughed some more. I endure these encounters
ecause they prepare me for situations i will face aa i move forward. I also have observed men look with disdain or deriscion while women tend to be more open and friendly. As i contemplate the losses i may incur, I have no choice but to move forward based on tbe positive events in my life brought on by the mental changes of hrt and liberating feeling of finally being myself

Amen Stefan, I know it bothers some when they get read and hurts them emotionaly, sure we all want to pass as a women and not hear negitive comments or hear snickers as we walk away, but truth be told, that aint gonna stop.
For me though, I do not let other peoples negitive comments get me down, who cares about them? long as I`m happy with who I am I could give a D... what others think. I tend to look at all the positive things in life and move forward.
Just my 2 cents.

[Kathryn Martin]

Sorry, that may be true for some, but not for others. I could not imagine a circumstance in which I would not have felt the need to transition. For me this is not about acceptance but about who I am. Passing does not mean being perfectly dressed (surgically or otherwise) but about not being mistaken for something we are not on the most basic, visceral level.



If all people were like this, passing would be anecdotal. I'm sure a lot of us won't even feel the need of transition.

[Saffron]

Of course, that's why I didn't say everyone. But from what I've read, there's a lot of TS who don't.

[Bree-asaurus]

Of course, that's why I didn't say everyone. But from what I've read, there's a lot of TS who don't.

Well... THAT is most likely due to fear or not knowing what options you have.

If society didn't care about gender, then some transsexuals might not transition, but I'd think most would. But in a genderless society we wouldn't have to transition because we would be able to be ourselves from the get-go.

[Sally24]

Sorry, but not in my experience. Almost three years F/T and can only recall once where a party of four teenagers/early twenties made comments to each other. And I was told by a friend that a couple acted in a similar way when I walked by. I'm sorry if its been your experience, but you can't claim it as something that this is "real life".

Since you threw the first punch I don't see where you get off on the "thought police" comment. Anyone whose been on here for years knows that the experience you describe is NOT typical. Is it true, I'll have to take your word for it.


What???????? I refer the poster to my comment about the thought police - thanks you've confirmed it.
This should have had the whole quote from Melissa and not just a little snippet. Of course, then it would not have made your point.
"You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts, and the fact is that the overwhelming majority of midlife transitioners have a rough go of it for at least the first year or two after transition. You cannot dispute that except anecdotally...."

I think threads like this one are essential to the discussion. It's hard enough to deal with these issues without having bad information to start with. I know how hard it is to live female part time. Just getting out the door sometimes is a trial. Dealing with that every minute of every day has got to be enormously harder. I have great respect for Melissa and others that make that commitment fully knowing that things won't be perfect on the other side. Wishes that we were all 16, skinny, and cute doesn't make it that way. Maybe the next generation will be as lucky as the children that see Dr. Spack in Boston. I'm hoping so anyway....


on a cheery note, I found this article from last year about a trans girl from my own state of Maine who is seeing Dr. Norman Spack in Boston with great results. Makes me very optimistic for the future.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2011/12/11/led-child-who-simply-knew/SsH1U9Pn9JKArTiumZdxaL/story.html

[Aprilrain]

If all people were like this, passing would be anecdotal. I'm sure a lot of us won't even feel the need of transition.

I totally disagree, I transitioned for me not for some waiter or cashier.

[Bree-asaurus]

Since you threw the first punch I don't see where you get off on the "thought police" comment. Anyone whose been on here for years knows that the experience you describe is NOT typical. Is it true, I'll have to take your word for it.

This should have had the whole quote from Melissa and not just a little snippet. Of course, then it would not have made your point.
"You are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts, and the fact is that the overwhelming majority of midlife transitioners have a rough go of it for at least the first year or two after transition. You cannot dispute that except anecdotally...."[/B]

Thank you :) I was thinking this too, but didn't want to turn this into an argument over something silly... and I seem to be really good at fueling arguments lol!

[famousunknown]

What???????? I refer the poster to my comment about the thought police - thanks you've confirmed it
I have never claimed to be "a magnificent creature" but its nice to know the playground bully is still around, and well done Melissa you've bullied another victim.
If you had been on this forum for longer than 16 months you'd have seen some of my pics ....... oops nearly fell into the bully's trap of trying to justify myself to her.

I don’t really see the bully aspect. Some people just don’t want to see the reality of this. I think we need to really try and understand these girls who have gone under the knife take this position because they can usually smell BS a mile away. They’ve heard it all and been thru it all before. Face it, it’s somewhat of a $hit sandwich unless you’re under 20 years of age and really cute, which most of us aren’t.

[melissaK]

So in the spirit of this "full time tranny" thread, I'm not out to but three people. My wife is weighing her feelings. And this morning as we're getting ready for work we're also having a heart felt discussion about transitioning (we're busy, morning chats are our time together) and she looks at me as I'm toweling off and says:

"Look at you! I don't know what you are!"

"Ouch" I said. "I own a mirror. Can't you at least lie to me?"

Yea. I can't wait to come out so people who don't love me can get their comments in. :)

[Badtranny]

Yea. I can't wait to come out so people who don't love me can get their comments in. :)

LOL

It's a hell of a thing.

You know, I don't wish the bad stuff on anybody. I would love it if I was an anomaly and most T-girls were just cake walking through transition. I would be jealous as ****, but it would be nice to know that the world as a whole was not just accepting but inviting. The truth is that some people are accepting and some people aren't, but even our allies will embarrass us by accident sometimes. It is very difficult for people to KNOW what we are but pretend we are not. Pretending is second nature to most of us because we've spent a good bit of our lives pretending to be dudes. Or pretending not to like dudes. Or pretending we don't understand women. I have had enough of pretending personally and I'm not gonna pretend that transition is wonderful just for the sake of somebody's fantasy. Transition is a bitch, plain and simple. The question at the end of the day is; Is it worth it? For me the answer is yes, but for others it won't be. My life IS getting better. I am slowly assimilating into mainstream society and I can foresee a day when people might be shocked to find out I was born a dude. The problem is that day is at LEAST a year in the future and I am one of the LUCKY ones. Questioning girls need to know that there is gonna be a few months or even a couple of years that are going to be very uncomfortable. Yes there ARE exceptions but they are as rare as a masculine top. There is nothing for me to gain by stating this. It doesn't matter to me one little bit if somebody thinks there's a vagina at the end of the rainbow. I've already done it. My name and gender have been legally changed. I'm on the other side now doing my 12 month RLE so I can complete the journey with SRS/GCS if I so decide. What the hell do I care if somebody wants to transition?

I care because I got some bad advice 20 years ago and some good advice 3 years ago. This forum saved my life (draaama!) and I am here to pay it forward. I am here to report on MY experience, and I back it up with pictures and by meeting people who will attest that I am for real. I just met an absolutely adorable girl (Diane Maple) a few days ago as a matter of fact. Don't ya think that of all the forum members I've met, at least one of them might call me out? I am absolutely for real and I have no reason to be here exposing myself like this except to help people who are at the end of their rope just like I was. There's a lot of people that say a lot of stuff here, but most of them are hiding behind a cartoon avatar or a fake name. That's fine for them but I respect transitioners. I take this stuff seriously and when I hear people romanticizing transition I can't help but think of the hardcore CD's (like some of my friends) or the fetish dressers (nothing wrong with that) and how unfair it is to make them think that transition ain't all that bad. It IS bad. That's the truth. There IS a long period of being "different", and it IS soul crushing. Are people accepting? Hell yes they are. People are great for the most part but just because they accept you doesn't mean they don't know what you are or how to deal with you. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area! There couldn't be a more liberal place in the world, but I am relegated to a single unisex bathroom in our warehouse at work. Is it illegal? Maybe, but overall things are pretty good so what do I do? What do the girls who live in Arkansas do? This thread is about letting the fence sitters know that a successful transition may indeed be possible, but even in the best case, it's a long process and the hurtful moments are measured in the hundreds and not the dozens.

[Lorileah]

LOL

The truth is that some people are accepting and some people aren't, but even our allies will embarrass us by accident sometimes. you mean like when someone says "He can do that"? when you are standing there fully decked out? And you want to say "Hey!" but you don't because just you are embarrassed, doesn't mean you need to embarrass someone else? Yeah, it happens but we roll with it don't we?
Transition is a bitch, plain and simple. And anyone who thinks it is a skate will have a hard fall when and yes I said WHEN they get called out. Gawd bless those who can just disappear.
I care because I got some bad advice 20 years ago and some good advice 3 years ago. This forum saved my life (draaama!) and I am here to pay it forward. I am here to report on MY experience, and I back it up with pictures and by meeting people who will attest that I am for real. I just met an absolutely adorable girl (Diane Maple) a few days ago as a matter of fact. Don't ya think that of all the forum members I've met, at least one of them might call me out? I am absolutely for real and I have no reason to be here exposing myself like this except to help people who are at the end of their rope just like I was.
There's a lot of people that say a lot of stuff here, but most of them are hiding behind a cartoon avatar or a fake name. That's fine for them but I respect transitioners. I take this stuff seriously and when I hear people romanticizing transition I can't help but think of the hardcore CD's (like some of my friends) or the fetish dressers (nothing wrong with that) and how unfair it is to make them think that transition ain't all that bad. But yet there are those who will say that you should not help those behind you, let them fend for themselves. Don't share your experience and only say nice things about them. Lie about how they are really pretty or sexy or will have in problem in real life. We are here for support but sometimes support says, you don't look that good. I hope that something I say will trigger one person to evaluate where they are. Not everyone on this road is going the same place and the ones with experience with land mines who try and help are often shouted down. It is like poker, if yo can read the tells, you cam mark the pigeon. And trust me the tells are blatant early on. But as you get better at the game, you can fake more.

My one huge purpose here that someday I will say something and someone will say "Hey! Good advice! Thank you" Well and to start fights with certain TSs :)

It is an uphill battle, both ways and I for one am not fighting it at this time. But I know what to expect either way, Lifetime commitment is the least.

Hugs for all my TS friends who have more cahones than I do. at least up until surgery.

[ReineD]

Sorry, that may be true for some, but not for others. I could not imagine a circumstance in which I would not have felt the need to transition. For me this is not about acceptance but about who I am. Passing does not mean being perfectly dressed (surgically or otherwise) but about not being mistaken for something we are not on the most basic, visceral level.

Spoken like a true transwoman. I say "transwoman" because we're here and we're talking about transition, but if I met you in RL I would think of you as a woman and not trans.

Anyway, the reason I said "true" is not to signify "better" or "worse", and I'm not even sure that "true" is the correct word to use to describe something that is significantly different among some transwomen. The difference is, that women like you find any hint of maleness in your bodies as a gross birth defect that must be corrected and if it isn't then surely it is not worth living. I don't know if I'm using the right words to describe the urgency and the dire need for transition, but your motive to live as who you are and to correct your body was not borne out of an idealistic view that being a "woman" would be more fun or more exciting somehow, or that your sexuality as a woman would hold a great deal of power over men. You did not seek to become a woman. You sought to rid your woman's body of something that was unsightly and that did not belong. If in the beginning someone called you Sir, you have the strength of knowledge of who you are to not allow this to destroy your internal landscape.

Other transwomen who are also living full time and have had name changes maybe don't feel the same distaste or horror (if I can use a word this strong) over their male anatomies. They may just see those body parts as a useless appendage which surely must become useless after years of HRT. At any rate, the appendage is not something worth thinking about, especially if she never uses it and she doesn't have the funds to get rid of it, or she can't have SRS for medical reasons, or she is patiently waiting until such time as she can get rid of it. These TSs also are not seeking to "become" women. They are women who also know who they are, even if the presence of the appendage is not as disturbing as it was for you.

And then there are transwomen who also live full time and have had name changes, who also know who they are, their motive to transition wasn't a titillating desire to hold power over men or to be admired as women, but they have a greater acceptance of their body parts. I see them as women as well, albeit of the non-binary variety. I personally would never dream of judging such a TS and tell her she is not a woman, not after she has put herself out there as a woman in her daily life, has changed her name, and well, is a product of our modern society that says that it is OK to not fit into old boxes with regards to a part of her anatomy that no one sees except her most intimate partners. I rather admire her. Her daily expectations of life as a woman are just as real as they are to someone who must have SRS.

But then there are the group of transwomen who want to "become" women and they are more into all the beauty trappings of womanhood than anything else, although it is obviously important for everyone to look the part. But these TSs feel that the beauty trappings are tools to become the sexy women they want to be. They would not want to be an ordinary woman who never gets glanced at twice, and who is ignored by men. There are many "ordinary" GGs who don't see themselves as having a power over men (I'd say a large majority), who find a mate, get married, have kids, have careers, are happy, but who live a life that such a TS might find boring, since there is no focus whatsoever on using "womanly" charms to get their way. None. They don't have a nightlife, they don't expect to be whistled at or even looked at, since this has not been their life experience. These are the GGs who seldom wear makeup, don't pay much attention to their hair, who buy things for their homes rather than clothes and shoes, who save their money for their kids or to go on family vacations. Anyway, I'm not quite sure what to make of such transwomen who cannot imagine being an ordinary woman ... if they really do feel they are women or if they are attracted by what they perceive is a woman's power over men. No one can reach deep into their psyches to determine how happy they will be, once they discover after transition and years of HRT that when they go into the grocery store or the bank, IF they manage to reach stealthness, men won't be falling at their feet (unless they are 10s on the attractiveness scale, which is rare for anyone). Are these the people that you (and also Michelle_M) were referring to Misty, the people who have an idealistic outlook on what it is like to live as a woman?

Sorry for the length of my post everyone. I was indulging in my tendency to clarify, not every single person here, but the major differences between some of the people we've seen post in this section over the years. I'm sure I missed a few. :p

[CharleneT]

Reine - no worries about the length, your post absolutely ROCKS !

Well said, thank you !

[ChelseaErtel]

Thank you for this thread. Far from being discouraging, I have found it encouraging. It gives me strength and hope that I will be able to transition.

I want to do HRT, but I've only told my wife and she needs time to adjust. The eventual outcome is yet to be known, but we both have hope and a great deal of love for each other. I'm hopeful.

My little appendage had been tucked away, useless, unwanted, and ignored 24/7 for over a year. I'd love the damn things gone, they are very annoying and in the way. But at 52 SRS is scary, and I think HRT and some minor FFS will work for me. I have a fairly feminine face and with HRT I think that the changes will be enough for me. I don't want to be a hot young thing. I just want to look my age and not stand out as a man in drag. I'd even consider a modified SRS that just go rid of my member and made look (but not operate) like a woman down there (but who knows what I'll think later).

Thank you for posting, it's not too long, and thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I have found them ENORMOUSLY helpful.

Hugs and kisses to you all, Chelsea

[Kaitlyn Michele]

curing gender dysphoria is the neccessary condition ...everything else is gravy..

when you are faced with gender dypshoria you are simultaneously faced with an impossible problem and you are the most vulnerable you've ever been..

to cure your gender dypshoria you absolutely have to be right with yourself.. all this stuff must be irrelevant to your self esteem... there is no doubt passing and looking female was important to me..and it helped my self esteem and now that i am fully confident and comfortable in my own skin.."passing" doesn't matter anymore...see what i'm saying? its like you have to look at it from the other angle....the way I got here is going to be different than for you.. but we can both get there if we are smart and committed..

its moving from "am i ok?" "how do i look" "do they know/care?"...to it's "i'm ok"."how do i look"..."oh look they're staring"......(i know...the how do i look part is kind of a constant!!)

if you come into it with idealistic notions of how you will be accepted, especially as it relates to appearance..you are going to get hit hard and hit often with cold water that will sorely test your ability to get to that wonderful place where you literally get up everyday and your gender is a non issue in your day to day life...your gender just is......

[Jorja]

curing gender dysphoria is the neccessary condition ...everything else is gravy..

when you are faced with gender dypshoria you are simultaneously faced with an impossible problem and you are the most vulnerable you've ever been..

to cure your gender dypshoria you absolutely have to be right with yourself.. all this stuff must be irrelevant to your self esteem... there is no doubt passing and looking female was important to me..and it helped my self esteem and now that i am fully confident and comfortable in my own skin.."passing" doesn't matter anymore...see what i'm saying? its like you have to look at it from the other angle....the way I got here is going to be different than for you.. but we can both get there if we are smart and committed..

its moving from "am i ok?" "how do i look" "do they know/care?"...to it's "i'm ok"."how do i look"..."oh look they're staring"......(i know...the how do i look part is kind of a constant!!)

if you come into it with idealistic notions of how you will be accepted, especially as it relates to appearance..you are going to get hit hard and hit often with cold water that will sorely test your ability to get to that wonderful place where you literally get up everyday and your gender is a non issue in your day to day life...your gender just is......

Thank You for saying this. I had not yet come up with the correct words this morning to say it myself.

[Traci Elizabeth]

now that i am fully confident and comfortable in my own skin.."passing" doesn't matter anymore.


BINGO! One gets to the point in life that one knows who they are (in my case a woman) and one goes about living their life caring less if someone sometime might question their gender. I think that is where every TS should get too. Keep one's head up high, own the moment, be positive and self-assured and no one is going to question your gender; and if they did, you could care less.

[Michelle.M]

. . . if somebody thinks there's a vagina at the end of the rainbow.

OMG! I just spewed coffee all over my computer screen when I read that!


Other transwomen . . . may just see those body parts as a useless appendage which surely must become useless after years of HRT.

The issue of body parts is problematic, and as I go on I find myself becoming more understanding of those girls who are card-carrying members of the Penis Haters Club. I, however, am not a member. For me this just goes back to that issue of putting too much emphasis on body parts and ignoring the psychic parts that really deserve the most attention. I'm not saying that if a girl is hung up on her willie she's being superficial, I'm just saying that the penis does not have as much power as we have been led to believe. The sooner we realize that the sooner we can move on to more important matters.

Me? Never bugged me all that much. Oh, sure, that rascal has to go! In fact, I just sent off a letter yesterday to my surgeon of choice to ask for a GRS date. But as much as I want Mr Happy to take a permanent vacation his continued presence is more irksome than troublesome. If men had 10 fingers and women only had 9 I'd want to lose a finger as soon as possible, but in the meantime I'll just soldier on.

Still, body-to-soul mismatch is the central issue of gender dissonance. I can see a woman in my mind all I want but if what I see in the mirror doesn't match that only makes the problem worse, internally (ie: my actual physical presence is at odds my psychological view of myself) and externally (ie: with respect to how society sees me and thus continues to treat me as male). For me, I just made a plan to take care of those physical things that I could modify and did it / am doing it, but the real work with the highest payoff is what happens on the inside.


But then there are the group of transwomen who want to "become" women and they are more into all the beauty trappings of womanhood than anything else . . . They would not want to be an ordinary woman who never gets glanced at twice, and who is ignored by men.

And there are GGs with that outlook as well, and they always seem to be unhappy with themselves, with others, with life itself.

A big part of this has to do with how we see women, not having lived as one for most of our lives. In my opinion this is based in how we see our transition! If I think I am transitioning from MALE to FEMALE then I will have to identify a feminine ideal to shoot for. If I think (as I do) that I am transitioning from the world GENDERING ME AS MALE to being GENDERED AS FEMALE, if I take the position that I am not BECOMING a woman but that I always was a woman and am now merely making corrections so I can live accordingly then I don't have to be any more preoccupied with grooming and wardrobe than any other woman. I just need to update my wardrobe and pick up some different grooming products.

Fundamentally it's this - is my self-esteem based on my appearance and the adoration of others? If so, then my conflating this problem with gender transition is counterproductive to my journey, and my self-esteem may actually be the biggest issue in my life that needs attention before I can successfully get anywhere with my gender journey.


There are many "ordinary" GGs who don't see themselves as having a power over men (I'd say a large majority), who find a mate, get married, have kids, have careers, are happy, but who live a life that such a TS might find boring, since there is no focus whatsoever on using "womanly" charms to get their way. None. They don't have a nightlife, they don't expect to be whistled at or even looked at, since this has not been their life experience.

Good observation! Again, this goes back to how we define womanhood and what we expect out of life. I often find myself reminding other girls that if people see you as a woman then that's exactly what you wanted, so quit complaining!

The problem comes when we compare ourselves to others. Yes, I do have a [sporadic] night life, I do get looked at and whistled at, and my FFS was far more successful than I had bargained for and I do get a lot of attention. But none of that really changes my life, which is really not too different than the lives of many of the women I know. I still have to go to the supermarket, maintain my friendships, fulfill my obligations, clean my house (no, I do NOT do it in a pretty dress and heels!) and do all of those other mundane things that we call life.

One thing I constantly hear is the "If only . . . " strain that seems so common among transwomen (mostly among those just starting their transitions). "If only I could start HRT, things would be better" "If only I could have GRS, my life would be complete" "If only I could have FFS, I'd pass better", etc. Sure, these things are great, wonderful, and some are critically important. Others, not so much. But as long as the internal changes are not happening then it doesn't matter a whit if ANY of the external things happen; our girl still is not in transition.


Anyway, I'm not quite sure what to make of such transwomen who cannot imagine being an ordinary woman . . . Are these the people that you (and also Michelle_M) were referring to Misty, the people who have an idealistic outlook on what it is like to live as a woman?

Yes, exactly!


to cure your gender dypshoria you absolutely have to be right with yourself.. all this stuff must be irrelevant to your self esteem...

In my opinion, THAT is the essence of a successful transition!

[Linda St. John]

Wow !!Wish I could have have said all that so well ! Way'to 'go Melissa for telling the real truth ....
Linda

[ColleenA]

The problem comes when we compare ourselves to others. Yes, I do have a [sporadic] night life, I do get looked at and whistled at, and my FFS was far more successful than I had bargained for and I do get a lot of attention. But none of that really changes my life, which is really not too different than the lives of many of the women I know. I still have to go to the supermarket, maintain my friendships, fulfill my obligations, clean my house (no, I do NOT do it in a pretty dress and heels!) and do all of those other mundane things that we call life.

Michelle, your words echo in ways those of Teri Hatcher in her book, "Burnt Toast." She knows people typically look at her and think she must lived a charmed life, yet she has to live with the day-to-day realities of shopping, cleaning the house, raising her daughter, etc.

She relates an incident (pardon me if I don't get the details exactly right, it's been a few years since I read the book) when she was out jogging in the hills near her home and came across two other women out walking or jogging. At the time, she was going through a divorce and felt drawn to them for some girl support/bonding time. Yet she sensed that when they saw who she was, they put up a wall because of her "beauty queen" status. It bothered her that she was treated differently because of their perceptions.

[SamanthaC]

Just have to comment... I love reading threads like this which paint the important and realistic picture of transitioning with all it entails. If anything, this confirms my decision to start down the transition path. I'm under no illusions about the difficulty involved, and long lasting impacts. So knowing this, to still *need* to correct the physical and social gender I was born with is very reassuring.

Thank you all so much, especially Melissa and Reine.

To summarise, prepare for and expect the worst, hope for the best.

[Badtranny]

To summarize, prepare for and expect the worst, hope for the best.

Thanks for the props Quad, but I totally disagree with the prepare for the worst sentiment. I am really glad you said it though because it gives me an opportunity to say this;
I never prepare for or expect the worst of anything. Transitioners have a tough road in front of them, but so does everybody in their own way. Sure I've had some bad experiences so far and I've been embarrassed, and mortified, and scared stiff, but I expect things to get BETTER. I am a big believer in carefully managing your transition and coordinating decisions with your available resources but please don't prepare for the worst. Plan for the best. Look forward to the best. Believe that you will achieve the best and it will be better than you can ever imagine. Put a rainbow in your heart and carry it all the way to the end with a smile and a skip in your step.

Just don't expect it to be EASY.

I don't write about my bad experiences to scare you. I write about them to educate you. When I say my thinner hair on top was giving me away, I hope that people read that and consider their own hair and how to avoid that mistake. When I write about being directed past two ladies rooms to the "family" restroom up on the next floor, I'm hoping that you understand that it happens to ALL of us and not just you. I don't want transitioners to think that they alone are getting clocked left and right. Or they alone are being watched like a hawk when there are kids around. I write about my experiences because a lot of bad stuff DOES happen, but that does NOT mean that everything is awful and you should steel yourself for the worst humankind has to offer. I write because I want you to think that if I can do it, than so can you.

There are a ton of things I would do different if I could start over, but the best I can do is help others try to avoid my mistakes.

[Saffron]

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what to make of such transwomen who cannot imagine being an ordinary woman . . .

I would pay all the money in the world just to be an ordinary woman, nothing less, nothing more... :sad:

[Inna]

Hon.....once you would get there, and settle, for a while it would be awesome and great, but soon enough awesome would wear off and dynamite would be sought after. After all, progress is an intrinsic part of life, to strive for greater weather blind pursuit or justified greatness, it all is just one big growth. I believe it is safe to say that every girl dreams of being a princess, I know cause I did too, but the realities of life bring us down from the clouds to the dusty realities of living. Well, time came when I had enough, and I set out on the most impossible journey there was, first to just be the girl I knew I was. Just that seemed impossible on its own. Then when I got there, I wanted to be an attractive girl as well, because the universe owed me that much!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have missed out on the whole life, so there would be no more missing out on anything else!!!!

Guess what??? I have asked, and I have received, it is that simple! Except when you do ask be prepared to give everything you've got to get it, cause it ain't cheap, :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i've used that term before Quad... in hindsight i'd probably take it back reading what melissa is saying...you go melissa!!!


ISo i think I'll change my version just say this is really hard, but its actually very doable! if i can do it, you can do it..that's for sure..

[Michelle.M]

To summarise, prepare for and expect the worst, hope for the best.


Thanks for the props Quad, but I totally disagree with the prepare for the worst sentiment.

Well, to each her own! My personal philosophy is "EXPECT the best and prepare for the worst." This was borne from my years as an Army ops officer having to plan and execute overseas operations. Every contingency must be planned for if one desires success. And you know what? As many times as I prepared for the worst it never came! But the process taught me so much about getting the big picture, and I still manage my transition, and even my life, with that same philosophy.

And I suppose that brings up yet one more fine point - find your own path to transition and get on it! Your transition is as unique as you are, and although others can give you tips and insight ultimately you must make your own decisions. But make them! And although you will stumble at times it will all work out if you hang in there and don't let setbacks knock you down for the count.

[morgan51]

I am at the point of just going full time name change underway out and about as me 24/7. I get all the whispers and stares and other derisions that any other transwoman gets. I'm growing a thicker skin and am comfortable just knowing I'm being true to meself. It does get better? please keep telling me it does. I have hell telling people my name over and over and correcting them when they forget or use my old name on purpose. I am doing the same job I did before for pertty much the same people in the same town I go to the grocery store or the supply house or the tire store as Morgan not Hal and I'm at least tolerated for the most part. Passing? not likely. Happy definately. My family can't accept me for the most part. my wife and myself separated and I'm thankfull for her friendship. I've been kicked out of a bible study I'd gone to for 7 years. That seemed really hard as I thought I knew them well and trusted them. Life is better just different than I would have thought. There is no way anyone could have told me what I would be up against untill I was in it. I'm sure its a little different for each but as Melissa said too we all go thru the same things.

[Badtranny]

Melissa said too we all go thru the same things.

Right and we owe it to each other to talk about the hard parts. This part of the forum should be distinguished from the other by the depictions of hard lessons rather than glowing reports of "passing". I have learned so much in the last three years and much of it was stuff I didn't even want to learn. I remember caring much more about passing back in 2010, now I'm happy to just be left the F alone. I really have no idea anymore if I get read, (unless I actually HEAR the whispers) it is nowhere near the concern that it once was. Becoming a woman to the world is a long process that takes a hell of a lot more than makeup and panties. I love reading the CD'rs crowing about their outings and how they passed so well, and I actually feel envious of their perspective. Three years of transition will bend your enthusiasm into an unrecognizable shape.

Morgan, I feel you on the wrong name deal. I still get the he's and the him's as well as the Bill's a lot more frequently than I would care to. The only remedy is time. ...and pepper spray.

[Michelle.M]

I get all the whispers and stares and other derisions that any other transwoman gets. I'm growing a thicker skin and am comfortable just knowing I'm being true to meself. It does get better? please keep telling me it does.

Morgan, when they use the word "courageous" to describe girls in transition you are the one that will come to my mind!

Yes, it gets better, and you'll find that out sooner than most because YOU are already making it better for yourself by adopting a healthy attitude about life, about transition and about yourself.


My family can't accept me for the most part. my wife and myself separated and I'm thankfull for her friendship. I've been kicked out of a bible study I'd gone to for 7 years. That seemed really hard as I thought I knew them well and trusted them.

I am one of the fortunate ones in that my son and my brother both accept me. I don't really care about anyone else, but their understanding has made this a truly wonderful year for me and their love has made it possible for me to give the mental finger to the others. For those of us who deal with rejection there is no hurt quite like that.

Thank God you were thrown out of that bible study. Real christians don't do that. Consider it a message from God that you were planted in the wrong garden and some other group is dying to have you with them. This I know from experience.


Life is better just different than I would have thought. There is no way anyone could have told me what I would be up against untill I was in it.

Well, that's it then! By realizing that you've got the hard part behind you, now just get on with tackling everyday life and enjoy your new future with all of the difficulties and challenges it brings.


Morgan, I feel you on the wrong name deal. I still get the he's and the him's as well as the Bill's a lot more frequently than I would care to. The only remedy is time. ...and pepper spray.

Or an electric cattle prod. But pepper spray fits into your purse better.

[stefan37]

I want to thank Melissa for posting this thread and want to thank all of you that have are going through this process for exposing the challenges we will face as we travel this road. Hormones have been a blessing for me and confirmed the fact they were needed by my brain. I am in the best possible and mental shape ever in my entire life. The positive effects they have had confirm I am traveling in the right direction.
I have no illusions about my passibility in the short term. At my age T has done it's work and will take a long time and surgical intervention and even then I am not to confident. My budget is limited and electro is taking forever and my funds are depleting rapidly. Due to events that have occurred in the past few years I am well past caring what strangers, business clients, employees, friends and even some family members think about my appearance or demeanor.
Since my decision to transition I have had very few fears but one. The loss of the person I have known for more than 1/2 of my life. My wife is the one thing causing me the greatest anguish and sadness. Knowing that I am responsible for shattering her hopes and dreams of our lives and our plans for the future is heartbreaking. We are now in the process of exploring how we will navigate and resolve this issue. (She knew of my need to crossdress before we married almost 30years ago). Still the decision to transition has rocked her world to say the least.

Reading other member's experiences and the fact they have overcome the difficult challenges that we face gives me hope
that someday I will be able to experience the same and enjoy inner peace even though I may experience devastating loss and pain.
Again I want to thank all of you that have shared the difficult challenges you have had to endure and conquer.

[kathtx]

Thanks to badtranny for starting this thread, and to the contributors. If anyone's hurt by the dose of reality, well, the pain is a sign you needed the dose.


Many that I speak to regularly have stated over and over again, transition is a deadly serious thing to do. They say if you don't have to transition and you actually do you are one of the biggest fools on the planet.

DON'T TRANSITION UNLESS YOU HAVE TO needs to be said over and over again.


One of my transitioned non-op friends sums it up when she says that most will never transition. They will think about, they will talk about and they will lie to themselves in order to believe that they are actually making progress when in reality they are still part time five years later slogging their butts around at gender conferences.

I think the key phrase here is "lie to themselves". There's nothing wrong in itself with being part-time as long as one owns the choice and lives life in the moment, not in some fantasy transition that's always a year or two in the future.

For me, transition progress stopped because my wife developed health problems that had to take priority over anything else. Over a decade later the health problems are gone but I've never gotten "back on track" to transition, and most likely never will. Somewhere along the line I realized that I don't *need* to transition. I'm lucky: I've got a wife who loves me as her wife no matter the anatomy, I've got friends who're cool with the gender ambiguity, and though to much of the day-to-day outside world I'm seen as male, so what? Living being seen as an outward male much of the time sucks, and living *all* of the time with mind-body dissonance sucks, but that's the curve life threw me. It sucks, but it could be worse.

A good word I learned from a Buddhist friend (himself a non-transitioned FTM) is equanimity. There's a hell of a lot of pain in life, not all of it having to to with gender dysphoria, and when we can't make it go away we have to learn to live well in the presence of pain. My one sentence summary of badtranny's whole thread is this: transition or not, life ain't gonna be a bed of roses.

[Nicole Erin]

Oh good God, what is the big deal about living as a woman anyways?

Let me tell you something - I pass sporadically, I live it day to day, present as a woman at work, and everyone who associates with me knows my gender status. Strangers who might nudge or laugh - I don't give a damn. There is not room in my psyche or schedule to care.
Once in a while it IS annoying to be called "sir" and all that but one just has to get over it.

My daily life? Let's see - well right now I am kind of obsessed with fixing things around the house (mainly digging deep into some electrical issues), I drag my ass to the gym when the mood hits, I work my job that is as exciting as a bowl taint hair clippings, I hang with friends now and then, I pay bills, make sure I have enough cancer sticks...

No where do I sit around and obsess over passing or any of that silly junk.

Yes it is hard to get to this point but after a time, you just kind of quit thinking about it. I really wonder if those TS who still obsess over all this junk are needing something else, something besides just "wanting to be a woman".
I wasn't able to do a lot with my looks, there is nothing I can do about my build, so basically I am as far as I can really go given my build and lack of funds. So I decided to move on to other things.

LAdies lemme ask you this - suppose one day you woke up as this perfectly passable woman and all that crap, say you even became a GG - do you honestly think life would be so much more exciting? About the only excitement that would come is when the CDs on this forum would cheer each time you farted.

Look, if you cannot be happy with what you have, nothing is gonna make it better. Your problems and insecurities are not gonna vanish just cause you get a new vajayjay. No, then you will find something else to say "If only". Anytime "there" becomes "here", you will just find a new "there" to wish for.

The point is, don't run out of cigarettes. I have done that and it really sucks.

[ameliabee]

Does age make a difference? For instance, do those who transition at puberty or even in their early 20s have it easier?


I suspect that it does I was speaking directly from my experience as a late transitioner and to other people considering a later transition. Transitioning young admittedly changes everything in regard to my premise.


I'm not sure about that, at that age you have to deal with your parents and school or college can be a hell. Of course HRT effects would surely be better, but it didn't change the months or years during transition.

So, yeah, transitioned at 20, and because I waited to go full-time until I was passing >99%, I really never had the whole issue of looking visibly trans.

Parents were the big issue. I just needed to be independent from them in order to go through with it, because my folks would have tried to stop me if they had the chance.

I can still go on and on about facing bullshit though. Grad school and being a teenage girl hormonally do not mix, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Still upset that I had to resort to taking out student loans to afford SRS, but it makes more long-term financial sense to do it now and get on with life.

[kathtx]

Look, if you cannot be happy with what you have, nothing is gonna make it better. Your problems and insecurities are not gonna vanish just cause you get a new vajayjay. No, then you will find something else to say "If only". Anytime "there" becomes "here", you will just find a new "there" to wish for.

Exactly [plus extra characters to lengthen the message]

[Badtranny]

The point is, don't run out of cigarettes. I have done that and it really sucks.

I want everybody to know that I love this chick!

..omg not in THAT way. Sheesh, I'm not a lesbo or nothin' ;-)

[Jorja]

Being a woman is easy. Convincing others is the hard part.

[Saffron]

I don't care about others as long as they leave me in peace.

And I think the focus shouldn't be to be a woman but simply to be yourself.

Transition is only a way to fix a problem, it shouldn't be your main goal in life.

[Michelle.M]

Saffron, well said and succinctly stated! You've hit the nail right on the head.

[Lorileah]

Oh good God, what is the big deal about living as a woman anyways? You get in free on ladies night? :idontknow:



Once in a while it IS annoying to be called "sir" and all that but one just has to get over it. or "him" even by friends. Yeah the world does not stop. And since I don't try and squeak when I talk, those dang drive through cashiers always say "sir" You would think they would KNOW better.


LAdies lemme ask you this - suppose one day you woke up as this perfectly passable woman and all that crap, say you even became a GG - do you honestly think life would be so much more exciting? Nope...maybe uh...busier:naughty :D


Look, if you cannot be happy with what you have, nothing is gonna make it better. Your problems and insecurities are not gonna vanish just cause you get a new vajayjay. No, then you will find something else to say "If only". Anytime "there" becomes "here", you will just find a new "there" to wish for. dang, the magic organ won't save me? :heehee:Thus, one reason I don't plan on getting surgery at my age. It would be like putting paint on an old barn. It looks nice but the building is still sagging. There are some here who don't understand that. Yeah, it is pretty and all but how long until I don't even notice it? I am extremely happy, usually, sometimes, often with my life right now. The major issue is getting others to quit trying to "make it better" when I like what I have.:smug:

[Nicole Erin]

You get in free on ladies night? :idontknow:

Yes I could if I wanted to go to some club or bar on "ladies" night.
Even if not, no big deal. I have yet to see a "lady" in a bar or club. Drunk or obnoxious "chicks" maybe.
Kind of like how one never sees a "gentleman" in a "gentleman's" club.

[Raquel June]

Melissa, I really don't see why I have to prove myself to you by posting photos - I've had photos on here before, and only recently deleted them, because I was actually getting fed up with this place and considered stopping posting,

It would give people a little more hope to read a thread like this and see that it is in fact pretty easy for some people. But you don't want to do that. You just want to criticize Melissa. So you're making her look right and you're making yourself look silly.

Sure, you don't have to prove yourself, but saying how passable you are then making excuses and refusing to even post a couple of your hand-picked best-case-scenario pics makes you sound like you're another trans girl in denial. And the bizarre tangent about "thought police" you switched to makes you sound insane.




I don't disagree with many of the points that other people have already made. However, I do want to interject a message that doesn't get made enough in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with being TG or TS. When TG and TS people start acting like this is true, maybe everyone else will start to believe it too.

I agree, and it's a point I often try to make myself. Mostly in the context of being offended that for many their goal is to transition and leave the support structure that helped them. Regardless, nobody passes all the time, so you're in a much better place mentally if you can accept your trans-ness.

But, we do have to understand that being an out-and-proud martyr is not for everyone. In the end, I want to be seen as a woman and respected, not seen as a gay guy in a dress and tolerated.

It's an interesting place to be at. Few of us would ever pass up a magical chance to be more "real" in any way, whether that was to be able to carry a child or just a more natural body. I would abandon being trans in a heartbeat. But none of us should be ashamed of being trans. I'm proud to be associated with the all the strength of my LGBT family. And I'll always hang out with my friends in the community any chance I get.

[kellycan27]

Exactly [plus extra characters to lengthen the message]

Sounds like what you and Nicole are are saying that there is no value to having SRS in order to help stem the issues of GID by having one's body congruent with their mind? Sorry, (Nicole), but this sounds more like sour grapes than anything else. Kind of like.. I have never heard anyone who can pass say that passing is overated, or people with money say that money in not important. :heehee:

[Bree-asaurus]

But, we do have to understand that being an out-and-proud martyr is not for everyone. In the end, I want to be seen as a woman and respected, not seen as a gay guy in a dress and tolerated.

I have HUGE respect for those of us who go out and show the world that they are trans and normal like everyone else every day of their lives, whether they choose to or have to. It's those people who really push society forward. I think we all want to live normal, quiet lives. Some of us choose not to for the sake of progress and some of us can't because we don't pass well enough.

I don't deliberately hide who I am, but I also don't go out of my way to show it. I want to be a part of progress, but I also want to just live my life and not be bothered because I happen to be trans. Where I go from here, I don't know, but I help where I can for now, and that's usually by being there for other trans people who need support. I'm also starting to help out by talking with the local medical community as they are reaching out, wanting to know more about us and our experiences with doctors, clinics and hospitals.

[Rianna Humble]

So you're making her look right and you're making yourself look silly.
...
makes you sound insane.

I get really uncomfortable when I read another member putting someone down as "silly" and "insane" as a cop-out from reasoned debate.

Surely we must be able to string together one or two cogent arguments without resorting to ad-hominem attacks just because someone doesn't conform to what you want them to say.

[angpai30]

I have written so many replies to this thread, but just haven't been able to come up with something constructive to say. I agree that many of us tend to doze off and dream away on a white cloud hoping that one day everything will be in our grasp. Why bicker about it? we aren't getting any further to our goals of being accepted by bickering about the usefulness of either being or not being trans. If this thread constituted a solution to any sort of problem that the trans community may have other than pointing out the fact of the white cloud I would think that this was really an intelligent conversation. One in which I could enjoy participating in, but I can't enjoy participating in this thread because I feel that it is trannies bagging on trannies for doing the same exact thing that they are just maybe a little differently and probably stuck on the white cloud longer because reality hasn't slapped them in the face yet. You can't change a person by arguing with them or their own beliefs, but we all together can influence a positive solution if there is one we will find it if we only would work together. One thing I find different about women and trans is that women are willing to work together to accomplish even the tiniest goal, but trans women tend to fight about what is right and what is wrong and who to blame for their misfortune. If we truly believe ourselves to be women IMO we would start doing what GG's do; work together to accomplish even the tinniest goal and quit trying to bring each other down.

Angela

[Badtranny]

If we truly believe ourselves to be women IMO we would start doing what GG's do; work together to accomplish even the tinniest goal and quit trying to bring each other down.

Well Angela, I don't live my life based on "what GG's do". GG's are not all that impressive to me by simple virtue of them being born as women. I love my girls but just being born a woman ain't enough to get into my club if you know what I mean. There is nothing special about women, and since I'm not even sexually attracted to them, the almighty vajeen holds no power over me. ;-)

No if you want to be in "my show" you need to be a witty, brave and hyper intelligent chick, and at LEAST 12 of the broads in this thread are people I consider actual friends. Forum friends some of them but friends nonetheless. I respect them and follow their posts because I find them interesting. I feel pretty comfortable in saying that all 12 of them would say the same about me. We are compatriots, fellow travelers, even family, as it were so what you characterize as bickering, I call a lively discussion.

The TS girls generally have a lot more in common than the CD girls do. Almost every girl in this thread is actually transitioning or has transitioned so that puts us all in a pretty tiny group comparatively. because we are all going through the same thing, most of us will have similar feelings about any given topic on transition. Since transition is such an emotional undertaking, there will likely be plenty of conversations that have emotional undertones. We disagree on stuff sometimes. So what? This group is by and large a pretty tough bunch so I find your call for "working together" to be a bit cloying and definitely out of place on this particular thread.

If you can't have pointed discussions in a discussion forum, then where? Nobody uses Usenet anymore. :-(

[ReineD]

Angela, I think that Misty tried to do just that ... be realistic about what to expect and I can't think of anything that is kinder, in the long run, than the truth. In fact, this is what has formed the basis of my chosen friendships with women, all my life. I want a friend who will tell me what she thinks, and who will be willing to point out to me something that I may not be able to see because I am mired in the middle of a difficult situation. The last thing I want is a friend who will say, "Yes dear, you're right and all the people who are causing you grief are wrong". How will I grow if I surround myself with sycophants?

[Bree-asaurus]

Well Angela, I don't live my life based on "what GG's do". GG's are not all that impressive to me by simple virtue of them being born as women. I love my girls but just being born a woman ain't enough to get into my club if you know what I mean. There is nothing special about women, and since I'm not even sexually attracted to them, the almighty vajeen holds no power over me. ;-)

Yeah. Who was it that said "Women aren't women anymore" recently? Oh yeah! A WOMAN! Those GG's sure know how to stick together :P All humans are flawed. Being a GG, GM, FTM, MTF, OMG, LOL, WTF doesn't mean squat!

[kathtx]

Sounds like what you and Nicole are are saying that there is no value to having SRS in order to help stem the issues of GID by having one's body congruent with their mind?

I can't speak for Nicole, but as for me that's not quite what I'm trying to say. Let me try to summarize my points more clearly.

First: anyone contemplating SRS (or any other step towards transition) needs to think honestly about what problems it will and will not solve. Transition with SRS or just hormones or nothing at all, or pass or not, full-time or part-time, whatever, we need to learn to live well and to deal with problems as they come instead of living in "if only" fantasies.

Second: a common theme around here is that when we come to terms with the realization we're TS, we immediately start thinking of SRS and full-time transition as The Goal. I've been there, thought that way. For some of us, transition is certainly the right path, but maybe not for all of us. Some talk about feeling it was a choice between transition and suicide, and I've been there, but I don't feel that way now. Does that mean I'm not "really" TS, that I'm not gender dysphoric? Hell, I don't know. Maybe it means I'm less gender dysphoric than you or others, or just that the circumstances of my life are such that it feels possible for me to muddle through without full-time transition. I can imagine changes in my circumstances that might make it feel more imperative to transition. For instance, were I single I'd be totally discouraged by the prospects of finding another gay woman to date without transitioning (and just to be clear, even with transition I'd not expect women to be throwing themselves at me because of my irresistible beauty. I'd just be another middle-aged lesbian, but a middle-aged lesbian with body and mind aligned better than now.). But as things are now, things are OK without transition. Not perfect, but livable. We each need to figure out what degree of transition works for each of us as individuals.

[kellycan27]

I can't speak for Nicole, but as for me that's not quite what I'm trying to say. Let me try to summarize my points more clearly.

First: anyone contemplating SRS (or any other step towards transition) needs to think honestly about what problems it will and will not solve. Transition with SRS or just hormones or nothing at all, or pass or not, full-time or part-time, whatever, we need to learn to live well and to deal with problems as they come instead of living in "if only" fantasies.

Second: a common theme around here is that when we come to terms with the realization we're TS, we immediately start thinking of SRS and full-time transition as The Goal. I've been there, thought that way. For some of us, transition is certainly the right path, but maybe not for all of us. Some talk about feeling it was a choice between transition and suicide, and I've been there, but I don't feel that way now. Does that mean I'm not "really" TS, that I'm not gender dysphoric? Hell, I don't know. Maybe it means I'm less gender dysphoric than you or others, or just that the circumstances of my life are such that it feels possible for me to muddle through without full-time transition. I can imagine changes in my circumstances that might make it feel more imperative to transition. For instance, were I single I'd be totally discouraged by the prospects of finding another gay woman to date without transitioning (and just to be clear, even with transition I'd not expect women to be throwing themselves at me because of my irresistible beauty. I'd just be another middle-aged lesbian, but a middle-aged lesbian with body and mind aligned better than now.). But as things are now, things are OK without transition. Not perfect, but livable. We each need to figure out what degree of transition works for each of us as individuals.

Sorry .. I guess that when you said "exactly" I took it to mean that you agreed with Nicole. I have no qualms with someone who transitions to what ever degree that works for them, I just disagree when someone decides that other people should just "suck it up" because they feel the need to transition to a different degree... this is in essence what nicole is saying, and you agreed.."exactly"

[Rianna Humble]

a common theme around here is that when we come to terms with the realization we're TS, we immediately start thinking of SRS and full-time transition as The Goal.

I must read a different version of this forum to you and the others who accuse us of pushing transition and GCS as the only options because I have not seen any of the most regular contributors say that ever.

Neither transition nor GCS is commonly spoken of as "The Goal", but they are often spoken of as essential steps for those who can't avoid transition and who seek congruity between body and being.

Neither can I agree when you talk about "degrees of transition" since to me that term makes no sense - transition takes you on a path from one state of being towards another. Those of us who post regularly here and either are in transition (e.g. me) or have transitioned frequently advise people not to embark upon transition unless they absolutely need to.

Various regimes short of transition can be and are used by people who for whatever reason don't need to transition but do need to contain their Gender Dysphoria, and we regularly encourage members who are considering such a path.


Some talk about feeling it was a choice between transition and suicide, and I've been there, but I don't feel that way now.
I'm glad you found a third option, but for many of us that third option just was not there. It was not there for me, but I decided there was more future in living than in dying. Still and withall, I do not encourage someone to rush headlong into transition unless they need to.

[Nicole Erin]

I just disagree when someone decides that other people should just "suck it up" because they feel the need to transition to a different degree... this is in essence what nicole is saying, and you agreed.."exactly"

We do as much as we can but if someone say like me doesn't have the funds for surgeries or whatever, there is no use sitting around worrying about it.

BadTranny - with us Ts having more in common than the CD's, that I disagree on. How many threads in the CD section does one see where they bicker non-stop about who the REAL CDs are or how someone is better off cause they CD full time instead of just wear panties to work?

Being a "True TS". I guess I am out of that category cause i don't sit around worrying about my "goods" or run home crying when I get called "sir".

For those blessed enough to afford SRS or whatever, I wonder then - if you could NOT afford it and had to get thru life and transition best you could the way some of us do, how would you fare? Would you be able to STILL walk tall and proud and say "This is who I am, take it or leave it"?
I think a lot of TS out there never really needed an orchi to begin with.

OH and about The Goal - how about if people set a goal to live their lives? I set that as MY goal after divorce and it is working out well

[kathtx]

Sorry .. I guess that when you said "exactly" I took it to mean that you agreed with Nicole. I have no qualms with someone who transitions to what ever degree that works for them, I just disagree when someone decides that other people should just "suck it up" because they feel the need to transition to a different degree... this is in essence what nicole is saying, and you agreed.."exactly"

I guess I didn't (and still don't) read Nicole's final paragraph as "suck it up," but as "don't expect transition to be a silver bullet to fix everything".


I must read a different version of this forum to you and the others who accuse us of pushing transition and GCS as the only options because I have not seen any of the most regular contributors say that ever.

Not accusing anyone of pushing transition, and I agree it's not pushed by the regulars. In fact, quite the opposite, since I thanked the OP for providing a reality check on transition. Here's how I read the discussion:

[various full time post-transition people like yourself]: transition won't solve all your problems, and post-transition life won't be a cakewalk.
[me]: Yay for what they just said. And if you find yourself hesitating, that's OK. Some of us get by and live with gender dysphoria without transitioning.

My posts were meant for those who are in the early stage of "OMG I realize I'm not just a CD, I'm TS and I've got to start transitioning right now."

It's kind of surreal to be getting criticized for disagreeing with you when I am in fact agreeing, but hey, that's the internet.


Neither can I agree when you talk about "degrees of transition" since to me that term makes no sense - transition takes you on a path from one state of being towards another.

Here's where I do disagree with you. Since there are a number of steps in transition (hair removal, hormones, SRS) and modes of living (part-time & out to some, full-time & out to all) and not everyone does all these steps, I think it makes perfect sense to talk about degrees of transition. Someone who intentionally *stops* at hormones is in a different stage than someone who proceeds to SRS, who is in a different stage from someone who lives outwardly in one gender at home and with friends but in another gender at work.


Those of us who post regularly here and either are in transition (e.g. me) or have transitioned frequently advise people not to embark upon transition unless they absolutely need to.

I hope it's clear that I'm aware of that, and I thank you for that.


I'm glad you found a third option, but for many of us that third option just was not there. It was not there for me, but I decided there was more future in living than in dying. Still and withall, I do not encourage someone to rush headlong into transition unless they need to.
Thanks. And I'm glad you were able to transition, and I hope you know that my explaining that I could find a third way was not at all meant to say that you could have/should have found such a path yourself. I'm just trying to say that we each need to find our own way, and we won't all go the same way. And that statement isn't meant as criticism of those who fully transition, but reassurance for those who are wondering "I'm TS, what the hell do I do now?"

[Pamela Kay]

I cannot express the respect and admiration I feel for my friends and fellow transitioners on this site.

I came here over a year ago stressed and afraid of what was happening to me and how it would affect my life. I lurked for a long time before posting and then didn't join the Safe Haven section until I was sure I was going to transition. The help and advice I received here has given me the knowledge and courage I needed to be myself and to move forward. The advice to only transition if you have to is some of the most sound advice you will ever hear. Everyone says to be prepared to loose everything if you transition and that is sound advice. I haven't lost everything and everyone and my transtion both at home and at work has gone better than I could have expected even though there has been loss. Most of the money and possesions I had aquired over the last 30 years have been traded to pay for FFS and settle with my soon to be ex-wife. We are still friends and my son has just started to trade emails with me from time to time.

To quote a friend I was so deep in the closet that I didn't know I was in the closet. Transition makes you reexamine who you are and what you believe. I've only been full time for 7 weeks so far but I'm still wrestling with some major issues that I had always thought I was sure about. You live your life a certain way for so long then come to the realization that you are transexual and you start looking at other feelings and beliefs that you had never questioned with an open mind. If I was wrong about that aspect of who I am then what else have I been wrong about? It also seems that people that have known and respected you all your life think that your morals and ethics get tossed out the window when you transition and even if you do gain some back it will never be the same.

Transition may have given me peace in some parts of my life but it has also raised even more questions to think about and find answers for. As if learning to be a woman wasn't enough.

We all have to travel the path of transition that works best for us. I guess you could say it's the most rewarding trip through HELL you will ever take!

I don't think it makes much difference if it's tranwomen or GG's, we all have bad days and problems with each other from time to time. I think it's more personalities than whether you are male, female, trans, or whatever. I have received a ton of help from GG's and a lot of support from my trans friends as well, both at home and here. Most guy's I know though are accepting at best and ignore you more likely than not.

[Jorja]

It also seems that people that have known and respected you all your life think that your morals and ethics get tossed out the window when you transition and even if you do gain some back it will never be the same.

Pam, you are only 7 weeks into full time. I am 25 years into full time. Please understand it takes time, work from both sides, and understanding to regain lost relationships. I lost everyone I knew prior to transition. Today, all but one of those people are back in my life. You are right, those relationships can never be the same. This is because you are a different person. Allow me to rephrase that. You are a new person to them. There are different dynamics to the new relationship. I have found most of my relationships to be even better now than they ever were. Yes, there will be a few who will not come around. Maybe they are just not worth associating with. That is life.

[Nicole Erin]

Yeah Pam, there are gonna be some weird adjustments at first. You tend to get "settled in" though and all is well.

[Rianna Humble]

Not accusing anyone of pushing transition, and I agree it's not pushed by the regulars. In fact, quite the opposite, since I thanked the OP for providing a reality check on transition.

I apologise for misinterpreting your words. Somehow I missed reading your first post in this thread :sad:

That said, although you didn't say what I wrongly thought you were saying, there are too many who do. It is fairly easy to find where just about all of the current regular TS contributors have expressed support for people in a similar situation to yours where AIUI you had to put the needs of your wife above your own and in doing so managed to find a way to contain your gender dysphoria.

[cdona20]

I feel really bad for all the negativity in this thread. I'm sorry the transition for some of you has been so rocky. I have been living 24/7 for 10 months now and on HRT for 1 month. And even before living 24/7 I have practiced my feminine voice and walk for a year in preparation for living my life the way I wanted. It helped that I moved from one coast of the US to the other on the day I started going full time. It also helped That for a year and a half prior to that I was able to grow my hair long and have it be socially acceptable due to my age. The only people who know I'm trans are my fiancee, my endocrinologist and the HR manager at my place of employment. By the time I get a new job I'll have had my legal name changed and the gender flag on my ID changed to female.

At no point in the past months have I ever felt like a "tranny". I have not had a single incident where my status as transgendered has been revealed in public. The only comments I have received from others who don't know about me are either on how pretty I look (including an offer from a fashion design student to model for her at a runway show) or how someone loves my voice. My fiancee (who is significantly older than me) once had someone comment to her about how charming her "daughter" was.

So for the record, for some of us it is as easy as the hype makes it out to be. Though I'm sure that most for whom transition is easy do feel fortunate and grateful for the opportunities and gifts bestowed upon them by fate.

[stefan37]

cdona , I am glad your transition has gone so smoothly with no difficulties. That said I don't think the tone of this thread is negative , but points out the real challenges most of us will experience as we transition. You have transitioned at a young age before investing in a traditional male life. I do not know your age but would bet I have at least 2 1.2 decades on you.
I have children not much younger than you, I have a business, a wife of 29 years and will transition in place of work, friends and business clients. I will not be able to hide what I am going through. This thread has shown that transition especially in advanced year is serious business and real losses and pain are the result. That does not mean that in the long term it will not be worth it. I believe all those that have transitioned and have incurred that pain and those losses will say that in the end it was worth it. I am going through a period now where my marriage may or may not survive. To reconfigure a relationship with a person I have been so close to for over 35 years is devastating. The sadness I feel when I think that I am responsible for crushing the dreams and hopes my spouse had for our future has no bottom. The gut wrenching part is I feel exhilarated at the same time because I am feeling much more normal and fell I have a reason to live.

To sum up my thoughts I believe there has been some negativity but that has come form personalities clashing. The discussion of the difficulties and challenges we face as we transition at an older age after T has done its work and the aging process has taken hold along with the investment of a traditional male life has enormous value to anyone contemplating such a radical life changing experience. I found this thread to be a great resource and I am very glad the personality clashes has not caused it to get locked as so many valuable discussions do .

[Badtranny]

So for the record, for some of us it is as easy as the hype makes it out to be.

Good for you. Moving to where no one knew the old you is a HUGE advantage, and being naturally pretty is like winning the genetic lottery.

This thread is hardly negative. This thread is a positive step toward mental health for people that are struggling. Your post only underscores my point that we need to talk about the hard times because the occasional glowing report from the field needs to be balanced with all of the OTHER reports that show a much different picture.

It would be lovely to live in a world where no one knew my old name, but I chose to face it down rather than move. You pass as a beautiful young woman who is new in town, and I pass as "that's Melissa who used to be Bill and everybody's really cool with that".

[Saffron]

I wouldn't mistake being negative with being realistic, usually a TS will have problems during transition.

I wish all of us could have a smooth transition just like cdona.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i wish all of us could be 25 years old again and be naturally feminine in appearance..

i'm happy for people that just slip easily into a woman's role in life....

saying "hey my transition was easy" is tone deaf in the context of this thread..it misunderstands the OP

[kimdl93]

I know this thread is directed at individuals who either have or are contemplating transition to full time. I have to say that I think its really important information for those contemplating transition, particularly those who may be a little unrealistic in their expectations. Certainly, transition can be easier for some than for others. And as we've witnessed, there can be major social, economic and physical challenges. The more realistic an individual is, the more likely they will be prepared to deal with problems as they come along. Think of it as risk management.

[angpai30]

Well Angela, I find your call for "working together" to be a bit cloying and definitely out of place on this particular thread.

If you can't have pointed discussions in a discussion forum, then where? Nobody uses Usenet anymore. :-(

Well first of all my comment wasn't out of place because I felt as I read through this thread that it was not a discussion or even a debate on the actual topic. But the thread as taken a turn and is now more on topic and so I do disagree about my statement being cloying and out of place on this particular thread.


Angela, I think that Misty tried to do just that ... be realistic about what to expect and I can't think of anything that is kinder, in the long run, than the truth. In fact, this is what has formed the basis of my chosen friendships with women, all my life. I want a friend who will tell me what she thinks, and who will be willing to point out to me something that I may not be able to see because I am mired in the middle of a difficult situation. The last thing I want is a friend who will say, "Yes dear, you're right and all the people who are causing you grief are wrong". How will I grow if I surround myself with sycophants?

I agree Reine and this is what the topic of this forum is about and I do compliment BadTranny for starting it because she is only trying to help our community to understand that being on that white cloud is harmful to us all. Not just to the person who is there, but to EVERYONE who is transitioning, which is why I brought the working together into the discussion. Even though most of us on this thread may have different opinions on the subject we all mostly do agree that one on the white cloud is oblivious to reality and because they are oblivious to reality they tend to think that the world will bow down to them when they transition. I have seen recently several attacks from trannies beating on someone because they called them a boy or said something derogatory. These kind of actions reflect on us all and are due to the white cloud syndrome.
You are right that I probably should have kept the "Being a Woman" out of the conversation, lol!! But, even with that said it still held some meaning and value to me because if it doesn't mean anything then why are we all transitioning? All who have posted as BadTranny stated "Have or Are" transitioning from MTF are transitioning to be women. So if there is nothing special about women then why is this discussion even taking place because we all consider ourselves "women". We may not be GG's, but women none the less.
Being a trans "Woman" is no cake calk and I have already been a witness to this several times now during my 6 months of HRT and have had some good and some bad reactions to it. I tend to follow along the friend guidelines that Reine pointed out that she wants among her friends and I tend to do that with mine all the time. The other day I pointed out to a GG friend of mine that her hair was really fried and inquired about what she was doing with her hair to make it look that way. I only wanted to help her fix her hair, but she took offense to it just because I tried to help and she hated the fact that I would even point something like that out. It really doesn't help her image in fact in makes her look really, really sick and she has pale skin. I have also heard several rumors from friends that people I work with are all thinking of trying to get me fired just because I'm transitioning and they don't like that I'm allowed to come to work as a woman. People don't like me just because I'm honest and straightforward about anything and everything that they ask me. But then I have made a lot of good friends that way and hope to make some more good friends to help me in this difficult journey.
Depression has hit me several times during my transition, but to be honest it only lasts about 10 minutes and then boom I'm back... I don't take any anti depressants because I don't find them useful because I normally bounce back fairly quickly from depression because my thought process happens and normally at the end I say to myself "why am I depressed again? Oh, That's stupid and not really worth being depressed about." I haven't had any real major depression, but depression does hit from time to time not often.
I was crying in the break room a few days ago because depression had hit and a friend of mine walks in and asks why I'm crying. I told her and she being a good friend said "Really?" that's what you are crying over? Why are you crying about people hating you and giving you the cold shoulder because they don't like you? If you are going to get anywhere you are going to have to toughen up girl.". What really threw me off guard was what she said after that and it cheered me up. "People will always hate you for being you, because there is something about you that they want and you have that they can't have; so they hate you for that and will not stop hating you now and in some cases "Never". Boy do I love good friends!!
I'm not quite sure how on topic I am so forgive me if I'm not.

Angela

[famousunknown]

So for the record, for some of us it is as easy as the hype makes it out to be. Though I'm sure that most for whom transition is easy do feel fortunate and grateful for the opportunities and gifts bestowed upon them by fate.

See? There's always some beautiful young thing who comes along and pees on the pumps of the road worn full time trannies. This is the life everyone wants yet can never have. This girl is the exception to the rule.

[Pamela Kay]

I don't want everyone to think there aren't good things happening too.

Today was my first day back in the classroom as myself. Did a two hour presentation in front of 28 people who had seen me at least two or more times as a guy teaching in the same classroom. There were only two or threee that said hello Pam when the class started and I didn't push things, just let it happen when they were comfortable. Talked to one guy yesterday who asked me some questions which I answered and today after my talk I had several questions about my topic and a couple even told me I did a good job.

We'll see what they say on the course evaluation at the end of the week but even with my questionable voice and everyone knowing who I was before I felt pretty good by the end of the day. So there are good times as well as bad but it just seems to be a lot more bad when you begin than good. You have to gain strength from those few good times to see you through the bad until the good outweighs the bad.

I know those good times will out number the bad one day, just trying to be honest and let others know what they may be in for before taking that next big step. I've gained so much from many of those posting in this thread as well as others on this site. I just want to try and pay it forward and do the same for someone else if I can.

[kellycan27]

See? There's always some beautiful young thing who comes along and pees on the pumps of the road worn full time trannies. This is the life everyone wants yet can never have. This girl is the exception to the rule.
10 months full time and a small circle of supporters ...kinda hard for someone to say that their transition has gone smoothly when they have barely begun to transition... Just saying

[famousunknown]

10 months full time and a small circle of supporters ...kinda hard for someone to say that their transition has gone smoothly when they have barely begun to transition... Just saying

So 10 months ain't gonna cut it, huh? RLE is only a year. There are all these unwritten rules to qualify for membership in the full time tranny club, even if one goes against the grain and doesn't happen to look like a tranny. The FTT's are tough, I tell you. Tough.

[kellycan27]

So 10 months ain't gonna cut it, huh? RLE is only a year. There are all these unwritten rules to qualify for membership in the full time tranny club, even if one goes against the grain and doesn't happen to look like a tranny. The FTT's are tough, I tell you. Tough.

I never said that this person didn't qualify as a full time transsexual.. What I am saying is that IMO with her limited experience ( we all have to start somewhere) she has yet to face much adversity. Looking the part and living the part are quite different.... The FTT's as you put it are not trying to be as tough as they are trying to be real. Some of us do speak with some experience behind us.

[Raquel June]

I feel really bad for all the negativity in this thread. I'm sorry the transition for some of you has been so rocky. I have been living 24/7 for 10 months now and on HRT for 1 month. And even before living 24/7 I have practiced my feminine voice and walk for a year in preparation for living my life the way I wanted. It helped that I moved from one coast of the US to the other on the day I started going full time. It also helped That for a year and a half prior to that I was able to grow my hair long and have it be socially acceptable due to my age. The only people who know I'm trans are my fiancee, my endocrinologist and the HR manager at my place of employment. By the time I get a new job I'll have had my legal name changed and the gender flag on my ID changed to female.

At no point in the past months have I ever felt like a "tranny". I have not had a single incident where my status as transgendered has been revealed in public. The only comments I have received from others who don't know about me are either on how pretty I look (including an offer from a fashion design student to model for her at a runway show) or how someone loves my voice. My fiancee (who is significantly older than me) once had someone comment to her about how charming her "daughter" was.

So for the record, for some of us it is as easy as the hype makes it out to be. Though I'm sure that most for whom transition is easy do feel fortunate and grateful for the opportunities and gifts bestowed upon them by fate.


You're beautiful, and it's smart that you worked on the walk/voice which can be the fastest giveaway of someone who has transitioned recently.

But you just don't sound like you're living in reality. The only comments you've gotten from anybody are offers to model and how much they love your voice? Seriously? Who says that? It's either exaggeration on your part or affectation on their part.

I'd put you in the top 3% for passability -- without knowing anything about the important factors like how socially normal you are and how good your voice/walk really are. But anybody with a gaydar (trans-dar?) can spot all of us pretty easily. Judging by the profile pic you've posted, a lot of people could put together the jaw, brow, upper arms, shoulders, and hidden temples of a trans woman. That's just the way it is.

Thankfully most people are totally cool. But when you get home and realize you've been walking around all day with your pants unzipped, that doesn't mean nobody noticed just because nobody said anything hateful.

[DeeDee1974]

My reality goes a little like this. I feel good about myself. There's definitely a conflict between perception and reality. When I go out with my gg female friends I see myself as one of them and imagine everyone in whatever establishment we are in also sees me as one of the girls. Then the reality comes in when the pictures of our night out are shared. Within the group we are stand around the same height and there's not much variation in weight, but I stand out because my body shape is just not that of a woman. It's in these pictures that I know others know.

Another example. Earlier this week I was walking down the street and a younger woman was approaching. She stared at me the whole time. Then after she got past me I could just feel her eyes still on me. I turn around and sure enough she's looking at me like "did I see what I thought I saw"?

That being said, I am comfortable with myself and my differences. Which I think liking ones self helps in the hard times.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

So 10 months ain't gonna cut it, huh? RLE is only a year. There are all these unwritten rules to qualify for membership in the full time tranny club, even if one goes against the grain and doesn't happen to look like a tranny. The FTT's are tough, I tell you. Tough.

everybody can post i guess... pee, pumps and trannies...nice

You have no idea what you are talking about but you need to post anyway.... why is it that all the people that post stuff like this show pictures of feet in their avatars?

[famousunknown]

why is it that all the people that post stuff like this show pictures of feet in their avatars?

Because feet in avatars are always cool.

[Bree-asaurus]

Because feet in avatars are always cool.

yes.... feet are alwa.... wait what?!?!?!?

Anyway, 10 months RLE isn't that long. I've been full-time for 6 months and I know that's just a drop in the bucket. Maybe she's been successful so far, but that's not the point. Some people are lucky. MOST aren't NEARLY that lucky. But membership? Club? I must not have seen the sign. I stopped defining who I am based on other people's perceptions.

[Nicole Erin]

You know what is sad?
Some post on here to put themselves and other TS down by saying, "Well let me tell you what society sees..." or "You are just beginning, you know nothing" and then the comments about "reality" striking when looking at photos of themselves with their GG friends. (whoever posted that)
Know what i read there? She has friends. She has a life. Seems her TS status and "passability" are not keeping her from living life or having good friends.

10 months isn't long enough to know if transition is going smooth? Hmm, 10 months in the real world, living as a woman day to day, passable or not, I imagine by now she has SOME idea of how to live full time in her new gender role.

So many TS sit there and pick themselves apart almost as if they don't want to move beyond their gender status and just live life. I guess some TS always wanting to discredit each other's passability doesn't help.
Let us say hypothetically that the majority of TS passed wonderfully. Then what would they sit there and bitch about?

What do a lot of TS really want?

I live day to day, work my job, hang out with friends, help around the house, do my best to look good. What I don't do is obsess over "someone might stare and have negative thoughts". If some clerk looks at me weird, i simply do not care. It does happen time to time. What doesn't happen is - walking into a restaurant or crowded place and everyone starts staring and whispering. I can just imagine it now - I walk in, the music stops, and comments whispered like "Is that a man or woman... that thing is going to hell... well I never..." and then the waitress comes over really nervous cause of the tranny monster sitting at the table.

Only time I get noticed is when I am showing off my sexy hot tanned shapely legs. *I* wish I could watch my legs walk so gracefully, I would be begging me for a date even though I am a pig and would want just one thing from me. I love me.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Nicole in making a fair point, you are way overstating your case

....while people have commented about the day to day occurences that happen to us and how you must be ready for them..nobody is saying it happens all the time, or that people drop their forks to stare at some of us...i have been whispered at...its no fun..i got used to it..in fact in your next to last paragraph you basically make the exact same point everybody else is making....

not counting worthless posts from people that have no standing or crediblity in this discussion,
the post's that got the negative attention were just not really responsive to melissa's op.. i guess you can say there is some over criticism, but not everybody can just take an F% the world attitude and be totally happy with how they are treated...

Melissa's post was making a tough love point about how expectations and transition usually don't mix..a person doing this should know that day one is not going to be a walk through the park in your sexy sundress on a sunny day..a better way to approach it is that you are gonna have to some hard work to steel yourself for your day to day life...just like you did..

and some people chose this thread as an opportunity to say "hey i pass" ...they got some flak...so what..they were basically off topic posts..

btw
i've had the exact EXACT feeling DeeDee talked about ... i had a great party night with my sisters friends ..they were wonderful...pictures all around...they get posted to face book...my head stood out like a soccer ball...lol...my heart sank...but like i imagine you have done, i've learned that there is nothing to do about that other than to sigh and move on...so i agree with you, and i think Dee Dee was sharing to say the same thing.did you read the last line of her post??

[Kathryn Martin]

In a sense this whole thread is making me crazy.

At the end of the day you have to answer these questions:

- what is your goal in transitioning?
- what does it mean to pass?
- how do you achieve passing?
- what does it take in reality to pass?

All those who believe that dressing, voice, body shape have anything to do with passing raise your hand

If you believe you can act the woman please raise your hand

If you believe that to transition means passing as a woman raise your hand

After you do I will have some things to say......

[Lorileah]

I am amazed this is still be"discussed". Maybe I misread Melissa's point from the start. All she was saying is, be prepared, things are not always as they seem. Life is not unicorns and rainbows. We all know that. Kudos to those who transition without a speed bump. Brava. Kudos to those who suck it up when they do hit the speed bump. There is not a TS on these boards who is not in some way a heroine to me.

Last night brought it back to me strongly. I get by and life is usually smooth. But I have "come out" to so many people who know me as the male. Half the time last night I was "he" "him" or called "Monte". Being tired (physically) made it much worse. I wanted to scream don't you see what I look like? I thought about the post here about moving cross country and starting over. The ideal isn't it? But it isn't the standard.

It was my take that all this was supposed to be was a reality check. Nothing more. That there will be times when things are not smooth. There will be times when you can fly high. My life is like that no matter what I look like on the outside.

[Rianna Humble]

Post withdrawn because I had seriously misinterpreted what Kaitly had written

[Bree-asaurus]

*sigh* Well let's just keep on arguing about it and then wonder why the thread gets closed ;)

[josee]

I am one month on hormones, well into my facial hair removal and have penciled in going full time and transitioning at work late spring 2013. This is set to be after my baby (almost 18 yr old) boy graduates from high school and at the time of year when 90% of the hiring for my field happens (just in case).

I am under no illusions that transitioning is easy or even pleasant most of the time. I am already suffering big time in my relationship with my poor wife. I expect to loose my job shortly after coming out. I can't imagine what anyone would see as romantic about transitioning.
I still see that phony dude staring back at me in the mirror but if I squint a little am seeing more and more of the girl coming through.

When I go out and about running errands or shopping or whatever I fully expect to be followed by store security, have groups of teens point, stare and giggle and to be called sir by SA's. For the most part, none of these things have happened, that I have noticed as long as I pack my breast forms. My desire of course is to eventually pass 100% and have everyone I come across treat me as the chick I am.

I'm a little hard of hearing from my Punk Rock band days so I really don't hear whispers behind my back anyway. As long as I am not hassled, I really don't mind what anyone thinks right now. I know I'm doing the right thing.

Looking forward to "full time tranny" so I can finally really be myself.

Josee

[Nigella]

You know, human nature being what it is, too many people look for that one-upmanship.

The original post was a wake up call, a statement of fact. Having said that, that fact does not necessarily fit all, indeed, what a weird world we would be in if it did.

Every post from a TS is a valid post, whether that is an affirmation of the OP or a contradiction. One thing I did not read was Mellisa stating that this is true for one and all. What I do wonder is how many who are just starting this pathway will review their thinking 6 months or so down the line. Believe me I have, and I have had a very smooth ride along this road.

[Courtneigh]

Wise words...and true !!! Life is not the movies...Guess each of us, having different personalities and dealing with life in our own way...has our "own bitch" to live with ?

But live with we have too !

Nothing in life that is really worth it...comes EASY ??? !!!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Here is where I take issue with those who want to pillory the person rather than respond to their argument.

Whilst Melissa has a fair point that MANY TS folks will always stand out as not being GG's, I don't think that anyone here has the right to say that someone else using their own experience to say essentially "That doesn't have to be true 100% of the time" has no standing or that their post is worthless.



kind of responding to your whole post...i must not have been clear..there are worthless posts...there are people that have an agenda to wait for threads and then jump on people that are here trying to help(for better or worse)..they don't care about me or you or anyone here...one of those posters is on this thread....you seem to be saying that i'm attacking a whole group of posters and i would never do that..

as far as the other points, i'm ok disagreeing around the margins.....i respect your opinion alot, but i didn't put down anybody except that one person...whether my opinion on a post is on or off topic is not putting down anybody...you may be right and i may be wrong..its all good..

[Jorja]

I do hope that anyone starting down or already on this path stops and reviews their thinking many times during the process. I hope they question each and every little step they take. It is a dangerous and scary path to be taking but none of us would be here if we didn't need to be.

This thread shows that there is no one simple "cute little package" way to transition. If it works for you, fine. That is just what you needed or at least you got away with it. For those that had an easy time of transition, I applaud you. That is the way it should be for everyone.

Unfortunately, it isn’t for many. For those having problems with the snickers and comments, and stares, can you imagine going through transition 20-40-60 years ago? Believe me, it was hell. And those that went before me had it even harder. But many of us got through it. Many of us went on to live a “normal” quiet and productive life as the person we needed so desperately to be. It may not seem like it now but you will too.

[Rianna Humble]

you seem to be saying that i'm attacking a whole group of posters and i would never do that..

I misinterpreted your words and for that I am truly sorry. You are one of the most helpful and considerate people I have come across in my time on crossdressers.com

[Kittie]

Not sure what the original post was a response to. I'm quite sure however, that none of us start this journey without a great deal of thought about the length and breadth of the road and the obstacles that may lay ahead. Should people let said obstacles get in the way of their ultimate goals? I think not.


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?
Actually, who are you not to be?
Your playing small does not serve the world.
There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.
We are all meant to shine, as children do.
As we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
As we're liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.


Speaking of intestinal fortitude after transition? What about the strength people show through the trial and tribulations DURING transition, there is no flip-switch fireworks display at the 'end' of it all, it's a long and difficult process that takes place over a period of time and during that period of time, surely you gain valuable experience and emotional strength that helps prepare you for life thereafter?

[melissaK]

Speaking of intestinal fortitude after transition? What about the strength people show through the trial and tribulations DURING transition, there is no flip-switch fireworks display at the 'end' of it all, it's a long and difficult process that takes place over a period of time and during that period of time, surely you gain valuable experience and emotional strength that helps prepare you for life thereafter?

Kittie, I like your quote, it's a thought provoking point of view, echoed at various times in the posts of others such as accounts of Transwomen who despite a lack of feminine beauty still win people over by their determined spirit to be happy. And I found BadTranny's OP a wonderful display of the intestinal fortitude you talk about.

I am long in the game of being TS, and new in the game of actually coming out and over coming obstacles to being myself in front of others. My own road to this point has been arduous. This thread remains inspiring.

[Badtranny]

[B]Speaking of intestinal fortitude after transition? What about the strength people show through the trial and tribulations DURING transition, there is no flip-switch fireworks display at the 'end' of it all, it's a long and difficult process that takes place over a period of time and during that period of time, surely you gain valuable experience and emotional strength that helps prepare you for life thereafter?

This is an exact summary of my original post. Sooooo we are in agreement then?

[Pamela Kay]

I agree Melissa.

Just had the thought, we do bell curves at work for student grades at the end of a course. Strikes me that transition starts the same way as far as the difficulty level goes, low at the start and climbing as you progress. You peak out for awhile then as things begin to settle down and become more normal the difficulty curve begins to go down and at some point level back out.

Since I'm up at the top (by the bell hanger) I'm only assuming the curve after this point. There will be a few up's and down's along the way but on a whole you get the picture. Some of you that are way farther down the road than me can tell me if I'm all wet or not.

I also believe the new baseline at the end will still always be higher than at the start.

[Kittie]

This is an exact summary of my original post. Sooooo we are in agreement then?

Perhaps I misread but it looked like your post was implying that someone who had gone from beginning to end would not have the strength to deal with the issues that they have indeed fought through already, by going through with it. It's true strength is required nonetheless and each of us have it within us, be it hidden, or undiscovered. Else many of us would not be where we are today. :angel:

[Duana]

Great post, Melissa and one that hit home with my own thoughts. This is a great blog about body differences that will never change in MTF TS's:
http://annierichards.com/skeleton.htm

[DebbieL]

Yes. When I was 11 or 12, I could pass as a pretty girl. By the time I was 15, I was 6 foot tall, weight 140 lbs, and had a booming bass singing voice, and still talked with a high pitched voice in the hope that I could someday transition.

30 suicide attempts and 10 years later, I met a woman who claimed she accepted my dressing, and I did my best to be a good husband and father, and failed. Had I not been going to AA and NA meetings, sometimes 2-3 meetings per day, I probably would have tried to kill myself then too. Fortunately, I had good support in coming out as Debbie and a marriage counselor who saw that I was transsexual and referred me to a therapist who helped me through the early phases of transition.

At 35, I finally came out, started living full-time, and there were no pretenses that I was fooling anyone, but people who got to know me as both Rex and Debbie realized that I was so much happier, that they just liked Debbie, often MORE than they liked Rex. The more I went out as Debbie, the more satisfied I was with my life, I met a GF who loved Debbie, and invited her GF and the 3 of us lived together - which made everybody's life better. Soon I ONLY went to work as Rex, and even then it was obvious that I was transitioning.

When my ex threatened to have ALL of my parental rights revoked unless I stopped transition, and provided evidence that this was a credible threat, I had to stop. A decision I regret to this day. I did start back into transition again, but without the support of others close to me on a daily basis, it was too easy to focus on the costs and consequences, and lose focus on the benefits.

20 years later, I've had a stroke, two heart attacks, and spinal damage due to side effects of NOT transitioning.

The one good thing about being 56 years old, is that I can go full femme, dress age and situation appropriate, and pass very easily. That's because a 50 year old woman (Debbie looks about 10 years younger than Rex) who looks like a 50 year old woman - isn't that interesting to most people. In fact, Rex gets more attention (negative) than Debbie does.

Yes, I had always wanted to be like Myra Breckenridge - going in looking and sounding like Rex Reed, and coming out looking like Raquel Welch, but even in the movie, it's obvious that the whole thing was a fantasy, a dream, that had zero basis in fact. They were even played by two different people.

I'm still a girl, trapped in an old man's body. I still like to go out looking pretty, and I still want to transition, but I'm afraid that if I did transition, and ended up becoming the old lady that nobody knows or likes, that I probably would want to end it quickly. I can hope for reincarnation, but can't commit suicide because I might end up as a woman in Africa or an Islamic country where they practice mutilation of women.

Damned if I do, Damned if I don't.

If I could go back in the time machine and send a message to myself, it would be to my 18 year old self, telling me to come out of the closet then, when I was in high school, enrolled to start an almost all-girl school, and 2/3rds of my friends were gay and/or thought I was gay.

[ReineD]

I still like to go out looking pretty, and I still want to transition, but I'm afraid that if I did transition, and ended up becoming the old lady that nobody knows or likes, that I probably would want to end it quickly.

Gee Debbie, if I thought that no one liked me just because I'm aging, I'd shoot myself too. :p

No one can avoid aging, not even a GG. You just need to change your lifestyle, and age gracefully. Start playing Bingo with the other old ladies and feed pigeons at the park or something. :)

Better yet, volunteer in your community and stop worrying about graying hair and wrinkles.

[Rianna Humble]

I'm afraid that if I did transition, and ended up becoming the old lady that nobody knows or likes, that I probably would want to end it

I did myself a lot of damage with this sort of thinking. It made me put off my transition for a very long time. In the end, I got to the stage where I could not live another day as Robert. Now, approaching my 57th birthday and into the 3rd year as Rianna, I find that more rather than fewer people want to know me for myself. I have a wider circle of friends and people have said that I am nicer to know than Robert was.

[Michelle.M]

I'm still a girl, trapped in an old man's body. I still like to go out looking pretty, and I still want to transition, but I'm afraid that if I did transition, and ended up becoming the old lady that nobody knows or likes, that I probably would want to end it quickly.

OK, most people here would say that is being superficial and it's missing the whole point of transition, but there is an aspect of your concern that's worth noting; transition is difficult and the more roadblocks to acceptance that can be reduced or eliminated (such as a masculine appearance) the more successful your transition will be. But as I see from your post, your worries about being old and unliked appear to baseless -


At 35, I finally came out, started living full-time, and there were no pretenses that I was fooling anyone, but people who got to know me as both Rex and Debbie realized that I was so much happier, that they just liked Debbie, often MORE than they liked Rex.

And apparently you seem to be happy with your appearance and finding acceptance isn't as big a problem as you seem to think -


The one good thing about being 56 years old, is that I can go full femme, dress age and situation appropriate, and pass very easily. That's because a 50 year old woman (Debbie looks about 10 years younger than Rex) who looks like a 50 year old woman - isn't that interesting to most people. In fact, Rex gets more attention (negative) than Debbie does.

So what's the real issue?


I did myself a lot of damage with this sort of thinking. It made me put off my transition for a very long time. In the end, I got to the stage where I could not live another day as Robert. Now, approaching my 57th birthday and into the 3rd year as Rianna, I find that more rather than fewer people want to know me for myself. I have a wider circle of friends and people have said that I am nicer to know than Robert was.

Rianna has said very well what the rest of us in transition have discovered. I'll be 55 in a few months and will have my GRS next year. Obviously, age isn't stopping her or me or many of the other girls on this forum.

And here's the really bad thing about putting your transition on hold. Your gender dissonance just gets worse, you just get older and you pile on the regrets. You can't go back in time and there will always be a reason not to go forward. Who needs that kind of paralysis?

Nobody's trying to talk you into transitioning, but you might want to consider out just how you'd like to live the rest of your life.

[Bree-asaurus]

Nobody's trying to talk you into transitioning, but you might want to consider out just how you'd like to live the rest of your life.

Yup... If you don't need to transition, don't... and be happy about it! If you do need to transition, age and looks aren't going to stop you, and you'll realize it in time.

Just find out what you gotta do to be happy.

[Saffron]

Just find out what you gotta do to be happy.

Sounds easy but in practice it can be really hard to find out!

[Bree-asaurus]

Sounds easy but in practice it can be really hard to find out!

I've been there myself ;)

[KimberlyAU]

I am about to find out for myself. I have chosen (she says with some tiny feelings of wanting to backpedal) that now is the time, and being as old as I am, I am not certain of my prospects of passing fully ever, but that, while it scares me, does not scare me enough to throw away the opportunity to be me before I get to old to appreciate being me. My full time transition date is set and at about the same time, I am off to a University Summer Language School. The enrolments people have been wonderful to me, I know not everyone will be, but the time has come.

[Nicole Erin]

I am about to find out for myself... The enrolments people have been wonderful to me, I know not everyone will be, but the time has come.

As you gain confidence of living day to day in your new role, you will not even think about all that TS stuff. Confidence may or may not help one "pass" but it does keep people off your case. You just have to develop the attitude of "this is who I am".

[Badtranny]

You just have to develop the attitude of "this is who I am".

...and it doesn't hurt if everyone knows you gonna cut a bitch.

[Nicole Erin]

...and it doesn't hurt if everyone knows you gonna cut a bitch.
Ehh I don't know, I just don't have many problems anymore. Though people tend to say I have this dominant personality and a couple of my good friends say I am a smart ass.

BTW folks - if Melissa's avatar is still of her holding a cup, it shows the truth -
Not FFS, not HRT, not even makeup, but COFFEE is her secret to looking beautiful each day. As i don't drink coffee, I will allow Melissa to explain the hidden powers that turn one from demon to pretty woman.

[TeresaL]

When I go out and about running errands or shopping or whatever I fully expect to be followed by store security, have groups of teens point, stare and giggle and to be called sir by SA's. For the most part, none of these things have happened, that I have noticed...

Same here, but my days are numbered. I only go out and about two or three days of the week. Retired and home alone most of the one.

Someone who knows me can ID me though. I've had that before with an FtM member from my support group. I was in drab, and he walked right up and started talking to me without a hitch. So i evidentially look the same in either mode. Maybe I pass because I look like a man when I presenting as a woman. I'll see him today and ask.

[Foxglove]

I do hope that anyone starting down or already on this path stops and reviews their thinking many times during the process. I hope they question each and every little step they take. It is a dangerous and scary path to be taking but none of us would be here if we didn't need to be.

This has been a very enlightening thread for me. This for me sums up a lot of stuff that's been said here.

I'm out full-time for all of five weeks now, and already I'm thinking about "Where to now?" This thread has confirmed for me what I already suspected--that I really need to do some hard thinking.


You just have to develop the attitude of "this is who I am".

This is what five weeks out in the world has taught me. Not a bad thing to learn, and even at this early date I can't see me ever going back to my old life. I don't know where I'm going, but this thread has given me lots to think about.

Annabelle

[LeaP]

BTW folks - if Melissa's avatar is still of her holding a cup, it shows the truth -
Not FFS, not HRT, not even makeup, but COFFEE is her secret to looking beautiful each day.

Well, YES ... But look what it did to her hair! :coffee:

[Badtranny]

Well, YES ... But look what it did to her hair! :coffee:

Hey! I just woke up! I should at least get some credit for not having any makeup on. :-`

[LeaP]

Hey! I just woke up! I should at least get some credit for not having any makeup on. :-`

You're the boldest, bravest, most bodacious badtranny I know. You're tossing candids out there like candy! Photo fastidiousness has been foregone! Full credit given!

[Pamela Kay]

Maybe we need to start a no makeup coffee cup thread.

:heehee:

And at least Melissa has hair!

[Rianna Humble]

In some cases (mine for instance) that would not be a good idea as we are not allowed to post horror pics :heehee:

[vikki2020]

What a great thread. I'm also on the verge of taking those first steps towards being full time, and these thoughts are extremely helpful! Thank you ALL!

[Saffron]

You know what? **** the people. I'm gonna be myself no matter what. Attitude is everything in life. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

[Michelle.M]

Maybe we need to start a no makeup coffee cup thread.

Um, yeah. Y'all go ahead and get started without me. :)

[Inna]

since we are on the candid and a coffee theme here:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5KXsWDuoGhM/UBGdFc1BzEI/AAAAAAAAHqk/TGv2GxBnvaA/s400/HPIM7125.JPGhttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iLp6FzsIF8Y/T_hyjpOUTdI/AAAAAAAAG30/2ydGyD5X0lc/s400/2012-06-26%252010.32.24.jpghttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DPppuqNQ3G4/UBGdJ9lOG7I/AAAAAAAAHrY/rZ61w8Ac6QU/s400/HPIM7126.JPGhttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QAD4YkT1EJI/UMVCFXwuqRI/AAAAAAAAK3o/3auDISiVmtQ/s400/2012-09-18%252011.35.15.jpg

Believe me these pictures had been taken while giggling profusely and sometimes I really wonder should I drink it or let it live...........all that at 6am......no wonder my life looks like this!

[morgan51]

Wow some of my favorite sick b*****s at thier very early best. Love you all. m.

[pickles]

Haha I love your pic, Pam. *claps*

Anywhoo, what can you say about all this? That's life.

[Inna]

oK Here it comes, early morning KAFE sneak peak.......
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SGEmPEzgn4o/UM5BgZq4TtI/AAAAAAAALCU/Af8HBlLGoIM/s400/HPIM7315.JPG

[Pamela Kay]

But you still look good anyway Inna.

That's just not right. :)

[Inna]

well, the secret might be in the size of a cup of coffee, however I disagree, look at my bags under eyes, and my suture lines do show a bit still, perhaps for life, oh well, you cant have it all.....but thanks for a complement, love you girl!!!

[Nicole Erin]

So years later, the truth comes out -
If you look at the coffee that Inna posted, it looks like a face.
What this proves is that INNA was the one who originally cooked the grill cheese sandwich that looked like the virgin Mary.
I hear she auctioned off that thing on ebay for like 5 figures.

Hey umm, I am a fan of hot chocolate (the drink, not the band.)
Here is me before and after makeup. I don't look EXACTLY like these but pretty close

[Beverley Sims]

Are you girls on drugs or something.
This is such a happy thread I am starting to wonder. :)
Keep it going.

[Rianna Humble]

Hey Nicole, If the one on the left is you after makeup (after all the 1 on the right is obviously the natural you) then perhaps you should use a different brand of makeup :heehee:

[Nicole Erin]

Hey Nicole, If the one on the left is you after makeup (after all the 1 on the right is obviously the natural you) then perhaps you should use a different brand of makeup :heehee:
HA! If I looked as good as the photo on the right, makeup or not, I would NOT be working. My job in life would be to look pretty and go shopping with a rich man's credit card. I would attach a "toy" to a mirror and date it on the side.

[angpai30]

You all are Stark mad... Hahaha don't mind me stupid Iron Man joke. Anyways a cup of coffee sounds great!! When do we go? If I looked like the picture on the right I would be saying... YES in the morning and YES YES YES YES YES in the evening and going out shopping in the afternoon, coming homing laying down for a nap, cooking dinner for my hubby. House wife sounds pretty good to me!!

Angela

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Ok i got this for xmas and i can't resist

[Michelle.M]

Ok i got this for xmas and i can't resist

Wow, I'm still trying to process that one! LOL!

For Christmas my son gave me a name change. No more "Dad", now just Michelle.

[Pamela Kay]

That's great Kaitlyn! If you look really close mine say's U.S. NAVY dad.

[Inna]

I am so glad Kaitlyn, you are laughing!

Because any one seeing this pic would have asked "So.....where is DAD"

[JackieMarie]

Kaitliynm, that is the BEST picture ever, own it!

seriously tho, im with inna, where is dad?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i know ...where is dad???

fwiw...they still call me dad...i felt that was important to them and it doesn't bother me at all..

they made up this funny line inside our extended family..."that's my dad, she's a girl"