Stubborn or just really don't understand?

[Tamara Croft]

Rather than hijack TGMarlas thread about her wife now knowing, I've snipped a bit out that kind of made me wonder.
This is a concept that she simply cannot get her mind around. I told her that she would be welcome to speak with other women about all of this, but she simply does not want to do so. Not at all.I sat there thinking, well what if she is just saying that because she can't accept the fact, that if she does find other women to talk to, she might start accepting Marla?? So this then got me thinking more about why some women choose not to get involved, not to be educated etc.... It kind of reminds me of when I was younger, your mum makes you something to eat and because you don't like the look of it, you refuse to try it, even though it could taste superb, stubborness subconciously kicks in and you refuse to even try it point blank. So what if this is why some women simply refuse to be educated? simply because they are being stubborn.... +?

Marla, please don't take this post personally, it is meant for all unaccepting partners in general, your thread just got me thinking :hugs:

[Lydia]

Is it that she wants her 'man'? My wife, although accepting the 'mutual play' aspect of my dressing, can't stand the thought of me ever going further than makeup, nylons and certain attire. If I added 'padding' (or breasts), fuzzy-pink sweaters - there'd be trouble. At least that's how things are just now. She is growing with this and who knows how far it will lead. I wonder (not having read the original thread) if TGMarla's wife would also grow with it, if she saw very minute increments as time went by? A nighty tonight, with slippers added next month/week, maybe JUST lipstick a week or two later... In a few months - BRUSHED hair, but in a femme style... Wigs, etc once that is accepted.

I know that if my wife came home to see me, fully dressed, made up, long and sexy wig, nails, heels - the whole nine yards - that would be it - over in a second. But not adding nails, padding, long hair (I do wear a shorter wig now), or other, keeps her interested - and a bit more each time.

I'm not saying this is how all women will accept their mates dressing - but may be worth thought? So far (fingers crossed), it's working for me.

[BrendaChristine]

Why do people in General refuse to accept different things? The eternal question. for once, being male can be insightful, as we are generally the most stubborn, pig headed, inflexible species ever to exist. History is littered with the consequeces of small minded people, regrettably most of them men.
B.

[Nikki Dee]

Stubborn.?...surely more like plain old fashioned fear.!!!
Nikki. x

[BrendaChristine]

Stubborn.?...surely more like plain old fashioned fear.!!!
Nikki. x
Sometimes stubborness has it's roots in fear.
B.

[Lauren_T]

Why do people in General refuse to accept different things? The eternal question. fFr once, being male can be insightful, as we are generally the most stubborn, pig headed, inflexible species ever to exist. History is littered with the consequeces of small minded people, regrettably most of them men.
B.I was gonna wait until I come back from the mall to comment, but I saw this and had to pop in for a mo...

That's really it - people in general. Neither gender has a monopoly on that irrational attitude where they have made up their minds (based, invariably, on misinformation) and adamantly refuse to discuss the issue at hand.

...but anyway, I'll weigh in a bit later with one of my trademark endless, dull-as-dishwater diatribes... :p

[Ellaine]

Hi Tamara :)
Good question.
The social taboo is a strong ally to the non-accepter. It may also be a about being asked to study a subject about which you have absolutely no interest,e.g. gem-stone polishing or D-I-Y!
Or if you put the boot on the other foot, nappy changing! How many times have you heard "Men don't do that!" ?

Even in marriage, I'm sure the better you look (up to a point ;) ), the more likely acceptance will be. So if you are going to get caught, do it while you are young and slim.

Ellaine

[Phoebe Reece]

Sometimes a crossdressing mate creates a percieved threat to a GG's own femininity. The GG's thought being, "I should be woman enough for him." That threat may become even bigger if the GG sees her SO dressed and thinks the CD is better looking as a woman than herself. No one really likes their personal basic beliefs challenged, and the beliefs related to what men are supposed to be and what women are supposed to be can run very deep.

[Julie York]

I just posted in MArlas thread too. But I can only think it is fear...like a fear of the dark. If you went in there and had a good look there might be nothing scary but it is easier to just not look. And some women handle their boyfriend/husband's desires like that. It is easier to just not look than face some sort of fear that they have.

I can't understand why people do that though. It must be so abhorent to them that they are totally freaked by it. Which is very sad.

But I'd be inclined to try and understand WHY?

Maybe that's just me.

[TGMarla]

Marla, please don't take this post personally, it is meant for all unaccepting partners in general, your thread just got me thinking

Believe me, Tamara, no offense taken. This is the one subject that will elicit the most fear and discomfort among men who crossdress. It pertains to us all at one time or another to a greater or lesser degree. I appreciate your taking it a step farther.

Look, she's a wonderful woman, my wife. Kind, caring, and always putting others before herself. Over the years we have grown to a point where we have little common interest, which is hard on us. She likes to watch television, especially the Lifetime channel, which I just hate. I'm not much into television, preferring the interactive and progressive lure of the internet. I'm a computer guy..err...girl....whatever. I like to golf and watch sports, and she likes neither. She simply does not enjoy many of the activities that I do. It has caused us to grow somewhat apart. Yet I still recognize that she is a very good person, one of the finest people I have ever known.

But she is obsessively, and stubbornly "normal". She has this notion in her head that anything out of the ordinary, like crossdressing, is just plain wierd. "You need help" kind of wierd. Anything that deviates from the norm is foreign to her. And she simply does not want to "educate" herself on something she really wants no part of. She wants it to go away, period. The sooner the better. I tried to tell her that all of the research I have seen points towards this being an "incurable" affliction. Crossdressers seldom, if ever, quit. I have no desire to quit. It would be difficult to walk away from it if I have no desire to do so.

So here I am, between the hammer and the anvil again. It's hard to see what road I can take that will bring me to an acceptable outcome for both of us. I won't stop dressing, and she likely will not come to accept it. Only time will tell if anything will change.

[DonnaT]

A good question indeed.

Even as accepting as my wife is, she refuses to join the forum and talk to the other GGs. She'll even comment that I have my online friends for support, and she has no one she can talk to. Yet, she refuses to go online with other SOs.

I can't figure out why, other than she prefers it to remain private, even though we've been out. She met Stephanie Brooks, in drab, and was very insecure in the meeting, apparently because someone we now know also knows she is married to a CD. At least that is my take on it, because she can't (or won't) explain otherwise.

[kathy gg]

What I am going to say might offend and please know I am trying to write this as sensatively as possible.....but one thing alot of guys comment on is how 'normal' how, religious, or how conservative their wife is. Don't you think a small majoirty of you thought when you married this 'normal-conventioanl' woman that maybe just maybe some of that would rub off ? Or just that there would be some possibility of being as normal as she wants? I hear it all the time, how rational, how sensible....but what I dont' hear is crazy, goofy, spontaneous, how outrageous, how naughty, how utterly wild, how notorious ! I never hear anyone deseribe their wife in those terms, at least those with non-accepting ones.

I mean, believe it or not people it is possible to be nutty and fun and just a litle insane but also be a good mom, an honest person. It almost seems like people think that if you are this crazy wild chick in the bedroom, you can't possible be a good outstanding wife and mom too at the same time.

So when you (meaning who ever) go into these marriages, why does it surprise anyone?

I dont' know each persons life story...maybe your wife was this wild chick who was exciting and uninhibited at once, and if so and she became this close minded person, I am really sorry. She sold you a cr*p bill of goods and that is false advertising. I never made any bones about myself to anyone I dated and if you liked one part of me you also had to apprecatie the other part of me. I know people 'change' as they get older, but regardless that is a huge change if that is the case.

I am sorry to sound like this judgemental person, but everyone who deals with unacceptance always acts so surprised and flustered that they are not gaining acceptance. But when you start with what you are starting from, really what is there to be surprised about?

[BrittanieinLA]

We just don't fit in the normal box and unfortunately most people still need their little boxes to categorize everything including us girls.

I have only recently found this site and have taken great courage and strength just from reading a few posts from you all. And I have been away from dressing for quite some time. I also have a significant other who doesn't like my dressing. Therefore, I remain deep, deep in the closet. Oh well.

As I said, I have taken great courage from you all. I decided last night I would take a small step. In fact, today, I am in the office with suit and tie and wearing female trouser socks. I had client calls and everything. Sorry, its the biggest step I can take at this time. But wait, I was so emboldened, that at lunch, I went to the department store, with head held high, I proudly looked through the shoes and trouser socks and bought a pair of socks.

Big change comes in small steps. Maybe its small steps for Marla. You are farther along than I am. Bless you.

[MissyCD]

I just joined today and was talking about the crossdressing high in my intrduction thred. Later today my wife was by me when I was looking at TSMarla's thred about been caught ( I showed my wife my intrduction and knows I joined ) and I showed her how this site works and what it's about and how it's not a porno site. She read all of Marla's thred and then I got the same negitive talk from her, described in the thred. At least it was calm colective talk, but theres the lows Imentioned in my into. Maybe I'm too sensitive but we have fear also of not beeing accepted by those we love. Just having a place to respond to these feeling is makeing me feel better as I type. Peaks and valleys. Hang in there Marla, things change min to min.

[MissyCD]

I just joined today and was talking about the crossdressing high in my intrduction thred. Later today my wife was by me when I was looking at TSMarla's thred about been caught ( I showed my wife my intrduction and knows I joined ) and I showed her how this site works and what it's about and how it's not a porno site. She read all of Marla's thred and then I got the same negitive talk from her, described in the thred. At least it was calm colective talk, but theres the lows Imentioned in my into. Maybe I'm too sensitive but we have fear also of not beeing accepted by those we love. Just having a place to respond to these feeling is makeing me feel better as I type. Peaks and valleys. Hang in there Marla, things change min to min.

[rachel_jean]

Even as accepting as my wife is, she refuses to join the forum and talk to the other GGs. She'll even comment that I have my online friends for support, and she has no one she can talk to. Yet, she refuses to go online with other SOs.


Same here as well, although I'd have to say my wife is more 'tolerant' than 'accepting' of my CDing.

One of her earliest 'issues' was that she had no one to talk to regarding this, but, that doesn't really seem to be the case.

[Stephanie Brooks]

But when you start with what you are starting from, really what is there to be surprised about?
Rephrased another way, "You made your bed, now sleep in it." There's certainly logic in that.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

It does seem like a number of folks who married "conservative" wives did so in a (sub)sconscious attempt to "normalize" themselves. Unfortunately, it rarely works out that way... :(

[Julia Cross]

Hi Marla,

I read your post and it is shockingly similar to my situation which ended in divorce. We too loved each other, but drifted apart due to lack of common interests and then to add difficulty to that, crossdressing, which although she tolerated for awhile, she just didn't like it or get it. it did nothing for her but affirm the belief that we had simply drifted too far in our own ways.

From my perspective and reading between the lines, I fear you could head in this direction as well. Marriage is a wonderful thing, if you could find other things to possibly interact with her a little more, then perhaps the dressing will not bother her much and you will strengthen the bound between you two again. I realize it is not easy, but well worth the effort.

I hope you don't mind me expressing my thoughts based on what I have read.

julia

[Rachel Morley]

It kind of reminds me of when I was younger, your mum makes you something to eat and because you don't like the look of it, you refuse to try it, even though it could taste superb

What a fantastic analogy! That's it exactly! We always think we know better or maybe it's that we fear what the outcome might be.

In My husband Betty, Helen Boyd says that she found out that wives harbored three major fears:

1) that their husbands were gay
2) that loving a man who dressed like a woman would make them a "lesbian"
3) that their crossdressing husbands would want (eventually) to become women.

(My Husband Betty by Helen Boyd- top of page 14)

Whether a wife comes to accept her husband's crossdressing or not is one thing, but wanting to listen, understand and show some empathy towards the man she (presumably) loves and cares about goes much deeper.

I think I would more upset if my wife didn't want to listen to me and want to at least try to help me resolve the guilt and termoil in my head at least to some degree. Then maybe we would both be on our way to a workable solution.

[ChristineRenee]

Totally agree with you Angel and Tamara....spot on there!;)

[Helana]

I already answered this issue in Marla's thread first so I will just summarize and say fear underpins intolerence. In Tamara's analogy, our initial rejection of a food item is because we dont like the look of it and fear it will taste horrible. Then that initial fear becomes a belief which becomes stubbornly set in your head. So if your mother was to force-feed you the food you dislike, your mind is already set to reject it and you will say "YUCK!" even though in reality the food is not unpleasant at all.

Intolerance is a belief system based on fear of the unknown (ie different). Beliefs are a hard thing to change, it cannot be forced on a person, the change has to come from within through reflection.

Kathy's point is spot on. If you passed yourself off as a "normal" guy while dating and choose to marry a conservative wife then you have to live with these consequences. I am 100% sympathetic to everyone who married in the dark days before the widespread use of the internet when you were alone and felt guilty about CDing. I truely hope that we will be the last generations of men who have to face these problems and that all future CDers will choose the responsible route of fully revealing their CDing while dating so that they choose the best partner to spend their life with.

[Lulie GG]

No I didn't understand - still trying to get my head round it all - but one of the first things I did was get on google and started looking, still looking, still reading. It doesn't hurt to read and attempt to understand at least some of it. You can always then brush it aside, ignore it or whatever but at least you have tried.


Lulie :hiding:

[Helana]

Hi Lulie

It would be very helpful to us if you can elaborate what aspects of crossdressing you cannot understand or get your head around. What are the issues that make you unable to accept that men would want to present themselves in feminine clothing?

Helana

[Wendy me]

see i have been pushing forward with my wife for a long time and we do ten to move forward but she always stops then it's waite and then more small progress ...and if i ever thought of getting her on line it would be dif,... well my thoughts are that our so's that don't take the step to find out more or try to understand it is thay are simply scared to go there ...could this be a fear of loseing their so's ...could that just not want to know ...that it is just the fear of the unknown???/

[Katie Ashe]

:rant: I feel the fact that most people are raised to hate us, our kind. From what I know of humans, We resist change unless is fits our personal agenda for an advantage. It is partly to be Stubborn. I have read dozens of spouses leaving. They are not the person I married is generally the reason. Denial is to blam also on both parties. I won't accept it is generally the first response. I know of many whom don't approve of the life stile, nor try to understand, simply because being trans whatever is against there believes. When I confront them on why, they can't try to understand, none yet have answered to date. It is sad the in todays society that one must blend or be outcasted. Think about it, the person whom doesn't accept you wearing "ladies" items 99% of the time, is not wearing fem things when they tell you I don't accept/approve. I may be getting off track here, but I am getting fed up with people not approving of our life stile. I didn't ask for approval in the first place. Nor will I ever. Come on we don't go around beating up and killing ladies for wearing pants. We don't laugh at girls for wearing make-up. I stand by my signature... Be on your way...

This post is not to reflect any disrespect to anyone, I'm just venting.
I would like to personally Thank all you GG you do support us, :worship: You are dearly loved, wiether or not you know this.

[Stephanie Brooks]

(This is a repost. I posted it yesterday, deleted it, and decided to post it again.)

Great question Tamara. My model for Tracy and me is Franz Kafka's "The Metamorphosis". Here's an online version:

http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/stories/kafka-E.htm

For those not inclined, the protagonist Gregor awakens to find himself turned physically into an insect. The story is an account of his family's ultimate rejection of him.

Allow me to paraphrase one portion of the story, adapting it to my situation.


"It must be gotten rid of," cried Tracy. "That is the only way, mother. You must try to get rid of the idea that this is Steve. The fact that we have believed for so long, that is truly our real misfortune. But how can it be Steve? If it were Steve, he would have long ago realized that a communal life among normal people is not possible with a crossdresser and would have gone away voluntarily. Then I would not have a husband, but we could go on living and honour his memory. But this animal plagues us. It drives away the friends, will obviously take over the entire home, and leave us to spend the night in the alley. Just look, mother," she suddenly cried out, "she's already starting up again." With a fright which was totally incomprehensible to Stephanie, the wife even left the daughter, pushed herself away from her chair, as if she would sooner sacrifice her daughter than remain in Stephanie's vicinity, and rushed behind her mother who, excited merely by her behaviour, also stood up and half raised her arms in front of the wife as though to protect her.

[TGMarla]

First of all, let me respond to Kathy GG. Your point is very well taken, but it does not address or help to resolve the situation. You are very correct in stating that we should not be shocked when our "conservative" wives do not accept us and our lifestyle. But I am NOT shocked at her unacceptance. Yes, I am flustered by this, but another word for it would be "frustrated". And I feel this way not because of shock or any other emotion. I simply painted myself into a corner, and that is always a frustrating situation to be in. She was never a wild, spontaneous, wild in the bedroom, adventurous woman. I knew this when I married her. But my reasons for marrying her, even though they require no justification, are that she is one of the best persons I have ever known. To know her is to love her. That doesn't mean that we are 100% compatable in all things. But she is truly a wonderful woman.

So no, I'm not at all surprised at her reaction. And yes, I married her before there was really any internet. She's still not a big fan of the internet. So bringing her into this forum is not an option. Besides, I am much more open about my crossdressing and my opinions on it than I am prepared to be with her at this time. Perhaps in time, that will change. It is not my wish to be underhanded and deceitful towards her, but neither am I willing to send her into shock over an issue she still has a hard time grasping.

Helena, I always like your posts, by the way.

Katie, it's not the same thing. I'm blue in the face with this take. I raid her closet, yes. She raids mine, yes again. But when I raid hers, I'm wearing falsies, hiding my private parts, and putting on a wig. She's not hiding her breasts, sticking a sock or a sausage in her crotch, and wearing a boy wig. It's just not the same thing.

Tamara, she might just bite the dish, and find out she likes it. But it's not likely. She simply cannot grasp any reasons why we or anyone for that matter crosses the gender gap. I'm going to write a long letter to her and try to explain things. I am better at gathering my thoughts and saying things clearly when I write them down. And that way, I won't say anything that I will regret later. When the door is kicked open, either fools rush in, or we're fools for not at least seeing what's behind it. I'm going to have to muster the courage to keep it at least propped open a little.

Thank you everyone for all your thoughts.

[kathy gg]

Hi marla,

I am sorry if my post came out really harsh or unsympathetic. I don't know if you have read other posts of mine, but I try to be compassionate to most everyone's plight when it comes to SO issues.

You wrote:"First of all, let me respond to Kathy GG. Your point is very well taken, but it does not address or help to resolve the situation."

You are right when I wrote that it was a bit unnecessary as I am stating the obvious. What I said you 'know'. What I did not give you was any help in addressing the issue.

I guess what I did not say, was that ultimatly for many there is never a 'resolve' or 'accptance' or 'understanding'. In other words, this is all it will ever be, a misunderstood grey area that is choosing to be ignored or left alone. For some couples what you have right now is it.

What the question to ask yourself (and her eventually) is: can both of you lead happy and full lives in this grey area? Being married , but not together as best friends and lovers. I am not saying divorce is the answer, but usually when no compromise can be reached and it has dragged on, is that any way to continue exsisting?

If all the reasons to stay married outweigh the one's not to stay married and all her kindness and her wonderfulness outweigh her closemindedness then you have your answer. Continue lving just as you are. KNowing this is how it is and no amount of all the good that makes you changes her mind about your needs.

I should have wrote this post last night instead of the one I did and I am sorry to come off as condescending or anything less than caring.

[Katie Ashe]

Look, I'm Sorry. :o I know it's not the same thing. I'm starting to think I didn't understand the subject, or I'm missing something here. Anyways. Skimming everyones responds, I still think I'm feeling close to the same. I think the biggest problem here might be the deception, than expecation of ones SO to accept with-out a problem. Can a couple live together even though their not on the same page, sure. But at what cost. At this point it was kept secret for a reason, than revealed/exposed. Now feelings got hurt for many different reasons.

If I've learned anything here, it could be summed up in this:
Things are not what they seem. We need to be kind to each other. It's not good to judge a book by it's cover, when you work in a book store.

Everyone is different, why is that so hard to grasp? If we were to compare to a box of crayons, no two are the same color, but may be in the same color group. Being transgender is no different than being part of the colour wheel.

I'm sorry if anyone feeling were tainted.:gh:

[TGMarla]

Hey, Katie. Don't sweat it. We have all felt the same way at one time or another. It's very common. I'm glad Tamara started this thread, because it brings one thing to the forefront. The one thing all of us are battling the hardest is widespread ignorance. People are often closed minded, and they do not want to grow out of their cocoons. It's very frustrating. We all want a beautiful world where we can be what we want to be. The trouble is getting there.

[Helana]

This issue about using women's freedom to crossdress as an counter-arguement with unaccepting SOs has come up in this thread. Women certainly do crossdress but they are not crossdressers like we are.

There are two reasons for crossdressing - the push and the pull factors. As crossdressers we dwell on the pull factor, the allure of the femininity, we are so enamoured with the look of the opposite sex we try to emulate them by wearing wigs, breastforms, copy their body movements etc. Clearly women are not doing this.

The second reason is the push factor, in our case we dislike the macho male role model and dive for cover on the opposite side of the fence. The push factor is what happened to women not on an individual level like crossdressers but on a collective level as the feminist movement sought to free women from male domination. Women were told they had to compete with men, be aggressive, chase after careers, basically act and behave as men. Burning bras was a symbolic message to break the shackles of sexism and remove the notion that women had to present themsleves in pretty clothes to satisfy men and be proud of themselves. Today women have raided and worn every article of men's clothing, boots, crewcut hairstyles etc and can dress freely and without thinking because the women before them won this freedom for them.

And while women's wardrobes became increasing masculine in nature, men were not in distress about their partners "becoming men", did not impose restrictions on when, where and how often they could wear masculine clothes etc. Men understood that despite the masculine clothes their partners were still women underneath so they never felt threatened. The feminist movement did not just embolder women to believe in themselves, it also changed men's perceptions of women.

The problem we face today is that there was no equivalent male movement. While women are halfway down the track towards their liberation, men are still on the starting line waiting for the gun to fire. This means men still retain all the shackles of traditional manhood and women's perceptions of men remain unchanged.

Women quite rightly characterized men as "cavemen" for wanting to hold on to outdated sexist viewpoints. What we are dealing with today is exactly the same. We live in a world full of cavewomen, who want to hold onto sexist prejudices about what constitutes a man. We should not be afraid to say this if we are ever going to release ourselves from shame and guilt and believe in our true worth.

There are many aspects about our crossdressing behaviour which can justifiably raise alarm and fear in our SOs and boundaries need to agreed upon. However once a SO has had her fears answered there is never any justificable reason why a man cannot wear a skirt within the privacy of his own home and have a SO get upset about it. The only reason is sexism.

It took decades for the feminist movement to change perceptions and win the right for women to express themselves freely including dress code as part of the overall liberation of women. What chance have we, a secretive minority, got in changing women's perceptions of men. Realistically none. We must face the fact that we live in a world where the majority of females are cavewomen and this will remain the case for the foreseeable future.

In the absense of a male revolution, our only hope is in the slow, gradual liberalization of society. Every new generation born is slightly less sexist than the generations before them and issues like gender identity are being discussed more openly. However this will not eliminate cavewoman mentality. While women may become increasingly aware and supportive of gender issues, when it comes to their own partner the old sexist attitude will kick in. Its ok for others to be crossdressers so long as it is not my partner!

All prejudices are beliefs. Have you ever tried to convince someone who believes in God to read a book on the theory of evolution? People who believe in something do not want to be convinced otherwise and so are very reluctant to read anything or join a group which is going to challenge their beliefs. I think it is important for CDs who have SOs who are so closeminded that they refuse to educate themselves that they have an impossible task on their hands. No amount of information is going to undermine their belief only directly chalenging the prejudice has a chance of working. As Kathy said there is probably never going to be a resolution and holding onto the idea that your SO will eventually see the light is not very realistic. The sooner you face this reality the better.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

It's also worth pointing out that GG don't have the freedom to wear anything they want. The ones I know are usually accutely aware of wearing something that's too ****ty, too butch, too girly, etc.

(****ty is generally universal no-no, the other stuff like too butch or too girly often depends on the context. A friend of mine started dressing more "feminine" after she became a C-level executive. Before then she felt she needed to show she was "all business" to get ahead.)

[Sarahgurl371]

WOW, let me respond before losing my train of thought.

why won't these unaccepting SO's attempt to learn, communicate with others that may help them......HMMMMMMM

1. Afraid that they may actualluy like it. You know, sexaully speaking. Some people, hell, I was afraid for many years of what his all meant about my sexuallity.
2. They feel thier own feminimity is threated, it should be enough. maybe they are so self conscious about thier woman-ness, that another woman in the relationship, they just cannot handle. And certainlly don't want any help from thier husbands idea of the perfect woman - you know, the ones who can accept this.
3.Morality - mine certainlly likes to use that one to my face, OHHH, it stings too! It amazes me how some of the most "moral" people, at least those who come off as holier than thou, are the most close minded, backwards, repressed, lack luster, bigoted people around. Ever heard of Love Thy Neighbor? Judge Not lest thee be judged? Let He who is without sin cast the first stone?
4. Can you tell I am getting a little cynical yet?
5. Fear of diverstiy. Fear of challenging age old ideas and beliefs. Fear of the unknown. Mine is afraid that this will all lead me to "something". Me too! How can I expect her to not have some fear? I do. Maybe other SO's will tell her it will be OK, but it won't.
6.Lack of trust in others. Why would anyone be out here willing to help anyone else with this stuff? They must have an ulterior motive.

Alright, yeah, I am a little P.O.'d tonight. So I will quit. Don't wish to offend anyone. Just been dealing with and unaccepting wife for years, who BTW, now that I decided to leave her, says she will accept me, but refused to come here for some help, or read a book, or go to a support group, or......

[Sarahgurl371]

Whether a wife comes to accept her husband's crossdressing or not is one thing, but wanting to listen, understand and show some empathy towards the man she (presumably) loves and cares about goes much deeper.

I think I would more upset if my wife didn't want to listen to me and want to at least try to help me resolve the guilt and termoil in my head at least to some degree. Then maybe we would both be on our way to a workable solution.


Bout somes it up for me!

[Sarahgurl371]

[QUOTE=kathy gg]

I guess what I did not say, was that ultimatly for many there is never a 'resolve' or 'accptance' or 'understanding'. In other words, this is all it will ever be, a misunderstood grey area that is choosing to be ignored or left alone. For some couples what you have right now is it.

What the question to ask yourself (and her eventually) is: can both of you lead happy and full lives in this grey area? Being married , but not together as best friends and lovers. I am not saying divorce is the answer, but usually when no compromise can be reached and it has dragged on, is that any way to continue exsisting?

If all the reasons to stay married outweigh the one's not to stay married and all her kindness and her wonderfulness outweigh her closemindedness then you have your answer. Continue lving just as you are. KNowing this is how it is and no amount of all the good that makes you changes her mind about your needs.

QUOTE]


Very good question, exactly where I am at in life right now. Is love enough? My idea of love and hers are apparantly not the same. The whole idea of comming out to my spouse, for me was, that I wanted a complete union. A total melting of souls. A deeper love and emtional connection. I cannot lye next to someone every night while I cannot be myself in front of her. Maybe if some of the unaccpeting SO's heard this, they would definatley want to understand this wonderful man who is not like any other man they have ever dated. It least thats what she said about me when she decided to marry me.

No she wasn't wild in bed, neither was I. We were both novices. And I totally think that the bedroom and the rest of the world are two different things.

[Helana]

Maybe if some of the unaccpeting SO's heard this, they would definatley want to understand this wonderful man who is not like any other man they have ever dated. It least thats what she said about me when she decided to marry me.


That is one of the saddest ironies of all. We are overwhelmingly caring, sensitive guys who avoid all that macho BS and they like this aspect of us like but mention that we like to wear a skirt and many of them go ballistic. As Mr Spock says "That is illogical Jim"

[Katie Ashe]

Helana just about summed it up for me a few post ago. Your thoughs in my book are right on. I see we will be able to live in peace one day. I have way too many thoughs to type and keep you interested.

Men are not kings, women are not queens. If you have one man and one women on a deserted planet. One doesn't accept the other for being different. The cause is already lost, before it began.

[Ashley in Virginia]

Why should they have to accept it? If they are in a committed relationship with a person who turns out was lying to them to entire time they were together, why should they have to be happy about it? Alot of posts I read are woe is me, she doesn't accept that her run-of-the-mill normal guy is fru fru. I think it should be perfectly in her right to leave as trust is key in any relationship.

[TGMarla]

Helena, I read your post this morning, and once again you articulately and intelligently sum it up better than anyone else. Great post! I agree completely. And Ashley in Jersey, you obviously don't understand things. Whereas you are correct in your assessment that SO's have a right to be put off by the whole thing, you need to take under consideration the reasons some of us kept this dirty little secret from them in the first place.

I'll speak only for myself here, but I'd wager good money that I speak for a lot of others, too. I love my wife. Dearly. She is the best human being I have ever met. If not, she's real close to it, anyway. My reason for not telling her this when we first met is simple. Fear. I was afraid of losing her. She even admitted to me the other night that had she known, she would have ran, and I'd have lost her. We who have hidden this from our wives all feel the same way. If I can conceal this little aspect of my personality from her, I can have her in my life. If I do not, I will lose her. You see, the consequences of being forthright with her would have been devastating.

It may be lying, but it is only a lie of omission. My feelings for her are very true. Are you so secure and are you all that that you can ignore something very special in your life knowing that it would happen again for you sometime soon? Can you turn your back on what may be the best thing that ever happened to you? Can you just fall in love again next week?

Do not judge, for you are not without your own faults. Sure, I made this bed, and I'm lying in it right now. But at least I try to make the bed in the morning, and do the best I can each day. I love her. I hurt her. I will fight for her. I will hope that she can still accept me. Am I so bad for all of that? It's only my opinion, but I think not.