View Full Version : Questions for Divorce
sierra_g
12-06-2012, 01:24 AM
Hello all! First off, I started hormones and I started a blog. I don't know if I can put the link on here, so I won't for now. Let me know on that. Otherwise, private message me for the link.
Anyway...
So, there are 2 parts that exSO is trying to get me on. I would like your help, if I can get it.
1) I was supposed to go full time on Jan 1, but because exSO keeps stopping me, I haven't even started coming out to my daughters (1 and 3) yet. Do any of you know of any articles that talk about benefits of coming out to children at a young age? Anything surrounding that is beneficial as well. Acceptance at a young age, being brought up in an environment, etc.
2) exSO is trying to get it ordered that if I change my last name when I change my first name, that she can change the kids' last names to hers. I remember hearing on here a few times that it is safer to change your last name. What is the argument on that?
Thank you all so much for your help :)
DebbieL
12-06-2012, 01:55 AM
Idaho is a bit of a "red state". The Courts in Idaho have ruled that discrimination based on Gender Identity is illegal.
The bigger issue is whether your wife has plugged into the "Network" of fundamentalist Christian social workers and judges. Generally, if you are making your child support payments, she has to prove that your represent a clear and immediate danger to the kids. Your gender identity can't be used, but if you have ever been arrested, institutionalized, or have a history of violence on the official records at school, work, or other public records, then you have a problem.
Even then, the courts are reluctant to push for no visitation, and would rather opt for supervised visitation. During the supervised visitation, the supervisor will try to goad you into losing your temper, she will take notes, most of which are based on the assumption that you are some kind of pervert and she just needs to see things in your behavior and conversation.
If your kids are 10 or older, they should be fine with knowing. They probably know it anyway, she has probably told them already, or will in hopes of making the kids hate you. The best thing to do is tell them up front, and show them some pictures of sierra while you have unsupervised visitation so that they can ask any questions they might have. It's important for them to know that Sierra is NOT the only reason you are divorced. When my kids found out, my ex told them, hoping to make them hate me, and they didn't believe her. When my ex asked me for pictures, I told her to put the kids on the phone (I was 2000 miles away at the time). I told the kids it was true, and that it was one of the reasons we got divorced, but it was also because I worked too many hours, because I didn't spend enough time with their mom, and because mom had fallen in love with the man who is now her husband and I wanted her to be happy.
After that, my ex couldn't use that power as blackmail or threat. My kids loved me, and still do. My son even pointed out "You work very hard and pay child support, mom and dad J (her new husband) have 6 degrees between the two of them that they got while collecting disability, and are still working minimum wage jobs. Seems like your hard work was the right thing to do.
The one thing you do need to do is make peace with your SO both as your male side and as Sierra. The state won't let you not pay child support, so she should not attempt to take away your visitation. You can offer to be more flexible, or even let her come with you on some of your week-ends with the kids. If the ONLY reason your wife divorced you was because you were TS, then she will eventually realize that she probably made a mistake in letting you go.
Changing your last name is a mixed bag. If you are planning to go into "stealth mode" after transition and wipe out all of your history as a male, and want to make sure that nobody traces you back, then changing your last name makes sense. On the other hand, it also makes it harder to maintain credit history, medical history, and other history which you may not remember to change until it's too late. If you only change your first name, you can more easily reference the history. Not a significant difference.
When I chose my femme name, I wanted a common name since my male name, Rex, was already a bit too distinct. I chose Lawrence as a last name, because that was my mother's mother's mother's maiden name - and she had homesteaded in Missouri where she lost her land (women couldn't own land), and Montana where she got the land and sold it to the railroad. The then started a business in a mining camp (Bath & Laundry), which paid much more than mining.
sierra_g
12-06-2012, 03:45 AM
Thanks for the response, Debbie.
Idaho is a bit of a "red state". The Courts in Idaho have ruled that discrimination based on Gender Identity is illegal.
Where did you hear that about a gender identity anti-discrimination policy? A couple days ago, we got our first anti-discrimination policy, but it is only for the city of Boise.
The bigger issue is whether your wife has plugged into the "Network" of fundamentalist Christian social workers and judges. Generally, if you are making your child support payments, she has to prove that your represent a clear and immediate danger to the kids. Your gender identity can't be used, but if you have ever been arrested, institutionalized, or have a history of violence on the official records at school, work, or other public records, then you have a problem.
My judge, although conservative and Mormon, is the most liberal judge in town. My arrest record has a Minor intoxicated from when I was 20. I pleaded guilty and the judge let me off with a fine.
If your kids are 10 or older, they should be fine with knowing. They probably know it anyway, she has probably told them already, or will in hopes of making the kids hate you. The best thing to do is tell them up front, and show them some pictures of sierra while you have unsupervised visitation so that they can ask any questions they might have. It's important for them to know that Sierra is NOT the only reason you are divorced.
As I said in my original statement, they are 1 and 3.
Also, exSO is making it blatant that the divorce is because I left because I want to be a woman.
Changing your last name is a mixed bag. If you are planning to go into "stealth mode" after transition and wipe out all of your history as a male, and want to make sure that nobody traces you back, then changing your last name makes sense. On the other hand, it also makes it harder to maintain credit history, medical history, and other history which you may not remember to change until it's too late. If you only change your first name, you can more easily reference the history. Not a significant difference.
It is purely for stealth mode. I've heard of transgendered people going stealth and then someone does a Google search and pulls up that there is not mention of Joan Davis before 2012, but no mention of John Davis after 2012, and their pictures sure do look alike. Are they family? Here is an old picture of this John guy in a dress on this facebook. All of a sudden you have another Gwen Araujo story.
All the records are easily switchable. Even my diploma and transcripts are switchable.
ChelseaErtel
12-06-2012, 10:47 AM
I'm still with my wife and we are working on staying together. If that works in the long run only time will tell.
I plan on changing my last name too. The reason is I want to remove any social issues my children my experience. My son will be fine but my 13 year old I want to protect until college. Maybe not the best but that's what my wife wants. I would like to tell her sooner and that has not been decided yet but no sooner than when she is 15.
My heart goes out to you. Good luck with your family and your transition.
Aprilrain
12-06-2012, 10:56 AM
the younger the better. Small children just accept what is with out any ego getting in the way.
My kids are 2 and 6 and the 2 year old has had no issues with my transition what so ever where as the 6 year old has had a slightly harder time of adapting to calling me April instead of dad.
sierra_g
12-06-2012, 11:08 AM
the younger the better. Small children just accept what is with out any ego getting in the way.
My kids are 2 and 6 and the 2 year old has had no issues with my transition what so ever where as the 6 year old has had a slightly harder time of adapting to calling me April instead of dad.
May I ask why you chose to have your children call you by your first name? We've talked about different names the kids can call me, but I was always brought up where it is a sign of disrespect to have a child call you by your first name.
Also, is there any chance you would be willing to expand on that in a separate message that I could use for the psychologist?
Aprilrain
12-06-2012, 11:16 AM
imagine your child saying DAD! loudly in the woman's restroom and you will know why i want my kids to call me April instead!
sierra_g
12-06-2012, 01:45 PM
imagine your child saying DAD! loudly in the woman's restroom and you will know why i want my kids to call me April instead!
Whenever the kids call me by my first name (male), I usually correct them with "Call me Oma" but they go back to Dad immediately.
DebbieL
12-06-2012, 03:48 PM
Thanks for the response, Debbie.
Where did you hear that about a gender identity anti-discrimination policy? A couple days ago, we got our first anti-discrimination policy, but it is only for the city of Boise.
http://www.aclu.org/hiv-aids_lgbt-rights/know-your-rights-transgender-people-and-law
Find Idaho
My judge, although conservative and Mormon, is the most liberal judge in town. My arrest record has a Minor intoxicated from when I was 20. I pleaded guilty and the judge let me off with a fine.
As I said in my original statement, they are 1 and 3.
Also, exSO is making it blatant that the divorce is because I left because I want to be a woman.
Unless gender transition in Idaho is a CRIME, you should have the same rights as any other husband in the divorce. The bad news - those rights are minimal. Even if you were not in transition, the court assumes that the divorce is because the husband has done something so terrible that the wife must leave the security of the home. When the "Uniform dissolution of Marriage Act" was drafted and adopted in 1976, divorce was very hard for a woman and a husband who was abusive, drunk, or violent could end up paying only Alimony, which the woman would lose as soon as she got remarried. Essentially she was trapped as a single mom, and the Alimony was often the same as welfare. Even no-fault divorces usually came with a history of violence, domestic disturbance calls, detox centers, arrests, and other records showing that the man SHOULD have been forced to pay more.
To attempt to make it easier for women to get herself and her children out of a dangerous situation, the laws were changed to protect the mother and children. By default, the mother gets custody of the children, and the father gets visitation for 2 days every other weekend or one day a week. The minimum child support is roughly the equivalent of 1/2 the after tax income. Starts at 25% and reduces down gradually to 21% as the income goes up. The percentage is on the combined income of both parents, so if your wife's income goes to twice as much as yours, you might see a drop of 4% of the combined income, barely worth mentioning. On the other hand, if your income goes up, unless you have stipulated no increases (because she is getting married), her child support automatically increases. On the other hand, if you quite you high pay job and work for minimum wage, the child support can be based on your "imputed income" - what you would have been making if you had stayed in your high pay job. This can be a real problem if you get fired for transition, since transition was your choice. Transitioning earlier is a good idea, since you may be able to get back to your higher income level later.
There are ways impact the default judgement, but they always have to be backed up by evidence. For example, your ex would have to have admissible evidence that your visitation was harmful to the children and therefore you should not be allowed visitation. The bad news is that this evidence could come in the form of a letter from a school social worker, or a family therapist.
Bottom line, for the non-custodial father, divorce is probably the worst and most painful thing you could possibly go through, even if you weren't transgendered. When I was going through my divorce, and for a few years after, I tried a number of men's support groups for noncustodial fathers and found it incredibly depressing. The horror stories of how the courts treat even otherwise law abiding and loyal husbands, who only got divorced because their wife wanted to marry someone else, was horrid. I think the most shocking story was when a non-custodial father who had was behind 6 months on child support due to a job loss - was turned over to a bounty hunter for 25% of the back child support, but not told why he was wanted. The bounty hunter found him easily, kicked in the door, and the man, who was near sighted and couldn't see what was happening was shot to death because the bounty hunter thought he was reaching for a gun - he was reaching for his glasses - but bounty hunters are allowed to use deadly force if they feel it is necessary.
The best revenge of all - is to LIVE WELL! Regardless of WHAT you do, your wife will not want you to see the kids. Quite simply, when you only see them 2 days out of 14, you will spoil them rotten, you'll want to hear the same goofy jokes they've been telling over and over for a month, and you will find it funny. You will let them eat what they want, you will take them to do fun things, and you will want them to be happy. It will be like a 2 day party, from friday night until Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon. But as soon as you say it's time to pack up to go home, you can see the change in your kids. The stop giggling, they start acting like they are going back to prison, they may even stop talking entirely. It's literally like they are going to a funeral, and it's yours. They love you even more, but they know they won't see you for 12 more days, and they hate not being able to spend more time with you - and they will blame Mom - and anybody in mom's life. They WILL act out - they are angry and they can't get you two back together again. To make matters worse, it's mom who makes them do their homework, who makes them eat a balanced diet, who has to stretch her budget by making cheap food, and who has to say no when they want to spend money she doesn't have, spend time with friends she doesn't trust, and has to do the discipline. Things that would have been YOUR job if you had still been married.
All of this will happen whether you transition or not. Unless you are willing to completely give up the possibility of transition, you will probably move out of Idaho to a place that is more transgender friendly, where you have legal rights and legal protections, and where there is a good support network. When you move, the court will make no accommodation for that. You can't deduct your travel expenses from your child support, you can't change the visitation to unlimited access for 4 weeks, and you can't insist on taking the kids out of state. When they turn 16, they will have the legal right to choose which guardian they want to stay with, but they would still have to prove that their mother was harmful to them, rather than just saying, I just want to move in with "Mom Sierra". Even if she does move in, you will have to impose the discipline, set the rules, and be the heavy - so she may end up deciding to move back.
You are transsexual and this is now recognized as being a medical condition that is like being gay. It's not a choice, it's part of who you are, and the best course of action for you is to transition. Statistically, if you do NOT transition, you have a higher chance of suicide, accidental death, or early heart attack or stroke. The medical perspective on transsexualism has shifted radically in the last 4 years, largely because there have been some significant empirical studies, and investigations into cyber-bullying related to suicide has shown that many of those teenage boys who committed suicide were transsexual or transgender.
The biggest challenge to transition will be financial. When you are trying to live on about 25% of your gross income, roughly 1/2 your after tax income, there is not much left for laser, hormones, electrolysis, or SRS, not to mention 2 wardrobes. You'd almost be better off to just do all the legal paperwork, move to a TS friendly state, and start living full time as Sierra, get a new job, and get through the SRS as quickly as possible. After the GRS, you would legally be protected as a woman.
It is purely for stealth mode. I've heard of transgendered people going stealth and then someone does a Google search and pulls up that there is not mention of Joan Davis before 2012, but no mention of John Davis after 2012, and their pictures sure do look alike. Are they family? Here is an old picture of this John guy in a dress on this facebook. All of a sudden you have another Gwen Araujo story.
All the records are easily switchable. Even my diploma and transcripts are switchable.
You should be aware that there are many jobs where you are better off being honest and telling the employer that you are transsexual than trying to hide it. Jobs in the financial sector, including insurance, brokerage, banking, or even health care, usually require a full background check. Private sector would hire professional investigators whose job is to find out everything they can about you, including your history, what you looked like as a child, how you grew up, and how you became who you are. To make matters worse, if you ever miss 3 child support payments in a row, your wages could be garnished with it becoming a matter of public record that the payments are to you ex-wife, and they would have your ex-wife's contact information.
There are so many companies who have aggressive diversity policies who would actually consider your being transgender to be an ASSET rather than a liability. Which would you rather work for, a company that knows you are transgender and actually considers that a GOOD thing, or a company that does not know you are transgender and would fire you if they found out - because you did not tell them from the start (fraudulent employment application).
Being honest about being in transition or transitioned is actually the best way to get access to higher paying jobs, since it becomes a sign of your honesty and integrity that you could have been deceptive and chose to be honest. You may even find that doors open to new opportunities that would not have been there if you had remained a man or tried to "sneak in".
The same is true with relationships. After SRS, you might be able to pull of passing yourself off as a girl, but do you want someone who only accepts you based on the lie and would possibly hurt or kill you if he discovered the truth? Or would you rather go out with him a few times, show him what a wonderful partner you could be, and then let him know that you were once a boy and that makes you want to be even MORE of a WOMAN than a woman who was born female. If you tell him early enough, he can decide to stay with you, or go, and you can move on.
Consider the positives you have going in your favor. You don't have PMS, you don't have to worry about getting pregnant, you LIKE getting dressed up and looking pretty, you enjoy sex more, and you can understand the wants, desires, and needs of a man far better than a GG can.
You've confronted your own sexuality and sexual identity, and embraced it. That makes you more whole and complete as a woman than most people ever have the chance to be.
sierra_g
12-07-2012, 01:21 PM
Some key points that I feel are important to your statement:
I am a website designer. I work from home. I work with a couple companies. They send me contracts, I complete them and send them back. They don't care who or what I am, as long as I get the jobs done and under budget.
In about 2 years, I may move to the Hawthorne District in Portland. Close to beach, close to mountains, and chock full of acceptance.
She has no job.
I will be fully transitioning. It is about 5 years down the line, but it is happening.
In Idaho, the kids choose at 12.
I love making sandwiches! lol
Thanks :)
Tammy V
12-07-2012, 01:26 PM
It is ok to post your blog link here. I have mine in my signature on each post. Good luck with the divorce and I know it is hard. I will be facing divorce also soon but in my situation there are no children and no love lost. We are good friends though and I do not want to split up with her right now but where I live you have to be seperated for one year to be able to divorce. I need to get the wheels rolling so that I can marry again (a man this time) after I fully transition. I am sorry to hear that your ex is making things difficult for you but this is something that has to be overcome and can be a big legal hurdle. All the best.....
sierra_g
12-07-2012, 02:22 PM
Thanks, I just added it :)
kimdl93
12-07-2012, 02:25 PM
I can't give legal advice. What does your attorney tell you? As for the kids, have got a therapist that can help find the answers you seek?
sierra_g
12-07-2012, 03:11 PM
I cannot afford a lawyer. They want $1000 retainer. I have $50, and nobody wants websites this close to the beginning of the year, so all my money is going into rent and presents for my kids. I talked to a lawyer service that is supposed to work with me on money, and they said that they would do it for a total of $1000 up front. I told them that I don't have money, and they were shocked that I didn't have at least $5000 in the bank. They then proceeded to tell me that most law firms won't touch me because I've already turned in my reply. It is apparently like taking a car engine apart, then hiring a mechanic.
Ex found the kids a therapist and psychologist that is very closed minded and has requested that I find him some sort of documentation that backs up that I should come out to them now, instead of walking away from them. My therapist doesn't have much on it either way (since I don't have insurance, I don't see her much anyway). I've gone to TransParent and some other sites, I've had some friends send me stuff on Facebook, but I still don't have much. I don't need legal advice from anyone here (but if someone were to offer it, I wouldn't turn it down!) I am mainly looking for resources, case studies, reports, personal experiences, etc. Anything that backs me up at least a little bit.
kimdl93
12-07-2012, 04:19 PM
Seriously, Sierra, you need to get a lawyer, even if it means borrowing the money. This won't go well if you are not represented by competent counsel.
sierra_g
12-07-2012, 04:43 PM
Seriously, Sierra, you need to get a lawyer, even if it means borrowing the money. This won't go well if you are not represented by competent counsel.
There isn't anyone to borrow money from. This is partially why she started it right now. She knew that I would be stuck. She also knew that since it is end of year, most firms have already done their pro-bono work. Unfortunately, I am going to go through this storm alone. As soon as I can though, anything that goes unfavorable for me, I am going to appeal with a lawyer against her. If I have to keep appealing till the kids are of age, I will. I'm not requesting custody, just joint custody with unsupervised visitation. There is nothing that can be held against me, and in Idaho they aren't allowed to hold gender or preference against me thanks to Shannon Minter and McGriff v Idaho (my friend's case).
Our temporary custody orders hearing is on the 20th, and I should be able to get through that. In February, I should have more money, and by March, taxes will be back. If I can prolong it till then, I'll be able to at least hire a lawyer to fight for me in court. Unfortunately, that is still $1000 per time they go into court. I really do wish that the money was there. My bank just turned me down for a loan, I got a $300 credit card, but that doesn't help, and is helping to pay my bills this month. I really am screwed. I keep looking for a LGBT scholarship or grant, but the only ones I find are explicitly not for for family law cases. ACLU, nor Lambda want to touch it unless it becomes a pure discrimination against me. Even then, it is iffy.
Tammy, I cannot post my blog link because I am requesting donations. Sorry. Again, if anyone wants the link, please message me for it :)
ReineD
12-07-2012, 06:17 PM
1) I was supposed to go full time on Jan 1, but because exSO keeps stopping me, I haven't even started coming out to my daughters (1 and 3) yet. Do any of you know of any articles that talk about benefits of coming out to children at a young age? Anything surrounding that is beneficial as well. Acceptance at a young age, being brought up in an environment, etc.
Obviously, a TS undergoing transition and living full time (at work, and with all family and friends) cannot continue to present as male just for the kids. This is dishonest.
Although the ideal is for both parents to be on the same page about the transition (thus avoiding placing the kids in the middle), if you waited until the last moment to tell your wife about being transsexual (or even that you wanted to present as a woman) and then you left your family within a few months in order to live as a woman, then she is not in the wrong when she says that you left the family to live as a woman ... since regardless of your motives for leaving, this is what did happen.
Once you have transitioned, are living full time, and have changed your name and all your other gender markers, then this will be difficult to hide from your kids, but for their sake I hope that you and your ex can get together and agree on what to tell them. I agree, the younger kids are when told the better, but not when they sense tension or disagreement between their parents, which they will feel regardless of the news they are given. Also, from an acceptance point of view whether you tell them when they are 1 and 3, or 2 and 4 will not make a huge difference.
So, please keep working with your ex over this. It is about your children's happiness and peace of mind and not about a power struggle between you and your ex.
2) exSO is trying to get it ordered that if I change my last name when I change my first name, that she can change the kids' last names to hers. I remember hearing on here a few times that it is safer to change your last name. What is the argument on that?
I'd continue to seek legal opinion on this. But I have a question ... if you choose to no longer share a last name with your daughters, then why does it matter what last name they have? If you change your last name, then I can see why your wife would want the kids to have a last name in common with at least one of their parents. Unless you want to change their last name to your new last name?
Another thing you might want to think about, if you want to avoid making an issue about this for now, is that should you maintain a good relationship with your children while they are growing up, they will be free to change their own last names when they come of age if they want to change back to your birth last name.
sierra_g
12-07-2012, 07:09 PM
Reine, I agree that it is dishonest. That is why we need to start transitioning them now.
I didn't wait to tell her, you should know that. She was the first one to know. She was on the journey with me. I thought I was just a CD, but then the more that I read, the more the pieces fit, and although at first I denied it to myself, very shortly after, I admitted it to her and then she started telling everyone. We tried for a while to make it work, but I was going to fast for her, and we couldn't find a middle ground. I finally couldn't take the fighting, the constant digs, the endless pain she was causing me and I was causing her. It wasn't good for the kids to see and hear us fight, so after everything had been said and done, I left. After I left, I continued to pay all her bills, then all my bills, then give her spending money, then give me spending money. I always made sure she and the kids were taken care of. She constantly thought I was trying to hide money, or play games.
If she could've accepted me as transgendered, I would've stayed. She wanted me to be something that I just wasn't. I never was. It is hard to believe that I left in July. It seems like so much longer. I really hope that one day, we can be better around each other, and we have our good times. Within the past few days, we've gotten better. I hope it sticks around till after Christmas, but I worry that it will go as soon as money comes between us again (every single payday).
One of her biggest problems right now is that my therapist, when searching for a diagnosis, stuck on Transvestic Fetishism, which is a Paraphilia, and one Para can transform into another, so she told ex that I could go into some of the darker ones, and could possibly be a danger to the kids. At that point, ex was done. She heard what she wanted to hear. Since then, therapist has told ex that it was not the final diagnosis, but now therapist is incompetent. She trusts the fleeting diagnosis from therapist, but not the final diagnosis (wait, what?). I understand protecting your kids, but there has never been any reason, ever to not trust me.
As far as telling them goes, the kids' psychologist sounds like he wants me to stay out of their lives. Ex is talking about 2 or more years before it is even brought into play. I am attempting to fight that, again, if ANYONE has links to articles, etc, I would love to be able to pass more info on.
Lastly, the name change. They have a strong family name, and there is no reason to change that. If it wasn't for my trying to go stealth, I wouldn't change mine. I may have no choice, I may have to keep my birth name. Of course I will keep a good relationship with my kids. I love them more than life! I will never let her do anything to keep me from my kids.
Cindi Johnson
12-07-2012, 08:27 PM
Having children is a very long term, very expensive, and extremely important responsibility. Your youngest is just a year old. And now you decide you must transition? You really had no idea of your nature just a year ago? Most of us have a pretty good idea that something's amiss by the time we reach puberty.
Plus, you have only $50 to your name? I hate to be rude, or cruel, or obnoxious, or all of the above, but please don't expect a whole lot of sympathy from a judge. Heck, I've got a full blown case of TG'ism and I don't even have a whole lot of sympathy for you. And any judge that you deal with will not likely know a lot about transsexualism, thus will be less inclined to view your situation favorably.
For your kids, yes, I do feel bad for them. I've got plenty of sympathy for them. Who's gonna raise them? It's a BIG job, you know. And who's gonna pay for the costs of raising them? You? Your ex? Taxpayers?
I raised a kid on my own. It ain't easy for a kid to be with only one parent.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out (for the sake of other young transsexuals who may read this thread) that it's best to try to view the future honestly before conceiving offspring.
Cindi
docrobbysherry
12-07-2012, 09:48 PM
Sierra, I'm sorry! I could chat here, like the other nice posters that want to help u. But, nothing they've said will help u in court. I have LOTS of legal experience. Including a divorce the took 7 years to finalize! I'm not going to sugar coat this:
1. Without a good attorney, you're screwed!
2. Want to see your kids grow up? No attorney? Forget about it!
3. Name change? They're not going to see u again until they're 18. So, why not? Your attorney mite object----? Oh yeah! U don't have one!
4. U have no one or nowhere u can borrow $1000? (Which is "chump change" to a good attorney). You're screwed!
MonctonGirl
12-07-2012, 10:40 PM
You have not said whether or not your kids still live under your roof.
If they don't, then they are already used to the idea of you not being there.
If you are choosing what "you" want ( transitioning ) as your priority
( as opposed to remaining male, being their "dad" and I'd assume being more
welcome in their lives by the standards of your exSO ) then why not take the
opportunity to go and do your thing, put your money toward "you" and your transition
and when it is done ... you can maybe visit them. And maybe they will like you. Maybe.
If your kids are male ( didn't notice if you indicated ) it will probably be harder on them
to know you are in transit than if they are female - as there will be more abuse FOR THEM
from their schoolmates. Be realistic - you know what boys would say to other boys whose dad was ...
See this from exSO's perspective:
The kids have their "dad's" name now ...as is tradition.
But soon they won't have a dad because he's choosing to do something untraditional
( MEMBERS - Don't start with the flames over my statement of "choice"
- he made a choice to have kids first before transitioning and now they
are going to be affected by that choice - someone impartial must speak for them )
To DECREASE resistance between you and exSO .... and to protect your kids
from being the kids whose dad became a freak ( you know how people talk )
.... why not AGREE and ENCOURAGE that name change and give it to your exSO
for Xmas... ( pay for it. )
Then ask her - point blank -
"Would you prefer that I was no longer in their life?"
Regardless of her answer - ask for it in writing.
Ask her if you can write to them and if she will read the letters
if she'd have the right to edit anything she did not want them to know.
Understand that only one person caused this mess - a person who decided to have kids
regardless of whether or not he was a man. A real man would stay male for the kids.
( Hopefully that's not insulting - you've made it clear you are not a man )
But these are your kids. What do you think will be best for THEM?
( Not best for "you" .... best for "them"? )
Is it .... fighting over them? ( No, that's a control issue between you and exSO ... unless you want to take them now and be 100% responsible for them ... which will derail your transition )
Is it ... allowing them to be party to rumors, scorn, indignity and abuse when people find out you transitioned?
( A name change for their sake may actually be a good idea - regardless of your ego )
I didn't read anything about your family's role in the lives of your kids.
Grandma & Grandpa? Aunts & Uncles? Cousins? Are they a part of their lives?
If not ... they suffer no loss.
If so ... there may be more to this story that would sway my standpoint.
If there is a lot of present love and support ( eg. daily, weekly, visits - not cross country cards on occasions ) then you may have a solid argument for denying their surname change.
ReineD
12-08-2012, 02:00 AM
Then ask her - point blank -
"Would you prefer that I was no longer in their life?"
Regardless of her answer - ask for it in writing.
Ask her if you can write to them and if she will read the letters
if she'd have the right to edit anything she did not want them to know.
Oh, I think the worst thing possible for the kids would be to not have one of their parents in their lives. This would absolutely NOT be a good idea, no matter what gender their father is.
Kids need to feel safe and feel loved unconditionally and I'm sure that Sierra loves her kids. If parents can keep their differences aside and place the kids' best interests first, then hopefully they'll come out of this relatively unscathed. And as Sierra's daughters grow, hopefully Sierra can take her cues from THEM about how involved they want Sierra to be with their friends, their school, etc.
Bree-asaurus
12-08-2012, 02:35 AM
Oh, I think the worst thing possible for the kids would be to not have one of their parents in their lives. This would absolutely NOT be a good idea, no matter what gender their father is.
Kids need to feel safe and feel loved unconditionally and I'm sure that Sierra loves her kids. If parents can keep their differences aside and place the kids' best interests first, then hopefully they'll come out of this relatively unscathed. And as Sierra's daughters grow, hopefully Sierra can take her cues from THEM about how involved they want Sierra to be with their friends, their school, etc.
YES! Divorce doesn't HAVE to be hard on the kids. My parents got divorced amicably and my sister and I came out just fine. We love both of our parents. I think the worst thing for the kids is when the parents hate each other and share this bias with their children... whether both parents are in their lives or not. Children need a stable, loving family, however that family is organized.
MonctonGirl
12-08-2012, 09:13 PM
YES! Divorce doesn't HAVE to be hard on the kids.
This is not a typical divorce ... that would be much easier and family, and friends of the children, would know many others involved in typical divorce. But back in 1920 it would have been a major issue to be swept under the rug.
My parents got divorced amicably and my sister and I came out just fine.
Glad you made it here to where we all dress up as women ( sorry - couldn't resist ).
I think the worst thing for the kids is when the parents hate each other and share this bias with their children... whether both parents are in their lives or not.
My intention is to reduce the offensive standpoint of the matter.
But as for "the worst thing" - in this case it would be emotional damage to the children - due the primary issue of their father's change ... or secondary issues of scorn and indignity from peers and prejudice from adults.
Children need a stable, loving family, however that family is organized.
Yes they do. Is the OP what you'd call the provider of a stable situation at the moment?
Did you miss the topic?
Someday, hopefully she can be ... but at the moment, OP is best to get her own issues sorted
and best for kids to have a low tension situation - which may only come from disappearing for a while.
Bree-asaurus
12-08-2012, 09:56 PM
MonctonGirl, picking apart and turning what I'm saying into random tangents doesn't achieve anything but confusion.
1) Of course it's not a typical divorce. It's also not the 1920's. What does any of that have to do with me saying that divorce doesn't have to be hard on the kids?
2) ehh joke... hah... I guess???
3) Is this a battle of who thinks what is worse? Parents hating each other also causes emotional damage. If you want to argue about what emotional damage is worse, keep me out of it.
4) How does me saying that kids need love and stability somehow imply that the OP is stable? Where did I say anything about how I think their family should be? I shared no opinion on whether or not the parents should stick together.
I am posting this here so the OP doesn't assume what you're implying is what I meant. If you want to reply to this, please do so by PM because it's off topic.
sierra_g
12-09-2012, 02:14 AM
My original 2 questions, so maybe we can stay on topic and I will make them slightly more clear. Here you go:
1) Do any of you know of any articles, reports, etc that support me coming out to my 2 daughters (ages 1 and 3) now rather than waiting until their mother and social groups have jaded them? If you can please provide links, I would really appreciate it. I have an appointment with my daughter's psychologist on the 12th, and he requested information. At the current time, he is pretty much set on the idea that it would be a bad idea, so anything that I can provide him with would be beneficial.
2) What are the benefits or negative aspects of changing your last name when you change your first name? Do you feel that a spouse should have the right to change your children's names to her maiden name if you change your name? Would you change your children's names to your new last name? I ask because it is in the divorce paperwork.
Ok, so now to address some of you.
Cindi Johnson: Yes, I found myself wishing I was a girl at around 9. I know it went earlier because others noticed it in me when I was in preschool. Did I know that I was transgendered at that age? No. I didn't even know what transgender was until around March or April of this year. I had absolutely no clue. Guys in girls clothes were gay queens who performed at night in clubs, or got off on it. The ones in porn were photoshopped, and sex changes were for gay guys that wanted to not be gay anymore. I was clueless. It wasn't until I joined this site, as a sissy crossdresser, that I finally started connecting the pieces. Then through therapy, did I sort everything out and we both came to the conclusion that I am transgendered and was truly born a woman stuck in a man's body.
Yes Cindi, I only have $50 to my name. I am sorry that we cannot all drive a Bentley, have butlers, and live the posh life. There are people out there that don't know where their next meal is coming from, I thank God that I am not there, but I am also not able to afford much. I live in a tiny apartment, I ride a bicycle because I cannot afford a car, and I work to support both my household and my ex's. I pay for all her and the kids' bills. She lives off the state, and me. I don't have medical insurance, but I make sure the kids are taken care of.
I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me. I expect for human decency, and a fair court case. Full blown case of TGism? Where are you going exactly? Please don't use "transsexual" as it implies that it effects my sexuality.
Lastly, congratulations that you raised your child up. I am happy for you. I am trying to make sure my kids are raised properly in a good home. I provide one, and although there are many things I would like to change, I feel that their mother provides a good enough home that she will not intentionally damage them. I do, however, fear that she will jade them against me if she gets everything she wants in her case. I feel it should be noted that I am very happy with my children and would never change having them for anything. They are being brought up in an ugly situation, but they will be stronger because of it. I don't worry about how they will grow up, I worry about the poor kids who will never get the chance to. Transgendered people, I do hope you can bear children or that you already have. It is one of the greatest experiences ever.
DocShrobbery: Yes, I have nowhere and no one I can borrow money from. I will have to just do my best to make my case. Why would you think they won't see me till they are 18? According to a precedent set forth by Shannon Minter and my friend Theron McGriff, in McGriff v Idaho, they cannot keep the kids away from me because of sexual preference or gender identity. Do you feel that I cannot defend myself in court? I am writing opening and closing statements, researching old cases, and coming up with questions and answers for the case. I am doing everything I can to get ready for it, and I am still a long ways away. The temporary orders hearing is on the 20th, and that one should be easy. I have everything that I need for that already created, and I am still looking for more to add.
MonctonGirl: My 2 daughters live with their mother. I will not ever abandon them. If something went wrong in this case, I would fight for them in appeals over and over and over until I finally win. I will never rest until I am happy with the outcome. If that means saving thousands of dollars and living in this apartment forever, then so be it. Your thoughts and judgements against me sickens me. I hope you do not have children.
Reine & Bree: Yes, thank you :)
MonctonGirl: I provide as stable a situation as possible. I am a great parent, and I've never done anything to harm them. The worst thing that happened was that I left the household because ex and I could not stop screaming at each other in front of the kids, and we couldn't find a middle ground. The therapist even recommended that I leave. Once I left, I continued to fully support the family, and even though ex couldn't stop screaming at me, I continued to try repeatedly to keep a relationship with her. We still talk and tomorrow morning, she is taking me to church with her and the kids.
Bree: XD
Ok, can we stay on topic now? Thank you everyone. ♥ to you all.
Also, a side note: Please stop trying to judge people. Unless someone comes up to you and asks "Do you think I am transgendered?" it is not your right (and is actually really offensive) to tell someone that they are/are not. I have been told repeatedly on here that I am not, and every single time, all I hear is hate speech.
I pass the finger test by nearly a full centimeter! In all gender tests I've ever taken, I test as Cisgendered FAB, and according to the DSM IV, I pass every single question in diagnosis. I've had a therapist and a psychologist tell me that I am transgendered, and my transgendered friends all say that I definitely am, no question. I am currently on HRT, under an Endocrinologist's care, and am very happy to be on them.
Thanks!
Saffron
12-09-2012, 06:17 AM
I cannot believe some of the answers in this thread. Being transsexual is not a sin! Would any of you say to a black man that it's best for the kids interest to go with their white mother in order to avoid all the jokes and racial comments? We need to learn how to deal with problems in life, not run from them.
To answer the original question, have you tried contacting genderspectrum? http://www.genderspectrum.org/
Also there's PFLAG: http://community.pflag.org/page.aspx?pid=209
arbon
12-09-2012, 09:21 AM
My original 2 questions, so maybe we can stay on topic and I will make them slightly more clear. Here you go:
1) Do any of you know of any articles, reports, etc that support me coming out to my 2 daughters (ages 1 and 3) now rather than waiting until their mother and social groups have jaded them? If you can please provide links, I would really appreciate it. I have an appointment with my daughter's psychologist on the 12th, and he requested information. At the current time, he is pretty much set on the idea that it would be a bad idea, so anything that I can provide him with would be beneficial.
2) What are the benefits or negative aspects of changing your last name when you change your first name? Do you feel that a spouse should have the right to change your children's names to her maiden name if you change your name? Would you change your children's names to your new last name? I ask because it is in the divorce paperwork.
# 1 - I don't know of any.
# 2 - Changing last name is not a bad idea. If I had it to do over (and I very well might change my name again because I feel like it is a liability to me if I move out of the area I am in) I would have changed my last name to a more common name that was not as easy to find in the search engines. My opinion - once a potential employer see's you've changed your name lots of them will scratch you off the list before you ever get a chance to explain / talk to them about it and show them what a real asset you will be. If that information about you is not as easy to find it may at least get you through the door to the interview. Also if do move to Oregon the gender marker is easier to change there - you cannot change it on your ID in Idaho without surgery.
Kaitlyn Michele
12-09-2012, 09:24 AM
sierra
there is no easy report or study to help you...
also, transition is very consuming...the last thing to worry about is last name changes..i don't know the law ...i do understand you may care alot, but to me the only thing that matters is that you and your family have a good quality of life as you transition...
fight the fights that MATTER
i have two wonderful teenage daughters.. i transitioned when they were 14 and 12...i was told by many that I was horrible...
but now, my oldest is in a great college, her college essay was about how she learned to accept me, and my youngest is thriving in high school...we are heading to ny together today to see a christmas show...we are a very good family
your wife's position is emotionally understandable...what you are doing is not great for the kids, lots of things are great for kids...but we all do what we must and hopefully keep the kids front and center...but you are allowed to live your own life, and its not destructive to your kids...especially galling to me is the position that we should not transition "for the kids"...
if you are truly transsexual, you will get more and depressed and isolated from experiencing life...ts people know this..
what kind of message is it to a kid to say DONT live your best life...how will your kids feel when they find out later in life that their dad lives in misery because their dad didn't transition because of them...what a burden...btw...that's what happened to my dear friend...she avoided transition for 10+ years...the kids won't talk to her now...they are angry and hurt because they feel they shouldv'e known..they are upset they never got a chance to support their dad...
people have told you in other threads things that were based on what you said and posted...you have to do what's right for you...think about what people say and do your thing..that's what life is...
in the end, if your wife reacts by USING the kids as a lever that is far far worse than their dad trying to make the best quality of life possible..
sierra_g
12-09-2012, 10:50 AM
I cannot believe some of the answers in this thread. Being transsexual is not a sin! Would any of you say to a black man that it's best for the kids interest to go with their white mother in order to avoid all the jokes and racial comments? We need to learn how to deal with problems in life, not run from them.
To answer the original question, have you tried contacting genderspectrum? http://www.genderspectrum.org/
Also there's PFLAG: http://community.pflag.org/page.aspx?pid=209
Thank you so much. Unfortunately, Gender Spectrum is for transgender children. I go to PFLAG, and have scoured their resources, but they don't have much, unfortunately. Thanks though.
Saffron
12-09-2012, 11:33 AM
what kind of message is it to a kid to say DONT live your best life...how will your kids feel when they find out later in life that their dad lives in misery because their dad didn't transition because of them...what a burden...btw...that's what happened to my dear friend...she avoided transition for 10+ years...the kids won't talk to her now...they are angry and hurt because they feel they shouldv'e known..they are upset they never got a chance to support their dad...
That's so true. When I was young my family never told me that my aunt had AIDS, I didn't know about it until she died, I wish they had told me before. Also I wish someone had told me about intersexuals, transsexuals, gender identity and such.
Parents usually try to protect their children from the world and don't realize that sometimes they're overprotecting them.
sierra_g
12-11-2012, 08:04 PM
Also I wish someone had told me about intersexuals, transsexuals, gender identity and such.
Parents usually try to protect their children from the world and don't realize that sometimes they're overprotecting them.
I've been watching Night Court. I watched it when I was a little kid. I thought I was about 10 or 11. I remember the transgender episode. I just watched it again yesterday. Dan Fielding's friend Chip comes to visit him, but has become Charlene. Charlene is a post-op transwoman. The entire cast deals with it wonderfully, except for Dan. Partially because Dan is a ignorant prick, and partially because Chip just said "Surprise" and didn't allow Dan to process. This was the first time I remember seeing someone that had GRS. I remember that I wished I could be a girl. My mom isn't exactly wonderful about anything LGBT related and if anyone has read my blog today, you know where she stands on this. I don't know if I had said anything because it was in 1985 and I was 6. I would guess I never did because if I had, I think I may have been put in the mental ward or put up for adoption.
docrobbysherry
12-11-2012, 08:19 PM
"DocShrobbery: Yes, I have nowhere and no one I can borrow money from. I will have to just do my best to make my case. Why would you think they won't see me till they are 18? According to a precedent set forth by Shannon Minter and my friend Theron McGriff, in McGriff v Idaho, they cannot keep the kids away from me because of sexual preference or gender identity. Do you feel that I cannot defend myself in court? I am writing opening and closing statements, researching old cases, and coming up with questions and answers for the case. I am doing everything I can to get ready for it, and I am still a long ways away. The temporary orders hearing is on the 20th, and that one should be easy. I have everything that I need for that already created, and I am still looking for more to add." Sierra
My experience with attorneys makes me worry, Sierra. The good ones like to win. And, they don't care how. I've seen lots of bald faced lying in court. And, not just by the opposing attorneys! If your wife is angry enuff, and has an experienced attorney, u could be in for some big surprises in court! Only a good, quick thinking attorney would know how to counter her tall tales.
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