the world we live in

[GabbiSophia]

So my SO and I went out to dinner with our best friends. Some how the subject came up about transgender. It know I shouldn't be suprised but man they are fast to say how gross it is or how they just dont understand. In todays world you would think they would be at least a little more open. As I listen it makes me retreat a little further into my mind. The wanting to be accepted as is is huge just because I would hate to lose those I care about. How dis those with close friends do it? I know it will take time. It just seems the end will be a seperation of families and that sucks.

[Beverley Sims]

It is gross to all until they find someone close to them that is CD or whatever.
Attitudes do mellow then.

[Kate Simmons]

People tend to babble on about things they do not understand. Most have very little empathy towards others. They tend to accuse us of being self centered when they, themselves, are as well. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. A true friend, however, will be your friend regardless. :)

[suzy1]

As you say Steph, it’s the world we live in. Can we change it? Some here have said we can. Personally I would not hold my breath.
But having said that I think Beverley makes an excellent point. It’s the best weapon you have to combat the negative reaction you might get.

All the best,

Suzy

[I Am Paula]

I've found that people fall into two camps. They either reject us completely, and can not be convinced otherwise, or they accept us for what we are. Those who do not accept can not be turned, so don't waste your breath. Cherish the ones who accept.-Celeste

[5150 Girl]

I'm with Bev on this one. I've seen first hand, people who would make fun and be nast about the topic untill they find out I'm TG. THen there is a clammer to try and understand

[Kelley]

Sometimes people say what they think they are expected to say and not necessarily what they really think. In a group of none CDs, non gays etc. if one stated that they thought CDing was ok then the group might just think they were a CDer or gay. That is the same reason we don't jump to defend CDing in a situation like that as that may tend to out us. Maybe if you had countered with "I knew a CD in high school and he was a great guy you know straight and all" it may have brought out a different opinion.

[Cynthia Anne]

I think Kelley makes a great point here! I have seen that be the case all to often!

[linda allen]

To most of the world, people are "male" or "female". Look at birth certificates, driver's licenses, public restooms, etc. That's the official view. Unless someone has read about or studied people who don't fit exactly into one of those categories, that person will view a transgender, transexual, crossdresser, whatever we identify as, as "different".

As Suzy posted, don't hold your breath waiting for that to change. It's human nature.

[Jenniferathome]

Well, I understand the "I just don't understand" part. Why should the mainstream population understand. You're white, do you "understand" what it's like to be black? No, you don't. And you never will. As for the gross part, this is where you can try to educate without coming out.

My dad who is in his early seventies always says "gross" when he sees two men together on TV or wherever. I always ask why he thinks it's gross. His answer is always the same, "two guys is just gross, I can't understand why they don't like women." "And how does this affect you, Dad?" So that's it. He can't understand and he voices that opinion. I don't understand either but I don't care because it doesn't affect me.

Ask the same question to your friends. How does is affect you enough to make it gross? Answers will astound.

[Dawn cd]

In that situation I would bring up the issue of transgender children, since they are less threatening. The media has featured many stories of transgender children who are bitterly unhappy unless they live as the other gender. Once the prejudiced person can accept the reality of gender disphoria in children—who are totally innocent of sex—he or she may be able to accept gender difficulties in other adults.

[kimdl93]

Ever wonder how those friends might react if they were taking about a loved one, instead of TG as an abstract notion?

[Danika140]

I solved this perplexing riddle of how to keep a close friend close. I stayed true to myself and who I am, remained honest and open to those I cared about. I quickly found out who my closest friends truly were.

I've found that the more honest, open and secure I am with myself, the more others are willing to accept it for what it is. This generally has lead to a friendly conversation, word of encouragement or they just accepted it and moved on.

[TGMarla]

Perhaps one of these days, people will wake up and realize that there are a helluva lot of crossdressers out there, whether they want to admit it or not. And one of those very same crossdressers is probably a close friend.

[melanie206]

There does seem to be a lot of us but still not holding my breath either. Human's seem to be predisposed to oppress the perceived "other". On the other hand, we've made legal progress and some young people I have encountered seem much more accepting than those middle aged and older.

[Stephanie47]

I think there is more acceptance among the general population in some areas than others. In Washington State same sex marriages became a fact this weekend. Hundreds were married. All the newscasts were gushing acceptance. Yet, almost fifty percent voted against it. The vast majority of state constitutions not define marriage as between one man and one woman. I suspect guys wearing dresses fall into the general non acceptance category. Of all the couples seen on the newscasts, I did not see one 'bride' in a bridal gown. It was either two woman dressed as women or two men dressed as men.

Yes, love may garnished a little acceptance from family members. But, there are many families who will shun their own who are gay or lesbian and cross dressers. It's a lot of NIMBY.

In my support group (PTSD) the issue of transgenders using the women's rest rooms at a local college came up. There was nothing but ill feelings expressed, including from the group leader. The views of the old farts of the 1960's still prevail. You younger CD-ers should be grateful to have more accepting contemporaries and a longer period of time to convince the non accepting that we are nothing more than great guys.

[jodie k]

what "views of old farts from the 60's," you mean like trying things that weren't accepted by society, such as anti-war protests, drugs, rock music
etc. that are commonplace today because of them...

[Angela Campbell]

It is just like in junior high school. Many will "pile on" and be hurtful of others who they see something different about. Many say these things and do not really beleive it but it is the image they want to portray as they feel it will make them seem more important or in control. They think it will make them look better to others. These are usually small people inside. I have known many who talk this way about gay people until they get to know one at work and then many times they actually like the person and their stated views will sometimes soften a bit.

[sometimes_miss]

<snip>Yes, love may garnished a little acceptance from family members. But, there are many families who will shun their own who are gay or lesbian and cross dressers. It's a lot of NIMBY. <snip>
Same with friends. Some will change their opinion when they realize a friend is gay/TS/TG/CD, others will initially seem o.k. with it, but slowly, quietly distance themselves from that person until they are out of their life completely (that was my experience with several people).
With the information age now with us, I suppose that 50 or 100 years from now, things may be very different, but that doesn't help us right now.
I apologize to those who feel that we who prefer to stay in the closet may seem cowardly, but I simply can't handle any more problems in my life than I already have. I don't want to start becoming excluded from 'the backyards' of the few friends that I still have.

[Foxglove]

It may be these people have never thought much about the issue and are just talking on the spur of the moment. If they're ever forced to face the issue, some of them might be more open-minded.

Some won't be. There are some you simply can't get through to.

If someone says they don't understand TGism, that's no surprise. If they say they think it's gross, that's no surprise, either. TGism is naturally distasteful to a lot of cispeople. There are people, however, who can accept that they have no right to persecute what doesn't actually hurt them.

[Angela Campbell]

I can understand them thinking it is gross too. Sometimes I look in the mirror and think the same thing.

[dsmth]

I agree that when people talk about something that they think is "abstract" in the sense that it really "has nothing to do with themselves" (and have no experience) they will be quick to judge based on more-or-less un-thought-out perspectives. Although I would probably feel the same way if my friends talked about TG negatively (this has not happened yet) I think you have to take their opinions with a grain of salt as they say. They know not of which they speak, right? Nobody should care what a person says if what that person says is based on mostly ignorance.

[Foxglove]

Nobody should care what a person says if what that person says is based on mostly ignorance.

I can't entirely agree with this. Recently I had an argument with a very convinced religious believer who knows nothing about LGBT people, but insists we're sinners and need to repent. If it's just a few people who believe stuff like this, no harm done. But if there's lots of them, it can have an impact on our lives.

[famousunknown]

So my SO and I went out to dinner with our best friends. Some how the subject came up about transgender. It know I shouldn't be suprised but man they are fast to say how gross it is or how they just dont understand. In todays world you would think they would be at least a little more open.

WHY would you think they would be at least a little more open than anyone else is? It's simple. Transgenderism is not accepted in today's society.
It's not considered normal, no matter how the labels get twisted. Fight and campaign for TG rights all you want. You'll never be accepted in mainstream society.

[Foxglove]

Fight and campaign for TG rights all you want. You'll never be accepted in mainstream society.

Oh, ye of little faith! So many things that were and are no longer, so many things that are now and were not before. That's the world we live in.

Annabelle

[Lynn Marie]

Would it be possible that straight men, and women too, are overcompensating because of fear way back in their subconcious that they aren't quite as manly or womanly as they would have everyone around them to think!

[NyssaF]

It know I shouldn't be suprised but man they are fast to say how gross it is or how they just dont understand. In todays world you would think they would be at least a little more open. As I listen it makes me retreat a little further into my mind.

I so understand what you are saying. There are a lot of people who openly accept homosexuality, but cannot handle a man wearing women's clothes. I see examples of this everywhere, from both gay and straight friends/family/acquaintances. There's a reason I'll never come out of the closet. People don't understand it, and will always see me as different or odd or abnormal.

[Eryn]

Go back a few decades and it was acceptable to be disrespectful of many different groups. People felt perfectly comfortable denigrating and telling jokes about blacks, Jews, hispanics, Irish, homosexuals, etc. One by one each of these groups has demanded and been given respect. These days anyone openly disrespecting any of these groups in public will find themselves the immediate focus of very serious attention even from those who are not members of those groups.

Unfortunately, the TG community is still fair game for this sort of treatment because few express disapproval of such behavior. That does not mean that we have to sit back and tolerate it. Even if I am in boy mode I can make my disapproval of intolerance quite clear. I don't have to out myself to say, quite truthfully, "I have transgender friends and I do not like to hear them disrespected."

[famousunknown]

Oh, ye of little faith! So many things that were and are no longer, so many things that are now and were not before. That's the world we live in.

Annabelle

Whatever. Nothing significant has changed. Do your own thing at home and don't worry about it. Acceptance in open society? Never happen.
That's the truth.

[CD_blue]

I disagree that progress has not been made. I think we are making big strides here in states socially to the left that is bound to effect us here on the site. We have actually came very far when it comes to tolerance and with this last election cycle I can’t see that trend reversing. We got a black man as a President. How many people would have thought that possible twenty years or even a decade ago? Good chance that a woman would be President and if Obama would not have won in 2008.

More states are allowing gay marriage. The signs are everywhere society is becoming more tolerant of others. From the 50s to this point we go into Civil rights, gay rights, and videos like this aren’t being shown anymore in schools http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17u01_sWjRE . Simply too many things to list of how society has moved to a more tolerant society and this is bound to effect us. I personally think all these things have indeed effected us already and will continue to do so.

At the very least at least it isn’t seen as a mental illness which not too long ago it was considered as such.

I think progress is going to be much slower for us though. We don’t have the organization, leadership, and structure other groups have. There is also things going against us all on personal levels which makes it hard for us to work for advancement of our acceptance. Internal acceptance issues, family acceptance, raising children, social acceptance, isolation, job issues, tons of issues we all read about on these forums. This makes it hard on us to advance together as a group. Mostly when we know we can avoid all that trouble by simply just staying indoors and keeping it secret. Facing all that is just so extremely daunting.

On personal level though, and this just might be in my personality I don’t know. Outside of one family member who is going on 80 years old... I just put racist, homophonic, and sexist people out of my life entirely. I simply have no tolerance for them, and never did. Even before I put on my first piece of female garment on for the sake of cross dressing I just kept/keep them out of my life.

[Badtranny]

That is the same reason we don't jump to defend CDing in a situation like that as that may tend to out us. Maybe if you had countered with "I knew a CD in high school and he was a great guy you know straight and all" it may have brought out a different opinion.

I really don't understand how asking someone to be respectful of somebody else is gonna "out" you. I mean if you defend Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip do people think you're Jewish? Are you really so scared to defend the defenseless that you would rather just be silent? Are you afraid that you may be "stained" by the association?

Have any of you petrified CD's ever thought that if you were openly supportive of LGBT people (not out, just supportive) that one of your friends might just find the courage you don't have and come out to you?

[Foxglove]

Whatever. Nothing significant has changed. Do your own thing at home and don't worry about it. Acceptance in open society? Never happen.
That's the truth.

Well, I've been out in open society in my little town for over a month now, and I've met with nothing but acceptance. Of course, not everybody's as lucky as I am to be living in such an accepting place. Our lot seems to be quite mixed. Some find quite a bit of acceptance, some have a much harder time. Nonetheless, this forum is testimony to how many people get out and survive to tell the tale.

The world is moving on. Things that weren't acceptable a few generations ago are acceptable now.

Famousunknown, I know you're personally unhappy these days. But your own individual world isn't the entire world.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[noeleena]

Hi,

Depends on how small your world is is it that small , have a look further afield a different County or Countrys, a different place,
Have you traveled abrord .

do you meet many people im talking about 1000's of, not just a few 100.

Come over here to New Zealand even Austraila, you may just see things a bit different, even Thailand.

I live in the real world of people , i have many friends, im not talking about any here as trans friends or dresser's, just people i know work with spend time with. & im well known,

Now i wont say im accepted by every one, look at it this way of those i know id say 3 out of every 100 people will not accept me not just because of what i am its just we dont all get on with every one, over all i think iv done pretty well concidering my changes, plus other details,

so my world is not so small as you count the many friends who are real friends that i have,

How can we educate people show them we can be different yet be accepted,

iv been invited to large meeting's to tell of my life been seen by many more, & i dont mean a few 100 people ,get in the media T V papers & the net, youll soon find there are many more people who do accept others who are different,

iv done it & still doing it, you find away that you can be in the front line & touch many lifes ,

I can tell you how iv done it's just its not going to work for you, so its up to you to find your way of being in that place of im different & being able to show others, it can be done, iv proved it many times.

& its very rewarding .

...noeleena...

[Rogina B]

WHY would you think they would be at least a little more open than anyone else is? It's simple. Transgenderism is not accepted in today's society.
It's not considered normal, no matter how the labels get twisted. Fight and campaign for TG rights all you want. You'll never be accepted in mainstream society.
I think you are wrong! Acceptance in the world is growing. Perhaps in your area not,or won't ever,but in other areas of our country the recognition of a "third gender..gender mix,etc" is being accepted by intelligent,open minded people. It is the ignorant that think a person is a male or female and no mix is possible. If acceptance means no "mobs with torches and pitchforks"..so be it. But there are others out there that want to be your friend and are very curious to learn more as there is little information out there for them to go on. I stick up for acceptance,no matter the outcome. And StephBrown...I wonder what their reaction would have been if you were to start the conversation with how neat a trait it is,rather than having got their reaction first....To all,a real friend sticks with you,no matter what.

[FaithGrace]

Sometimes people say what they think they are expected to say and not necessarily what they really think.

I agree with Kelly completely. Before I started dressing a few weeks ago, if the subject came up with my wife or friends I would agree on how wrong it was but inside I knew that I was dying to be wearing lingerie. It makes me wonder how many other people are just masking their desires as well. Some may be doing it in secret now, some may be masking their true desires, some may never give in to it but some will.

The bottom line though is that it doesn't matter what other people think of us, it is what really makes us happy that counts!

[linda allen]

....... the recognition of a "third gender..gender mix,etc" is being accepted by intelligent,open minded people. It is the ignorant that think a person is a male or female and no mix is possible. ........

I don't see any recognition of a "third gender..gender mix,etc" in my area and I don't see it in the media, at least the TV and newspapers.

I also don't think calling people who don't except the idea of a third gender "ignorant" is really going to help or change anything. I posted above that society describes people as "male" or "female". That's the reality and it's not going to change anytime soon.

[Rogina B]

Yes,they are ignorant minded! White or black,no grey possible. In the Boston area there has been media coverage of kids born into the "grey area" and the wonderful progressive changes possible.
I don't see any recognition of a "third gender..gender mix,etc" in my area and I don't see it in the media, at least the TV and newspapers.

I also don't think calling people who don't except the idea of a third gender "ignorant" is really going to help or change anything. I posted above that society describes people as "male" or "female". That's the reality and it's not going to change anytime soon.

[Foxglove]

I also don't think calling people who don't except the idea of a third gender "ignorant" is really going to help or change anything. I posted above that society describes people as "male" or "female". That's the reality and it's not going to change anytime soon.

Linda, "ignorant" isn't necessarily a dirty word. It doesn't have to mean "stupid". It can mean "uninformed" on a certain subject. When I was coming out in my town, one person I went to speak to was the librarian, one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. She asked me, "What exactly is transgenderism?" Now she was perfectly "ignorant" of the matter. But that didn't make her a bad or stupid person. It just meant that she didn't know anything about it. But she proved to be quite willing to listen and learn, and she's one of the people who's showed me a lot of acceptance.

As for whether things are going to change in the future, I think it's pointless to argue about it. Who can predict the future, and above all who can predict what people will be thinking in 10, 20, 50 years' time? When I was a kid, black people still had to ride at the back of the bus. Things have changed a great deal in our lifetimes. I myself am not going to swear that there won't ever be any more changes in the future.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Marie-Elise]

In my 40+ years of time on earth, there is one thing I am sure about: Everyone has his/her kink; it's just a matter of the degree to which they repress it.

Realizing this has made me more confident in both business and life. Sometimes, I might even subtly probe to see what a particular person's kink is. No matter, you can be sure everyone has one.

Oh, and about telling your friends: Are you adding anything positive to your relationship by telling them? That's basically my measure for telling anyone. For that reason, my parents don't know but my wife does. Some friends know I have 12 years of martial arts studies under my belt; other don't...it just never came up and it wasn't going to contribute anything to the relationship.

[famousunknown]

I don't see any recognition of a "third gender..gender mix,etc" in my area and I don't see it in the media, at least the TV and newspapers.


I don't see it either and whoever does see it must be heavily medicated or else living in a fantasy world.

[Foxglove]

I don't see any recognition of a "third gender..gender mix,etc" in my area and I don't see it in the media, at least the TV and newspapers.



I don't see it either and whoever does see it must be heavily medicated or else living in a fantasy world.

If you don't see it, then you're simply not looking. You could, e.g., visit the Media forum here and you'll find lots of stuff about transpeople in the news, some of it good, some of it not so good. Here, e.g., is an article to which a link is currently provided on one thread on that forum:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2012/12/04/college-basketball-transgender-player-gabrielle-ludwig-robert-ludwig-mission-college/1744703/

I won't say anything about TV or newspapers because I don't pay any attention to them. But I do know there's plenty of stuff on the net.

Famousunknown, I'll say it again: I know that you're very, very unhappy these days, and I'm sorry about that. But I'm not sure it's going to help you any to ignore the positive signs that are out there. And I don't think it's going to help other transpeople if you're trying to convince them that they aren't out there. Because they are out there. Maybe not nearly as many as we'd like to see, but they are there.

This afternoon I went into the Post Office, the library, two supermarkets, the credit union and a café. I didn't have any hassle from anybody, and I'm neither heavily medicated nor living in a fantasy world. I myself believe in doing my very best to be objective. When there are bad things going on--and there are plenty of them--I don't believe in ignoring them. But when there's positive stuff going on--and plenty of our members here can testify to them--I don't see any reason to ignore them, either.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[famousunknown]

Famousunknown, I'll say it again: I know that you're very, very unhappy these days, and I'm sorry about that.

Well, you're wrong about that. I'm not unhappy at all. I've just come to the realization that most of the stuff I see from others who post here is pure fantasy. Third gender? That's quite ludicrous, actually.

[Foxglove]

Well, you're wrong about that. I'm not unhappy at all. I've just come to the realization that most of the stuff I see from others who post here is pure fantasy. Third gender? That's quite ludicrous, actually.

Well, I'm very glad to know that I'm wrong. Actually it was this thread that led me and some others to believe you were very unhappy,

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?184790-too-much-for-me-I-quit&p=3022725&highlight=#post3022725

but I'm glad to know we misread your mood.

Of course, the fact that you're happy makes it a bit difficult to interpret some of your recent posts, but I'm not going to worry about that.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Rogina B]

I've just come to the realization that most of the stuff I see from others who post here is pure fantasy. Third gender? That's quite ludicrous, actually.I know I am not on medication nor living a fantasy,and I don't have time to post BS. There is a big world outside of yours that perhaps you could explore.There are very advanced and factual gender studies done these days by open minded people on the cutting edge. Boston is a center of this work.Sally Cross[Sally 24] recently posted a link to a very determining gender study regarding twin boys in Maine. I myself subscribe to an informative blog called George Jessie Love about a transitioning 11 yr old.Along with reading the blog,others in similar situations have made themselves known to me as well. There is a lot going on out there..Noeleena,on here is intersexed,I know two girls born hermaphrodite,and if I know two,how many are there? Gender is not a black/white situation...if it was,why would you be posting on here?

[Jamie001]

Whatever. Nothing significant has changed. Do your own thing at home and don't worry about it. Acceptance in open society? Never happen.
That's the truth.

It will never happen if we adopt your attitude. Our gay brothers and sisters have made phenomenal progress in the past 10 years. We need to get out there and be seen and interact with society. That is the only way that we can make progress.

[Jamie001]

I posted above that society describes people as "male" or "female". That's the reality and it's not going to change anytime soon.

It's not going to change unless we make efforts to change it. Maintaining a negative attitude will not affect change. 50 years ago, society also saw gay people as an aberration. Gay folks have made great progress over the past 10 years.

[Jamie001]

Well, you're wrong about that. I'm not unhappy at all. I've just come to the realization that most of the stuff I see from others who post here is pure fantasy. Third gender? That's quite ludicrous, actually.

If you believe that "third gender" is quite ludicrous then you need to do some research. It is accepted in modern psychology and also in other cultures (Indian, Samoan, and several other cultures).

[noeleena]

Hi,

famousunknown,

So by the sounds of it most of what i say is not worth reading, allso i dont use the 3 rd gender yet im one of those that falls somewere a long that line, im intersexed where does that leave me back in no mans land, iv been there for years, i know what its like, you'r not one thing or the other, try liveing my life & see how far you get,

I have a neat life i dont need to pretend who i am, or what i am, theres no fantasy about who i am, thats well documented, & seen by many thousands of people, Nation wide in our County, plus papers .no dought does not mean a thing .

I use my real name my pic is world wide, taken by Jos, who's known me for 39 years, & im reconised here in N Z & Austraila,

But hey it does not matter,

...noeleena...

[xdressed]

Sometimes people say what they think they are expected to say and not necessarily what they really think. In a group of none CDs, non gays etc. if one stated that they thought CDing was ok then the group might just think they were a CDer or gay. That is the same reason we don't jump to defend CDing in a situation like that as that may tend to out us. Maybe if you had countered with "I knew a CD in high school and he was a great guy you know straight and all" it may have brought out a different opinion.

I think this more or less sums it up. I've seen various celebrities and members of the general public meeting crossdressers and transsexuals as part of various television shows and some are a little weirded out at first, but most are quite accepting after talking to them for a little bit. But you should never underestimate the power of peer pressure, a couple of times I've seen guys who aren't racist change that slightly when among a group of friends who are.

[linda allen]

"Third Gender?" As I remember from my biology classes in high school (admittedly a long time ago), there are just two gender for mammals, male and female.

When you are born, the doctor looks between your legs and checks either "M" or "F" on the birth certificate. When you register for school, the same thing, "M" or "F". Get a drivers license, apply for a job, insurance, go to the doctor, same thing, "M" or "F". If the police are looking for you they will describe you as male or female. Insurance rates are different for males and females. Life expectancy is different for males and females. I have never seen a box for "Other".

If you want to believe that you are some "third gender", that's fine, there are no thought police. Just remember that the outside world will see and treat you as either male or female, not something in between. You're going to have to live with it.

[Foxglove]

"Third Gender?" As I remember from my biology classes in high school (admittedly a long time ago), there are just two gender for mammals, male and female.

And what did they teach you about transgender people? If it was the same thing they taught at my school, it was nothing at all. We are an overlooked group.


When you are born, the doctor looks between your legs and checks either "M" or "F" on the birth certificate. When you register for school, the same thing, "M" or "F". Get a drivers license, apply for a job, insurance, go to the doctor, same thing, "M" or "F". If the police are looking for you they will describe you as male or female. Insurance rates are different for males and females.

And do all these people look in your mind to see what you're thinking and feeling? It's no wonder they miss such an important fact about us. But people who are trained to look for these things have no trouble finding them.


Life expectancy is different for males and females.

And what's the life expectancy for transpeople? Since we're never mentioned, does that mean we don't have one?


I have never seen a box for "Other".

As I said before, we're an overlooked group. But that doesn't mean we don't exist. There are people who are beginning to correct the situation. E.g., if you're applying for an Australian passport these days, your gender will be marked "M", "F" or "X", as appopriate. I myself would prefer "T" to "X", but still that "X" corresponds to the "Other" that you say you've never seen. The next time an Irish census is done, there probably won't be a box for "Other". If not, I intend to make one.


If you want to believe that you are some "third gender", that's fine, there are no thought police. Just remember that the outside world will see and treat you as either male or female, not something in between. You're going to have to live with it.

Not so, Linda. For the last month and some, I've been out in my little town and people have been treating me just the way I'd like to be treated. I've told them all I'm trans, and that's the way they're treating me. And I'm hardly the only one in the world. We don't in fact have to live with this little binary scheme of "male-female".

Can I ask you a question, Linda: you do know what transgenderism is, don't you? You may be a crossdresser who identifies as male, but not all of us fall into that category. If that's the way you identify, then you might not understand my feelings any better than a cisperson would. But that doesn't mean my feelings don't exist. And "third gender" is actually a very good way of labelling them. I have on occasion used the term. You shouldn't dismiss out of hand what you haven't experienced for yourself.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[noeleena]

Hi,

Linda.

Have you seen a intersexed person do you know any wether you agree or not the one writeing this is intersexed, some of us are nether male or female, for get the xx xy's & 20 other combos that is after the fact not prof of what we are,

Have you seen between the legs of an intersexed child you will see both sets of organs male & female do a scan youll see more, some have a womb & no other female organs some males have a womb & a mix of organs, i can go on just i see no point, because if you can not accept me you wont accept others who are like my self intersexed, as to how many of us some 10,000 world wide,

If i get on to the mind the Emotions ..the Psychological then the Mental side of things It would take weeks to write about,

You have made your mind up & apper to not wont to accept us because of miss info or what ever has been taught or said by those who know nothing about us does say something about a person who refuse's to accept what is now out there to find the real truth.

As iv said i dont use 3 rd gender yet i will because i know some of us are, our bodys are different our hormones work differently .Expreance of my self & others i know,

We are the ones who live it day by day,

Forgot ,

Try fish some are both male / female try worms are both male / female , allso theres some butterflys are male / female
your bioligy glass was wrong. or the info was suss , ill concede we have more info now than when we were at school 1953 on,

any way gloss over this it does not matter , the truth is there if one wonts to find it,

...noeleena...