I've been dating a guy

[windycissy]

I never in a million years thought this would happen, but I've started dating...as a woman. A few weeks ago, I hooked up with another CD'er who was visiting Chicago and we spent some time together en femme. We really hit it off, although we have very little in common except our crossdressing. I asked him if he would ever want to go out sometime with him as the guy and me as the girl, and he said okay.

The next time he was in town, he asked me out on a date! I know this sounds ridiculous, but I was so nervous putting on my makeup and deciding what to wear. I really wanted to look pretty for him. He may be a "plain Jane" as a girl,but he is a very good-looking guy and a well-mannered gentleman. After he picked me up, it was one thrill after another as he opened doors for me and told the waitress that "the lady will have...." I took his arm as he walked me home, which felt wonderful, and when we kissed goodnight, it seemed so natural.

He's been back twice since then, and last week I cooked dinner for him. You should have seen me in my apron setting the table and lighting candles. It is all so innocent: we haven't gone beyond hugs and kisses - we are both straight - but I am starting to like this way too much....

Usually I'm the one giving advice, but I could sure use some now. Should I break this off before it goes too far? Or just enjoy it while it lasts and see what happens?

Windy

[Paula Rae]

Hey Windy,

I'd give every thing I own, to be in your shoes, sounds like my dream come true, only you are the dreamer, grab the bull by the horns and get ready for a long pleasant ride, maybe even one of those "Lived Happily ever after" stories.

I wish all of the best, good luck to you.

Ricki B

[Helana]

Windy

There is nothing wrong with exploring this but do be careful about getting caught up in your fantasies. I believe that both gender and sexual orientation are fluid so it is quite natural for bi-curiousity to turn into bi-sexuality. Dont fall into the trap thinking you are doing someting morally wrong.

I would suggest that you actually sit down with him and have a forthright talk about this. After all he is a CD too so there is no need to hide anything. You need to ask each other where would this lead to? Could there be a realistic future for this relationship? Or is it just best to stay friends and take turns being the gentleman for each other?

[Adele 2005]

Don't panic! Just continue to take your time and see how the friendship develops. Be honest about your feelings, that you're nervous about where this may lead as it's new territory for you. He obviously likes you, and will understand if you need time to explore your own feelings about this.

Chances are you may be experiencing guilt, shame, and confusion about this friendhsip as a 'straight' guy, so try to focus on what makes you happy. There's really nothing wrong with discovering this side of your sexuality. If he makes you happy, then it's right for you.

Remember: don't panic, take your time, be honest.

You'll know in your heart what is right for you.

Good luck,

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Assuming both of you aren't involved with anyone else, why not? As Helena said gender and sexuality are more fluid than the either/or way society typically views.

As both Adele and Helena said, it's probably good for the two of you to talk about how you feel now, where you think it might lead and how you feel about where it might lead.

[spaskinstyle]

Windy hon, you are a big girl. I know that you are having the time of your life and you deserve to be treated as the lovely lady that you are. If spending time with this gentlemen makes you happy then continue to do so. Don't let your concerns about bi-sexualty get in the way of what could be a wonderful friendship. You can explore the relationship and enjoy all of the pleasures of being "his" girl just by being close friends. If things in the sexual department develop, let yourself enjoy the total experience and don't be hung up by labels and pre-concieved notions. Enjoy yourself and trust your instincts. You have a good head on your shoulders.

Love,
Theresa

[Sharon]

It sounds like you're doing fine following your heart, Windy. Don't let your head get in the way. :)

[RachelDenise]

Windy, I think you have received excellent advice here. You need to think about what you really want and what you are prepared to do given the situation. I also think talking it over with him is a necessity. You would do this before anything else happened if you were dating anyway. You need to know a whole lot about him and his background.....married, HIV status, interests, etc...

[DonnaT]

I agree with the other ladies.

One thing missing from your post, have these dates all been him as a guy and you as a girl?

If so, how does he feel about that? Does he feel his fem side is being oppressed?

Do you think you two could reverse roles if he needs to express his fem side?

[BrendaChristine]

Take it here it leads you. If you both want to go there, go. There is NEVER anything wrong, morally or otherwise about two people showing some love and affection for each other. And if some physical pleasure come from it even better. My first male experiene was with a childhood friend. Growing up he was the the kid picked last for sports, mama's boy yhr whole thing. Not quite a sissy, but not a "boy". We became friends mostly due to our moms being friends, he was a couple of years older, I guess I kinda looked up to him. I was in college aswas he but he was out of state. he came back to town cause his momwas sick and we spent a lot of time catching up. He didn't know about Brenda, and I didn't know it but he was Gay. We were talking and as it looked like his Mom wasn't going to make it. (she did), he came out to me, and asked if he should tell her. we talked about that and a lot of things when he admitted to having feelings for me. I kinda dodged it and said the usual "It's ok, i'm not like that, but I don't maind. I'll always be your friend etc." But for a couple fo days it stuck with me. I found myself thinking abot him while dressed, and haveing the most intense sexual response to it. Once his Mom was out of the woods I called him and told him that i had something to share with him, could I come over the next day and he agreed. I called up my friend form school, a girl who knew about Brenda and asked her to help me. she gave me a total makeover, bought a new outfit, jewelry makeup the whole deal. She drove me to his house and left. when he answered the door he was speechles, as was I. The rest of the night was simply magical, while I had relations with a women , it was the most intense and passionate experience in my lifeto that point, I guess because it was with someone I had genuine love for.
OOOPS. My big mouth again. Someone needs ro teach me to be quiet I guess. Sorry ,Girls. So yes...follow your heart. don't ignore your head, but every once in a while tell it shut to the F**k up!

Be Happy
B.

[paulaN]

Windy I'd say go with your heart. leave your head out of it. It realy sounds like you are having a great time so just go with it.

[Kim E]

Windy, I also feel you should follow your heart. Sometimes in life, situations and opportunities arrive and our minds over rule our hearts. Sadly then, those opportunities are lost forever. Life is too short.

I agree with the other girls, I think you both need to have an honest and sincere discussion about your relationship. That way, there would be less chance of either of you being hurt emotionally, if things don't work out.

Kim

[mand]

Hello Windy :)I reckon be honest with yourself and be honest with him, but most of all just enjoy, it sounds like you are both having a great time ;)


love mand xxx:)

[Tracy Lynn]

Hi Windy,

I would say just enjoy yourself and see where it goes. He sounds like a real gentleman and treats you well. Go for it.

[uknowhoo]

BrendaChristine, I'll second that!

And to you Crissy, good luck and enjoy yourself

Hugs,

Tammi

[Kaye_martin]

WindyCissy:

Go for it!

kaye_martin

[Wendy me]

windy the answers your looking for are in your thoughts and in your heart... just keep in mind that someone else has a intrest and feelings in this too ..
explore and enjoy to whats comfy with you ....but do so be mind full of your
"dates" thoughts and feelings too....all too often we forget that we are not the only one ......that might get hurt .....

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Windy

Hey, I hope you have a great time. I figure you're an adult, and you have a good head on your shoulders, and you don't have to answer to no-one. Go for whatever makes you happy, that's what life's all about.

GypsyKaren

[crossing_over]

also take into consideration that he may want to be the girl sometimes.... it may not be what u think.... BUT talk to him about it.... if you are bi-sexual, in my opinion, it is not morally wrong.... you are who you are.... i am openly bi-sexual and proud of it.... i dont flaunt it around people, but they do know so i dont push it on them.... but talk to him.... if he wants to be ur boy toy, go for it! lol

[sherri]

and when we kissed goodnight, it seemed so natural ... but I am starting to like this way too much....

Usually I'm the one giving advice, but I could sure use some now. Should I break this off before it goes too far? Or just enjoy it while it lasts and see what happens?

I'm going to out on a limb here and speculate that if you liked it when he held you and kissed you, you may be ripe for more. To me, kissing a man is kind of a litmus test. If your reaction is "Ewww!", then you're probably not wired that way. But if your reaction is "Mmmm, that's nice", then ... well, you know.

A thornier problem for me would be switching roles. First scenario = "Mmmm". Switch = "Ewww". Not because of her being en femme, but because I wouldn't like the male role. Make it two fems and I'm back to "Mmmm". When I'm a guy, I am hetero.

At least I think I am ...

[Steffie-Lee]

Windy...
What do you mean by go too far ? Why not ? If you are into kissing, holding each other and you both feel good about it, then why not. Don't "Break it off", girl, I have been there and done that, and have felt sorry about breaking it off ever since....

[womanatheart]

Windy,
Not that one would get a deep insight into who our other sisters are by this site and each others posts and responses, but from all my observations - you have been one of my mentors as a CDer. So effem, composed, knowlegeable,experienced. (not to add pressure to your situation). Allow me to add the fact there are a few recent posts raising the question about sex with a man as a CDer. When I read those posts, I couldnt answer that question immediately. (if asked now - I would revolt at the thought of having any relationship with a man as a CDer -I am not in a total woman mode) I always wanted to hold off on an answer to that question because I knew as full CDer - when I got into that grove as a woman - not a CDer - but as close to being as a woman as I could - thinking like a woman (am I a man in a womans clothes verses the real persona of being a woman, to both dress, looks, mannerisms, feelings, desires, and even - sexual desires), would there be that womanly desire to be total woman? Total. Not just be accepted by GG's (who I adore)but that desire of all GG's and that is to be suitored by men. Pleased by a man. The right man of course. Understanding. Caring. Romantic and makes me feel like a woman? Windy, just to think of you dressed as a woman, preparing dinner, apron, lighting candles, waiting for him to arrive - is my picture of being totally efem both mentally and (almost) physically. And the key being with a totally accepting guy - a marvalous guy, for the night. Wendy, I think my panties would of been wet.
I know all about the 2nd thoughts, what if.....Don't go past the night. As all of us CDers know - you have to enjoy the moment and do not expect anything from tommorrow. Every day as a CDer is a risk. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but most of the time it is what you make it and only by risk.
Windy, I percieve you to be very much a CDer and woman at heart. And definately not a novice at this. Enjoy the chance of being a woman. If it ends with a wonderful evening as a Windy and He - you have been more of a woman than I have. If it goes further - sexually - be a woman (as you and I want to be) and I am confident you will know when it is to call it a night and a relationship. Dont think like a man -think like a woman. Carpe diem.:angel:
All my love,
Stephanie

[lawnmanmo]

I never in a million years thought this would happen, but I've started dating...as a woman. A few weeks ago, I hooked up with another CD'er who was visiting Chicago and we spent some time together en femme. We really hit it off, although we have very little in common except our crossdressing. I asked him if he would ever want to go out sometime with him as the guy and me as the girl, and he said okay.

The next time he was in town, he asked me out on a date! I know this sounds ridiculous, but I was so nervous putting on my makeup and deciding what to wear. I really wanted to look pretty for him. He may be a "plain Jane" as a girl,but he is a very good-looking guy and a well-mannered gentleman. After he picked me up, it was one thrill after another as he opened doors for me and told the waitress that "the lady will have...." I took his arm as he walked me home, which felt wonderful, and when we kissed goodnight, it seemed so natural.

He's been back twice since then, and last week I cooked dinner for him. You should have seen me in my apron setting the table and lighting candles. It is all so innocent: we haven't gone beyond hugs and kisses - we are both straight - but I am starting to like this way too much....

Usually I'm the one giving advice, but I could sure use some now. Should I break this off before it goes too far? Or just enjoy it while it lasts and see what happens?

Windy

Dear Windy
Once again, a passable and very CONVINCING CD women enforces what I have been saying for so long. I am a male admirer, a gentleman who adore being out and about in public with a CD women who enjoys the magic of the moment to the nines. I have said it so many times that their are many CD women who will, given the opportunity, swoon and just be lifted to a new level, new heights in CDing when out and about with a "gentleman" escort. The feeling, the excitement, the thrill of it all just overpowers you and the experience is breathtaking. I know just how you feel because I have seen this happen on many of my CD friends who have gone out with me in the general public and just enjoyed being a women totally. Yes, make it go as long as you can because it will be for the time being..heaven on earth.
Jerry

[windycissy]

Thank you all so much for your uplifting messages of encouragement! The big lesson I am taking away from your thoughtful responses is, go with my heart and stop thinking so much!

Many of you have weighed in on behalf of my man. Let me tell you, he is a few years older than I am, very worldly-wise, and unbelieveably sensitive about the turmoil I am going through....yes, we have been very open and candid about our feelings for each other. Our exchange of emails has been more erotic than anything we have done during our fleeting moments together. He has a good head on his shoulders, and is very protective of my feelings. Is this guy perfect, or what?

Our next date is in two weeks. I've been threatening to buy a little black dress so he can take me to fancy restaurant. Chances are, we'll have a long, chatty dinner together and wind up back at my place. I am just going to let things happen!

Windy

[freshfrankie]

Windy. You sound like you've been having a great time and are comfortable with what's going on. If you've kissed a man and it felt right then there's nothing wrong with that. You have to go with how you feel not how other people will feel. If you're comfortable with it then let it happen and don't look back.There is nothing wrong or bad with what you are doing if you are not hurting someone else. You are doing what everyone has the right to do. Be yourself. Enjoy your life because it's very short. You only get one shot. Big hugs and you have my best wishes and support.:)

Love
Jeannie

[BrendaChristine]

Windy you are on course for something wonderful,I bet. Any girl born on St Patrick's Day can't go wrong. It's the luck o' the Irish, lass.

[sherri]

Our exchange of emails has been more erotic than anything we have done during our fleeting moments together. He has a good head on his shoulders, and is very protective of my feelings. Is this guy perfect, or what?

Oooo-ho! You didn't tell us about the emails!!! Sooo, the wild thang card is already on the table huh? You've been holding out on us darlin. :p

I recommend candles in the bedroom, maybe a little Van Morrison on the stereo.

Actually, he does sound pretty perfect.

[womanatheart]

Windy,
O my! Wendy! - girl! My heart faints at the emotions you must be going through. Thrill, happiness, excitement, anticipation and ..... All the thoughts of every woman - every WOMAN who has had the date of their life. This time you are the woman and you will do fine. Its in you.
What is going through my mind if I were you: lose weight, shave my entire body, perfume, hose, earrings, hose, that perfect black dress (just the thought is so efem), perfect heels, clean bed sheets, towels and woman's pajama's and how to be efem in the morning after????? I would probably be watching every movie made where a woman went out with a man - passionaltely - to study femine mannerisms. So much to do in 2 weeks. What torture!
Other than that I would enjoy the rare opportunity of being a woman - far beyond many of us other CDers her on cd.com would dream about. Girl, what a testiment of you being a woman - accepted by a man for another night!!:angel:
Love,
Stephanie

[HaleyPink2000]

Hun, I would say that love is between two people. No matter what the actual gender. It does not matter what I say or anyone else does say. If your in love then this will be a wonderful year for the two of you. Lets us all wish you the best, and I so hope that things go well for you in your life my Sister.

Haley:)

[Kimberly]

omg.... need an update as soon as possible on how it's all going!!

This is so interesting: I'd love to be in your position, with a guy I trust who can accept and embrace the fem side in me. To be entirely fem, with a guy, for a whole day would be truley amazing, something I would relish and could probably never let go.

My thought is, remember the intimacy... I was always slightly envious of the girlfriend I got closest to, and envious of her ability to just fold up into my arms and feel protected. I WANT THAT!! Relish it. You have it.

Take care, and update us ASAP xx

[Mona]

Windy, being close to someone is the most treasured experience in life, well mine anyway. Good luck, I hope it works out like you dream!
Mona

[ericalynne]

windy dear....how i envy you...please let yourself go where it will...i would so love to have the opportunity to be wined and dined and treated as a total woman...as everyone else has said....if you enjoyed that kiss...well then enjoy more...oh to be a woman in every way possible you go girl!!!!...love ericalynne

[windycissy]

I'm going to out on a limb here and speculate that if you liked it when he held you and kissed you, you may be ripe for more. To me, kissing a man is kind of a litmus test. If your reaction is "Ewww!", then you're probably not wired that way. But if your reaction is "Mmmm, that's nice", then ... well, you know.

That was one of my biggest surprises. If you had told me even a few weeks ago that I could ever enjoy kissing another guy, I'd have said "No way!" For some reasons, my inhibitions vanished that night. Maybe it was the way he treated me totally like a woman. I remember during dinner, I thanked him for taking me out and told him what a good sport he was. I'll never forget his reply: "Windy, right now you ARE a woman, and you look better than a lot of the women I've gone out with...." I just melted.

The whole night was like a fantastic dream that I never wanted to end, and when he kissed me, it was soft and sweet. And I really did say to myself, "Mmmmm, that's nice!"

Windy

[sherri]

That was one of my biggest surprises. If you had told me even a few weeks ago that I could ever enjoy kissing another guy, I'd have said "No way!" For some reasons, my inhibitions vanished that night. Maybe it was the way he treated me totally like a woman. I remember during dinner, I thanked him for taking me out and told him what a good sport he was. I'll never forget his reply: "Windy, right now you ARE a woman, and you look better than a lot of the women I've gone out with...." I just melted.

The whole night was like a fantastic dream that I never wanted to end, and when he kissed me, it was soft and sweet. And I really did say to myself, "Mmmmm, that's nice!"

Windy

You are going to have to share this guy !!!!! He's too good to be true. Maybe cuz he dresses he's a great empathizer.

A cute black man kissed me once when I was dressed. He was so cool about it, he smelled great and his lips were so full and soft ... it was very nice. It's not always that way. Depends on the guy, I think.

BTW, if you'd like to talk about it, I'd like to hear your thoughts on switching. If it comes up, how will you feel, and how will you handle it?

[Tina Dixon]

Oh go for it, why not, im straight also, but if I had the chance I would go for it also.

[windycissy]

Counting the hours till my next date with Mr. Right! He is taking me to a super nice restaurant, and I am in a tizzy over what to wear. On our very first date, I wore a simple skirt, sweater and flats. He took my picture, it is very fuzzy but can you tell from my body language how like a girl I was feeling?

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5ce36b3127cce9482df39f59d00000015108IatWLlw0aW

I will keep you posted as the magic hour approaches,

Windy

[Christina Nicole]

A good debater can argue both sides of an issue, so I'm going to argue the other side again.

A lot of crossdressers and other transgendered individuals often go though a phase of "gender euphoria." This is a time when the TG individual is fully engrossed in living as the other sex. This could be brought about by a change in circumstances, a more accepting spouse or SO, whatever. But whatever the reason, the TG individual feels much freer to express the other gender. During this time, the TG acts, with respect to his/her gender, with all of the insight, forethought, prudence, and experience of a thirteen-year-old. The euphoria of finally begin a woman (or a man) causes the person to go to extremes and do things that she (or he) would not normally do. Later, as the euphoria wears off, the person is left with many regrets for things said and done that were not well thought out.

I would caution you to therefore go very, very slowly. Dates are ok. Beyond casual dating lies a huge potential series of problems. Where do you go? Do you become a gay couple? Do you transition and live as a woman? Do you both live as women? What happens when the fling is over? Where do you go from there? What about your other interests, family, and friends. Will you tell them? What will you tell them?

Think first. It's easier to think first and leap second. It's hard to unleap. Which reminds me of an old, bad joke. What's the difference between a light bulb and a pregnant woman?

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[Rachel Ann]

What happens when the fling is over?
Your points are well taken, Christina, but I think that Windy is in no great danger as long as safe sex is practiced.

Flings have happened since time began, and in this case, the other party doesn't even live where she does, so impacts on existing relationships are unlikely as long as she doesn't talk about it.

The important thing about a fling is to recognize it for what it is and not get unduly invested in it, emotionally or otherwise. If not for flings and affairs, those of us not in capital-R Relationships would be SO lonely!


What's the difference between a light bulb and a pregnant woman?
That's ONE thing a Tgirl doesn't have to worry about. :p

Rachel xx

[sherri]

I think the euphoria thing is a common phenomenon, and the sad fact is that for a CD flings tend to be the norm rather than the exception, butwho's to say they can't settle into a sane long-term relationship. Windy may be a tad euphoric right now (I know I would be), but she has a good head on her shoulders.

To me, the biggest blip on her radar screen is the bedroom scene. Having no experience and not knowing how she will feel about it all, it should be interesting. Wish I could be a fly on the wall. :p

[windycissy]

Sisters,

Methinks this conversation has taken place millions of times at slumber parties and sororities through the generations, without the twist;)

I know I am giddy over what's happening to me, in fact my boyfriend teases me about acting like a teenager. But we are both mature adults, so our hormones aren't exactly raging. Last night I reminded him of the old Frank Sinatra song:

"We're on the road to romance, that's safe to say,
But let's make all the stops along the way...."

It's the same old dilemma all women face: I want to keep my self-respect, but I want him to ask me out again too. I do have an edge though: I know how many ways there are for a girl to please a man....

Windy

[Rachel Ann]

... the sad fact is that for a CD flings tend to be the norm rather than the exception ...
What's wrong with that? Many don't want a committed, long-term relationship - or are already in one. :p

[Pamela girl]

Don't want to sound like I'm bashing and I hope you don't take it that way however keep in mind we all enjoy crossdressing and pretending to be women, pushing the envolope going out trying not to be noticed, hiding who we pretend to be from our freinds and family. But when you cross that line you are then a homosexual. Period. All the clothes and makup aside you are a guy sucking another guys d***

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

And your point is....

For what it's worth there is such a thing as bisexuality and in fact studies show sexuality is spectrum that society pretends is a duality.

[Rachel Ann]

I detect a whiff of homophobia here ... TG phobia is a close relative.


But when you cross that line you are then a homosexual. Period.
Or bisexual. Or, just adventurous. Or curious. Or eager to please.


All the clothes and makup aside you are a guy sucking another guys d***
If you are a girl doing one thing, then you are a girl doing anything. There are many acts that may or may not take place between a Tgirl and a boy or another Tgirl.

[windycissy]

Girls, girls....remember how you told me to stop worrying so much about what was happening to me, and just go with my heart and enjoy the experience of dating a handsome guy?

I promise that I am not scheming about how to get Mr. Right into the sack! I really like him, he treats me like a woman and makes me feel like one, and if we snuggle and have a little fun after he takes me home, is that so wrong? I am a totally straight guy, but when I become Windy I want to experience life as Windy....call me curious, call me confused, call me crazy, but I've never been happier.

Tomorrow will be so much fun! Today I bought a little candy cane pin to wear on my sweater. I've always envied girls who get to dress up for the holidays...now I'm one of them! He's picking me up at eight tomorrow night, and I just hope I can get some beauty sleep. Wish me luck!

Windy

[lawnmanmo]

Girls, girls....remember how you told me to stop worrying so much about what was happening to me, and just go with my heart and enjoy the experience of dating a handsome guy?

I promise that I am not scheming about how to get Mr. Right into the sack! I really like him, he treats me like a woman and makes me feel like one, and if we snuggle and have a little fun after he takes me home, is that so wrong? I am a totally straight guy, but when I become Windy I want to experience life as Windy....call me curious, call me confused, call me crazy, but I've never been happier.

Tomorrow will be so much fun! Today I bought a little candy cane pin to wear on my sweater. I've always envied girls who get to dress up for the holidays...now I'm one of them! He's picking me up at eight tomorrow night, and I just hope I can get some beauty sleep. Wish me luck!

Windy

Dear Windy
PLEASE tell us all about it and if you can.....take some wonderful pics of yourself.
Jerry

[Jesse69]

Windy, I guess I am the only member who wouldn't do what you have done. But I guess you can't help it if he's a real handsome guy. Would he permit you to post a pic of him here so we can see him?

Can you name the specific places in Chicago where you've gone out with him?

In all my life in Chicago I never saw a CDr out with a man in regular public places.

Well, if it goes too far I guess you have become gay ?

[Christa]

There she goes again. :loser: Jesse's got a track record of being pretty negative, Windy. Just take it with a grain of salt.

I used to live in Chicago so I know what a wonderfully accepting town it can be. I say more power to you, Sister!

[JoannaDees]

Don't want to sound like I'm bashing and I hope you don't take it that way however keep in mind we all enjoy crossdressing and pretending to be women, pushing the envolope going out trying not to be noticed, hiding who we pretend to be from our freinds and family. But when you cross that line you are then a homosexual. Period. All the clothes and makup aside you are a guy sucking another guys d***

It amazes me that people even care.

[ReginaK]

Wow, Windy. That sounds like a dream come true.

Life is meant to be enjoyed. Don't worry if people think you're gay, crazy, or whatever. All that matters in the end is that you don't do anything that can hurt yourself or others. As long as you stay safe and honest with yourself and your new beau, I see absolutely nothing wrong with your situation.

[Jesse69]

There she goes again. :loser: Jesse's got a track record of being pretty negative, Windy. Just take it with a grain of salt.

I used to live in Chicago so I know what a wonderfully accepting town it can be. I say more power to you, Sister!

Well, I still live in Chicago and they call me a nerd, gay, or unpopular simply because of my crossdressing. Maybe the only acceptance you'll get is from gay people. Truthfully I don't have any gay friends because I don't want it to lead to gay encounters. So I find Chicago is not too accepting of crossdressors. But they won't bother you on the street.

I've never gone out in drag so I don't know how people would treat me. But I would want to be perfectly passable if I do.

I don't believe in promiscious sex and I am still a virgin too. I don't want to catch any diseases from anyone. And I'm a good Catholic except for my crossdressing fetish / fault.

I think crossdressing is a somewhat bad habit I should quit. But I can't quit. And I would never purge what I got now. I think I should just stop buying more clothes, dress less often, and date girls.

I think those of you who dress up and have sex with men are going to far. But that's your lifestyle and I'm not stopping you.

[Abby Lauren]

Windy
We all have fantasies and the biggest one is that we are women. We all seek acceptance as women and nothing connotes acceptance as a woman more than someone who wants to love us as women. I have always been heterosexual and consider myself a lesbian but, were I in your heels, I can actually believe myself saying yes. Like you, I would never have believed that possible and I am not looking for this at all. But, the way you so beautifully described it, the moment was magical and you found yourself giving in to a wonderful sensation. You have no prior experience with this and have no idea where this is leading nor do you know for sure where you want it to go. Therefore, don't be in any great rush to fulfill a preconceived notion of where this is supposed to lead to. Try to be comfortable with yourself each step of the way. But, if it continues to feel right, it probably reflects a side of you you never knew existed- but it does exist, girl.
Very interested in where this is going. Just feel comfortable.
Hugs,
Abby

[Rachel Ann]

I'm a good Catholic except for my crossdressing fetish / fault. I think crossdressing is a somewhat bad habit I should quit.
Have you ever considered talking to a psychotherapist about this? You seem to have a lot of self-hatred going on, and that isn't good for anyone.

[Shelly Preston]

Dear Windy

I hope you have a wonderful time with this guy

If it leads to something more then hopefully it will seem like the natural thing to do.
Just be sure in your own mind.
You can always say no

As for being gay well how may labels do we have to choose from gay, straight, bi sexual, metrosexual, multi sexual, crossdresser, transvestite, transexual and many more. so should we label anyone ?

[windycissy]

Where do I begin?

He was a little late (as usual) but that was fine because I took my time getting dressed, I wore a short (for me) gray skirt, black top accesorized by a Christmas scarf and my candy cane pin, black hose and flats. Mr. Right had on a dreamy sport jacket, and looked quite dashing! He is taller than me when I wear flats, and I took his arm as he led me into the restaurant, which was just amazing. He presented me with a single pink rose, held back my chair when I sat down, and ordered a Lavendar Cosmopolitan for me - a girlie drink if ever there was one. It was delicious! He had a Manhattan. We talked about everything - movies, literature, music - and the one time I brought up how weird the whole thing was, he gently steered the conversation back to other things.

After we split a delicious crab cake appitizer, he had salmon, and I had scallops. Then he invited me back to his hotel room for coffee and dessert....

My head is still spinning. Let's just say he rounded second base and I stopped him as he was steaming towards third - the American girls will know what I mean. He was a perfect gentleman as he escorted me back to my place, and we exchanged the perfect CD christmas presents: clip-on earrings for me (they are elegant!) and I gave him the jumper that I wore the night I made dinner for him (because he kept going on about how much he wished he had a dress like that).

There is only one thing wrong with this guy: he is the world's worst picture-taker! Or do you think maybe he was a little nervous? That blur you see is me in my Christmas outfit, holding my rose:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5cc34b3127cce96750aaf5db000000015108IatWLlw0aW

I may see him again before he leaves town....

Windy

[sherri]

Second base ... hmmm, I'm trying to figure out what that was exactly ...

:p

Sounds like a wonderful evening, Windy. So how do you feel about the whole thing? What are your thoughts? What's the prognosis?

[Sweet Susan]

As an example of how amazing this thread is, this is the first multiple page thread ever that I have read each and every word of each and every posting. Simply a thriller in action. The suspense from page one where it all began and page three where we currently are has been fascinating. What we call in literature a page turner! What we call in baseball a cliffhanger, a hell of a game!

Cissy, I don't know where to begin but to say, 'you go, girl.'

Like Sherri, I am baffled about rounding second, but stopped short of third, so I'm going to just say the hell with it and take a stab at what I think you meant, as well as speculate on what it all means. Please take no offense, and for those of you who don't enjoy a good game of baseball, stop reading now.

First base, based on your original post, must be the first date and the kiss good night. Not sure what the kiss good night could really mean, because I've had good night kisses that were just a peck, and I've had good night kisses that were tongue jobs that left me limp and full of desire. Anyway........

Second base would have to mean sitting on the sofa and doing some serious necking. Rounding second, but denied third is a bit confusing. Was he thrown out trying to reach third, or did he safely return to second? Was he caught in a pickle, made a mad dash and slid safely under the short-stops glove to second? Was it even a close play? Or did he simply round second, stop, look, and return to second. You mentioned that he "steamed toward third," and you stopped him, so I'm assuming he actually made a serious attempt at reaching third.

Regardless, it is safe to assume that since he reached second, he accomplished more than a pleasant kiss goodnight, which, as I see it, would be a mere bunt. In my mind, reaching second would have to result in serious erections all around. I only bring this up because it would play into the matter of you being or not being a "straight guy." Obviously, that is not the case. In fact, if you were straight, you would have not asked him if he would consider dating you with you being the girl and he being the guy. Nope, if you were a straight guy you would have kept it simple and simply met and dressed together. After all, straight is straight.

Third? Just what exactly is third base? I would have to believe that third is where most of us would like to get. Obviously a home run, whether it is an inside the ball park home run or a fence clearing blast, would be out of the question for many of us, but a delightful, bench clearing celebration for others. I see third as anything from, between, and to heavy kissing, fondling, nakedness, oral sex; the sequence beginning at heavy kissing and fondling and ending at oral sex, with any stop along the way. I would think that for your friend to reach third base would be an extremely good show of excellent base-running or a good clean hit down the sidelines that caused your outfielder to make a late defensive throw. After all, triples are hard to come by. (Then again, they might be easy to come by, depending on your expectation.)

Whatever. Cissy, I'm thinking that you are in this for what it brings, and it may bring a pennant. Who knows. Nonetheless, I think it only proper to remember your youth and what it felt like to be teased. Your friend is expecting to hit a homerun, and why shouldn't he. If you don't want any sluggers on your turf, then you need to think about calling the game because of rain, because I have to believe that while his intentions may be honorable, there are only so many pitches a batter can let go by before he unleashes a blast to bring the fans out of their seats.

[Darlena]

Good for you Windy! You are so very lucky. And he sounds like a dreamboat. Don't let the naysayers and homophobes decide for you and ruin your chance for true fulfillment. The ones who say "no" are just being anal anyway. Love & kisses,

[Linda-x]

It's tough to keep a score card, but I don't see any errors..LOL The urban dictionary is a little fuzzy on 2nd base, but it is generally fondling the breasts, but could be a little more, and third base is oral stuff. And I think we all know what 4th base is !! So you gave him a dress? Is he a CD'er too, or was it just fore keepsake?

[womanatheart]

Has this not been the post of all times! It has for me. Windy - thanks for putting up with all of us. You have had your own emotions leading into this special night/moment and then listening to the chatter of the 100s of friends who chimed in (onlookers). You have taken our peering so graceful. Which is exactly how I imagined you are. Quite a woman.

Pamela Girl: your comment about being "gay". It provoked me to think all day on that. My conclusion is: there are many examples when the mind will over ride the body; old person lifting a car in an emergency, POW actually visualizing golfing, basketball players improving free throws by only visualizing. My point; I believe a cder can actually mentally think oneself to be a woman. Gay? No. Woman? - Yes. Have desires of a woman? Yes.

Love,
Stephanie

[Abby Lauren]

I agree that this is a wonderful and unique thread and I, too, eagerly await the next installment. I'm also rooting for both of you, girl.

[Jesse69]

Have you ever considered talking to a psychotherapist about this? You seem to have a lot of self-hatred going on, and that isn't good for anyone.

Yes, I've gone to a Psychotherapist a few times. All he said was that it's ok to be gay & etc. Figures he'd say that when he counsels a lot of gay. I was made to go because of probation for punching someone. Otherwise, I would never have seen a psycho.

I don't hate myself. It's just that people hate me (for crossdressing).

I guess from this thread it shows where other cdr's stand on issues with dating a guy.

[windycissy]

Has this not been the post of all times! It has for me. Windy - thanks for putting up with all of us. You have had your own emotions leading into this special night/moment and then listening to the chatter of the 100s of friends who chimed in (onlookers). You have taken our peering so graceful. Which is exactly how I imagined you are. Quite a woman.

It is I who must thank you and all the girls for your wonderful words of encouragement. To those who have expressed their misgivings, rest assured that the same thoughts have tormented me too. To those who have cheered me on, your support means more than you'll ever know. I have no clue where this will lead to, but it helps immeasurably to have this forum to share my journey with.

Mr. Right just called and asked me to have breakfast with him tomorrow at his hotel! I told him I would be taking a calculated risk to let him see me in broad daylight, but if he was game, so was I. So tomorrow morning, I will call in sick, put on a skirt and we will try to make small talk over coffee and newspapers....

I wonder if he will bring up last night? I am sorry if I was too opaque in describing our bedroom scene, I did not want to appear indelicate. What happened was this: we kissed, he started to get hot, then I had an inspiration and fondled him with my scarf. He loved it! I took off my skirt, what a feeling when he stroked me through my nylons! We were both getting pretty close, until I got cold feet and broke it off. Get the picture?

Virginity intact. Totally screwed up in the head. That about sums me up,

Windy

[Kimberly]

Awww, hunny.

Things are moving along, but take time over it!

Welcome to the world of a confused 19yr old ;)

[Rachel Ann]

Second base ... hmmm, I'm trying to figure out what that was exactly ...
The urban dictionary is a little fuzzy on 2nd base, but it is generally fondling the breasts, but could be a little more, and third base is oral stuff. And I think we all know what 4th base is!!Ummm, never heard of 4th base, Linda - but it sounds exotic! :cool:


First base, based on your original post, must be the first date and the kiss good night. … Second base would have to mean sitting on the sofa and doing some serious necking. … Third? Just what exactly is third base? I see third as anything from, between, and to heavy kissing, fondling, nakedness, oral sex; the sequence beginning at heavy kissing and fondling and ending at oral sex, with any stop along the way.I suppose I’m showing my age here, but when I was in HS, 1st base was anything from her neck up, 2nd base anything above her waist, and 3rd base was anything below her waist short of a Home Run, which speaks for itself. His neck and waist may have figured in the stats but didn't count towards the outcome of the game. ;)

Kids did it back then, it just wasn’t talked about except for locker room lies. Some guy once asked a smart-ass question about syphilis in “Boys' Hygiene” class and the teacher said that the word ought not to be in the vocabulary of a student at that school. :eek:


Rounding second, but denied third is a bit confusing. Was he thrown out trying to reach third, or did he safely return to second? Was he caught in a pickle, made a mad dash and slid safely under the short-stops glove to second? Was it even a close play? Or did he simply round second, stop, look, and return to second. You mentioned that he "steamed toward third," and you stopped him, so I'm assuming he actually made a serious attempt at reaching third.Sounds to me like it may have been a rundown. I heard no mention of another base runner who might have been tagged for the third out. :p


Regardless, it is safe to assume that since he reached second, he accomplished more than a pleasant kiss goodnight, which, as I see it, would be a mere bunt.I once saw Rickey Henderson get a double off of a remarkable bunt that made it well in to left field. Tony La Russa was furious, because Rickey was supposed to swing away, stop at first and steal second. But I guess actual baseball is a bit off-topic here. :o

[sherri]

we kissed, he started to get hot, then I had an inspiration and fondled him with my scarf. He loved it! I took off my skirt, what a feeling when he stroked me through my nylons! We were both getting pretty close, until I got cold feet and broke it off. Get the picture?

Boy do I! Love the scarf thing, that does feel good. But that poor guy, stranded on second with no one to bring him home! :p Sounds like he's cool though. Scoring a run is great, but the base running is at least half the fun.
So what kind of feelings are you having about the whole thing?

[Linda-x]

Ummm, never heard of 4th base, Linda - but it sounds exotic! :cool:



OMG !!! I didn't realize until now what I had written. LOL I am such a silly girl!
I meant home plate, or whatever !
Windy, let us know how breakfest goes !...:)

[windycissy]

So I got out of bed, and went for a long, long jog along the lake, lost in thought about what was happening to me....

Almost as if I was being pulled along by an invisible force, I showered, put on my makeup, did my nails, and got dressed. Normally this time of year I wear pants, but I put on a skirt and nylons for my breakfast with Mr. Right. Brrrrr!

It was very daunting, walking into the lobby of his hotel. He put me at ease immediately with a peck on my cheek and a cheery "Hi, honey!" We went into the breakfast room, and he made them give us a nice table overlooking Michigan Avenue. We went to the buffet line, and he helped himself to a huge plate of bacon and eggs, while I worried about my girlish figure.

At first, the conversation was very stilted. I can't remember who broke the ice finally, but we started to talk about our feelings, and soon it was the best conversation with him I have ever had. It was our fifth date after all, so we know each other pretty well by now, and nothing was held back as we talked about our feelings for each other.

He says he loves me, and I have feelings for him, but we each have our "real" lives and who knows when we'll see each other again. We both agreed that it is a break that we live far apart, otherwise the inevitable trajectory would result in a forced, unhappy ending before either of us were ready.

I just re-read the above, it sounds so heavy! One amusing vignette: I discovered that he was staring at my legs, and took great amusement in crossing them and tugging at my skirt as I felt the power all women have over a man....

Girls, I truly have no idea where this is going, but we are having a lot of fun. When we left the restaurant, we each got out cigarettes, and when he forgot to light mine, I punched him in the arm. He got out his lighter and the look on his face said, "Women!"

Windy

[Rachel Ann]

My point; I believe a cder can actually mentally think oneself to be a woman. Gay? No. Woman? - Yes. Have desires of a woman? Yes.Right on, Stephanie! I am ACHING to find someone hold me and take me - even though my "sexual preference" is still for GGs.

[Abby Lauren]

Oh Crissy
You write so well and so descriptively that I could well imagine myself preparing myself for my date and thoroughly enjoying the sensations on the date.
Mind you, I never ever had an inkling that I could feel this. So, it's a tribute to your writing and empathic abilities to evoke these feelings.
I'm actually sorry for myself that it has been at least temporarily suspended. Like a good novel, I will miss it. Please let us know if anything further transpires.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Our little novella of sorts:p
Well, I think ppl get way too hung up over what's is str8, what is gay and what is bi. For whom do these labels really serve? I think it's more for the ppl who don't want to be indentified as something that is 'less' than whatever is considered socially acceptable (again, for whatever that means). Somehow I don't envision that 'gay ppl' went around saying, "what do we call ourselves?" "Gee, we don't want to seem unhappy or unapproachable, why don't we call ourselves 'gay'!" Seriously, kidz, think about it.
That is all, carry on............

[Janice Ann]

Windy--gawd I wished I had that problem

[GirlyGirl]

windycissy, you are living the dream girl.

GG

[RobynP]

Windy,

You should read Alice in Genderland: A Crossdresser Comes of Age, by Richard Novak, M.D., if you haven't already.... The description (from amazon.com) is:

Alice in Genderland tells the story of Dr. Richard Novic, Harvard-educated psychiatrist and crossdresser. No memoir like it has ever been published. Most of the time, he is a man at the office or a husband and father at home. But one evening a week, she is a woman about town, shopping, dining, dancing, and dating a man for over five years. And it’s all out in the open.

Robyn P.

[Christina Nicole]

My point; I believe a cder can actually mentally think oneself to be a woman. Gay? No. Woman? - Yes. Have desires of a woman? Yes.


When I'm Male I'm 100% Male and will kick Ass and Rumble, I work with a lot of tough mother*******, but when I'm Jenny I am 100% Jenny and if, as you put it I wish to suck someones **** then I will, and I'll make a good job of it! I will fullfill my role as a girl, for me its not Homo, But 100% hetero, he's a guy and I'm a girl so leave Windy to make her own choices as to how far she goes and Windy I am GREEN with envy Have fun girl be carefull but enjoy.
Love and Hugs.
Jenny.


Well there goes the argument that many CDers have used with wives and girlfriends. Now one can't say, "It's only clothes." Nor can one say, "What I wear doesn't change the person I am inside." Because, if a crossdresser says either one to his wife or girlfriend, she will "know" that he wants to date men and sleep with men. It says so right here on this forum.

In an oblique way, this also demolishes the argument that when a woman wears slacks, or a men's shirt, tee, etc that's she's crossdressing just as he is. It eliminates that argument because when she puts on that shirt, she isn't looking to be all the man that she can be by dating another woman and taking her to bed.

There are quite a few other CD/TG themes that I could deconstruct pretty effectively with this thread, but the point should be pretty clear. Threads like this make life a lot harder for the crossdresser with a non-accepting, or at least a questioning spouse or significant other.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[KathrynW]

When I'm Male I'm 100% Male and will kick Ass and Rumble, I work with a lot of tough mother*******, but when I'm Jenny I am 100% Jenny and if, as you put it I wish to suck someones **** then I will, and I'll make a good job of it! I will fullfill my role as a girl, for me its not Homo, But 100% hetero
100% hetero?
Are you 100% sure about that? ;)

[Rachel Ann]

Now one can't say, "It's only clothes." Nor can one say, "What I wear doesn't change the person I am inside." Because, if a crossdresser says either one to his wife or girlfriend, she will "know" that he wants to date men and sleep with men. It says so right here on this forum.

This is the same logic used by the hooker who "knows" that all women are prostitutes because she is one.

[windycissy]

I guess it was too good to last: we broke up last night. I said some things I shouldn't have about how weird I was feeling about our relationship, and told him I just wanted to be friends, which did not go down well. Although a part of my heart wishes I could be the woman he wants me to be, I know in my head that this is for the best, but it still sucks....

Windy

[ReginaK]

I guess it was too good to last: we broke up last night. I said some things I shouldn't have about how weird I was feeling about our relationship, and told him I just wanted to be friends, which did not go down well. Although a part of my heart wishes I could be the woman he wants me to be, I know in my head that this is for the best, but it still sucks....

Windy

:(

That does suck. But you've lived many peoples' dream and had a once in a lifetime experience. Always remember the good times and let those memories heal your heart.

[Abby Lauren]

Windy
Thank you again for having the courage to live your fantasy and for taking us on this magical ride with you. It's been very special.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Breaking up is tough. But it sounds like you made a decision that was right for you.

[Pamela girl]

Sorry to piss everybody off but when ask for peoples opinion and all that was said was "Go for it, You go girl, it's ok, nothing maters but what you want, ect" and when I speak the truth and at least bring up the other side everybody throws a hissyfit.
We all know what we are "men who wish we were women" and have a good time pretending. I'm sorry to all of you who think you really are a women when you put the clothes on but mabey someone needed to point out the obvious.
I still dress when I can but realize it will never become a reality for me to wear what I want to work and pretend it is normal and have everybody accept me in an office suit with heels and makup.
So there everybody go ahead and throw another hissyfit then wear your favorite fantasy outfit tomorow and prove me wrong. Oh and please post the pics and story here. I will read them all

[Christina Nicole]

This is the same logic used by the hooker who "knows" that all women are prostitutes because she is one.

That's a brilliant thought, but entirely off target. It’s not a logical extension of the posts that I have made. It’s not even logical in the given context even if one broadly considers Linear, Boolean, Modal, Fuzzy, Deductive or any other type of logic. The issue is that a woman, who has a husband, boyfriend, or some other type of significant other who presumes that he is gay because "everyone knows crossdressers are gay" will have that thought confirmed here by this, and other similar, threads. Your post does not address that in any fashion.

These are more apt analogies:

Someone goes to the message board of the web site women.com and sees a lot of posts about kids, fashion, and the like. They don't see, nor do they expect to see a lot about being a hooker. They don't see posts like "I put on a great outfit that made me feel pretty and sexy, so I went out and worked as a hooker!"
Someone goes the message board of the web site crossdressers.com and sees lots of posts about clothes, lingerie, and the like. They expect to see that. They also see a number of posts about men dressing as women and going on dates with other men and getting intimate. They see those posts and think, "Ah ha! I thought so."


Both cases reinforce the perception that people have. They expect that the message board of women.com to have stuff about kids, diets, celebrities and things like that. They don't expect, and they do not find a lot of women wanting to be hookers. Regarding the crossdressers site, most people who are not crossdressers probably expect that crossdressers are gay or have gay tendencies. They come here and they find posts that confirm that prejudice.

Now that the prejudice is confirmed it will be especially difficult for someone who is crossdresser to gain any support, sympathy, or acceptance. The wife, girlfriend, etc has had her suspicions confirmed. She moved few steps further on having her mind completely made up.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[Jesse69]

That's a brilliant thought, but entirely off target. It’s not a logical extension of the posts that I have made. It’s not even logical in the given context even if one broadly considers Linear, Boolean, Modal, Fuzzy, Deductive or any other type of logic. The issue is that a woman, who has a husband, boyfriend, or some other type of significant other who presumes that he is gay because "everyone knows crossdressers are gay" will have that thought confirmed here by this, and other similar, threads. Your post does not address that in any fashion.

These are more apt analogies:

Someone goes the message board of the web site crossdressers.com and sees lots of posts about clothes, lingerie, and the like. They expect to see that. They also see a number of posts about men dressing as women and going on dates with other men and getting intimate. They see those posts and think, "Ah ha! I thought so."


... Regarding the crossdressers site, most people who are not crossdressers probably expect that crossdressers are gay or have gay tendencies. They come here and they find posts that confirm that prejudice.

Now that the prejudice is confirmed it will be especially difficult for someone who is crossdresser to gain any support, sympathy, or acceptance. The wife, girlfriend, etc has had her suspicions confirmed. She moved few steps further on having her mind completely made up.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

Well, Christine, I wasn't gung ho like the others and I said I would never do what Windy did. And I do suffer from the labeling and misconceptions that all crossdressors are men lovers and **** suckers.

My social life has really suffered a lot from these general ideas about crossdressors, but maybe I have to admit I'm alienated. I don't know any gay people and I don't go to gay bars. So I'm one of the few crossdressors that keep it mostly straight.

Christina - are you a genetic girl ?

[KathrynW]

Sorry to piss everybody off but when ask for peoples opinion and all that was said was "Go for it, You go girl, it's ok, nothing maters but what you want, ect" and when I speak the truth and at least bring up the other side everybody throws a hissyfit. We all know what we are "men who wish we were women" and have a good time pretending. I'm sorry to all of you who think you really are a women when you put the clothes on but mabey someone needed to point out the obvious. I still dress when I can but realize it will never become a reality for me to wear what I want to work and pretend it is normal and have everybody accept me in an office suit with heels and makup. So there everybody go ahead and throw another hissyfit then wear your favorite fantasy outfit tomorow and prove me wrong. Oh and please post the pics and story here. I will read them all
Pamela-
Hmmmm...I guess I missed your post, but I agree with you 100%. Just because cd's wear clothes to express their femme side, that most certainly does NOT mean they're 100% women. Oh yes, I've heard the tired old routine "when I dress male, I'm a MAN and when I dress female, I'm a WOMAN". Sorry to burst the bubble of whoever believes that, but it's simply NOT true. If you desire having sex or fooling around with men while cd-ing....Guess What? Newsflash!
You're not 100% Heterosexual.
You may be gay or bi. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if that's where your head is. Just don't claim because of the clothes, you're 100% woman, and therefore, it's ok to have sex with guys.

[ReginaK]

Both cases reinforce the perception that people have. They expect that the message board of women.com to have stuff about kids, diets, celebrities and things like that. They don't expect, and they do not find a lot of women wanting to be hookers. Regarding the crossdressers site, most people who are not crossdressers probably expect that crossdressers are gay or have gay tendencies. They come here and they find posts that confirm that prejudice.

Now that the prejudice is confirmed it will be especially difficult for someone who is crossdresser to gain any support, sympathy, or acceptance. The wife, girlfriend, etc has had her suspicions confirmed. She moved few steps further on having her mind completely made up.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

That's an excellent point, but it can also be attacked from another angle. I think it's more productive to educate people so they will realize that we are no different than the rest of society: Some of us are gay, some of us are straight.

Likening a homosexual or bi-sexual crossdresser to a prostitute is counter-productive to, for lack of a better phrase, "our cause". Thinking like that will only create a newer, yet more flattering, stereotype of "all crossdressers are perfectly straight and only the weird ones are gay." And that stereotype is just as bad as "all crossdressers are homosexual".

Wives, girlfriends, and society in general should be told the truth about crossdressing, not shielded from the less than savory parts for the purpose of not rocking the boat.

[KathrynW]

That's an excellent point, but it can also be attacked from another angle. I think it's more productive to educate people so they will realize that we are no different than the rest of society: Some of us are gay, some of us are straight.
"some" would be the key word there. The majority of cd's are straight hetero. If you think you're going to "educate" the public concerning cd's (which is a stretch at best), does it really make sense to make things even more complicated? No.

[windycissy]

Wives, girlfriends, and society in general should be told the truth about crossdressing, not shielded from the less than savory parts for the purpose of not rocking the boat.

My sentiments exactly. This whole thing started with me asking for advice about how to deal with a dating a guy, and most of the responses told me to stop thinking so much and go with my heart. Which is what I did, and it was wonderful, until my head took over and screwed things up. Oh well! I have learned so much, about myself and the way we preceive ourselves. I do think there is a danger in trying to stifle experimentation so as not to give crossdressing a bad image - that smacks of political correctness. There are all kinds of crossdressers, and most of us may be totally straight, but I had the opportunity to experience a little romance as a woman, and I'm glad I did.

Windy

[Bonnie D]

Windy, if you weren't ready you weren't ready. If you change your mind, I'm sure you can contact him and work things out. If you don't change your mind then I'm sure you learned something about yourself through the experience.

The majority of crossdressers are heterosexual and if they are in a relationship, they are faithful. However, a small percentage of us are not. I'm not 100% anything, I'm both male and female but physically male, I'm bisexual and I'm not faithful. Therefore, I'm in the small percentage group. I'm not a pervert. But because I'm not in the larger percentage group should I refrain from revealing these facts about myself to protect the larger group. If I did then this group would not exist because the larger group, hetersexuals, would find this site damaging to their lifestyle.

Bonnie

[Abby Lauren]

Dear Windy
Just going with your heart can be very risky. I agree that perhaps you weren't quite ready to go through with this but that doesn't preclude some time in the future.
In any case, I am grateful to you for sharing this journey with us.

[Stephenie]

Windy, you have had quite a lesson. You have learned what it is like to be wined and dined. To be treated as some one very special and how to tell some one where the limits are. That is something I think a women learn as teenagers. You have been true to your self and you tryed not to hurt some one else by being honest. I really admire you for being able to learn all of this.

[Janice Ann]

Wow ! I must say Windy opened up a can of worms-- Good going girl!
You brought out the good and the bad in folks-- and when it said and done- Hey girl you give us all something to think about (or wish for)- Live and let live- And give respect when it is due--- GOOD JOB Windy- Way to be girl !
jealous Janice Ann

[Rachel Ann]

Ladies, ladies!

From the incredible response to this thread, I think that Windy brought up something that resonated far and wide.

I get the impression that some here feel that unless we all present as celibate (or at least exclusively heterosexual), we are somehow defaming Tgirls in general. This forum isn’t “Ladylike Magazine”, it’s an honest window to our true feelings and great diversity.

If you want to get on somebody’s case for reinforcing base canards about us, why not start with Michael Jackson?

Rachel x

[lewcornelius]

Dear Windy,

I hope your future with your friend holds endless possibilities for you and I concur with your sisters that time and honesty will permit the relationship to develop to your mutual satisfaction.
Unlike many of the others here. I have a situation which is analogous. Through emails and chat I have found a special lady, I hardly spend a day without thinking about. The problem is we are both, for want of a better term heterogenuous guys. I have tried repeatedly to overcome both her shyness and her reluctance to overcome her questions of sexuality and I have found many of the comments of the ladies instructive and am sure you will also. Best of luck on the future and to all Merry Christmas.

[KathrynW]

I get the impression that some here feel that unless we all present as celibate (or at least exclusively heterosexual), we are somehow defaming Tgirls in general.
I haven't seen anyone say that at all. Crossdressers come in all flavors, gay, bi & hetero. I don't think anyone is denying that fact. The point is, just don't be saying "I'm 100% straight" if you're a CD, and desire to be fooling around with a guy. ;)

[KarenNY]

but I was much younger, like 18, and had a private "prom date" with my best friend (a boy), where I wore the prom dress and everything, and he wore a tux. It was a wonderful evening -- I had come out to him a few months earlier and he was fascinated by how I looked en femme. He started coming over to my house to see Karen rather than my male self. We went on a few dates with me en femme, and we had that prom date at my house... it's a long story, but it's the most memorable evening I ever had en femme. My mother, who was supportive of my dressing took the pic of us that's on my profile. We had a romantic dinner for two and ended up slow dancing in the living room, and eventually we kissed and made out for a while on the couch... I was totally in girl mode!! We continued seeing each other for a while after that... but sadly, after a few more dates and confusion over where our relationship was going, we broke up, which just led to heartache and the dissolving of a good friendship...
So I know where you're coming from Windy...

[Christina Nicole]

That's an excellent point, but it can also be attacked from another angle. I think it's more productive to educate people so they will realize that we are no different than the rest of society: Some of us are gay, some of us are straight.

Likening a homosexual or bi-sexual crossdresser to a prostitute is counter-productive to, for lack of a better phrase, "our cause". Thinking like that will only create a newer, yet more flattering, stereotype of "all crossdressers are perfectly straight and only the weird ones are gay." And that stereotype is just as bad as "all crossdressers are homosexual".

Wives, girlfriends, and society in general should be told the truth about crossdressing, not shielded from the less than savory parts for the purpose of not rocking the boat.

Nearly all of the articles about crossdressing say that the clothes a crossdresser wears has nothing to do with who the crossdresser is. They write that there is no relationship between crossdressing, hetero-, homo-, and bi-sexual behavior. The posts above and specifically the quote shown here belie that statement.

So the truth about crossdressing is... what? It’s just about wearing women’s clothes? It's just about looking pretty? It's about emulating a favored woman? It's about pretending to be a woman? It's about being a woman? It's about getting a man? Just what is it about? The problem is that there is much contradictory information, especially on forums such as this one, that if a person goes to the web to be educated, he or she is just as likely to be educated with error.

Regarding the item about likening crossdressing to prostitution, if you read my post quite carefully, you’ll find I did no such thing. That you read a parallelism into my post is strictly your interpretation. You can't apply a transitive logical property to disconnected elements. I simply redirected Rachel's improper interpretation of my post, which preceded hers.

This next bit is underdeveloped, as I am still thinking it over, but here's a early draft of the idea.

Regarding one listening to one's heart vs. listening to one's head. I have seen little adult-like decision-making process regarding this and similar threads. If one realistically confronts all of the challenges, problems, and ramifications of something so fundamental and thereby comes to a decision, then fine. But on the other hand, if one just plunges headlong into something without knowing where one is going, that's a mistake. Parent counsel their children and teenagers against taking actions like these, because children and teens don't have adult experience to make good decisions. Most transgendered individuals acting in the role of a woman don't have the experience of a woman. They can't make the good decisions of a mature woman since a TG isn't a mature woman. Therefore, the transgendered individual must stop and think first. She must follow her head because her "woman's heart" and woman's intuition is unformed at this stage of development.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

[Rachel Ann]

Likening a homosexual or bi-sexual crossdresser to a prostitute is counter-productive … For crying out loud, Regina, I did not liken anyone to a prostitute. My analogy was to Christina's presumption about other peoples’ reasoning:
Because, if a crossdresser says either one to his wife or girlfriend, she will "know" that he wants to date men and sleep with men.as compared to

… the hooker who "knows" that all women are prostitutes because she is one.
Your error, Christina, is to generalize by presuming that all people, especially GGs, follow the same thought processes that you forecast.



Wives, girlfriends, and society in general should be told the truth about crossdressing, not shielded from the less than savory parts for the purpose of not rocking the boat.
That’s easy for you to say. Some will drown (have their lives ruined) if their boat is swamped.



The problem is that there is much contradictory information, especially on forums such as this one, that if a person goes to the web to be educated, he or she is just as likely to be educated with error.
That is because we are a very diverse group, and this is an evolving subject of study. And, the web is notoriously unreliable as a research tool, especially in a forum like this, where all remarks (including mine) are the unsupported statements of one individual.

This is a meeting place for crossdressers (and in some cases their SOs), not a public education site for wives and girlfriends. There are plenty of excellent educational links; a few are listed at the end of this post.



It’s not even logical in the given context even if one broadly considers Linear, Boolean, Modal, Fuzzy, Deductive or any other type of logic.
If you are going to throw about a lot of logic terms, you ought to take a refresher course. "Boolean Logic" is a system of notation, not a logical system. “Fuzzy Logic” is a PR term coined by someone in the computing industry.

You are relying on “Inductive Reasoning”. At best, that can get you an “unfalsifiable statement”, not a proof. Even if you have 99 examples all the same, I only need one counterexample to undo your conclusion. Your remarks are also rife with tautologies and contradictions. But, I would let that go were you not wrapping yourself in the flag of logic, to borrow a metaphor.



The issue is that … who presumes that he is gay because "everyone knows crossdressers are gay" will have that thought confirmed here. They see those posts and think, "Ah ha! I thought so." … They come here and they find posts that confirm that prejudice. … She moved few steps further on having her mind completely made up.
My, but you seem to know a lot about what’s in other people’s minds. Are you telepathic? You are quite fond of the word “confirmed”. Would not “supported” be the more appropriate term?



… They can't make the good decisions of a mature woman since a TG isn't a mature woman. Therefore, the transgendered individual must stop and think first. She must follow her head because her "woman's heart" and woman's intuition is unformed at this stage of development.
This is another utterly unsupported generalization. "Isn’t a mature woman"? Some TGs have been living 24x7 for decades. "Unformed"? Or just not completely formed (the same is true for many GGs of all ages).


I could go on but I trust that everybody gets the point by now.

Just please don’t misquote me any more Regina, especially about something so inflammatory. And Christina, if you’re going to cite logic for support, how about sticking to the rules of conventional logic?


Happy Holidays


Rachel

p.s. As promised, here are some good TG Educational Links:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender) (Wikipedia must be taken with a grain of salt, but this one seems to have been carefully done).

http://www.altsex.org/transgender/ (http://www.altsex.org/transgender/) (very comprehensive with lingo and technical information)

http://www.debradavis.org/gecpage/gectransinfo.html (http://www.debradavis.org/gecpage/gectransinfo.html)

http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-transgender-related-topics (http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-transgender-related-topics)


More links about Jung:

As I mentioned earlier, this is hardly a new concept. It's just been out of favor in mainstream psychiatry for a long time. DSM IV says that there are only Transsexuals with "Gender Identity Disorder" and "fetish crossdressers". All I can say is that for people who don't exist, there sure are a lot of us! A movement is underway to get GID removed from the DSM, just as homosexuality was in 1973. I hope that doesn't take another 10 years, but I'm not holding my breath.

Jung called a man's inner female the "Anima", and a woman's inner male the "Animus". Every woman has an Animus and every man an Anima, not just the transgendered.

Here are some links for those interested in the evolution and history of this concept:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/cathytg/anima.htm (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/cathytg/anima.htm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Jung)

http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/animaanimus2.html (http://www.mythsdreamssymbols.com/animaanimus2.html)

http://www.jungcircle.com/muse/lexicon.html (http://www.jungcircle.com/muse/lexicon.html)

http://www.francisdunnery.com/I%20think/In%20Support%20Of%20gender%20Roles.htm (http://www.francisdunnery.com/I%20think/In%20Support%20Of%20gender%20Roles.htm)

http://www.compilerpress.atfreeweb.com/1.%20Jungian%20Lexicon.htm (http://www.compilerpress.atfreeweb.com/1.%20Jungian%20Lexicon.htm)

[Tamara Croft]

This thread has totally gone off topic and is now being closed.