Are you CD or Transgender or both?

[Marleena]

There have been a few threads recently where CDers adamantly refuse to be thought of as transgender. So at what point can we call a CDer transgender if ever?

Some cases I think are clear cut. Fetish dressers should be called Cders as well as men that only care to wear womens clothes and not emulate. When the makeup and wig and clothes go on to look as feminine as possible is that the clue they are transgender? Or is it something else?

I'm just curious as how one decides the difference if there is one. Is it a personal choice?


Ohhh and don't get mad at me I'll just call you by your username so no labels are used anyways.

[Angela Campbell]

This is what Wikipedia says

Transgender is the state of one's gender identity (self-identification as woman, man, neither or both) not matching one's assigned sex (identification by others as male, female or intersex based on physical/genetic sex)

So I guess this applies to me. If you were born a male but feel like you are female...then you are TG

I also dress as a woman and I was born a male so I am also a CD

Another thing to keep in mind is crossdressing is an action and does not imply any motives. TG is what you are, not what you do.

[Ms. Laura]

I'm there with you, anxiously awaiting the answer because I don't know. It must come down to motivation?? Presumably, emulation would go along with a gender identity "thing" but not necessarily. I suppose you might just have a sort of cosplay mentality and like to emulate a female.

[Laura912]

I am a CD who is transgendered at times and who does not care about labels and will be the first to quote Popeye, "I yam what I yam." And as Lilly Tomlinson said in her role, "and that's the truth!! Phtbllt!!!

[celeste26]

I have come to understand the term Transgender as an umbrella term covering all types of activities whereas CD, and TS are more specific terms explaining the activity and their motivations.

[Jenniferathome]

Marleena, I have no confusion about what gender I am, even in a wig and forms and makeup, etc. I'm a man and don't want to be anything different than that. I'm a cross dresser and not transgender.

[Marleena]

I have come to understand the term Transgender as an umbrella term covering all types of activities whereas CD, and TS are more specific terms explaining the activity and their motivations.

That's the way I see it too Celeste but quite a few of the CDers don't like being called TG. They don't want to be under the umbrella.

I know I opened a can of worms but I think it's time to hear reasoning why being called TG is offensive.

[julie marie1]

For me when the wig and makeup go on it is strictly because I do not like to do things halfway. If I am going to put on the clothes and walk in public dressed, I want people to think (at least at first glance) that they see a women. I like long nails and polish and 3" heels (not actually really good for my height, but I am definitely not transgender, I am heterosexual CD all the way.

[ReineD]

Different people use different words to describe the same condition. In other words, you might feel just as compelled to express Marleena, as Jennifer feels compelled to express Jennifer, although Jennifer sees himself as a man (crossdresser) whereas you see yourself as a woman (transsexual). My SO feels equally compelled to be herself yet s/he says s/he is dual-gender or gender non-conforming, which others might mistake to mean "transgender" (somehow a cross between CD and TS :p). So if all three of you feel wonderful and comfortable when you dress, and you all dress at about the same frequency, and not one of you is near suicidal for the way that you live your lives, what's the difference between you?

You'll never get an agreement on the terms since there is no way to measure how "gendered" people feel.

And in terms of pure terminology, even the media gets it mixed up. They use "transgender" when describing transsexual children who will eventually transition, because they don't want to use a word that has "sex" in it.

Edit -
As far as I'm concerned, there are two kinds of people. Those who do not cross ANY gender boundaries in any way because they are NOT interested, and those who do, to widely varying degrees and for multiple reasons. The second group is differentiated from the first by using the term "transgender", even if individuals in this group identify purely as men or women. Within the second group, there are additional terms that people can use to differentiate themselves from one another in terms of intensitiy or degree of gender dysphoria, such as CD, TS, DQ, and a slew of others.

[ClaudineD]

Clearly by the Wikipedia definition I would be transgenedered.... but then I didn't need a book to tell me that!! LOL

[Marleena]

Different people use different words to describe the same condition. In other words, you might feel just as compelled to express Marleena, as Jennifer feels compelled to express Jennifer, although Jennifer sees himself as a man (crossdresser) whereas you see yourself as a woman (transsexual). My SO feels equally compelled to be herself yet s/he says s/he is dual-gender or gender non-conforming, which others might mistake to mean "transgender" (somehow a cross between CD and TS :p). So if all three of you feel wonderful and comfortable when you dress, and you all dress at about the same frequency, and not one of you is near suicidal for the way that you live your lives, what's the difference between you?

You'll never get an agreement on the terms since there is no way to measure how "gendered" people feel.


And in terms of pure terminology, even the media gets it mixed up. They use "transgender" when describing transsexual children who will eventually transition, because they don't want to use a word that has "sex" in it.

So it comes down to personal preference then right?

There is no clear cut answer?

[Raychel]

There have been a few threads recently where CDers adamantly refuse to be thought of as transgender. So at what point can we call a CDer transgender if ever?

Some cases I think are clear cut. Fetish dressers should be called Cders as well as men that only care to wear womens clothes and not emulate. When the makeup and wig and clothes go on to look as feminine as possible is that the clue they are transgender? Or is it something else?

I'm just curious as how one decides the difference if there is one. Is it a personal choice?


Ohhh and don't get mad at me I'll just call you by your username so no labels are used anyways.

Fetish dressers should be called Cders
Cders as well as men that only care to wear womens clothes and not emulate
When the makeup and wig and clothes go on to look as feminine as possible is that the clue they are transgender? Or is it something else?

So I am just a CDer then, Which is what I always really thought and felt.
I really have no desire for the wig, makeup or to emulate a woman in any way, Just like the clothes

[Julie Denier]

Marleena, I have no confusion about what gender I am, even in a wig and forms and makeup, etc. I'm a man and don't want to be anything different than that. I'm a cross dresser and not transgender.


For me when the wig and makeup go on it is strictly because I do not like to do things halfway. ... I am heterosexual CD all the way.


These are my sentiments as well, as further summed up in my signature -- I love dressing up and I love the illusion I create, but I'm male at heart and love being a guy.

[Suzy Parker]

I Yam What I Yam And That's All What I Yam, I Yam Suzy The Crossdresser Man.

[Courtney_Glenn]

I consider myself bigender. I'm not a fan of labels....but if any were to fit me, it would be that one.

[Nanaya]

I'm just a crossdresser. I only wear the clothes for the sake of wearing them. I do want to look as beautiful as possible. Not necessarily feminine, though.

[Dana L]

Good point! I myself feel as if I'm CD, although I've always felt I should have been a woman, so that would be TG. I live my life in a male role as being a father a husband and a man that works in the trades. I keep my hair long and I love everthing about being female from the shoes to the make up to the nails to the clothes, did I mention shoes. I have been on HRT and it has definatly helped with giving me a more feminine figure and softer skin not to mention a feeling of calm. I had to back off because I was getting to a point where it was hard to hide in a male role. My wife is totaly accepting of this but still want's to be married to a man. Although I would never consider SRS it wouldn't be all bad if I woke up one morning and my male genitalia was gone. CDing is a stress reliver. I feel at peace with myself when I'm dressed and I wish society would be understanding enough of us to look at CDing as an acceptable form of our self expression, no different than wearing our favorite team's jersey on game day.

[ReineD]

So it comes down to personal preference then right?

There is no clear cut answer?

Sure, if someone dresses part-time and are otherwise engaged in their lives, they dress part-time, whether they call themselves CD, TS, TG, bigender, dualgender, inbetweener, middlepather, etc. People find their levels.

There is only one clear cut answer, in my view, and this is someone's willingness to continue to live as a male vs transitioning and living full time. If it becomes unbearable to continue to live in the male gender, and if living full time including legal name change relieves the gender dysphoria ... (as opposed to waking up after SRS and going ballistic like a patient did at Dr. Brassard's, or living as a woman for awhile and then going back to male or inbetween) ... then you can safely say that the person had gender dysphoria severe enough to change her birth-sex (transsexual) in order to match her brain-gender. I believe that a person can change their birth-sex though sufficient doses of both HRT and adrogen-blockers, without necessarily undergoing SRS, especially if they cannot do so for health or financial reasons, or old age. But at that point, the testicles and penis would have withered away, and again, they need to be living full time with a legal name change in order to call themselves transwomen. IMO. This keeps things simple, so bottom line it is about full vs. part-time.

If you were to ask me about birth males who are on HRT to relieve the dysphoria, but who continue to live as men to their families, friends, and at work, then Marleena I don't have an answer. There are just too many variables including the strength of the hormones and androgen-blockers to pigeonhole such people under any one term.

[AllieSF]

Yes Marleena, I agree with you that there is no real correct answer. If I was in the UK, according to some of our members there, it would not be out of place to call me a transvestite, which is the Latin word for crossdresser and is a term based on my experience that also has a somewhat negative connotation associated with it. I like the transgender definition that means all of us, including all types of CD's, fetish to prim and proper going out all the time. Since we are a forum made up primarily of men who like to dress in some way as women, and from many different countries, I do not believe that we will ever get a true consensus on who is what. To me it really doesn't matter. Being mislabeled also does not bother me as long as it is not done to be mean. I feel comfortable about and with myself, so I am less sensitive than others may be. Someone in one of those recent threads that you mentioned also said that they usually give a brief description of what they mean when they use that term. I usually do that when referencing TG. I have no problem with being called either a CD or TG, and actually prefer to call myself a transgendered individual, one who likes to crossdress. For whatever reason, to me the word crossdresser seems to be on a lower rung on that non-existent ladder. I like being a step above that, kinda like the way that I like to dress, one step above the rest! Now is that vanity or what? Ooops, I do not want to start another thread topic within this one!

The interesting thing about some people's position is that they seem to fear being included in a classification that they do not like. Hell, we all have many classifications from man, to worker, to comic, to professional, to crossdresser to transgendered, to whatever. So, having many classifications or labels is really no big deal.

[Jessica Who]

I identify as transgender but don't like using a lot of labels :)

[DebbieL]

There have been a few threads recently where CDers adamantly refuse to be thought of as transgender. So at what point can we call a CDer transgender if ever?

Transgender is a very broad term see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender


Some cases I think are clear cut. Fetish dressers should be called Cders as well as men that only care to wear womens clothes and not emulate.

Fetish dressers and transvestites tend to dress primarily for sexual pleasure. Often, they have no desire to present as a woman, and don't want to go out in public. Some estimates suggest that as many as 1 in 4 men has engaged in such behavior more than once. Crossdressers and transsexuals may be sexually aroused at times when they are dressed, but their interests go beyond that into a deeper emotional need - a desire to present as a female. A transsexual is a "girl trapped in a boys body" or a "boy trapped in a girls body".

Harry Benjamin and a number of others have attempted various methods of defining and diagnosing. Often, the lines are blurry and shifty. For example, a transsexual may first consider himself a transvestite, then a cross-dresser, and then finally admit that he has always felt that he should be a woman, admitting he was transsexual. Conversely, many who consider themselves transsexual find that when they are required to life full time as women, getting Real Life Experience (RLE), they begin to realize that being a woman has costs and consequences they are unwilling to accept, and begin to consider themselves cross-dressers.

Transsexuals often find themselves in conflict with their birth gender at a very young age. Often as young as 3-4 years old, they will often experience persecution at around age 5 or 6 when they are called "Sissy" and are violently attacked as a result of being labeled. In spite of this clear and present danger, the MtF transsexuals still consider themselves to be girls or females. In many cases, once they became aware that they are males and not only cannot avoid becoming men, they become suicidal. Many MtF transsexuals will attempt to kill themselves as they enter puberty. Estimates are that less than half of all transsexuals - left untreated and unsupported, will be dead before they were age 30. For religious, financial, or social reasons, they will try to live as males, even getting married and having children, but in high school, college, and as a parent, the transsexual will usually gravitate toward groups of women.

Girls who quickly identify as tom-boys get similar harassment, but more often, they are more accepted by the boys because they are as physical and not only willing to fight, but often win the fights. Girls who are MtF are more willing to cope with puberty by dressing in baggy masculine clothing, doing other things to be gender ambiguous, but may still wish to have their breasts removed, to get testosterone, and to be "the man" in relationships.

Sexuality is unrelated to gender identity. Transsexuals may prefer same sex partners all the time, or only when they are presenting as the opposite sex.


When the makeup and wig and clothes go on to look as feminine as possible is that the clue they are transgender? Or is it something else?

No. A transvestite only wants to wear the clothes. A cross-dresser wants to present as a woman. A transsexual wants to LIVE as a woman.


I'm just curious as how one decides the difference if there is one.

This has been a problem for the medical profession since the transsexual syndrome was first documented in the late 1950s. Prior to Christine Jorgensen, gender reassignment surgery was more fantasy than even a possibility. The Jorgensen operation would be considered butchery today. Her "operation" was more like castration, her inversion was small, and sensations were gone.

There were Hermaphrodites who clearly showed gender ambiguity, some having organs of both genders, others being neither gender.

One thing they have found is that many, but not all, transsexuals typically seem to have had less testosterone during the first trimester. In December 2012, scientists discovered that many transsexuals had a genetic marker that prevented them from processing testosterone during this period. The actual causes are still unclear. There are easy ways to know if you had low-T during this period - if your index finger is longer than your ring finger, for example. Many transsexuals will also show a much smaller limbic node, making them less inclined to violence. Women also have a smaller limbic node. This may have evolved because women had to nurse and nurture children and being too violent might cause a mother to kill her own young. Female mammals are less likely to fight, but more likely to became extremely violent when cornered and/or protecting her young. Males, on the other hand, routinely compete and "fight" each other for territory and breeding rights.

There seems to be similar patterns with FtM transsexuals. These "trans-men" tend to have indicators of higher testosterone. Many even produce testosterone as they get older, enough to offset their estrogen levels to a certain amount. They also have larger limbic nodes.

Given the extremely high mortality rate of transsexuals, medical practitioners have shifted over the last 40 years from trying to suppress the transsexual urge using electroshock, drugs, and lobotomies, to now considering it UNETHICAL to try and convince a transsexual to accept their birth gender.

[Angela Campbell]

Debbie I think you have part of that wrong. Transvestite and crossdresser are the same thing. Many crossdressers only wear the clothes. trans = from one to another vest = clothing therefore transvestite is crossdresser.


transgender trans = from one to another gender = whether masculine or feminine so transgender is from one gender to the other.

[TGMarla]

I once struggled mightily with questions like this one. I wondered if I was really transexual, and only crossdressing to keep the peace in my head. But as time has gone by, I've come to realize that I'm not transexual, and that although I love "being" a woman, I love it for only a few hours at a time. I've come now to accept that I'm a lot less TG than I thought I was, despite the letters at the front of my screen name. I'm a crossdresser through and through, but I'm not cloudy on my gender status anymore. "Transgender" may be an umbrella term under which I fit as a crossdresser, but it means nothing more than that to me anymore.

[Debra Russell]

:bonk: ... don't know... don't care..tired thinking about it -- just go with it suits me :brolleyes:............................Debra

[Monicamaryjay]

I have wondered about this as well. When I was younger and dressed up, I was really quite confused. As I became older I tried to take on the masculine role to some degree, but I was always very sensitive and women knew this. I did not hide it. I thought that the desires to express femininity were latent bisexual feelings, which I did come to admit and accept...but that wasn't and isn't the whole story.

I was not ready for the "transgender" term when I began crossdressing much frequently several months ago.
I have come to understand my inner being and now I welcome my female side. Now I can say, Yes, I am transgendered... It feels good just to let it out.
I do prefer to express myself as a woman, although I do not want to augment my body or take hormones. I like my body the way it is.

It would be such a wonderful thing to feel free enough to express ourselves en femme openly anytime, anywhere.
I am looking forward to the summer and a trip to the big city for adventure and maybe a little crossdressing stroll.
Monica

[ElisabethK]

I feel as if I'm personally in some nebulous space between the two, because when I dress, I don't necessarily feel like a man in women's clothes. However, I am male 95 percent of the time, and that remaining five percent when I dress I'm doing so in private, but it does feel like I am expressing a feminine part of me.

[Ressie]

I'm rather old skool and when I first discovered why I dress the only words I found were transvestite and transexual. I feel mostly a TV, yet once in a while TS. So being labeled TG is OK I guess. I was sitting in a chair wearing a skirt and heels today thinking something between my legs was in the way. Maybe the pink fog has just been extra thick lately...

[MsKimiko]

i consider myself a crossdresser.. however since i emulate everything feminine when dressed transvestite may explain it better.. im not sure...

[Kate Simmons]

Hi Marleena, Being who I am as a full spectrum person doesn't change. How I choose to look and express myself is my choice at any given time.:)

[Nicole Brown]

Here is a graphic which I believe spells out the relationship of one term to another. My understanding has always been that transgendered is an umbrella term.

[DeeInGeorgia]

Transgender is an umbrella term for a characteristic, but the person must self identify to be, for example, a gay man that dresses in a feminine manner is showing transgender traits, but he identifies as gay and not as transgender. Some drag queens or kings again have transgender traits, but because it is an act, do not identify as transgender.

[Jessica86]

I don't mind being called transgendered. I will be the first one to say I am transgendered. In my eyes, we all are. Some don't like being called that, but I don't know why. I still don't like when I have to explain when my wife finds panties in the room and says "Some other woman been here?" "Umm, I guess you could say that......"

[AllieSF]

Dee, I believe that a gay person can also be transgendered, e.g. a gay male that crossdresses as a female. He is still gay and falls under the all encompassing transgender umbrella as a crossdresser. Gender identification and sexual partner selection are two different concepts. A fireman can be a sportsman, a part time cop, a volunteer, and so on, and also be gay and/or transgendered at the same time. That is if you buy into the umbrella concept.

[paulaprimo]

I consider myself bigender. I'm not a fan of labels....but if any were to fit me, it would be that one.

i like courtney's term "bigender"...i'm not a big fan of labels either. i'm more than a crossdresser. i love my femme side and love presenting
as a woman. so i would consider myself transgendered :)

[Leah Lynn]

I seriously believe that I'm gender dysphoric, just can't afford to do anything about it.

[Angela Campbell]

Since this started with a question of are you a cd or tg or both I have to give a simplified answer since there are questions on some of the terms. Here goes.

I was born a male. I knew at around the age of 4 that I should have been a girl, I wanted to be a girl. That has never changed. I began dressing in female clothes at that pre school age. I did that ever since. I really did try to live as a male. I tried hard but I do not feel I was ever very good at it. Nothing has really changed since then, now it is 50 years later. I feel like I am stuck in between.

[PretzelGirl]

I identify as transgender but don't like using a lot of labels :)

This is where I am. To the world, we are the last letter in LGBT. One term to encompass all. I feel that when we start trying to break it up, we cause a chasm that will confuse those outside of our little world. But to each their own and we can call ourselves whatever we want. I also think there are some here that need to do a little could searching. They will state they have no gender issues in one thread and then in another say they want to spend time as a woman. Those would be conflicting thoughts in my opinion. We each have to find what is in us on our own, so it may just be a sign of a future realization.

[JadeEmber]

Meh, honestly, I like being inclusive with transgender as it draws people together for the common issues they wish to address.

There is a friction, though. Some would push groups out of transgender, and some don't want to be in it for various reasons. There are arguments for it. Generally, the question is where do fetishists fall.

You can see from the discussions on this board, however, that motivations are highly divergent, and people who claim to fall in one camp later fall into another. So, again, why not support each other?

To answer the question, though, I've never really had a sense of gender being meaningful on an individual level. I thought it was all a bit contrived. Before the brain studies on body integrity syndrome, I just figured it was entirely a social issue and I could do whatever I wanted; maybe brain development inclined people to certain things but just that. Now, obviously, I don't think that anymore, as there's evidence for actual physical dysphoria. However, for me, being male or female didn't mean a lot, although it _was_ convenient to be male (and tall for the same reason) in terms of making it easier to proceed through life. But when it was inconvenient, I just did whatever I wanted. Since I can't be in someone else's head, there's only so much I can say about what they really think, so it's always been hard to determine if I just lack an inclination they possess, or if they were driven entirely by societal expectation.

Also, I might be different than some people. If I didn't look like I do, it's possible I might think differently, but I don't try to pass. In fact, I often have a beard. I think the conflict of expectation is part of it. Perhaps I have some issue with authority :P

[DebbieL]

Debbie I think you have part of that wrong. Transvestite and crossdresser are the same thing. Many crossdressers only wear the clothes. trans = from one to another vest = clothing therefore transvestite is crossdresser.

Transvestite vs Cross-dresser is really splitting the fine lines.

Cross-dressers typically make the effort to present as a woman, usually including wig and make-up, and usually for extended periods of time.

Transvestites typically focus on the minimum effort needed for arousal, and only for as long as necessary for sexual gratification.

The the link below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestism

That doesn't mean that cross-dressers don't experience sexual pleasure, and doesn't mean that transvestites might have additional emotional desires in addition to sexual satisfaction.


transgender trans = from one to another gender = whether masculine or feminine so transgender is from one gender to the other.

Yes, Transgender has, almost since it's first use referred to the broadest umbrella spectrum, ranging from the fetish dresser to the transsexual. See the umbrella diagram elsewhere in this thread.

Many cross-dressers would be offended if you called them transvestites.

Personally, I consider myself a transsexual - If you could wave the magic wand and turn me into a pretty young woman - for the rest of my life, I'd say a big YES!!!

Unfortunately, puberty really messed that up. I'm 6 foot tall, have a bass voice down to C two octaves below middle C, and above Middle C is a challenge, even in falsetto. I also had asthma as a kid, which gave me an abnormally large rib cage, so even when I had a tiny 28 inch waist at 6 foot tall, the ribs bang against my hips when I try to do simple ballet stretches.

I can pass, but only for a limited time.
As a teen, I tried to kill myself about 50 times - about every other week. See my book for more info on that.

[whowhatwhen]

Personally I'd go for transgender since I don't actually crossdress, being TG has been 99% mental for me so clothes don't really affect anything either way.
I don't view myself as a man either, the question remaining is can I continue living as one?

I'd say keep it inclusive though, strength in numbers and all that.
Infighting only makes it easier for bigots to tear us apart, knock us down, and deny us of our rights and dignity as human beings.

[Frédérique]

There have been a few threads recently where CDers adamantly refuse to be thought of as transgender. So at what point can we call a CDer transgender if ever? I'm just curious as how one decides the difference if there is one. Is it a personal choice?

Sounds like you’re calling me out…:waiting:

I came across a useful definition about transgender some time ago, either here or in some treatise on the subject, and I use it as a yardstick – a transgendered person lives their life as the other gender (not their birth gender) 24/7, effectively being the other gender in lieu of SRS. In our case, a male by birth would wish to BE a woman all the time, to a certain degree, short of surgery. You may be transsexual, without the resources or willingness to have SRS, so you live your life as a TG. In my opinion, unless you’re going around dressed as a woman all the time, and expressing this fact to all, come what may, you cannot accurately be called transgendered. Someone who dresses up occasionally (like me, for instance) has little in common with truly transgendered individuals, although we are two types of MtF crossdressers…

To reference the other thread about one’s sex organs, it all depends on how you feel about your genitals. If you like your male “equipment,” yet crossdress, I don’t see how you can possibly be TG at anytime in your CD career. On the other hand, if you have poor relations with what’s between your legs, and you feel something is completely wrong about your gender, you are a candidate for TG or beyond. I cannot ignore my birth gender, period. It has defined me, it has continued to define me, and it will always define me, while others have issues with their gender identity. I understand this as well as I can, but I wish some TG people would recognize that a few of us MtF crossdressers are not TG, and never will be TG, for reasons I have already alluded to…

I never really heard too much about transgender until I came to CD sites like this one. I’ve argued (discussed) at length about how TG does not accurately describe every type of crossdresser. I once read someone’s dogmatic comment that crossdressing, regardless of its origins, intent, or purpose, is a transgendered act. In my case, crossdressing better describes my “act,” since I cross from one gender to another, via clothing, play with it for a bit, and then revert to my birth gender – since no permanent transformation or transmutation took place, nor was intended, it would be an insult to all TG individuals to call what I do (or did) a "transgendered act." Now, if I dressed up and stayed dressed up, deciding once and for all never to go back from whence I came, I would then be approaching what some call transgender…

You may be TG and have to present yourself as your birth gender for expediency, but I assume that the heart and soul of a transgendered person is always opposite their birth gender. I don’t do that, and I don’t want to do that, so it would be wrong to label me transgendered…
:straightface:

[Ressie]

Transvestite vs Cross-dresser is really splitting the fine lines.

Cross-dressers typically make the effort to present as a woman, usually including wig and make-up, and usually for extended periods of time.

Transvestites typically focus on the minimum effort needed for arousal, and only for as long as necessary for sexual gratification.

The the link below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transvestism

That doesn't mean that cross-dressers don't experience sexual pleasure, and doesn't mean that transvestites might have additional emotional desires in addition to sexual satisfaction.

Yes, Transgender has, almost since it's first use referred to the broadest umbrella spectrum, ranging from the fetish dresser to the transsexual. See the umbrella diagram elsewhere in this thread.

Many cross-dressers would be offended if you called them transvestites.

OK, so in the '70s a group of transvestites didn't like that word and wanted to be called cross dressers instead. Isn't this just semantics? That must be around the same time homosexuals wanted another definition of gay. Language keeps changing which makes this confusing at first. Were cross dressers offended being called transvestites in the '50s and '60s? I don't remember anyone using either expression back then.

Most cross dressers had sexual arousal at the beginning but later on don't want that association. So transgender is now less offensive than cross dresser? Maybe we're all a little bit of each category in varied degrees. Heck, I wanted to be a girl in 1970, but didn't really feel trapped in the wrong body.

[ambigendrous]

that's why I really like my "nom de plume" as it were: ambigendrous! All the labels are so "limiting" - trying to put everybody into neat little cubbyholes. But in reality we don't always fit into neat little cubbyholes. For me, I enjoy being male, and being masculine; but I also enjoy showing some femininity. I don't try to "pass" but I enjoy looking nice. Right now, for instance I'm wearing a 38A bra (that I almost fill out naturally!) a nice camisole, and a sweatshirt. Below the waist I've got panties that match the bra, pantyhose, and blue jeans. On my feet are a pair of knee-high boots with 3" stiletto heels. I'm not trying to be female, but I do feel feminine - other than the boots nobody could tell what I'm wearing under the jeans and sweatshirt, but I comfortable.

"Trans"- anything implies (to me) attempting to be a polar opposite, which in turn implies a digital environment: you're either one or the other. In reality we are in an analog world. Each of us is somewhere along a continuum - and that continuum is more of a 3-D sphere than a scalar line. If our world were truly digital then we could identify the scalar line as having "Masculine" at one end and "Feminine" at the other end and place ourselves somewhere between the two extremes - nothing to it. Psychologists have been trying to do that for ages. But there is no line, and certainly no ends to the line - we can only attempt to place ourselves in a 3-dimensional sphere that is constantly changing - no beginning or end; just some nebulous position somewhere in the whole.

That's why it's so hard to "cubbyhole" us - each of us has our own definition for each cubbyhole, and that definition is constantly changing, and we are constantly changing as well - best we can do is try to be comfortable with who we are, and just try to be true to ourselves.

[Lorileah]

Has it been three months already? Isn't that the time limit on when the label question comes out? Ok let's see what am I? Um..human I think we can agree on that especially with DNA testing now. Um...transgender, by definition. um, a cross dresser at least at some point in my life. TS, because I am even without spending thousands of dollars. I've been a pauper a puppet a pirate a poet a pawn and a king. I've been up and down and over and out but I know one thing...that's life.

[Megan72]

In all seriousness, if either term is the worst I get called then it's a pretty good day...M

[Ceri Anne]

I consider myself CD and not Transgender. The reason is I am perfectly comfortable expressing male or female. Trans Gender in my understanding feel as if they are female in a male body. I'm just expressing the different sides of my personality. Maybe we need the term bi gender

[ReineD]

Sounds like you’re calling me out…:waiting:

I came across a useful definition about transgender some time ago, either here or in some treatise on the subject, and I use it as a yardstick – a transgendered person lives their life as the other gender (not their birth gender) 24/7, effectively being the other gender in lieu of SRS. In our case, a male by birth would wish to BE a woman all the time, to a certain degree, short of surgery. You may be transsexual, without the resources or willingness to have SRS, so you live your life as a TG.

You are confusing the term "transgender" for "transsexual". A MtF trans-sexual is someone who wants to live full time (with legal name change) as the opposite than birth sex, which is a female. If she has SRS, she is a post-op TS. If she is waiting to have SRS, she is pre-op, and if she cannot have SRS for a variety of reasons, she is non-op, but still very much a transwoman. "Transwoman" is a preferred term for MtF Transsexual. "Transman" is a preferred term for FtM Transsexual.

"Transgender" is an umbrella term, see the diagram in post #30. The media confuses things by using the term "transgender" when telling stories about transsexuals because they don't want to use a word that has "sex" in it especially when reporting on children.

In academic studies, people with gender dysphoria sufficient to seek treatment and transition to full time are referred to as "transsexual", while birth males who dress up as women and who have no intention of hormonally or surgically altering their sex are referred to as "transvestite", even if they dress frequently. Transvestite is also a popular term used overseas and is interchangeable with crossdresser. Cross (trans) - Dresser (vestite)



Fetish dressers and transvestites tend to dress primarily for sexual pleasure.

No. Please see the paragraph above. There are fetish cross(trans)-dressers(vestites), and there are non-fetish cross(trans)/dressers(vestites).

[JadeEmber]

that's why I really like my "nom de plume" as it were: ambigendrous! All the labels are so "limiting" - trying to put everybody into neat little cubbyholes. But in reality we don't always fit into neat little cubbyholes. For me, I enjoy being male, and being masculine; but I also enjoy showing some femininity. I don't try to "pass" but I enjoy looking nice. Right now, for instance I'm wearing a 38A bra (that I almost fill out naturally!) a nice camisole, and a sweatshirt. Below the waist I've got panties that match the bra, pantyhose, and blue jeans. On my feet are a pair of knee-high boots with 3" stiletto heels. I'm not trying to be female, but I do feel feminine - other than the boots nobody could tell what I'm wearing under the jeans and sweatshirt, but I comfortable.

"Trans"- anything implies (to me) attempting to be a polar opposite, which in turn implies a digital environment: you're either one or the other. In reality we are in an analog world. Each of us is somewhere along a continuum - and that continuum is more of a 3-D sphere than a scalar line. If our world were truly digital then we could identify the scalar line as having "Masculine" at one end and "Feminine" at the other end and place ourselves somewhere between the two extremes - nothing to it. Psychologists have been trying to do that for ages. But there is no line, and certainly no ends to the line - we can only attempt to place ourselves in a 3-dimensional sphere that is constantly changing - no beginning or end; just some nebulous position somewhere in the whole.

That's why it's so hard to "cubbyhole" us - each of us has our own definition for each cubbyhole, and that definition is constantly changing, and we are constantly changing as well - best we can do is try to be comfortable with who we are, and just try to be true to ourselves.

Strictly speaking, the latin root trans means across/beyond/or opposite, depending on the context. The general usage is beyond or opposite gender when transgender is used. So, a transgender person is a person of different gender (male, female, both, neither) than their assigned birth gender. That's a common definition. The key is, it's not just a flipped, but also both or neither. Otherwise, there are people missed. One is either cisgender or transgender.

Now, the question is, does crossdressing imply at least some part of the opposite gender? What both or neither means is a point of long discussion. However, I think saying that one is cisgender or not is simple enough, as far as I'm concerned.

[Lorileah]

You are confusing the term "transgender" for "transsexual". A MtF trans-sexual is someone who wants to live full time (with legal name change) as the opposite than birth sex, which is a female. If she has SRS, she is a post-op TS. If she is waiting to have SRS, she is pre-op, and if she cannot have SRS for a variety of reasons, she is non-op, but still very much a transwoman. "Transwoman" is a preferred term for MtF Transsexual. "Transman" is a preferred term for FtM Transsexual.


You ain't gonna win that fight against Freddy. Been there and have the scars to prove it.

This, as I said before, comes up so often I think we need to just cut and paste. We use labels to communicate certain things. In my profession we use Latin because it is a dead language and is not changing anymore. It is set in stone literally. Most here have settled on the word "transgender" to be an umbrella term as has been stated before. Some here cannot get that point and they will fight you until death and bring in citations from obscure places to prove it When a person gets it set in their mind that a certain term is one thing they will not be swayed. Even if you give them proof or citations or tablets from the mountain. But it makes it hard to communicate in a cohesive manner. You say tomato, I say Tomahto. It is often the reason so many threads here go south.

I get it when someone outside the community misuses a term. When I say I am transgender they ask when I am having surgery. Most listen to the explanation but some don't get it. I can see the point, they are NOT from the community. I don't speak electrical engineer either. We have a confusing lifestyle. It is so confusing that even here we do not agree. For instance. I say I am a non-op non-hormone transsexual because I feel I was born in the wrong vessel. Other TS's here tell me I am a wannabe. So if we cannot even work within the community, how in the hell can we work with the outside world?

This horse is not only dead it is decomposed.

[ReineD]

This, as I said before, comes up so often I think we need to just cut and paste.

Blame it on our in-house rabble-rouser, Marleena. She started it! LOL :D

But seriously, I think these discussions are worthwhile, if only for people who have joined the board since the last discussion. Also, people's opinions do change over time and I wouldn't be surprised to see Freddy slowly come to expand her (his) views a little, even if it takes a few more discussions. :)

[MaryAnn40c]

I do know a lot of GG's who do not wear makeup or a dress...I feel that if you wear women clothes(jeans,bra,nylons ect) you are transgender. If you wear women clothing at the house and dont go out then you are CD.....both are perfect people in my books.

[prene]

I am not sure if the term matters.
But I am trying to understand myself ... I am definately a cder with lots of transgender in me.

[ReineD]

It's just amazing how there are so many twists on so few words, and all depending on a person's personal experience. :)

Thank goodness that in any other topic than gender, people have pretty much the same understanding of word meanings, else communication would be chaotic! Imagine a mother whose child has ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) REFUSING to use that label for her ADHD child because she doesn't believe he is hyperactive nor does she like the term "disorder", so she tells the new teacher that her child has ICA (insufficient concentration affliction), and she expects the teacher to know what that is and to treat her child accordingly. :D

[Joanie_Shakti]

I'm a lumberjack - ok?

:D

[max]

Transgender, though still trying to figure out what exactly that means to me.

I think the tipping point for that identification was when I came across this set of questions:


1. If I had a magic button that you could press that would make you wake up tomorrow as a girl, with everyone else understanding you and relating to you as a girl, irrevocably but painlessly, would you press it?

2. Alternatively, if I had a magic button that you could press that would make you wake up tomorrow still as a guy, but without any of the gender issues you've been having, not questioning your gender, and able to live happily as a guy with zero dysphoria, would you press it?

3. If I had both of those buttons, which one would you rather press, all other things being equal?

4. If I had a test that could tell you if you were a guy or a girl, which answer would you be hoping for as you took it? Which way would you try to skew your answers, if you did (consciously or not) try to skew them in either direction?

5. If you washed up on a desert island, by yourself, but with any amount of both male and female clothing, with no hope of rescue but otherwise everything that you needed for a relatively healthy and happy life, would you choose to present as male? female? neither? a mix of the two? one way some of the time, the other way the rest? If for some bizarre reason a lifetime supply of hormones washed up with you as well, do you think you'd take them? What if you washed up with the button from the first thought experiment - in a situation where you were by yourself, would you press it?

6. Let's say I had a test that asked about all of the things, very thorough, and at the end it would tell you, with 100% accuracy, whether or not you were trans. So you take it, and it tells you, "Well, you've got some mild gender confusion, but you're definitely not trans, and you shouldn't transition." How would that make you feel?

7. On the other hand, what if the test told you "Yup, you're definitely trans all right, and you should probably start planning your transition." - how would you feel about that?

and felt in my gut the answer to #2 was no because I would feel like I was losing part of my identity.

[Marilyn Beck]

Ok let's see what am I? Um..human I think we can agree on that especially with DNA testing now.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. But I think your broad-brush use of the label "human" is quite offensive to the alien-from-outer-space members of this forum.

[denese013]

After 40+ years of being myself,I consider myself as a TS=Trend Setter

[AmyGaleRT]

I am certainly a crossdresser. I consider myself to be outwardly expressing the feminine part of my soul, the part I have named "Amy," while I'm dressed, so I will also accept the "transgender" descriptor.

I like the Native American term, too..."two-spirited." That seems to describe what I feel.

- Amy

[Marleena]

I'd say keep it inclusive though, strength in numbers and all that.
Infighting only makes it easier for bigots to tear us apart, knock us down, and deny us of our rights and dignity as human beings.

Good point!

This discussion has been a good one for sure. Everybody is having their say and it is evident some don't want to be under the TG umbrella or be called TG. Nothing wrong with that either. All MTF's being placed under the umbrella is helping all of us in the battle for acceptance and human rights. That's why I see no harm in all of us being called transgender. BUT I will never bring this topic up again.

[Joanne f]

It was not until I answered GinaX's " How do you think" that I really had a think about it , so what did I come up with , well I do not think that I am a CD ( just not dedicated enough for that ) so that leaves Tg, then I thought , (which is hard for me to do ) "what does that mean", that I have the thoughts/ways of both genders, then trying to activate my little brain again, I thought what does that mean as a GG can have all the thoughts and ways that I have and be a normal GG after all they can do most things theses days that a man can do , so you have to dig deeper and I came up with the idea that I am TG simply because I think or have the brain of a female (although thinking that I have a brain might be going a bit to far):D which has to try and match a male body as I don't see that you can do it the other way around , male body trying to match a female brain for what ever I do body wise I think " well a female can also do this" .so I am no different in that way, it is not as simple as having to dual thinking brain but more of a brain versus a body issue and trying to balance it that way .
If you think that is confusing try being in my shoes (high of flats):heehee:
Now what was the question , Oh I know , I think I might be TG as I definably do not think like a male ( well an Alfa male) but then how would I know how one of those thinks :doh:

[Sophie_C]

Ok, so for me, this is easy, since I have known I've been transgendered FOREVER. And, in fact, I don't really get anything sexual from dressing. I don't really even "need" to dress like many people here. However, I do have what is, very much, a feminine nature to myself, which I've always had to suppress (since a young age, I remember this), and I really wish I didn't have to. Maybe one day I'll give in. Who knows?

In terms of the terms I agree with the OP... however, it's worth saying that everyone has to start somewhere and people can get confused along the way. I'm certain that some people who are transgender think they're just crossdressers for a period of time, and hell, some people may tell themselves that their whole lives. I don't think many crossdressers wrongly transition due to the SOC and sheer stats from those who have. If anything, transitioning is one of the most successful "treatments" in the world.

Of course, one's gender is independent from a sexual fetish, but if someone really doesn't know themselves all that well, they may not be able to distinguish between the two. I also believe sometimes that severely repressed transgender people may use crossdressing as a "coping mechanism" to basically ward off their own nature as long as possible.

We must remember to be empathetic about that and not "elitist" just because a flower hasn't bloomed yet, or can't bloom, since it's been blocked of sunlight. Likewise, we shouldn't demonize crossdressers. Everyone's got the right to live their life and fulfill all of their desires, provided it doesn't harm anyone else. I've changed a bit, and while in principle, I do hate the joke drag queens make of the entire trans community, but now I can't blame the girls (many who are transgender themselves) trying to make a living. After all, a huge percentage of people who transition face extreme prejudice, and unless doing it at a very young age, can't even get a regular job.

Let's keep the distinction, but also be positive about it. I've always the best thing for most of us is to just accept and "own up" to "being a tranny" unless we've taken some extreme measure, so let's just do it and live our lives. :)

[Fiona K]

It's a classic case of nations devided by a common language, on this side of the pond the term Transgender describes anyone on a spectrum, not just one definition.
This may help: I found this definition of the trans-umbrella on the Scottish Transgender Alliance website. Better than many I've seen....

http://www.scottishtrans.org/Transgender_Umbrella.aspx

[Cheryl T]

Since the clothing is not the reason I dress and the emotional comfort and well being is I would have to call myself Transgendered.
It's so much more than just putting on something the world deems feminine. I'm sure at the beginning that's what it was, but it allowed me to find myself and realize there is so much more to me. I've always felt I was more female than male, just never sure how much more. Still searching for that answer.

[Rianna Humble]

I’ve argued (discussed) at length about how TG does not accurately describe every type of crossdresser. I once read someone’s dogmatic comment that crossdressing, regardless of its origins, intent, or purpose, is a transgendered act. In my case, crossdressing better describes my “act,” since I cross from one gender to another, via clothing, play with it for a bit, and then revert to my birth gender – since no permanent transformation or transmutation took place, nor was intended,

If we accept your definition that trans-something implies transformation or transmutation, could you tell me in what way transatlantic flights or sea-crossings transform or mutate the Atlantic?

On the other hand, if we accept the dictionary definition of trans as being a Latin prefix meaning to "cross" then we can see that neither Transatlantic nor Transgender define a permanent change to the state of something. Rather they define an often impermanent crossing from one thing to another (transatlantic from one side of the Atlantic to the other and Transgender from one gender expression to another).


I assume that the heart and soul of a transgendered person is always opposite their birth gender.

We all know the saying about assume.

As a transsexual I fall into the spectrum spectrum of transgender individuals, but I can easily debunk your assumption (since you include the word "always"). My gender now is as it was at birth since my transsexuality began when I was in the womb. On the other hand, my sex at birth did not conform to my gender.

[mariehart]

The label thing, it matters to some not so much to others. The simple thing that unites us is the fact that we were all born male and at it simplest we dress in women's clothes. (I'm ignoring FtM in this case).

The motivation for doing so varies clearly. Just as well no one introduced sexuality.:eek: Gay, bi, straight. There's another complication.

It's not that important to me. When I started dressing as a girl. I came across the term transvestite. So I went with that. Later I met up with a social group of transvestites. It was here that I noticed there were differences. Many were essentially men, often married, who dressed as women and enjoyed it. Then there were others. One of the latter rather tartly referred to the former as a 'Man's club where they happened to dress in women's clothes.'

I was one of the others. But we all got on fine. It was through this that I met my first TS. She seemed rather sad. I couldn't see myself like that.

So I stuck with the TV thing and only gradually over the years would admit to myself that actually there was more to it.

Now I'm quite comfortable with the fact of who I am. Not always happy about it. Externally I'm male, internally, in my mind. I'm female. Many of my mannerisms and behaviour are female and this is often obvious to others but I can't tell.

I rarely dress fully as a woman anymore. But I often partially dress in an ambigious way which I think gives me licence to relax and stop pretending.

So what's my label? Actually I don't care. You can define me any way you want. I know who I am, finally.

[Erica Marie]

Could we maybe use the term "androgynous" either we are not sure or we are comfortable in both roles or modes if you want to say. When I am in male mode I am comfortable with myself, I dont feel out of place. When I am dressed enfemme I am comfortable that way too. I dont feel a strong urge to have to live out any specific role. Maybe I am forced by society and the norms set forth to play certain roles at certain times. Maybe Im just confused????

[Jennifer in CO]

OK ok...my 5 cents....

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman, you are a woman. If you were born a man, your TS.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man dressed like a woman, your a cross-dresser.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man dressed like a woman and it turns you on, your a transvestite.

conversely,

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman dressed like a man and it turns you on, your a transvestite.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman dressed like a man, your a cross-dresser.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man, you are a man. If you were born a woman, your TS.

single definition of androgynous -
purposely presenting as a mix of both sexes to screw with the minds of the general public who's sole purpose in life is to put all individuals into a single-sexed box of either male or female and they cant do it with you....

hows them apples....

Jenn

[Fiona K]

OK ok...my 5 cents....

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman, you are a woman. If you were born a man, your TS.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man dressed like a woman, your a cross-dresser.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man dressed like a woman and it turns you on, your a transvestite.

conversely,

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman dressed like a man and it turns you on, your a transvestite.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a woman dressed like a man, your a cross-dresser.

if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and see a man, you are a man. If you were born a woman, your TS.

single definition of androgynous -
purposely presenting as a mix of both sexes to screw with the minds of the general public who's sole purpose in life is to put all individuals into a single-sexed box of either male or female and they cant do it with you....

hows them apples....

Jenn

We'll have to agree to disagree, I and my friends identify as Transvestites, I can assure you there is no sexual motive in who and what we are. To assume otherwise is 1950s psychology, somewhat insulting and beyond which most European therapists (at least) have progressed.
Remember the term "Crosdresser" is simply English for the Latin term, Transvestite. Over here it's the same thing.

[DebbieL]

This is where I am. To the world, we are the last letter in LGBT. One term to encompass all.

This really is the critical point. For legal purposes, transgender covers the broadest spectrum, from the under-dresser to the pre-SRS transsexual to the post-SRS transsexual. One of the key concepts is that anyone who is transgendered and performing well should not be harassed by supervisors, coworkers, or subordinates in the workplace. The same is true for someone who is either actually OR PERCEIVED as lesbian or gay. Bisexuals is probably the largest of all the LGBT groups, but also more "in the closet". Transgenders are the hardest group to identify because, when taken in the broad spectrum, they may be the largest, but also the most "stealthy" group.


I feel that when we start trying to break it up, we cause a chasm that will confuse those outside of our little world.

When we break out the various distinctions, it's largely to help distinguish the groups INCLUDED. Transgender INCLUDES transvestites, cross-dressers, non-op transsexuals, pre-op transsexuals in transition, and post-op transsexuals. Laws protecting the rights of LGBT normally protect us all against discrimination and sexual harassment in the workplace, school, and businesses. Many hate crimes laws such as the Matthew Shepard law provide for stiffer penalties for crimes against those who are any of LGBT.


But to each their own and we can call ourselves whatever we want.

For legal purposes, both our self-identification AND perception of others is protected. For example, even someone who has no desire to transition and no desire for same sex partners - but is PERCEIVED to be transgendered or homosexual could be protected if it becomes clear that they are being harassed or threatened because of the actual or perceived status.


I also think there are some here that need to do a little could searching.

Many of us struggle most of our lives trying to understand where we fit on the spectrum of transgender. As children, we may get called "Sissy", which makes us a target for real physical violence, and we go into "Stealth mode". We may struggle to avoid being caught by parents, siblings, playmates, or anyone else who may have expressed a negative opinion toward anyone in the LGBT spectrum.

Many of us keep our secret for years, even keeping the secret from spouses and children.

When we DO come out, we often struggle which how much we want to own. We may even struggle with fantasy vs reality. For example, we may have the fantasy of being women on a 24/7 basis, but the reality of having to wear heels, wig, make-up, and maintain a nice feminine figure tends to be a lot more work than we had in our fantasy.

In some cases, when we do finally disclose, we will try to do damage control. For example; I told my first wife I was just a transvestite, but I knew that in my mind I was transsexual.

Some of us really don't know what we are. Others are more practical and pragmatic about who they are. Others know what they are.

There are a few gender identity tests that suggest many different scenarios. For example, if a magical being told you that you could be turned into a girl full time, part time, or at will, which would you choose? By taking away the complications of transition and being assured of a completely successful outcome, the test helps to identify one's "core" identity.

Another question suggests "If you won the lottery and knew your finances would be taken care of - would you transition?". This removes the financial barrier, but leaves the actual transition process on the table. Many who are core transsexuals would not be willing to go through the pain and duration of transition - perhaps because they have too much invested in being a man.

Another question suggests "If you knew that you could not lose your job while in transition, would you transition?". This leaves the financial obligation in place, the transition process in place, and the transition time in place, but takes the risks of job loss off the table. Others questions take the risk of loss of wives and children off the table.


They will state they have no gender issues in one thread and then in another say they want to spend time as a woman.

Again, there are factors that distinguish one's core identity vs what might be practical. One might be fully transsexual in mind/spirit and desperately want to transition, but are blocked by factors such as:
1 - Likelihood of a positive outcome - if you are over 6 foot tall, have hair everywhere, and have a deep bass voice - it might be very difficult to pass, no matter how much surgery and hormones are taken.
2 - Potential loss of family - many teen transsexuals fear that if one or both of their parents knew - they would be kicked out of the house. Many transsexuals do end up in the street.
3 - Potential loss of security - many transsexuals fear loss of job, home, and/or alimony or child support that would leave them destitute, even if they were gainfully employed.
4 - Potential loss of love - many transsexuals experience the loss of love of a wife or girl-friend.
5 - Medical persecution - Until recently, psychologists and psychiatrists were split on whether to support transition or to try and encourage acceptance of birth gender.
6 - Medical torture - in the 1950s and 1960s, psychiatrists often used electroshock - without anesthesia - to try and "shut down" the "unnatural desires" - when that didn't work lobotomy was next.
7 - Physical Abuse - violence against transsexuals starts very young and as a result, can force them into "deep stealth mode".
If you know you are going to be physically beaten, cut, bruised, terrorized, even tortured - by playmates, siblings, and/or parents, stealth becomes a matter of survival.
8 - Sexual abuse - Many have the "Sissy Fantasy" of being raped or forced to transition by a woman, but the fear of being raped or sexually abused by a man is a real nightmare.
9 - Disappointing presentation outcome - Many transsexuals fear that even after hormones and SRS, they will still look like "a guy in a dress".
10 - Disappointing sexual outcome - until around 1990, SRS created a cosmetic appearance of a woman, but the ability to have sexual orgasm was gone or limited.
11 - Pain of the transition process - electrolysis, laser, and post-op dilation can all be very painful. In many cases, it can be hours of painful sessions to be repeated over time.
12 - Cost of the transition process - all aspects of transition can cost anywhere from $50,000 to $250,000 depending on what is done and where it is done.

Many transgenders struggle with all of the issues above and it is only when they have confronted and dealt with those issues that they begin to really be able to freely choose whether or not to transition.
Even


Those would be conflicting thoughts in my opinion.

For most transgenders, conflicting thoughts are a way of life. Often, there is a struggle within between the desire to survive and the desire to be honest.
On the back of the AA Anniversary Medallion is a saying "To thine own self be true" - yet for the transgender, this seems like an impossible request.
Many are terrified to tell even their closest intimate partner, their wife or girl-friend, for fear of losing them. They can't even bring themselves to tell prospects.

For myself, as a transsexual - I found it hard to accept love, acknowledgement, or public recognition - because I would think "Yes, but I can't be myself (Debbie) with you".
When my parents would give me praise, I would think "Yes, but you won't accept ME (Debbie)".
Even when I was being complimented by a lover, there was always the fear, or knowledge that they couldn't or wouldn't accept ME.

In my case, I coped by becoming a clown. In fact, at Halloween, I wanted to go as a princess or even just as a pretty school-girl or beautiful woman, but I would end up going as "Freddy The Freeloader" - or similar Hobo/Clown character. One year I wanted to go as Genie from I Dream of Genie - but settle for being the King of Siam - so I could wear the silks and satins, but had to be a boy.
Another year I went as a matador, again because I wanted to be a girl, but mom suggested something more like "Blue Boy" instead.


We each have to find what is in us on our own, so it may just be a sign of a future realization.

One of the great things about sites like this is that we don't have to do it alone. The various groups and related resources help us to communicate with each other, to share common experience.
I searched for 30 years before I finally connected with Virginia (Of Tri-ESS) on a usenet newsgroup. I had tried to find information on transsexualism in public libraries (waste of time back then), in book stores (also a waste), and even in adult bookstores ( more fantasy than reality). I met a few drag queens (slightly different conversation since I still preferred girls). When I tried to talk to my parents, doctors, psychologists, and social workers about being transgendered, I was shut down immediately. They were literally NOT ALLOWED to have those conversations with me, because in Colorado, in the 1960s and 1970s, it was ILLEGAL to be transgendered. The "Treatment" was usually electro-shock or lobotomy. They hoped that NOT talking about it would keep me out of the Pueblo facility (State psychiatric hospital). The great irony is that across the border, in Trinidad New Mexico, they were performing some of the first SRS procedures in the USA.

[stephNE]

OK, I'll put in two more cents. The labels are interesting, though I think they can probably be interpreted differently by different people. I am a man, 100% hetero, but enjoy dressing and presenting as a woman. I do this for a variety of reasons, including I feel there is a certain amount of femininty in me (inner woman) that I need to express, and when doing so, I feel so much more comfortable and relaxed than I do when in guy-mode. It isn't a sexually related thing.
So am I a:
CD? - yes because I do crossdress,
Transgender? - also yes, because at times, I present and "live" in both girl and guy modes
but trasvestite, or fetish? -no.

[Beverley Sims]

Too much deep thinking here.
It confuses the hell out of me.

[Kate Simmons]

Thought about this a little more. I've been called a lot of things in my time, not all good. :heehee:Call me what you will, but never, ever call me late for dinner. Carry on.:battingeyelashes::)

[becky77]

Well before I joined this forum I would have said I was a Crossdresser. But I now realise that we are at different levels and different needs. For example I know that we have a lot of crossdressers on here that do just that really, crossdress, like to put on women's clothing for whatever reasons and thats it, many don't even want wigs or makeup etc, I recognise this is also where some who like to CD for fetish also sit.
Then there is the next bracket that wish to take it further, the image they present must be as convincing as possible and most likely they have issues of varying degrees about there identity, this is possibly the most diverse bracket with the most confusion (I belong here).
The last bracket is obviously Transexual.
Now bracket 1, they are usually pretty secure in what they are and are often the first to question the various sexuality posts etc. They can't understand why we want to take it further, why we need to leave the closet and tell people, why we might want to brave the public.
And bracket 3, they also know exactly where they stand, they want to do whatever it takes to be the woman they feel inside, or reach a level they are comfortable with.
It's us poor folks in bracket 2 that probably write most of the threads and are wanting to know where we are going and what it all means. Unfortunately we are all on different stages of the same path, some still very much like their masculine side and others are near to and may yet go on to transition, the rest are somewhere inbetween.
So if your bracket 1 it's pretty easy to say I am a crossdresser, simple. Bracket 3 the Transexuals your sorted. Everyone else? I'm stuffed if I know so the umbrella of Transgendered seems to do the job?

I would just like to say I am in no way trying to categorise anyone, I was just oversimplifying the message to get to my point, if anyone takes offense it wasn't intended.

[Lorileah]

That's why I see no harm in all of us being called transgender. BUT I will never bring this topic up again. Oh sure NOW you see the light :facepalm:


Could we maybe use the term "androgynous" Not really. It means blending male and female characteristics into a non-gender being. Since the idea most here have is to appear as females, that would not fit.


OK ok...my 5 cents.... Has anyone tallied the money yet? We may be sitting on a fortune :)


if you wake up in the morning, look in the mirror...

At least we can wake up in the morning.

As far as not wanting to be under an umbrella, that usually works as long as it does not rain. There are many here who don't see any advantage to being under the LGBT umbrella either. Mostly because without realizing it they are reaping the benefits of the L&G communities without having to work very hard at it. (Honestly Bisexuals are not really discriminated against because they don't stand out and can fade away easily). However, recent L&G feelings show that they are not wanting to be associated with the "T" community. This is because as a group the general public see us as perverts and freaks, whereas the L&G's have worked to be assimilated. We are the uncle a the table no one really talks about. BUT, through the umbrella we have gained a lot of rights by association. Me? I like when I can get support from more people. It makes me more secure and lets me see that there are others like me. I like being under the umbrella. It keeps me dry when it rains, shelters me from the feces when it flies, and shades me when things get too hot.

[Ressie]

OK, I think I have it straight now. If I'm home en femme, I'm a crossdresser. If I'm outside en femme and it's raining I'm under the transgender umbrella? lol

[Cassandra Lynn]

My pennies worth...

I've kinda moved away from the TG label of late and prefer to think of myself as simply gender variant, although for general conversation on the various forums i visit i still use the common acronym CD/TG.
I just know for myself that i can't answer those 'what if' questions without categorically saying i wouldn't prefer a 'do-over'.

Like Lorileah says it is difficult enough to explain ourselves to gender binary folks when so many here have issues with terminology.

I do think people are accurate in describing themselves as 'solely' a crossdresser, when they 'solely' dress. It's been years since i've worn only men's clothing, or not worn a bit of make-up. I'm pretty much a mix of both these days.
That's just me tho.

Thanx Rianna for the discussion of prefix use. I'll go one further....
My automobile is my only form of transporation and thus far it has always allowed me to return back to where i left from.

I also find it frustrating that the subject of sexuality gets abused around here so often. I have many friends across the pond and the transvestite label does not imply that they are sexual fetishists.
I can understand how it'd anger our transcontinental sisters to see folks here post these official looking dissertations like we Americans are the final word.

To 'Gump' it..........language is as language does.

I don't get why folks here have to make some disclaimer of their sexual orientation every time this dead horse is drug out either. Or for that matter why they're so phobic of sexuality in any form.

Must we all be asexual to crossdress? or when dressed? Just because we're past that hormonal puberty stage when the clothing was hyper-sexualized doesn't mean we can't feel 'sexy' sometimes.

But please don't ever call me latefordinner, i just can't abide by that.

[Catherine Hopkins]

Transvestite vs Cross-dresser is really splitting the fine lines.

Cross-dressers typically make the effort to present as a woman, usually including wig and make-up, and usually for extended periods of time.

Transvestites typically focus on the minimum effort needed for arousal, and only for as long as necessary for sexual gratification.

It's an even finer line if you consider regional differences. In Europe, those two definitions are exactly reversed, with CD's doing as little as possible for arousal and TV's making the full effort.

Just goes to show how dangerous labels are.

Transgendered certainly has two common usages. The stage between TV/CD and TS, sometimes also referred to as full time or non-op. OR the umbrella term to encompass everyone from the hairy pantie wearer to the post-operative TS.


If we accept your definition that trans-something implies transformation or transmutation, could you tell me in what way transatlantic flights or sea-crossings transform or mutate the Atlantic?

Well it certainly transmutates English ;)

[Jennifer in CO]

[QUOTE=Catherine Hopkins;3068792]It's an even finer line if you consider regional differences. In Europe, those two definitions are exactly reversed, with CD's doing as little as possible for arousal and TV's making the full effort.

Just goes to show how dangerous labels are.QUOTE]

amen Catherine. This has been an interesting and somewhat fun topic, but I'll 2nd whoever said that labels belong on cans

Jenn

[Amanda M]

" A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

[ReineD]

OK, I think I have it straight now. If I'm home en femme, I'm a crossdresser. If I'm outside en femme and it's raining I'm under the transgender umbrella? lol

Oh, and don't forget, if ever you are sexual when dressed, then you are a TRANS-VES-TITE! lol

People in this thread are confusing the term "transvestite" which is a synonym for "crossdresser", with "transvestic fetishism" or "fetish crossdresser". Not all crossdressers/transvestites are fetishistic. :rolleyes:

[Lorileah]

People in this thread are confusing the term "transvestite" which is a synonym for "crossdresser", with "transvestic fetishism" or "fetish crossdresser". Not all crossdressers/transvestites are fetishistic. :rolleyes:

But are not all transvestites from Transylvania?

I need some flash cards.

[Kittie]

I'm pretty sure TG is an umbrella term meant to cover a variety of gender related variance, TG does not equal TS outright and neither cross-dressers nor transvestites are outside of said umbrella, denial sucks - labels suck even more. The original question seems a little invalid to me.

[suchacutie]

There are some boundries in talking about our group:

1) male only and never remotely interested in having anything to do with anything feminine on his person!

2) Full time living as women or wish they were (usually titled transsexuals). This one is pretty easy as well as these members really don't want to be males but are stuck with their bodies.

3) Everybody else: This is where the problem is because those of who lie in between 1) and 2) can and will have any possible combination and permutation of outlooks on their masculine and feminine selves. This can go from wearing a piece of feminine clothing on occasion (for whatever reason) to a transformation that, effectively, makes them part-time transsexuals. I thought the term "transgendered" was used simply as the umbrella term for this category.

Let's face it, we have too many possible permutations to fit within what could be hundreds of "labels". The labels are only useful as simplifications if they work. It seems to me they can't work because there are just too many options!

For me, I feel like I live two lives and they happen to be in two genders. My gendered selves are amazingly NOT similar! My wife even tested this out by asking our opinions on identical topics and found that we did not agree on a number of them. My wife thought this might be the case as I'm really looking at the issues from different perspectives, moreso as Tina begins to understand who she is! Ok...I do like the bigendered term. There are just two of us, but I can see that my situation is NOT the norm.

[DonnaT]

For me, Both.

If there is an unconscious urge to crossdress, something deep withing urging you on, something that will never go away, then that is a result of being transgender.

I have no need to emulate a woman, for I am me, one who has the urge to CD and who, luckily, does not find any shame or guilt in doing so.

EDIT


Since the clothing is not the reason I dress and the emotional comfort and well being is I would have to call myself Transgendered.
Precisely. The clothing satisfies the unconscious urge. If there is another way to satisfy it, I'd like to know.

[whowhatwhen]

Let's all just agree to get drunk and play pingpong.

[Joanie_Shakti]

Oh, and don't forget, if ever you are sexual when dressed, then you are a TRANS-VES-TITE! lol

I thought maybe it was when you change part of your suit and it's too snug. Than your Trans Vest is too Tight.


People in this thread are confusing the term "transvestite" which is a synonym for "crossdresser", with "transvestic fetishism" or "fetish crossdresser". Not all crossdressers/transvestites are fetishistic. :rolleyes:


I'm pretty sure TG is an umbrella term meant to cover a variety of gender related variance, TG does not equal TS outright and neither cross-dressers nor transvestites are outside of said umbrella, denial sucks - labels suck even more. The original question seems a little invalid to me.

I consider myself a transvestite, as that's the first term I learned, and a crossdresser as that means the same thing, just sounds nicer. As Kittie and others mentioned, I feel that these terms are covered under the "transgendered" umbrella. So I am that too.

I think that some here are so adamant about the labels as were are still guys here for the most part, some leaning more towards or accepting their feminine side than others. And some completely embracing the female gender they feel they should have been born as. Those less accepting or in doubts of their masculinity are going to be more upset about the labels transvestite/crossdresser/transgender than others. Just as there is male posturing where the more macho is afraid of being gay, some of us are threatened because of our different than mainstream feelings. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Oh, and I still want to be... a lumberjack!

[whowhatwhen]

Oh, and I still want to be... a lumberjack!

Swinging from tree-to-tree?

[Angela Campbell]

Yes Labels......I got a label maker for Christmas and can't wait to use it. Now line up ladies and get your label!

[STACY B]

Different people use different words to describe the same condition. In other words, you might feel just as compelled to express Marleena, as Jennifer feels compelled to express Jennifer, although Jennifer sees himself as a man (crossdresser) whereas you see yourself as a woman (transsexual). My SO feels equally compelled to be herself yet s/he says s/he is dual-gender or gender non-conforming, which others might mistake to mean "transgender" (somehow a cross between CD and TS :p). So if all three of you feel wonderful and comfortable when you dress, and you all dress at about the same frequency, and not one of you is near suicidal for the way that you live your lives, what's the difference between you?

You'll never get an agreement on the terms since there is no way to measure how "gendered" people feel.

And in terms of pure terminology, even the media gets it mixed up. They use "transgender" when describing transsexual children who will eventually transition, because they don't want to use a word that has "sex" in it.

Edit -
As far as I'm concerned, there are two kinds of people. Those who do not cross ANY gender boundaries in any way because they are NOT interested, and those who do, to widely varying degrees and for multiple reasons. The second group is differentiated from the first by using the term "transgender", even if individuals in this group identify purely as men or women. Within the second group, there are additional terms that people can use to differentiate themselves from one another in terms of intensitiy or degree of gender dysphoria, such as CD, TS, DQ, and a slew of others.



That's Right ,,, No Matter what degree ether you do or you Don't . Period !!

[ReineD]

That's Right ,,, No Matter what degree ether you do or you Don't . Period !!

I can't remember if I mentioned this in this thread or in the other current thread (about sex and gender), but basically I think it all boils down to whether someone does this part-time or full-time, no matter what they call themselves.

And for those who do it full-time, there are two further divisions: some who are content being known as men who are feminine, while others wish to be as stealth as possible with hormones, FFS, legal name change, etc, in order to present to the world who they really feel they are, which are women who unfortunately were born in male bodies.

[Marleena]

I can't remember if I mentioned this in this thread or in the other current thread (about sex and gender), but basically I think it all boils down to whether someone does this part-time or full-time, no matter what they call themselves.

And for those who do it full-time, there are two further divisions: some who are content being known as men who are feminine, while others wish to be as stealth as possible with hormones, FFS, legal name change, etc, in order to present to the world who they really feel they are, which are women who unfortunately were born in male bodies.

Is everyone totally confused yet?:D

[ReineD]

Is everyone totally confused yet?:D

Right. I took a different tack with the words that you quoted, and this is based on what people actually DO vs. what they say they WANT to do. In some circles, people are measured by their deeds and not their words.

[Marleena]

Right. I took a different tack with the words that you quoted, and this is based on what people actually DO vs. what they say they WANT to do. In some circles, people are measured by their deeds and not their words.

You know the best part Reine there is absolutely nothing wrong with being called transgender. It makes it easier for the rest of the world to start accepting all of us. The TG groups are working hard for us.

[VikkiDave]

As I have always felt that I was a girl/woman trapped inside a male body (even when I was 10) I count myself as a closet transsexual that allows the girl to come out by crossdressing

[Lorileah]

Is everyone totally confused yet?:D

Yes, uh no, well maybe. Can you restate the question?


I think it all boils down to whether someone does this part-time or full-time, no matter what they call themselves.


I am part time, looking to go full time when there is an opening in the department but due to budget cuts, that may be awhile. Besides there are so many willing to be part time, there are two for every professional looking for full time dressing. When we go full time do we get benefits? What about vacation? Seniority?

[julia marie]

So many labels and so many definitions. Simplified: If I'm dressed en femme, I hope someone will call me "pretty". Then I hope they will just call me.

[ReineD]

You know the best part Reine there is absolutely nothing wrong with being called transgender. It makes it easier for the rest of the world to start accepting all of us. The TG groups are working hard for us.

Absolutely!!! In the cis-world, among people who have no clue about any of this, let alone the various degrees of gender dysphoria and the multitude reasons for cross-gender expression, using "Transgender" is in my opinion the best term to use since it keeps things simple and it allows them to classify you (in their minds ... we all do this subconsciously), based on the vibes that you give off. If and only if they are curious about the details, then you can get into further explanations.

But in this community, if a member tells another member he or she is Transgender, it doesn't describe anything. Of course he or she is transgender just based on being here ... but to what degree is the gender dysphoria, and what decisions have been made about how to live a life and in what gender?

[Marleena]

Yes, uh no, well maybe. Can you restate the question?



Ummm just no Lorileah, I'm so confused now I'm not sure which way is up..lol. Never again will I start a thread like this.:)

[AshleyCDFL]

This is all just a matter of how closely you want to zoom in on the spectrum. From a macro perspective, one could say we all belong to a single world population. Zoom in just a little and one could now begin to divide the singular into many starting with say sex, woman or man. Zoom in just a bit more and one could further divide those categories into sub categories of straight, gay or lesbian, and bi-sexual. Zoom in just a bit more and one can see each of these groups could be bifurcated into transgender or not transgender (I don't know if this is a specific word for this, lol). Fast forward and turn on the electron microscope, and one can now see we are all unique individuals, each a sub category of only 1... In the end you end up with two end points (1 world population and the individual, approx. 1/7,000,000,000). I'm not convinced selecting an arbitrary frame of reference (i.e. how much you choose to zoom in on the scale) has any bearing on who you really are and only serves to segregate society, which is never a healthy thing. Call me whatever you want, but I'll be always be me regardless.

[Sophie_C]

Oh, and don't forget, if ever you are sexual when dressed, then you are a TRANS-VES-TITE! lol

People in this thread are confusing the term "transvestite" which is a synonym for "crossdresser", with "transvestic fetishism" or "fetish crossdresser". Not all crossdressers/transvestites are fetishistic. :rolleyes:

Ok, go ahead and explain that. Explain the scenario where someone is not transgendered and not a fetishistic crossdresser, but still a crossdresser.

And, don't forget that people can have sexual pleasure without displaying a physical reaction.

I'd really like to hear this.

[ReineD]

This is all just a matter of how closely you want to zoom in on the spectrum. From a macro perspective, one could say we all belong to a single world population. Zoom in just a little and one could now begin to divide the singular into many starting with say sex, woman or man. Zoom in just a bit more and one could further divide those categories into sub categories of straight, gay or lesbian, and bi-sexual. Zoom in just a bit more and one can see each of these groups could be bifurcated into transgender or not transgender (I don't know if this is a specific word for this, lol). Fast forward and turn on the electron microscope, and one can now see we are all unique individuals, each a sub category of only 1... In the end you end up with two end points (1 world population and the individual, approx. 1/7,000,000,000). I'm not convinced selecting an arbitrary frame of reference (i.e. how much you choose to zoom in on the scale) has any bearing on who you really are and only serves to segregate society, which is never a healthy thing. Call me whatever you want, but I'll be always be me regardless.

Brilliant! But, I think in terms of communicating who we are to one another within this community, it's OK to use an fstop somewhere in the middle of f/2.8 and f/32, and add further details as required. :)

[SAMANN]

I can't answer this question as I don't know what I am CD, TG, TV, or TS. I know that I was born with a penis choices made for me at a young age made that dysfunctional organ function. My mind on the other hand has leaned towards the feminine. All my life I have struggled with this question now I have come to understand that in my heart I am a woman but my body is that of a middle aged man who when dressed looks a lot like Phyllis diller on a bad hair day. I hope as I explore this question and my self more with my counselor that I will be able to define myself and my place in the world be that as a CD, TS, TV, or TG or whatever label helps me to define me.wear.

[mariehart]

It seems to me at it's simplest. We all crossdress. Born male, whether we like it or not. We wear female clothes. We crossdress. Another word for that is transvestite. Both are interchangeable although transvestite has in some quarters become associated with fethism.

So we are all crossdressers.

But the motivations are quite different. Therein lies the discussion and arguments.

At one extreme, we have the man who enjoys wearing underwear and lingerie. At the other the almost ascetic person who while she dresses female. It's far from flashy and often drab.

In between lies everyone else. But there is a clear line I think between those who have no doubt in their mind that they are in fact men dressing as women and those like me who feel that most of the time they are in fact women dressing and acting as men except when they're wearing female clothes. But there is a huge middle ground and the people in it often move back and forth.

But in the wearing of clothes, there are no real rules. I can and do like to wear lingerie. Just like a GG. Although I no longer own any. I also like to make up and dress up and totter around in ridiculous high heels. In reality when I do dress female these days. It's often in casual clothes just like GGs. Drab and non-descript.

That's my way. Everyone has their own style and preference.

People love to categorise and label. It helps simplify things sometimes. But it flies in the face of reality. Everyone is different. The only thing many of us have in common is the the simple fact that we wear female clothing sometimes or all the time. That's it really.

[ReineD]

Ok, go ahead and explain that. Explain the scenario where someone is not transgendered and not a fetishistic crossdresser, but still a crossdresser.

And, don't forget that people can have sexual pleasure without displaying a physical reaction.

I'd really like to hear this.

Sorry, I don't understand your question or your position. Other than transitioning transsexuals who will eventually change their names and gender markers legally and live stealth as women (with HRT and surgeries), I am saying that some people dress for fetish, some dress for identity reasons, and some dress for both. Some are part-time presenting as feminine men, some are part-time presenting as women, and some are full time or near full time presenting as either feminine men or women. And some just wear the clothes in their own homes, with and without sexual arousal. And I've seen any one of these people call themselves crossdresser, transvestite, transgender, middlepather, inbetweener, dualgender, bigender, transgenderist, femulator, genderqueer, or even TS for that matter, since everyone has different definitions for all of these words and also depending on what part of the world they're from.

So what is it that you would like me to explain? :p

[Lorileah]

Ok, go ahead and explain that. Explain the scenario where someone is not transgendered and not a fetishistic crossdresser, but still a crossdresser. Reine, This is just another "I have to argue because I can" things. Nowhere did Reine ever say that any of the above were not transgendered so that makes the question moot. What she said was that in certain areas of the world you can be either a crossdresser or a transvestite, it is all on what the definition in that area is. In the US transvestite is usually associated with sexual play. The whole can you have sexual pleasure without physical reaction is again moot. Nowhere did Reine say you have to have a physical reaction or orgasm. The point of the post was that when we define certain actions i e "fetish crossdressing" it is about the sexual pleasure, that the purpose of that article is to gain sexual satisfaction. It has no other value to the person wearing it.
No you don't have to have orgasm, but you do wear the clothing to gain the sexual thrill alone. You can be a crossdresser (and in fact most who identify as a crossdressers are this way) not gain a noticeable sexual thrill any longer from it. Don't read things into posts that are not there.

In fact if you read all of Reine's posts you will see she includes the fetishists in the TG umbrella

[pacificblue]

Biologically male, emotionally and psychologically female. For various reasons, not able to alter outward appearance using anything but crossdressing. Transsexual but indentified as just about anything and everything else before I came to accept myself. Much happier now.

[Sophie_C]

Sorry, I don't understand your question or your position. Other than transitioning transsexuals who will eventually change their names and gender markers legally and live stealth as women (with HRT and surgeries), I am saying that some people dress for fetish, some dress for identity reasons, and some dress for both. Some are part-time presenting as feminine men, some are part-time presenting as women, and some are full time or near full time presenting as either feminine men or women. And some just wear the clothes in their own homes, with and without sexual arousal. And I've seen any one of these people call themselves crossdresser, transvestite, transgender, middlepather, inbetweener, dualgender, bigender, transgenderist, femulator, genderqueer, or even TS for that matter, since everyone has different definitions for all of these words and also depending on what part of the world they're from.

So what is it that you would like me to explain? :p

Ok, it was just how you worded it before then. To me, it made it sound like it was something other than a mix. I do agree then, and that's sort of where I put the "confusion" in.

[VikkiDave]

I am certainly a crossdresser. I consider myself to be outwardly expressing the feminine part of my soul, the part I have named "Amy," while I'm dressed, so I will also accept the "transgender" descriptor.

I like the Native American term, too..."two-spirited." That seems to describe what I feel.

- Amy

I agree, ever since I heard of the native american 'two soul' (Winkte) classification I have thought that they were right, and were very enlightened in this respect

[Ressie]

So we are all crossdressers.

But the motivations are quite different. Therein lies the discussion and arguments.

At one extreme, we have the man who enjoys wearing underwear and lingerie. At the other the almost ascetic person who while she dresses female. It's far from flashy and often drab.


Are the conventional definitions of transvestite and transexual still valid? There are members here that have been unsure which of those two categories they fit into, including myself sometimes. But crossdressing and being born in the wrong body are two completely different things right?

[Tiffany Grace]

Great question, and in the quest of self discovery sometimes we change. These days I avoid labels and just embrace me. I know identifying with others is a good thing, community, commonalities etc. but there is no group that will ever define me since I am an individual. I don't believe CDers are necessarily transgender.

But most transgendered definitely wear dresses :D

[Janelle_C]

I am under that transgender umbrella. What I'm trying to figure out is how far down that scale I need to be to feel happy about who I am.

[Allison Chaynes]

Not worried too much about the label but I feel I'm both a guy and a girl. So yes, CD and TG to a degree.

[Ninotchka]

Definitely a crossdresser. I am a happy great grandfather who has secretly, and openly dressed in what are commonly called women's garments.
I am a man caught up in the pretty, tactile voluptuosness of satin, lace, taffeta, chiffon, etc. I have fun with wigs, lipstick,earrings and beads. I am the soul of equanimity because I can live in such things. My most burning question is "Where can a CD find an accepting rest home in old age?"

[Marleena]

Are the conventional definitions of transvestite and transexual still valid? There are members here that have been unsure which of those two categories they fit into, including myself sometimes. But crossdressing and being born in the wrong body are two completely different things right?

Yes I think both are still valid Dee but at totally different ends of the gender spectrum with transvestite now more commonly called crossdresser.

[Rianna Humble]

Are the conventional definitions of transvestite and transexual still valid? There are members here that have been unsure which of those two categories they fit into, including myself sometimes. But crossdressing and being born in the wrong body are two completely different things right?

The definition of transvestite seems to differ with where on the globe you are at the time but most on this site seem to prefer the anglicized version - cross-dresser

As far as I am aware the most significant changes in the definition of transsexual are that it is no longer classified as a mental disease or defect and that it is now widely accepted that you are born transsexual.

If your deepest sense of gender identity is completely opposite to your natal sex, it is likely that you are transsexual. How badly you are affected by Gender Dysphoria will likely determine whether you need to transition or not.

[sexymarkwatson]

im CD at the moment

[Leila Be]

I feel I was born into the right body with the ability to experience feminine sensuality. This includes cd-ing and enjoying the fantasy that I can also also a beautiful woman who gets pleasure from both worlds.

[mariehart]

Are the conventional definitions of transvestite and transexual still valid? There are members here that have been unsure which of those two categories they fit into, including myself sometimes. But crossdressing and being born in the wrong body are two completely different things right?I can only answer for myself and ultimately that's all we can do. To me crossdressing is merely the description of what we do. As for being born in the wrong body, perhaps I am. All I know is that everything that I am is at odds with the body I inhabit.

Clearly others are clear with their identity as male but they crossdress for whatever reason. Me I identify as female and 'crossdress' accordingly.

But I do feel I can relate to anyone whatever the motivation for crossdressing. I do not exclude anyone. But that's just me.

[Joanne f]

As Mariehart as said, you can only answer for yourself and the more I think about it the more confusing it gets as I am inclined to answer the question as at now in time but when I look back I thought different things , first of all I did not really think about it as I just did it , then I went through a period of thinking that I am just a man in a skirt, then that went on to be ," I must be a cross dresser", now I look at things differently in that I am a transgendered person of some sort , so is what I am that has changed or is it that through this site and the internet that I have gained the knowledge to understand myself or is it that any one of you will change as to what you think you are over time which is making it a " as of now question" I wonder if you younger ones will give the same answer in ten years time .

( I would like to make it clear that if any wife's/so read this that it is about how I have changed and that does not mean that your husband/so will do the same as we are all different)

( OH I do not like the word Transvestite for two reasons , go on the internet (OK you are already on it silly me ):heehee: and look for a Transvestite site and you will no doubt come up with many seedy sites not that I am a prude as it is all part of life and I am very open minded which you have to be if you want p[people to accept you for what you are , and the other thing is that over here if some village idiot drives by and shouts out of the window it is going to be "hey tranny" as that one word mounts up to their basic knowledge of the TG world and all it's complex ways and I expect that they think it is very macho to shout out of their car window so I think that tranny has become very much of an abuse or derogatory thing over here .

[kimdl93]

I take the broader view of what TG means. It encompasses a range of behaviors....so yes I am transgendered because I am a CDr. My motivations may differ from fetish dressers, for example, but I see all as being under the TG umbrella.