How much is enough..........

[Inna]

this evening started on a upbeat note, as I knew I will meet some friends at the Club, once in the club I had a devastating wake up call.
After a while sitting outside and enjoying a sip of sprite a man came and asked if he could sit across from me as there were no available spots elsewhere. I nodded yes, and after a minute he begun a nice conversation. It was simply about his love of this place and that he had a tough road to get to this comfortable feeling of being happy as he was a recovering alcoholic. We talked a while and when I encroached on the subject of sympathy to his struggle pointing out my own without any detail, he said that he knew how hard it is for transgender folks.

I choked and slowly regaining focus, asked how did he know? He started a bit defensive as he realized he had touched a very tender and painful subject, explaining that he lived in Los Angeles for 25 years and he was very close to TS community.

I kept on probing assuring him that I am not so much hurt as very interested to know what gave me away, he was slow to pin point and his answer was circulating around subject of size, hands then moved to the obviousness of my past through him just simply knowing.

When I told him I wasn't hurt, I wasn't entirely truthful, a quality I never wavered but now felt betrayed and forced back into the dungeons of despair.
The mere fact that he was right about my past kept on digging its sharp claws into my consciousness eating away confidence bite by bite.

"But I do work and function in the world", I thought to my self, "and so far no one had brought this up against me, are they just very polite, they must be, mass delusion, where in stark reality, I am no better off then when I started".

Seems in any way one approaches the subject of trans, they are bound for devastating blows, just like this one, they seem like life lets go and comfort of serenity approaches, and then Wham!!! Bringing me back to my knees weeping tears of sorrow.

Will it ever end............................................... ...

[AllieSF]

It will only end when you accept you for yourself and not worry about what everyone else thinks and comments. From your posts you seem to go from a high to a low and then into the middle for awhile to then start the cycle all over again. Somehow, I think that you need to learn how to break that cycle. It appears to me that you put too much value in other people's opinions, especially about your looks. It is a natural thing to do, but it can bring a lot of unnecessary grief to those who cannot handle it. I do wish you the best of luck.

[Inna]

I know that your words are spoken in love and helpful spirit! I appreciate that very much, but I also cannot subscribe to dismissive way of thinking.

What I mean by that is simply, that if I encounter honest yet negative opinion, I shall dismiss it because it reflects only 1% of societal response.
And to be quite honest, as I have dig deep into psychology of human experience, I come to know that our feeling of self is based on internal as much as external.

Because of such devotion to achieving womanhood, I was able to come a far, otherwise I would have settled for one tenth of that, being fine with achieving only partial status of obviously transgender person whom I am not!

I say that with utmost knowledge that I was in fact born a Woman, and not a transsexual and the need to arrive in absolute womanhood, of course I am speaking of visual clues and not chromosomal/genetic makeup. I am leaving transsexuality behind as it was a correctable birth defect.

Only when, in the midst of most critical opinion, will I be taken as a lesbian at the gay bar by a transsexuality expert :), will I then be whole.

Call it perfectionist, obsessive, purist, or just plain stupid, as I call it just ME!

[Sarah Welch]

Maybe this was due to the venue. Being in a place where trans people are likely to be seen; can spark speculation as to gender status.

It is a sad fact, but if you want to be 100% stealth, it may require turning your back on our community so there is less chance of being associated as trans...

[Inna]

Not only is it true but a necessary step in embracing clear view of the world at hand, you are right!
I was there because of the friendships I have developed over the years and shall not abandon because of the fear. But just the same as I consider my self a post-transexuality survivor, I would have been taken as a lesbian woman in a lesbian/gay bar by even most critical eye if everything worked as it supposed to just as I get from 99.9% of folks and all the time as I am being seen as a Genetic woman.

Obviously everything didn't work as it supposed to, and that is why it resonates with me as much and that is why I can not dismiss it just as one can not dismiss a cancerous growth.

[Nicole Erin]

We kind of have a couple options -
If a TS CAN get to the point of passing without question, great, do so.
But if not, sooner or later you just get over the fact that some are gonna know. It takes a while though.

Being passable speaks for itself so let us examine the reality of not being perfectly passable -

Once you get to the point of being confident enough that it just doesn't bother you when people know, it is awesome.
At that point, when you hear someone rambling on about the whole TG thing or trying to give you advice about being confident or not worrying about what others think, you just tend to think "Yeah I am way past that point" and you realize you are on a different level than they are. They are just beginning to understand and trying to accept what TG is about. You, on the other hand, will fully understand and not be worrying about it. When non-TG people start in about TG crap, you will get bored. You start to realize they are going on about something they know little about and they are not worth talking to about it.

Yes it is annoying not being passable all the time or having snide people call you "he" but you have to live your life either way.
Part of the problem with building confidence, I suppose, is when you see or hear about other TS who pass 100% and could be supermodels. Someone always has it better or easier. Look at it like this - even with the ones who out themselves in the media like Miss Canada, you can look and listen to her and just know something is "off". The only thing keeping even the most passable TS out of the radar is cause most folks are not actively looking at people and trying to see if they are TS. Some are, like that guy at the club.
Sometimes you might get "read" by some idiot who has to make hateful comments. Please realize that those people are just idiots and typically don't treat GG's any better.

With anything in life, you can ALWAYS find a downside. The object is to find and enjoy the upsides. We are going to be TS no matter what. One can either worry about "not being passable enough" or one can live life and worry about and do other things.

[ChelseaErtel]

I can't add much, Nicole Erin said it very well. It does hurt being read, and I find it hard to accept and it gets me down. I've never been openly confronted, just a remark I over heard - it hurt, but I thought what does it matter. I am who I am, if they can't accept me then that's there problem.

I'm not large, but at 5-10 still tall for a women. Luckily that women seem to be getting taller and wearing larger shoes. I read a business article that size ten is under high demand now. So perhaps blending in is getting easier.

Anyway, my thoughts are with you and I know how you feel. I have not transitioned yet, and wonder how I'd feel after all one goes through to correct ones body to be outed. Life is hard, but most people are honest, decent and accepting and that gives me hope.

[BreenaDion]

I am 58 yrs old and spent my quality yrs as a MAN. 4 yrs ago Transsexualism bit me and hard so I had to change cause im not strong enough to resist. 3 yrs now on hrt and when I see myself in a mirror or a resent picture my spouse takes I am FOOLING myself if I think I can pass without a second thought. I know in my head that I pass like a brick in a football game but I go through life just trying to hit a balance as NOT to dip in that sour side of darkness and despair. Yes people are polite and don't want to hurt you or even get into an argument over you being TG or a TS. I have been in this housing community for 6 months and I know that some know im TG but get called lady/girl whatever but the at least its the right pronoun. I tolerate the fact I WILL NEVER COMPLETELY PASS but I don't have too. All that matters is that I am happy within myself and with the progress that I am making in my journey. I expect people to see that I am a TG and I don't talk about cause IT WILL ALWAYS BE THEIR for me but I live my life now best I can with inner peace and except my fate for this late in life its all I can hope for.

I convinced myself early on in transition with the guidance from my social worker that it will be a long road and to slow down the Transsexualism as much as I can. This journey probability will never fruit me absolute STEALTH but at least I can hope for is PEACE within myself. That is something I have been achieving a little at a time and very slowly but I muster on. To get Witnessed and Mirrored is the best medicine for me . Strides are slow and far between but the balance makes life livable. Its best to except that you can't fool everyone but to except your fate and deal with it.

[Inna]

Thanks girls for your responses!

As I have posted this here description of the event which not only took me by surprise but was in a small measure devastating, it wasn't so much about passability or not, such connotation was long gone from my vocabulary. I live my life 24/7 in the real world experience being viewed and interacted by all and I mean all, as a genetic woman. Last nights confrontation though seriously undermined my belief that I am actually already there.
Now when I hear the comment from someone regarding being beautiful, I honestly hesitate as too them referring "beautiful transsexual or a Beautiful Woman"
I know that to this point of my transition I have done absolutely everything one could possibly have done, and if this still proves to be not enough, then I am not sure I should ever speak again about transition and possibilities it brings as I now, seriously doubt the end point is achievable at all.

[kellycan27]

Instead of focusing on the negative ... Count the blessings that you do have. You say that you pass 99.9% of the time so why the whine?

[Inna]

because of 0.01% is too many!

[ReineD]

Now when I hear the comment from someone regarding being beautiful, I honestly hesitate as too them referring "beautiful transsexual or a Beautiful Woman"

I know there is a difference between what I'm about to say and your concerns about being read, but please try to make the connection.

The other night I attempted to take a picture of my hair, with my laptop, to possibly post in a thread on the other side of the forum about long hair. In order to save money I stopped cutting and highlighting my hair about 3 years ago, which I used to do every 6 weeks. It is quite long now, past my bra clasp in the back and thankfully it has not yet turned gray.

So I was taking pictures with the hair cascading in front of half my face, in order to preserve some anonymity should I have decided to post the picture. But it happened that I HATED, absolutely hated the little bit of face that could be seen ... half the chin, mouth, the aging eye that no longer looks as if I am 25. I felt I looked old and unattractive, so much so that I deleted all the pictures I had taken. I've aged quite a bit (it seems to me) just in the last few years. And looking at the pictures of my face the other night, I wondered why people wouldn't run away scared when they see me.

I've felt this way about my looks for most of my life: chin too big, lips not thick enough, eyes that look like my father's and not my mothers, thinking that I had a mean and not a kind look about my face because I have a furrow in my brow. Yet when I interact with people, they seem to really like me! :eek: In fact, when I walk along the street, some men actually give me glances!! :eek: And on top of all of this, my SO actually thinks I'm pretty, and yesterday a friend who is an artist told me how great I look for my age! :eek:

So are all these people being nice with the things they say? Or am I so odd looking that people stare at me out of curiosity? Or am I seeing a monster in the mirror that is not there. :p

Years ago I decided that the way that I see myself is not how others see me, and so I've learned to not pay too much attention to myself. lol The other night, even though I could not get a picture that I liked, I let it go and I enjoyed the rest of my evening.

All this to say, that I needed to stop being preoccupied with how I thought I looked, how I think that others perceive me, even should someone see me and think me NOT attractive. You need to do this too when or if someone reads you, and you need to stop preoccupying yourself about whether they see you as a beautiful woman or a beautiful TS. It doesn't matter, because you ARE beautiful. I've seen your pictures and you have the face of an angel, on top of being photogenic. :)

Beauty transcends everything .. gender, age, culture, even time.

[Persephone]

In those moments the knife just goes so deep. And it feels like it isn't going to stop. Happens to me to, so I know the feeling. I can empathize.

But in a weird way it almost is the proof that you really are on the other side of the fence, that you really have succeeded. If that wasn't true, if it happened all the time, it wouldn't hurt so much. So the hurt tells you how rare, how unexpected, it really is, and that makes all the difference.

Sarah Welch had it right -- you were in a place where it would be assumed you were T rather than GG. In those places the burden of proof is backwards from the real world.

And Reine tells the truth -- as a woman you will always be judged by others and, harshest of all, by yourself. A woman has got to have a thick skin just to be a woman. But the rewards are more precious than anything you left behind.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Inna]

@ Reine & Persephone, hugs and thanks for such heart felt wisdom, I am slowly getting better. What I took from this encounter is another strength to keep on improving what I feel needs improving, as I always say, "Nothing happens coincidentally"
The part I am seeing as strength is the fact I can get over such painful incident in a day or two, where before it took weeks and months.

Thanks again :)

PS; I just received an Email from a dear friend and in it she attached a photo with 4 of her friends. In the photo are 4 models in their 30s-40's as my friend used to be a runway top ranking at the time, male model. All GGs starting at 5-11 and topping at 6-2
She says that every and each one of them had been asked before if they are TS.........I suppose, to be asked such, based on height and unusual features seems to be just fine lately.
I am certain that if they have showed up at the club where I got my scrutiny the other evening, they would have been asked the same!
Why everything is so complicated..................................

[jaleecd]

I often find beauty in the entire person, not by what the audience of signifience holds as the current modle of feminine beauty.
How open is She, How friendly, How interested in who I might be? Is this a person I would invest my remaining time on this globe in? And as a woman , does She spark the desire to protect Her against the worlds dangers. Her need to be seen as woman is enough for me to accept that as Her truth, would She grant me the same coutersey?.....Jalee

[Beverley Sims]

Inna,
I don't drink and I would have been curious about you as well.
The fact that he had insight into your situation "and you did state what it was" you have to be prepared for the questions of interest.
If you are as good looking as you say you are a lot are interested.
What age did you start taking hormones? How long did it take for your boobs to grow? Were the itchy as they were growing? Moodiness? Mindset? Living with others?
Sorry, if you mention your treatment, these are the questions I will ask because I am interested.
If you don't want to share dont tell.
He was a recovering alcoholic and already was somewhat fragile. He was able to share with you problems you both face and I am sorry you did not feel any empathy with him.

[noeleena]

Hi,

This is in part the reason i have said for many years, if you can not accept who you are no matter how you look or dress or what body parts you have or dont will not make a scrap of difference what surgerys you have or dont people will see you for what you & who you are,

yes you can hide for years, & you may ....think .... no one will pick up on who you really are, well dont live in the ill use the term pink fog because people are not stupid they will see far more than you think they will .

As you all know im intersexed & i make no bones about that, im allso a woman .= female.= not something that i wonted or wished for, its not a tack on. its part of my birth,

I went out & ...TOLD.... people about my self, & was accepted for doing that, i never hid what i was / am. & thats been proved from some 40 years ago. by people who knew me then.

Okay, When we face up to our selfs we dont have to prove what or who we are, because people will accept , yet we need to face our selfs first, my story really started 55 years ago. & i knew what & who i was, yet i started to really live some 19 years ago.

This & what im saying is all about accepting our selfs, & there should not be a time of when some one see's us & talk's to us & see's in us & know's of our past , i know some dont wont thier past to be known, well they are not the same as my self & i dont expect them to understand why i was so very public in how i went about things , issues, & really my life, to all i could reach.

As the years go on you may see what im saying does have the ring of truth about this,

You accept who you are, you love your self , you get to know your self, & allow other's in to your life, & never deniy who you are, or your past, because with out your past you have nothing. & can be nothing.

I would be the worst looking female or even though i have grown in to a woman , theres nothing about my looks that will say female, yet i have what it takes to be a woman. hence my being accepted by our friends & those new ones i have .

There's not much i can offer other than say just be you. & embrace all of who you are, can you do that, will you do that, , this is what i have done, so nothing stop's me from being myself & a female / woman,

...noeleena...

[Jorja]

As you are relativly new to all of this, don't let every little thing bother you so much. You were at a known place where Trans people hang out. It is only natural for people to suspect you to be Trans. Depending on how truthful you want to be, the ball is in your court. You can say yes, I am or no, I am not. Would it really make any difference? You are now the person you need/want to be. Be that person!

[Kate Simmons]

Only you can end it my friend. Once you let it go and are just yourself you will forget all of this. You are who you are and you are my friend for one thing. I value that friendship and so do others on the Forum. That must be worth something. If others know who we are or were so what? Knowing we are the person we want and need to be is the important thing. Your true friends will never let you down in this regard Inna.:):hugs:

[stefan37]

Inna

Do not be so hard on yourself. You have reached many milestones and your insight into our condition is very spiritual. You are an inspiration to all of us that follow in your footsteps. I am thinking as are others it was the venue you were at that brought those thoughts to the forefront. I would imagine the same circumstance in Panera’s for instance, the thought would never have crossed his mind.

[melissaK]

Nice thread you started Inna! As you often do, you take us to the mat; this time on our ambitions to pass as part of our goal of being the woman we know we are.

I have had my run ins with mirrors and efforts to pass at several times in my life. The results were terrifying, and I ran away.

But, as you all know the sparks of desire to be a woman can't be extinguished, and it keeps burning through or assimilating everything we throw in its way, and so it was with me. I have surrendered. And with it I had to surrender my debilitating fears of losing all that is my life and all that may be my future life. With that is my fear I shall not ever be taken by the casual observer as being a woman.

I got the idea I must be so prepared from several girls, including you Inna.

Supposedly even Jesus had his moments of doubt, and you're entitled too Inna. But do hang in there sweetie.

[Pink Person]

It saddens me when transgender people go into a shame spiral when they are correctly read as transgender people. It is an absurd form of self-loathing. We have no right to be read as cisgender people because we are not cisgender people.

The happy lie that we wish everyone else would always believe should cause us more discomfort than the unhappy truth that sometimes disturbs us. It doesn't though. Why is it so?

It's because we want more than we deserve to get, just like everybody else. Transgender people deserve respect, but they don't deserve a gender status that doesn't belong to them. It's a luxury and a gift if we ever fool anyone. Don't expect to sell silver for gold with a paint job. Silver has its own fair worth. Don't get greedy trying to falsely trade up.

[Badtranny]

Inna doll, I'm so glad you brought this to the forum. It's a nice extension to my 'full-time tranny' thread and now that everyone has given you the "buck up camper" speech, I'm gonna swing in and totally agree with you.

The more time you spend as a regular gal, the harder it gets to deal with the occasional "tranny moment". There was a time when I actually said I didn't care if people knew I was TS, I just wanted them to think I looked hot. I don't feel like that anymore. Now I have a perspective that can't be obtained by imagining, or speculating. I have a perspective that you can only get from living in the real world as a TS woman. Every single day, every where you go, every person you meet, there is no hiding, just a relentless parade of life that seems endless and exhausting on some days. Diet, posture, haircare, fashion, makeup, and we can't slip an inch because we have to be better than a 'real' girl. There is no casual day for us, no day without the constant reminder of our past and our persistent struggle to overcome it. No easy day. No easy way. ...so what do we do?

We do exactly what you're doing, we push through and work even harder. As passing becomes easier, my goal has already moved beyond stealth. I fully expect to be stealth someday, my new goal is to have no hope of ever passing as a man again. The closer I get to passing beyond a shadow of a doubt, (not there yet) the less I care about that and want more. A woman's reach should always exceed her grasp and I'm already working towards that day when there's nothing I could do to look like a dude.

You've come a long way baby and maybe you're right, maybe you're not there yet, but so what. Aim higher and keep flapping lady. ;-)

[KellyJameson]

I cannot speak to your circumstances Inna but only to my own.

In my case I relate to men differently so treat them differently than they would experience from a cis-gendered woman.

I watch them watching me. Their eyes will move over my body just as they would for a cis-gendered woman. They will engage me and do all the things that men do, but while they are doing it you can see them working a problem in their minds because they "feel" something is off but they do not know what it is.

I realize now that a lifetime of experience has shaped how I subconsciously relate to the world. It created a responsive template that I'm not even aware of because it goes so deep.

I'm a woman who lived in the body of a man so "I" as a woman have been shaped by this experience instead of being shaped by the experience of being a woman living in the body of a woman.

For me I have found this to be a fascinating aspect that I did not anticipate in my relations to men. I understand them in ways that I do not think a cis-gendered woman can because she does not have my "perspective" just as I do not have her "perspective" and this affects all my encounters with people for the first time regardless if they are man or woman.

I have been out in the world playing with this and have had many interesting experiences with all types of men lately (not sexual but not for lack of trying on their part)

I always stood outside of relationships because I could not relate to either sex but I always sensed that their was a natural conflict that happens between men and women, especially when the relationship is sexual. Men and women have a love/hate relationship with each other that I have never been a part of because of course I could not.

What I'm finding is I pull men toward me very strongly and it is this pull that they do not understand because it is not coming from what they "see" but instead what they "experience" but they think it is because of what they "see" and I can watch the confusion written on their faces.

They "experience" me differently than they do a cis-gendered woman. It is very subtle, almost invisible. They are not experiencing the "adversarial tension" that they are used to having with women that nature designed into the sexes and they are drawn to this but also suspicious because of its absence. It is like they relate to me like porn, like a two diamensional image because my substance below the image is "different" and I wonder if it may be chemical along with other things.

It is absolutely fascinating to watch.

I watch them having this push-pull experience and than they start probing with their questions trying to fiqure it out, trying to fiqure me out.

They do not like that I understand them to the degree that I can because there is no where for them to hide and some get annoyed because their games do not work but others become extremely interested and I have had that nervous experience of being hunted along with that direct hard sexual advance which is very surreal the first few times it happens.

I now know what is meant by the expression being "pawed" which was really weird,exciting and scary all at once.

I never realized how interesting men are, they are much more complex and have greater depth than I originally thought but I now know that it will be impossible for me to change a lifetime of experiences and how this has "imprinted me" so I will always be "different" than a cis-gendered woman and men will "feel" this difference contrasted against all their experiences with cis-gendered woman.

My life perspective as (experience) affects my perspective as (experiencing) of men changing their perspective as (experience) of me and their perspective as (experience) of cis-gendered woman does the same thing in relation to me.

It would be interesting to hear if any TS woman have been able to seamlessly step into the "consciousness" of a cis-gendered woman.

For myself I do not think this will ever be possible but I actually like not having a cis-gendered consciousness and have no interest in trying to be different from what I am because I have wasted enough time already trying to do that.

We are always our history because our history shapes us into who we are.

[Nicole Erin]

Even if someone detects you are TS...
In case you have not gathered from the CD section - the world could care less if someone is CD/TS.
How many times do they say "I went out and didn't get a second look"... "I was treated as any other woman..." "No one said anything..."
You know damn well a lot of them probably get detected as much as we do. Yet they go out during the day and pretty much live life.

As I said, the only folks out there who make a big deal of it are either haters or are fascinated by us. The haters are not worth thinking about and the fascinated ones are a pain in the butt in their own way. Gyod I always think "Can we talk about something interesting instead of whether or not there is a one-eyed monster hiding in my skirt?" But, most people just don't care. Just act like a normal human being and that is how most will treat you.

I am still lost here as to what the problem is. It is not like there were droves of people running to the door and screaming cause a TG person was there. There weren't any angry villagers with torches and pitch forks, Joan Rivers didn't go get another facelift... well maybe she did but that happens all the time anyways....

I mean no matter how passable or stealth one becomes, sooner or later they have to move on and live life. Do things like work, avoid bill collectors, stay up too late on the web, find excuses not to go to the gym today...

Instead of obsessing about if you are treated one way or another, why not worry about if people treat you as a human? I guess everyone at my job knows I am TS and they don't make any fuss over it. Well except on days when the bring food... usually by the time I get back there it is just scraps left. That might be because i am TS and it is their way of letting me know they hate me. Or maybe cause they think I am fat. "hey everyone, eat all the good stuff before Erin's lard ass waddles back here!" yeah that's it!

[melissaK]

Is it just me, or did Reine and Pink Person say the same thing?

Well Inna, and Bad Melissa, are you dreaming the impossible dream? I couldn't get through my so called life without having such notions myself. (Always to the mat to wrestle out issues with you two. God I love you both).

[LeaP]

Is it just me, or did Reine and Pink Person say the same thing?


Nope. I think Reine's comments are closer to what Inna expressed. I took Reine's comments as the normal frustration everyone experiences in achieving their goals or reflecting their ideals as regards their self-image ... or even just managing to look pulled together on any given day. It doesn't matter if you are cissexual or not, old or young. Everyone. Being trans introduces some special difficulties into the equation, but once identity is established, if the goal is rational (see more below), it is really no different.

PP's argument (as I took it) was that Inna's expression was a manifestion of not having accepted her reality as a trans woman in a realistic way. As in, you are different, you will look different, the problem is others' acceptance and that you're buying into a false reality.

Being trans and being a woman are not mutually-exclusive. Inna is a woman and has every right to want to attain not having her identity called into question, regardless of where the general public stands. There's a practical aspect to this as well in that the attainment of the goal is reasonable in Inna's case. It is not in some others. A graceful acceptance of what we must accept is one thing. Striving to improve what we ARE is another.

I don't see Inna's reaction as shame or self-loathing. I read it as discouragement, perhaps somewhat despairing, but discouragement.

[Badtranny]

I read it as discouragement, perhaps somewhat despairing, but discouragement.

It's temporary though, perhaps momentary. This journey is a climb and the rock is huge and imperfect. Lucky for us, it is those imperfections that allow us a foothold to continue the climb. Some of us can be weakened by the struggle, but some of us will be strengthened. Some of us will shake off the disappointment of realizing what we thought was the top is really just a ledge, and reach up for another craggy rock. We are emboldened by the struggle and made stronger by the effort.

This isn't about not accepting who we are, this is about pushing the boundaries of our condition. This is about raising the bar until we can no longer clear it, and continue to raise it until we can no longer jump.

[Jorja]

This isn't about not accepting who we are, this is about pushing the boundaries of our condition. This is about raising the bar until we can no longer clear it, and continue to raise it until we can no longer jump.

Most of you have only just begun the climb. Believe me, there Will come a day when you will reach the top. No more ledges, no more craggy rocks to grab on to, no more jumping to get over that bar. You will be there. Honestly, it isn't that much higher. Focus and keep your eye on the prize.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Most of you have only just begun the climb. Believe me, there Will come a day when you will reach the top. No more ledges, no more craggy rocks to grab on to, no more jumping to get over that bar. You will be there. Honestly, it isn't that much higher. Focus and keep your eye on the prize.

Right! and the prize is getting rid of gender dysphoria, and that means having the accompanying self esteem/shame/guilt/anxiety/depression/isolation issues mitigated.....

is it better to be so beautiful and feminine that when you are outed its a devastating experience to your quality of life or to simply be yourself, and no matter how your appearance or circumstances impact transition, be 100% ok with yourself...

being 100% ok with yourself is the bar i am trying to raise...i'm at about 93.6% so i'll keep trying...

I'd be upset about getting suprised by an outing..
but being outed in a bar after a year of totally passing is something half the people right here would give both their right n*ts for...literally..





they are not independent, but for the beauties its a harder thing to separate..

[melissaK]

All theses climbing analogies.

So once in my youth I was hiking up out of the Grand Canyon on a lesser known back-country trail. And as you hike up you are on trails that traverse or switchback up cliff faces so you have no view of the top. After almost a full day of hiking I was grinding my way up a set of switch backs I was sure I was the last cliff face before the rim. I hit the top of the switchbacks and realized I wasn't near the rim at all, I was on a plateau with another 1000' of cliff to go up. F%#* it was a long day.

And so this journey is similar. Climbing the cliff faces I think I'm really getting somewhere. But it's just another plateau still a long way from the rim. Its encouraging to hear from Jorja that there is a rim up there somewhere . . . .

[Jorja]

Its encouraging to hear from Jorja that there is a rim up there somewhere . . . .

Yes, there is a rim. Here is the thing though, it is up to You to determine exactly where that rim is. It could be very near the bottom where you have started from or it could be thousands of feet up there. Where do you draw the line? Where is it that you are comfortable with where you are going and what you have achieved? For me it was way up there.

[kellycan27]

Stop hanging around with transsexuals and at transsexual venues.

[Kate Simmons]

Stop hanging around with transsexuals and at transsexual venues.Pretty much my thought as well Kelly. If you look like a duck, walk like a duck and quack like a duck, you're a duck (which is what female ducks are called), not a drake (a male duck).:)

[Badtranny]

Stop hanging around with transsexuals and at transsexual venues.

Good advice for some, but some of the sweetest and most interesting people I've ever met happen to be CD's and over the last few years they have become quite good friends and I wouldn't dream of not hanging out with them. The TS girls that I have been lucky enough to meet (Renee, Rachel, DianeM, MichelleM, etc.) are always welcome to join me whenever and wherever. Will we get read in pairs, or groups? Maybe, but I'd rather get read with my friends than pass by myself.

My goals are lofty I admit, but my effort to look as good as possible has nothing to do with people who I call my friends. Someday it won't matter if my drinking buddy has a beard and a miniskirt, there will be absolutely no reason to think I wasn't a GG. Now that's what I call passing. ;-)

In the meantime, I would never dream of letting my friends believe that I was reluctant to hang out with them because I felt like they didn't pass well enough. They all pass just fine in my eyes.

[Kathryn Martin]

I so completely agree with you that we would pass together right now:D

In the meantime, I would never dream of letting my friends believe that I was reluctant to hang out with them because I felt like they didn't pass well enough. They all pass just fine in my eyes.

[Pink Person]

You can't always get what you want…

Some people are prone to pinball between pride and shame and never settle into humility. Humility is a feminine virtue after all. You would think it would come easier to some transgender women.

The bottom line is you have to make peace with yourself, as some other members have indicated. Peace with the rest of the world might not be possible, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Transgender women are not men and Inna wasn't read as a man, although she might have felt that way to a small (or larger) degree. We are still living in the stone age of gender perception, beliefs, knowledge, and ethics. We will all be dead of old age before things improve much, so we will just have to learn how to cope with it.

Positive thinking helps. Self-affirmations help. If negative thoughts intrude on your mind then cancel them with deliberate positive ones that make you happier. Tell yourself that you are Sasha Fierce if you lack imagination (it worked for Beyonce). It's not a cheap trick if you do it right. Also, remember to be humble, or fierce and humble, if you use my example.

[elizabethamy]

Right! and the prize is getting rid of gender dysphoria.....

being 100% ok with yourself is the bar i am trying to raise...i'm at about 93.6% so i'll keep trying...


Here is a great description of my goals! It's so clarifying to think in this way, because all the other ways (transition, partial transition, this kind of body modification or that, this medicine or that, this surgery or that) are all so daunting and overwhelming. I really like the idea of staying focused on these questions of easing the dysphoria and being okay with yourself. If I could get to 93.6% that would be an astonishing improvement!

Each of us has our own path and it's never straight and the end point is often elusive. probably most of us start out with something like: "What is this thing that's bothering me so much am I nuts?" and progress through a bunch of stages of awareness and accomplishment that end as refinements like the one Inna describes, where getting read even once is devastating. Maybe the best idea is to keep asking along the way, "am I okay with myself?" because that's all you can work on. The reactions of others will always be beyond control...

[Inna]

Just to clarify the concept behind the post!!!!

To all who answered stating that most importantly self acceptance is utmost necessary!!!! If you have read my posts from the past self acceptance and feeling of serenity within had been achieved long ago. Proof of such is spiritual warmth which I feel every second of every hour. And others who interact with me point to that as well, they them selves do see it!

So, lets NOT confuse self acceptance (internal) with level of acceptance of self within the world (external).


Believe me that achievements of the caliber of presentation I have grasp so far would have not been possible have I settled for mere OK.

So in my view, to all those who said to accept your self despite the obvious, I believe that such would be a cup out, simply, lowering of standards so that I perhaps can make my self feel better with less. NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will achieve beyond this unmeasurable barrier, I already have bulldozed so many walls, and each and every next one seems less and less a fortress and more a mere fluff.

It took me a day to get over the incident at hand, and I have returned to work next day surrounded with employees and customers smiling biggest smiles back as I do to them. And not one had called out the Avatar to question.
But this is not enough, for there is that one test of the tests, to come through as a genuine beautiful woman to the most critical eye of a tranny chaser, to them I say, kiss my beautiful plump GG ass!

And to all the girls who had lacked the strength and power as I had throughout my entire life. Set your goals for a beautiful, wholesome girl, despite the nagging's, half way decent's, settle for less as long as you ok's, just be you's, it is what it is's, NO, grasp the idea that impossible is just a measure of your own doubt, that miracles do happen and that unimaginable is quite imaginable if you really, REALLY want it and not waver!!!!!!

[ColleenA]

... as I have dig deep into psychology of human experience, I come to know that our feeling of self is based on internal as much as external. Because of such devotion to achieving womanhood, I was able to come a far, otherwise I would have settled for one tenth of that, being fine with achieving only partial status of obviously transgender person whom I am not!

I say that with utmost knowledge that I was in fact born a Woman, and not a transsexual and the need to arrive in absolute womanhood, of course I am speaking of visual clues and not chromosomal/genetic makeup. I am leaving transsexuality behind as it was a correctable birth defect.

Only when, in the midst of most critical opinion, will I be taken as a lesbian at the gay bar by a transsexuality expert :), will I then be whole. Call it perfectionist, obsessive, purist, or just plain stupid, as I call it just ME!


... I consider my self a post-transexuality survivor ... and all the time as I am being seen as a Genetic woman.


I live my life 24/7 in the real world experience being viewed and interacted by all and I mean all, as a genetic woman.


... that one test of the tests, to come through as a genuine beautiful woman to the most critical eye of a tranny chaser, to them I say, kiss my beautiful GG ass!


Inna, I have no problem with you wanting to live your life as an unhyphenated woman (i.e. drop the "trans"). As a general rule, people don't need to know anything about your past - just as most people have no need to know whether I was ever married before ("divorced" as opposed to "never been married" - why should it matter to most others?). And that's as it should be. I see no reason why people shouldn't accept you on your merits as you are today.

But I will take the hard line that it bothers me when I see you say, "I was in fact born a Woman, and not a transsexual," or describe your ass, no matter how beautiful, as GG. I have even seen in other posts you describe yourself as a natal woman.

As I say, you don't have to reveal private aspects of your life to people. You can even deny you have a TS past to others. But you are not, never have been, and never will be a chromosomally genetic girl (GG) or a natal (from birth) woman.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Inna, this is from your original post..

""But I do work and function in the world", I thought to my self, "and so far no one had brought this up against me, are they just very polite, they must be, mass delusion, where in stark reality, I am no better off then when I started".

Seems in any way one approaches the subject of trans, they are bound for devastating blows, just like this one, they seem like life lets go and comfort of serenity approaches, and then Wham!!! Bringing me back to my knees weeping tears of sorrow.

and looking at your last post, its a whole different story...true peace with yourself is not preconditioned on external things, in fact, i think true peace with yourself EXCLUDES external factors like an outing causing you to fall on your knees and weep...

if you are no better off than when you started how can you say you've achieved "true peace"...??

i don't beleive your last post..i just think you feel better now (which of course is good)

you are much better off from where you started but you are fooling yourself if you think that looking beautiful is what gives you true peace...

my unsolicited advice is similar to kelly's ...stop it...stop indulging in your inner dialogue about transsexuals and crossdressers....stop living as if being transsexual matters...

[Inna]

The only mistake I have made is to post highly emotional, slap in the face, hyper personal and in the sense intimate low of lows.

I wanted to connect through that event to put forth unobstructed truth, just as it felt. I have obviously been taken out of context on many fronts.

Who has the right to tell me, especially out of all the people in the world here, that I was NOT born a Woman, as I know, within medical science circles, Gender has proven to be in the brain and not the soft tissue.

As well, my conveying of emotional content when I do fall on my knees does not undermine my SELF wholeness!!!

Do you really think that strength in knowing of true self prevents from down fall????

Contrary, denial and numbness does that job perfectly, where serenity of knowing who I am, makes for connectivness to the emotional that much more sensitive.

Yes I am after beautiful, why not, and NO that will not make me whole, and where did anyone get idea that I was connecting beautiful with serene.
I merely stated that I want to achieve that last of lasts, that test of tests, where there are no more preconceived notions of my Gender, intrinsic or otherwise.

As I type this, the distance to transanything grows and connection with understanding widens, for better or worst, I am growing beyond the boundaries I once set. I shall do as I please without hurting or taking advantage of anyone, and with the biggest smile on my face.

[ColleenA]

Who has the right to tell me, especially out of all the people in the world here, that I was NOT born a Woman, as I know, within medical science circles, Gender has proven to be in the brain and not the soft tissue.


Inna, I never said you weren't born with the brain of a woman. I fully believe that, due to hormonal and probably other factors in the fetus's environment in the uterus, the brain development of a TS does not match their genetic sex. But I was talking about your genes, your chromosomes.

Who has the right? Well, for one, try joining the FAB forum here and see how far you get.

[Reallygood]

Stay true to yourself. Sometimes a little alone time can do miracles.

[melissaK]

Inna sweetie, I am again in awe of your passion. It is intense within you. You are a drink from a firehose.

As Kaitlyn advises I won't measure my happiness solely by my refelction in a mirror, anymore than I measure my unhappiness being a guy solely by my reflection, but they do matter, they are part of the equation. But for me to "leap into the dance of experience" I have to be prepared to be happy even if I "pass" as a woman in the eyes of no one. But, I am not settling for that.

And Inna, I get that you are at a different place in this climb out of the abyss of maleness we have been born into, that you have set your "rim" high. But failure to reach any rim any of us set for ourselves is always dishearting to hear. Do not think my comments, and perhaps those of others, that you should "not feel so bad" were meant to imply you should settle, or not strive for a new personal best. You just sounded so disappointed in your OP and I at least only wanted to offer support.

Although actually my OP in this thread was about you yourself warning there will be disapponintments along the way and maybe you shouldn't whine about that which you yourself warned of. But I see better now how passionate you are, and that your feelings are always deep and never hesitant. Not achieveing a goal for you would be as passionately disappointing as your passionate successes. So please forgive any remarks that imply that passion is misplaced or inappropriate.

Would that we could bottle that essence that infuses you and sip from it in our own climbs to our own rims. You remain an awesome woman and awesome contributor to my personal journey.