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Frédérique
01-15-2013, 05:35 PM
"Pride is the recognition of the fact that you are your own highest value and, like all of man’s values, it has to be earned." (Ayn Rand)

Man’s values? What if I don’t wish to bother “earning” that pride? :idontknow:

The people that you know and love – are they proud that you’re a crossdresser? I guess not, based on what I read from day to day in this section! You’re an individual, a non-conformist, a pioneer of sorts, an intrepid explorer, a gender-bender, a maverick, and the genuine article, but nobody seems to be proud to be associated with such an interesting person. Why is that?

Of course, as soon as you die (pardon me...pass away), you will be lauded for living your life according to your own precepts, blazing your own trail, defying convention, and being ORIGINAL, but right now you’re a deviant, a pervert, and someone not worth associating with. All this makes me wonder if PRIDE is not all it’s cracked up to be. I assume that if you give up your (MtF) crossdressing someday, and ritualistically burn your femme regalia in the backyard, i.e. purge everything, including your precious girly identity, you may hear someone say, “I’m PROUD of you!” forthwith. Do you actually want to hear this? Does it matter?

I guess people want to be proud of you, for one reason or another, so they try to influence your life now and then, or all the time. I assume that parents want the best for their children (in most cases), and make sure that their offspring get off to a good start, with the desired outcome being a kid they can truly be proud of, and they then can bask in the glow of it all. The emergence of crossdressing, a selfish enterprise to the unenlightened, must come as a shock, since it throws a monkey wrench into much-desired pride. How can someone be proud of a MtF crossdresser in their family? I’m sure it happens, but more often than not there will be a lot of misunderstanding and consternation – much gnashing of teeth and (perhaps) even a few howls of revulsion. Meanwhile, the boy must do what he has to do, appearing selfish in the extreme, and the entire family, an emotional house of cards built on pride, is highly disturbed...

When you’re proud you’re full of pride, and this USED to be a deadly sin. Nowadays, pride is an accepted, good thing, trotted out on all occasions by conformists to feel good about themselves, or superior to lesser beings. Personally, I can’t stand the word. It doesn’t sound right, or it makes the wrong connections in my perverted mind. PROUD sounds like an exclamation of superiority, the exact opposite of humble, and yet people will accept being humble now and then if they can keep their pride as well. If I say to someone, “Pride is a sin,” they will usually reply, “Well, I’m proud of my children!” and we're back to square one. This is an impenetrable barrier based on insecurity, and the MtF crossdresser will have to challenge the very nature of pride in a highly personal way...

Obviously, the crossdresser wants to feel pride from what he (she) does – you can make yourself feel good, while others are patently miserable, and you can either feel proud, like everyone else, or you can crucify pride and feel humbled through your deviant actions. If you look at the big picture, I don’t think pride is worth a plugged nickel, and yet it propels society, maintains barriers between one type of person and another, and it creates many, if not all, of the problems in the world. This is why pride, or being proud, was considered to be a sin way back when, but there’s been a lot of negotiation going on ever since Adam and Eve were expulsed from The Garden of Eden. It used to be that pride indicated an excessive love of self (sound familiar?), or a desire to be more attractive or important than others. The antonym of pride is humility, and the latter is something I actively strive for – wearing the “wrong” clothes certainly helps, since my “man values” shrink away, but as soon as I crossdress I am implored to feel PRIDE, according to the LGBT community...

Recently I read that PRIDE is something gay people have. A cute definition, to be sure. Since I’m a crossdresser, and allegedly TG, I’m expected to be proud about my search for humility! It doesn’t make any sense, which is probably why everyone in my family, as well as everyone in society, will breathe a huge sigh of relief when (if) I turn my back on crossdressing. Something MUST be wrong with me, and nobody will be proud of me unless I “fight back” against my so-called affliction. It ain’t gonna happen, so I guess nobody will ever be proud of me. That’s OK – I’m not at all comfortable with the word PROUD, never have been, and I never will be. It sounds like someone is standing over me, like a bully, and they are either going to raise me up (and subsequently lower me to their level), or they will impose their pride upon me in an obviously physical manner. I’m certainly not proud that I’m a crossdresser, or a societal deviant, but I am happy to be one, and happy to be unlike others. In my way of thinking, I had nothing to do with it (my genetic makeup, I mean), so there’s nothing to be proud of. If pride goeth before a fall, I’d rather fall and not lose anything, capiche?

If I ever met a boy who had an alleged “problem” with MtF crossdressing, I would be tempted to whisper in his ear, “I’m proud of you...” but I wouldn’t. I dislike pride. Better to leave the kid alone, to his own devices, and not interfere in any way. He’ll figure it out. Crossdressing can be a heavy load to bear for some people. Which reminds me - in Dante's Divine Comedy, the pride penitents were forced to walk with stone slabs bearing down on their backs to induce feelings of humility. By contrast, MtF crossdressing creates a transformative sense of lightness, and humility is created as a by-product, just so long as you’re not PROUD about it. I mean, who cares?

Humbly yours, Freddy

FYI, I used to live near Boston, MA, and the ubiquitous presence of a certain pro basketball team forever turned me off to the word PRIDE…:doh:

Are you proud of your crossdressing? Do you care if others are proud of you (or not)? :thinking:

Rogina B
01-15-2013, 05:55 PM
I am proud that I do as I want.I am proud that I am not a cowardly sheep looking to follow a leader down a common path. More than one UU church member has said they were proud to have a TG along with them[LGBTQ function]and amongst them[church].As far as family goes,there will be pride that "I did it my way"..after I'm gone..

mikiSJ
01-15-2013, 06:19 PM
Pride is an inwardly directed emotion that carries two common meanings. With a negative connotation, pride refers to an inflated sense of one's personal status or accomplishments, often used synonymously with hubris. With a positive connotation, pride refers to a satisfied sense of attachment toward one's own or another's choices and actions, or toward a whole group of people, and is a product of praise, independent self-reflection, or a fulfilled feeling of belonging. (from wikipedia)

Some CDers border on a narcissistic personalty and the first definition would/could be appropriate.

The second definition is what, I believe, most of us would want to ascribe to; a sense of attachment to your own self of what you are as a crossdresser, and possibly acceptance by others..

I have dressed for 60 years, and while I never had a guilt about dressing, I was not able to show myself off; dress and in manner I wanted to present. I am not sure I would use the term pride, but I certainly achieved some feeling of attachment as I came out of the closet and dressed for a River City Gems group meeting last Saturday. Of course, the group shares a common bond, dressing, but it is a group that welcomed me heartily. Pride, not sure of, but am I now pleased that I got out and showed off Miki - yep!

kimdl93
01-15-2013, 07:05 PM
I've always had a problem with saying 'I'm proud of you'. It feels to me as if the stamens in some way makes a claim of achievement...what ever it is that the person has done that merits the statement. I am more likely to say 'I admire what you've accomplished' or ' I hope you are proud of your achievement.'

Kate Simmons
01-15-2013, 07:13 PM
Not in the least Freddy. I know who and what I am and don't need to prove anything to anyone. If no one else is on board with that, it's their problem, not mine.:battingeyelashes::)

Jorja
01-15-2013, 07:46 PM
Back in the day, when I first came out and announced my intentions to transition, I got a very ice cold reception from everyone. They would purposely avoid me, talk behind my back and frequently to my face as if I weren't there. They would call the police because I simply walked to my own door. They lied, cheated, and even beat me. Yes, it hurt deeply. I made a promise to myself after that. I promised myself that each and every person in attendance at my coming out speech would one day be proud of me. I took no special steps to accomplish this feat. I was just going to be me. With in a few months they started coming around one by one. It has taken me thirty years (two years for all but one person) to accomplish but today I can say each and every one of those people are proud to know me.

You see, they were wrong all those years ago. They have to admit it to themselves everytime they see me.

LaraPeterson
01-15-2013, 07:52 PM
I admire Ayn Rand for her tenacity and drive. I don't particularly care for her objectivism for it is that very philosophical stream that causes much of the consternation you are writing about. No man (person) is an end unto themselves as that philosophy holds. Humans are wired for community. In community there is a perceived and hopefully realized need for interaction. Unfortunately, when two persons are interacting and an opinion is sought, at least three will surface.

Those very opinions or observations are the very issues that cause pride to rise and fall. In other words, whether we like it or not, what other people think about us is important to us even if we do not want to admit it. If we find that others are satisfied with our conduct, we may feel good about ourselves and pride rises. The opposite is true when we are not well received.

This is the very struggle that most all of us who are CD/TG/TS face. We really do care about what others think about us but we often cannot discuss those matters with the ones who mean the most to us for fear of rejection. So, we deny the need and suffer the depression.

I personally do not like pride, especially in myself--because when I get prideful, I generally get sarcastic. Putting someone down is ALWAYS putting yourself above them and that is the worst kind of pride, of which I am sometimes guilty.

I could say much more about pride but I do not believe it would be well-received or received at all by many here, especially the moderators because it would delve into the depths of the issue that you cited in mentioning the Garden of Eden. That is exactly where the mess started. It has gone steadily downhill ever sense.

Once again Freddy, thanks; I just want to twirl and smile and be accepted. Probably ain't gonna happen.

Angela Campbell
01-15-2013, 07:53 PM
I've always had a problem with saying 'I'm proud of you'. It feels to me as if the stamens in some way makes a claim of achievement...what ever it is that the person has done that merits the statement. I am more likely to say 'I admire what you've accomplished' or ' I hope you are proud of your achievement.'

What I got mostly from my parents and teachers was more like "well....are you proud of yourself?" I usually was not.

SandraInHose
01-15-2013, 07:53 PM
I personally am so sick and tired of EVERY demographic group telling me how 'proud' they are of themselves, that the word doesn't mean as much anymore.
I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to say it to me because I crossdress! LOL

Rogina B
01-15-2013, 11:35 PM
Jorja sure has all the right reasons to feel proud! Wow,a job well done...and still going on for a long time to come..Keep up the good work!

docrobbysherry
01-15-2013, 11:47 PM
I always wanted my dad to be proud of me. When I was young, he wasn't.

When I finally became successful in business, I developed what they call self esteem. It was AFTER THAT that my father was proud of me! I've pretty much never cared what others thot of me. I'm proud of what I've done, with few or no regrets.

He passed before I began dressing. Good thing. It would have killed him!

Now saying, "I'm proud of u", to my daughter? I hope to one day-----

Michelle M
01-16-2013, 12:31 AM
Frédérique,

I wish I were capable of stating this so eloquently as you, and I agree completely.

I am not proud of crossdressing, or any of the other things I do. I try very hard, and these things that I am and that I do are bits of me that rub-off onto the skin of this world; Well received or not. I pass when possible, to avoid confrontation, and I've become increasingly less interested in educating those with closed minds (predetermined reaction to external stimuli). My goals are my own and I don't crave recognition or encourage discrimination.

I think pride, in essence, is covetous; "king of the mountain", "is your Hummer a brighter yellow than my bright yellow Hummer?". Perhaps jealousy preempted?

I have met this young man with a "problem" on several occasions. One of them took my daughter to the homecoming dance and that was OK. In each case I was cordial and certainly headed off any derogatory comments. As you stated, each has a long road ahead of him; although this generation may cast-off the stone slabs in favor of ipods & facebook (perhaps every bit as heavy a burden?) Are these another new face of pride?

I will do my best to remain humble,

Michelle

NathalieX66
01-16-2013, 12:38 AM
I'm happy to be me.

Sometimes I go out dressed as female, dresses/skirts and heels, and all.

The feeling is not "pride", but "satisfaction". ....I am what I am.

I love, love, LOVE sushi!....do you care? Probably not.

I only feel pride when I accomplished something.

bridget thronton
01-16-2013, 10:07 AM
I guess I just want to be a person people enjoy talking to (I can be arrogant it if start being "proud of myself")

Ann Louise
01-16-2013, 12:18 PM
This discussion of "pride" is so very thoughtful, and it brings to mind an ancient teaching that the following four pairs of yearnings ("Vicissitudes") are what can keep us trapped in a continuous cycle of unhappiness throughout our lives:

1. Fame and Disgrace
2. Praise and Blame
3. Loss and Gain
4. Joy and Suffering

It is said that if our lives are founded upon a grasping for, or an avoidance of these eight elements, we will be caught in an endless cycle of grasping for, and avoidance of them for as long as we live. A personal goal of mine is to be mindful of being caught up in any of these vicissitudes as soon as I possibly can, and returning to my life in this present moment. It's a very simple concept that is exceedingly difficult to do, but achieving the "middle way" gets easier and easier with practice.

Please consider this, and hugs to you all, Elfin

Beverley Sims
01-16-2013, 12:30 PM
Frédérique,
You are over thinking again.
Pride for me is achieving some goal that has taken a long time.
For me traveling around the world, helping people in difficulties and a number of difficult goals in life make me feel proud.
I pride myself in doing some things professionally and not on a shoddy manner.
As for CD and gay pride this fits under another umbrella completely.
I am proud that I could pose as a woman successfully years ago, again that was an achievement.
That is my definition of pride.

bobbimo
01-17-2013, 09:34 AM
Well the answer has to be yes and no.
When I spend an hour in the bath plucking, styling, dabbing and stroking, then the clothes go on and then the last touch is the earrings. If I go to the jewelry box to get a pair then come back to the mirror and see a beautiful woman looking back at me then I am very proud of what I have done. Its amazing.
If I think of what would happen if that same beautiful woman walked down stairs to find all her children and grand children there. (they dont know about Bobbi). The pride would be quickly replaced with shame and fear.
Other things like building my house, single handed is something always to be proud of, Taking a wreck of a car and turning it into a gem is something to be proud of too.
So pride is an objective term for sure.
Here is an exercise that's worth doing.. write your own obituary/eulogy..
As the author of the obit you need to act as your best friend that knows all the things you have done and felt through your entire life, and then you write about all the things that the "dead" you has done with their life.
When your done see if its something you would publish in the paper or tack on your tombstone for the rest of the world to remember you by.
Is it worth anything.. only you can be the judge.
Bobbi