Are there enough of us?

[Ashley D.]

This is aiming at TS that have are or will transition.

Ok so we all want basic rights and respect.
The only way it can happen is to make noise
(the squeaky wheel gets oiled)
But are there enough of us willing to do that.

[Laura_Stephens]

100 years from now - Yes.

Now - No.

[I Am Paula]

I can't remember the origin of the quote. (M. Luther King maybe?) We don't want more rights than anybody else, we just want the same rights as anybody else.
The 20/20 piece with Barbara walters last night, about TS 11 year old Jazz, made me feel we are making progress, then the part about her getting death threats saddened me greatly.-Celeste

[Deborah_UK]

I always find this question to be a difficult one to respond to.

Do you always want to be Trans? If so then storm the barricades and always be known as Trans but as a woman I'd rather fight for women's rights.

While transitioning, then yes I don't want to be discriminated against, and I think I'm lucky to live in the UK where Transwomen have pushed back at government and whereas in 1997 you could be sacked just for being trans, now that's illegal (as just one example)

Having transitioned at work I'll always be known as a transsexual, and so have got involved in the Civil Service trans group to try and make things better for those that follow, and on here will try and give my experiences, even though a few vociferous ones don't accept my experiences as valid as theirs.

Outside of work I'm just another woman going about her business, so tbh I don't want to live my life as a transwoman , I want the same rights as any other woman.

And I guess the question in the OP will depend on those happy to remain in the trans spectrum, I'm afraid I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines.

[ColleenA]

Do you always want to be Trans? If so then storm the barricades and always be known as Trans but as a woman I'd rather fight for women's rights.

... tbh I don't want to live my life as a transwoman , I want the same rights as any other woman.

And I guess the question in the OP will depend on those happy to remain in the trans spectrum, I'm afraid I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines.

Even in high school, my BFF was interested in social justice for all. She also knew clearly that she was female, no matter how her body belied that truth. For these reasons, it bothered her that her fellow classmates didn't want her joining them in supporting women's issues.

Now, seven years post-transition, the greater portion of her activism is spent on issues and rights for all women, but she does not shy away from being an activist for TSs as well as on LGBT issues at large.

[Rianna Humble]

Do you always want to be Trans? If so then storm the barricades and always be known as Trans but as a woman I'd rather fight for women's rights.

I often see this sort of comment, but to me it is a false dichotomy. You don't have to be a woman living in India to campaign against the lax attitude to rape in that country. You don't have to be a Ghanaian cocoa grower to campaign for better living conditions for them. So what makes you think you have to be an "out" transsexual to campaign for trans* rights?

If campaigning for trans equality marks one out as being trans, how come the last Government passed laws protecting our rights when there are no trans members of parliament in this country?

In my case, I have no choice, my story was mis-told in the gutter press and those mis-tellings went global, so I will forever be marked out as TS wherever I go, but that won't stop me campaigning for rights for all the LGBT communities or for other women.

[ChelseaEcho]

*puts on cultural historian hat*

Normalization is always a major factor, but normalization sucks. It's far less "heroic" then demanding your rights, but the way things work, at least in the modern United States, is that to win over the "mainstream" viewpoint of the country you have to look non-threatening and put upon. That's essentially how the gay rights struggle was won in the US. Really, really good PR. You had religious opposition saying "Well, look at the decadence of the gay community!" but the gay folks most people saw were those in their own suburban neighborhoods or small towns. They saw folks who contributed to their community, went to work, had great kids, and didn't make any real fuss about things. And that's when people begin to wonder what all the debate is about. Add in a few dashes of real, honest tragedy where innocent lives are destroyed and you begin to sway people.

That's not to say it'll be easy. Even though their political win is inevitable the battle of gay rights is going to continue for decades, and the gay community has a few advantages the transgender community doesn't -- namely a lot of people in powerful positions and the fact that so many of us blend back into the community at large right now. Maybe we have a few closeted politicos, but I'm not overly optimistic. Our advantage is going to be the fact that, at least in the United States, the pendulum is swinging back to the left. Whatever your political affiliations it's hard to deny that the younger generations are decidedly socially liberal, and that is a major advantage as they grow older and become regular voters.

The big thing is going to be that normalization combined with activism. Activists will never accept normalization -- and for good reasons -- because that means you're essentially surrendering your rights to mainstream dissection and approval. However, activists matter because they're always pushing, agitating, and keeping the issue at the forefront. They're the ones who endure the inevitable blowback, get thrown under the bus in an attempt to contain the "most outrageous and unacceptable," get up, dust themselves off, and jump back into the fray.

So, in short, it'll happen, but it will be as ugly and tragic as every other civil rights fight the US has seen. Definitely worth the fight, though.

[Deborah_UK]

I often see this sort of comment, but to me it is a false dichotomy. You don't have to be a woman living in India to campaign against the lax attitude to rape in that country. You don't have to be a Ghanaian cocoa grower to campaign for better living conditions for them. So what makes you think you have to be an "out" transsexual to campaign for trans* rights?

If campaigning for trans equality marks one out as being trans, how come the last Government passed laws protecting our rights when there are no trans members of parliament in this country?

In my case, I have no choice, my story was mis-told in the gutter press and those mis-tellings went global, so I will forever be marked out as TS wherever I go, but that won't stop me campaigning for rights for all the LGBT communities or for other women.

Rianna - if you'd taken note of my whole post, you'll have seen that I AM involved in Trans issues at work, because I will always be seen as Trans at work, but away from work I do not want to bring unneccesary (and unwanted) attention on my private life.

Sadly for you, you had no choice in the matter and I have nothing but admiration for those of us that do put themselves out there, without them we wouldn't have the hard won rights that we have now. A colleague of mine who was a prime mover within the workplace for Trans issues has now retired, she was recently asked to give a couple of talks on Trans issues, but she politely declined, saying it was time for her to get on with the life she envisaged years ago.

[Kathryn Martin]

I have rights, respect and protection as a woman. It's enough for me. Why would I make noise?

[Traci Elizabeth]

This is aiming at TS that have are or will transition.

Ok so we all want basic rights and respect.
The only way it can happen is to make noise
(the squeaky wheel gets oiled)
But are there enough of us willing to do that.


I totally disagree!

Why?

Because those who are transitioning are metamorphosing from male to female. Once transition is complete, we/me are then "women." I don't know a single ex-TS woman who wants to be known as anything other than simply being a woman. They/me want to just go about living our lives happily as the full woman we were meant to be from birth. We/me do not want pre or post-SRS labels sticking to them.

I know that is how I am living my life - simply a "woman" like any other non-reproductive woman. I am not trans anything anymore no matter what you say or think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[arbon]

All the crap I had to go through with my job the last two years over my transition was not a bit fun so I support what the advocates do in trying to make things better - hopefully attitudes keep changing and it gets easier for others.

[Gretchen_To_Be]

So for those of us who want to support the cause without being outwardly, publicly identified as CDs, what can we do? Here is my dilemma--TGs deserve and need our support because they have the courage and commitment to live as women, but what about CDs? We are not visible. How do we change societal attitudes to show this is not a "perversion", that we are not all gay or want to become women?

[Nigella]

Shibumi, this thread and its location is about TS's not CDs.

IMHO unless you have to get involved in TS issues, then why should you draw attention to yourself. The majority of TSs just want to go quietly into the realm of being a woman. Some have no choice, their "status" as TS is thrust upon them by circumstances. Those individuals have, unless they want to lose all contact with their past life, no option but to accept that label.

[arbon]

So for those of us who want to support the cause without being outwardly, publicly identified as CDs, what can we do? Here is my dilemma--TGs deserve and need our support because they have the courage and commitment to live as women, but what about CDs? We are not visible. How do we change societal attitudes to show this is not a "perversion", that we are not all gay or want to become women?

Well it is easy to support human rights and anti discrimination in all sorts of ways, does not matter what you are. If there anti-discrimination laws being proposed in area you can support those efforts by writing to lawmakers, or you can make contributions to organizations like glaad and the aclu - those are just a couple ideas.

[melissaK]

I am appalled at many responses.

We have a sky high suicide rate in our group BECAUSE of pervasive social rejection.

Not all of us get to cross the gender divide and blend into the crowd. Those that are discovered suffer hate crimes.

Sure theres' protection in laws, but there is not general acceptance in the population. That will end faster if those of us who are TG/TS/GQ can stay a little active and visible.

I have been deeply closeted in a male dominated profession and I certainly have my sense of shame and guilt, but I have always spoken up when prejudice rears its ugly head. And like all of us, at home and among my family tolerance is taught and practiced. My family has members of multiple races and genders and no one is ever excluded for those reasons. But really its not enough.

Over the years I represented the Lesbian bar in my town. I represented the Gay newspaper publisher. And I ate more billable time than I ever told them I did. And I won their cases.

We don't have to be Kate Bornstein, but at a minimum we have to have the courage to join some advocacy group like Human Rights Council and kick in a few bucks, and add our names to a membership role.

I'll get down off my sopa box now.

[ChelseaEcho]

I agree and disagree with you, Melissa.

On one hand it's hard to ignore the fact that those who are able to blend back into society are leaving behind those who can't or don't have the resources or opportunities to do so. I referenced the gay rights movement before, and I'll stick with that since it applies. It's easier to be an upper middle class gay man and talking about getting on with your life now. Much easier then being the young, gay teen thrown out by your parents and/or put upon by a society that really isn't all that accepting if you can't afford to cover your ass.

At the same time it's hard not to be sympathetic to those who just want a little peace. I can't be critical of that even if I doubt I'll ever be able to find myself in that position. I'm a naturally restless person, though.

That all said, there's definitely things that can be done, even in secret. Those have been covered here, so I'll just say that it's something I think it's something most should consider.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

nobody can tell me what to do..
unless you've transitioned and are living your life that way, there is no way to explain it to you.

we all have different personalities... the best way to live your life is the way you want it...if that's as a quiet woman or a big time activist woman ...its up to you...how dare anyone say differently?

being transsexual puts a person on the outside...when i say outside , i mean the outside of everything...but if you transition by this very act you are showing the world that its ok...if you transition WELL everyone around you becomes a convert..and hopefully they quietly or loudly support in those moments when we are not around and people dismiss or dehumanize us..

no speech, no law, no tv show or movie is going to move the needle much when it comes to our place in the world..laws that protect us are neccessary at a bare minimum...but think of that for a second...we need a freaking law to stop people from treating us the way they want to!!!...it doesnt change anything about how people feel and i'm sure it often pisses people off... there are ways around laws...and the laws that protect us enrich lawyers and human resource professionals as much as they enrich us...there is no law to protect us from being ignored and kept at bay in the workplace..laws FORCE people to TOLERATE us...they do nothing to have people embrace us..(i don't like "accept" us...)

if you don't know a transsexual (most people dont), you just don't care... there are many many things in the world that i don't have time to care about..same goes for everybody else...

i'm not saying do nothing..i'm saying live your life. the life you want, how you want to live...we really don't just disappear..even in stealth we demonstrate our viabllity and goodness to those in our pasts...
When we touch people in a good way, even by moving on with dignity, everybody after us wins.

if you desire attention, or if you have a big mother teresa mentality then its going to be natural for you...go for it...i can't compete with the Donna Rose's of the world...she loves this stuff, she makes a buck off it...she is a big big deal and is good for all us...
but think of mother teresa...is her example not the epitamy of selflessness and doing for others? why isn't there a question about why every single one of isn't a mother teresa figure? surely that is the right way to live a life??

[kellycan27]

Kaitlyn Michele

Spot on! I think you've just about said it all.

[melissaK]

And I want to get back on my soap box and add take back a few words I said in my last soap box speech.

The girls in this forum all minister to our own, working to help right the hardships and difficulty of being TS, with immeasurable sympathy and compassion, for no monetary reward. I see that as a form of giving right up there with Mother Teresa. And I see those actions as staying involved and making a difference.

I apologize for my rudeness to each of you. I didn't think it through enough.

Thanks for being there, all of you.

[jennifer24]

We have come along way over time, we might not totally be there yet but we are progressing and someday we will have the same rights, the more noise we make the better it will get.

[ChelseaErtel]

I totally disagree!

Why?

Because those who are transitioning are metamorphosing from male to female. Once transition is complete, we/me are then "women." I don't know a single ex-TS woman who wants to be known as anything other than simply being a woman. They/me want to just go about living our lives happily as the full woman we were meant to be from birth. We/me do not want pre or post-SRS labels sticking to them.

I know that is how I am living my life - simply a "woman" like any other non-reproductive woman. I am not trans anything anymore no matter what you say or think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you Traci, 100%.

[morgan51]

Its still just attraction not promotion. By living well people that know me see and accept ther will always be a few that can't or won't my family for the most part. I'm sure we have a long way to go. I'm happy presenting my outside to match my inside in the mean time. I'm truly just a woman nothing less or more. I don't wish for any other designation. Living well is the best advocate. That doen't mean I shouldn't write lawmakers or speak out against discrimination.