Saddened by Intolerance

[SAMANN]

I have noticied some remarks in a couple of different posts lately that have saddened me. We all face discrimination and hate speech from those that don't, can't or won't understand us. We have the right and this is a safe place to vent our frustration and anger over those issues. What I don't understand is when I see remarks along the lines of "they don't have the right to that opinion or belief" (paraphrasing) this is patently untrue we all have the right to our own opinions and beleifs. We even have the right to express our disagreement with the expressed opinion. I have found that when I do that politely it can end up in a dialogue where we both come away with something to think about.

What we don't have the right to do is to force our opinion, or beleifs on another. As a christian (Gasp yes I am a christian) I see to many people who try to force their beleifs on others. I prefer to follow the simple basics of the faith that include
1. Love the lord your god with all your heart.
2. Even more important love your neighbor as you would yourself
3. Judge not lest you be judged
4. I Worry about that 4x4 in my own eye before I worry about that speck in your eye.

So when I see my sisters telling others that they don't have a right to their opinion It saddens me because it tells me that we are no better perhaps worse than those who find fault with us and our lifestyle. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree with those who don't agree with us and our lifestyle. In the long term their opinion does not mean much to us and it does not change how we feel about ourselves and our futures.

So please lets practice what we preach TOLERANCE for opinions that we don't personally agree with.

[GaleWarning]

I don't claim to read every post on this forum, but it has been quite a while since I last saw a really nasty altercation on any thread. Differences of opinion are to be expected, I think, especially if one considers the large number of members and the width of the CDing spectrum here.

I haven't seen anyone trying to force their opinion on anyone else just lately. I have seen many different points of view being offered; some cogently and persuasively, others not so much.

Also, we have an excellent group of moderators on the forum who do a wonderful job of keeping us in line.

I believe you will moderate your opinion, SAMANN, the longer you stay with us and the more you read. A belated welcome to the forum from me.

[Lady Catherine]

I take offense in your opinion of my opinion in the matter of opinions on this opinionated forum.

Just kidding Sam.

I feel ya. I guess some people are just more opinionated then others.

Peace, my friend.

[Lorileah]

Which forum are you speaking of? I have not seen any posts they say you don't have the right to an opinion or that someone's opinion is inherently wrong. There are heated debates frequently but that is part of the site. If everyone agreed it would be nothing but panty threads. As a group we will never agree on anything but we learn from one another

[Leanne2]

I agree. I haven't seen any nasty posts or replies in a long time; kudos to our moderators. But then, I don't read them all. Be more specific Sam. And welcome to our site. Leanne

[andrea lace]

Lady Catherine, I love your opinion on the opinion that was given by opinionated people on there opinions. My wife and I were in hysterics

[ReluctantDebutant]

I believe I have just read one of those remarks in another post. There seems to be an idea out there that just becuase we here all part of the CD/TG community means that we should be in lock step with everything else in life. ANd if you are not then you don't belong. I have found in life that the people who scream for tolerance the most just want tolerance for their own world view. While practicing true tolerance is be kind and accepting of people with whom you disagree.

[Wildaboutheels]

There is no right or wrong way to CD. Some here are never going to "get it".

And certainly, EVERYone is entitled to their own opinion. The trouble is, most people seem to believe that ALL opinions are created equal.

The truth of the matter is that they aren't.

The trouble arises because many might base their opinions on nothing more than speculation, conjecture or inuendo. Or possibly because they read ONE article from ONE source. Others ... might base their own opinion on years of experience on/in the subject matter in question and/or dozens of articles from dozens of sources over many months or years.

As far as Forums... Very few people will read more than a few lines of any OP before posting a response. Some won't even bother to read beyond the Q box. Or if they do, might take gargantuan leaps of faith in reading between the lines. It's all too obvious when one reads entire questions plus all the responses. That's simply SOP for every Forum I have ever participated in with a certain motorcycle Forum being the rare exception.

Such is the nature of the average Forum beast. Thankfully there are sharp cookies at every Forum which usually make all the digging worthwhile.

As far as 2 people going back and forth in a Forum Q? Personally I find it a bit silly, no matter the Forum. It's extremely rare for anyone to EVER change their mind/admit they were wrong/probably badly MISread what someone posted or most importantly, apologize. In over 10 years at various Forums, I have rarely seen it.

[Lady Catherine]

Lady Catherine, I love your opinion on the opinion that was given by opinionated people on there opinions. My wife and I were in hysterics

Glad I could make SOMEONE laugh. That IS what I intended. Unless you're too opinionated on the opinions of those whose opinions you don't care about giving your opininion on, it should have been funny....In my opinion...

[Angela Campbell]

Intolerance is everywhere. I have seen it all of my life and it will never go away. What makes me wonder is when someone claims "hate speech" or something like that when someone does not agree with them. I never understood that. Opinions don't matter to anyone with the exception of their own. How boring would it be if we all agreed? It would be like living with Chip and Dale (cartoon)

[flatlander_48]

The problem is NOT having opinions. Rather, the problem is believing that when others hear YOUR opinion, they will realize the error in their ways. Unless there is one of us that has no ego, I would say that we all don't see how anyone could hold an opinion contrary to our own. However, most of us can't bear to keep our opinions to ourselves. And that's where, as the English say, it all goes pear-shaped...

[Michelle M]

We are a group of non-conformists. No one here who regularly exhibited the negativity or dominance you describe would last long, or garner much respect from our small community. We may have many many different views, but we have much larger common interests. And remember, tolerance is reciprocal - we should expect no more than we are willing to offer. If someone's opinion is that my opinion doesn't matter, well ...that's their opinion. Let them have it, I just don't want to socialize with that person.

Sometimes people here will offer constructive criticism, or may challenge an opinion. This is usually a healthy exercise because sometimes our personal opinions should be challenged, if only for each of us to determine if we still feel that way or have simply become accustomed to these opinions. But we all have different social skills and sometimes a challenge might sound like a put-down. I've been guilty of this. I start to think way ahead, and forget to respect someone's feelings when responding to an opinion. No harm meant, but it can come across as domineering or intolerant.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.
Michelle

[Beverley Sims]

I agree intolerance is sad and when someone wants to push their opinion I will find something plausible to say and bow out.
That is about all you can do state your case without being inflammatory.

Occasionally there are spiteful comments in a post but the mods seem to put a lid on it quickly.
There was a recent cat-fight in one of the forums that lasted four or five rounds

The end result....
THREAD CLOSED.

[Asche]

I've run into some intolerance here.

I'm what you might call an "unorthodox" (heterodox :) ) CDer, and there are some OTW (One True Way) CDers here who feel the need to defend orthodoxy against us heretics. At one point, when I mentioned one unorthodox aspect of my presentation, I got some rather nasty responses.

The mods nailed that thread and a few similar ones down pretty quickly, and I haven't seen anything that bad since, but it's not something you forget quickly. And there are still comments on various threads that indicate that the disapproval hasn't gone away, the OTW-ers have just learned to be more polite about it.

[MsRenee]

Ive yet to see a post here since Ive joined last year.
Kinda the reason I decided to join as everyone here is so helpful and easy going as myself.
Theres enough drama out there and its nice to see it not in here.
Hugs n Kisses to all the girls here.
Renee

[Frédérique]

I have noticed some remarks in a couple of different posts lately that have saddened me.

Did I miss something? :idontknow:

Just because people crossdress, it doesn’t make them some kind of perfect being, incapable of spitting out prejudice at the slightest pretext. I spend a lot of time choosing words that will not offend anyone, and I am offended when anyone takes offense at my alleged offensiveness. I’m here to smooth feathers, not ruffle them...

Referencing your Christian precepts as outlined in the OP, I think it’s better to love yourself, rather than deflect that self-sustaining love towards an imaginary direction, and go from there. In other words, you have to be responsible for how you feel, what you say, and what you write, and not use invisible scaffolding to cover up the truth. At the end of the day, whatever saddens you is the province of your soul, and you, alone, WILL know how to deal with it. Life is full of sadness, especially if you choose to NOT love your “self.” If that sounds holier-than-thou you may call me Oprah, but I think it's important to look inwardly...

[darla_g]

Samann I agree with your desire for tolerance especially within this community. Acceptance and tolerance should be the hallmarks of this site.

This is undoubtedly a diverse group. There are M2F crossdressers that may dress up once in a blue moon or only adopt a single article of clothing or people that dress up all the time and are fully in the public eye day after day. There are women that may desire to present as men. There is also a contingent of members that are further along the continuum and desire to change their gender identity. and there are others that are SOs of people in one of these first groups and still more that might not identify with any of those circumstances. It just doesn't matter. No one group is any more or any less of a crossdresser than any other.

I came to this web site over 5 years ago to hope to learn why I do the things I do and eventually came to the conclusion that I was no closer to learning and frankly it just doesn't matter. I do what I do and I am comfortable with it. My behavior doesn't effect anyone but myself, is not harmful, illegal or immoral.

The only forms of intolerance I have observed in all that time on this site is when people attempt tell someone else what their opinion is or should be. We are all entitled to our opinions except when those opinions infringe on someone else. What I have observed recently and really makes me bristle is when people attempt to denigrate someone else's experience when crossdressing, by using pejorative terms like being closeted, or it being hobby or afraid of being dressed in front of the family dog. No one can claim to have moral superiority when discussing someone else.

Crossdressing is an intensely person experience and no one's comfort zone is the same as anyone else's and sometimes it is imperative to maintain anonymity because it is not an activity that is fully blessed by society today. In some professions someone could potentially lose their job if it were known. So tolerance here is not only expected, it is somewhat sacred. This is supposed to be about support and celebration of a common interest.

[flatlander_48]

As much as people here rail against the notion of labels, we all have to realize it that this is what brings us together. After all, the site is CrossDressers.com. It's not CrossDressersAndMarlboroManImpersonators.com. I would also hope that it means that if there is a place where one could find support, counsel and comisuration in general, THIS would be it. Unfortunately, the reality is that we all bring our baggage with us. It is what we humans do. It would be nice if we could all check our baggage in lockers at the door when we visit. It might make life a bit more peaceful. We all have more than enough issues to go around without getting hassled within this oasis...


In some professions someone could potentially lose their job if it were known. So tolerance here is not only expected, it is somewhat sacred. This is supposed to be about support and celebration of a common interest.

Further, in the US there's something like 47 states in which you can be fired from your job because you are, or perceived to be, gay. It is a frequent topic of concern here about how society at large believes all crossdressers are gay. Obviously we know that isn't the case, but it is very difficult to change public opinion for something like this. As an alternative, it would he helpful if we, the crossdressing community (or the T in LGBT if you prefer), supported ENDA (Employee Non-Discrimination Act) legislation if your home state doesn't already have it.

I believe the heterosexual crossdressers among us think their straightness will protect them. As I said, unfortunately society doesn't make that distinction.

[suzy1]

I got really angry at a post the other day. I won’t say who the poster was, that would be wrong. Other members told me they felt the same way. It was a very important subject too!

So I did tell them what I thought of there post in a P.M. I think that was the right thing to do, not post it in the forum. [She gave as good as she got though and I asked for it]:eek:

[flatlander_48]

I got really angry at a post the other day. I won’t say who the poster was, that would be wrong. Other members told me they felt the same way. It was a very important subject too!

So I did tell them what I thought of there post in a P.M. I think that was the right thing to do, not post it in the forum. [She gave as good as she got though and I asked for it]:eek:

Well, that explains that twitch on the Richter Scale...