How many transition?

[ReneeT]

This is really a rhetorical question. I read a lot of posts lately from people who seemed to arrive here because their desire/ need to dress in feminine attire has become overwhelming. It is my understanding, and belief, that an overwhelming desire to crossdress is not diagnostic of a transexual ( this is a transexual forum, where i am seeing more of these posts). So i wonder about several things: how many of these people seek professional help to sort out there issues? How many actually proceed to transition to a full-time life in the gender not assigned to them, or at least take significant, active steps towards that end? How many would have these thoughts if they weren't centered around attire? My guesses to these questions are not many, not many, not many.

Which brings me to my next question (and for those of you that know me, i typically introduce a bit of controversy in my posts): would this population be better served by a separate "community" dedicated to those who love to crossdress and therefore think they might be trans? The converse of that is that transexual "communities" would better serve those who actually are trans. I, of course, know that this is a rhetorical question too. The balance of this forum has definately shifted to the "i think i am trans" and away from "i am trans so what do i do about it"

[sandra-leigh]

I agree that we need to review the purpose of this section as needs do seem to have changed.

[JohnH]

Which brings me to my next question (and for those of you that know me, i typically introduce a bit of controversy in my posts): would this population be better served by a separate "community" dedicated to those who love to crossdress and therefore think they might be trans? The converse of that is that transexual "communities" would better serve those who actually are trans. I, of course, know that this is a rhetorical question too. The balance of this forum has definately shifted to the "i think i am trans" and away from "i am trans so what do i do about it"

By "communities" do you mean participants of crossdressers.com or communities as a subset of the society of the whole general population?

I really think society would be better served if "crossdressing" without being transgendered could simply be considered alternate clothes and grooming for men, the same as how men's clothing and grooming standards (except for facial hair of course) are considered acceptable for women. In the 1930's and before boys wore dresses and some wore Mary Jane shoes and had long hair, which was completely acceptable.

And why does a man who has breasts and wears women's clothing have to "pass" as a woman as far as speech, etc. ?

John

[arbon]

would this population be better served by a separate "community" dedicated to those who love to crossdress and therefore think they might be trans?

for those that think they might be trans a lot of times people are confused and just trying to work out what they are. Being able to come here and ask questions and get feedback is probably useful to many.


The converse of that is that transexual "communities" would better serve those who actually are trans.

We have safe haven which does not get a lot of activity.

[ReneeT]

for those that think they might be trans a lot of times people are confused and just trying to work out what they are. Being able to come here and ask questions and get feedback is probably useful to many.



We have safe haven which does not get a lot of activity.

Fair points. To the first, i agree that this forum probably benefits those who are uncertain, confused, etc. However, providing a forum that meets the needs of all is not likely to meet any of them well. The result is a superficial, "feel-good" environment that lacks depth. To the second, it takes more than a space to meet. It requires partnership of those who control the space . No more to add on that

[Kaitlyn Michele]

forum activity ebbs and flows..that's all..we had some activity recently that caused alot of transitioners to leave..that's the way it goes...i've felt like leaving more than once, but its like Al Pacino in godfatherIII up in here!!!

as long as people are honest in their descriptions of their lives, i think all are welcome..

one problem that can be sorted with communication is when people that are crossdressers come here, give advice or opinions and don't realize that being transsexual is a totally different thing...
if you are a cd and you don't make that abundantly clear, its no different than posting on the yahoo women's forum as a woman and giving advice to the women there..

if you are struggling with what you are, this seems like a perfect place to get opinions, but it can be counterproductive if people are implying they something they are not.....the practical answer is consistent posting with honesty and directness..

John, your comment is a good example and thank you for your honest comment
...clearly your comment has nothing at all to do with transsexual issues, but you make your perspective clear and so people can hear your POV and feel good that they understand what you are saying...you have consistently talked about this over lots of posts, and to me that's effective communication no matter what the forum is...

its not about policing content as much as it is about communicating better

[I Am Paula]

I can seeing it breaking down until the rules state you must style your hair a certain way, or you're not one of us. If you don't Blah blah...you're not one of us. You're not a true so and so if you don't... We need LESS categories, not more.
I'm 100% woman, thru and thru, but my body denies it. Since I'm not on HRT, but will eventually get implants, am I a CD, or trans, and then which form of trans, or am I just a mess? Who cares? I'm one of a group who share this forum, and that is all the conformity I need. Labels do not unite us...they segregate us.

Should we start different groups for those who paint their toenails, and those who don't. Those growing their natural hair certainly deserve a seperate 'community'.

Let's have one big community, we're stronger that way.-Celeste

[Beverley Sims]

I think the two communities are served well here by the subject matter of different posts.
The heading "I am trans" would bring similar replies to the heading "I think I am trans."
Or are you looking for a separate "club" for those that are actually transitioning and excludes every one else?

[PaulaAnn]

tgirlceleste;Excellent response;agree 100%.In my mind I KNOW I'm a female although I have those nasty male bits.I'm at the age where SRS is not an option,nor can I afford it .I will start HRT in March,and apart from a bit of cosmetic surgery to my nose that is as far as I want to go.As far as I'm concerned the people that have done the full transition down to those who only dress for the moment are all one and the same...we all want to present as women be it for the "thrill" of being out in public,sexual desires or the need,want ,desire ,or compulsion to "be" a woman in all things.We do not need further division of our group.....better to band together .....are not our goals the same ?
JMHO,
PaulaAnn

[arbon]

As far as I'm concerned the people that have done the full transition down to those who only dress for the moment are all one and the same...

No, they are not.


are not our goals the same ?

And no our goals are not the same either.

[Barbara Ella]

I agree with Kaitlyn, that it really is about communication, and honesty with ones self about just where/who you are. I know I am female, but transition is not there yet.

What I think could help are sub sections that are perhaps more focused, like Post-Op., In transition. Pre-Op., and maybe others more aptly titled, which would direct discussion, and indicate more clearly who and why you dont respond in that section.

Saying that, the transexual section will always be a magnet for those who are just beginning to suspect (like me) and those who have known, but been hesitant to move, and at times this will result in some posting by the curious. Even those can be educational for some of us. I am learning every day.

Barbara

[Nigella]

Lets make this clear, again

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?187451-A-guide-to-the-Transsexual-Forum

and more specifically
Subjects that are not TRANSSEXUAL specific, i.e make up tips, clothing, breast forms etc DO NOT belong in this forum. Such posts will be moderated in accordance with current policies.

The purpose of this forum
This forum is for those with the external genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics of one sex, but whose personal identification and psychosocial configuration is that of the opposite sex.

Please note the highlighted part of this.

[melissakozak]

Renee,

I honestly believe there are TSs who don't necessarily feel it necessary to transition. I know I will be thrown under the bus for saying this. I have many close friends who are on hormones and some have had SRS and some have not, and some of them who dress daily WITHOUT hormones or the desire for SRS but feel being TG or TS or whatever labels we like to put on this is done satisfactorily through crossdressing and minor body modifications alone.

I see being transgendered as a multilevel experience. First, is there body congruence? Second, is there emotional congruence? Third, is there social congruence? For some of us, our bodies simply don't match our minds. Oh dear. What do we do now? To align our bodies means we have to reconstruct our social relationships...in other words, getting ourselves fixed means we pay a price in other aspects of our life. For some of us, that price is not worth the admission until we are at the end of our rope. For some of us, this means an end to a long and loving marriage, an alteration in friendships and the very real aspect of then being a transwoman, socially. (Unless we move away and go stealth.)

Some of us have built a masculine 'shell' to survive and have even thrived in this role, only to find the internal isolation too much to bear.

What bothers me most is this whole idea of some of us being MORE trans than others because of some aspect of physical or social transition. It is all non-sense. Our lives, collectively, are incredibly difficult to manage whether we transition or not. I, for one, would have transitioned twenty years ago but at that time, it wasn't possible. Now, I am middle aged and realize the cost of transition is simply not worth it FOR ME. Does this make me less trans? Instead, I have to compromise my girl time with work, family, etc. Right now, this works for me. Will it work five years from now? I don't know, but I find myself quite happy to be 'me' once per week with my social circle who knows me almost exclusively as Melissa.
I see the clothes as a means to an end, not an end in itself. They are simply a vehicle for internal and social transformation. Does this make me a crossdresser, transgender or transsexual? I can't get caught up in the labels.

A very dear friend of mine recently confided in me that she regrets transition not because she doesn't feel whole but because she knows she has lost so much. For the record, she transitioned in her late 40's.

I have been seeing a gender counselor for the past 6 months and she has helped me sort out a lot of my feelings, and she feels, to be quite blunt, that I am probably more than a crossdresser but that transition would probably not be in my best interest BUT that I need to express myself often, go out in public as Melissa and have a separate social life. But what the hell does 'more than a crossdresser mean?'

I am thankful I have many trans friends, some who dress once per month, some who are transitioning, some who have and those who would but aren't going to at this time. All of us recognize we are transgender but more importantly, that we are human and we have the same struggles as human beings that other people have. We all have to put up with the social stigma that comes with being trans. We have to struggle to find intimacy with another person and realize that being transgender makes it that much harder to find a partner. We all realize we are unique people regardless of which labels we want to attach to this or how far we have gone down the road of transition.

I finally realized that for me to be happy meant that I had to accept that I was transgendered and had to come up with a solution that worked FOR ME. I have a separate apartment for my other life and become a big part of who I am at least once per week and hang out with a very close circle of other girlfriends. If I went full-time, it would mean the end of a 21 year marriage, loss of seeing my only child daily, loss of friendships I have had for years and the list goes on and on and on, and I would still strive to be the independent, driven individual I am...only as an openly transwoman. To go stealth would cost too much.

So am I TS? By the strict definition, no. But am I more than a crossdresser? Or would someone label me as just a crossdresser? I like to think I am bigendered. I flip flop back and forth, and that makes me happy......and isn't that all that really matters in the long run....is that we make our lives work and find happiness? I would like to think so...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you say its nonsense but the nonsense is that nobody said anybody is more "trans" than anybody...i am so tired of that baloney... every single time that idea is brought up its from somebody that worries they are less trans than someone else...
just stop it...look in the mirror and just be ok with yourself for crying out loud......btw...some of our most "transitioned" folks here still have the old body parts..

transition is transition.....its sometimes hard to use words to define it, but we can all know exactly what it is when we see (or dont see it)...

people that don't transition have a unique set of problems...there is no doubt that many are "Transsexual" but there is also no doubt many are not...who can say which is which...we all have every right and in fact have a responsibility to ourselves and loved ones to mitigate gender dysphoria, but if you are transgendered why is it so important to identify as transsexual?? who cares... you are who you are...don't i get to be something special too? something i can call my own?? you should be thankful that you are not transsexual..

this is not the trangendered forum...its the ts forum...so if you identify as transgendered that's cool (hopefully cool with you too) ....but own it...why get down on transsexuals at all???? even at the ones that may seem arrogant about it
transsexuals almost always identify as women, not as transgendered..especially after they transition..

transgendered people BY DEFINITION have a male life to cherish and enjoy..transsexuals don't...that's a big fricking difference, and its why so many times its important to communicate honestly without feeling better or worse because you are or arent something.
..and its critically important to make this distinction to people that are considering life changing and difficult problems...the distinction DOES matter because advice that works for a crossdresser can be brutal for a ts

it can be horrible to feel like others are somehow keeping their families together but you can not...and the reason many keep their families is because they are not fricking transsexuals, and they have never experienced the type of crippling gender anxiety many of us suffer...this can all be avoided by good communication and the kind of selfless honesty that i guess is rare sometimes...

[Rianna Humble]

its not about policing content as much as it is about communicating better

Maybe I should make that my new sig?

But maybe not, cos I like the quotation from Polonius as a modus vivendi

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Renee,

I honestly believe there are TSs who don't necessarily feel it necessary to transition. I know I will be thrown under the bus for saying this. I have many close friends who are on hormones and some have had SRS and some have not, and some of them who dress daily WITHOUT hormones or the desire for SRS but feel being TG or TS or whatever labels we like to put on this is done satisfactorily through crossdressing and minor body modifications alone.

At different times in a transsexual's life they may manage to cope with their gender dysphoria for a short time. This does not make them "not transsexual", but it does mean that at that point in their life they manage to get by without transitioning. I cannot promise them that it will ever be thus.

Are your friends who are on hormones cisgendered, transgendered, or transsexual? The same medication can be used to treat all three and in the 2nd and 3rd cases there may even be some superficial resemblance in the symptoms. The major difference between the 2nd and 3rd categories is that transgender people who are not TS have a real identity that corresponds to their natal sex (i.e. a male identity for an MtF transgender or a female identity for an FtM transgender) in addition to their trans identity, whereas the transsexual has only one gender identity - the opposite of their natal sex.

Those of your friends for whom dressing regularly without seeking HRT or Gender Confirmation Surgery (a much more accurate description than sex reassignment surgery IMNSHO) is sufficient would not be suffering the acute severe gender dysphoria that is the lot of transsexuals.

This does not make them Trannier than Thou or less tranny than the next cross-dresser, but neither does it make them transsexual.

[kellycan27]

I joined this site in '09 and at that time the TS section was more about transgender rights and less about SRS, HRT and how much ones boobies have grown in the 3 months that one has been on hormones. Ther were far less people pounding their chest and shouting.... I am woman! There were frank discussions very few which focused on the importance of physical changes like " my new vagina". Support was more in the way of blunt honest answers and "feel good" posts were almost non existent. Looking back it was actually kinda scary to venture into the TS section, not too many cross dressers dared or were tolerated. Discussions of clothing were " crossdressers" topics and were frowned upon. Things sure have changed...

For you that feel that we are the same.... maybe we are at a base level being that we are transsexual, but there are a lot of factors and circumstances that make us different. The fact that I have fully transitioned makes me different than someone who is in transition... Not better, just different. The fact that I transitioned at 20 instead of 50 makes me different... Not better. I don't think that I had to face nearly as many issues as someone who transitioned later in life. Your issues are not my issues..... They're different. I don't think that i am more trans than you, I am just in a different place than you are.

[ElleduSud]

.... I read a lot of posts lately from people who seemed to arrive here because their desire/ need to dress in feminine attire has become overwhelming. It is my understanding, and belief, that an overwhelming desire to crossdress is not diagnostic of a transexual ( this is a transexual forum, where i am seeing more of these posts). So i wonder ....

How many actually proceed to transition to a full-time life in the gender not assigned to them, or at least take significant, active steps towards that end?

According to reputable journals, medical studies and professional surveys, approximately 70% of MTF crossdressers/transvestites are practicing a fetish (with or without sexual arousal).

The same sources report that approximately 25% of MTF crossdressers/transvestites eventually identify as transsexual and take significant steps to transition physically and socially.

The remaining 5% MTF crossdressers/transvestites are up for grabs as either dual-gendered or repressed homosexuals. And, before you flame me for the homosexuality, please consider that human sexuality behaviorists who study gender-non-conforming behavior in adolescents report historically and consistently that 90% of their subjects grow into self identified homosexuals and not transsexuals.

[sandra-leigh]

transgendered people BY DEFINITION have a male life to cherish and enjoy..transsexuals don't

That presumes the gender binary. Remember, knowing that one is not "male" is not the same thing as knowing that one is "female".

[ReneeT]

Kelly,

Of all the responses here, you captured the essence of my OP. Those who are transexual and undergo the horrendous process of transition are different (not better or worse) than those who do not fulfill these criteria. Their needs, perspectives, and experiences are different, too, from crossdressers, gender queer, "middle pathers", etc etc. In many, if not most, other areas of life, specific resources are directed to those with specific needs. Golfers dont look for fellowship at bowling alleys, heart failure patients dont seek care at oncology clinics, and so on. So why is this differrent? The " one big happy family" story sounds good, but people go away with unmet needs. We are part of the LGBT "family", but how is that working out? Why dont we all just hang out at the gay/lesbian sites? Why? Because our needs are different. Honestly, i think the commonality between CD's and Ts people are as differrent as those between Ts and gay people. No one is better or worse - just different. And while almost all of my friends are gay or lesbian, i dont seek them out for trans-specific advice. I wouldnt seek outthe advice of a cd-er or someone who is gender-confused either. Why? Because we dont have enough specificity of shared experience or challenges for their advice to be particularly relevant.

So why dont i visit here much anymore? Because i am looking for peer support and advice and dont see that much here anymore, i am not into "feel good" posts, and those who are gender confused dont need me to suggest that they see a mental health professional.

In my OP i asked four questions. No one has offered answers to the first three.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

That presumes the gender binary. Remember, knowing that one is not "male" is not the same thing as knowing that one is "female".

darn tootin it presumes the gender binary..i learned about the concept the hardest way possible..

you are highlighting the problem, and making my point in the bargain

....transsexuals that transition do it because of the binary nature of their gender identity... if one does not identify with this, they are not transsexual and shouldn't worry about being transsexual...they should work to own their outside the binary existence and make the best with what you've got...

we can all share support emotionally and support wildly different situations, but when you communicate with transsexuals you need to understand this or your communications will be counter productive or poorly recieved...

[punkypunk]

I'm currently grappling with the decision to transition. To reply to the OP, I am seeing a therapist and taking this very seriously. There are so many issues they can't be listed, cherishing your male life is relative to the individual, I'm simply worried about keeping the important parts of my life, mostly work even though I reckon that would b fine though awkward; but most importantly my daughter and how she will be affected. I really want to do this for me but just cannot decide..

[kellycan27]

Renee

And the reason that I don't spend much time here is that being married with children I seek my peer and advice and support from my gg friends who are also married with children. They have the same issues as I do and thus we can relate.

[ReneeT]

Renee

And the reason that I don't spend much time here is that being married with children I seek my peer and advice and support from my gg friends who are also married with children. They have the same issues as I do and thus we can relate.


So we cant all be one big happy family? :-)

[Nikki A.]

I consider myself a CD tending towards TG but pretty sure that at my age I don't think I would ever transition to full-time. I also rarely reply to this site but I do read the posts here in that I can sympathise and sometimes envy those of you who have taken this big step.
Closing off or limiting access is not what this forum is all about. I've learned alot about myself through your experiences. Why not be willing to share your experiences with those who are struggling with their own issues.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I for one would like to see a Post-Op section. Like Kelly, post-op gals ARE different. Almost without exception we have finished transition and are living our lives simply as women.

Most post-op women, myself included, KNOW we are not trans anything anymore.

But I do agree that CD'ers have no business here in the transsexual section of this forum. I wager to state that actual transsexuals in this section also have very little if anything in common with CD'ers by definition alone not to mention all the other real differences.

I also have seen where we are becoming more patronizing and less willing to speak hard truth. I think most of my posts have held no punches back and some of you have been offended by my directness.

If I were in the beginning stages of transitioning, I would sure hope other gals to tell it like it is so newbies know realistically what they are stepping into. CD'ers have no earthly idea what it is like to be TS and their responses to difficult TS question lack merit and should be deleted. :sb:

[ReneeT]

I also have seen where we are becoming more patronizing and less willing to speak hard truth. I think most of my posts have held no punches back and some of you have been offended by my directness.


I see this as well. This kind of "feel-good"response is worse than no advice it all. Sugarcoating this bitter pill just kicks reality further down the road, but it will ultimately be faced. Better to have the true picture up front on this. I miss Katesback for this

[Marleena]

I have to say I prefer to talk to the non judgemental postop (now women) like Kelly who I've had many chats with. I've only gotten encouragement from her. She understands the preops (newbies and their struggles). Jorja also comes to mind.

I will say I went through the proper health care channels for diagnosis and was on HRT for months before I dare post in this section because I knew I wouldn't be well received.

[sandra-leigh]

Kaitlyn, You said, "transgendered people BY DEFINITION have a male life to cherish and enjoy..transsexuals don't". So if a natal male has no male life to cherish and enjoy, then according to your DEFINITION, they are not transgendered. But now you say that of someone does not identify with transitioning because of the binary nature of their gender identity, then they are not transsexual. So, not transgender, not transsexual, not cisgendered... Is there another grouping as yet unnamed??

ElleduSud used the phrase "take significant steps to transition physically and socially". She was referring to transsexuals, but many of the same "significant steps" might also be followed by those whose gender dysphoria with their birth sex drives them to do so. If someone's dysphoria drives them to body and medical and social changes and major relationship changes because they feel they must do so, then should we really be telling them that this isn't the right forum for them just because they do not completely identify as being on the other side of the binary from their natal sex?

[kellycan27]

I am not going to sit here and say who is trans and who is not nor do I think we should exclude anyone whom wishes to post. I pick and choose the treads that I respond to or not. Policing my self is much easier than policing the entire forum. I am comfortable with myself and that is what is important to me. It's not my place to judge others.... No matter how F***** up I think they are (that was a joke). Honestly.... Live and let live is my motto.

[StephanieC]

Gee, after all this time, I thought I had found a home in this forum.

I have troubles with figurative labels. "Post-Op" is meaningful to me because of the obvious, non-ambiguous description. But some of the other labels are hard for me to understand. If I'm making body changes and on HRT, what square should I be in? I'd love to have a very concrete plan and timeline but I'm not there yet. For me, this is much like trying to change the tires (and the engine) when the car is driving down the street. I really appreciate the diverse views here...some I can really relate to and some less so. In any case, I think they help me to find my way down a very long, very winding road.

-stephani

[Badtranny]

I was having a conversation with a friend recently via email and she told me she was concerned about some of the hostility she sees in the TS forum. She went on to wonder if transition somehow makes people more aggressive. I like this person very much and I know that her feelings were genuine but I also know that her feelings were born from a lack of understanding. So this is how I responded to her concerns:

Hmmmm, I think I understand your point and the only thing I can say about it is maybe you're right. Maybe some of us do get a little aggressive about defending our little corner of that forum. I can't speak for anyone else obviously but I am proud of who I am and especially proud that I finally pulled my head out my, ...out of the 'sand' and began to live an honest life. It's not an easy thing to do and I may very well have given myself challenges for the remainder of my life but for some reason, I'm happier in my new life than I could have ever imagined.

I am a transsexual, and just saying that in some parts of this country would get you killed, so it gets a little personal when somebody claims to be TS without doing the hard part. I know all about the confusion and the fear but that's part of the package ya know? You just can't play it safe to protect a relationship, or a job, or community standing, and still demand to be accepted and respected by people who have already put all of those same things at risk. I fully understand that a person can be TS and yet never transition for whatever reason but that person is nothing like me. I chose to live a life that felt real to me, perhaps they did as well, but their choice did not include transition, and I don't blame them for that. It's a tough choice to make.

When somebody says they just can't do it because they have kids and they love them too much, then what does that say about the people with kids that DID transition? They didn't love their kids or their spouse as much? Everybody has their reasons for doing it or not and they're ALL valid reasons, but doing it is worth something. It's worth the acknowledgement that you followed your heart and it's worth the damn label of transsexual at the very least. Before I transitioned, I would tell people that I was a transsexual and they would say "what's that mean?". Now when I tell people I'm a transsexual they say "oh", because they know exactly what it means. There is no explanation necessary because my life IS the explanation. Every single morning I go out and face the world with my 5'11" frame and not quite ready for prime-time hair, face, and body and I crank out another day of transition. Some days are harder than others. Some days I can almost feel what it's going to be like. Someday when I tell someone I'm a transsexual, they will say "no way!" and when they do, I will be proud to live the life that I've chosen, ...because I've earned it.

We do get a little sensitive I guess, but I hope you can understand that we feel special because we've done a special thing. A rare and amazing thing. We've followed our own bliss and suffered because of it. We cherish each other but we're also a little protective of our station, perhaps too much so sometimes. I'll admit that it is an exclusive club, but it IS open to anybody, all you have to do is pay your dues. Unfortunately the dues can be very high.

[Marleena]

We had a chance not long ago to make this a private section. Maybe an advice section for those that aren't sure they are TS might help? Then make the TS section for those at different stages of transition.

[ReneeT]

Gee, after all this time, I thought I had found a home in this forum.

I have troubles with figurative labels. "Post-Op" is meaningful to me because of the obvious, non-ambiguous description. But some of the other labels are hard for me to understand. If I'm making body changes and on HRT, what square should I be in? I'd love to have a very concrete plan and timeline but I'm not there yet. For me, this is much like trying to change the tires (and the engine) when the car is driving down the street. I really appreciate the diverse views here...some I can really relate to and some less so. In any case, I think they help me to find my way down a very long, very winding road.

-stephani

Don't be surprised if, as you continue on your journey, your "home" no longer meets your needs because you no longer have much in common with others in the house. As we grow up, we often want to leave home and get our own place. That is not to say that the others in the home dont need shelter too, they just need something different.

[ReneeT]

And no one suggested restricting acces - go back and reread the OP. self-policing works best, a those whe assign themselves as police often have different perspectives. I dont post in the cd forum or loved ones, since thats not my space and my contributions wouldnt add to the conversations. I feel the same about those who do not identify,or have not done the hard work to figure out if they are, TS, posting here. Telling me that you love to crossdress and wish you were a girl so you could dress like a girl all the time really doesnt help me in my existential, risk-all struggle to align my gender identity and gender expression. Your needs are as real as my, but they are very different.

[stefan37]

I have to say if I did not have access to this part of the forum I doubt I would have mustered the courage to head down the path of transition. My wife encouraged me to seek therapy for my gender issues and my therapist and I discussed many issues. My therapist believed that hrt would benefit me greatly and I asked if i was just tg or ts. He gave me some thoughts to ponder so i may discover the truth for myself. After the 2 or 3rd meeting the need to dress diminished and today I have no great desire to dress. My entire family knows what I am going through, and my wife is struggling with her place in all this. My kids while not quite accepting I thought at least understood, but one is really angry and the other is struggling. Both are in their early 20's. I have disclosed to friends and my business manager. I crossdressed for a long long time and i derived much stress relief. At some time I am not sure when the anxiety would not subside and I was longing for more.

I appreciate the brutal honest advice given as one of the traits those that transition must posses is perseverance. Post that detail the difficulties of transitioning are invaluable for those contemplating transition. Some individuals seem to have successful transition at work and on the surface it looks like they have made it. But they endure talk behind their backs, are required to use separate bathrooms sometimes in inconvenient areas. I would have no idea this stuff happens without the feedback of those that have gone before. Yes we grow and develop and our needs change but i would like to pay forward to those starting out as I am as those that have progressed have done for me.

I started out in the crossdresser section thinking that was all I was but as I read posts about what color panties, where do you hide your stash etc etc,, those topics held no relevance for me and I found comfort in the ts section. I guess my point is that those cd's that visit will soon leave as the topics discussed hold no relevance for them.

I have taken the starting steps necessary and I am finding out the stark reality and pain that accompanies the decision I made. In the spite of the difficulties I am encountering and the very real loss of my marriage I beleive I am doing the right thing for me and I as i progress each step confirms to me this is the right path I must take.

[ColleenA]

And no one suggested restricting acces - go back and reread the OP. self-policing works best, as those who assign themselves as police often have different perspectives. I dont post in the cd forum or loved ones, since thats not my space and my contributions wouldnt add to the conversations. I feel the same about those who do not identify,or have not done the hard work to figure out if they are, TS, posting here. Telling me that you love to crossdress and wish you were a girl so you could dress like a girl all the time really doesnt help me in my existential, risk-all struggle to align my gender identity and gender expression. Your needs are as real as my, but they are very different.

It seems to me that:
(1) when someone posts a CD-relevant comment in this forum, they are taken to task quickly for introducing something that doesn't belong;

and more importantly:
(2) when someone says here they are questioning if they might be transsexual, they receive numerous replies advising they get to a gender counselor and begin the hard work of sorting through the issues properly and fully.


... I read a lot of posts lately from people who seemed to arrive here because their desire/ need to dress in feminine attire has become overwhelming. It is my understanding, and belief, that an overwhelming desire to crossdress is not diagnostic of a transexual ... How many would have these thoughts if they weren't centered around attire? ... The balance of this forum has definately shifted to the "i think i am trans" and away from "i am trans so what do i do about it"

I completely agree that "an overwhelming desire to crossdress is not diagnostic of a transsexual." When I was 15, I questioned that issue for myself and realized I was not TS; the few times I revisited that issue in the decades since I came to the same conclusion. So I do not come to this forum as a transsexual, but as a supporter/ally of those who are TS. (I do however come as my crossdressing female persona.)

As to threads of the "I think I am trans" type, I believe they have merit, whether here or on the main crossdressing forum, where you can find many, as it is a legitimate starting point for one to struggle with. To me, though, one difference is that on the other forum, someone is likely to receive a lot more "feel good-ism" than they get here. Why? Because the transitioners and transitioned here are far more willing to call someone out for BS or shallow thinking.

So, I agree with you - self-policing by the members of the forum will serve.

OK, I've blathered on long enough. I hope I contributed something.

[Jessica86]

What about someone like me? I think everyone starts some place. Every trans person didn't just wake up and boom! Trans. No. To me, it makes sense to say all trans people started out as cross dressing persons. Then, some, like me, sit down. They analyze the good, the bad, and the things that will not change. I, for one, consider myself transgender, even though I am not surgically "trans." I have the same mind set as most trans people I have spoken with...in person. We can sit here all day long and argue about "it's harder to be ts" or "it's harder to just be labeled a cross dresser". That doesn't matter. What does is that in every person there is a mind set all in the same to each of us, and each of you. Someone like me....may not go through surgery just because they will lose too much. I would lose my wife. I would lose my children. I could not be a father to them, like I think they need. I love my job, and I hate to admit it, but my profession isn't the most friendly place to be a ts person. If I was single, and knew what I know now, I know I would in a heart beat. I know there are tons of others just like me who can't change the course of so many lives when the course we are on now seems fine.

[melissakozak]

Wow. I think the responses generated by this post reveal how complex life can be. I guess I really stirred the pot with my comments. I mean no one any disrespect by what I have said, and if I have offended anyone, please accept my apologies. I have been reading posts in this forum for 6 months, and frankly, the discussions here seem more relevant to me than what I find in the MTF crossdressing section. I find most of you who post here to have intelligent, cogent and relevant responses to serious questions. I am raising a flag of peace.....may all of our paths be blessed, whatever path that may be....

[PaulaAnn]

Melissakozak;Yes indeed,"may all our paths be blessed,whatever that path may be."
PaulaAnn

[Debglam]

I am not going to sit here and say who is trans and who is not nor do I think we should exclude anyone whom wishes to post. I pick and choose the treads that I respond to or not. Policing my self is much easier than policing the entire forum. I am comfortable with myself and that is what is important to me. It's not my place to judge others.... No matter how F***** up I think they are (that was a joke). Honestly.... Live and let live is my motto.

Bump, yeah that, I agree, etc. Kelly has accurately expressed my point of view.

Until the definitions of all the versions of trans are clearly defined, deciding who is in and who is out is meaningless. Where does "crossdresser" end and "transsexual" begin?????

Look, I get the OP and some of the supporting posts. As someone who considers herself smack dab in the middle of all of this, "panty" posts are as irrelevant to me as orchiectomy posts. If I'm not interested, I don't read it and don't respond. Unless someone is truly offensive to me, I try to find common ground.

[Rogina B]

Until the definitions of all the versions of trans are clearly defined, deciding who is in and who is out is meaningless. Where does "crossdresser" end and "transsexual" begin?????

Look, I get the OP and some of the supporting posts. As someone who considers herself smack dab in the middle of all of this, "panty" posts are as irrelevant to me as orchiectomy posts. If I'm not interested, I don't read it and don't respond. Unless someone is truly offensive to me, I try to find common ground.
Exactly! And I don't see all that many panty thrillers and cheerleaders here that some imagine.

[busker]

This is really a rhetorical question. I read a lot of posts lately from people who seemed to arrive here because their desire/ need to dress in feminine attire has become overwhelming. It is my understanding, and belief, that an overwhelming desire to crossdress is not diagnostic of a transexual ( this is a transexual forum, where i am seeing more of these posts). So i wonder about several things: how many of these people seek professional help to sort out there issues? How many actually proceed to transition to a full-time life in the gender not assigned to them, or at least take significant, active steps towards that end? How many would have these thoughts if they weren't centered around attire? My guesses to these questions are not many, not many, not many.

Which brings me to my next question (and for those of you that know me, i typically introduce a bit of controversy in my posts): would this population be better served by a separate "community" dedicated to those who love to crossdress and therefore think they might be trans? The converse of that is that transexual "communities" would better serve those who actually are trans. I, of course, know that this is a rhetorical question too. The balance of this forum has definately shifted to the "i think i am trans" and away from "i am trans so what do i do about it"
Renee,
The title of your post caught my eye and having read some months ago on this very site about the waiting lists for surgery at both the Canadian and Thai hospitals that do SRS being some 6 to 9 months long, that would mean that a LOT of people are having surgery and clearly not many belong to this forum. Could it be that what you believe to be not many are simply bypassing sites such as this because they already know that how their life will be progressing and don't need advice? I saw something not too long ago about a 15 year-old in Germany who has already had surgery--the youngest on record. Clearly CD.com was not a stopping point, not only from the language point of view but obviously this person followed a more direct path to physical and mental well-being. I guess it is like the old quote, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, did it really make a sound?" If people transition far from the madding crowd, they still did transition and so "not many" may only be not many sought out CD.com. It took me a while to find this after wading through the thousands of cd hits on the web and that seems confirmed by many---web searching is not the ideal.
From statistics I once found on this site, a large number of visitors come from India, but other countries were not listed.

[Badtranny]

I really don't understand this resistance to allowing transitioners the courtesy to assemble with other transitioners. There are waaaaaaaay more people who aren't transitioning for whatever reason who may or may not identify as any number of things including TS. Like Renee I've been noticing less and less transitioners on the board and more and more questioners or fence sitters. I don't have any problem with people who can't commit to transition and I don't even care why they don't. I'm sure their reasons for NOT doing it are every bit as valid as my reasons FOR doing it. At the end of the day, who cares who's doing what but there's a few TS girls who I really enjoy hearing from that don't post much anymore and that bothers me. We were on the verge of a fun little forum, and then there were a few blowups, a few CD's got their feelings hurt and a couple of prominent TS girls got banned, and that irritated about a dozen other TS girls who basically went away. None of that would have happened if the people who "hate labels" wouldn't have asserted themselves in discussions they didn't belong in. It's also kinda lame when someone sticks their nose into a conversation and then gets it out of joint because they basically can't play with the big girls.

Here's how it works; Somebody chimes in with an "almost full time" or "full time except at work" comment, and I make a snide remark because the whole concept of "except at work" is offensive to those of us who make no exception for ourselves, and feelings get hurt and my post get reported, and then my post gets deleted because it was argumentative or something. After that, my only regret is not saying something that was actually offensive. This has happened to almost every single TS girl here and some would make the argument that maybe we shouldn't be so bitchy, but many of us have had some fairly heated exchanges with each other and it almost NEVER results in posts being deleted or moderated. Most of us do have a rather pointed communication style but I would say on the whole that we understand each other even if we don't agree. For example, I may have very little patience for my Conservative sisters, but I pity the fool who flames her for anything TS related because me and every other Liberal bitch on the board has got her back. We may have absolutely nothing in common EXCEPT for transition but that by itself is strong enough to bind us. I know what it takes to do it because I've done it. I know what it's like to have 12 year old girls whisper "creepy" when they're standing behind you in the clearance racks. I know what it's like to show up for a meeting when your 'story' has preceded you and everybody can't wait to see the tranny. Every transitioning TS person knows all of this. There is no safe haven, it's all tranny all the time. That is an experience that binds us. It is an experience that I have no idea how I'm surviving, so if it seems like I have an affinity for the girls that are actually transitioning, it's because I do.

Yes we're a little blunt and hard, but our lives are blunt and hard. When you come out to the world including work and family, and you start going to work with makeup and cleavage, and tell all the guys that your name is Melissa now, then you will understand. In fact ONLY then will you truly understand.

[Tamara Croft]

But I do agree that CD'ers have no business here in the transsexual section of this forum.

CD'ers have no earthly idea what it is like to be TS and their responses to difficult TS question lack merit and should be deleted. :sb:Wow, how rude is that? This section is open to ALL to post in, to discuss transsexual topics and you have no right what so ever to say their responses lack merit, should be deleted and they shouldn't be allowed in here.

And FYI, we are not creating more subsections, we are trying to cut down the sections, there was 53, there's now 50... some people are just so ungrateful on this forum :Angry3:

[AnneB1nderful]

I hope y'all don't mind if a "noob" chimes in. I mean I'm a real newbie - fully accepting my femininity just 3 months ago and now knowing I need to transition (I'm ducking expecting stones). I never liked my male body or genitalia. I adopted the male persona best I could thinking that's what I was "supposed" to do. Now I realize it's not what I "have" to do I "can" grow old as a woman. I'm so much more comfortable as a living as woman.

So, let's just say I'm in "pink fog" and stepping onto a road to which I truly don't belong. Whether you bombard me with brutal honesty, gentile guidance, or just your experiences, once that fog clears I would realize that I'm not TS and move back to the road I belong.

Now, let's turn that around. Let's say I am TS and jump into this forum. You should bombard me with brutal honesty, gentile guidance, and your experiences. That way I can make conscientious decisions about what is best for me. Without those further in transition, pre-op, and post-op trans-women around to draw experiences from, I would be lost - probably like many of you were years ago. From what I've read, the TS forum was a lonely place and you had to learn a lot thru trial and error (probably more error).

So, I'm thankful for the TS Forum and hope all of you stay to help us "noobs" get boobs and other improvements so our bodies more closely resemble who we are inside.

Kelly,
Really respect your mature comment. Young One, you are wise beyond your years.


I am not going to sit here and say who is trans and who is not nor do I think we should exclude anyone whom wishes to post. I pick and choose the treads that I respond to or not. Policing my self is much easier than policing the entire forum.

[Tracy - new dresser]

im only a CD atm but im glad i started coming here, ive only ever gotten good advice from this forum. and because of this forum im seeking help in the form of a therapist. so even if i dont transition or anything this forum has still helped me out a whole lot.

[jocelyn_victoria]

ok i have a valid question...and i could use a little help with this...

i drive tour bus. when we have multiple bus moves and have to stay in hotels we have to room with another coworker. obviously i get stuck with the guys. i wear undies and thats easy to cover but what is best way to come out at work? i want to go full time but i have had a really hard time from coworkers. example i wear a fem sweater and acrylic nails and a tad bit of makeup. i got every remark known to man from coworkers so when i say im fem except at work theres a darn good reason but i dont want to be this i want to be me. i could use a bit of encouragement or some advise.:sad:

[Pearl]

how valuable you all are, what a rare find this place is and how hungry the rest of the world is for you! the process you go through to change is such a mystery to me, a metamorphosis! i want to look into the minds of all of you who have whatever it is that allows you to make such a decision as transition. i need to understand my own thoughts in comparison, because i want to grow and you can help me.

it's growing pains of a sort. the entire trans community is growing geometrically now, and you are seeing the results. it's a baby boom, maybe. and we come here for understanding, if that's possible, and education and friendship, which certainly is.

[ReneeT]

ok i have a valid question...and i could use a little help with this...

i drive tour bus. when we have multiple bus moves and have to stay in hotels we have to room with another coworker. obviously i get stuck with the guys. i wear undies and thats easy to cover but what is best way to come out at work? i want to go full time but i have had a really hard time from coworkers. example i wear a fem sweater and acrylic nails and a tad bit of makeup. i got every remark known to man from coworkers so when i say im fem except at work theres a darn good reason but i dont want to be this i want to be me. i could use a bit of encouragement or some advise.:sad:
Really? Do you even know what this thred is about? Start your own damn thread!

[Tamara Croft]

And it begins... and it ends... thread closed.