The talk with my wife

[EmilyLynn28]

Six years ago, I told my wife that I dressed. She flipped out, I backed down and said that I would go to counseling, and never dress again. I panicked on her response.

Last week, I shaved off my goatee of four and a half years. She did not like this. I have kept shaving every day and told her that I want to try this for a while.

So last night, she asked me again when I was going to grow it back. I repeated my answer and she immediately asked me if I was cross dressing again. I wasn't ready for that talk, so I said no. She proceeded to say she didn't believe me and that our marriage is a sham. That there's no love in it anymore (which she is right.)

For those who have seen my other threads, I have been seeing a therapist for the last two weeks. I am torn between following my heart versus being there for the family. After last night, I think I'm going to come clean with her tonight and tell her that I will always have gender identity issues in my life and I can't change that. I know this will end the marriage, but I don't think I can salvage it either.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Good luck Emily

you can be true and honest AND Be compassionate and loving at the same time


I know how hard this is...
i hope you guys can figure out a way to both be ok with this...

[Jenni Yumiko]

The most important thing is are there kids involved? How will this affect them? You have to weigh that in versus your marriage. I understand if its on the dumps for other reasons, abusive or not a positive environment for them, but if the only reason for divorce is because you want to dress up, I don't believe that's a valid resolution.
I don't know your situation, so forgive me for being blunt, I have many friends where the mom and dad are divorced, for reasons less than yours and greater and in the end, the kids suffer and it's not right.
HOWEVER if there are no kids, then follow your heart, there has to be compromise in a relationship. ESP if she knew before you got married. She can't accept or DADT one day then say its completely unacceptable the next.
If you told her after the fact, then you kinda have to take it how she wants it, or move on.

[EmilyLynn28]

There are kids involved. I believe I am transsexual, not just a crossdresser, so that would be even harder for her to deal with. I love my kids and that is why I backed down six years ago. And now, I'm not happy, my wife isn't happy, and she has no trust in me.

[Jenni Yumiko]

//begin rant
I'm sure I'm in the "it's all about me" minority here but, you have kids. The kids didn't have you. I get the gender confusion but its something you should have thought more in depth before you had kids. Even if you didn't think you were at that point, you made a vow for better or worse, even more so you created life, kids. Kids who can't do things without your and your wife's help. Kids who rely on you for financial and mental support, guidance and safety.
While the gender issues and wife acceptance is a big issue, I think you should really think this through with and without your wife before you make any decisions. You guys should also seek marriage counseling.
Lets not forget the whole divorce process and how it brings out the utter worst in people. Not saying this will be your case but Be prepared to be slammed by your wife, outed outed to the kids and so forth. People can be real a$$es when emotions and livelihood are on the line.
//end rant

I implore you to get marriage counseling and don't take an Internet forum as your basis for decisions.
Not trying to be a dick, I just hate to see kids losing.

[Beverley Sims]

It is ok to tell her you have issues in your life, but be compassionate about it, leave an option open for her to respond and do not close the gate on the marriage.
You have children, consider them and see if some form of affection can be rekindled.
I would keep shaving for my own peace of mind and dress out of her sight to keep my moodiness at bay.
You could try and grow the goatee back and leave it ugly and unkempt but I think your wife will grow to accept no facial hair.
If I remember it was only insisted on to make it more awkward for you to X Dress.
Don't be so sure that this latest episode will end the marriage be positive and keep your options open.
There is a lot at stake.

[Ann Louise]

I was married before, divorced, and remarried again. I had two children in the first marriage. They watched my ex and I argue and engage in a bitter cold war for several years until we divorced. After the divorce I remained a faithful father, both in financial support (never ONCE having shirked my financial obligations), and emotional support (remaining a HIGHLY active and engaged father through a rigorous, court-enforced visitation arrangement). I am convinced that a significant element in the breakup of my first marriage was my then-secret cross dressing whenever the opportunity presented itself.

This time around I am "out" about it. This marriage is not perfect, but the element of duplicity has been removed. I treat my wife with love and respect and she treats me the same, even though dressing has stressed her.

Yes, see a counselor, but I would also suggest retaining the services of the best lawyer that you can afford.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

"its all about the kids"....well duh... trannsexuals need to deal with this reality differently than crossdressers....its different different different....

..it is not about dressing up or goatees..this is not the cd section....how to handle being a crossdresser wanting to dress more is nothing at all like how to handle being transsexual...

the advice you get from crossdressers is unhelpful towards your problem and will only make you feel inadequate and a bad father...

what on earth compels a crossdresser to come to this section and spout off about famlly responsibility to a ts person trying to save their family....(other than just not liking or understanding transsexuals very much)

[josee]

"its all about the kids"....well duh... trannsexuals need to deal with this reality differently than crossdressers....its different different different....

..it is not about dressing up or goatees..this is not the cd section....how to handle being a crossdresser wanting to dress more is nothing at all like how to handle being transsexual...

the advice you get from crossdressers is unhelpful towards your problem and will only make you feel inadequate and a bad father...

what on earth compels a crossdresser to come to this section and spout off about famlly responsibility to a ts person trying to save their family....(other than just not liking or understanding transsexuals very much)

Thanks Kaitlyn, you saved me a lot of typing.

[arbon]

//begin rant
I get the gender confusion but its something you should have thought more in depth before you had kids. Even if you didn't think you were at that point, you made a vow for better or worse, even more so you created life, kids. Kids who can't do things without your and your wife's help. Kids who rely on you for financial and mental support, guidance and safety..

Its not a perfect world you know. People make mistakes. It does not make sense to keep making the same mistake and being miserable. People who transition can still be great supportive loving parents.

[LeaP]

...I get the gender confusion but its something you should have thought more in depth before you had kids. Even if you didn't think you were at that point, you made a vow for better or worse, even more so you created life, kids.

Based on this, I would say you don't understand. Not the wholly inapt "gender confusion", not the etiology or issues associated with the process of realization.

If indeed EmilyLynn is TS, the question facing her is what it means to live, nothing less. It's an appalling place to be. There are no rules for coming to terms with this, including expectations around commitments. I don't minimize their importance, I'm just telling you that this can psychologically and emotionally overrule in ways that can't always be predicted, channeled, or controlled.

[stefan37]

I am going through the difficult process of transitioning and the messy conflicts it entails with family. You have to decide for yourself your level of dysphoria and how well can you mitigate it to be comfortable. If you are truly in need of transitioning then the proper course is to be brutally honest with your wife about what you need to do. There will be incredible sadness, anguish, possibly guilt and the emotions go on. Those emotions and whatever fallout occurs is part of the process, none of us can avoid or escape from. Transition will induce changes that your kids will pick up on and unless you are honest with them will cause unneeded stress and confusion for them. After disclosing to your kids there is a very good possibility they will be scared and angry, and your wife will then feel more distressed because of it. If you are truly transsexual and need to transition putting it off or making promises to the wife you can not keep will only prolong the inevitable.
Before you take steps to disclose you need to investigate and accept the condition that afflicts you and then make the decisions that will benefit you. By putting them off will only delay the inevitable and cause more pain and suffering.
If you are not healthy both physically and mentally how can you be of any benefit to your family? I would avoid advice from those that say you should just suck it up and go about your life. Those individuals do not suffer from gender dyphoria acutely enough to change their bodies or life for congruence.

[Jenni Yumiko]

Ok, point taken, I'm not a ts nor do I suffer from gender dyphoria, so I apologize and retract those statements.
My main concern as i have stated repeatedly that you feel the need to ignore, is about the kids, and most of this conversation has been "me, me, me and how I feel"
I'm also not saying its a perfect world and people don't make mistakes and I'm sure the level of love for the kids dont change, but they are the ones who get effed in the situation, they are the ones who suffer more, they are the ones that have to deal with the parents opinions of the other and they are the ones who will still be dealing with it after you and spouse have moved on to other relationships. Who's there to defend them because it sure as hell isn't the parents usually, they are too busy having sow their oats time and hurting the other (generalization I know, but you get my point)
My other point was to try to do what you can to save the marriage, but, yeah you missed that part also. TL;DR gg

[ColleenA]

My main concern as i have stated repeatedly that you feel the need to ignore, is about the kids, and most of this conversation has been "me, me, me and how I feel"

... the kids ... Who's there to defend them because it sure as hell isn't the parents usually, they are too busy having sow their oats time and hurting the other

This isn't about EmilyLynn blowing off her responsibilities as a parent so she can sow her oats; she's not a Casey Anthony. This is about her dealing with an inner struggle of identity so she can make her life what it needs to be.

Yes, her children may well be caught in the wake of the choices she makes, but children -- or a marriage -- cannot completely trump the need to be true to oneself. I believe that staying in a bad situation can do more damage to all parties than moving into a healthier state of being. (Granted, getting to that healthier state of being involves IMMENSE time, effort and expense, and usually leads to untold fallout, but I'm sure many here can attest to the end being worth the cost.)


My other point was to try to do what you can to save the marriage, but, yeah you missed that part also. TL;DR gg

Hmm, well, both your state, Jennialy, and EmilyLynn's don't allow two women to get married, so if EmilyLynn does transition, could the marriage even be saved? And that's merely from a legal standpoint. From what the OP says, her wife would not even consider staying with her should she transition.

[Nigella]

The situation that Emily finds herself in is no stranger to the majority of TS women. Very few SOs can accept that their partner is a woman and their genetic makeup makes it almost impossible for them to form a relationship with a woman. If this means that the relationship has to break down, then it is up to the ADULTS to make the break up as easy as possible for the CHILDREN. This is not a unique situation to TS folk, but happens everyday in every city in the world. The difference here is that it appears that being TS is the final/only straw.

As long as Emily remembers her responsibilities, both moral and legal, then the children will be taken care of. Why anyone should equate being TS as being childless in a loving relationship I'll never know. At the time of conception, I would assume that Emily was comfortable in the role of husband and would not have had any thought about what would happen to my children if I become a woman.

To Emily, only you and your SO can tell if your marriage is worth trying to save and what compromises BOTH of you are willing to throw into the pot. If the marriage is doomed then take the high ground, take being TS out of the equation when it comes to dealing with the break up. Deal with the problems that come with a breakup and then move on. Time does not heal these wounds, but they will deaden the pain.

Your love for your SO and Kids is there and cannot be taken away, keep that love to the front and always show it no matter what :hugs:

[Rianna Humble]

Ok, point taken, I'm not a ts nor do I suffer from gender dyphoria, so I apologize and retract those statements.
My main concern as i have stated repeatedly that you feel the need to ignore, is about the kids,

The logical conclusion of the path that you advocate is that the OP will spiral down into depression as the Gender Dysphoria becomes totally untenable in her life. How will having a father suffering from depression and unable to function as a human being be good for the children?

After staying and inflicting the depression of one parent on the family "for the good of the children", there is a strong possibility of self-harm going as far as suicide, {irony on}but hey, let's not forget that must be better for the children than having the parents divorce and the TS parent go on to be a loving, responsible, live, engaged parent.{irony off}

Rianna (writing not as a mod but as someone who has experienced that kind of depression first hand)

[Laurie Ann]

I agree with Rianna

[kimdl93]

Honestly, if your wife is that ready to,dismiss a marriage over shaving a goatee, and if as you've said, you're in a loveless marriage, then by all means be honest about this at least. But don't let her blame it on CDing. This marriage has obviously been missing a lot of essential affection for a long time.

[Tibby]

First point while I am a wife of a crossdresser I am also a mother and have been in bad relationships before where children are involved so what I say comes solely as a woman who has been through bad times.

Yes children are involved but the OP has already shown how devoted they are to their children and to the mental stability and welfare of their children. That shouldn't ever come into question as when you have children you will do anything and will sacrifice anything for them. But this shouldn't mean you also have to sacrifice your own identity or stop being who you are.

Children are very persceptive and also very resiliant. If things have been bad in the marriage for some time and the parents stay together solely for the benefit of the children, this can sometimes have an adverse effect on the children. They grow up seeing mum and dad argue often, they feel the tension in the household and they don't see affection between their parents. Sometimes the best thing for the children is for the parents to not be together so then they can see their parents being happy. It's not a good place for children to be when the parents aren't happy. The most important thing for the children is to be loved and supported by both parents, no matter if the parents live together or not. The children don't need to know the reasons behind a break up or the arguements, but they will be aware of them and if it's a constant theme in the house, they will be aware and it will effect them.

It doesn't matter what the reasons are behind the tension and arguements, all the children see is mum and dad aren't happy and it will upset them.

A gender issue like yours isn't something which I think could be resolved by marriage counselling, and I think it would only make things worse if you are struggling so much with this issue to remain i the state you are. As has already been mentioned, if you sprial into depression this isn't going to benefit you, your wife or your children.

To those who say think of the children, just because someone leaves a marriage does not mean they are leaving their children, sometimes they leave the marriage to give their children the best possible chance at stability and be able to let their children learn that you have to be yourself to be happy, something we, as parents, always tell our children. We always teach them that being yourself is what counts, yet as parents we sometimes try to keep who we are confined and locked away.

[Kate T]

So last night, she asked me again when I was going to grow it back. I repeated my answer and she immediately asked me if I was cross dressing again. I wasn't ready for that talk, so I said no. She proceeded to say she didn't believe me and that our marriage is a sham. That there's no love in it anymore (which she is right.)....
.... but I don't think I can salvage it either.

From what I have read on these forums and others, there is absolutely no doubt that it is an extraodinary marriage that survives transition of a partner.

The one thing that however seems to be universal in those marriages that have survived transition is there has been complete and absolute trust and openness in them. IF you wish to save your relationship it is my fervent belief you must no longer "dodge" those questions.

Best wishes

[Nicole Erin]

If you have been there for the kids for any amount of time, you have already done much more than a lot of "sperm donors" out there.
If you and the wife cannot make things work, well it happens. You two gave it an honest shot at least. Life is too short to be stuck in an unhappy marriage. My ex and I learned that.

[Michelle.M]

Hmm, well, both your state, Jennialy, and EmilyLynn's don't allow two women to get married, so if EmilyLynn does transition, could the marriage even be saved? And that's merely from a legal standpoint.

They're not getting married. They ARE married. Transition doesn't change that, and the only legal issues involved will be those that come from a divorce, if that even happens.

[jennifer24]

You are totally right Adina, it takes alot of give and take both ways, honesty betwwen both partys is a must, it will never work without that.
Just open up to her and tell her your true feelings, if the relationship is meant to be then it will, you at least owe it to her to be honest.

[Jennifer Sophia]

My father has struggled with gender issues since he was young, I didn't know about this until a year and a half ago and he only accepted that part of him a little over three years ago. In the three years since, our relationship has grown and we have become much closer. I feel these past three years have been better than the previous thirty when he was either non existent or distant. I am not trying to say you are anything like him, but some good things can come from dealing with it and not ignoring or pretending everything is ok.

[melissaK]

Might snag a copy of this too while you are at it.

http://www.routledgementalhealth.com/books/details/9780415883597/

Handbook of LGBT-Affirmative Couple and Family Therapy
Edited by Jerry J. Bigner, Joseph L. Wetchler

Published April 5th 2012 by Routledge – 507 pages

[ColleenA]

They're not getting married. They ARE married. Transition doesn't change that, and the only legal issues involved will be those that come from a divorce, if that even happens.

I know they are married. But as to transition not changing that, I would not be surprised if that is dependent in part on the laws of the specific state where she lives.

I kind of recall seeing at least one person on this forum stating her choices about which steps to take in transition have been influenced by what it would mean to the legal status of her marriage. That is why I raised the question I did.

[Sally24]

Jennialy, I think the only one here not getting it is you. I think that in many cases, kids are worse off being raised in a marriage with no love. If they divorce, there is at least a chance that one or both the parents will be happy. There are much worse things for kids than divorce. And Emily wasn't doing the me me me thing. She presented her wife's situation and hers. Of course we'll talk about her more. She is the one here discussing this. Keeping options open is always wise but let's be realistic about parents who just can't get along anymore. Plenty of divorced parents do a fine job of carring for their kids.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

First point while I am a wife of a crossdresser I am also a mother and have been in bad relationships before where children are involved so what I say comes solely as a woman who has been through bad times.

Yes children are involved but the OP has already shown how devoted they are to their children and to the mental stability and welfare of their children. That shouldn't ever come into question as when you have children you will do anything and will sacrifice anything for them. But this shouldn't mean you also have to sacrifice your own identity or stop being who you are.

Children are very persceptive and also very resiliant. If things have been bad in the marriage for some time and the parents stay together solely for the benefit of the children, this can sometimes have an adverse effect on the children. They grow up seeing mum and dad argue often, they feel the tension in the household and they don't see affection between their parents. Sometimes the best thing for the children is for the parents to not be together so then they can see their parents being happy. It's not a good place for children to be when the parents aren't happy. The most important thing for the children is to be loved and supported by both parents, no matter if the parents live together or not. The children don't need to know the reasons behind a break up or the arguements, but they will be aware of them and if it's a constant theme in the house, they will be aware and it will effect them.

It doesn't matter what the reasons are behind the tension and arguements, all the children see is mum and dad aren't happy and it will upset them.

A gender issue like yours isn't something which I think could be resolved by marriage counselling, and I think it would only make things worse if you are struggling so much with this issue to remain i the state you are. As has already been mentioned, if you sprial into depression this isn't going to benefit you, your wife or your children.

To those who say think of the children, just because someone leaves a marriage does not mean they are leaving their children, sometimes they leave the marriage to give their children the best possible chance at stability and be able to let their children learn that you have to be yourself to be happy, something we, as parents, always tell our children. We always teach them that being yourself is what counts, yet as parents we sometimes try to keep who we are confined and locked away.

very true and exceptionally well said!! you covered everything
thanks for sharing this!!