Does society cause crossdressing?

[Margo Paulse]

In my personal quest to discover why I crossdress, I pose questions to myself. My initial postulate is ' Do society's mores cause our desire of crossdressing?' If all clothing was unisex, crossdressing could not exist. Society ultimately determines the definitions of femininity & masculinity.
I also believe our general tastes are formed during our prepubescent years.

Just releasing the overflow of excess synaptic activity.

[Jenniferathome]

But it is not just about clothes. If the world were unisex clothing, then we cross dressers would do something that only women did. Maybe wear an earring or a wig or walk with a hand on our hip, whatever mannerism was associated with women, we would mimic.

[Jamie001]

In my personal quest to discover why I crossdress, I pose questions to myself. My initial postulate is ' Do society's mores cause our desire of crossdressing?' If all clothing was unisex, crossdressing could not exist. Society ultimately determines the definitions of femininity & masculinity.
I also believe our general tastes are formed during our prepubescent years.

Just releasing the overflow of excess synaptic activity.

Yes, I believe that society causes crossdressing and that crossdressing would not exist if all clothing and make-up was unisex. Society has caused crossdressing by relegating males to colorless, ugly, and clunky clothing that lacks expressiveness, whereas female clothing is colorful, pretty, and figure/form flattering. Also society has brainwashed males to believe that actions are extremely important that little emphasis should be placed upon clothing, hence the reason that all formally dressed men look like clones of one-another.

[LaraPeterson]

Far too many of us started at an age when society had little or no sway upon us. I say no.

[RenneB]

I'm with Lara on this one. I started knowing that I was supposed to be a girl at the tender age of 4. Back in those days, we didn't have tv, internet, in fact I didn't even go to school yet.... So I'm thinking that society had little to do with what I knew was inside of me and my desire to be girl....

Still a good thread.... love to hear what others think....

Renne.....

[AshleeM]

In my own case I think my parents caused me to crossdress, I will elaborate. Also, I want to preface this by saying I love my mother and father very much, I think my dad is the best in the world and harbor no ill will towards him.

When I was 4 to 5 I was in love with Barbies and doll houses and generally all things girly. To top it all off my mother dressed me up as an angel when I was 5 for Halloween complete with cute white tights and an outfit that looked suspiciously like a dress. My being in a house with two older brothers and my father having grown up with 4 brother of his own it was immediately seen as a bad thing for my mother to be doing this and my father in his own words "didn't want his son to grow up to be a queer". So instead of letting me go through this phase that boys sometimes do, I was not allowed to express myself outwardly. Still my mother and grandmother somewhat indulged me by buying me movies such as Cinderella and Snow White, I even had a huge dollhouse at my Grandmothers that I would play with, my father didn't approve but it wasn't his house and he could see how much joy I got from it. But for the most part, my feminine feelings were repressed so I focused inwards, I would imagine myself as Cinderella at the ball or as Dorthy on the yellow brick road and revel in those fantasies, it was only a matter of time before I went all the way and started dressing up. By this time I was around 7-8 years old and that was when I had my first crossdressing experience. I found myself playing in my grandmothers closet and saw a beautiful red dress with polka dots on it, I just had to try it on! Needless to say I did so in record time, stripping down to my underwear and just enjoying the feel of it on my body (Fun fact, when my grandmother passed away in 2010, I managed to actually find this dress again, I am wearing it in my avatar pic and have pictures posted online of me in it.)

Of course once Pandora's box is open, its impossible to close, I began dressing every chance I had. I really started dressing hardcore when I was in junior high, my mom pulled me out of school and began homeschooling me so that left ample time to indulge myself, my mother began "losing" articles of clothing and I began "finding" them. I have one particular memory of an early morning during my homeschooling years, when I decided to put on a bra and panties and play around on my computer, my mother could of walked in on me at anytime but I didn't care. This was before I had figured out masturbating so I was just enjoying the feel of the clothes I guess. Eventually I went back to regular school in my 9th grade year and my dressing stopped being as often but I would indulge whenever I could.

The rest is history and that path has led me to today, January 31 of 2013, where I am wearing panties right now as I type this hahahah :)

[Ariamythe]

Certainly, society has something to do with it. After all, crossdressing is itself a concept that relies on social barriers that delineate man and woman. But there also has to be something inside us that wants to rail against that barrier. Is it nature or nurture? Both.

@ReneeB: But you were still raised as a boy. I'm sure your parents dressed you in certain colors, gave you certain toys, etc. whatever was in you needed *something* to reject.

[Amy Lynn3]

I feel it begins while we are in the womb. For myself I was crossdressing, before my memory started to record. My Mom told me how I would wear my sisters cloths and created a stash of her things, before I started to remember my crossdressings. About age 4, I remember wearing my Mom's OBG and panties. Society did not have an opportunity to influence me, as we had no TV, internet, only family members and family friends.

[AshleeM]

I feel it begins while we are in the womb. For myself I was crossdressing, before my memory started to record. My Mom told me how I would wear my sisters cloths and created a stash of her things, before I started to remember my crossdressings. About age 4, I remember wearing my Mom's OBG and panties. Society did not have an opportunity to influence me, as we had no TV, internet, only family members and family friends.

Good point about it beginning in the womb, I've read that in mothers who have all boys there is a higher chance of one being gay or otherwise not like other boys. It holds true in my case as I have 3 brothers, no sisters and I am an avid CDer, I'm sure others buck the curve though. I wish some real research could be done on a subject like this, I want answers for my own curiosity!

[Jenniferathome]

In my own case I think my parents caused me to crossdress, ...

Everything you wrote shows a cross dresser at young age and has no relationship to what your parents did or did not do. You were not "pushed." Parents, generally, do not embrace boys in this "phase." They want to quash it. While there are rare stories to the contrary, they tend to be more current. Once costume doth not a cross dresser make.

[Leslie Langford]

In my own case I think my parents caused me to crossdress, I will elaborate. Also, I want to preface this by saying I love my mother and father very much, I think my dad is the best in the world and harbor no ill will towards him.

When I was 4 to 5 I was in love with Barbies and doll houses and generally all things girly. To top it all off my mother dressed me up as an angel when I was 5 for Halloween complete with cute white tights and an outfit that looked suspiciously like a dress. My being in a house with two older brothers and my father having grown up with 4 brother of his own it was immediately seen as a bad thing for my mother to be doing this and my father in his own words "didn't want his son to grow up to be a queer". So instead of letting me go through this phase that boys sometimes do, I was not allowed to express myself outwardly. Still my mother and grandmother somewhat indulged me by buying me movies such as Cinderella and Snow White, I even had a huge dollhouse at my Grandmothers that I would play with, my father didn't approve but it wasn't his house and he could see how much joy I got from it. But for the most part, my feminine feelings were repressed so I focused inwards, I would imagine myself as Cinderella at the ball or as Dorthy on the yellow brick road and revel in those fantasies, it was only a matter of time before I went all the way and started dressing up. By this time I was around 7-8 years old and that was when I had my first crossdressing experience. I found myself playing in my grandmothers closet and saw a beautiful red dress with polka dots on it, I just had to try it on! Needless to say I did so in record time, stripping down to my underwear and just enjoying the feel of it on my body (Fun fact, when my grandmother passed away in 2010, I managed to actually find this dress again, I am wearing it in my avatar pic and have pictures posted online of me in it.)

Of course once Pandora's box is open, its impossible to close, I began dressing every chance I had. I really started dressing hardcore when I was in junior high, my mom pulled me out of school and began homeschooling me so that left ample time to indulge myself, my mother began "losing" articles of clothing and I began "finding" them. I have one particular memory of an early morning during my homeschooling years, when I decided to put on a bra and panties and play around on my computer, my mother could of walked in on me at anytime but I didn't care. This was before I had figured out masturbating so I was just enjoying the feel of the clothes I guess. Eventually I went back to regular school in my 9th grade year and my dressing stopped being as often but I would indulge whenever I could.

The rest is history and that path has led me to today, January 31 of 2013, where I am wearing panties right now as I type this hahahah :)

Just curious, Ashlee - out of the 3 boys in your family, what do you think caused you to be the one to get all this special "girly" attention that you feel helped steer you into the direction of crossdressing? Was it because you were the youngest, and there were no further prospects of eventually adding daughter to the family, or were you simply the most receptive to this kind of influence - advertent or otherwise?

[DianeDeBris]

Far too many of us started at an age when society had little or no sway upon us. I say no.
I agree that many if not most of us started in our earliest years; I can't agree, however, that this was before society had an effect on us. Newborns are wired to be observing and figuring out how the world works, most likely pre-birth; babies' work is to determine how things work, and that process certainly is actively under way from the earliest days. Babies figure out how to get reactions and get their needs met, long before they have language. They figure out who is attentive, or safe, or rough, or inept, or dangerous, and who is not. They figure out who does what, and they create tentative models (understandings) of all this and more, and they base all this on the entire sample of society they experience - that is, based on immediate family and then close family, which for quite a while is the only society they're aware even exists. This suggests, BTW, why it is such a common experience for young people to be astonished when they encounter bits of a wider society that does not conform to the tiny society (ie, family) to which they're accustomed. So I agree that children are largely aware of the larger units of society for many years; but they are keenly, astutely attuned to all of society and its rules, to the extent they see a society around them; and this process begins at the dawn of consciousness.

[Rachelakld]

at the age of 4 I used my big sisters bike once, I didn't want anyone thinking I was a sissy boy (that would have been inappropriate), so I imitated being a girl. I lived the in country, I would go bush with my cowboy tent at the age of 5 - we didn't own a TV, and I would return home after dark. I had guns, bow & arrows, I always used my dads tools and I always wanted to be just like my dad. I've never seen him in girls clothes - Why is no longer important to me

[Wildaboutheels]

NO, men's VISION and the way it affects our brains and O N L Y men's brains is the "root" of most CDing plain and simple. "Society" is simply a convenient EXCUSE/scapegoat for many here to stay hidden.

And THIS ^^^^^ is the WHY that so few women will ever figure "it" out. Regardless of how long they have been here. Evolution is omnipotent and female's VISION simply can't/won't work like a man's for their own protection. No Rocket Science to it at all.

It's Animal Instinct and nothing else.

[AshleeM]

Just curious, Ashlee - out of the 3 boys in your family, what do you think caused you to be the one to get all this special "girly" attention that you feel helped steer you into the direction of crossdressing? Was it because you were the youngest, and there were no further prospects of eventually adding daughter to the family, or were you simply the most receptive to this kind of influence - advertent or otherwise?


Everything you wrote shows a cross dresser at young age and has no relationship to what your parents did or did not do. You were not "pushed." Parents, generally, do not embrace boys in this "phase." They want to quash it. While there are rare stories to the contrary, they tend to be more current. Once costume doth not a cross dresser make.

@Jenniferathome I agree they were signs of a young crossdresser but I believe that if I was allowed to play with doll houses etc and it was not treated as something inherently wrong then the phase would have passed on normally and I would have never felt the need to start crossdressing. My father was vehemently opposed to any signs of girlishness in his sons, the way he treats and speaks about my gay cousin, his nephew, I can only imagine what he thought when I expressed a desire to play with dolls and showed interest in movies like Cinderella. I'm not saying it was the costume and movies, it was his reaction towards those events which drove me to repress those feelings and eventually the dam my young mind had formed due to his anger burst. My mother has told me they had some big fights over this subject, she leaned more towards my side of the fence, as in let him express himself and if it continues then we will deal with it. He was strongly opposed to that viewpoint and not afraid to show it.

@Leslie Langford Like many others have said about there early lives, my mother wanted a daughter but instead got 4 sons. One correction though, I am not the youngest, I am the third child, I have another brother 3 years younger than me. Out of all my brothers I am the smallest and always have been so I guess you could say I was the most receptive to that sort of influence because I always felt different. My other 3 brothers heavily favor my father, while I am the exact opposite and favor my mother and inadvertently I heavily favor her own father. When I was born only one grandparent had not passed away, my mothers mother and she as well favored me much more than any of my other brothers. I suspect it was because I reminded her so much of her late husband. My mother and I spent alot of time together, as I mentioned earlier she pulled me out of junior high and I pretty much spent everyday of 2 and a half years with her until I went back to highschool. I would go out shopping with her, help her at the nursery at our local church, almost everytime she went out I went too. 12-14 are influential years for a young boy and I can't help but think that her decision to homeschool me during that time had an affect on my development.

I always say everything happens for a reason, I love who I have become and don't want to change anything about myself nowadays but when I was younger I hated my life at some points. I'm sure many here can echo this thought but I think my life would have been easier if I had just been born a girl.

But as the great Bruce Lee says "Do not pray for an easy life, pray for the strength to endure a difficult one" and thankfully I found the strength to endure it, otherwise I might not be here to have this conversation.

[gina_edwards]

Margo hi i am not sure where you coming from with this thread sorry i have read it 3 times cheers gina

[sometimes_miss]

This is just another thread in the endless search for some outside reason to blame our crossdressing on. Me, I'm half to blame. My abuser planted the seeds of the concept, and I foolishly did things to support it. Sure, I was too young to know the damage I was doing to myself, but I did it. There are always options in life, and I chose the wrong ones. And I live with the irreversible results every single damn day.

[Kathy4ever]

I don't think society is to blame or there would be even more of us than there are. I believe there is something inside us that makes us do the stuff we do. In my case I think all the commercials that tend to be about feminine apparel, makeup, shoes, and many more products has swayed me more towards the fem ways .It just seems every break it is a product for woman. Many males this has no effect on. So why did it affect me? I don't know and don't sit around pondering the question, I just enjoy myself. I kinda go with the thinking "it is what it is".

[Beverley Sims]

The same way a pretty girl on the sidewalk causes vehicle collisions.

[Kate Simmons]

It's doubtful. Society at large is more of an effect than a cause for CDing.:)

[Foxglove]

If all clothing was unisex, crossdressing could not exist. Society ultimately determines the definitions of femininity & masculinity.


I think that when we're talking about "society", we need to remember that "society" is just people. There's no vague, amorphous beast called "society" that is independent of the people that make it up.

So when we say, "Society ultimately determines the definitions of femininity & masculinity", we're saying that "people ultimately determine the definitions of femininity and masculinity"--which is hardly surprising. Or it wouldn't be if it were true. I'm not sure it is.

There are after all very real biological differences between men and women, and those biological differences extend to the brain, which means that there are very real psychological differences between men and women. We didn't invent them. Nature did. So it's no surprise if our clothing, behavior, etc., often reflect these differences.

(My son and I were once discussing the question, why women go to the loo in pairs or groups. Can you imagine some fellow saying to his friends, "Hey, lads, let's go the loo!"?

We came up with a theory: way back when, in prehistoric times, if a man was out in the wild and felt a call of nature, it was no problem. He's on his feet, spear in one hand, tool in the other, and he can keep a lookout all around him. He's OK. But a woman, because of her anatomy, has to squat down and that leaves her very vulnerable. That being the case, wouldn't she really like to have somebody with her to watch her back?

We figure there must have been a gene that predisposed women to do their business in groups. The women who had it survived, the women who didn't perished miserably. So the gene is universal among women these days, which is why they all still go to the loo in groups, even though there are stalls in which they're perfectly safe and special rooms to use in which they don't have any beasts to fear except T-girls.)

So nature creates certain differences between the sexes, and often enough people go with that. There's always been distinctive clothing for the sexes. Even these days when women have largely abandoned skirts, their clothing is still noticeably "feminine". How often do you see a woman about whom you'd say, "She's dressed like a man!"

It's true to say that clothing isn't unisex because "society" doesn't want it that way--that is, because by and large people don't want it that way. Why is that on formal occasions a suit and tie is considered proper for a man and a dress for a woman? Because that's what people have agreed on. There's not some bogeyman "society" above them forcing them to make those decisions.

If people began to decide they no longer agreed on what was previously agreed on, could things change? When I was young, by and large people agreed that a dress was a proper thing for a woman to wear most of the time. Women decided they no longer agreed with that. They decided they were going to dress differently, and there was nothing men could do about it. (Men aren't always as powerful as they're held to be.)

So it's not "society" that frowns on CDing. It's the vast majority of people who do. That's not really news, is it?

Annabelle

[Lacey New]

Ah the great debate - nature or nurture? I'm not a psychologist by any means but from what I have gathered through my own experience and perhaps in part through the shared experience of others on this forum (believe me, I am not speaking for everyone here - so please don't take exception) that crossdressing might be a little bit of nurture as well as nature.

Many of us started by wearing a piece of female garb and in most cases there was a sensation of excitement or feeling good and for many of us, as we reached or passed puberty, sexual arousal. That's probably the "nurture" part because we were rewarded by the feelings and the outcome we wanted to repeat the reward. Now, I daresay, there probably are a lot of men out there who had the same opportunities we did with mothers, sisters, aunts, cousins etc garments available to them. Probably many checked them out in some form or fashion and decided, "Not for me".

I guess that's where we get into the "nature" part. For some inexplicable reason, we keep coming back. The fact that we continue to crossdress has more to do with us as indivuduals than what society in general thinks or does. Besides, we are all swimming against the current anyway.

[Maria S]

When non crossdressing men and women wear their clothes it is just "clothes wearing" and they get on with their daily lives. If all clothes were unisex I feel crossdressers would lose some of the appreciation of dressing as it would be passed off as society's norm.

Maria

[PertyX]

Clearly some of it is genetic, some of it influenced by society...

Mine has started only very recently largely as a reaction to 25+ years working in a misogynistic, homophobic, narrow-minded, all-male environment.

[Cheryl T]

I side with the NO's.
I began at an age far too young to even know what society was let alone be influenced by it's pressures.
My personal belief is that it is inherent, genetic or something of the sort. Perhaps a hormonal imbalance in the womb that caused me to have inclinations towards the feminine in a greater degree than the average male.

[thewife/soon2bex]

In my personal quest to discover why I crossdress, I pose questions to myself. My initial postulate is ' Do society's mores cause our desire of crossdressing?' If all clothing was unisex, crossdressing could not exist. Society ultimately determines the definitions of femininity & masculinity.
I also believe our general tastes are formed during our prepubescent years.

Just releasing the overflow of excess synaptic activity.

OK.. I'm a gg and confused because everyone has always told me its what liked, not what society tells them? I believe that it is who you are. I believe if it was unisex on clothes women would find some way to be different (nails, hair etc) and if you are crossdresser, you would want that. Just my thoughts