At which point are you considered a crossdresser?

[Tibby]

I'm a fan of "the Rocky Horror Picture Show", have been ever since I was a wee one, loved the music, the outfits and the fact that practically everone I knew, from all walks of life, enjoyed the film or the live shows. The shows are still going strong even now.

Something has me wondering though, at every single live show no matter where it is performed a large proportion of the audience go dressed up in all sorts of outfits, from basque with stockings and suspenders to ball gowns. I have seen all sorts of outfits at the shows.
I also see fans of the show discuss what outfits they are going to wear and asking for tips and advice on make up to how to walk in the heels, yet these are men who do not consider themselves a crossdresser, they are just men who are going out to have fun at a live show, but wearing various feminine clothes and enjoying it.

I have also been to fancy dress parties where the theme is "vicar's and tarts", the women dress as vicars and the men as tarts. Yet again this is classed as doing it for fun so not considered crossdressing.

So at what point is it actually considered crossdressing?

[linda allen]

............. So at what point is it actually considered crossdressing?
It's at whatever point you consider it to be. There are no rules.

[Ariamythe]

Strictly speaking, whenever a man wears clothes intended for women or women for men, they're crossdressing regardless of the circumstances. Any man who attends RHPS in stockings is crossdressing. When a guy on SNL dons a wig and skirt for a comedy sketch, he's crossdressing. When a girl wears her boyfriends' boxers to bed, she's crossdressing. The core definition of "cross-dressing" in any dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crossdresser) is just that simple.

What you're asking, I think, is at what point does it become trangendered crossdressing. Because I think that's the differentiation here. The guy who wears a Frank N. Furter outfit to a RHPS event is doing it because participating in the event is fun, and the clothes are part of the event. The guy in a dress for a comedy skit is doing it for laughs. The girl wearing her boyfriend's boxers is doing it maybe because she finds it sexy, or *he* finds it sexy.

But at some point in the spectrum crossdressing itself becomes the point. If the RHPS fan starts donning his fishnets when he's alone at night just for the pleasure of wearing them, he's crossed a line. He's no longer just doing it to be part of the crowd; he's doing it because something in him enjoys it. That's the transgender element, the point where someone stops merely crossdressing and starts being a crossdresser.

At least, that's how I see it. YMMV.

[Kate Simmons]

Beats me Tibby. Technically if we are wanting to emulate women or just strut our stuff, I guess that may be the difference. I use the clothing as a vehicle to express how I feel and mostly use the term "crossdressing" for convenience for mutual understanding.:)

[Beverley Sims]

Cross dressing has varying degrees of conformity from a simple costume impersonation to fully made up to appear as a person of the opposite sex.

[Jenniferathome]

For me it is when you are dressing for the purpose of wearing women's clothes. Now, I suspect 99% of the RH fans that go in thigh highs and bustier are really cross dressers, just like Halloween dressers. As for your dinner parties.... yes, they are likely closeted cross dressers. Generally, you can't get a guy to dress like that unless it's a total joke and they won't be dressed "properly." For example, they'll be wearing boxers under their skirt.

[I Am Paula]

The first time you said to yourself, "I would love to get into her pants", and then wondered if they would fit, you became a crossdresser.-Celeste

[Karren H]

"When you know what everything is called and how its properly worn and don't need assistance putting it on.... "

Right out of the first chapter of the rule book! lol

[katlee]

I think it is when you are dressing for yourself. Some guys dress to make a spectacle or for a frat rush. Whether it is sexually or just makes you feel good when you dress in woman's clothing you are cding :)

[Stephanie47]

A man putting on theatrical makeup to darken his skin to represent himself in a role in a play as a Native American does not make him a Native American. A guy putting on a dress and makeup on Halloween because the theme of the party is 'switching' roles does not make him a cross dresser.

I also do not think, contrary to some others on this site, a man wearing feminine panties is not a cross dresser. I feel that represents a fetish dresser.

I think cross dressing involves intentionally emulating a woman on a psychological level.

[Laura28]

I agree with Katlee, when you are doing it for yourself. If you derive pleasure from it, being sexual or just a calming or self forfillment from it, you are a crossdresser.

[becky77]

Interesting question but I have known a lot of so called normal guys that really enjoyed that night at the fancy dress party dressed as a girl! So many men are quick to try it and often enjoy it.
But as a crossdresser like us rather than just the simple term of wearing the opposite genders clothes, then I would say it's if your doing it for your own reasons. Rather than as a joke or fancy dress or some other reason that is most likely one off.

[reb.femme]

It's at whatever point you consider it to be. There are no rules.

Yes there are rules! Karren just quoted from The Book!

Actually Tibby, when you've seen all the conflicting arguments, assimilated all the info and then confused the hell out of yourself, you'll be left with one question. At which point are you considered a crossdresser?

Seriously, this is the labels thread that gets to do the rounds every now and again, and no-one has the answer, as we all have differing points of view. But if you must, I go with a lot of what Stephanie47 said.

It's just my point of view that is absolutely correct. I know this to be true, as I overheard my wife telling her friend that I'm never wrong in an argument. That's why I love her. :heehee:

Rebecca

[Lorileah]

Labels labels labels. If you want to be called a cross dresser then you can be a cross dresser. There are no official rules (well except Karren's book which she does not share with anyone :)) The use of these words just help when we are discussing certain aspects.

[NicoleScott]

Some definitions of crossdresser add "for emotional or sexual pleasure" to the act of wearing the clothes. Not much doubt as to sexual pleasure, but emotional pleasure could be a lot of things. So, by this restriction of purpose, dressing for theatrical or monetary reasons (drag queens, female impersonators, etc.) may not be crossdressing, just costuming.

[Foxglove]

When you start feeling an urge to do it and that makes you feel guilty and ashamed of yourself--then you're a crossdresser. Contact our office. We'll issue you a membership card.

Annabelle

[Tibby]

As we are aware of the diverse range of views and reasons given by members here, you just have to look to Reine's thread about the reasons why you CD, some do dress to emulte the full persona of a woman and others do CD because they enjoy the feel and look of wearing feminine clothes, yet all here consider themselves to be crossdressers.

If the dressing causes enjoyment, even as a one off, would this not be viewed as the same?

I just wonder if society see's crossdressing as such a taboo subject because it is something which is secretly enjoyed by all and so attempts to overcompensate
by refusing to accept those who openly, or secretly, dress. A bit like the typical school bully, too much of a coward to actively stand up for what they feel is right or want to do, feel jealous towards those who do have the courage or ability to excell, so feel the need to ridicule them to try and appease their own failings.

One thing I have always noticed at the RHPS live events, there never are any problems with violence, fighting, abuse etc. They are fantastic, friendly nights with a party atmosphere. Though you do see many faces several times, so not all are one offs.

I guess it does make a really good excuse to get dressed up and go out to a fun night of entertainment for those who are worried about passing or nervous about a reaction to them being en femme ;)

[Jenniferathome]

One thing I have always noticed at the RHPS live events, there never are any problems with violence, fighting, abuse etc. They are fantastic, friendly nights with a party atmosphere. Though you do see many faces several times, so not all are one offs.

I guess it does make a really good excuse to get dressed up and go out to a fun night of entertainment for those who are worried about passing or nervous about a reaction to them being en femme ;)

There is a great difference being in a place where you know you won't be judged for cross dressing vs the "real world." The only thing about Rocky Horror is that if you dress, you HAVE TO be out there. on stage or in front of the screen singing and dancing. Now THAT would be an interesting first time out.

[Lynn Marie]

From what I can see, every man on the planet has a deathly fear of being labled as "gay". How do you ever expect to ever get laid when all the girls think your gay? Therefore, no guy in his right mind is going to be caught dead wearing women's clothes. That said, there are a few occasions such as Halloween, the aforementioned "Rocky Horror" show, and the "Vicars and tarts" where a man can get dressed up without compromising his reputation.

So how many of the men getting dressed for those special occasions really love the feeling and would embrace crossdressing in a flash if they weren't so afraid of the consequences? Also, how many men won't even partake in the festivities for the same fears, but secretly would love to?

[Shiny_toes]

Seeing as females can wear anything without fear of ridicule, guys have got a pretty shit deal.

[Tibby]

Seeing as females can wear anything without fear of ridicule, guys have got a pretty shit deal.

Some guys do sweety but you have a pretty good deal as you're married to me :D

[Shiny_toes]

My nails need painting :)

[Tibby]

My nails need painting :)

Not anymore they don't, pretty shiny pink again and I even gave you flowers and butterflies, now shush you're taking this off topic :heehee:

[Julie Denier]

I think I considered myself a crossdresser after the first time I fully dressed up, including wig and makeup - and knew I wanted to do it again and again ;)

[Vinyl Girl]

I guess for me it was when I dressed as a woman, looked in the mirror and really liked what I saw. It was a real turn-on and it also made me feel really good about myself. I came to the realization that I like myself better as a woman than as a man. I feel as though I make a better looking woman than I do a masculine man (actually I’d rather have it that way).

[NathalieX66]

When one paints one's toe nails. ...especiallyif it's pink.

Sorry , I really don't know.

Peace&love.
Me.

[Jenniferathome]

I think we have all forgotten the obvious: the written test followed by the walking in heels examination. Doh! Can't certified with out them!

[Mikkigurll]

I'm 62 years young. I have been "dressing" since I was 5. Not continually, but, as much as possible until I was out of my mothers house. My second wife participated as long as I kept it to ourselves. But, she wouldn't allow me to shave my beard. My present wife of 21 years approves and encourages it. I do NOT consider myself a transvestite, as that sounds to clinical to me. I DO consider myself a cd and am proud of it. I was passable for many years, but, not so much anymore. In fact, my wife and I were on Geraldo in 1994.

[LaraPeterson]

Nat-A-Leee, surely you meant RED! I love this kind of question and discussion. I'd bet if we put 100 CD's in a room and ask for an answer, we'd get at least 500 opinions. Some guys like panties, some don't. Some only wear stockings, others only wear pantyhose. Some wear panties with their pantyhose, others can't imagine doing such a thing. . .and on, and on, and on.

Certainly, the moment we cross the boundary of accepted social standards as far as dress is concerned, we are crossdressing. People do it all the time without a thought, especially females. Hopefully, in our lifetimes, it won't be such a big deal.

[sometimes_miss]

<snip>I also see fans of the show discuss what outfits they are going to wear and asking for tips and advice on make up to how to walk in the heels, yet these are men who do not consider themselves a crossdresser, they are just men who are going out to have fun at a live show, but wearing various feminine clothes and enjoying it.

I have also been to fancy dress parties where the theme is "vicar's and tarts", the women dress as vicars and the men as tarts. Yet again this is classed as doing it for fun so not considered crossdressing.

So at what point is it actually considered crossdressing?
If you mean to intentionally wear the outfit of a female to emulate females, those guys dressing like Frank N Furter probably aren't it, they're emulating a guy in a movie who have female admirers. Football fans that wear the jerseys of their favorite players aren't necessarily football players either. Especially when a man is emulatiing a famous person or persona, in this case a transvestite that clearly has female admirers, it may mean nothing at all other than trying to 'get' those females to be interested in himself as well. Men will do pretty much anything to be attractive to women if we think they'll have sex with us. I normally would never consider dressing up for halloween as the back end of a horse, but if the front end was a girl who found it to be a turn on for her, I'll do it in a second.....not to mention the obvious fun of being in the close proximity to her in that particular position as well.

[CassandraSmith]

So at what point is it actually considered crossdressing?

When it's no longer about theater and it becomes about inner identity and internalized feminine self image.

[flatlander_48]

My guess is the point at which one wants to wear women's clothes (or undergarments) without the excuse of going to a party, Halloween, etc. In other words, the idea stands on its own merits and doesn't need some external reason to prop it up.

[Tibby]

People do it all the time without a thought, especially females. Hopefully, in our lifetimes, it won't be such a big deal.

This is how I'd always viewed it, women crossdress all the time but that's socially acceptable yet it's not socially acceptable for a man to do it. Society seems to be quite fickle it seems when it comes to what is acceptable. It is expected that when attending something like RHPS a man will be dressed in what ever way he feels is appropriate for the venue and for his enjoyment of that venue, the odd ones out are the ones who dress in drab. Dressing in some aspects is actively encouraged yet frowned upon as society sees fit.

There seems to be a wide range of views as to what is considered crossdressing. The views here have stated various points and more often feelings related to dressing, yet society has a very black and white view that CDing is simply wearing clothes of the opposite gender. Ironically some with the black and white view have attended venues such as RHPS and dressed for the event.

The more time I spend here, reading what you all have to say, taking note of your opinions I do find myself being educated to the world of CDing. I had always been of the opinion that it's only the clothes which change but the person stays the same. While I do still believe the persona stays the same I am seeing it is a lot more complex and with various levels of crossdressing.

[SarahFxoxo]

I think being a crossdresser is when you have a geniune desire to look female. If you just put on a dress for halloween or a party but don't care, you're not a crossdresser.

[darla_g]

It's at whatever point you consider it to be. There are no rules.

Best answer in this thread!