Correcting misgendering?

[sandra-leigh]

Inspired in part by arbon's thread:

At what point in your transition did you start asking people to refer to you by your real gender?

I get misgendered a lot (especially by taxi drivers), and I get the distinct urge tell the people that I am not "Sir". But I sigh and go on without saying anything, a bit hurt but surviving any one instance.

About all that I have come up with for why I have not been correcting them is that (A) I avoid unproductive trouble; (B) I don't feel like explaining myself over and over again; and (C) I've seen my share of fragile trans people for whom every glance or misgendering was a personal affront, and I don't want to be like those people.

Is there a particular milestone you waited for before you started speaking up, or did you just get to a point where you'd lived through enough misgendering and started prodding back against it?

[Rianna Humble]

Unless the misgendering is persistent and / or deliberate or it is malicious, then I tend to let it slide. I have always tried to live my life on the basis that you should not attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity.

In an extreme case, such as happened to me in a hospital last summer, I make a formal complaint. In these cases, I pursue it rigorously until I get a firm assurance that the person involved will not be allowed to treat someone else the way that I was treated.

Every instance of misgendering is hurtful, but it is similar to being stung by bees. One sting and you can usually get over it, a whole swarm can cause irreparable harm.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I have never been misread (good gens I suppose) but it seems to me that if you're are not willing to correct people who use the wrong gender towards you, then you have no one to blame except yourself.

I simple "EXCUSE ME!" immediately after the wrong gender utterance should solve your problem.

[kellycan27]

I have never been misread (good gens I suppose) but it seems to me that if you're are not willing to correct people who use the wrong gender towards you, then you have no one to blame except yourself.

I simple "EXCUSE ME!" immediately after the wrong gender utterance should solve your problem.

Ms post-op

Yup.... You're post-op. things must really be wonderful in post-OP USA. How so you deal with it? Perfect breasts, pretty and ultra functional vagina... Never been mis-read. What an awesome responsibility ... How do you do it and still remain so modest and humble? :eek:

[sandra-leigh]

Please -- no personal disputes in this thread!

Misgendering reminds me of the "Chinese Water Torture" -- any one drop is no problem, but over time...

"EXCUSE ME" doesn't really fit my personality. And it's not very Canadian :) "Eh?" would be more Canadian, but it would still lead into having to explain myself. I'd probably end up closer to "Urrr, it's M'am; I'm not a guy."

[Beverley Sims]

If the misgendering quote is coming from someone who knows, quietly edicate them and then stomp on them if it is malicious.
From taxi drivers or other casual meetings, accept what they say and take a closer look at yourself.
Maybe your features, hairdo etc. have not softened enough yet. Maybe a poor makeup job.
There is less stress by letting it slide and one day when you notice less and less "sir's" and more "mam's" you can hold your head higher and say to yourself...
"I am improving."

[sandra-leigh]

Maybe your features, hairdo etc. have not softened enough yet. Maybe a poor makeup job.

My individual facial features range from neutral to female, except that my head is taller. Which is something that doesn't soften up. Oh yes, and my nose is sort of Gaulish (Roman really). My sister was lucky enough to get female cheekbones; my mother's side and I are all neutral that way.

I have been occasionally been mistaken for my mother by people who know my mother, when if they do not happen to see my face full on. And yet even with professional makeup and professional wig and dress and heels, I have been Sir'd.

[Nicole Erin]

Just smile politely and say "It is ma'am". More lady-like that way. If you get defensive, that would be like if some dude got called "ma'am" and you KNOW how fragile male egos are.

If one get's "sir'ed" in the way of "yes sir" that might be more forgivable cause "yes sir" seems to have a natural flow to it and I assume a lot of GG'd might hear that cause of some knee-jerk reaction but anyways

[noeleena]

Hi.

It should be more likely i'd get him, sir, or that guy , seems not , theres nothing feminine female or woman about my face that would sugest im a... bloody... woman. let alone a female ,

well im a member of women only groups so i'd think most wifes husbands know me well enough to know im a woman ,

Maybe one or two are not sure yet other than a few im just a female.

...noeleena...

[AllieSF]

Nicole said it for me. If you are tired of correcting people, so be it. If not, I think Nicole has a nice way of letting the other person know that they were mistaken in their original perceptions.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

my thought would be to just try and live in the moment.

you have a good chance of knowing in the moment where the misgendering is coming from..

based on last couple of posts i hope you can somehow find a girlfriend to hit a movie with..i think that would help you alot...

[Laurie Ann]

I have been sir'd and ma'amd all in the same day I try to consider my appearance as to a response. I generally just shake my head and move on not worth my time.

[Sara Jessica]

I just have a hard time understanding why some Muggles insist on using "sir" with an individual who is clearly presenting as female. Case in point, myself. I got sir'ed in the cosmetics department at Macy's last Saturday by a SA. I felt like I was pretty presentable at the time and I found myself so astounded that I didn't say a word to correct her.

While I do expect to be read as being T-something, still...that was uncalled for. She had no way of knowing if I was a CD, a TS, somewhere in between, living full time, part time, etc. I guess it shows how hard it is for some to get their heads around our world.

[Michelle.M]

I have never been misread (good gens I suppose) but it seems to me that if you're are not willing to correct people who use the wrong gender towards you, then you have no one to blame except yourself.

Um, yeah . . . if that approach works for you that's great, but I don't think that's necessary or useful.

Early in my transition I got misread all the time. I mean, like 100% of the time. I didn't like it but I expected it. I didn't look or sound very feminine, so I really couldn't blame them. You just suck it up.

Later on as I began to present better it happened less frequently, but it did happen often enough. My experience at sucking it up gave me the skills to ignore the stares and laughter. Still didn't like it, but I'm pretty sure that in some of those instances as I just continued on my way the critics may have doubted what they thought they had seen. Maybe.

Nowadays I never get read in person (FFS has been very good to me), but I do sometimes get read on the phone when I'm having a bad voice day. I just plow on through as if nothing had happened. If it becomes a hindrance to the conversation I just remind the customer service person on the line that my name is Michelle, and then laugh and say that I haven't quite gotten over my cold. We usually share a laugh and then just get back to business.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Ms post-op

Yup.... You're post-op. things must really be wonderful in post-OP USA. How so you deal with it? Perfect breasts, pretty and ultra functional vagina... Never been mis-read. What an awesome responsibility ... How do you do it and still remain so modest and humble? :eek:


Well Kelly, you know what Doris Day said don't you? QUE Sera Sera!

And why should I be modest? Humble I can be if it is appropriate? But I love life and I LIVE life. I am a very outward gal not introverted.

Do you really want to present gloom and dome and not let other gals know that happiness can be theirs too? And that although a lot of gals go through hell and back during transitions, some don't.

[Beverley Sims]

I have been occasionally been mistaken for my mother by people who know my mother, when if they do not happen to see my face full on. And yet even with professional makeup and professional wig and dress and heels, I have been Sir'd.
Thanks for your answer Sandra, It is appreciated. Looking at your profile pic I would say the other person was just tired and not paying attention.
I have sometime sir'ed very attractive women because my head is spinning with figures and thinking ahead with inquiries.
I have only just made eye contact and not taken the image in that has been presented to me.
Your profile pic shows a woman to me and it may be the voice as I have not heard your voice.
All I can say handle those frustrating moments with dignity and do as you do by not rocking the boat.
I believe it does get better.
Maybe you do look like your mother, I am sure you don't look like your father.
I have edited this as I am tired and I was partly answering another misgendering post here.
If I have something more constructive I will post it.
You have probably reached that milestone you talk of in appearance.
Maybe mannerisms, deportment and voice.
Cheers,
Beverley.

[arbon]

It depends - people who know me, friends, relatives - I will always correct them. I don't want people to think it is okay or not a big deal.
At work though with my boss and a couple of the co-workers things are delicate and I am not doing anything to cause more trouble there, so I let it go usually when I am mis gendered (pretty much all the time :straightface: ) Its sucks and I feel somewhat powerless to stop it.

Strangers - it depends. Like at the bank yesterday I did not correct her, I just wanted to get out.

[Rianna Humble]

Please take personal disputes to PM.

Rianna Humble
Moderator, Transsexual Forum

[sandra-leigh]

I would appreciate if people could address the question of at what point in your life you started correcting people?

===

The photo in my profile is more than 5 years old, back when I was still more thinking of myself as a cross-dresser (though not without questioning that.).

I have attached a few photos of myself. I do not have much that is recent. The first is April 2011; I had been on HRT 3 months; it is included as it shows how prominent my nose can be. The second is a reasonable full-face piece from almost exactly 1 year ago (13 months on HRT.) The third (full-body) is from the beginning of July last year (15 1/2 months HRT); in the immortal words of Bloom County, "A come-hither beauty you ain't."

It is when I am tired that I look most like my mother. Unfortunately I cannot post comparison shots, as my mother is camera shy.

[Michelle James]

I think with most people it's just an honest mistake so with them I just let it go. Now certain people have a way of saying sir that comes across in the pejorative sense. Like in the sentence Thanks alot sir. With heavy accent on the "sir". Those people I will take the time to correct, but really it's all good.

[Nicole Erin]

I just have a hard time understanding why some Muggles insist on using "sir" with an individual who is clearly presenting as female.

It is what I would like to know.
Maybe there is like this huge population of CD/TS running around and people see it every day and think nothing of it.

I don't know, some people are rude like. I mean what would happen if some manly man got called "ma'am"? He would flip a turd!

Thing with "ma'am" whenever I hear that word, it makes me think of some 80 year old lady. I don't know why. My big sister hates being called that. She is like, "it makes me sound old"

[FurPus63]

This is something I could go on and on about. I've read some of these posts and I have to say although I agree with some who say, "don't take it personally." I have to admit it does bother me. In person I don't get "sired" very often. But I did have an experience yesterday that pissed me off. More on that in a bit. Where I have a problem is on the phone. My voice apparently sounds more masculine over the phone than in person. A lot of people have told me my voice sounds feminine when speaking in person....yet over the phone I get "sir" a lot unless I tell them my name right from the beginning. If I'm called "sir" on the phone, I always correct them with a ,"I'm not a sir, my name is Paulette." That usually does the trick.

I get real mad if they continue to call me sir after I've told them my name. Then I feel they are just being aholes and I get upset. I don't know why it insults me. Maybe I have a problem with self esteem or something.....but the way I feel about it is: A. I'm not ashamed of being a trans girl and I feel I have the right to stick up for my rights when I feel I'm being insulted or whatever. B. I also feel we all need to educate people. The world needs to learn about us. We're growing in numbers as more and more trans girls "come out" and we need to let people know and understand where we're coming from. So I do what I can to do this politely but will give it to someone hard if I feel they are messing with me.

Paulette

[Sara Jessica]

It is what I would like to know.
Maybe there is like this huge population of CD/TS running around and people see it every day and think nothing of it.

I don't know, some people are rude like. I mean what would happen if some manly man got called "ma'am"? He would flip a turd!

Thing with "ma'am" whenever I hear that word, it makes me think of some 80 year old lady. I don't know why. My big sister hates being called that. She is like, "it makes me sound old"

I sincerely believe people don't "sir" us to be rude. I think it's an utter inability to get their head around the TG thing. My own eyes and travels tell me we are not out there in the public eye in great numbers so aside from the blessed stealth contingent from the TS end of the spectrum, all I can do is chalk this up to being perceived as T-something. The Muggle's eyes perhaps convey woman but then some cue conveys male and then the circuits in their brains start mis-firing as to how to process this and voila...out pops the sir.

And while I hear what you are saying about the term ma'am, it still sounds better to my ears than sir any day of the week...at least when I'm presenting as a female because I get "ma'am'ed" and "miss" fairly often as a guy.

But it happened again last night. I was having dinner with Anne and our waiter was just a lump. I could have sworn he said "sir" to me early on but Anne didn't catch it. Still, he was very pedestrian, perhaps due to the trans thing but I'm guessing he was just a crappy server. Near the end of our meal he handed us of to a new waitress who had the most gorgeous smile and made no mistake in calling us ladies from there on out.

Sometimes I have to sigh but in all honesty it would really wear on me if I were full time. I feel for all of you who have to put up with this daily. It'd be nice if more people would just get a clue.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

its a tough thing...

i agree with sara...i'd say 9 of 10 don't mean to be rude...and if you are getting sir'd alot, that is something each of us has to figure out for ourselves..and the "answer" may be different depending on whether you are dressing, transitioned, or in some phase of transition...its about your own feelings, and how you feel in the moment...and what you personally get out of a response...

we are incomprehensible to cisgender people...its hard to get too upset... and the catch 22 is that some people are downright mean and rude...they say it to hurt...and what's the point of wasting one valuable breath on them???

anyway...sandra i saw your pics...your hairline is your problem which you already probably know, your face itself has oodles of femininity to it but its hard to see because your biggest feature is your hairline......maybe i'll get hate for saying it...but we are gendered almost instantly by people... male pattern baldness is going to get you immediately misgendered outside of all other factors, even your clothes...you have a challenge of whether you want to work harder to feminize with makeup, clothes, hair implants or even a hat to deal with misgendering...that's just girlfriend advice because that is a personal thing and totally up to you

[AnneB1nderful]

Being "mis-gendered" is something that happens to some GG's too. I saw this happen the other night at a "pride" event. A GG friend came with her TS girlfriend. An elderly lesbian came up to her and asked, "So, how did you start?" implying that she may not a FAB. Now my GG friend is very much a FAB, no question. She has been around the LGBT community for a while and has never had that question come up. Although believe the beautiful elderly woman has lost many of cognitive faculties, I just wanted to show it could happen to anyone, any where, even in the LGBT community.

I also wanted to point out how good it feels when we are properly gendered. I went to a drive thru and ordered my food in an ok female voice. Went to the window and the cashier says with no reservation, "Ma'am would you like some ketchup...." Wow! He called me "Ma'am". That was such a wonderful feeling. I almost cried driving away.

[CharleneT]

My solution is pretty simple: I do not correct people, I just try harder if I do get clocked. So for me, there isn't really a place where I asked people to change how they referred to me. Really, only the first couple/three weeks. Then I depended on success vs asking someone to change their viewpoint of me.

Early on, of course, this meant a lot of "trying". Now, I don't think about it all that much. Practice practice practice = your solution. Surgeries can help, but the majority of this issue is in your head and actions.


ps I'm not perfect, nor do I want you to come away from my post thinking that is what I believe. A nurse the other day called me "him" - then corrected himself. So, I spent the rest of my shift concentrating a little more on my voice - which is what I think caused his mistake.... You will have to be watchful the rest of your life ( if you transition ). You are never "done". It does get easier.

[sandra-leigh]

My hairline: Yupper, it's a problem now that I use my real hair! The scalp hidden by my hair in those pictures is the bulk of the actual "male pattern baldness". The scalp you do see there is mostly "original equipment": both sides of my family have high hair lines. (Both sides turn out to be important for "male pattern baldness".) My unusually high hair line shows up even in my grade 1 pictures. On the other hand, I was regularly getting Sir'd even when I used to wear long wigs.

I had an unusual exchange tonight. I was out for a bit at night, in a dress and a waist-length jacket. I was waiting in front of the club for a taxi to wonder by; one saw me at a distance turned the corner and waited for me (i.e., would have seen the dress without being able to make out my face.) I walked over and got in, and (using what was left of my regular voice) thanked the driver for noticing me. He asked, "Where would you like to go, M'am?" so I told him. Later on, he asked me for a route preference, and I do believe he said "Sir" that time. "Ah well, he noticed my voice" thought I. And I also decided that if he said Sir when I got out, that I would say something. As he approached my turn, I spoke briefly twice more, just slightly softening my (club-roughened) voice -- more like not making any attempt to project than any real change to my voice. Then when I paid, he distinctly said "M'am" when he thanked me.

So I guess the first time he went by appearance, then adjusted by voice but wasn't sure, and then decided by voice that he must have been right by appearance after all...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i hear you..

this is a quality of life issue, and i all we can do is just our best based on circumstance...
i do beleive getting something done with your hair will make a big difference, and its not nearly as expensive as ffs

[StephanieC]

Well, so far I've never had an adverse comment to me as Stephani. But I'm still in transition and sometimes I do get the "sir" which irritates me until I remember I'm not presenting. Increasingly, this failure for people to see my interior self regardless of my exterior self is causing me more discomfort. Or at least, I seem to think about it more.

-stephani

[kellycan27]

Most of "us"are pretty well schooled in the whole TG deal, but there is a huge segment of the population who have no clue... None!
Most people are schooled in the binary.. There are men and there are women and if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... They call it a duck. Lets face it.... Not everyone who presents as a woman is going to pass as for one.

[Genifer Teal]

Men in general are pre wired to point out - "You didn't fool me!" That is the way I take it when they say sir. In a pack of men they say it for the benefit of the others to no be fooled. I have been thinking alot about this lately. Why is is so important to identify someones gender in order to be polite? "Have a nice day" sound just as good without being followed by sir or mam.

The cab situation happens all the time to me. Probably because they are looking in the mirror and mostly reading by voice. I have lately started correcting them as I pay and leave. BTW, I prefer mam or miss. I don't wish to make a big deal of it, but if you say nothing, nothing will change. Wish I had more courage at other points of purchase ect.