Where is the Love?

[Roberta-Jane]

Long post - my apologies.

Have not been on the site to post for months for a good reason. I was found out by my SO in May when she found some knickers.

To cut a long story short, and after much hard talking and upset, we stayed together and our relationship blossomed both intimately and normally.

Many questions were asked, and promises given by me to her. I believed that for the love of my wife and kids I could give up my CDing. I have since learnt that such promises should not be made but at the time I was so terrified of losing all that I hold dear that I thought that I ( the special person) could achieve it where so many have not. I was very wrong.

6 months of a much happier life began. We had agreed to keep talking as we had talked for hours, days, when she found out, as we felt that this had helped us a lot. However, we did not talk enough, and as things began to slip back to the old ways I strayed again.

Another really major bustup ensued, but due to the love of my wife and her ability to be strong and to try to trust me again when it was probably not due, we are still together and in my opinion better than before. Now we are really talking. Neither of us is afraid to broach or discuss the issues that are between us. Her main gripe was the secrecy that had occured again. She told me (and I feel the same) that I was the love of her life but she did not want to waste the rest of it and that true love might mean letting me go to find myself. That really has made me think hard about what I want and what she needs.

I want to live the rest of my life with this wonderful woman. If that means a reduction or compromise in my life then I am going to have to find a way to reach that goal, hopefully with her along with me.

I get quite cross reading posts on this site where it's all me, me, me, me, me. It seems that some are happy to expect their SOs to make all the running. Lots profess their love but their actions and words suggest otherwise.

So where is the love?

I know many will say that this is a two-way street and that it works the other way as well. Fair enough. But in most cases they did not ask to have a CD as a husband and they did nothing to deserve it. I don't wish to offend anybody it is just the way I see things.

After my experiences, I would suggest that those who have un-accepting SOs perhaps trust their wives by, for a while, reducing their activity thereby showing their partner that THEY are the focus of their hearts and not the CDing.

Talk to them but love them, really love them.

Roberta-Jane

[Dragster]

I agree 110% Roberta Jane. You may have seen from many of my posts that my wife is anti-CD since I told her over 15 years ago! Since I found this site, I've found the confidence to buy "My Husband Betty" to use as a dialogue starter. I read it in April and gave it to her. She agreed to read the first 4 chapters (my suggestion, based on recommendations from here) and then I'd answer truthfully as many questions as she wants to ask, and hope to kick-start a real honest dialogue. So far, she's read less than 2 chapters in spite of gentle nudges. I won't push too hard, I'm not taking the risk of losing her after 36 years ao happy marriage, and yes, I have told her she is by far the most important thing in my life. Doesn't stop me getting frustrated by the lack of progress though! If you know a magic formula to get to acceptance, let me know!

Good luck,
Tony

[Sarahgurl371]

Roberta I absolutely agree. But, maybe what you are reading here in those me, me, me, me, posts is the end result of years of non acceptance, non interest, non discusion, non willingness to learn, by those unaccepting spouses.

My situation, what forced me to overcome fear enough to reach out and join this forum and even contact a local support group on thier help line, was living for a couple of years with a non accepting spouse. Even though, as you suggested, I bent over backwards for her, compromised upon compromise, over and over agian until any shread of my wants and needs was burried.

I will be the first to admit that I haven't done a bang up job with the whole self acceptance thing, and i have had 20+ years at it. How can i expect her to deal with it overnight, in a week, a month? But after 7 or 8 years of partial disclosure, and 2 + years of full and complete total disclosure, nothing. Not even reading a book. How can reading a book hurt anything?

I agree that we who did not disclose this prior to marraige, even those of who did know what this was and how deep it ran, for whatever reason, need to regain our wive's trust, and do everything in our power to show them that they are so very important to us. But, after how long standing stagnant, do we get to say I am who I am, accept it or not? And pursue our own happiness. Marriage is a compromise, and in a healthy marraige both parties should do for the other, without expecting something in return. But some of us have been doing that for so long, and have little hope of even having a meaningful conversation about something that is so very important to us.

I am by know means one of those me, me, me, me, persons. But I am one of the ones who you are asking where is the love? Heck, I think even my wife would agree that I have always put everybody else's feelings in front of mine. She's been telling me for years that I let people walk all over me.

[sherri]

Roberta, I really respect your priorities and I am very moved by your loving attitude. You are to be commended, and I hope your compassion is reciprocated.

I admire you.

[melissacd]

I have agree with Tammy. At some point there has to be reciprocity. A wife is entitled to be upset about the non-discosure. A husband is equally entitled to be heard. Love is about both parties being open and understanding about each other, warts and all. That is what a healthy trusting marriage is. We are who we are and as Gandhi said - Be the change you want to see. Be open, caring, trustworthy, understanding, accepting, communicative, loving, supportive...

[Stephenie]

Roberta,

I can see that your wife and family mean alot to you. But our wifes and family mean a lot to us too. As you have found out Cding is not some thing that can be turned off, forgotten or decided not to do. Some of us only have here to come and talk about how we feel and to share what is a very strong part of us. It is not that it is me me me but that here we have a place to go and share apart of us that is not wanted at home. Here is for some the only place that can be "for me" Please try and look beyond the words to what is being said.

[StephanieH]

Stephenie, you are indeed wise beyond your years and right on target. Work with your wife and try to get her to understand (as though any of us actually do) and in the meantime, use this fantastic site to exchange ideas, vent, and get some much needed spiritual and moral support. This site is great and I read something here every day that makes me just a little bit better off! :)

[Lisa Golightly]

Most problems in relationships affected by CD'ing are often the result of a witholding of the truth. All my other halves have known about Lisa from day one, it kind of makes things fair all round. I know people who have hidden the truth and then seen their relationship collapse due a sudden revelation of the truth.

Can you really blame them? It is equal to finding out you are having an affair. Relationships are built on trust as well as compromise. To hide such an intrinsic and important part of yourself is equal to pretending to be something you are not.

I'm not saying it's perfect... one attempted stabbing and a few slamming doors were the result of my honesty, but for the ones who stayed least they knew they had my total love and that there were no secrets between us... well maybe I did blame the cat for breaking a plate once :p

[Kierci]

Ya know I agree with what you said about 99%. the 1% probably should be posted in the politics thread :) Keep in mind some of us are single so it is all about "ME" till the time comes. I do agree with the open lines of communication this is a must for any kind of relationship with out my feelings are people are just going through the motions, but again in some cases the individual just discovered themselves once into the relationship for a number of years so then what? How do you make your S/O believe that you have not been lying all these years?? I could go on, I think I will stop and support the ladies that are having it tough right now.

[Andrea's Lynne]

Roberta,

I think it took alot of courage to post those thoughts. I happen to agree with your point of view.

Maintaining a marriage (whether with a CD or not) is tough for any couple. Open honest dialog and compromise go a long way to making them work.

Best of luck to you

[Wendy me]

we do ten to have this whole trust and hidding thing going on i meen what for the most of us our so's did not know abought our little hobby and it is a hard thing for them sometimes to understand let alone accpete i am going through some issues with my wife abought this ....yes the me me me thing is easy to think abought but if we realy see the bigger picture it is so much the us us us thing....wen we have a so and familys we can no longer do the me me me thing any more because this becomes a us thing... and it's a better person that can see this as well ....good luck....

[Jocelyn Renee]

Roberta-Jane, great post and a great example of how we can all, regardless of gender-orientation, work to build stronger interpersonal relationships. Posts like these and the discussions that follow help us all to see new points of view and learn something about ourselves in the process. I've only been here a short time, but I think the ladies on this forum "get it" in a way that's rare other places I've been.

I am blessed to be married to an accepting woman who enjoys spending time with her "new girlfriend". But, what if she wasn't accepting? Well, I would certainly expect her to be willing to ask questions, listen, and do a little research to better understand me. I would not, however, expect her to be 100% accepting and willing to totally integrate my femme side into our lives. I would greatly desire that to be the case, but I would not expect it.

There are an awful lot of obstacles on both sides. Our desires are often confusing, even to ourselves. Additionally, many of us find our desires to be a moving target, increasing or changing over time. Some of us make permanent changes to our male appearance, from shaving our bodies to beginning hormones. Some wives may question the own femininity or simply mourn the loss of their masculine, hairy, macho partner.

It would be nice if all wives could accept that many of the reasons they first fell in love with us are directly related to the fact that we CD. It would also be nice if they could accept that deep down we are still the same person. But is that really true 100% of the time? Sure, to us we're the same, but to many wives we decidedly are not the same. It doesn't mean they are bad people or that they don't love us. It just means that our desires aren't compatible.

In the end, some of us will find acceptance and harmony through compromise; others will find that each of them one day reaches a point where compromise makes it impossible to be happy. Sadly, the only way out at that point is for someone to accept that their ideal is simply not possible and either resign themselves to that fate or separate. In that case, hopefully all concerned can see it not as end, but as a chance for a new beginning.

Cheers,
Jocelyn

[Julie]

Roberta-Jane, your words are wise and good advice but sadly it doesn't always work out the way we'd like. I put myself second, or third or fourth, all my life. I tried to be what my parents and brother and sisters and friends wanted. Before I married I told my wife as best as I could explain it. I spent almost a quarter of a century trying to explain it better and get her to understand. She just had no desire to know. Everything you said I did and more. I supressed my feminine side almost completely for ten years for her and my kids.

I've told the story here before so I'm not going to go into it again. But I just wanted to say it doesn't always work out the way we want. My ex has never been a strong person and I know that played a big part in how things fell apart. When I needed her the most she couldn't be there for me. So you have to consider the other people involved. They have to be strong too.

I'm happy things are working out for you. It's always nice to read about someone who is having success and is being accepted.

[CaptLex]

But in most cases they did not ask to have a CD as a husband and they did nothing to deserve it.

Good post, Roberta Jane - well thought out and also well articulated. I have only one teeny tiny nit to pick about it though. :eek: You say, "they did nothing to deserve it" and this sounds like it's a terrible thing to be in love with a CD. I certainly hope not since I think the one who lands me will be lucky to have a CD for a partner. ;)

[Roberta-Jane]

Thank you all for your replies, at first when I posted no-one seemed to be viewing but then I had to be away for a while and the replies came in, so thanks again.

Not an easy subject. I understand from 44 years what it feels like to be in denial and living a lie.

My wife does not accept. She is trying to understand and for that I love her all the more. I do not expect her to necessarily find the answer. We both have to work hard and I feel that it should be me that has to work hardest.

I can understand those of you who say that there has to be at least some meeting of the minds and I agree with that. One of you posted that there must be compromise. Yes. But my compromise and someone else's may be at a different level. We must each find our own route through the minefield.

We must also remember in our desperate search for acceptance that most women want us for our manliness even if we believe that it is tempered by the feminine part of us and makes us what they fell in love with. Our SO's may not see it quite the same way. Mine for one would hate to see my hairy chest go as she loves it.

Withholding the truth is never good but understandable in our case. We fear the ridicule and the shame yet I would be ashamed just as much if I were an abusive alcoholic. I just wish that when I first told my wife 18 years ago that we hadn't let it drift into the closet again.

Wendy is right though. It becomes an US thing. We effectively ( again in most cases) draw our wives into the web of hiding that most of us have to persue. The burden becomes our SO's as well as ours. Some bear it well and some do not. I'm not religious but I remember reaading that 'God never gives us a burden we cannot carry'; well again through no fault of her own, my wife now has to help me with mine. I wonder if I do have the shoulders to carry it. I believe that she does, if we can learn to work together.

I repeat my love for my wife, it is worth fighting for.


Roberta Jane

[vanessaleigh]

This has been a really great thread and interesting to review. I have a very accepting wife, but I think I started where Roberta is coming from.

I told my wife almost eight years ago and although the initial response was "we will just have to work this out" it quickly turned negative and then into denial. I spent the next six years loving my wife with everything I had and not touching anything female (except her!). After six years of agonizing over this whole thing with her, loving and caring for her and talking endlessly together, she finally offered her acceptance.

I am so grateful for that acceptance and for the continued wholeness of my family and 29 years of marriage.

Where is the love? It is in every action we take to care for and meet the needs of our the wife we have pledged our love to. I know that everyone isn't as fortunate as I have been to have a wife that is willing to hold on tight and work it through, but I would say to everyone, do everything you can to help your wife and love her through it. You will both be better for the effort.

Blessings

[sherri]

Where is the love? It is in every action we take to care for and meet the needs of our the wife we have pledged our love to. I know that everyone isn't as fortunate as I have been to have a wife that is willing to hold on tight and work it through, but I would say to everyone, do everything you can to help your wife and love her through it. You will both be better for the effort.

Wonderful words of wisdom, Vanessa.