what changed??

[GabbiSophia]

So I have been thinking about some of the things people have said and how I myself feel about gender. Some people tell me I should let my female self out but really what does this mean? If I change clothes what really changes?? If I get all dolled up what really changes?? I will still like the things I like, I will still want to do the things I already do, and I will still like the people I like... except they will more than likely not want anything to do with me. So what changes?? seems as I look at things more and realize hey I can't be me .. really what does it matter?? .. if I let myself reflect what I want to reflect then I will no longer have the things I like so why would I do this? I am pretty sure life is about a bunch of give and takes. So what really changes if you choose to transition? (not talking medical here btw that is obvious what changes) I would like to think that the clothes we wear does not create or define the gender we are. I know social bla bla bla ..but hell what does that matter? So if life is about give and takes, then giving into one takes way to much from the other. I guess understanding this is what changes but I am pretty darn sure that nothing else does because I am me no matter the clothes I wear...

[Rachelakld]

I have developed a kind of dual personality, boyside loves Sci-Fi and cowboys, drinking beer, fixing stuff, working out, saving money. - girlside loves chic flicks, clothes shopping, spending money and having coffee out.

[stefan37]

The direction we take in life depends in my opinion regarding our GD is how well can you manage and mitigate it to survive. For myself the anxiety was very acute and I suffered daily even with techniques to help mitigate the anxiety. How well can you mitigate yours? You have to ask can I live with this feeling of not being the correct gender? What changed for me was the introduction of estrogen into my system that has resulted in extreme benefit to my mental health. The anxiety went away even though the feeling of the wrong gender has not. HRT changes not only physically but mentally also. I believe the mental changes are more subtle and the overall experience is satisfying because i got relief with no impairment. You are right lots of things you do will not change. You will also experience changes that will cause pain in other ways, such as difficulties with family, friends, employment, loss of your wife. I am experiencing a changed dynamic with my wife that causes us both great pain. So far for me the positive changes that that I am experiencing along with the negative while living my life more authentically is immense.
Only you can determine what course of action is right for you, That is why those farther along say all the time "do not transition unless you have to". You will know when the right time is or not at all. There is no right or wrong, or rulebook to guide you. Get involved with some support groups, meet people as many people you can that have transitioned, are transitioning, or just crossdress. Ask yourself where you might like to be in 5 -10 years down the road. Would you like to grow old as a male? Can you survive on a daily basis being suppressed and hiding your true nature with out it invading your every thought? Again the answer lives within you and how you answer truthfully will determine the path you take.

And you are right many things will not change, many things will change. And the changes that do occur happen not because of your dress, or mannerisms but how it mentally effects your state of being. It is liberating and a tremendous sense of freedom to finally interact with the world as whoever you are authentically.

[Beverley Sims]

Steph,
When you change the clothes the environment around you changes, different circle of friends, places you visit and really a whole lifestyle change.
You still enjoy what you had in the other gender but you do enjoy them less.
You get absorbed into the new moment and try to live it.
When you go back interest in the former becomes diminished, this is when you are changing, you may still be you but you have made a gender shift.
So working back and forth you will gain in one gender and lose in the other.
This is where those mind blowing hormones start to take effect.
I read back on this and wonder do you understand what I have said.
I am trying to answer what you have said.

[SamanthaC]

Clothes are just one way self expression gets out. I'm not sure they have anything at all to do with the changes that embracing the repressed self brings.

People who aren't privy to my actions are already noticing multiple change in me. While they can't identify them specifically, it's more and more evident. Gets hard to dismiss the comments at times. Looking back, I became Samantha in the head months ago. Much of that was tearing down the wrong life which was there, letting go of what I thought I knew about myself. Learning all about myself from scratch. In terms of the old life, I was into motorbikes, cars, hard rock/metal music, and drinking a tonne. Samantha doesn't care for any of that. The cars and bikes are sold/selling. My music collection completely changed, and my lifestyle has changed. In terms of the more personal and social aspects, I move about like the woman I am inside, dress more and more feminine each day. That doesn't even touch the changes actually, but you get the point. Overall, I'm becoming more "polished" each day, and will be for a long time yet.

So Hi!, I'm Sam, in development, but Sam none the less :)

So are you Steph already?

[Starling]

What changes is your identity, both to the public and in yourself. For me, dressing is mostly about being related to as my true self. And this begins to happen with people you interact with regularly, even if you don't always pass. HRT and genital surgery are to make you feel right in yourself, but as long as you keep your clothes on, you can be taken as the woman you are inside without those wonderful things.

How do I feel about growing old as a male? One reason I suspended my transition--in which I was moving full speed ahead--was to give myself time to consider what life would be like for an older genetic male with health challenges making HRT and surgery considerably more risky than they already are; for a genetic male who would be living absolutely full time as a woman nonetheless, with a shaved body and wearing a wig and forms, who had reached that stage in life where one spends more and more time in hospitals, naked and being poked with things, or winding up dead of a heart attack in some public place. That's what I fear, being a mere curiosity and an object of derision, in a time and place where I am powerless.

I hope I didn't take this too far off the thread.

:) Lallie

[GabbiSophia]

not sure is the answer to those that asked if they answered the op .. the things in my life I like are not gender related per say so when I read how HRT changed everything I start to think that maybe people didn't like the things they were doing in the first place plus as we grow older our views and likes change anyways.

Racheal that duality is kinda what I am talking about ... how do you keep sane with the duality of it all as I have read where tons can not?

Guess its back to the therapist again to probe the expreniences she has had ..

[Rianna Humble]

I'm sorry to sound harsh, but your questions sound as if you are coming at this from the perspective of a cross-dresser.

If it was all about clothes, or about getting "all dolled up" then we would have been able to cope with our Gender Dysphoria through cross-dressing.

Transition is all about dealing with the fundamental disconnect between our innate knowledge of who we are and what our bodies reflect out to other people.

If you look into the mirror and are content to see a man looking back at you, then perhaps transition isn't for you at this point in your life. On the other hand if you see a sham, something you know in your heart that has never been true, then perhaps you should give a little more consideration to who you are.

Transition isn't about acting all girly - if that was all it was, then we could have become drag queens (or acting manly/drag kings for our FtM brothers). It is about letting our inner selves reflect out to those around us.

You are right that the fundamentals of who we are don't really change, but they do see the light of day in a different way sometimes. I still like to watch football (the real one that our colonial cousins call soccer :heehee:). I still like to campaign on behalf the under-dogs in society and to do that through political activity, but I no longer have to do that through a cloak of masculinity that I have never really understood.

There are, of course, some slightly more superficial tastes that appear to have changed, but in reality it is more that I no longer have to suppress those things.

What has changed? Well, for one thing, in being free to be the real me, my body has more resources available to keep me well. After 32 years of getting severe bronchitis every winter, I now manage to fight it off a lot better or keep the infection so far under control that I can continue working.

But for me the most fundamental thing that has changed is I am now free to be who I have always been but until recently had to hide.

If that is not important for you, then my suggestion is don't transition.

[Rogina B]

Steph,
When you change the clothes the environment around you changes, different circle of friends, places you visit and really a whole lifestyle change.
You still enjoy what you had in the other gender but you do enjoy them less.
You get absorbed into the new moment and try to live it.
When you go back interest in the former becomes diminished, this is when you are changing, you may still be you but you have made a gender shift.
So working back and forth you will gain in one gender and lose in the other.
This is where those mind blowing hormones start to take effect.

Very well put! There is only so much of us to go around..Hence one person dies off for the other to live..And you already know the rest of my thoughts by PM..

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Those are interesting thoughts...its really hard for a gg to put in words what it means to be a woman...and as fun as nice clothes may be, the clothes don't make a person a woman...if its hard for a gg to describe, imagine how it is for a gm...
and you are correct, it has nothing to do with clothes or makeup or interests...

.. some of the things you are saying don't resonate because I know that it does matter..i live it everyday... the difference it makes is total and touches you inside a place that i can only describe as a soul or a core...what lallie calls indentity
I wish i could have known this feeling 10 or 20 or even 40 years ago...successful transitioners will all say they wish they did it sooner...

here is the sentence i read in your post that screamed out....
"i know social...blablabla but what the hell does that matter"........ OMG, it matters alot!!!!
if that's how you feel, you should run as fast as you can away from the idea of transition..you would either hate it, or you would spend your thoughts balancing the rewards what you give up for those rewards..

unless you are going through something like denial in your self dialog, your thoughts seem like somebody that discovered a wonderful expanding female side for themselves, but is also realizing their quality of life aint that bad and that you don't need to live as a female to feel authentic and alive...that's a pretty big deal...if you feel there are gives and takes, then definitely go down that route...you may find you can live very nicely with a male and female side to your life..

of course, the kind of thoughts you brought up can change over time and that's why so many of say in therapy to work very hard to be honest with yourself...

[Laurie Ann]

Stephan,

Exactly

[melissaK]

If it was all about clothes, or about getting "all dolled up" then we would have been able to cope with our Gender Dysphoria through cross-dressing.

Transition is all about dealing with the fundamental disconnect between our innate knowledge of who we are and what our bodies reflect out to other people.

If you look into the mirror and are content to see a man looking back at you, then perhaps transition isn't for you at this point in your life. On the other hand if you see a sham, something you know in your heart that has never been true, then perhaps you should give a little more consideration to who you are.

Steph, Rhianna, Kaitlyn, Inna's comments in another thread she just started, and others comments here, they all make sense to me.

If you are happy and are not making endless compromises all day long in what you say, how you act, what you wear, and what you do, then where would you transition too?? You would already be there.

But for me, the compromises began when I woke up and didn't end till I fell asleep. Beginning to live, and learning to live, without making an endless stream of compromises has made me happier in my soul, and it's priceless.

And Steph sweetie, some part of you isn't happy. Some part of you is making compromises from sun-up to sundown - or you wouldn't be here.

Big hugs Steph.

[danielleinbr]

As we all know each person is different in why they like to be "dolled up". I can tell you from my experience is that when I can be "the real me" lots of things change. When I have to appear as a man I can be moody, temperamental, and generally uncomfortable. Years ago when I first started realizing who I really am, dressing and going out as my female self it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. Colors became more vivid, the sky became more blue, candy tasted sweeter. Now does that mean that I am a different person? Of course not, but my perspective of myself and the things around me changed. Relationships with some people changed, some for the better, many for the worse. The feelings I had of being selfish, self hate, had to be dealt with. My therapist helped me through that and find a balance in my life. All this being said, I have to be a woman sometimes because it is who I am inside.

[melissakozak]

A lot changes. First, appearance. Second, when you go out, people perceive you very differently. Third, your inner sense of who you really are. The list goes and on and on. For me, being whatever you may call me, TG, not TS, I need to be both in order to feel whole. Yes, it is a pain in the ass mixing two worlds. Yes, it is a pain to keep two identities largely separate, but I have no choice. Before I fully embraced this, I was a mess. This whole thing is about finding out who you are, what you need and finding happiness and a fulfilling life. This is why TSs transition. Their lives as men are hell, period. Until the physical, social, emotional, and spiritual aspects of onesself are aligned, then life is not happening, period. When I dress, I completely dress and then go out into the world, bravely and fiercely because it is a hell of a lot different than when I do in drab.....

[Brooke Smith]

Those are interesting thoughts...your thoughts seem like somebody that discovered a wonderful expanding female side for themselves, but is also realizing their quality of life aint that bad and that you don't need to live as a female to feel authentic and alive...that's a pretty big deal...if you feel there are gives and takes, then definitely go down that route...you may find you can live very nicely with a male and female side to your life.....

God I truly hope that describes me because that is the path I have chosen. It may be the path of least resistance but also takes into consideration the people who have invested so much of their own lives in mine. While we are responsible for our own happiness ,we are also responsible for our actions and how they effect those around us. Life is tough enough for for everyone without unnecessarily adding to the stress of our families.

It would be great to be King,or in my case Queen,and if I lived in a vacuum and it really was all about me there would be no compromises to be made. But who lives in a vacuum? Life is full of compromises we must make every day. The trick is to find your center and learn to live your live as fully as possible from there.

I say this for the benefit of those who can still live their lives well without the absolute need to transition. There are many more of us in this position than we sometimes think there are.

And for my transsexual sisters who do what they must do to survive,I understand,and I love you and wish you the best.

[Aprilrain]

I have to admt, I can't relate. For me transition had nothing to do with clothes or interests. I wore jeans and T shirts before transition and I wear jeans and T shirts now, I like some of the same things I liked before transition and some things not so much other interest are completely new. For me it was about having the right body, if your body feels right the way it is don't change it! It was also about relating to the world as a female and having the world relate that back.

[MsRenee]

As stated by Danielle, As we all know each person is different in why they like to be "dolled up". I can tell you from my experience is that when I can be "the real me" lots of things change. When I have to appear as a man I can be moody, temperamental, and generally uncomfortable. Years ago when I first started realizing who I really am, dressing and going out as my female self it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. Colors became more vivid, the sky became more blue, candy tasted sweeter. Now does that mean that I am a different person? Of course not, but my perspective of myself and the things around me changed. Relationships with some people changed, some for the better, many for the worse. The feelings I had of being selfish, self hate, had to be dealt with

[Barbara Ella]

This is an interesting thought, and the responses are both heartening, and frightening. But after all, what about this whole life isn't both heartening and frightening as we make choices for our life. When this first started for me, I had no idea why I dressed. Over time I came to realize I needed to see a physical side of what I was inside. This need got very strong, and overwhelmed my daily routines. I definitely changed during this time, but not just with the clothes, but in my daily routine to adjust to and compensate for my inner feelings which I could not adequately interpret.

With the final acceptance and understanding of why I behaved like this, and the start of HRT, I can accept that there is really no duality in me. I do not need to dress now to see the real me, the woman I now know is there. And with this realization, things have changed again, and I find me doing things I used to do without even thinking about having done them as a male.

Now to work on the outer duality to match it to the inner oneness. As many have lived through, this is the most difficult to do.

Apologies if off topic.

Barbara

[Traci Elizabeth]

I can't relate to the OP as I have always known I was a female even as a young child. That was never a question in my mind. It was a absolute truth of my inner being.

Why did I wait so late to transition? First and foremost, I wanted children of my own. Second, my career was a mid-six figure profession that I was not willing to give up to secure my future and retirement and to provide for my family. So like many here, I put my needs and wants on the back burner despite all the anguish, depression, and disconnect I had to endure over the years.

When the time was RIGHT for me, and me alone, I carried through with what I denied myself all those years.

Clothing, make-up, pretty jewelry, high heels, and trying to prove to others that I was in fact, a woman, meant NOTHING to me whatsoever. The only thing that mattered to me was aligning my body with the woman I have always been on the inside. I never had male friends or did stereo-typed "male" things, and I still don't. Being male had never been something that I was attracted to or had interest in PERIOD.

So as it relates to the OP, if your core being is not female, then get off the train at the nest stop and head back home as quick as you can.

[arbon]

So what really changes if you choose to transition?

Well I got my own bedroom! :)

The big changes though - I don't feel like I am living a lie anymore, I don't hate myself anymore. I was very unhappy that I was a guy and now I feel better about me. and I liked what April said to "It was also about relating to the world as a female and having the world relate that back."

I think to it has made me a lot stronger person then I knew I could be.

[GabbiSophia]

Lots of interesting views and comments.

Melissa you are correct something is wrong and its the fact that I can't seem to shake this. That's what makes me unhappy the thought of doing something so radical that I lose what does make me happy. That's what would change in my world

[kimdl93]

.... Years ago when I first started realizing who I really am, dressing and going out as my female self it was like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. Colors became more vivid, the sky became more blue, candy tasted sweeter. Now does that mean that I am a different person? Of course not, but my perspective of myself and the things around me changed. ...

I have exactly the same feeling as Renee. I have changed by embracing the gender that I feel is at least a very large part of me. I'm certainly happier and I feel more honest and real when I'm en femme. Certainly, when I present as female I am viewed differently by others. And I am a different person in the eyes of the people I've come out to. But I have to say, most of them have been very welcoming and accepting of the change.

Yes, I have a social context that expects me to be male. I make the transition back, play that role and meet those expectations, but its tolerable because I know I'll be shifting back to female mode in a matter of hours. But I'm not a transexual. I may lean that way, but although I prefer living as a woman, I don't have that overwhelming need to make a permanent change.

Steph, you've been on a roller coaster. A few weeks ago it seemed you were hell-bent for transition. And now it seems you've stepped back and are questioning those earlier feelings. That's ok. Just remember, whether you come out as a CDr or eventually decide you are TS, that isn't going to make the world better or different. It may, if you feel as Renee and I do, change or make a difference in you.

[Rianna Humble]

Melissa you are correct something is wrong and its the fact that I can't seem to shake this. That's what makes me unhappy the thought of doing something so radical that I lose what does make me happy.

These words suggest strongly to me that you should consider stepping back from transition. In my not so humble opinion, if there is anything or any one in your life that is more important to you than bringing your body into congruity with your inner gender identity then you do not need to transition at this stage in your life.

There has been much discussion on other parts of this site about two-spirit or dual-gender people, have you considered whether that may be where you fit at the moment?

[kellycan27]

What changed? The way I view and live my life........ Priceless!

[GabbiSophia]

These words suggest strongly to me that you should consider stepping back from transition. In my not so humble opinion, if there is anything or any one in your life that is more important to you than bringing your body into congruity with your inner gender identity then you do not need to transition at this stage in your life.

There has been much discussion on other parts of this site about two-spirit or dual-gender people, have you considered whether that may be where you fit at the moment?

I agree with this and sometimes I hate to admit it but I agree with alot of the other things people say. The rather ugly truth of it is I feel like I need to transition to a some part but I know what that brings and I am making a choice not to. Some days are harder than others because I see a women wanting to come out in the mirror .. she is a cd because she is wearing mens clothes (no offense to anyone). I wish I could take all the reflections away sometimes. So far though I have something else in my life that keeps that at bay. I don't like to admit it because it causes more anxiety but I have started to realize how far back I have been trying to express myself.

Kim I have been on a huge roller coaster and I don't know that it will end per say and that is my choice. I am trying out how to live a gender free life because the only thing I can see changing by transitioning is my appearence. That as of the moment is not enough for me.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Thats really good self assessment...thats so important...

so your challenge will be to cope day to day... over time..things will definitely change...the roller coaster goes up and down, but it has an overall direction too...and it will find its own place with no regard to daily and weekly swings...

don't make any promises...consider small ways to feminize like hair removal (which will help you regardless of your path)..and see what happens..the moment of truth rianna talks about will either come for you or not...

[GabbiSophia]

I read an article http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/magazine/should-i-become-a-woman-and-risk-causing-pain-to-my-wife-and-children.html?src=dayp&_r=1& and to be honest I am sure that the hate mail for this article is deep. You could pick it all apart.

But one thing sticks with me when it comes to children and loved ones... I ask this of myself .. Would you lay your life down for your children? for your wife? would you stop the bullet that would kill them.. your answer to this question will tell you a lot about yourself and where you are .. for me I would in a heart beat and so to protect them I also am laying down my female transition for them too ..

Actually this says a lot to me .. I believe I am done here .. I have gained so much from the peoples exp here and thank them but I am going to grab my own exp .. good to luck to all ..

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i would do all the above...and i transitioned too...
and my kids are great...

the article is very reasoned, it leaves out one thing...and thats the expereince of people that don't transition, and suffer extended periods of gender dysphoria...which leads to things like suicide...how is that "good for the kids"...
more simply stated, it ASSUMES that the kids will be fine if dad or mom doesn't transition...this is totally false...

in either transition or not, the parent must never forget to stop the bullet...

good luck to you to...

[LeaP]

But one thing sticks with me when it comes to children and loved ones... I ask this of myself .. Would you lay your life down for your children? for your wife? would you stop the bullet that would kill them.. your answer to this question will tell you a lot about yourself and where you are ..

I see a lot of problems with this statement. For one thing, it ignores the other side of the equation. Would your wife sacrifice for you? And if not, what does that tell you about the worth of your sacrifice? And if she would, what is the point of your sacrifice?

That's the problem with the whole sacrifice meme. It tries to recast questions of living into heroic stories about dying. Your choices are fine. They sound appropriate to your self-assessment of identity. But they are just that – appropriate choices - and therefore the right thing, in and of themselves. Twisting that into a noble act of sacrifice doesn't do justice to the work you put into getting to this point.

[melissaK]

Ugh. Steph.

You aren't me. But I did that "be there for my wife and family" thing. It was a mixed result - and the burden got worse every year until I felt like I was taking bullets. My goal was to make it to 60 with all kids out of college, and retirement ahead for me. I put my head down and pressed on.

Then it got bad enough for me that taking a real bullet began to sound like a good idea. That was pushing it too far and at age 57 1/2 I pulled up and took on transition. Promise yourself and your family that if you get to that point you'll pull up too.

And Steph, know this, starting to transition has been hard on my relationships, my marriage is still in the ICU, but it has been good for my soul. I mean really good. Pricelessly good.

As you press on, keep Kaitlyn's words in mind. You can do some electrolysis, and start Rogain to keep hair on your head. Think of it as insurance.

And trust me on this, see your counselor quarterly. The person who wrote that article was not TS and has no F'in business writing about things they don't know about. Stay with your own counselor, and because there will be really bad days ahead stay in touch quarterly.

Hugs sweetie.

[arbon]

Actually this says a lot to me .. I believe I am done here .. I have gained so much from the peoples exp here and thank them but I am going to grab my own exp .. good to luck to all ..

And good luck to you to Steph :)

[elizabethamy]

Here's the core sentence of the NYT article: "So the question you really need to ask yourself is this: Is your psychological damage from gender dysphoria greater than the psychological damage that its restoration will inflict upon the lives of any (or all) of your children? If the answer is yes, proceed. If the answer is no, don’t do it."

It's hard to argue with from where I sit (on the gender fence, as someone said elsewhere, or perhaps in the gender battle arena, as it really seems day to day in my head) that there's anything wrong with that thought. What is the ultimate gain and what is the ultimate cost?

Often I think everyone over-assumes that disaster will rain down on children if a parent transitions. Humans are several things: messed up, difficult, selfish, giving, and ultimately very very hard to stop. My take on parenting, after 20+ years of it, is that my influence only goes so far. I'm a custodian and confidant and role model and authority figure for my children, sure, but they are completely independent beings with their own thoughts, wills and destinies. The children will be okay. They really will. I'm trying to decide what will work for me, and if I find what will work, my wife and children will appreciate that I have done that, whether they like it or not.

Decision-making of any kind is a lonely business, made even lonelier by the gravity of transition, but in the end, it's just you and the mirror, no matter what anyone (advice columnist, friend, child, parent or lover) says.

elizabethamy

[stefan37]

To answer your question would I lay my life down to save my wife and kids. I would not hesitate if they were in direct danger of having physical injury inflicted upon them and I would do so in a heartbeat. But psychologically things are not so simple. It appears to me you would like to go one way, but the losses of that decision would harm others close to you, so you are looking for ways to justify your decision to not seek transition in some capacity, Be that hair removal, hrt, etc. Whatever decision you make for whatever reasons are your own and no one has need to question your motives except you and maybe your loved ones. You need not make any justifications for the path you choose, you are responsible for your own peace and happiness. Good luck with your future and may you lead a happy successful life. Come back and say hello every now and then.

[LeaP]

Here's the core sentence of the NYT article: "So the question you really need to ask yourself is this: Is your psychological damage from gender dysphoria greater than the psychological damage that its restoration will inflict upon the lives of any (or all) of your children? If the answer is yes, proceed. If the answer is no, don’t do it."

It's hard to argue with ...


Since we're talking about sacrifice, and in the spirit of the NYT article, then how do you like this formulation?


If the psychological damage from your suicide would be less than from your living (transition or not) because you are a transsexual, then proceed.

The basic problem, of course, is that one cannot predict outcomes. Often, when people do, they use them as excuses. Theoretical formulations and arguments of the extremes lend themselves to this, and the kind of sacrifice we are talking about has elements of both.

Sometimes, when self-sacrifice is brought up, I want to suggest that if one wants to go that route they should simply give up the power involved ... give the full decision to your spouse - as long as he/she fully understands what's involved. Now that's a sacrifice.

[Starling]

Good luck, Steph. And don't beat yourself up if you change your mind.

:) Lallie

[kellycan27]

I have always thought of transitioning as a huge leap of faith... There are no guarantees that one will be successful or happy. There will be little or no change when one has done little or nothing to change. Maybe i am confused but it seems to me that the OP is saying that nothing will change between living as a man or a woman so why transition? If the OP hasn't lived as a woman... How can she say... Nothing will change? Does wearing female clothing and running around town constitute "living as a woman"? Does a few months or a surgical procedure or two constitute living a s a woman? A few months of HRT?

[Starling]

That makes sense, Kelly. It's also a good reason to think long and hard before you jump out of the airplane, especially if someone else really depends on you.

:) Lallie

[Badtranny]

I wore jeans and T shirts before transition and I wear jeans and T shirts now, I like some of the same things I liked before transition and some things not so much other interest are completely new. For me it was about having the right body, if your body feels right the way it is don't change it! It was also about relating to the world as a female and having the world relate that back.

I don't get to hear from my old friend April very often but when I do, it just reminds me why I dig her so.

What changes? Well, I'm not sure how to answer that. I was just talking to a co-worker today about my transition and she said verbatim; "You're still the same person". This particular woman is a devout Mormon and was mentioned to me in the beginning as someone who may have a problem with it. She didn't and she stood in my office today before my unquestionably fem presentation and told me I was still the same person as far as she was concerned. What the hell does that mean? How can I be the same person after a bunch of surgical procedures and 2.5 years of HRT? What changed?

The short answer is; nothing. I really am the same exact person I was minus the pretense of being manly. People here talk constantly about the duality or the two spirits, but I have not experienced that. I felt one way, I just refused to acknowledge it. I admit that I did not understand it, (thought I was just gay) but I ever once felt like I was a masculine AND a feminine spirit. I honestly felt like I was a sad excuse for a man, I felt like a failure and a fraud. I couldn't seem to measure up as a 'real man' no matter how hard I tried. This was how I felt every single day, so what changed?

I don't feel like that anymore. I despise the idea of rationalizing the 'decision' to transition but if you make a list of the reasons why you should do it, and dressing like a woman is anywhere on that list I think you have a problem. I'm 100% honest when I say that my transition has nothing to do with wearing panties everyday, in fact the average CD would be horrified to know what I wear as underpants most of the time. I wear black slacks and a black blazer almost every single day to work. I accessorize with a cute blouse and jewelery but my work clothes don't exactly scream femininity. Of course I do my hair and wear makeup, but if you think for one minute that I transitioned so I can have the privilege of spending a half hour every morning putting on makeup than you have a screw loose. I dress like a woman and wear makeup because that's what women do and I'm trying to quietly live my life as one of them. There is only ONE reason to transition and that is because you want people to see you as who you are. All I want from life is for people to look at me and relate to me as a woman. I want every thing crappy and everything great, I don't even care if it's all bad. I just want them to see me for who I am. I want the girls to know I'm one of them and I want the boys to know I'm NOT one of them. If they passed a law that all women had to wear MC Hammer pants and boxer shorts than I would be right there with my sisters. This is who I am and somehow, nature F'd it up.

What changes with transition? Nothing and everything.

[Beverley Sims]

I love Melissa bashing,
It is my humble opinion only... I do have to put the rider in these days after havin stepped on toes recently.
Personality wise I would say you have the same views, your stress level is starting to even out and you have become more tolerant of criticism.
Appearance wise, you have smoother features and it is a woman I see in the avatar these days.
Your posts are still outgoing and understanding of others point of view, that goes with personality.

What changes with transition?
I hope for you a greater peace of mind.

For you Steph,
My post # 4 still stands.

[Kathryn Martin]

What changed?

The short answer is; nothing. I really am the same exact person I was minus the pretense of being manly.


What changes with transition? Nothing and everything.

No truer words have been spoken, but Misty, it's like preaching to the deaf.

[kellycan27]

There's no way that I am same person post transition. I was a loner, shy , introverted and perfectly content to stay in the background. Now nothing makes me happier than being the center of attention. My self confidence is through the roof. I am a wife and a mother, and I get involved in school and community issues. Quiet and reserved pre- transition, strong and in your face post.

[Kathryn Martin]

Kelly, I was talking about something quite different. Your fundamental humanity does not chnage and the problems you have had before will not go way simply because you transition. For most of us becoming post-op finally has laid the foundation to evolve as the human being we were but occluded by our condition. That seems what you spoke to. And it is true, just as much as what Misty said.

[kellycan27]

Sorry but I beg to differ. Although transition may not be a cure all it certainly cured a couple of major issues ( problems) dysphoria for,one and living an authentic life. I also believe that transition did change my fundamental humanity. Being more at ease with myself allowed me to be more at ease with other people. I became more tolerant and sympathetic towards others and their situations. I became more open and more trusting. I became less cynical of people in general.
I am not saying that my good friend misty is wrong but suggesting that at this stage of the game Misty is addressing a point from what she has experienced so far in her transition. Change takes time...

[Jorja]

Which brings us to the core of the question, what has changed? The sun still rises in the east and sets in the west. You still have to carry out the trash and pay your bills. Life is just as crappy all around you as it always was.You have changed. You have gained knowledge about yourself and your situation and have been able to take actions to remedy the situation. The difference is now you are complete or headed in that direction with purpose.

[kellycan27]

if you read Misty's post it appears as though she's talking about changes in herself. Her co-worker states " you're still the same person". Naturally the sun is still going to rise and set... Is this really what were talking about as far as change. Is this what the OP is alluding to when she says.... Nothing changes? Really?

[Badtranny]

I don't know that mine and Kelly's experiences are at all similar. She was a 20 something transitioner who was just starting out her life. I was a 40 something transitioner who had come to grips with my fate after living with weirdness for the entirety of my life.

If I had indeed had the guts that Kelly did at 20, then I can say with certainty that things would have changed. I was a mess, with mood swings, confusion, and rage, and arrogance. I was a ship without a port and I was sure of so many things that I was absolutely wrong about. Transitioning then would have required something I did not have.

My post was a response to the "female side" that Steph mentioned. When I say nothing changed it was because I'd already begun to live my life authentically. I had dropped the macho act long ago. There was no duality or acting girly. Obviously from a distance, my whole life changed, but the core of who I am did not change at all.

I didn't 'become' a woman, I just finally stripped away everything that didn't look like a woman so that people knew who they were dealing with.

[Contessa]

Mellissa

I just wanted to know if I could use your post as mine without just saying "ditto."

Tess

[Kaitlyn Michele]

its interesting that we are chatting about this and the OP left the forum... kind of tells you something..

anyway...i read kelly and melissa's posts and i just see crosstalk...not a bad thing, just to me you are talking about different aspects of this but in the end there is no contradiction in what you are saying..

whatever you've achieved in transition Kelly was always there... you were always "you"...nothing has changed....
except as you point out, everything has changed...gender informs every aspect of day to day life...and you've had much more experience, and drop by drop the things that you felt when living as male seem to disappear...all the physical changes are part of it too...everything changed...

the OP struggled with and posts contradicted themself which seems par for the course when faced with this stuff... then finally decided to try to stop messing with it because of children.. a very wise choice because they were not anywhere near a point where it made sense to consider transition anyway...

[Sandra]

its interesting that we are chatting about this and the OP left the forum... kind of tells you something..



Really her profile says different :)

[Pink Person]

Everyone is right and everyone is wrong. I'm sorry, but I just had to give myself a chuckle by agreeing and disagreeing with everyone.

I don't care if the OP has left the thread. Many of my favorite posters joined it, so I'm enjoying it.

I'm not a fan of casting transition as a life or death decision, for any reason. I'm strongly opposed to people killing themselves if they can't transition. I'm also strongly opposed to people killing themselves or getting killed because someone else transitioned.

I hope that people who transition feel glorious about it. I think some do. I also want people who don't transition to feel glorious too. I think people should aim to feel good about themselves and do things that will make them content and happy. Leave killing yourself or other people out of the equation when solving your problems. Transition shouldn't be a life saver or a smoking gun. It's a golden key to one door to a better life. There are other keys and other doors that lead to the same place. Don't lock yourself out from all of them because one key doesn't fit or one door is closed to you.

[LeaP]

We are all opposed to people killing themselves for any reason, Pink. Many of those who do kill themselves do so because they feel trapped, not because they can't transition per se. The sensation of being trapped is incredibly pervasive. Combine it with the depression many of us suffer and you can see why suicide is always nagging at the edge of our consciousness. I am not immune to this. If you mean people should not metaphorically cast transition in terms of life and death, I agree. Unfortunately, the non-metaphorical usage is often completely appropriate.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i totally agree with you pink....which of course means i also disagree with you!!! and what's more i disagree with you too...ummmmmm, you figure it out!!! LOL

i don't beleive anyone takes suicide metaphors lightly..but for the statistics are grim and the experience is real..this fricking problem causes people to want to kill themselves...thats a pretty darn terrible problem...

we can hope that we can all step up and be ourselves, and try to stop being so ashamed or guilty or afraid (pick one or all), but the words dont do justice to the feeling.. you hear the admonishments to suck it up or the encouragement that it will be ok, but you can't feel it because you feel like you don't exist...whether this is similar to cisgender people that feel suicidal i cannot say...maybe as a group there is a self fulfilling self pitying mantra...transition or die!!! its life or death!!! maybe this is not constructive to better quality for each life...maybe we should sugar coat at least a little bit...

the problem is that i can tell you first hand..

..i am highly educated, i have a great attitude on life, I"m happy go lucky to the point of laziness, i have been successful at everything i've done, i always got along with most people and have many close friends and wonderful family support..I am thankful for my blessings...

...but my blessings were nothing against the juggernaut... i felt that trapped feeling..it was like nothing i ever felt..it was inescapable
...and then it was literally life or death, it was literally transition or die... thats not a metaphor..thats what happened to me...

once i transitioned, boom...no more juggernaut..and altho it aint perfect, i can say that at times it really is glorious...sometimes i sit back in wonder at what happened to me over the last 5 years.. it was so crazy i wonder if i would have gone through with it if it was not life or death...so strangely i am thankful that i felt that way...it got me here and its ok...

[Shameonu]

Transitioning is likely the bravest thing a person can do up to that point in their life, in that there are fears of the unknown that weigh heavily on our minds. Will my loved ones abandon me? Will I be able to earn a living? Will I be able to afford the hormone regimen and surgery? And, of course, there is the big fear itself -- am I actually transsexual and could I be (possibly) screwing up my future by pursuing a mistake?

Transitioning was the best and, ultimately, the only decision I could have ever made and I have never regretted it even for one moment -- I made the leap about seven years ago, give or take. But, writing that, it is no panacea -- you will still be you and any personality and emotional traits you now have will remain without purposeful or therapeutic effort. You WILL, hopefully, be happier and there should be no underestimating of that statement. And I would be lying if I tried to claim that there haven't been difficulties because of my transitioning. I am only now reestablishing my career (primarily because of procrastination to be honest) and my income has been greatly affected. I have been fortunate in that those people who loved me prior to seven years ago still love me today, but, truth be told, I'm a heck of a lovable person. (I will resist the use of a happy-face smilie here to leave the reader wondering.)

Finally, there are no rules here. The whole deal with transitioning is to become the real you, whether you fit into some perceived box or not. You do not need to become some stereotype of femininity and you do not necessarily change your sexual preferences. BE YOU even if you dress in the same clothing you did when attempting to live the male life. This is about inner honesty, not the expectations of others.

[Pink Person]

Suicide bad. Like fire. Very bad. Run from fire. Especially don't set self on fire.

I don't mind being a cheerleader for life. It's better than death. Rah! Rah!

I understand the emotional stakes of being trans, as well as the next person. That is precisely why I find it so critical to rule out the suicide option and the hyperbolic chatter about death when discussing trans issues. It's a very dangerous game we play with ourselves and with other people who are like us when we indulge our emotional weaknesses.

I for one don't want to be a fire starter on this subject.

[kellycan27]

How did we get on the subject of death and suicide?

[Pink Person]

I think some new topics were inroduced at post 27 and afterward. The direction of the
thread is consequently weaving.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

so for a person who is hearing the cheerleader and it doesn't make them feel better...what then?? what if it makes them feel worse??
is it better to read that others have shared your depth of feeling and survived(And here's how they did it??).. to hear that others have shared your feeling, didn't deal with it and they did not make it...?

or to hear that it'll be ok because life is good and death is bad?

I don't think sharing how this feels is indulging an emotional weakness either...

[Pink Person]

In my opinion, death drama queens do not properly understand the meaning of death. If they did then they would never discuss it as or imply it is a valid choice or a good alternative to life in the context of addressing gender issues. Our gender conditions shouldn't kill us or anybody else. It's anathema to me to think or suggest otherwise. If my point of view is harming anyone then I sincerely apologize for not being guilty of the charge.

[LeaP]

This is an INCREDIBLY destructive point of view. Pink, much as I appreciate your oft-different arguments, I sincerely hope you never try to assist anyone suicidal. Suicide stats are horrendous, and being dismissive shuts down communication instantly.

"Should not" is irrelevant. Gender issues do kill people.

[Pink Person]

False beliefs about gender issues certainly do kill people. I am deeply and profoundly saddened by this unfortunate fact. However, false beliefs kill lots of people for lots of absurd reasons.

Thinking that death is a bargain for transgender people is a false belief. It's a lie that begs to be dismissed with extreme prejudice. I wish I could destroy it.

[Rianna Humble]

Trying to make light of what people have survived in order to get where they are now does not help anybody. You have stated your low opinion about those of us who faced suicide and overcame it several times now in this thread. Once might have been considered an attempt to help.

If you had any understanding of what a suicidal person actually goes through you would temper the trite phrases.

All discussion of people's personal opinion about suicide stops here and any further post on that subject in this thread will be deleted.

Rianna Humble
Moderator, Transsexual Forum

[Starling]

Thanks, Rianna.

:) Lallie