Did I do something wrong?

[Cam]

Let me start by stating what I have in previous posts and then tell you about my outing last night:

I am a 6'2" 225lb man with a lithe yet muscular build having spent 20 years as a pro ballet dancer. I am bald with a beard that is rapidly turning white. I love wearing skirts, especially mini skirts since I have the legs for them, and panties. Up top I stick to men's shirts, t-shirts and accessories. I am straight, married for 25 years with 4 kids and out as a cross dresser to my family and community. I could not pass for female even if I wanted to. I just like to wear pretty things and to feel "pretty".

Last night, a gay friend of mine asked me to go to a gay bar with him instead of the bar we normally go to. I had no problem with this as we had been there many times together when we were roommates. Let me say that even though straight, I love to dance and don't care if it is a man or woman who I am dancing with. Anyway, I was dancing with my friend an was verbally accosted by an absolutely beautiful TG lady who was apparently offended that I was obviously a man and felt that it was wrong for me to come to "their" bar in a skirt when it "obvious" to everyone there that I am a man and not a "true" cross dresser. I was in a black leather mini with male loafers, a white turtleneck, black sports coat and pantyhose. Am I doing something wrong or am I wrong to expect to be accepted in this type of establishment? I am confused. The insinuation was that I was either in a skirt as a joke or something. I had never met her before so she did not know that this is just how I dress about town and in my business. She was not calmed down one bit when my friend tried to explain me to her.

I must say that rather than ruin everyone's night, I left and took a cab home (my friend drove last night). I don't feel I was or am in the wrong here. I must say that as I left the look on her face was priceless when I looked into her eyes and told her that it was a shame that such a beautiful lady was such an ugly person.

[AllieSF]

You were not doing anything wrong. The TG lady was in the wrong. It is rare to see or encounter a fully dressed with wig CD out there in the real world. It is even rarer to encounter one who mixes male with female and basically presents as a man in some women's clothes. I say ignore her and let her deal with her own problem and you go on with your friend(s) and have the good time you want to have. She will have to learn to live with it just like the other bar patrons have learned to live with her.

She is just trying to get you to dress like she thinks is OK, which is no different than when a non-CD/TG thinks and says that we should dress and present ourselves as the gender that we are.

PS: This is my 6,500th post. I have been here way too much!

[NV Susan]

Hi Cam, I don't think you did anything wrong at all {I loved your ugly person comeback}:heehee:. I've gone out many times dressed en femme, without a wig or makeup and had not nice things said to me. I figure it's what I leave myself open too. Shame it happened at a gay bar, you would think you would be accepted there.

:eek:

[Annaliese]

No not at all Cam, she was in the wrong, please don't let this stop you from going with your friend and having fun.

[Veronnie2]

Cam, Hon, i concur with the others on here. You did nothing wrong, or nothing to be ashamed of. It is just a shame that some special people feel they have to be so rude in their behaviors. Shrug it off, and rock on hon. Veronnie2

[Foxglove]

Cam, my sympathies. You can't win.

Cisperson: Hey, you're a man! You can't wear a skirt!
Transperson: Oh, yes, he can! Just not like that!

Do your own thing, Cam. It's what everybody else in the world is doing.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[sandra-leigh]

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with wearing what you like, provided it be decent (and not in itself hate speech).

I have seen some transsexuals be quite opposed to non-transsexuals wearing clothes of the "other sex", as some transsexuals believe that non-TS wearing such clothes makes it much harder for transsexuals to be accepted and given proper rights and consideration. Which is sort of like if on St. Patrick's Day, I wore green and wore buckle shoes, and someone criticized me for it, saying that my doing so made it harder for the paramilitary actions in Ireland to be settled.

[Tammy Nowakowski]

Cam i agree with every one here

[Theonethatleads]

She lacked class. You were just fine. Some ladies just lack any class...and are ugly people inside.

[avant1465]

I think you handled the situation beautifully.

[KellyJameson]

I bet you have great looking legs. You triggered a deep subconscious fear in her that she projected out onto you like vomit so you were a victim of "projection as hate"

Your presentation threatened her deeply.

She is trying to hide the ugliness she feels inside by the beauty she creates outside

Woman who see themselves as ugly hate beautiful woman all the time or the addict that hates their addiction hates the person who is not an addict.

You clearly have an amazing relationship with yourself which means you are extremely comfortable being you and in your own skin so you are living "unselfconsciously"

She saw your joy in life and the joy you have in being you and it was this that she hated because she does not have it.

This is the danger of being TG/TS from self hate where you hate the "man" but it is not the man on the outside that is hated but the man on the inside so the person changes the outside thinking it will fix the inside but the hate remains.

You saw her exactly right, beautiful on the outside and ugly on the inside. This is very very common in the TG world and one reason I'm careful about who I associate with when they identify as TG

You were hated for your acceptance of self because she is living the nightmare of self rejection.

Sorry that you were exposed to such ugliness but there is a lot of it out there in the world.

[tiffanyjo89]

Sometimes discrimination in a community can be ten times worse than outside.

Casual fan of a show gets criticized for "not being a big enough fan" to be registered on a fan forum.
Casual singer gets criticized by the classically trained singers for not being dedicated or trained enough.
Casual musician posts a video on YouTube and gets crap for a few missed notes by a professional.
Casual crossdresser who likes to wear skirts or ladies tops and doesn't bother with makeup gets crap from not "presenting properly" by a trans individual.

Most people at the bar probably didn't give a flying crap about how you were dressed, as long as you were dressed.

[Julogden]

That's a shame, but it happens. She was as wrong for condemning you as the haters are who condemn her for being TG, but she was apparently blind to that.

Carol

[Sandra1746]

I agree with the others here, you did NOT do anything wrong or even slightly "improper". The other "lady" (and the term is VERY loosely used here) was clearly in the wrong. You were in a public place and as you were behaving in a civil and polite manner you clearly had every right to be there and enjoying the venue.

Some "other people" simply can't seem to accept that others act or believe differently than they do. They then have to get beligerent about the situation. It is a regrettable fact of humanity and you just happened to be the target of "her" ire.

Don't let a bad apple spoil outings for you. Wear what you like and enjoy what you wear.

Best wishes and good luck,
Sandra1746

[Cheryl T]

You are certainly not wrong.
That kind of prejudice is all too common in our world. I know of open support groups where the first question asked of a newcomer is not "What's your name?", but "What are you?" Based on your response you are then segregated to an area with others "of your kind". It's so unfortunate that we cannot put aside all the labels and categorizing even amongst ourselves, when we face so much of that from society in general.
You just happened to encounter one of those who falls into that category and for myself and others like me I sincerely apologize for that girl's attitude and remarks.

[mikiSJ]

Gender politics running amuck!

The CDer is annoyed with his male friends for not accepting CDing
The TG is annoyed with the CDer because she decided to go full-time
The TS is annoyed with the TG because she decided to change physically to be her gender
The GG is annoyed with the TS/TG/CD/GM because she is a woman and don't step into my safe place

It is not going to change in our lifetimes. All we can do it keep pushing in the best direction.

[savvy_fudge]

Hi Cam, I agree with everyone here. You did nothing wrong and it's a shame that you felt you had to leave a new bar to avoid any further issues. Some people don't like the idea of gender****ing which while a crude term is the accepted term that I know this as. Having only part of your outfit from the other gender, or not doing things like presenting mostly as female but not shaving, or a FtM wearing male clothes, and adding a shadow but not binding. Like CDing or androgyny or genderfluidity it's just another form a presentation which is nothing to feel ashamed about. There's a person where I live who wears nothing but female clothes, but doesn't shave his beard, he's comfortable presenting that way, and anyone who disagrees, has the problem not him.

Savannah

[Melissa Rose]

You did nothing wrong and she was out of line for pitching a fit and getting in your face about it. It sucks you had to experience such a negative reaction and it ruined your evening. Do not let this one ignorant person keep you from going back out. Be proud of who you are and own it. No one else owns it. Their beliefs and opinions are theirs and they are entitled to them, but here is to hoping they keep those negative beliefs and opinions to themselves and to let everyone live their own lives.

Do step back a little and try to see it through her eyes. While it does not excuse her behavior and make you any less right, it helps to temper emotions and understand the possible source of her reaction. If she has been trying and fightlng for acceptance as a woman and not to be viewed as a "Jerry Springer Show Freak" (sorry, not my words or belief but some feel that way), anything contrary to it can be upsetting. She may feel gender fluidity sets back some of the social advances transsexuals have recently gained and only serves to re-enforce the negative images and stereotypes of transgender individuals. Right or wrong, her feelings are valid, but her actions were definitely wrong. Other groups experience similar thought processes. I think most of us have heard of instances where someone in a group was told they are a sell out, letting others down, or making others look bad because they are not _____ enough (e.g., gay, butch, black, asian, republican, etc.).

[CassandraSmith]

Did I do something wrong?

Do you suppose it was your choice of colors? Some people just can't handle black-and-white thinking ;-)

[Beverley Sims]

It looks like intolerance bashing time at the moment.
No! I mean no disrespect.
There have been a few posts about the differing views here lately.
The trend does sadden me although I have posted a reply about the same subject elsewhere.
I think what you told her was correct and I applaud you for what you did.

[Lady Catherine]

My 2 cents? You did nothing wrong and your response to her was priceless. I would have stayed, though. Damned if I let ANYONE ruin my night.

[Ceri Anne]

Just be yourself and don't worry about others. Anyone who has a problem with that needs to concentrait on their own life. What you wear or do has no bearing on them and is not theier business

[Rogina B]

Maybe the TG was so lonely that she got angry that the only POSSIBLE dresser wasn't doing it "right"! lol How many TG s can there be in Nebraska?,,She's lonely alright!

[Rhonda Darling]

Cam:
Just keep dressing and keep on dancing. As someone said earlier, she probably envied your legs, your dancing, and most of all your comfort with who you are. She made herself small to the world by confronting you. I hope that she has reflected on this and sees the error of her ways. As my grandmother once said to my dad, "no one died and left you in charge." Those words apply to the worman (I chose that spelling) who confronted you. In this community, "live and let live" is a major mantra. She'll learn that some day.

Best regards, and keep on being you.

Rhonda

[kimdl93]

You did nothing wrong. Maybe she had a bad day...maybe she was just a judgmental you know what. There was no reason for her to intrude on your enjoyment.

[Tracii G]

I agree with the consensus here she was in the wrong not you.

[noeleena]

Hi,

This does not surprise me in the least , why,some of the trans people i know yes over here in N Z are to say they are nice would be a lie, I'v meet quite a few & i can not be bothered with them any more , the sad part is they think they are better than others & they have a chip on thier shoulder, & iv been at the brunt of thier scorne put down & humiliated in front of others,

Its not the clothes, or how one looks i have friends who dress very different , so, does that make the person. of cause not so whats the issue, the mere fact you were there, the problem is that other person, & will make issues where ever..

My self id expect something to be said about myself because i dont measure up to thier idear of how i should look, & im a woman not trans a bit different yet im accepted & well known with in our socity, & by friends. so dont be bothered by the comments id say the person concerned has a few lack esteem issues . because those that put others down have thier own issues that are not dealt with, & you or i take the brunt of thier scorne,

...noeleena...

[CassandraSmith]

Back to your question, "Did I do something wrong?"

I don't think so. However, you sound completely at ease within your own skin and that could really frighten someone who isn't and make them ask all sorts of inner questions.


Cassy

[monalisa]

You should have showed her one of your ballet moves and Swan Laked her out the door. Can't believe someone could be that rude. They should have their blouse buttons removed and be banned from the bar. Obviously she wasn't a member here.

[EllieOPKS]

I think you were wrong. Instead of leaving you should have got a bouncer to toss the trouble maker and enjoyed the rest of the evening. I have a low tolerance for bullies.

[Chickhe]

Only thing you did wrong is being concerned about it... should have asked her if she is the bar owner...and if not, bring her to the manager or do an informal survey of other customers and ask if they have a problem with your appearance... I'm sure most people would put her in her place.