So when is a good time to tell your date?

[abigailf]

Seriously. I started dating and I am meeting some really great guys. But part of me can't help but feel guilty because at some point they will need to know I am a trans-woman and sooner than later.

[ArleneRaquel]

Darlin,
My advice is tell ASAP. Some men may feel that " their manliness" is under attack if you don't tell. Some men may react in a violent manner.

[AllieSF]

Probably yesterday. No, seriously, I wouldn't tell someone special until I either felt that it was getting serious and could get much more serious, or maybe, just maybe, if I thought that she would be extremely accepting, not just tolerating, and would like to go out with me when I am dressed up.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

this is tough...

it is totally up to you and your intuition...stay safe and be prepared for rejection..
there is no perfect time to tell...i would think that anything more than a couple dates you have to tell...

sometimes i think that i tend to shy away from 2nd and 3rd dates because i am avoiding this issue...

if you have not had srs, then this is a much much more dangerous thing to be messing with...

[kellycan27]

Some great advice so far. I never disclosed unless I felt it might go somewhere. Once i disclosed.... I got dumped so many times that they named a landfill after me. Geez I hated those days LOL

[Jorja]

There is no reason to rush into things. However, if you feel that this is a relationship you are ready to take to the next level, you will need to spill the beans. Yes, you are probably going to get dumped but you just never know.

[abigailf]

So the consensus thus far is to inform as soon as possible but only if it is a relation worth pursuing. I tend to agree with that and so far that is the approach I am taking. I don't feel all that good about it, but I feel better about it than the other options.

I would feel most comfortable being up front about it as soon as possible. However, I have found that some people after finding out I am transgender suddenly find me interesting and want to be with me, woman and men alike. It bothers me because why did I have to be trans to make me interesting. I am pretty sure I do not want to be with someone like that.

When I compare being trans to other medical conditions, let's use something simple like a hysterectomy for example. Would a woman mention that on a first date or put it in her online profile? A condition very personal is not something one should be opening with, but it is something that needs to be disclosed before anything serious can occur.

Damn! Does it ever get better? I swear, though at least now I have the tools to help me deal with this junk.

My next question to those who have experience: What did you say and what was the result?

[Nicole Erin]

Just don't "disclose" while parked in some alley or some place where things could get stupid. Dn't wait until right before a moment of intimacy.
Just when telling (if you do) maybe something like "I wasn't always female". If that goes OK, of course he will want to know your "status" (and I don't mean your FB one where you said "I ate the best french toast ever for breakfast). Well then you tell him.

Some folks are fascinated with us though. You are lucky that you like men cause as TG women, we have a much better chance with men. Kind of bites for those of us who just aren't into men though.

Dating is all kinds of challenging for us. Men who like us just want one thing. Women who would consider us want us to try to be a man.

[SamanthaC]

Some folks are fascinated with us though. You are lucky that you like men cause as TG women, we have a much better chance with men. Kind of bites for those of us who just aren't into men though.

Dating is all kinds of challenging for us. Men who like us just want one thing. Women who would consider us want us to try to be a man.

Not to de-rail the OP, but I'm rather intrigued about this... I've no experience here, being pre-just-about-everything. Most of my lesbian friends are pretty girly or sorts... Or at least not the slightest bit manly. In fact, I'd only call one girl I know 'butch'. But she goes every which way, so perhaps a different case. I get on with them all famously... very similar personality for the most part.

What has people's experiences been? Do dates tend to freak out or just pass, preferring GGs? And when do you disclose the TS thing ( assuming post-op )? I kinda always thought it would be better to be up front entirely.

[Beverley Sims]

In your case and circumstances Abigail much sooner.
I would see what others advise in this situation though.
With me it was fun times and the rest of the crowd knew and the boy found out from them.
I had not gone any distance in a relationship apart from a couple of kisses.
It was taken in good spirit all the time.
One case went further and he never saw Beverley after the fourth date.
I feel sorry for him because he liked her and searched for a long time to find her.
That is when it can get serious.

[Rogina B]

It is all about how comfortable a person is with their own sexuality..and that applies to both the "suitor and the suitee"!

[FurPus63]

this is tough...

it is totally up to you and your intuition...stay safe and be prepared for rejection..
there is no perfect time to tell...i would think that anything more than a couple dates you have to tell...

sometimes i think that i tend to shy away from 2nd and 3rd dates because i am avoiding this issue...

if you have not had srs, then this is a much much more dangerous thing to be messing with...

Yes! How I agree! If you have had SRS I'd wait 'till something happens that tells you this person is special. If no SRS yet; then you better tell right away or you could end up in the hospital. I started dating online about a year or so ago and as a TS pre-op gotta tell you I put it in my profile that I was TG. If you don't and are dating as a female in a way you are deceiving men. I know we all understand we are woman, but the world doesn't perceive/understand that and it can lead to some serious consequences. Unless of course you are ultra conservative and believe in no sex 'till marriage. Then date whoever you want 'till you get SRS and then tell 'em? LOL!

Paulette

[abigailf]

Just don't "disclose" while parked in some alley or some place where things could get stupid. Dn't wait until right before a moment of intimacy.
Just when telling (if you do) maybe something like "I wasn't always female". If that goes OK, of course he will want to know your "status" (and I don't mean your FB one where you said "I ate the best french toast ever for breakfast). Well then you tell him.
...
Dating is all kinds of challenging for us. Men who like us just want one thing. Women who would consider us want us to try to be a man.

As far as telling, if I go on a second date I would indicate that there is stuff about me they will need to know if we feel our relationship is going to move forward. As I like to say "Everything I tell about myself is true, but I truly don't tell everything about myself." Not right away anyway. Which is why the title of this thread.



Yes! ... Unless of course you are ultra conservative and believe in no sex 'till marriage. Then date whoever you want 'till you get SRS and then tell 'em? LOL!
Paulette

I don't believe in sex until I have feelings for someone. Marriage is optional.

I don't believe in opening with it mostly because of what Nicole said. Rest assured that they are not telling you everything either. I read one profile where he said that he didn't want anyone with baggage. I'm sorry if you are running close to 50 and looking for the same, then baggage is coming like it or not. A person does not live half a century and not have baggage.

Everybody has something.

[Chickhe]

Having no real experience in this, I would say get to know them first, if the person is trustworthy tell them and do it before you get emotionally attached. And if you have people chasing you down because they find it interesting, so what?...isn't that a better problem, to pick from the possible vs. the unlikely chance that it will work out?

[Traci Elizabeth]

I will be the odd woman out here. I am post-op and KNOW myself to be 100% a non-reproductive woman, so I would not tell anyone anything. First it's none of their business and second, they won't know the difference if I had sex with them anyway. As my GYN told me two weeks ago, "Traci I am just amazed. your female genitalia is indistinguishable from any other woman's."

The one thing I would never say is that, "I use to be a guy." I was never a "guy" whether you believe that or not.

Now if you still have a penis you have some explaining to do if sex is on the horizon. Nevertheless, none of us can tell you what to do as each situation is unique unto itself. Only you can tell when the time is right if there is a reason to tell him.

[kellycan27]

While we are certainly under no moral obligation to disclose ...for "me" it was always more of a question of honesty and integrity. My right to not disclose does not trump his right to choose whether or not he wants to persue a relationship with me. Besides that I would hate living with a secret that could come back and bite me in the ass later on. No matter how stealth you feel that you are your past is always going to be looming somewhere in the background.
My husband ( who's initial reaction was to run away like a scolded dog) knows all about my past and I can tell you that it took a couple of years and a lot of heart felt talks, tears and heartaches before he was able to understand and accept that I truly was a woman. Some 5 years, 2 years married and two adopted children later.... I am loving life. I go to sleep at night and wake up in the morning with the comfort of knowing that this man loves and cares for me ... No matter what my past has been.

[melissaK]

Nice thread to read. I have no experience but see in everyone's comments possible future scenarios if things go bad in my marriage. (Right now my wife is still the object of all my desires, and she remains willing to stay for awhile so . . . )

Perhaps somewhat analogous, I once had a stubborn STD and found disclosure of that during subsequent dating was plenty problematic and awkward. ("I'd like to see you and sleep with you, really, but I'm still on these meds and I'd feel really bad if you caught it too . . . "). Certainly both are right up there on the list of what ever dating person wants to hear. NOT! Of course being TS isn't contagious, but then again it's permanent and an STD isn't (well most of 'em anyway).

God I hope my wife doesn't dump me. I'd forgotten how much stress dating causes!!

[Kathryn Martin]

Most answers on this thread sound like people who don't know what they are talking about. You really don't have options unless you have had SRS as Traci said. So post SRS the landscape looks a lot different and the considerations really change.

[FurPus63]

This so true. For someone like me who's pre-op. I have to tell my dates right away or risk all kinds of negative situations. Where as a post op has choices. Several options. They can go on two, three or more dates without saying a thing and who would blame them?

[abigailf]

Pre-op, post-op either way it makes no difference for me. Even as post-op they will find out eventually about me. I have a big family most of which still call me "he". I have tons of pictures as a male. I can't just fabricate a past in order to run stealth. Besides, I am fairly active as an advocate in the TG community. Google my full name and you get my blog and facebook page. The gig is up right there.

I will need to say something before I even share my last name with him, but definitely not on the first date. For me, I think it needs to be done just before we decide we are interesting enough to each other to pursue a deeper relationship.

I love all the responses though. It just goes to show that even though we all have so much in common that we are just so different from each other.

[DeeDee1974]

I would always tell right away. I've been with my bf over a year now so it's been awhile since I've even had to think about it.

Here's why I tell right away. I would rather someone reject me out right than go through dating someone, develop strong feelings and then be rejected after I feel invested.

My bf and I took our time to intimacy because he wasn't sure what it meant for his sexuality. It was hard for him the first time to deal with our similarities. In the beginning I always said don't do anything you don't want to do. In the end he always wanted to ;)

[Nigella]

I would always tell right away...

... Here's why I tell right away. I would rather someone reject me out right than go through dating someone, develop strong feelings and then be rejected after I feel invested.



That is called self preservation and should always be the overiding factor on when to tell or not.

[Nicki S]

Interesting thread... I am in this situation right now. Being pre-op, I have no choice but to end what we started and not go on a second date. The first date went very well and he wants to pursue a relationship. But I fear for my well being if he was to find out my underlying, soon to be extinct gender.

My decision is to part ways in a friendly manor, without disclosing my tender secret. You know, the lets be friends routine.

[noeleena]

Hi,

As a woman i would be telling who ever that im different it saves a lot of heart ache if there was going to be any thing serous ,

It may not sound like much being intersexed yet it can be , im very upfront & to the point, iv nothing to hide or be ashamed of, i am what i am & that cant be changed, if people cant handle that your different then its thier lose,

the other point is im a non sexual so if sex was expected they'd know straight away it wont happen, because i know most males would be interested in that side of things, i have lots of other aspects that would over come that lose, & sex is not the all of a sound relasionship , theres a lot more to it than just sex, a real love is one & that seems to me to be left out of many relastionships,

...noeleena...

[FurPus63]

Being pre-op, I have no choice end what we started and not go on a second date. The first date went very well and he wants to pursue a relationship. But I fear for my well being if he was to find out my underlying, soon to be extinct gender.

Now that is a bummer. I really think if you like him you should just tell the truth. He might be o.k. with it. Take a chance. What do you have to lose. But do it through IM or something so you don't get hit! LOL!

[abigailf]

I don't know what type of guy you girls date, but I have many guy friends and not a single one of them would hit a girl simply because she was trans (this applies to even before they found out about me). Some of them are bikers too, which by the way, bikers get a bad rap. They are some of the kindest people I know. Then again, I don't hang out with Hell's Angels :)

I know it is possible for violence, but if you did a halfway decent job pre-screening your date, then you have nothing to fear.

[kellycan27]

That's great if you date only date guys that you know. How do you pre-screen . Do you have them investigated? Does just talking to them give you an insight into how they may react to your being trans? I don't think that the majority of men would resort to violence upon discovery, but...... It only takes one.

Your last statement sounds like famous last words to me.. Just saying.

[CharleneT]

Pre-op, post-op either way it makes no difference for me. Even as post-op they will find out eventually about me. . . .

I will need to say something before I even share my last name with him, but definitely not on the first date. For me, I think it needs to be done just before we decide we are interesting enough to each other to pursue a deeper relationship.

. . . .

I disagree, and as has been hinted at in other posts, the world changes greatly after SRS. I caution you to not be too "out there" while pre-op ! After a while, after SRS/FFS ( should you choose that route ) you will - will - want your past to disappear as much as possible. The bigger the trail you leave now, the harder that is going to be. Trust me on this, whether you think so now or not ....

As for dating, if you are pre-op you will need to tell your date before you have sex. Before that point the choices depend on the relationship and a dozen or so factors. BUT whether you have checked out your dates carefully or not, you do need to be careful about telling them. Men do sometimes get pretty upset when they feel you have misled them about your gender - and that is going to be the most common reaction ( if they did not read you prior). Even men whom it would seem completely out of character to become upset over this, or even violent.

[Nicki S]

I myself find it a lot easier to end the dating that we started as opposed to telling him that I am a transwoman. I agree with Charlene on this, that having your past to be a small trail.
If I was to tell him of my past, I would permanently labeled in his eyes and the people he associates with. Since I did meet this particular man at a bar, and it is one that I would like to return too again. Discretion is my best option.

[Inna]

EXTREMELY PERSONAL!

Personal view of what is true and what is necessary, makes for impossible answer. On one hand, some are equipped with intrinsic knowledge of personalities easily judging people as to their character, however, for most, such gift of sight is non existent and only, through lengthy relationship, such can be deciphered.
If one is promiscuous or simply open to any offer, problems will arrive extremely quickly, and could easily get out of hand and dangerous.
If however, one approaches relationships with caution only allowing those in cultured and poised circles to dwell on possibilities of a relationship, possibility of drastic repercussion I believe, is rather remote.

The question of WHEN to tell, still remains though. It shall remain one of the most illusive of truths as people's perception of ones gender is as vast as is droplets of water in the oceans.

I truly believe that if a true person, without much luggage, falls in love, a true love with another, such reveal should not compromise the relationship. Said that, finding such true and wholesome individual would be a life quest in the least.

[kellycan27]

Hi,

As a woman i would be telling who ever that im different it saves a lot of heart ache if there was going to be any thing serous ,

Not everyone is looking for "real love" when they date... Some people just want to have some fun and interact with other people. And people generally can't handle that we're different and that makes it our loss too. We can ball our fists and put our backs against the wall, but how will that really help solve anything? ... Especially for those who want to date and enter into relationships?

[Jennifer Marie P.]

Hun tell him as soon as you can.Dont wait too long.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I have never been verbally abused, physically harmed, outed, or read.

"Yell" all you want, but those of us who have always been TS, and now post-op women, in my opinion, have no obligation to tell, if in fact, you know you are a woman. Even as a child I knew I was a girl and have lived as such most of my life including all through high school. So why would I tell anyone that I was born with a birth defect that has now been fixed?

I know a large number of you will scream "fowl" and so be it. I live my life my way, and you can live your life your way. This is what works for me and none of you will influence me otherwise. And to those who scream "I am lying or living a lie," I say "BS" as I am legally and physically a "non-reproductive female."

I make no apologies! If you want to tell the world you are "TS" go ahead, I chose to tell the world I am a female because I am.

I am at the age and point in my life that I do what's best for "Traci." I choose not to befriend TS. Post-op women who are living their lives as women sure but not those who embrace the "TS" dogma.

What shocks me is those who have gone to hell and back to become a woman then want to hold or to that "TS" label or broadcast that even to a boyfriend that they are/were "TS". Your either a woman or you are not. Why would you go through all the pain and suffering, loss of family members, friends, career, job, and expend all the thousands of dollars to transition only to tell a prospective date, BF, etc. "I'M a "TS" or " I was born with a penis.

In my dictionary "transition" is going from one state to another. Awe never mind! If explaining that you once had a penis floats your boat then by all means tell a date beforehand, during, or after.

[Kathryn Martin]

While I would not have expressed it quite a strongly as Traci, I also believe that post women are in a completely different situation especially if they pass without issue. I don't think a casual date would be entitled to know about my kidney stones at age 16, my wrist fracture at 28 or my surgery. It is entirely different for me when I meet a real partner. He would be entitled to know but certainly not immediately.

[Bareone]

Here's why I tell right away. I would rather someone reject me out right than go through dating someone, develop strong feelings and then be rejected after I feel invested

I agree, let them know before the feelings and the first kiss comes. I have another question, when do you tell your family you married a TG, who they have met and considered family?

[Diversity]

I'd say tell them right from the start so they don't get into the relationship and think you deceived them, which will make most men angry. If you are proud of yourself, and you are comfortable with yourself, then hold that conviction and be strong enought to tell your dates on date one. It's only fair to to them as well.
Di

[Nicki S]

Not everyone is looking for "real love" when they date... Some people just want to have some fun and interact with other people.

I think Kelly hit the nail on the head!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Traci your points have some merit...some of us seem to wear the ts label from a perspective of feeling like there is something wrong with us...we should do everything we can as a group to dump any stigma around our lives...and for the most part its nobodies business..

but we are not talking about "telling the world" as you say.....only you are...

.. you are in a committed relationship
...this is about meeting potential lovers/mates .. you have nothing in your life to back up your big words.....

and much of your posting here puts words in others mouths and attacks the person instead of sharing an idea....

this thread is about practical dating realities...not theories
dogma?? look in the mirror girl..

[Serana]

Ya know, I'm not really sure about this.

If I was in this situation, then I wouldn't be fool hardy enough to look around where straight men are whilst I'm going through transition, I'd look around trans-friendly places, considering how many of them there are, and not all men are interested in someone "because they're a tranny" and it's not just a kink for them. Some are genuinely interested in meeting WOMAN who want to go out on a date and such, and who knows where it may lead etc.

There are enough trans friendly places that people can go to, so why put yourself in a difficult situation? If you're not prepare to explain yourself from the very onset, then you shouldn't be prepared to date men that aren't aware of it before a date is even set up.

It just seems ridiculous. If it happens to be someone you have gotten to know over time, then it's different, depends on the kind of dating we're talking about here. How long have they known you etc, and if it's those that you're trying through a dating service or something akin to that, then use a trans friendly service to meet people.

I actually do agree with Traci, and I'm not in a committed relationship at all.

If I wanted to go around dating guys/girls/whatever that weren't aware I was trans before the date, then I'd be certainly be prepared to tell them either before the date, or after the first date when they're not near you to lash out.

Being cautious is more important than anything else, so why risk your safety over a date with what could turn out to be a very close-minded person.

[Kittie]

Fairly obtuse from your side Traci, you seem to have completely misunderstood the purpose of this thread. There's an entire world of difference between walking around with an "I'm TS" sticker on your head and preventing yourself from dating someone under false pretence. "I say "BS" as I am legally and physically a "non-reproductive female" doesn't fecking work if you're still toting a floppy sausage between your legs, does it? Stop sitting in denial on your self-appointed "Post-Op" throne; that's unbelievably disrespectful to those who have "outed" themselves and fought for the freedoms you're now enjoying.

Back to the actual point of the thread; it's already been said it's a more dangerous game to play when you still have male genitalia. Part of me would want to tell them ASAP just to get it out of the way and find out whether he was any amount of open-minded. Another part of me would wait longer and let the guy get to know me for ME and not a label, which may prevent an instant reactive rejection. All this is subjective though, based on whether things are going to get serious or intimate. Really it's all about mutual respect and honesty.

[Michelle.M]

I have never been verbally abused, physically harmed, outed, or read.

Lucky you.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, the reality of many, perhaps even most of the girls who participate in this sort of discussion is diametrically opposed to yours.

Look, I think it's safe to say that we all hang out here for the free exchange of ideas and opinions, and your perspective is valuable and interesting in most cases. But I really have to ask how you feel that you have anything constructive to say on this topic?

I've followed your posts for the past couple of years and as far as I can tell you transitioned in the context of your marriage. Isn't that true, or am I mistaken?

When would you ever have had the opportunity to experience the same dating challenges as the others who are commenting here? When, at any time during your transition, did you ever have to actually ponder as to whether or not you should disclose your gender status to someone you were dating?

These girls are dealing with a very real problem, and as far as I can tell you're merely mucking up the discussion of a serious issue (and one with potentially dangerous consequences) with arcane notions of what should be and not of what is real - except in the life of a married post-op transwoman who probably hasn't had to concern herself with the realities of dating in either gender since she got married to her current spouse.

Or am I mistaken? I'd love to be wrong on this (really, I would)! Please explain how your opinions are helping these girls find a practical solution to a very real and serious problem. I know that you're trying to make a contribution, but your ideas on how single, pre-op transwomen should conduct themselves in a situation where you don't seem to have any experience make as much sense as those same transwomen trying to explain to you the ramifications of GRS.


I am at the age and point in my life that I do what's best for "Traci." I choose not to befriend TS.

And you may have already answered my question.


Back to the actual point of the thread; it's already been said it's a more dangerous game to play when you still have male genitalia. Part of me would want to tell them ASAP just to get it out of the way and find out whether he was any amount of open-minded. Another part of me would wait longer and let the guy get to know me for ME and not a label, which may prevent an instant reactive rejection. All this is subjective though, based on whether things are going to get serious or intimate. Really it's all about mutual respect and honesty.

And ultimately that's the best and most practical answer to this dilemma. We're not all dating the same man, we don't all have the same degree of passability, we're not all operating under the same set of conditions. What is undesirable to one is useful to another or vitally important to yet one more girl on the dating scene.

Make your own decision based on your own set of circumstances, values and goals. Just remember, it's better to be dumped than be delivered to a hospital in an ambulance.

[Mistybtm]

For me it is always before the first date. It is safer that way you both know what to expect if anything where to happen. But then Again i only date men that are looking for trans woman and yes it is A sexual thing for me. I am only looking for fun and not really looking for A relationship at this time. If it happens it happens if not i am going to enjoy the ride wile I am young enough to enjoy it.

[abigailf]

I'm sorry, but a not-trans non-reproducing woman will not introduce herself like that. There is no reason we as trans need to either. With that said ...

I started another thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?190317-Did-telling-your-date-result-in-physical-violence&highlight=)about violence after telling a date. Several posters talked about violence, but not in context of the question. Most reported that although there may have been anger after disclosure that there was very few occurrences of violence.

The reason behind that, and this is my theory until proven incorrect, is that as women, we tend to try and date men suitable to ourselves. Since we as trans people tend to be more intelligent than most of the non-trans population, we tend to date men in our league, men that will more likely react to things intelligently. In addition, as an older trans person there is less likely a chance for violence than for the younger crowd as the factor of wisdom then comes into play. Again, it is just a theory.

I have had an interesting experience this week on my trip to Abu Dhabi which I will post in greater detail once I am able to write it out. But the short of it is I met a man on the beach. It is probably worth noting at this point that I am pre-op and I pass such that people with tran'ar don't know I am trans unless I tell them.

I had a great time with this man up until the point I had him in my bed the following evening wanting him to frack my brains out. I had to stop him and he left disappointing and probably pissed though he did not show it. This is clearly an example of waiting too long. And I know the cautious and the fear mongols will say "you are so lucky!", or "you should be careful you are going to get hurt." This may all be well and true, but I trust my instincts and when they are wrong I trust my skills. However, I was challenged with something I didn't expect ... guilt!

I felt like crap for leading that man on fully knowing it wasn't going to go anywhere. Since I was likely never to see him again, I should have ended it after our great time out to dinner and the dance club. But no, I had to see how much further I was willing to go. Perhaps it was the tequila, but this error wasn't in my judgement of safety. It was in my judgement of morals.

The issue being discussed in this thread transcends to more than just safety which seems to be what many people are dwelling on. What we need to think about is what is morally correct.

[Michelle.M]

. . . But the short of it is I met a man on the beach. . . I had a great time with this man up until the point I had him in my bed the following evening . . . I was challenged with something I didn't expect ... guilt!

I wish you had opened with this, as that would have changed the entire tone of this thread and made for an entirely more helpful (or at least more interesting) discussion rather than the usual "Oh, golly, I don't know if I should tell or not!"

I'll be looking forward to reading your thread on that experience.


Perhaps it was the tequila, but this error wasn't in my judgement of safety. It was in my judgement of morals.

The issue being discussed in this thread transcends to more than just safety which seems to be what many people are dwelling on. What we need to think about is what is morally correct.

I think safety is the go-to theme because it's the one we deal with most frequently and it's the aspect of dating that has the most serious consequences.

And let's be honest, the moral aspects of revealing one's status have also been addressed here, but perhaps not to the extent that this issue has apparently been weighing on your mind.

I'm of the opinion that the real work of transition is mostly internal and not as much physical as we'd like to believe. And these are the kinds of experiences that help us grow as emerging women and enable us to transcend from "pre" to "post", especially when one is wrestling with psychological, social and ethical issues.

Again, I'll be looking forward to your thoughts on this issue.

[Lacyfem]

I'm a bit confused as you state the following on your flickr site.

"I am married and dedicated to my relationship to my family. I am not looking for anything more than friendship and pleasant company, nothing sexual. So if you are looking for anything sexual, I am not your girl."

If you're now dating, what happened with the family. Also, my opinion is if a guy likes you and wants to date you that you should be right out front with him. If he doesn't care then have a great date and if he's not sure perhaps you can go on the date a get some insight on his hesitances which could help you out in future dates.

Either way good luck.

[AnitaFloridaGal]

I agree with some of the other ladies posting here. I advise telling the man before you even have the first date. I think it is better to be rejected for sharing who you really are than mislead someone about yourself. No one is 100% passable all the time and it is not practical for most of us to live in complete stealth in every situation. Sooner or later your man is bound to find out. If he is Mr. Right then he will understand. That's how I handle it. I certainly respect others handling it differently.

Hugs & Kisses
Anita:battingeyelashes:

[Tara D. Rose]

I have never been verbally abused, physically harmed, outed, or read.............

I am confused, Traci.

On 09-14-2012 11:33 AM: You said,
"After being abducted, I tried "not" to back down. I was beaten and kicked to a pulp, received a broken nose, several broken bones, many stitches, and worse violently viciously raped then beaten again until the perpetrator thought I was dead. He left me in the woods for the animals to take care of his evil deeds."

L&R,
Tara D. Rose

[abigailf]

I wish you had opened with this...

Lol - it didn't happen yet when I started the thread.




I'm of the opinion that the real work of transition is mostly internal and not as much physical as we'd like to believe. And these are the kinds of experiences that help us grow as emerging women and enable us to transcend from "pre" to "post", especially when one is wrestling with psychological, social and ethical issues.


This is clearly one of the top pieces of wisdom I have read to date on any transitioning topic.



I'm a bit confused as you state the following on your flickr site.

"I am married..."


Haha, much has changed since I updated my profile last on Flickr.



If you're now dating, what happened with the family.


That is somewhat explained between my posts to this site and my blog. I don't think this is the right thread for that, but the short of it is we are separated.

--

I agree that an early disclosure is the right, moral and safe thing to do. However, not when you meet someone for the very first time. They don't need to know that about you until you both connect and feel it is a relationship worth pursuing.

I don't normally go up to complete strangers and say "Hi, I'm trans." At the end of a first meeting if you don't want to take it further, than that person is still a stranger, they don't need to know.

By the way, a first time you meet someone and a first date are different. They both can happen at the same time, but don't have to. A person you just met for the first time does not need to know unless the relationship (platonic or otherwise) is to continue.

[ReineD]

While we are certainly under no moral obligation to disclose ...for "me" it was always more of a question of honesty and integrity.

^ This, although circumstances will vary depending on the type of relationship and long term goals.

BUT ... my biggest fear, if I were TS, would be to have him find out from someone else, if we were an item. I don't know how feasible it is to totally divorce oneself from one's past .. there are bound to be parents, siblings, children maybe, even if a transwoman moves to a new town with her new name, and new everything else.

What if we're in a restaurant and we run into someone who just knows me and my past? I'd hate living my life constantly looking over my shoulder.

What are the chances of being dropped, even if the relationship has gotten close enough to think about long term together?

Is anyone concerned about this?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Reine,

IN the end it is just a very tiny subset of people that will be able to live a life and "never tell"...young people...
you are describing one very possible way for your guy to find out about your past.....

for almost everyone else its a practical concern...add safety to the mix, and it just screams out that unless you want to get hurt emotionally, get hurt physically, or hurt someone else, you have to tell....whether its a 2nd,3rd or 5th date, or before one sexual act of another can be debated forever...

its a fair thing to say that some guys will be ok with us, and its fair to say that maybe we can all just do a good job picking guys that are ok...but when your heart is in the mix, that's pretty hard

[Michelle.M]

BUT ... my biggest fear, if I were TS, would be to have him find out from someone else, if we were an item.

Is anyone concerned about this?

Nope. I am selectively out. My son, brother and best old Army buddy know. Son's wife and kids know and he has told my ex. Brother has told his wife. I'm out to only a couple of other people I am close to and to about 5 trans friends. That's it. And most of these folks aren't even local.

I don't out myself unnecessarily and never to anyone who's so indiscreet as to simply shoot their mouth off in such a haphazard way. The likelihood that anyone would run into me and a date in a restaurant and greet me with a "Hi! Good to see you! Have you told him that you're trans?" is pretty darned remote.

[Deborah_UK]

This thread has become quite relevant in Scotland! http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/man-%E2%80%98guilty%E2%80%99-fraud-not-telling-girlfriend-he-was-trans070313

So when does it stop being a moral issue and becomes a legal one?

[Kittie]

The issue in that case is not transsexuality, it's the fact he lied about his age and this resulted in him laying with an under-age girl who also lied about her age. The tabloid merely took that tid-bit of information to add an extra teaspoon of controversy to what would otherwise be a 'normal' rape case. This is the reason I wouldn't wipe my ass with most of the bullshit that gets printed these days. It's shameful editors have this kind of mentality. Like there isn't enough stigma around transsexuality without being branded as deviant sexual predators. Shit isn't worth the tree felled to make the paper it's printed on. A MALE had sex with an under-age FEMALE. That is as far as that case goes and has no bearing on TS issues.

[Deborah_UK]

Kittie, with respect I think you're wrong. The under age female wasn't concerned about having sex with a 17 yeat old male, but the fact that the male still had female genitalia, that's what made her so distraught. I think the worry is the Scottish courts seem to interpret the matter that if you are TS you have a legal obligation to disclose as opposed to the tenet of this thread as to whether you have a moral obligation to disclose.

[Serana]

‘This means that in practice any trans man or trans woman who keeps their gender identity to themselves runs the risk, should their partner later find out and object, of being charged in a similar manner.'

I think it's these words here from that article that, UK-wise, may mean anyone who is trans, and wants to have a relationship, or are about to engage in sexual intercourse with a date, should really tell their partners.

It's a small surprise how the law is working, but I can understand it. However, how they could constitute it as rape if an SO found out and reported it... is pretty strange, to say the least.
Unless it caused mental trauma to the person who found out, I don't think it should be class-able as ay form of rape. Perhaps a crime of coercion, yes, but certainly not rape.

But, then you have to look at gender stereotypes too, and how FtMs and MtFs are seen differently to eachother, as they are two different genders mentally.

It's all rather complicated and strange. The fact that the girl was under-age however is what has caused this to blow out of proportion. But if the girl lied about her age... then who's to blame in that regard? Yes he also lied, but he thought she was legal age.

I remember a case like this before, where a woman got prison time for having sex with an underage male that had lied about their age, in a club. She still got slammed by the old bill, even though she was none the wiser.

I think a case like this from GSN though perhaps shows some of my feelings on telling dates about being trans, mainly if you're pre-op. If you're post-op, I feel the situation can be different. But if it was an MtF that had done this, and it was with an underage boyfriend, I'm still pretty sure the trans person wouldn't be walking about without some need of help after.