CD vs GAY

[Donniesr]

I'm writing this because of the mis conception between being a crossdresser and being gay. One does NOT automatically mean the other.

Alot of people think that because I am a crossdresser that I am also gay. This is not true.

Alot of gay men are not crossdressers, and alot of crossdressers are not gay. This is a mis-conception with mainstream society. People think that just because I wear a dress, that makes me gay. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I wish, hope and pray that people can come to their senses and really see the difference. After all, whats the difference from a woman wearing blue jeans and a flannel shirt, from a man wearing a black velvet dress? I don't see any difference at all. Its all in what makes you feel like who you are..


I think that if a woman wants to dress like a construction worker, she has that right. I also think that if a man wants to dress as a super model, he has that right.

We are guaranteed that in the Constitution of the USA.. Donna

[NathalieX66]

Think of it this way:
Straight are attracted to women. ....must be something about women that appeals to straight guys. Everyone has their interpretation of what it is.

[Jilmac]

When people have asked me if I'm gay I'll tell them, "if gay means happy, yes, I'm happy with who I am.

[flatlander_48]

I'm writing this because of the mis conception between being a crossdresser and being gay. One does NOT automatically mean the other.

Alot of people think that because I am a crossdresser that I am also gay. This is not true.

Alot of gay men are not crossdressers, and alot of crossdressers are not gay. This is a mis-conception with mainstream society. People think that just because I wear a dress, that makes me gay. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

The problem is that society at large has no context with which to understand this. Their conditioning says that "other than" behavior MUST be gay. On the other hand, we know that being gay is more than just who is next to you in bed. It is how you look to form relationships, who you find attractive, how you align yourself politically, etc. It just doesn't begin and end in the bedroom.

Somehow folks must get the correct information and I don't know how that would happen other than being told by us. Unfortunately that is a slow and potentially painful way to do it, but what else is there?

[docrobbysherry]

You're preaching to the choir here, Donnie.

However, I'd much rather folks think I'm gay rather than a perv!

[whowhatwhen]

Or you could use it to your advantage...
I like to think I have a "gay buffer", since everyone assumes (or they may be right, who knows?) that I'm gay I have a space where I can be a little more free to do things without raising an even bigger eyebrow.

Ear piercing? "Makes sense, he's probably gay"
Carrying a purse? "Totally gay"
Hair removal? "OH COME ON JUST COME OUT!"

(Note: quotes are just what I imagine everyone thinking)

Either way I get a nice buffer to work in, and at the same time I don't need to correct anyone since there is nothing wrong with being gay.
Go on... embrace the gay buffer!

:D

[vivianann]

Society has been conditioned by the media and movies that if you wear a dress you must be gay. I used to be bothered when peaple asked if I was gay when I was crossdressed. But as time went on I now have a different attitude about it. I welcome the are you gay question now because it gives me the opportunity to educate peaple that most of us are strait. and also explain to them why I wear womens clothes, It is a way to educate society one person at a time.

[Sylvermane]

When I first came out as TG to my mother the first thing she asked me was "are you gay?" Caught me off guard her being one of the most open minded people I know. But it is just what society thinks as a whole. It's an annoying double standard to. Women can dress however they want and it's perfectly acceptable. Even lesbians are generally more tolerated than gay men from what I've seen. But put a guy in a dress and everyone has something to say, usually not positive... at least where I currently live. Is frustrating to say the least and is one of the main reasons that I don't venture out of my apartment en-femme.

[Beverley Sims]

Donna,
You are speaking to the converted here.
We know where we are but the problem is the rest of the world.

[Betty_42]

I can actually relate! When I started to get "more into it", even my wife was wondering if I was in fact gay. When my father and stepmother learned that I liked to wear panties, they too thought I was gay. It's sickening to say the least! Why is it okay to be a tomboy, but everyone thinks you're gay if you're a sissy?

[Stephanie47]

There are many misconceptions in society concerning appearances and sexuality. I've known many women who are misconstrued as being lesbians because they look 'butch,' when they are straight. I've known drop dead gorgeous knockouts who are what every man dreams about, yet they are lesbians. The Marlboro man was gay, yet he portrayed the manliness of smoking cigarettes. The list goes on.

It's nothing but societal norms and expectations of behavior, conditioning. Since the vast majority of cross dressers cannot figure out why we do what we do, how do you explain it to others? It's easy to describe the feelings one experiences, but, I have not seen anyone explain the why.

PS: There is no constitutional guarantee to cross dress. Only those rights enumerated in the US Constitution are within the purview of the federal government. Everything else is reserved for the states and individuals. My right to wear women's clothing, i.e., to present as a women, is not guaranteed by the US Constitution, nor the Washington State Constitution, but, by legislative statute.

[biggirlsarah]

If I dress as a woman how can someone assume that I am gay ,because if I want to be attractive to a gay man then the last thing I would do is dress like a woman, because gay men aren't attracted to women.

[kittypw GG]

Alot of gay men are not crossdressers, and alot of crossdressers are not gay. This is a mis-conception with mainstream society. People think that just because I wear a dress, that makes me gay. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Donna

I came to the conclusion that cd's might mostly be gay but in denial from being married to a gay cd, reading so many threads about attractions to men and other cd's and from confessions of married cd's. It wasn't "mainstream society" that gave me that idea but THIS society of individuals.

[PaulaQ]

Other than your spouse (who may wonder if you are unfaithful or that you simply don't want them anymore), what difference does it make whether or not people think you are gay? There is nothing wrong with being gay.


I've known many women who are misconstrued as being lesbians because they look 'butch,' when they are straight. I've known drop dead gorgeous knockouts who are what every man dreams about, yet they are lesbians. The Marlboro man was gay, yet he portrayed the manliness of smoking cigarettes.

Indeed. I've seen t-shirts with messages I won't repeat here, that are designed specifically to disambiguate these tricky situations.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I came to the conclusion that cd's might mostly be gay but in denial from being married to a gay cd, reading so many threads about attractions to men and other cd's and from confessions of married cd's. It wasn't "mainstream society" that gave me that idea but THIS society of individuals.

Everyone is unique and is certainly entitled to be themselves, but sometimes I wonder how the GG SOs must feel whenever there is a "do you claim to be straight but are really bi" thread. While there certainly those who are bi, there are plenty of us who are straight... but perhaps far more important, are faithful and monogamous to their SOs (or if they don't have an SO, are perfectly capable of being so.) I certainly don't blame you for feeling the way you do, and sadly as I have known a number of wives who have been burned by their unfaithful crossdressing (secretly bi) husbands.

[Pythos]

When someone asks me if I am gay I just respond "well, I like women" when in full fem or Androg fem. Really cause in those modes where I look female to say I am "straight" would mean I like men, cause "straight" women like men. LOL.
Seriously though, if someone asks to make it really easy for the nosey nelly, just say what sex you prefer. In my case I would have to say, "I like women or intersexed women" since my ex was I.S. and it was well known we were dating. :P

[NeKoi]

Just yesterday my friend commented that cross dressing guys are is gay. And I asked what about a girl wearing guys clothes and she replied "sexy". I felt like screaming out every single point of irrationality in that logic, but decided to just let live.

Its odd how sometimes people can have such interesting perspective of things....

I have to agree with many of you with the part where not all gay men cross dress, and not all cross dressers are gay. In my opinion, I would think that most gay men don't cross dress. Pretty straight forward: They like being male, and are attracted to males. Cross dressers (specifically MtF as I don't really know much about FtM) are a more complicated bunch. They are male, want to be female (sometimes if not all the time) and are typically attracted to females (sometimes males or even both).

[AmyGaleRT]

"CD = gay" is a very common misconception, Donna. In actuality, I'm told that the percentage of CDs who are gay is about the same as it is for the general population.

But look at it this way, if you want a reductio ad absurdam argument: If you're a man and you're gay, you're attracted to other men. Presumably, you would be attracted to men who are themselves attracted to men, otherwise, it's just an exercise in futility, right? Why, then, would you dress as a woman--i.e. someone who your intended target probably IS NOT attracted to? (It's an oversimplification, of course, but you get the idea.)

The point being, "gay" and "CD" are two different, mostly orthogonal behaviors. And they each encompass so many variations that they defy easy analysis.

- Amy

[Kate Simmons]

Many of those assumptions go with the "turf" of crossdressing and we should expect them. In some cases, we, ourselves, perpetuate the stereotypes either unconsciously or by design. The main deal is if we can't stand the "heat" ,we should perhaps leave the "kitchen".:)

[Raychel]

In my mind people get the thought that one group of people are one certain way.
They may have thoughts about one race of people, Gay People, Crossdressers.
Whatever, I feel that people are who they are. Until you get to know the inner person
really get into there minds and see what they think and how they truely work.
Only then would you be able to form a true opinion of any person.

I just wish that everyone would think this way.

[Sara Jessica]

Why are you all that concerned with what others might think or perceive? After all, you are running around in a dress.

[genevie]

I was telling my wife about a guy who likes to wear skirts with his male clothes. She said he must be gay. I tried to argue a bit. No she said, skirt equals gay. Of course she said that when I shaved my legs. She is used to that now and likes the feel (after a month of not being able to look at them). I keep trying to bring up little ideas. First response is always that big G word.

[Karren H]

Why are you telling us that? You should be telling them.... who don't already know.....

[danielleinbr]

Why are you all that concerned with what others might think or perceive? After all, you are running around in a dress.

What Sara Jessica said. And just always be true to yourself
Danielle

[Frédérique]

I think that if a woman wants to dress like a construction worker, she has that right. I also think that if a man wants to dress as a super model, he has that right. We are guaranteed that in the Constitution of the USA...

Freedom of expression you mean? The problem comes when people argue over what the word “expression” entails, and the people doing the arguing are the voices of conformity, not the voices of FEELING. As soon as you tell someone that you are merely expressing yourself, via your chosen mode of crossdressing, another person will say that you’re disturbing the peace by insisting on being openly iconoclastic. Who do you turn to then? The Supreme Court? You may feel that you have the right to dress as you wish, and you do, but you are also expected to respect the rights of others, and not upset the proverbial societal apple cart in your pursuit of expression...

Rights are largely ephemeral, infinitely negotiable, and the rights of the many outweigh the rights of the few. A non-understandable thing like crossdressing gets no respect simply because it is so hard for outsiders to understand. The other parts of the U.S. Constitution surround free thinking and free expression like an angry mob, paying lip service to those inherent human emotions that allowed people to imagine freedom in the first place. Unfortunately, all people do not think the same (take this site, for example!), so good luck trying to dress like a super model OUT THERE. A woman dressed as a construction worker may be more successful, simply because she’s doing something constructive*, rather than destructive (in gender terms)...

*Pun intended... :clap:

[Maria S]

As the UK entertainer of the 70s and 80s Larry Grayson used to say "Oh what a gay day".

I don't care if strangers think I'm gay. I know I'm not, my wife certainly knows I'm not, my ex-girlfriends (before I met my wife) know I'm not. My family and friends know I'm not admittedly they don't know Maria well but that's beside the point.

All people get put in various groups such as Scots and Jews are tight but this is not so. There are probably no more or less proportionally than any other nationality or religion.

Maria

[Prissy Linda]

Or you could use it to your advantage...
I like to think I have a "gay buffer", since everyone assumes (or they may be right, who knows?) that I'm gay I have a space where I can be a little more free to do things without raising an even bigger eyebrow.

Ear piercing? "Makes sense, he's probably gay"
Carrying a purse? "Totally gay"
Hair removal? "OH COME ON JUST COME OUT!"

(Note: quotes are just what I imagine everyone thinking)

Either way I get a nice buffer to work in, and at the same time I don't need to correct anyone since there is nothing wrong with being gay.
Go on... embrace the gay buffer!

:D

I like the gay buffer concept, I'm pretty sure people who see me carrying a purse, wearing earrings and a bit of makeup in boy mode think i'm gay (which includes somewhat feminine mannerisms), If i'm fully dressed as a girl and don't totally pass they think i'm gay, I don't have the time or need to explain myself to everyone who sees me so if they think I'm gay, that's ok with me. Gays don't have to explain why they are gay, I don't have to either.

[PertyX]

People come to their senses? Not in this lifetime.

I'm not gay. I wear girls stuff because I worship femininity. I love women so much, I want to know how it feels to be one...

[Lorileah]

I am not gay but my boyfriend is :)

Choir meet preacher.

Kitty, unfortunately this forum does perpetuate certain ideas. The "fantasy" of being with a man when dressed is one of the biggest. And we certainly know that when GG's come here they get a skewed vision of the community. Not much we can do about that without making the rules so tight there will only be threads about what we are wearing. However, I see this as a picking and choosing issue. Yes there are many threads about the fantasy, but there are equal or more about how the TG community is very devoted to being with women (especially wives).

The stereotype has been around for a long time. It is hard to break stereotypes, especially when some reinforce them (i.e. the I want a man while dressed) threads. But that is what needs to be done. Being a diverse group though, there will be some here who do not fantasize but live it out. These get noticed more than the everyday people.

[whowhatwhen]

I like the gay buffer concept, I'm pretty sure people who see me carrying a purse, wearing earrings and a bit of makeup in boy mode think i'm gay (which includes somewhat feminine mannerisms), If i'm fully dressed as a girl and don't totally pass they think i'm gay, I don't have the time or need to explain myself to everyone who sees me so if they think I'm gay, that's ok with me. Gays don't have to explain why they are gay, I don't have to either.

The best part is that no one cares or says anything.
I haven't gotten into makeup yet, but no one has said anything even if I wore dangly earrings out.



I am not gay but my boyfriend is


I will never stop loving this saying.

[Jenniferathome]

I think you are preaching to the wrong choir.

[Marleena]

Why are you all that concerned with what others might think or perceive? After all, you are running around in a dress. This is the key. People automatically assume you're gay unless you tell them otherwise. Just the way it is.

BTW Kitty loves these threads because it gives her a chance to lash out at the rest of us because her husband was a bad apple that just happened to be transgender.

[ArleneRaquel]

People will think what they want to think...I don't give a d..... what people think, not anymore.

[Angela Campbell]

A long time ago, when I was young....maybe 40 years or so, the word gay was not used to represent homosexuality at all. It meant happy. A homosexual or a crossdresser, or a TG of any form was simply "queer". It meant different from mainstream. It was like death to be thought of that way. You would be shunned, ostrasized, even beaten. Once that label was put on you, even if it was wrong, it was forever.(unless you beat the person who called you that to a bloody pulp) It didn't take much either to get called that name. Look at another boy for a second too long, be caught masturbating, not be strong enough or tough enough, walk wrong, even watching a soap opera was enough. When changing for gym class and be seen to be less endowed than the others, or god forbid do something the girls do ...like cooking!

I think it is this which is still in play today. At that time anything sexual and out of the normal was queer which today equals "gay", so if you wear a dress you are gay to their minds. It is still a holdover even though homosexuality is a lot more accepted today than it was then, some things have not progressed as much.

[Matia]

When I was a kid and I already enjoyed crossdressing, my biggest fear was, that people will think that I am gay..

what do I think now ? There's nothing wrong with being gay, if someone wants to label me and be ignorant, it's
only saying what kind of person he/she is, not me. I know what I am, so does my girlfriend.

I also feel like understanding gender issues and finding out more about my bigenderism makes me feel that
I am part of the whole LGBTI rainbow movement, and it's only cowardly to pretend that I am "ordinery" straight guy, with just a little whim in dressing

[Wildaboutheels]

I happen to believe that MOST "sharp people" will figure out [certainly by the age of 20] that clothes ALONE don't make the man. Or the woman. No matter how weird or outlandish or "wrong" or inappropriate their clothing choices might seem to be compared to what most people wear. It's what INSIDE that counts and how they TREAT others. And for a person that would categorically state what another's sexual persuasion IS... based simply on their clothing? Not a person that "gets it" or has spent enough time in the RW paying attention IMO. Of course most everyone will stereotype at least one group if not many with so many media outlets today helping to perpetuate so many myths.

And the vast majority of "unsharp" people are never going to change their minds although a few might. Sooooooo, it really doesn't matter what they think or say does it? Isn't it rather silly to fret about something you have ZERO control over? All you can do is treat people the way YOU want to be treated and educate the ones that seem open minded and/or curious enough to actually ask you. That IS how people learn. By asking AND listening.

They might just turn out to be both accepting and understanding and help spread the word?

The bottom line is that so few people even know or realize the differnce between straight, bi and gay. By being "different" you have the "opportunity" to teach the people with open minds.

[bimini1]

All the public sees of any CDing it's gay. Rupaul, all of that whole trip. If you weren't a crossdresser you would say the same thing.

[flatlander_48]

If I dress as a woman how can someone assume that I am gay ,because if I want to be attractive to a gay man then the last thing I would do is dress like a woman, because gay men aren't attracted to women.

I know that and you know that, but you have to realize that conditioning is not rational. It just IS.

[Emma Leigh]

The Flock cant cope with anything that does,nt fit into their stereotype or anybody who dares to be different like not having a shaved head and having long hair...therefore in their eyes I must be gay cos I dont conform......and thats without them knowing about the cd,ing....for the record..I,m not

[flatlander_48]

We really should pay more attention to the LGBT community. They figured out a long time ago that people are less likely to have negative thoughts about gay people (I'm using the broadest sense here) if you put a face on it. In other words, it's very easy to hold negative opinions against a faceless monolith. However, when you start to put faces on it and connect lives to it, something shifts for people. It doesn't help in all cases, but we already knew that.

Something else to remember is that here in the US there are various pieces of legislation known as ENDA (employee non-discrimination act) and GENDA (gender expression non-discrimination act). In MANY places in the US, people can lose their jobs for being, or perceived to be, gay. Sexual orientation is not covered in the way most laws are currently written. However, GENDA is probably the one that has the most potential for transgender people. Very few places have the GENDA concept in their non-discrimination statutes. Basically it would define the rights of transgender folks in the workplace. It doesn't mean that you could flip-flop back and forth between male and female presentation. But, it does mean that if you are legitimately transitioning, your employer can't just up and fire you.

We need to remember that we all are under the umbrella of what is called Sexual Minorities. When we band together as gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex, crossdressers and two spirited, we have much better leverage for having ENDA and GENDA legislation enacted. The "I don't care what people think" logic is not helpful at all in this context.

[flatlander_48]

All the public sees of any CDing it's gay. Rupaul, all of that whole trip. If you weren't a crossdresser you would say the same thing.

RuPaul is gay...

[AmyGaleRT]

RuPaul is gay...

RuPaul belongs to the "drag queen" subset of crossdressers, and that particular subset is both predominantly gay, and predominantly doing it for entertainment purposes. Not really the same thing as most of us.

For my part, I'm going to try to take that quote from that one Robert Heinlein story to heart. If I'm out as Amy, and someone calls me "gay," well, I know I'm not, so their verbal label is meaningless. If they call me a "tranny"...well, that is a term for what I am, and I am neither more nor less that thing because they chose to label it.

- Amy

[bimini1]

RuPaul is gay...


Well that's my point. To the general masses, this is all they see of it. They are conditioned to see dressed as a woman=gay. And if you or I were not Cders, we would be subject to that same programming.

The clincher is, the media has painted him as some sort of expert/spokesman on trans affairs, which is tragic. I don't think he knows the first thing about TG. How can someone who says, and I quote, "I'm not on of those weirdo's who likes to dress up in his wife's clothes and go out shopping" ( a direct jab at hetero-CDs), speak on anything trans?

[flatlander_48]

The thing is RuPaul was gay LONG before he ever started performing dressed as a female. I would think that he views himself as a gay man who does drag professionally. As I understand it, the first time he crossdressed it was to perform. It wasn't to go out just to do it. He started as a dancer and later evolved in doing drag. You'll notice that I've used a male pronoun to refer to RuPaul. He has stated that referring to him as male or female is OK and doesn't really matter. That's a thought process very different from what you would find here.

Unfortunately the media likes lightning rods and has chosen RuPaul. While you probably couldn't consider him an expert in transgender life, I dare say that he's probably had more contact with that part of the LGBT community than most of us. The fact is that people respond differently to celebrities than regular folk.

[Sara Jessica]

RuPaul is gay...

RuPaul is gay????? :eek: Who knew? ;)

[flatlander_48]

RuPaul is gay????? :eek: Who knew? ;)

As opposed to a crossdresser who later discovered that he was gay. It's all a matter of chronology...