WHY Tell?

[LeaP]

TS responders only, please.

The "when to tell your date" thread is interesting in its own right, but makes me wonder about the unstated behind many responses - WHY tell?

Please note that I am not asking about safety. I'm asking why you feel you should tell.

Here's why I ask: Because try as I might, I cannot quite get past thinking that, whatever other justifications might be tossed into the mix (legitimate or not), there is still a validation of prejudice. This seems to be the case even with the noblest and best of intentions, such as a full sharing of one's self with a potential partner before committing to a relationship.

That people feel compelled to tell is, well, telling. It seems to belie a 100% commitment to the notion of "correcting a birth defect." I would not necessarily expect intersexed or CAIS people to disclose their birth condition, for example, although I regard them as variations on a theme with the plight of transsexuals.

So, is it a validation of the other person's prejudice? Is it a lingering recognition of a meaningful difference you see in yourself?

[Barbara Ella]

I guess we all enter into any level of relationship with expectations. For some it will rise to a prejudice, for others not as cruel, but an expectation is an important emotional factor, that can override behavior for certain individuals. If someone can appreciate a TS for what they are, it is good to know that up front so expectations can be measured and equalized. If someone can get to know a TS and develop a relationship without knowing, or going far enough to know, that is what one would always hope for. A rare enough occurrence for two cis gendered individuals to find. I am speaking only for TS who have not had GRS. If you have had surgery, and made the transition to woman in appearance as well as mind, you are a woman and if your life can let you remain that way without old stories complicating the situation, you are a woman and their is nothing to tell up front. It is your comfort level in your own skin that controls.

Just some opinions.

Barbara

[Kaitlyn Michele]

this is specifically about relationships right??
for the record i've never told anyone that i didn't have to...only for legal reasons...its really bobody's business for the most part...
i
've never got to that serious moment with someone...i can also assure you it won't feel good when i do, and i'll feel that its unfair..but it is what it is..

anyway..
i don't think people are validating prejudice
...its an acceptance of reality..its an acceptance that there is another person in the equation and there is no doubt the other person will have a feeling about this..
its just the way it is..i lived my lie for many years...no more lying...i'm not saying trumpet this around...
except for very very very (3 very's) few people, you can't hide it forever...it will be discovered that at some point in your life you lived as a male, and had male gentitalia..perhaps the young young girls have a huge advantage here but even then at some point he is going to have to hear that his love cannot have children...is that a time to lie about why?? i can't answer that...

The simple fact that other persons reaction will include deep feelings about it requires an acknowledgement of the importance of the disclosure...how can you have a deep meaningful loving relationship with someone, invest your heart into someone and not share your past openly and honestly?

even those folks that have no hangup about this may feel betrayed and disappointed that you didn't tell them sooner, that you kept something important from them....we can't just say its not important and therefore its not important.....

in my opinion..that's the issue...thats why its not playing into it a problem by sharing your past....

i don't find it constructive to view this disclosure and invalidating to me..its just a part of building a special relationship with another person..its surely a bigger challenge than a cisgender person has but that's life..
it just doesnt matter that its unfair..
put another way, how can we say that something so fricking important to us that we risk everything to transition is not going to be important to someone else?? its not about invalidation of us or validation of prejudice..its about the hands we were dealt..
its a practical decision, not anything more..

[LeaP]

this is specifically about relationships right??
...
i don't find it constructive to view this disclosure and invalidating to me..its just a part of building a special relationship with another person..its surely a bigger challenge than a cisgender person has but that's life..
it just doesnt matter that its unfair..
put another way, how can we say that something so fricking important to us that we risk everything to transition is not going to be important to someone else?? its not about invalidation of us or validation of prejudice..its about the hands we were dealt..
its a practical decision, not anything more..

Yes, it is specifically about relationships. Thanks for the clarification question.

The reason I see it as addressing, or validating prejudice is that the disclosure serves no purpose other than to give the potential partner the chance to back out on the basis that they cannot see you as a real woman. One might say what about bearing children? Well, many natal women can't bear children. What if they find out some other way, like genetic testing for another purpose later on, for example? It could happen. Why couldn't the response be indifference as to significance?

I don't doubt that there is a practical aspect, Kaitlyn, but the practicality of it still boils down to the same thing – the prejudice of the audience. I have a hard time seeing that as anything but a variation on accepting discrimination because one must accept discrimination.

You mention importance. It was important to you to transition. To be the woman you are. It's important to those who would reject you, because they want a "real" woman. Granted, you don't want them anyway. But I don't see how the world is going to change unless people start insisting they are what they are, in any and all circumstances.

Should I ever be in this circumstance, I too would feel compelled to disclose. But that would be just as you indicated – for practical reasons - not out of ethics or morality, which would be on the side of non-disclosure, I think.

Maybe we are more defined by our history than we would like.

[kellycan27]

For me... Non disclosure to a loved on would do more to invalidate me and the struggle that I went through early on. I also see non- disclosure ( in a relationship) as validating those who feel that we are doing something wrong.... We need to hide.
For me disclosure meant no hiding, no worrying about my past coming back and biting me in the ass, and knowing that my partner knows and and is okay with me and my past.
I am always puzzled when someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight choose to opine and second guess the motives of the ones who do. ... Just saying

[LeaP]

I am always puzzled when someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight choose to opine and second guess the motives of the ones who do. ... Just saying

I'm not questioning the motives of the TS involved at all. As I said, I'm more inclined toward the practical view as indicated in my last response. The problem really lies with the other person. That is, one might feel compelled to tell out of practical considerations, but that's not because their motives are bad. It's because they are dealing with reality. Not everyone is cut out to be, or even expected to be a hero or martyr, either. Were not all cut from the mold of Martin Luther King.

As for the "dog in the the fight" comment, I'm normally pretty sympathetic to that response. In this case, not so much. As one in the midst of coming to terms with a transition decision, I find myself immersed in such questions constantly. They are part of asking myself who and what I am, and how I would present myself to and in the world.

Plus, last time I checked, you were in a committed relationship, Kelly. From that perspective the dog maybe a little theoretical to you, too. Finally, although I was particularly interested in the perspective of post ops because of the "purity" of the scenario, the question itself is hardly limited to even transsexuals. I'm on hormones. Disclosable? People cross-dress. Disclosable? People in gender therapy. Disclosable?

[KellyJameson]

I think each person must evaluate their story,circumstances and values before they decide.

Some people are able to live reasonably successful lives measured by the success they have with marriage, intimacy and parenting until the proverbial straw that broke the camels back reaches a crisis point and they can no longer hold it together and their lives blow up.

This path is where they reacted to the gender dysphoria by going against themselves so built a life to suppress it until they no longer could.

I tried this many times but each time my brain became a pressure cooker and I would start to have increasing panic attacks and severe claustrophobia because the world I had built to fix myself was keeping me from myself so instead of one big life blow up I was having dozens of little ones.

Every time I stepped on a path that made others relate to me as a man I would experience some level of trauma experienced as "stress" so I built a life of avoidance.

I realize now being transsexual made be extremely secretive and I'm still private to an extreme but also craving a relationship where I can have complete transparency which I have never known with another.

No one has ever known me because I refused to know myself so to now live with my body and mind in alignment but without transparency takes me back to that time before I had the courage, understanding and wherewithal from a body that I could live through to be transparent.

My body kept me from knowing me because I could not experience me so understand me and kept me from knowing myself because others could not "see me" so I could not see myself and their seeing my body but not me prevented me from knowing myself even though I did but did'nt.

Being secretive not only from others but myself for survival prevented the experience of true intimacy with others and with myself as self.

I will always be private and secretive because it is instinctive but I also must recognize that if I want to experience intimacy as connection at least one time before I die than I must be willing to be completely candid about my journey if and when I meet that person who is worthy of this transparency.

There are many ways to suppress the truth inside us by what we do inside our minds and out in our world and the terror of gender dysphoria certainly is something that the mind would naturally want to suppress but it is not only the body but this suppressing action of truth that harms us.

I want to be free from all the constraints that have bound me, not just the physical ones.

My life has been a lie that nature created that I have undone so I see the danger in lies.

This does not mean that I will not lie or continue to be private and secretive but there may come a time when I meet someone and if I build a relationship on lies than I will be right back to living in that body that imprisoned me but know it will be my own lies and not the lie of nature that now prevents intimacy.

My life has made me hate lying and I have lived the paradoxical experience of hating falsehood while immersing myself in it for physical and psychological survival.

Being transsexual has radicalized my relationship to the concept of truth.

[melissaK]

I was going to stay out of this thread, im not transitioned and i thought thats who LeaP wanted opinions from. But I dunno who qualifies for dog in this fight status. Does having breasts and being somewhere in some kind of transition qualify me? I'm in the middle of all kinds of relationships. Who do I tell or not tell?

I revealed my past such as it is to my kids. If you want to get down to it LeaP, I didn't have to. Same with my wife - no need to tell her anything at all. ::wince::

I think there a logic issue afoot. You can't measure "invalidation" if there's no disclosure (verbal or physical); without disclosure, there can be no invalidating comment or action. Once there is disclosure, its up to the audience to decide their response, and it may or may not fit LeaP's definitions of invalidation.

It's a red herring to argue our making a disclosure of nuetral past facts ratifies invalidation as there can be none at all until after disclosure, and there still may be none after disclosure. The audience is who assigns significance to the facts. Not us.

It's a logic error to equate disclosing neutral past facts with us assigning a negative significance to the facts.

I've led a busy full life and a lot of interesting things have happened to me, and I've done a lot of interesting things. By themselves they are nuetral facts. When I share them with others sometimes they laugh, or look empathetic, or ignore me, or one up me! But it is they the audience who decides the significance of my nuetral facts.

So I told my wife because she's my wife and we tell each other everything. It's the basis of a relationship between two insecure people such as ourselves. Learning of a non disclosure triggers insecurities in us.

I told my kids for similar reasons. You tell one and not another and its Tommy and Dickie Smothers doing the Mom always liked you best schtick.

And I told because I'm tired of it being a big deal. I want my gender issues to not be big deal. If they're there on the table everyone will get bored of it and not care. And that LeaP will I think be the best validation.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

lea i understand your thought but you are asserting that the sole purpose of disclosure is to give the guy a chance to bail and that's a flawed assertion..that seems central to your thought...

as kelly says, the purpose includes sharing yourself fully...and disclosure can be a way of staking out your ground as real...NOT disclosing is invalidating...

you are not really internally processing what its like to be sitting on a couch with someone and feel like there is a 48 , 38, 28 or even 18 year lie sitting on top of both of you...

certainly the whole invalidation thing is real...we are marginalized and disbelieved...but telling somebody about your past doesn't play into that ..it just reflects the truth of your life.....

[Badtranny]

I don't think I can improve on Kaitlyn's comments but that won't stop me from adding some ;-)

No more secrets for me. My past is just that, in the PAST but its not a secret and it will never be because this transition was about honesty before it was about a gender change. I don't announce it, but I don't deny it either.

Any new boyfriend will know who I am long before he wins my cash & prizes.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Everyone knows my feelings from the original post that Lea started this post from. My re4ply to the OP is based solely on being post-op.

The thing I find ill advised is that we owe the other party in whatever relationship it may be the knowledge that we once had a penis.

If we are talking about love, you want the other person to love you the person you are today. Not the person you no longer are from some time in your past. If the person you are with does not love your personality, your mind, wit, heart, soul, and body then why would anyone want to be in that kind if relationship to begin with not to mention that one "must" confess each and everything about their past.

Plus if you were to tell the other party that you has a penis and they stay, how would you ever know if they are staying with you because of your TS status - not the woman status you are today.

I follow the old phase, "words spoken can never be taken back."

Does a woman who has had breast implants tell?
Does a guy who has a small penis tell?
Both of those two examples will be found out when the relationship becomes intimate with no words spoken.

So does the man ditch the woman because she never told him she has had implants?
Does the woman ditch the man with the small pens?
In both cases I would claim that if love is there the answer would be no?

Would either the man or woman feel they were lied to or that the other party kept that a secret? Would either party feel
taken" by falling in love with the other pre-sex?

Lets make the issue more complicated:

Would you be required to tell your partner that you once had cancer?
You were raped and had a child from the rapist that you gave up for adoption?
As a birth girl you had to have your genitalia operated on as a small child because they were deformed or your urethra opening was missing and you had to have emergency surgery?
You ONCE had a venereal disease that no longer exist?
As a woman in you 20's you were a lesbian but now heterosexual?
You were born with 3 or more breasts and all but two were surgically removed?
You were born with a cleft lip that was corrected by plastic surgery?
You were born inter-sexed and the doctors decided the sex on your birth certificate but you have since had corrective surgery to your desired self-aliened gender?

DON'T be so "saintly" as EVERY human being on this earth has secrets they don't share with anyone including their spouse. We ALL have skeletons in our closets that we do not share with anyone else.

My stand remains the same. This is my body, my past, my decision and I choose NOT to disclose the fact that I was born with a birth defect. I am not living in the past - it is forever gone. I ONLY live in the present and hope I am granted a future but the undeniable truth is that I am a woman TODAY and every day I am granted. So I live my life as the woman I have always been not a freak of nature (sorry if that offends - those are my words and thoughts alone).

I feel no guilt, no lie, no dishonesty by not telling a partner that I once had a penis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kellycan27]

The question was "why tell"? I answered the question as someone who did disclose... Is this not having a dog in the fight. Who else would be better suited to answer than someone who has the t-shirt? I might not be facing the issue now, but I did and answered the question as asked. Who are you asking? Who can honestly say if they they haven't the experience to fall back on?

[stefan37]

" I'm on hormones. Disclosable? People cross-dress. Disclosable? People in gender therapy. Disclosable? "

To the general public I would say no disclosure unless they were very close. Certainly to someone you are intimate with you have ot disclose to have any meaningful chance to remain in such relationship. I am not yet in a position where I have to worry about this particular dilemma, but I know if I were to get involved with someone on an intimate level I would have to disclose to ease my mind they would want to be with me if it ever came up. I would think being preop there would be no choice to disclose. If one were post op then the decision to disclose or not would be a personal decision. It is interesting to note that some that are post op but not in a committed relationship say they would or do disclose when the relationship gets serious, but some post op that are already in a committed relationships say they would not disclose, but their partners do know.
In the end it is a personal decision one must make and then have to deal with the consequences. I would like to believe that gender or the changing of gender should make no difference, but the fact remains that in most peoples minds it is a big deal.
Just look at the response to women married to husbands that disclose they crossdress after a period of time of marriage.

[LeaP]

lea i understand your thought but you are asserting that the sole purpose of disclosure is to give the guy a chance to bail and that's a flawed assertion..that seems central to your thought...



It's not the sole purpose, Kaitlyn. There are many practical reasons to disclose. And, as I said, I can't imagine not disclosing myself. And, in fact I would disclose my gender and hormone status, too, should I not transition. (Kelly – I hope you realize that my response to the "dog in a fight" comment was rhetorical. It was to show that we both have dogs in the fight, though of a slightly different sort. Just as I disclosed what was going on to my wife as soon as I figured out what was going on! Of course I value your experience.)

But I'm not entirely buying a line about fully sharing yourself as a sole reason, either. That's in play, but it's only half the equation. And the fact that every last person who talks about disclosure stresses the need of disclosing before things go too far largely removes it from that context besides. The desire and need to fully share oneself does not invalidate the fact that people are playing to the discrimination possibility also. I mean, Christ, talk about practicalities! When person after person says their batting average post-disclosure is close to zero!

[Kathryn Martin]

I so don't want to wade into this discussion but of course once again I cannot keep my mouth shut. The question was: "Why tell?" the context is validation or invalidation of ourselves in the telling and to what extent it is important to disclose medical background to potential partners for a long term or short term relationship. Opinions have been wildly divergent but some serious and important issues have been raised. With the exception of Kelly and Kaitelyn (and I) I wonder how many have actually found themselves in a situation where serious consideration of disclosure is required.

The real questions in my view that you have to ask yourself when you are confronted with this situation in fact, are three: a. are you a woman?; b. is the quality of the relationship you are seeking such, that disclosure is required?; and c. do you pass naked.

The reason I raise the first question is that in some small fashion many believe that they are not women. It is the premise on which people disclose things that otherwise are no ones business to alleviate the guilt of deceit. If you truly believe that there is something the matter with you seeking happiness in the arms of man in any way shape or form (such as internalized homophobia or transphobia) or in his perception of you then you must obviously disclose. In doing so you may easily feed into his homophobia and he will run to the hills. Once you tell though that genie will never go back in the bottle and life will be seasoned with all manner of justifying remarks (such she really is a woman or my favorite "frankly, sweetheart, I don't give a damn"). But that reminder will always accompany. And in this way it will always be an assault on your self esteem. Sometimes you might even have the odd fella who want to try the ride.

On the second question the quality of the relationship is crucial. A one night stand is not important enough to even consider telling. If someone falls in love with you and wants to commit to a long term relationship then they are entitled to know about certain medical conditions and decision. For me I want to be certain of his commitment before I say anything.

Number three is the real kicker. I am going to leave it at that. Consider both that women come in all shapes and sizes and look in the mirror with realism. And when you are done, ask yourself if you removed the ass hair (sorry this is crude but believe me the devil is in the details). Because if you cannot pass naked then what options do you have.

Every time you tell you provide an opportunity to invalidate yourself through another and invalidate yourself by your own action. It just is what it is.

I don't need to be recognized in my struggle. In fact I don't give a rat's ass anymore about my struggle, it has zero value for anyone including me. I do not even for one moment draw validation from having "made it". Once you are whole all of that becomes a fading memory and millstone around your neck because it prevents you from making peace.

[kellycan27]

Yes I am a woman and I will stand naked along side any GG... But does the way I feel or see myself trump the rights of another to choose whether or not they see it the same way?
Right wrong or indifferent.... I believe that people,should have the right to choose their partner according to their own personal beliefs.

[Kathryn Martin]

I don't disagree with you Kelly.

[melissaK]

You all write the best threads. :) It's a terrific topic, with room for opinions and differences.

I just got a big litigation discovery project done, brewed a cup of coffee and read this thread since my last post. It was a wonderful break. Then opposing counsel called and gave me an extension on a deadline that was going to have me here another four hours - so you are all good luck charms too!!

[LeaP]

You all write the best threads. :) It's a terrific topic, with room for opinions and differences.



I'm in awe of the responses. Much more came out than I would have ever expected, in less than a couple of dozen responses, with strong arguments and no fights. I'm inclined to let the responses stand on their own considerable merits without adding.

Thanks. Lots to think about.

[Michelle.M]

For me... Non disclosure to a loved on would do more to invalidate me and the struggle that I went through early on. I also see non- disclosure ( in a relationship) as validating those who feel that we are doing something wrong.... We need to hide.

THAT is an interesting perspective and one that I don't recall hearing from anyone before. I can see where my non-disclosure would actually have the effect of invalidating any claims of love and respect I have for my partner and also have the effect of me invalidating my own identity as well.


For me disclosure meant no hiding, no worrying about my past coming back and biting me in the ass, and knowing that my partner knows and and is okay with me and my past.

I agree. It's been that way with my boyfriend and me from the beginning and has been a very liberating thing for me, knowing that I simply do not have to worry about any overlooked details.


I am always puzzled when someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight choose to opine and second guess the motives of the ones who do. ... Just saying

Yeah, I was going to begin with that. There never seems to be a shortage of others who are oh, so eager to tell you how to live your life, what you should say and when and to whom and why.

Disclosure or non-disclosure is a very personal thing, it's based on individual values and priorities and I have found it may even vary from one potential partner to the other. Those are decisions to be made on the ground and with the best information available at the moment.


No more secrets for me. My past is just that, in the PAST but its not a secret and it will never be because this transition was about honesty before it was about a gender change. I don't announce it, but I don't deny it either.

Same here. It's not public knowledge but it's not a state secret, either. I spent nearly 50 years hiding the real me, and now that I'm free of that yoke of bondage I ain't never goin' back!


The thing I find ill advised is that we owe the other party in whatever relationship it may be the knowledge that we once had a penis.

It's not ill-advised at all. If someone believes that honesty is the best policy then how is that a bad idea?

And didn't you transition within the context of your marriage? Seems to me that you might be one of the ones that Kelly was referring to who don't have a dog in the fight. For you, this issue is wholly academic and has no real life application.

Or am I mistaken about your relationship status?


If we are talking about love, you want the other person to love you the person you are today. Not the person you no longer are from some time in your past.

And disclosure does not negate that. My gender history does not define me yet it is part of what makes me the person I am today. Disclosing that I experienced a significant transitional process in my life does not magically transport my partner to some time and place where he has to deal with the person I once pretended to be.


If the person you are with does not love your personality, your mind, wit, heart, soul, and body then why would anyone want to be in that kind if relationship to begin with not to mention that one "must" confess each and everything about their past.

We disclose issues about our past all the time. What is past is prologue, and while my surgical history does not define me the road I travelled to get here to my present state of being does.


Plus if you were to tell the other party that you has a penis and they stay, how would you ever know if they are staying with you because of your TS status - not the woman status you are today.

I would know that by paying attention to the development of our relationship and by seeking to fully understand the character of the man I'd be hoping to make a life with. That's how these things are revealed.



Does a woman who has had breast implants tell?
Does a guy who has a small penis tell?

Um, not to sound indelicate but these two things are frequently self-evident. And since they're not exactly secrets that can be contained by just being quiet (at least not for long) this may not be the analogy that would bolster your position.


So does the man ditch the woman because she never told him she has had implants?
Does the woman ditch the man with the small pens?

Sadly, this happens. And if I am so unfortunate as to meet such a jerk I'd like to be able to smoke him out as early as possible so I can send him on his way and then spend my time developing a quality relationship with a decent person who is not afflicted with that character deficiency.



Would you be required to tell your partner that you once had cancer?
You were raped and had a child from the rapist that you gave up for adoption?
As a birth girl you had to have your genitalia operated on as a small child because they were deformed or your urethra opening was missing and you had to have emergency surgery?
You ONCE had a venereal disease that no longer exist?
As a woman in you 20's you were a lesbian but now heterosexual?
You were born with 3 or more breasts and all but two were surgically removed?
You were born with a cleft lip that was corrected by plastic surgery?
You were born inter-sexed and the doctors decided the sex on your birth certificate but you have since had corrective surgery to your desired self-aliened gender?

Nobody is REQUIRED to say anything to anyone! And nobody should require any other person to do so. It's an individual choice.

My individual choice is that I will disclose the following:

- Anything from my past that might have an impact on my partner, now or in the future (ie: unresolved legal actions, bequests of personal property I intend to make to heirs, longstanding health issues)

- Anything from my past that by itself isn't significant but should I choose to conceal it would look like some sort of "dirty secret" and would thus reflect poorly on my character (ie: a previously undisclosed marriage, a child from another relationship, my gender history)


DON'T be so "saintly" as EVERY human being on this earth has secrets they don't share with anyone including their spouse. We ALL have skeletons in our closets that we do not share with anyone else.

True, but those with whom we have significant relationships (in this case someone who might possibly be my future spouse) do not fall into the category of "anyone else". Someone who has worked so hard to develop a deep and loving relationship with me and has become that much a part of me has earned his stripes and really deserves to know where the bodies are buried, especially since I know he'll keep those things held to the same level of confidence as I do. If that were not the case he wouldn't be Mr Right.


I am not living in the past - it is forever gone. I ONLY live in the present and hope I am granted a future but the undeniable truth is that I am a woman TODAY and every day I am granted.

Well said! But that does not run counter to the idea that the decision to disclose is a good policy, nor does disclosure equal "living in the past". It's simply one's reality, and how much of that reality they choose to share with a partner is their business.

For me, disclosure has proven to be an essential building block of trust and intimacy in my relationship with my boyfriend. And yes, he and I call that honesty. And just as honest disclosure does not invalidate someone wholly living in the present and in their true gender, neither does failure to disclose make one dishonest. It's simply a personal decision, and thus exempt from harsh criticism.


My stand remains the same. This is my body, my past, my decision and I choose NOT to disclose the fact that I was born with a birth defect. . . . I feel no guilt, no lie, no dishonesty by not telling a partner that I once had a penis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And this is your choice and that is to be honored and respected by everyone.

[Serana]

Before I say anything, I'd say that I'm on of those that doesn't have a dog in the fight, as my love interest has known me as I have transitioned, from the start and before.

I'm personally of the opinion, if my interests were to ever shift to someone who didn't know (lol), then I'd feel I shouldn't have to tell them. Just because you keep a deep dark secret, doesn't stop you form being able to love someone and care for them wholly/completely. I can respect someone, but I can also respect my own wishes and needs to want to keep it an unknown part about me.

I've always pondered it, and just gone with the "I can't have children" infertility excuse on the pre-text I ever came to be in a relationship with someone who didn't know. I don't see why someone should have to be aware that I was "different" at one other point in my life, considering the whole reason we transition is to change our future, and to live our lives WITHOUT something following us around like a lead brick. Why do through all the trouble of going through surgeries (cosmetic or major (aka SRS etc)) if you're just going to have to tell your lover that you once had the same thing that you had removed? Isn't that the same as just saying "well what's the point in having the surgery"?

On the flipside; yes, I can understand to some it's important to know about the ones they love, and to understand all their past and such, so in some cases, there is a reason to tell. Most of the outside world isn't -that- scary, and most people aren't -that- judging of someone based on past; but factors in that can include your own personality, who you are, and who you spend time with/groups you are part of.

Suffice to say, if you were around someone who was straight out of Jersey Shore, you probably don't want to say anything.
But if you're around people who are open and accepting, then it's not such a bad thing.

So why tell people? The only real reason I can think of to tell someone, is if they knew you before and you want to keep their friendship. If you can pass without someone knowing what you are/were, then why the hell should it be their business? You are what you are now, now what you used to be.

I do agree with Traci on what she says also, you shouldn't have to tell someone if you beat cancer 15 years ago or something, so why should you have to tell someone if you used to have the opposite genitalia? It just isn't right, and it's something that ends up only increasing the segregation that transexuals face, that they shouldn't have to. That, and social pressure of the world making you feel like you have to tell.

Personally, I'd say no, you don't have to tell. It's your business, your life. It's what you tell people at your discretion, not theirs.

[Jorja]

Whether or not to disclose your past is a personal decision. When I met the man that I married and things turned more serious I felt he had the right to know everything about me. While I did not feel it was a moral obligation to tell him, I felt that if there was going to be a marriage, trust was going to be a major part of that marriage. I have some very close friends that only know me as a female. I have not and will not ever tell them. They do not need to know in my opinion.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

the more i read the more it boils down to this...

until you've sat there and looked into someone's eyes...somebody that cares about you...somebody you care about..you actually cannot understand.

.....all opinions are valid but from someone who has been there, i don't believe you actually know what you would do...you can only make up guesses based on preconceptions and assumptions..you have to be there looking into somebodys eyes to understand..

its not about validation as mentioned in another thread...its not about morality or ethics...its about sharing your life with someone...its about one person and one other person connecting...
even if it is invalidating in some way, even if it causes problems and gives the other person an excuse to break it off...it is what is ...there is nothing wrong with being who you are...

put another way, if you think its ok to not tell me about something so life changing (Much more than cancer, or a drunk driving arrest or an abortion or fillintheblank) in your past, i don't want to be with you...i can't trust you.

[Traci Elizabeth]

In my opinion, there is no right or wrong answer here. We each live our lives as we see fit. The notion that some of you make that NOT telling is living a lie or prohibits one from having an honest and trusting relationship is just pure hogwash. No one, myself included, can tell any one of us that we are not trustworthy or honest if we choose not to disclose. I see both sides and each of us will make our own decisions based on what is best for us.

I though this tread was about the individual way each of us would handle the "I had a penis at one time" question; not putting into question the morality or righteousness of those who have different views on the subject.

What I do see is a deep divide here and lack of respect for differing opinions.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

no one is talking about morality...i specifically said that for crying out loud....if people cant see this as a trust issue then i agree there is room for disagreement...

i did bring up how easy it is for people to preach about "what they think" when they are not in the situation, were never in the situation and they never expect to be in the situation..for some this is just a theory, others are living it..

and this is something you cannot appreciate unless you are in the middle of it......it just isn't...its not about lack of respect..its about a lack of meaningful information...

[Serana]

I fail to see how someone not in the situation isn't able to provide some insight.

I very much agree with Traci's thought of not having to tell someone, if you don't want to, you shouldn't have to.

It's hardly even a trust issue. This is a "personal issue" that people will come across in their future life. I mean, why would you want to tell someone something like that? It just doesn't seem like that means you'll ever help yourself with getting over the difficulties that being transexual brings, let alone the social issues.

If you're willing to tell someone something that is a completely different curve ball to other things, then go ahead. Besides, we're all entitled to opinions. And if I was in love with someone, and trusted them 100%, and they trusted me 100%, then why should I tell them? Why purposely rock the boat with a stone that doesn't need throwing in the first place?

Ignorance is bliss, as my dearest friend says~. I personally don't feel I should tell, because it's a part of my life that, when it's over, it's over. Why look back at dark history that you don't want to bring up? It's not like I'd go around telling someone I loved if I was abused as a child, unless the topic came up. If the topic/wonder of my birth gender came up, then I might consider telling them. Until that point, it's my own business, and my own part of my life.

And if you don't think that people outside of this situation can't appreciate it, then I don't see why it's a point worth discussing on an 'open' forum with other TS and such, when we all have different, conflicting personal opinions. Perhaps it's something better left to the discretion of each person when that time comes, don't you think? :)

[kellycan27]

serana

But yet in dating thread you said "If I wanted to go around dating guys/girls/whatever that weren't aware I was trans before the date, then I'd be certainly be prepared to tell them either before the date, or after the first date "
I am a bit confused... Relationships generally start with dating. You agree with Tracie saying that there is no need to disclose, then you say you would disclose if someone wasn't aware... Even before the first date. And here you say that you don't feel that you have to disclose.

[arbon]

Its interesting the contrast in responses between those who have life experience with the issue, and some of those that don't.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Picky, picky, picky! There is ALWAYS someone trying to prove someone else wrong! Such is life but I have better things to do than to point out an alleged discrepancy in one's point of view. Are we not allowed to change our opinions or interpret different threats differently ?????????????????????

Geez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Serana]

serana

But yet in dating thread you said "If I wanted to go around dating guys/girls/whatever that weren't aware I was trans before the date, then I'd be certainly be prepared to tell them either before the date, or after the first date "
I am a bit confused... Relationships generally start with dating. You agree with Tracie saying that there is no need to disclose, then you say you would disclose if someone wasn't aware... Even before the first date. And here you say that you don't feel that you have to disclose.

I'm sorry, I didn't clarify that I was looking at the hypothetical side of when I'm post-op, and not before that. If I was in a relationship with them when I was pre-op, then certainly, yes, they would indeed know about it.

But if it was a relationship that came about from when I was post-op, then no, I don't think they'd need to know. Unless they suddenly said they wanted kids with me or something, then it's kind of a given that you need to explain lol.

If you read the rest of my post from the thread also, you'll have noticed that I said I didn't have a dog in tahgt fight so much because I have someone that I care for deeply already, and if that fails, I would not look at dating until I was post-op. So therefore, I'd either be in a relationship with someone who already knew, or I'd be in a relationship with someone who didn't know and didn't need telling.

I guess it also comes down to how well you interpret your ability to pass. If you pass very well in most places, or all places, like myself, then there really is no need to tell, IMO. It's like rocking a boat that doesn't need rocking.

On teh flip side, I can think of times I would definitely find a reason to need to tell them. But until you know a person, and it's still early days in a relationship (3~5 years is still early days right?) then you have more than enough time to decide if they are the kind of person who would take it well or not. Then it's either do or don't, and that's what it boils down to. I've had the experience of judging when to tell friends, and had the experience of someone going around "oh she's a tranny", and having to explain. So I think I could piece together a suitable feeling for what I would do..

But being young also, I'm probably too blinded by love to think about all those important adult things like "should I tell them" :D

[kellycan27]

I'm sorry, I didn't clarify that I was looking at the hypothetical side of when I'm post-op, and not before that. If I was in a relationship with them when I was pre-op, then certainly, yes, they would indeed know about it.

But if it was a relationship that came about from when I was post-op, then no, I don't think they'd need to know. Unless they suddenly said they wanted kids with me or something, then it's kind of a given that you need to explain lol.

Asked and answered .. Thank you


Picky, picky, picky! There is ALWAYS someone trying to prove someone else wrong! Such is life but I have better things to do than to point out an alleged discrepancy in one's point of view. Are we not allowed to change our opinions or interpret different threats differently ?????????????????????

Geez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unlike your opinion I was interested in Serana's and was only asking for clarity.. Which she gave without getting her panties in a bunch.

[Serana]

I keep them hung up in the wardrobe for special occasions. :P

[kellycan27]

Keeps them from getting wrinkled...

[Michelle.M]

I fail to see how someone not in the situation isn't able to provide some insight.

Oh, I'm sure they can. What they cannot provide is an opinion based on actual real life experience. The first person merely has an idea, but the second has credibility.


And if you don't think that people outside of this situation can't appreciate it, then I don't see why it's a point worth discussing on an 'open' forum with other TS and such, when we all have different, conflicting personal opinions.

You're joking, right?

I see from your location that you live in the UK. I've been to London a couple of times and I think I'm pretty familiar with the place, but I wouldn't dream of pretending that I actually know anything at all about what life is like in England or in any other part of the UK. You, having real life experience living in the UK have practical insight and are a credible authority on the topic.

I am not saying at all that anyone who has not been in a relationship where one's gender history was previously unknown doesn't have an opinion or even some helpful insight. But, as we say, for them it's all "book learnin'". Those who've actually had to deal with that issue head-on are the ones who can credibly discuss the pros and cons of one course of action over another.

THAT is the point of having these discussions in an open forum. We share ideas and experiences. The ideas of those who've never had to wrestle with this issue have merit, but the experiences of those who have are much more useful.

[Serana]

Touché Michelle,

I can appreciate that, and I suppose that little thought had skipped away from my brain at the time. Perhaps I worded it wrong, but either way I do agree with what you said, and you said pretty much perfectly what should have been said lol. I agree with you completely on that matter. I do agree that real life experience counts for a lot, considering that it's something named in everyone's transition here that we can all appreciate and respect what those three words mean :)

Thanks for setting the record straight on that one.

Oh yeah, for the record, North England sucks :P

[Rianna Humble]

This thread is just running around in circles with some posts coming very close to infringing the rules on respect and tolerance of other members' right to express their opinions.

It stops here.

Rianna Humble
Moderator, Transsexual Forums