Crossdressing & ID/Driver's License

[katiekat]

So, one thing that's been keeping me from going out en femme is a fear of getting asked for my ID (i.e bouncer, cops, etc.). I assume for most TG friendly bars, the bouncers won't give you a hard time. But what about cops? Can they charge you for fraud or something like that for looking waaayyy different than your driver's license?

[nhlighthouse]

I think they can only charge you with Fraud if your make-up isn't put on correctly!! Make sure you show some LEG!

[AimeeG]

I've bee pulled over twice "en femme", and didn't have any issues...be respectful.

Received warnings for both...always wondered why, but if I'm getting out of a ticket, just letting it go.

Been asked for my ID when purchasing with a credit card and never had any issues either.

[Nicole Brown]

That is a really hard question not knowing where you live, the laws are different in nearly each state. I live in New Jersey and we are lucky to have a fairly strong set of laws here which protect us from mistreatment for the most part.

I always have a carry letter in my possession which indicates that I am under the treatment of a licensed therapist, that I have been diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria and that this explains the difference in my ID and my presentation. Over the years I have traveled extensively, prior to my retirement, and visited many states. On several occasions when stopped by the police, either nothing was mentioned about my appearance or the carry letter was sufficient to resolve the issues.

[JackieInPA]

Women drastically alter their appearance all the time, changing hair colors and styles and they arent required to constantly upgrade their photos.

[Lorileah]

It cannot be fraud unless you are trying to deceive someone. So if you told the bouncer you were the owner of the bar and that you would have him fired, that is fraud. If you hand them an ID that says you are female and you aren't (by birth or by law) THAT is fraud.

As far as IDs go. The ID is you, they want to know what age you are at the bar. They don't care what sex you are or if you live in a nice part of town or if you are an organ donor. The birth date is all they see.

As far as police. There is not a law in the US or Canada or to the best of my knowledge any industrial nation, against wearing certain clothes as long as you are not breaking decency statutes. If (and that is a big if...the odds are the same if you are in drab) you are stopped you stay calm, you hand them your ID, your registration and insurance card. You be polite, you apologize if you did something wrong and you accept whatever they offer. Just like you would in real life.

Cross dressing in North America and Europe is not illegal. You don't have to explain your lifestyle or preference to anyone

[AllieSF]

I wouldn't worry about it unless you pass 100%, and if you do, I sure do want to meet you! Why complicate your life when you will probably be read anyway. Just hand them your ID when requested, look them in the face and smile. If they make a comment, just say you don't like that pic either and will probably change it the next time you renew your license. Believe me, they really don't care and do want to verify your age, which requires a legal and valid ID, even more so with the police.

[Beverley Sims]

Go out without fear and conduct yourself appropriately and there is no bother.

[joank]

I was making a purchase at Sallys Beauty Supply (from a new sales associate). I plopped out my DL (male) and said I was doing my hair differently. No comment and purchase made. I 've had to do this a number of times with no issues.

[katiekat]

Thanks for the response everyone!


I always have a carry letter in my possession which indicates that I am under the treatment of a licensed therapist, that I have been diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria and that this explains the difference in my ID and my presentation.
Not at this stage yet. Don't think I'd worry so much if I had such letter


I wouldn't worry about it unless you pass 100%, and if you do, I sure do want to meet you!
That's what I'm trying =P. I'm blessed with a 'female' body type. Just need to work on make up & voice.

[Rachelakld]

I just show my normal license, besides, A) they probably had a crap day and you have just made it interesting in a nice way, B) they have seen it a million times, C) everyone is allowed to go to a crossdressing party

If you run from the police or give them any grief, your pursuit might end up on TV

[windycissy]

I always carry my real ID when I drive in case I have to show it to the cops, but for bouncers, bartenders, etc I have a beautiful fake ID which I forged with my female name and picture, so easy now with a bit of computer skills

[Eryn]

I was making a purchase at Sallys Beauty Supply (from a new sales associate). I plopped out my DL (male) and said I was doing my hair differently. No comment and purchase made. I 've had to do this a number of times with no issues.

I go to Sally, but I like to go to my local store which is in Eryn's no-fly zone, so I have a Sally's card in my boy name. :) Never had an issue.

When dressed, I carry my male ID, but only have had to show it at a TG event where they were checking every ID as it was for 21-up. I felt flattered that someone would check my ID for age!

As others have said, fraud is only when you intend to deceive someone, so showing your male ID to an officer should not be an issue. For shopping I carry cash, as nobody has ever asked me to see ID with the green stuff!

[katiekat]

When dressed, I carry my male ID, but only have had to show it at a TG event where they were checking every ID as it was for 21-up. I felt flattered that someone would check my ID for age!

Does that mean you have a female ID? How did you get it? Yup I'm one of those kids who never had fakes =P

[Chickhe]

I wouldn't carry a fake government ID... its illegal in many places. I've gone to a bar before and the bouncer was actually confused because they could not see me in the ID's image etc. but speak in your normal male voice and they will figure it out...just be honest and joke with them a little to show you are a good person. They are just their to make sure everyone is safe and legal...doing their job and you want them to back you up if you ever need their help.

[I Am Paula]

If there is any chance that whatever you have done could land you in jail overnight, no matter how you usually describe yourself, tell them you are transexual. A guy in a dress will get tossed in with the riffraff, perhaps exposing you to danger. Every state will allow a transexual prisoner segregated quarters. Much safer. A little white lie could save your ass. Literally.
As for ID. Just use your male documents. The moments embarassment is worth it.-Celeste

[Lorileah]

I have a beautiful fake ID which I forged with my female name and picture, so easy now with a bit of computer skills

I hope you say that in jest...because that IS fraud. Here in Colorado if you present a false ID you will lose the ID and you can be arrested, yes even at bars.

[ThisIsBob]

If there is any chance that whatever you have done could land you in jail overnight, no matter how you usually describe yourself, tell them you are transexual. A guy in a dress will get tossed in with the riffraff, perhaps exposing you to danger. Every state will allow a transexual prisoner segregated quarters. Much safer. A little white lie could save your ass. Literally.
As for ID. Just use your male documents. The moments embarassment is worth it.-Celeste
I'd be (pleasantly) shocked to discover that all 50 states required segregated holding facilities for transgender folks... Especially if they required it of all local and county lock-ups as well.

[brandi.tgurl]

i've been pulled over in drag once. it was one of the most nerve-wracking, AND liberating experiences of my life. of course, i had to give my license and registration and insurance, all in my male persona. i had no idea what was about to happen. i was given a warning, and nothing even came of the ordeal. the officers were both more than friendly and very respectful. i probably gave them something out of the ordinary for that day, and i figure they have had to have seen a lot worse things than a boy in a dress. i've always wondered about presenting ID at bars and clubs, or when shopping. Typically, i shop with cash, or if i use my credit card I'm in drab, or use a self checkout.

[Rogina B]

If there is any chance that whatever you have done could land you in jail overnight, no matter how you usually describe yourself, tell them you are transexual. A guy in a dress will get tossed in with the riffraff, perhaps exposing you to danger. Every state will allow a transexual prisoner segregated quarters. Much safer. A little white lie could save your ass. Literally.
As for ID. Just use your male documents. The moments embarassment is worth it.-Celeste
I agree with this and there have been quite a few threads on all of this[ID,getting stopped,DL,etc] if you care to explore..one was just a few months back,I think.

[linda allen]

........... As far as police. There is not a law in the US or Canada or to the best of my knowledge any industrial nation, against wearing certain clothes as long as you are not breaking decency statutes. .......
At least in the past, there have been laws in many states against wearing masks. These relate to the KKK and other groups. They may or may not still be in effect in some areas.

Police officers can make it very difficult for someone if they want to. They can detain yo while they check for warrants, they can make you stand out in the rain, they can call for other officers just to embarass you.

Most will not, but you never know. Best thing to do is be quiet and respectfull, do what you're told, and don't ask "why".


As far as IDs go. The ID is you, they want to know what age you are at the bar. They don't care what sex you are or if you live in a nice part of town or if you are an organ donor. The birth date is all they see.


They want to know if you're old enough to be in the bar, but they also want to know that you are presenting your own ID, not someone else's. If you look vastly different from your ID photo, you may have a problem. Solution - Go somewhere else.


............ but for bouncers, bartenders, etc I have a beautiful fake ID which I forged with my female name and picture, so easy now with a bit of computer skills

Bad idea and it could get you into serious trouble. You say you wouldn't show it to the police, but what if they see it or find it? Having a fake ID makes it look like you're up to no good like cashing bad checks or using stolen credit cards.

I would get rid of the fake ID if I were you.

[DonniDarkness]

Just use your normal ID.

Ive shown my ID many times while out enfemme and never had any problems. Cops, Bouncers, Door guys at the bar, Cashiers.....Im respectful to them and they are respectful to me. If i am asked if the ID is Mine i say "Yes Im Transgender, Thats ME"

Fake ID is definitely a red flag to get you in trouble by authorities and is illegal everywhere. Honesty is our best policy.

-Donni-

[DonnaT]

In some states you can get an ID card with your fem picture on it.

In all states, remember to be polite, give them a legal ID, and always use your legal name. The only time you'll get into trouble is if you lie to the police. But there are probably some backwater, hick, towns with bad cops so you never know what will happen in them.

[Loni]

there is a way to get a valid state issued id/dl card with your fem photo on it if so wanted.

but for those who can not, one can have a "fake" id card as a photo id.
just it can not be a true "copy" of a state issued one. it does not need to state "NOT A STATE ISSUED ID CARD", can look just like said. and must be just different to not be a forgery. as in no fancy holograms. embedded strips and the back should not have any bar codes.
can be used for getting into a bar..if you are lucky to look that young, and for shopping with a cc in your fem name.

but is not a valid id for legal use ie: court. given to a leo, etc.

all i have read and even advice from a lawyer is think fraud. if you are planing on using to cheat another then there are other charges that they will charge you with, but the "fake" id will not even make it to court. but as long as the use is just for fem id you are golden.

as per law (at least in Ca) one can legally use any name in public, but in LEGAL maters one must use there proper given name that is on your ss card, birth cert, (pending you are not from hawaii and the governor has lock yours up some place), immigration records, (but some countries just do not have any records of who you are or that you even exist). some/most certified state issued papers.

then there is a barney fife.

.

[Cheryl T]

A few years ago my Tri-Ess group had the opportunity to have TG ID's made. It has a picture of me dressed and all the relative information that would match my DL and the statement that this is done for personal reasons with no intent to deceive.
I carry this with my license and if asked will give both to the officer. Of course, if you drive within the law there should be no reason to have to present ID, unless it's a DUI stop or something like that.

[Phoebe Reece]

In Georgia you can have a state issued ID card in addition to your state issued driver's license. Both are issued by the same agency and both are legal identification. They both will have identical information on them (name, address, birthday, etc.). But, they can have different photos. You just go to Drivers Services dressed femme to get your ID and you will have a legal ID with a photo matching your femme presentation. I have one and it is very useful when out shopping for presenting a photo ID to use a credit card or for proving your age at a bar or liquor store. Of course if you are stopped for a driving infraction while out dressed you will still have to present a valid driver's license. But showing a valid ID that has your femme photo on it along with the driver's license can reduce confusion. Every state has different laws on this, so you need to check where you reside.

[katiekat]

A few years ago my Tri-Ess group had the opportunity to have TG ID's made. It has a picture of me dressed and all the relative information that would match my DL and the statement that this is done for personal reasons with no intent to deceive.
I carry this with my license and if asked will give both to the officer. Of course, if you drive within the law there should be no reason to have to present ID, unless it's a DUI stop or something like that.

Something similar to this: http://transformationsbyrori.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34&products_id=7 ?

[Rogina B]

In Georgia you can have a state issued ID card in addition to your state issued driver's license. Both are issued by the same agency and both are legal identification. They both will have identical information on them (name, address, birthday, etc.). But, they can have different photos. You just go to Drivers Services dressed femme to get your ID and you will have a legal ID with a photo matching your femme presentation. I have one and it is very useful when out shopping for presenting a photo ID to use a credit card or for proving your age at a bar or liquor store. Of course if you are stopped for a driving infraction while out dressed you will still have to present a valid driver's license. But showing a valid ID that has your femme photo on it along with the driver's license can reduce confusion. Every state has different laws on this, so you need to check where you reside.

I have written about this before a few times now. The real ID Act prevents dual forms of ID.I have State of Florida ID and I was told by the DMV,that it is no longer allowed and they wouldn't change my address as they said if I handed it to them,they were supposed to take it! Texas Kimberly says that Texas is still doing ID cards against the "Federal wishes"...Florida isn't...

[Princess Chantal]

I wonder if (as a crossdresser) carrying and using a credit card under your femme name without the legal id to match could be considered as fraud

[AllieSF]

I wonder if (as a crossdresser) carrying and using a credit card under your femme name without the legal id to match could be considered as fraud

I don't think so. A credit card is issued by a private company. Those that accept the card (stores, restaurants, bars, etc.) without proper identification, e.g. when you make a purchase, take on the risk of the bad identity along with the credit card company, not you. You are not doing anything wrong, unless you present false ID that is not the real you and does not match the credit card.

[Jennifer Kelly]

I've never been out en femme, but I've thought about it a lot and decided the best option is to pay for everything with cash so you don't get asked for ID. Now if the cops pull you over that's a bit problematic, but before I go out for the first time (whenever that ends up being), I'll probably make sure everything on my car is in order (headlights, tail lights, etc) and then drive a couple of miles under the speed limit to wherever I'm going. :)

[Jennifer Kelly]

In Georgia you can have a state issued ID card in addition to your state issued driver's license. Both are issued by the same agency and both are legal identification. They both will have identical information on them (name, address, birthday, etc.). But, they can have different photos. You just go to Drivers Services dressed femme to get your ID and you will have a legal ID with a photo matching your femme presentation. I have one and it is very useful when out shopping for presenting a photo ID to use a credit card or for proving your age at a bar or liquor store. Of course if you are stopped for a driving infraction while out dressed you will still have to present a valid driver's license. But showing a valid ID that has your femme photo on it along with the driver's license can reduce confusion. Every state has different laws on this, so you need to check where you reside.

Hmm. I wonder if California does this.

[brandi.tgurl]

Hmm. I wonder if California does this.

I don't recall specifically Cali's laws on this. But, California does offer a state issued ID card, in addition, to its driver's license. You may carry both, if I remember correctly, but I would be prepared for both to have identical information on them - as they are both created, regulated, and issued through the same agency: DMV. In California, your Driver's license actually states on it, "...is issued as a license to drive a motor vehicle; it does not establish eligibility for employment, voter registration..." Its not technically, a form of identification, just proof that you can legally drive a car. But, it is accepted as ID almost universally.
The DMV's website, does provide valuable information about obtaining a license, or just the state issued ID card... and California has specific requirements for obtaining ID as a trans-person. I was hoping to obtain one for use when CDing, but was unable to find a way to legally do it - as the state doesn't address crossdressing for this process. i identify as a male, and even though i sometimes wish to be female, i don't feel like a female stuck in a man's body. and, while i'd love to have more feminine features, i'm not sure i'd go through surgery to obtain them. at this point in my life, if i can reasonably pass en femme, (and by that i mean, not draw attention to myself in a crowd) that's good enough for me. And so, the issue seems to be in the gender identification, from what i remember; meaning, you may obtain an ID for either gender you wish to present as, but you must choose one gender or the other and have supporting documents in favor of your presenting gender if it is different from your birth gender. i don't plan on changing all my legal docs from an M to an F. I didn't even want my ID to have an F on it, just an M with me as en femme for the pic. I never did think to ask about having two separate pictures taken. And, the DMV may be able to store both pictures in its database. I would just worry that when it came time to renew my (male) DL, it would show up with a female's picture. I also would have preferred to have an ID with my femme name, (which is really the female version of my birth name and my middle name as my surname), instead of my quite unique legal name. But, this begins to border on fraud, i feel. It seems like this would be an issue that Lambda Legal would have more ability to discuss it with. For me, I just figured, if i get carded, what's the harm? most people won't be looking at all the info on the ID anyway. Bars and Clubs just want to see the picture and the birthday and retail establishments would only need to see the name matches the credit card presented... The only ones who might look at the whole thing are law enforcement, and again, that can be avoided by keeping clean, anyhow - or just a little hike of the skirt or slip of that spaghetti strap... just sayin'

[Jennifer Kelly]

Well that's not going to work as I identify as male. I just like to wear dresses and heels sometimes. So I wouldn't be able to get any of those documents. I guess I'll just roll with my DL and take my chances.

[Rogina B]

The" last picture of record" is what shows up on the computer screen in the patrol car.So,for some of us lucky to have a state ID card[the REALID Act is real]our girl pic is what the officer sees.Sometimes that makes for an interesting discussion..lol and sometimes not. Getting one[the ID card] wasn't for the timid.

[Princess Chantal]

I don't think so. A credit card is issued by a private company. Those that accept the card (stores, restaurants, bars, etc.) without proper identification, e.g. when you make a purchase, take on the risk of the bad identity along with the credit card company, not you. You are not doing anything wrong, unless you present false ID that is not the real you and does not match the credit card.

So what happens if you produce the card at the cash till and they question you to provide proof of identification? Obviously your legal id would not line up with the credit card. That is one sticky situation I would never put myself in no matter what i am wearing. Thankfully, I wouldn't let my pink fog become such a pea-souper.
I am pretty sure that falsifying your credit card application by any means (name, address, income) is illegal, so in fact you are doing something wrong from the get go.....

[AllieSF]

So what happens if you produce the card at the cash till and they question you to provide proof of identification? Obviously your legal id would not line up with the credit card. That is one sticky situation I would never put myself in no matter what i am wearing. Thankfully, I wouldn't let my pink fog become such a pea-souper.
I am pretty sure that falsifying your credit card application by any means (name, address, income) is illegal, so in fact you are doing something wrong from the get go.....

I was referring to someone using their legal credit card (correct gender, name, address, etc.) and then using a false ID. I was not referring to someone providing false information when applying and subsequently obtaining a credit card.

In my scenario, the person reviewing the date on your false ID, makes the decision to complete the transaction as requested or denying the processing of the transaction because the provide ID does not match the credit card. I agree with you that falsifying a credit card application is probably illegal. If the pic is in femme mode on the ID and all other information is correct, I am not sure what would happen, but if the person is the same and the bill eventually gets paid, no one loses. I have heard of members of this site getting a second card on the same account with their femme name on it. Now a days here in the US, people get scammed by someone else who uses their card number to buy goods or services. This last year someone did that to me. My credit card company protected me. Actually, they contacted me right after the purchases were made (in another state on the East Coast) and asked me if I made them, and I said no.

For me personally, I only pass at a long distance, so I try to fool no one. Why should I? They ask for ID and I give them my real one. I look good as a male (at least I think I do!) and sometimes just tell them that I don't like my ID pic anymore. It always gets a nice smile from them.

[MillaMarie]

For those of us lucky enough to have long hair, it's nice to get our license renewal done with light makeup, a cute top, & styled long hair. The first time you do this you might get a little second look when they compare your old & new photos, particularly if you have recently started hormones, grown your hair out, FFS etc. Over time (you can lose your license...) just continue to morph & you'll not have any problems having a photo on your ID that looks like the real you......

[Starr]

i have to renew my license this summer, and can't wait. My photo here is all me, the long hair is mine so i can't wait to get a new photo with my long hair that is cut in a fem cut.. will also add a little makeup, ladies top and maybe ear rings.. so will see how the new photo looks on my license...