The Grand Fantasy

[Kathryn Martin]

My great concern is often when I come to this place that people end up getting caught in fantasies about who they should be instead of paying attention to who they are.

We hear the recurring stories about clues in childhood. Earliest memories from infant years. The issue of clues is an interesting one. Most people believe that clues are preferences, dreams and certain social behavior. I have learned in my path that they mean little or nothing. Real clues are much more visceral, physical, from below the threshold of consciousness. Liking girls, dolls and those things means nothing. My son's most prized possession as a young child was a doll which he has to this day. He is a very masculine man (not macho) although most of his friends through childhood were girls. He did play with dolls as well and often preferred the company of girls over boys. Some were imposed by the lack of many boy friends in the neighborhood. These things I have come to realize are not very relevant and often when taken to seriously obscure the underlying things that truly raise questions.

More often these narratives are constructed from what people have learned through socialization with trans persons and the internet and so personal history in hindsight gets formed by external narratives. It is, it seems as if the dream of an improvement of life becomes the father of the narrative.

The result expresses itself in what we usually call the pink fog and an inability to overcome the internal monologue where you see the person talking him/herself into a state of being that essentially a dream, a fantasy and it grows until no space is left to review one's own biography with clear thought. We have had the stories of this internal hamster wheel lately quite often.

What is often particularly distressing is that clear planning of a transition roadmap is not done. People literally lie assets into their own pockets to effect a result: to "become a woman". Much chest beating and haranguing follows over the question whether to transition and it's effects on others, their financial and social security, their loved ones, and looking from an outside perspective much of that smacks of "flirting" with an idea and not an existential issue.

It seems that there is much goings on about the clues mentioned above and very little about the actual distress felt and how that has affected the persons biography.

It is not what you liked that will give you a clue, it is not the feeling of "woman born into a man's body" or the desire to become a woman that makes you transsexual.

Honesty, especially with yourself is hard to find in these quarters. Don't get defensive when you read this but think how honest you really are with yourself about these things. How much of your narrative is actually constructed. When did you first begin to think about suicide, killing yourself, ending your life because of what you were not able to cope with. Ask yourself how it is possible that your might be transsexual if until a couple of years ago you never even considered killing yourself because of this one very narrow and specific issue: distress over the disfigurement of your body in the light of an actual personal physical reality of having a male reproductive configuration.

Ask yourself whether the idea of being a woman or becoming a woman is really what should inform your taking this step, a step that is hard, unforgiving and full of great consequences for the rest of your life. Then ask yourself whether in coming here you simply feed a huge fantasy or a reality of your biography.

[AnitaH]

No offense taken. As one who is beginning the process leading towards transition this is a pertinant time to ask this very question of myself. Have I allowed myself to be romanced into this? This is not a decision to be taken lightly. I have heard it said that you transition because you have to, never because you want to. This is perhaps the best advice I can give to another person or myself.

You transition because you have to never because you want to.

AnitaH

[whowhatwhen]

Just out of curiosity, aren't fantasies supposed to be positive?
I mean, how can the depression and constant internal struggle be anything close to a fantasy?

I'm not taking offense, it just seems a bit hard to believe that one could manufacture such pain as part of a feminization fantasy.

[Marleena]

I see nothing offensive here but a reality check to everyone questioning if they are TS or not.

[Rianna Humble]

Talking to a friend recently, I likened the back-story of a number of late transitioners (including myself) to what happened to me after I was diagnosed with diabetes. Once I understood what the symptoms of untreated diabetes can be, I was able to identify incidents going back over the previous 4 to 6 years which I had not previously understood but which were clear pointers to the condition.

Each of us has had to live our lives to the best of our ability and understanding at the different stages of that life. Some of us had to sublimate the essential life-pointers in order to cope with being someone who we really were not and sometimes we only really understand incidents in our past with hindsight.

Being transsexual - even though I didn't want to be - is what prevented me from marrying the woman with whom I was madly in love, yet it would be another quarter of a century before I finally gave in to the obvious. Others did not let their gender identity get in the way of marrying and in some cases of bringing up children. Am I "more tranny" than those people? I say not.

[Xrys]

i have spent the last 12 years researching transition, finding evry bit of info i could find. i have put it off for as long as i can stand. i know this is not a miracle cure for all the problems in my life. this is, however, the key for me to live my life with honesty and integrity. i am a woman, plain and simple. i just want the world to see me for who i am. the things i like and dont like are irrelevent. when i close my eyes and picture my self, i see a woman, and i just want to see that woman looking back at me in the mirror. i want my friends and family to see and love me as that woman. to make any one think i am anything else is deceptive and dishonest, and i cannot keep up this male sharade anylonger with a clean concience. that is why i must, i must transition.

[Beth-Lock]

Just out of curiosity, aren't fantasies supposed to be positive?
I mean, how can the depression and constant internal struggle be anything close to a fantasy?

I'm not taking offense, it just seems a bit hard to believe that one could manufacture such pain as part of a feminization fantasy.

I guess many people feel a need to justify their potential or actual transition by proving that they had little choice. In fact, with the liberalization of the way the TS phenomenon is increasingly dealt with today, you do not need to suffer pain to get a seal of approval for your transition, as one would have in the past. Time moves on. Plastic surgery is no longer limited just to treatment of horrifically disfigured war wounded either, but is often undertaken as a matter of wish fulfillment and the worship of female beauty equivalent of the pink fog.

What is fantasy, but an often artful imagination of how a heartfelt desire might be fulfilled. Some psycihiatrists say you can be depressed and not know it. So, caaanot you be repressed, and not know that somewhere in your underlying nature, no natter how deeply buried, is evidence for your potential to live happliy as a woman and flourish? And once this is unveiled by counselling, it turns into a desire not previiously held? Is that what many of us late transitioners experience? Is a psychologist's uncovering such a part of our inner, deep nature, legitimately and logically reducible to anlong with the resuling transition, explicable as just the operation of mere propaganda and persuasive salemanship?

[GabbiSophia]

If it is a fantasy then the reality of it should make it end?? no?? How do you explain the feeling you are descibing to the need to become a woman?

[Rogina B]

Each of us has had to live our lives to the best of our ability and understanding at the different stages of that life. Some of us had to sublimate the essential life-pointers in order to cope with being someone who we really were not and sometimes we only really understand incidents in our past with hindsight.

Being transsexual - even though I didn't want to be - is what prevented me from marrying the woman with whom I was madly in love, yet it would be another quarter of a century before I finally gave in to the obvious. Others did not let their gender identity get in the way of marrying and in some cases of bringing up children. Am I "more tranny" than those people? I say not.
Absolutely! There are many "shades" to this "T something" world.Not everyone has been suicidal,especially if they lived a life where they didn't get boxed in by their birth gender.And also some of us are realists in that transitioning at a late age most likely means dying alone.Better to find a personal balance that allows one to cope well with the situation.

[GabbiSophia]

And also some of us are realists in that transitioning at a late age most likely means dying alone.Better to find a personal balance that allows one to cope well with the situation.

great comment ...and in my own life I am trying to find my personal balance. I am early to this but I am not sure that losing everything on both sides of the fence is justifiable.

[Kathryn Martin]

Thank you for your responses. To me it is interesting that most have responded in a defensive mode. I raised the questions in my original post essentially to provide an opportunity to ask the really hard questions about who you are, a woman or a man with a illusion, a fantasy.

Is that not one of the fundamental questions that we all must ask before transitioning. I would like to address a few very specific responses:


I mean, how can the depression and constant internal struggle be anything close to a fantasy?

Depression and internal struggles no matter what their source or cause are never a fantasy. But let us make no mistake, if there are co-morbidity issues then how would you ever know that the underlying cause of is your sex or gender conflict. There is much illusion around how transition will cure all your life challenges. It is bizarre to watch at times.


Being transsexual - even though I didn't want to be - is what prevented me from marrying the woman with whom I was madly in love, yet it would be another quarter of a century before I finally gave in to the obvious. Others did not let their gender identity get in the way of marrying and in some cases of bringing up children. Am I "more tranny" than those people? I say not.

I think you generalize a very personal biographical experience. In fact I don't think anything that I said raised personal biography (which is really a topic for a different day). Subliming a narrative, or as Beth-Lock put it "learning" a narrative carries a great danger of subliming or learning something that is not a fact for the person subliming. Given the existential consequences (on all levels of human existence) that befall those that transition where do you see the checks and balances in your own journey that prevent you from living the grand illusion.


If it is a fantasy then the reality of it should make it end?? no?? How do you explain the feeling you are descibing to the need to become a woman?

This notion of "becoming a woman" has always given me the most headache. If you have happily lived as a man for decades with no mental health issues and suddenly you discover that you need to "become a woman" maybe you need to step away from the hamster wheel of your internal monologue. Firstly, "becoming a woman" implies that you feel that you need to be different from what you are now. Does that not raise serious questions. What is it about the "now" that requires you to be different. Is your distress the result of dis-satisfaction with your current lot. And if that is the case, what is the underlying cause of your lot to which "becoming a woman" is the solution? And is the need to "become a woman" not possibly just a fantasy, the "if I am this then my life will be better"?


..... some of us are realists in that transitioning at a late age most likely means dying alone.

Have you ever asked yourself the question of why that is so, and if being a realist as you say gives you insight into what aspect of your being that creates the danger of "dying alone".

[stefan37]

I have known from an early age I was different. I have always believed I was born the wrong gender, but I continued to grow and live as my body physiologically was created. I have a sexual orientation geared towards females. I enjoy and participate in many
male orientated activities. I have learned professional skills and thrive in a male centric dominated industry and have many business relationships. I have suffered from anxiety constantly since as long as I consciously understood it. I would feel the urge to feminize my face and body as much as I could without upsetting the status quo. I crossdressed from a very early age and hid it from all that knew me except for a girlfriend and my wife, both of which I was serious with. I disclosed to my wife my proclivity to crossdress long before I proposed. I have never had serious bouts of depression and quite honestly do not understand it. I know it exists and those that it affects suffer greatly. I have never had thoughts of suicide and can not fathom why anyone would want to take their life deliberately although I can see how that might be preferable to a slow death by unhealthy habits.
But I know me and I have taken steps to reconcile my anxiety and although I do not have a solid transmap on paper, I do have one in my head that is fluid depending on how events in my personal life transpire. I have received great comfort taking the steps I have and I continue to move forward, much to the dismay of those immediately close to me. Lots talk about having no choice, and in an abstract sense this may be correct. The reality is we all have a choice and who is to say the alternatives are any different. My personality is I tend to drift along until I am faced with events that need corrective action. I have a strong dislike for failure, but fail frequently. I thrive in an industry that without strong resolve and perseverance would chew you up and spit you out without missing a beat. We all have our personal hell and deal with it in our way. I certainly enjoy and take seriously the advice and experiences of those that have progressed. there are guidelines, but no rulebook how to transition. We all transition or not to whatever degree is necessary in our own way at our own pace. Who is to say one way is better than the other. I could go petal to the metal and bankrupt my self and family to reach my goal and probably cause a scorched earth policy and end up alone, or I could pace myself to try to allow my family and resources to pace along to with a result of keeping the family unit cohesive and in the end that to me is the only important thing. My wife and I will not be husband and wife and we may separate, but we will continue be friends, business partners and love and care about each other.
Would I wish things were different, in some ways yes, but the reality is I am 56 have lived and thrived in a male centric environment, my body reflects that reality and I have realistic expectations of what I may look as I transition. I also have the self confidence and perseverance to transition and in my mind I will be successful. The reality may be different and I may not be any happier as a result. But I do hope that what others said about inner peace is true and I eventually experience that congruence when I reach the point of comfort. This is my life experience and it may share circumstances with others or not but ultimately it is mine and I take responsibility for whatever outcome transpires.
I really like the statement Melissa expressed "nothing changes, yet everything changes". To me that is so powerful and true, I use it daily to give me the strength to continue.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

While I do think some people need reality checks, I am not overly fond of those who partake of the "you're not a real transsexual unless you've thought of suicide" thing.

It's the whole "Realer Rabbit" thing.

Veronica

[Angela Campbell]

I too am not sure that the only true transexuals are the ones who contemplate suicide.

[Rianna Humble]

I think you generalize a very personal biographical experience. In fact I don't think anything that I said raised personal biography (which is really a topic for a different day).

On the contrary, by suggesting that late transition is not necessarily valid unless one has been suicidal about the gender conflict in earlier life you were indeed raising personal biographies.

I merely raised another aspect of back-stories that can be different from one individual to another.

In my specific instance, although I was not suicidally depressed over the fact of being a woman with a birth defect, Gender Dysphoria did have a profound effect on circumstances in my life. I simply pointed out that those effects don't make me more or less valid than someone who was able to marry and raise children before finding themselves faced with the need to transition.

It is good to invite people to reflect and to challenge them if they appear to be giving in to fantasy, but there is no one back-story that is more or less valid than any other.

[LeaP]

There is nothing more fraught with the potential for self-deception than one's narrative, even when earnestly examined. Like all history, it tends to be revisionist in order to reflect the self-understanding of the moment. Like scripture, there are many interpretations and layers of truth ... including interpretations which conflict but are nonetheless true.

Examining oneself in this way yields insights, but sometimes it seems the most valuable are those that come unbidden. A small example: A realization recently that impact of my mother's depression (over decades, including hospitalizations and electro-shock) on me - something I had experienced as painful and destructive - actually protected me. How? It forced me to learn to function through my own quite serious depression. I've written about this in the past. It carried negative consequences, like delaying treatment for decades, as well as bestowing emotional armor. I've known this for a long time ... but it's not the benefit or protection I mean.

The recent realization is that "functional depression," along with the repression it helped create, kept me from my sex and gender issues before I was capable of dealing with them. Looking back at my history, I'm about as certain as I can be that surfacing THAT during a period characterized by extreme stress and rage would have killed me. There were several attempts as it was. (Not consciously over sex/gender, BTW. There is a sidebar lesson about therapy in this story, too, in that my background mulling over my depression history was triggered by my therapist's repeated descriptions of my depression as "deep" and "serious" in her thus-far successful efforts to keep me on ADs.)

Anyway, It seems the very things I've been complaining of and fighting over the last year or so - repression, depression, anger, confusion, etc. - have been my salvation. Coupled with a knowledge of the hypersensitivity I've had since childhood, it explains why I've been feeling so vulnerable as I have started stripping away the armor. I appear to have arrived at a point in life where I can live exposed.

There are many interrelating phenomena going on here, including my current life circumstances, the impact of anti-depressants, hormones, and anti-androgens. The latter are important not just because of their role in combined hormone therapy, but because they remove the cache of self-destructive explosives.

I've been questioned about proceeding with HRT before committing to transition. I questioned myself! I believe, however, that I could not have made that decision without proceeding first with HRT (as well as addressing depression). Is that revisionist? Honestly, I'm not certain and may never be so.

My journey proceeds from two primary drivers: what I feel about my sex and gender (beginning with yet another unbidden realization of same over a year ago), and what I can tolerate. There is nothing else. Being forced into the present - being present - has, in fact, been at once one of the most rewarding and one of the most difficult aspects of the journey to-date.

If I have discovered many commonalities with other transsexuals, I have also found profound differences. As is so often said, each of our journeys is unique. I don't think I appreciated just what that meant, however. It does refer to differences in the path. It's probably better viewed as a reflection of how our individual differences dictate the divergence as we discover ourselves in the rabbit hole. The path is forced as much as the endpoint.

[stefan37]

I always believed I was transsexual, but would never admit that to anyone including myself. At a young age before the internet I had no idea there were so many like me and I had no idea where to even find support. Not to mention the fact I would choice any word to describe how my parents and friends would react. I never in my wildest dreams thought I would ever be where I am now. I had so many fears why it would never come to this. After my fist couple therapy sessions all those fears except those involving my wife disappeared, and now that the reality of my relationship with her has changed those fears are gone replaced by not fears but concern for her financial stability and the planning of resources needed for us to move forward.

As I said suicide never entered my mind at any point in my life. Extreme anxiety would spur me into projects and eventually exercise to help mitigate it. I still did not think it was transition or die and today if I was not to transition I would not consider taking my life. I would have to live with the anxiety and the unhealthy consequences of that decision. I have found a greater sense of purpose and comfort with the decisions I have made and the changes that have occurred. But it is my life expereince solely and while others may have similar others experience is completely different. All our experiences are valid.

I guess the difficulty I have is many that have transitioned completely and are post op feel they are somehow privileged and others need to reach that same point to be considered in their "club". And there is only one way and it needs to be done as quickly as possible. I am finding out that it is a marathon and going as fast as nature allows is the best process for me. It may or will not acceptable to someone else. Transition no matter how fast or slow introduces it's own set of stress and how we handle that stress will define who we are in the end. Hell there are many that do transition completely and still take their lives. I am a late transitioner that has it's own set of challenges I must meet, primarily my own mortality. I work in an extremely hazardous industry and spend much time on the roads that statistically is one of the greatest taker of lives. So in the end i may not live to enjoy my goal or not be in a position to really enjoy the peace I am hoping for. And in the end inner peace is what I think we all want ot achieve and it may not or not mean greater happiness.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

There is no reason to be defensive..
Lea's perspective is excellent...in the end its about what you do...how are things going for you? what can you tolerate? its your life!! for each of us, its up to you...

I agree beth that different points of view are intellectualy defensible....but the point of view that being transsexual is learned is very much debunked ....calling it a theoretical fault line is just ignoring factual data and real life experience...
Most transsexuals i know that made it past their 30's as a guy would have been delighted to "learn" how to be a man..
If you are saying that memories and thoughts are influenced by time and experience, i totally agree...and that can make it hard to communicate...as evidenced by this thread..

I think its a terrible idea to say that "you have to be suicidal" to be ts... but so many ts people consider suicide its worth knowing...it does no good to downplay that fact...i don't think people actually say it that way anyway..

as far as dying alone, I chose to risk dying alone by transitioning rather than know i would die feeling alone by not.........IF you are transsexual you will die alone surrounded by people that happily let you do it...

.... if you go to your grave happy and content that you made it as a guy, you did the right thing for yourself..who cares whether you got affirmation on a message board in 2012......anyway after transition, I am far from alone..

I lived my life beleiving this was a fantasy...it was the 24/7 nature of the "fantasy", which lead to my inablilty to function that drove me to reconsider my notions...this caused me to remember things in my past more thoughtfully...
but i was barely focused on the past...i was focused on my distress and how i was failing to deal with it....it was by "doing it" that i discovered myself..i had doubts well into my transition.

balance is a good goal...it implies trade offs....one trade off is the questions will always be there and yes they come from every angle...they are just questions...

I can't relate to telling people that it will "be OK" or that balance is achievable because for the ts it wont be....I am not saying whether a person is or isn't ts... i'm saying the whole balance thing is not going to work out very well for you IF you are truly transsexual...and if the balance thing works out, its likely your own nature (ie not a ts) that made that happen for you....you don't have to live in the gender binary...if male moments do anything for you, stick with your genes...

as long as we all communicate honestly then we can all decide what to get out of each of the posts on this forum...agreeing/disagreeing, back and forth...thats the way it should be...

[Kathryn Martin]

Lea, your comment is an excellent one. The point of my original post was not to point fingers, but to warn about revisionism in biographical hindsight and the work necessary to understand what it actually means. Understanding depression and the distinction between functional and situational is of such value in examining and re-examining your motives that drive you to transition.

Kaitelyn, my point about distress is really the point I want to make. If you wake up one morning at age 50 and want to "become a woman" without a history of distress over exactly the narrow issue of your sex or gender conflict then you present a different picture than someone who struggled with this all of their lives. What changed? And in order to justify your desire to "become a woman" revisionist history is made. I find your comment about doubts in transition very valid. If you take your obligation to examine and re=examine your history against the reality of your actual biography very carefully you will likely write your history with realism and truth.

Your description about believing your life is a fantasy is central to transsexuals. When the reality hits home that it is not because of the ever present distress over years and years and years you are primed to be a doubting and very cautious transitioner. And that is what I am trying to say.

[melissaK]

I have my coffee and an hour before I have to ready myself for work. I wander to the PC. I open the forum page. I saw Kathryn's thread late yesterday. Kathyrn is such an important insightful commentator, I quote her in my own signature line. The post was long, complex, challenging. I knew it would take me hours to draft any kind of meaningful response, so I went to bed. So what happened since?

I click on the thread. I am not disappointed. I am transported to the University of Crossdressers.Com, and to the Department of Transsexualism. I am sitting in on a guest lecture the curriculum guide calls "The Role of Existentialism in Gender Self Awareness: The Grand Fantasy". It is an awesome lecture and Q & A session.

I leave the lecture pondering the complexities of my being . . . ruminating over my own life, and over my intuited sense of destiny. I mean it is Kathryn, she oft moves at deeper levels, for deeper purpose. She's oft harder to follow than I like to admit. The length of her post belies another deep effort. She gave a challenge to reconsider myself. For all of us to do that. The Q & A's were so good. Fast moving, but each revealing something.

How much of Kathryn's challenge about knowing ones self applies to me? What posts have I made that distort my own narrative? There are so many! My narrative is so complex, so situational, I oft parse it down to an single element appropriate to the thread, and if that parsed statement is looked at in conjunction with another post, it can look incongruent, and other errant conclusions could be reached. But the parsed statements aren't at all incongruent, because I know myself. LeaP noted that. So she sees it. So its probably true for all of us. We have such complex life histories, the challenge of parsing out examples to explain how we feel right here right now is daunting. My mind flashes on another song, Jesus Jones - http://youtu.be/x6zDCfaZpA0

I think I, and everyone else who posts here, are going to over generalize, we are going to make some poor word choices. Sometimes we will write the C paper instead of the A paper. But the bad reporting doesn't alter the truth of the events that happened that reporter is trying to explain. The tree falling in the woods still makes noise regardless of the presence of a human listener. Certainly Kathyrn understands that. Is she just challenging us to make sure we are good reporters. Am I Woodward & Bernstein? Am I Clark Kent? Am I Jonah Jameson writing for headlines and sales?

There seems something wrong about Kathryn's OP, it has unstated premises. Vague definitions, paucity of specific examples. Were I in court I'd object - "lacks foundation your honor." Could explain the defensive responses - not so much defensive but concerned the OP has rigged the game. But its Kathryn. A test where the tested must fill in their own test criteria. They must self examine. Its working. I am self-examining.

But I don't get everything she said. She said "People literally lie assets into their own pockets to effect a result: to "become a woman"." What does that mean??

And this business of suicide. Ugh. Really? Is Kathryn presuming it's only 1 time? Who here reports it being a 1x event? Seems most are like me, I mean how many times in my life have I been on the edge of that abyss? How many are hidden in dissociative fugue states that liter my past? How seldom I speak about all the trips to the abyss, they f***g hurt to revisit. I don't want to go there again!!! Do I have to go there again in every post so others understand the lifelong gender thread I am following in my life? Is that what Kathryn needs to hear from us all so our posts have enough authenticity? No. She just wants me to check myself.

My trips to the abyss are all accompanied by an immense loneliness, the loneliness of being the wrong birth gender. Hell. It's WHY I quote Kathryn in my signature block.

And the Q about why is being on the edge of the abyss treated like it's a requirement for admission to a higher existential state? Darn good question. I contemplate my feelings about it. What feeling is it? Its shame. Sigh. Shame again!? Really!?? Each suicide contemplation marks my lifelong failure to deal effectively with my own inner self. How humiliating to have to disclose it. So many times I rescued myself from the abyss and charted my life course for a new compass heading that I hoped wouldn't lead me back there. So often my world was round and I was back at the abyss. And this last time, I chart my course to transition. And you know what? I feel better than I ever have.

I'm thinking someone who recognizes and accepts their trans gender feelings, and never steers their ship to the abyss, they should be praised. I am certain they are no less transgendered. I think of KellyCan . . . Santa Monica girl. And I think the better adjusted stay off these boards.

I think its those like me, one of the the mal-adjusted, one of the ones who struggles the most with self acceptance, the ones who look in the mirror and doubt it's possible to get there from here, the ones of us who have such insecurities in ourselves and such deep abandonment fears that leaving a spouse and marriage is a path to another abyss of pain from another source, I think it is us who dominate this forum.

But my God I am thankful they are here to share with me. Sweet Jesus do we need each other. Can someone who makes a perfect transition appreciate that they are different? Can someone without the same co-morbidity issues judge our degree of desire to transition? Do those people think that we are looking to transition to fix our co-morbidity issues? Do they think we can't figure out we have multiple issues to deal with?

And I think I most need the stories of the ones with similar co-morbid issues who survived the transition, the Kaitlyns, to let me know the journey is survivable. And I need the comments of everyone else in their various states of transition. I really do need to hear from them. There is no other way to get this information.

I am a big fan of my subconscious intuition more so than of my conscious logic. My intuition was right. My response would take hours. I'm late for work now. And my intuition has no ultimate conclusions in response to this thread but one, it was worth my time. Thanks Kathryn.

[LeaP]

My perspective on the fantasy aspect is this: It comes from easily observable reality.

We all know and acknowledge that there are those here with fetishes and sexual fantasies. I am not talking about subtleties such as things masking other conditions, either. I'm speaking of those firm in their conviction of their maleness.

Then there are those who "Like to hang with the trans women," as one friend has put it. There are actually many reasons for this. They include those who are uncertain and need the interaction. It includes gender queer people who sometimes simply fit in better with this group. It includes the merely curious, who come and go. But it also includes those who do like to flirt with womanhood as fantasy. Who knows all the reasons why? Their writing tends to follow certain patterns, however, and they are easily detectable, in the main.

The socialization with trans persons and the resulting impact on narratives is an interesting topic. Kathryn's hypothesis is that some of the fantasy seekers do this, consciously or not, and that, in turn, feeds the fantasy. I believe this is true, at least for some, because you can see it happen regularly on the forum.

There are two patterns here as it pertains to the narratives: the first is the true fantasy seeker who is doing it willfully and consciously. These are usually caught out at some point in what is essentially a web of lies. Those who do it unconsciously I am a bit reluctant to term fantasy seekers. The pattern here is a period of self-torture, usually resulting in an admission that they are not transsexual as realities and consequences assert themselves. ... But to the fantasy point, it often includes an admission that they got caught up in thinking of womanhood.

If you are sufficiently introspective, the last two paragraphs of the OP are far more a description of what it means to examine yourself and your history than they are suggestions of any fixed answers.

[Michelle.M]

And also some of us are realists in that transitioning at a late age most likely means dying alone.Better to find a personal balance that allows one to cope well with the situation.

That is a very interesting comment that is rife with so many important ramifications for both trans and cis folks.

I think that's a common, well, let's go ahead and say it - fear - as we get older. What will become of me? Will I ever have anyone to share the remaining years of my life with again, or am I destined to die alone? It's very scary to contemplate this, and the logical conclusions always seem to be so grim. And both trans and cis folks are equally susceptible to this depressing self-dialogue.

I think as a result of this longing we have reason to be somewhat envious of those who transition in the context of an existing functional marriage. If your spouse has weathered this storm and she's still with you then you have one of the greatest blessings that you'll ever know. I hope that those who are so lucky are regularly expressing their gratitude to their wives (or husbands, if the case may be).

But I think elderly folks (let's say, starting with anyone over 50 years old) often experience so many missed opportunities because we limit ourselves by assuming that it's just too late for us, we're past our prime, it's a young person's game or any number of other reasonable-sounding excuses that we use as justification for not at least trying to live to our full potential.

Sad, really. And I (among many others here) am living proof that this need not be so.

I started my transition just before I turned 52. I'll be 55 in a few weeks, GRS is right around the corner and my life couldn't be better. During this last year I began my RLE and also started dating a wonderful man. Yes, first date, first kiss, first everything at age 54! He's fit, strong, incredibly handsome and totally devoted to me and I to him. We act like lovesick teenagers.

I have more friends than I ever had before. I became a member of a church for the first time in my life and I live a full, active and wholly satisfying life. I came out to my son and as a result he and I are closer than we've ever been and his wife loves having a new mother-in-law and the kids think having another grandmother is terrific! In fact, my granddaughter is coming to visit soon so the two of us can hang out and enjoy some girl time together.

Yes, the prospect of making things worse by transitioning is scary. But for me, a life with my remaining years spent in regret would have been much worse. And probably much sadder and much shorter as well.

[Nicole Erin]

Well, THIS doesn't just reak of another "true TS" thread does it?

If someone wants to live as a woman, they will learn pretty quick about the realities. Issues with "passing", having to look over one's shoulder more than a typical person does, maybe family problems, and always wondering if rejection from others has something (or everything) to do with being TS.
The hardest one for me to stomach is the prospect of probably being alone til I die. It hurts like hell. I am reasonably attractive, take care of myself, and I am well spoken. Supposedly that isn't even close to being "good enough" for anyone to want anything more than to fulfill some weird curiosity. Fun thing to look forward to when one is not even 40 yet.

Once someone has a taste of what it is like to try living in a new gender role, they know it gets harder as time goes on. That does not mean they can just hang it up and go back to living as a man without ever looking back. I don't think too many TS just one day decide to cut their hair, purge their clothes, change their name back, quit the HRT, and become one of the guys again. Has anyone on the forums or real life ever done this?

And since there is no set test to figure out if one is "truly TS" then basically it leaves each of us to decide for ourselves.

I almost started to write what IMO makes someone "not a true TS" but then who am I to decide how anyone else lives?

[Kathryn Martin]

But I don't get everything she said. She said "People literally lie assets into their own pockets to effect a result: to "become a woman"." What does that mean??

when you take a path, in this case to transition, you must have assets (money, clothing, a walking stick etc) with you to get to the end. If however you convince yourself that you have assets in your pocket that are not there then you just put a lie in your pocket and one on which you seek to bank. Revisionist biograhical history is one of those lies. When you have to rely on them they go "pooof" and you have nothing. And what do you rely on then.

The business of suicide is a strange one. The context of the post suggested that if you hit 50 na'er a care in the world and suddenly you "want to become a woman" and have never stepped up to the abyss as you call it because of a true history that has accompanied you from early days what makes you think the sudden distress is related to your sex or gender conflict?. My first reaction will always be : wow, really? and when you look at them with quizzical eyes you get the nicely packaged TS borrowed narrative served that you have heard so often and you ask yourself: wow, really? I don't think you must have actually made an attempt at suicide.

My concern is that people before stepping out onto the road of transition: KNOW YOURSELF and stop lying to yourself.

Most of you seem to think that I imply you are lying, which in fact I am not so much. (I must admit though that having ridden the carousel many times now I can tell which horse won't ride better than a while ago.) All I ask is ask yourself these kind of questions and don't give up when the questions get too tough.

[whowhatwhen]

I don't think it's necessarily "woke up and decided to become a woman", it's more like repressing the fact that something is wrong until it becomes less and less possible to ignore.
If we use that as a dis-qualifier then wouldn't there be no real late transitioners?

[Frances]

I don't think too many TS just one day decide to cut their hair, purge their clothes, change their name back, quit the HRT, and become one of the guys again. Has anyone on the forums or real life ever done this?

Yes, but they are not here anymore, and we have forgetten about them.

[LeaP]

But I think elderly folks (let's say, starting with anyone over 50 years old) ...

Ouch! Michelle - really?

[Michelle.M]

But I think elderly folks (let's say, starting with anyone over 50 years old) ...


Ouch! Michelle - really?

Hey, I had to start somewhere! Besides, I'm 54, so I put myself in that gang just so I'd take the hit as well. LOL

Blame it on AARP propaganda!

[Kathryn Martin]

I don't think it's necessarily "woke up and decided to become a woman", it's more like repressing the fact that something is wrong until it becomes less and less possible to ignore.


Here is the salient part though, if you were repressing (alluded to earlier in relation to Katelyn's comment on believing your fantasizing) then you did not just wake up one day and decide to become a woman.

[elizabethamy]

Kathryn either makes a point that resonates with me, or I am now going to misinterpret her to fit my own troubled worldview. ('lissa, here comes another "C" paper.) I speak for that tiny handful of TG people who didn't know anything at all about it until midlife. I didn't wake up at 50 and "want to become a woman" -- instead, I spent my whole life wondering why I didn't fit in, what kept me on the outside of every circle -- not only of men. Why everyone else enjoyed me so much more than I enjoyed being me. And then suddenly I was crossdressing and shopping and deriving great masses of peace and calm and well-being from it, at a time when the rest of my life was pure hell -- marriage in trouble, fired in a public, drawn-out humiliating way from my job, with no real personal friends anywhere in sight. Not once did I ever think "I wish to be a woman" nor did I think "I am a woman." And perhaps I'm not. Opening up the subject has occupied most of my brainpower and energy for the past two years, and in that time I have found many friends on this board and similar electronic worlds who have suggested, sometimes insisted, that it's obvious that I need to transition. Three different therapists have suggested it, too, in various groovy calm therapyish ways.

Still I think it's entirely possible that my "revelation" during a time of hyper-crisis was a trauma-induced thing that has been stoked and fueled by reading and therapy and corresponding with others. At other times I think it's possible that the crack-up I experienced two years ago didn't create the TG/TS in me, it simply revealed it.

Yet Kathryn cautions quite wisely about attributing too much to past clues. One can make clues and a circumstantial case out of almost anything. Yet if this TG/TS ness is all a fantasy of escape brought on by what was undeniably a terrible midlife crisis/abundance of first world problems, then why is it so relentless still? Why does it keep me up all night? Why am I still here and still talking to therapists? Sometimes I think there is definitely a certain unconscious and well meaning trendiness to this TS thing, both here on the board and in the psychology industry. The Standards of Care are excellent yet they virtually suggest to treatment providers that there is a process to be undertaken when someone presents with gender issues, and that process is an inevitable arc toward transition.

So what I'm saying, in the end, is that I agree with Kathryn. Transgenderedness has a momentum of its own; it is endorsed and encouraged by psychologists; it is, however tenderly, cheered on this board and others like it. Perhaps some of us are really not TS, as Kathryn says, but the question of whether transition would make us worse off than we are now is an entirely different one. Surely the gauntlet of HRT, electrolysis, RLE, and the emotional traumas of divorces and loss of friends and jobs should "screen out" those who aren't truly TS? Yet once on a path, it's hard to get off even when it might be the wrong path.

Red pill or blue pill? Or no pill at all? Who can say? Who is sure, except for Kathryn and -- realistically -- the very few like her who always knew since childhood, pre-puberty, that they were unmistakably not men. The rest of have to make a huge decision in a void of information.

As to those few of us who didn't know until midlife, it could be -- as my wife thinks -- that it wasn't "real" until midlife and therefore ought to be able to be put away, or at the least quarantined. But it could also be that we are not only late transitioners, we are also late discoverers, for a variety of reasons. As to suicidal thoughts, if I thought they (and the relentless depression) truly would disappear forever with transition, I would walk across the bridge. But my guess is that just as moving across the country doesn't make you a different or better person, neither would transition. I don't think people deliberately concoct transition fantasies for kicks except for short periods and/or as a fetish. For those of us on this board, if a fantasy, it is one that comes from a deep and complicated place. Could the same mind that didn't understand such a fundamental truth now be claiming that it now knows for sure what the truth is?

elizabethamy

p.s. I lied. I think it's a "D" paper.

[Kathryn Martin]

Sometimes I think there is definitely a certain unconscious and well meaning trendiness to this TS thing, both here on the board and in the psychology industry. The Standards of Care are excellent yet they virtually suggest to treatment providers that there is a process to be undertaken when someone presents with gender issues, and that process is an inevitable arc toward transition.Not a D paper at all. The above is a very shrewd insight into the whole industry that has been created around men and women fantasizing about being something else. The entire transgender umbrella notion is an outflow of this industry. Sometimes reality masks as an illusion but more often illusion masks as a reality. For Kaitelyn and many others including myself the fight to stave off this fixation (because what should not be cannot be) and the destructive self assessment of being incredibly flawed (hence the depression) illusion masked reality. It's your job and the job of everyone who deals with these issues to ensure that this is the case.

I can construct for you a flawless narrative on how to make the system do what you want. Unless you are incredibly fortunate and have a therapist who is ethically responsible it's up to you and no one else to know yourself. The lure of a better life (and this onion has so many layers that it makes your head spin) influences the truth saying for each of us. It's your job to not let it do so.

I would disagree with you, this board is filled with people who, if not concoct transition fantasies, let themselves be sucked into such fantasies. People constantly compare themselves to others to feel better about themselves in this process. But if you compare yourself to a 6'4" man you will look more female. But it is the wrong comparison. And it does not make you a woman. No one ever wants to call the elephant in the room when seeing pictures of others. My transition counselor (not my shrink) once told me that he was getting tired of 6'2" truck drivers plonking down in front of him leaning forward elbows on their widely spread legs and saying : "I'm woman!!!!" while this is a crass example it does beg the question what universe this unfortunate human was living in. And it is an illusion. Because no 6'2" female truck driver would ever do such a thing. ( I am 6'2" by the way) This is just the external side of the internal aspect of transition discussed above.

The industry lets you believe that it is ok to "express yourself" and "be who you are". They do take your money therapize you and kick you out the door to move to the next one.

And as to pills: that is an important question. Will you take blue = man, your dysphoria is gone and never was there or red = woman instantaneously tomorrow morning but in your present life. Will you make the wise choice?

[kellycan27]

Hindsight is 20/20. Some of us have transitioned ... Some of us are still groping and trying to find our way. I agree with much of what Kathryn says, but like Kathryn I have " been there, got the t-shirt".

[Inna]

It seems to me, that spiritual, internal if you will, growth is more important, however not plainly by it self, to achieve finality of congruency of body and mind. Spiritual growth allows for allowing to shed all layers of false self until we can go no more, all the way to the core, that is where true self resides. Without such undertaking, transition is merely physical and end point, merely visual. In fact to transition and to remain the person you always were, is to remain in transgender state, without hope for release from dysphoric mind set.

[docrobbysherry]

What a marvelously deep and thotful thread, Kathryn!

But, there r many issues. It's NOT simply about fantasy for many of us. And, by "us" a mean dressers, period. Figuring out which side of the CD/TS fence we r is not easy. Especial for many who often put a foot down on one side, then the other! And, examining yourself at your core doesn't necessarily work for all, as Inna mentioned. Because many of us r fluid in our m/f gender desires and flux is a natural part of life. So, we r ALL changing, like it or not.

For my part, I believe strongly in "fantasy" as a motivator in people's lives. If u want something badly enuff, u can often make it happen. Self delusion can be another result, of course.

I think my trans journey hits many of the points posted here. Altho I'm NOT TS, it took quite awhile to figure that out.
I'm one of those odd cases that woke up suddenly at age 50+ wanting breasts and noodling actually becoming female. But, why? I never had one thot that I wasn't male or that I wanted to try on women's things before then! Over a number of years, I more or less worked out what was fantasy and what was "real". But, it wasn't easy!

I had to work thru the: "Jeez! I must be gay!", thots, stage.
The: Trying bootleg herbs and suction devices to grow breasts, stage.
The: Came out of closet online here after 10 years on my own. Finally getting useful information about what being CD/TG/TS mite mean. For the next 5 years, I kept waiting for solid info from my "female persona" buried inside me! Still waiting-----.

So, it took me nearly 14 years to figure out my wanting to be a female was mostly fantasy. What I really wanted was to LOOK like an attractive, even hot, young woman. I've happily accomplished my goal, rite? You'd think so, but that doesn't explain why dressing is still such a compulsion for me!

I spent nearly 10 years trying to work out what was happening to me alone. U may consider most of that time wasted. But my point is, isn't it reasonable that MANY dressers may require years of going back and forth, exploring their desires, feelings, consequences, and fantasies before deciding WHAT they r and WHAT direction they wish to go in? And, like the proverbial female, aren't they allowed to change their minds along the way?

I think posts like the ones here r VERY HELPFUL to the many dressers grasping for answers. They r to ME, anyway.

[Kathryn Martin]

Without such undertaking, transition is merely physical and end point, merely visual.

Inna, having gone through the merely physical, I can like so many before me say, that the real transition begins after all the physical transformation is achieved. To some extent, and without taking anything away from the physical transition what is before your disfigurement is dealt with, living an illusion, an illusion that is filled with little realities, but nevertheless an illusion. The work that lies ahead of you, the transition work that you undertake after full transformation is of a different quality entirely. And it is fraught with many dangers. Crossing the bridge and burning it leaves you not at your destination but in this no-mans-land between the bridge to the promised land and the city of womanhood you hope is your destiny to reach. And it is filled with those that burnt the bridge but whose destiny it was not to reach the city. It is a sad thing to experience. You meet the lonely, the disheartened, the regretters. And the reason is that what this thread is about is where most of them failed.

Sherry, I am happy you posted what you did. Common understanding to the contrary I neither look down on gender variant persons, androgen persons or fetishistic transvestites, nor do I have sense of elitism in regards to my condition. Transsexuality is just not the same. The nature and intensity of the inner conflict is simply different. But no matter which condition you have knowing yourself is your job, like it was yours, and it needs to be undertaken or you falter and stumble around like a blind in a tunnel. Thank you for telling your story here.

[Nicole Erin]

Hindsight is 20/20. Some of us have transitioned ... Some of us are still groping and trying to find our way. I agree with much of what Kathryn says, but like Kathryn I have " been there, got the t-shirt".

I sometimes grope myself. I cannot help it, parts of me are hot! Oh come on, haven't we all done that?
Also if a TS woman who has had implants gets the tee shirt, do they need then a size bigger since her boobies are now taking up more chest room?

[EnglishRose]

Great, more trannier-than-thou stuff about how transition begins after GRS.

Doesn't mention the HUGE gulf between before and after socially transitioning.

[Beth-Lock]

Common understanding to the contrary I neither look down on gender variant persons, androgen persons or fetishistic transvestites, nor do I have sense of elitism in regards to my condition. Transsexuality is just not the same. .

I second that, but add that those going for a full transtion, that is transsexuals, deserve some respect for the difficulty of the task they have chosen, (or that has chosen them). If it had been possible for me, I likely would have had an easier time, and more fun as a CD. It was just not feasible in my case. If you are able to reconcile the feminine and the masculine, in part by being CD, and without crossing over from one to the other totally, you probably are a superior person.

[kellycan27]

I sometimes grope myself. I cannot help it, parts of me are hot! Oh come on, haven't we all done that?
Also if a TS woman who has had implants gets the tee shirt, do they need then a size bigger since her boobies are now taking up more chest room?


It all depends.. Maybe she might just want to wear tight t- shirts.

[Kathryn Martin]

Great, more trannier-than-thou stuff about how transition begins after GRS.

Everyone talks about the gulf before and after socially transitioning you were missing in this post. No one ever talks about what happens after surgery. But I assume that's not in your future.

[Rianna Humble]

And we all know what assume does

[LeaP]

... the real transition begins after all the physical transformation is achieved. ...

I've given this much thought for a long time, because the experience is almost universally reported, and across a wide variety of personalities. The discussions (and arguments) always turn into a who's on first, chicken and egg dispute between the significance of correcting the physical defect vs. the day-to-day reality of social transition.

As I consider it, neither is enough. Putting aside issues like people transitioning out of extending their fantasies, surely both congruence and RLE are preludes to integration. I.e., there can be no integration without both ... So it's not that SRS has some magic or elitist property but that it typically comes last in transition and therefore marks the start of real self-integration.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Right Lea...

i'd add this thought...perhaps it would make a person feel better if instead of saying the "real transition begins after ..." with "yet another transition happens after..."
chickens and eggs are totally different things and they can be discussed without reference to which came first..post srs life is different

you are observing a truth that its universally reported by successful transitioners that post srs a whole new experience comes into play..and its universally a profoundly positive experience..
...i can attest to this from an unbiased place because i was quite ambivalent about srs...i was not convinced it was neccessary...i no longer felt it was life and death...i was feeling guilty about taking the medical risk..but i was not working and my leave from work was running out.. i had saved up the money, i had set the plan in motion as a 30 month plan and the surgery date popped up on my calendar, and obviously i did it...

...after the surgery my inner dialog and how i felt about my relations with people was totally changed...i did not expect the feeling i had..i didn't expect the positive energy and the burst of confidence it created inside me...
i wish i could put better words to how profoundly it changed my transition experience....its wasnt a final phase of transition, it was a whole other thing...

and i heartily recommend anyone that is a woman to get the surgery....i did it, i know what it feels like...its very good......its a pretty basic statement from a pretty basic place, its just the way it is
...its certainly not a 'Trannier than anybody" comment..nobody is trying to make somebody else feel bad as far as i can tell...

[Beth-Lock]

...surely both congruence and RLE are preludes to integration. i.e., there can be no integration without both ... So it's not that SRS has some magic or elitist property but that it typically comes last in transition and therefore marks the start of real self-integration. Or, perhaps the post-op transition is a bit like the comprehansive examinations in graduate school, where a student learns of the weaknesses in their education up to that point, and also gets to compare what they should have learned by then, to what more they have to learn for their graduate degree, say a Doctorate, or in this case, mastery of the art of living as a woman. The pre-op time, is like the bachelor's degree, and after that, post-op, the weaknesses in your social preparation become obvious, and you are in for boith remedial learning and a program of advanced learning.

My concern is that you need sound case management and too labour intensive medical/psycholiogical work in the crucial year before GRS, which would normally include HRT, and also after. As far as I know, this is not generally available, or left to, too much of a degree, to the transperson, as a DIY project. The result is a large number of half-baked transitions, and a few tragic failures of transition. as well as transitions scarred by avoidable professional blunders, plus a few unecessary suicides. The cost of providing sufficent professional services to avoid all this would be, if the individual had to pay, astronomlical.

Anyway, it explains why too many post-op MtF's still talk like young guys mired in the obnoxious, show-off, pre-teen vulgarity stage of being a guy, perhaps betraying that by trying to get attention by grossing others out instead of womanly behaviour. (I have seen it all, and even right at the dinner table in the Asclepiade!) But then the provision of soft-services like handling social psychological issues, is easy to cut or simply neglect full provision of.

[Kathryn Martin]

i wish i could put better words to how profoundly it changed my transition experience....and i heartily recommend anyone that is a woman to get the surgeryKaitelyn,

It is difficult to understand this aspect without personal experience. I think this is why people feel uneasy around the subject. I also think that you put your finger on the central point "...anyone that is a woman...". In a sense this thread is all about knowing yourself. The question is never "am I trans - something" but "am I a woman?" The unsavory truth is, that there are people post transition (even without surgery) who have entered the wasteland will do anything to get back across the bridge they burnt. There are also post surgery persons who have created by the surgery an incongruence and disfigurement that did not exist before.

What I want people to understand is that going this path cannot be undertaken lightly, the consequences are too dire. But if you know yourself before taking the hard road, you will succeed.

Rhianna,

Assumptions are the daily companion of every human being. For instance you assume certain things about me that lead you to react either defensive or aggressive towards me, yet you, in fact, know very little about me. So you assume. I had the grace and courtesy to at least flag the assumption I made to invite English Rose to correct me if I was wrong.

[LaurenB]

Right on Rogina! Balance.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Right on Rogina! Balance.

OH i see...so now this thread is turning into a less than trannier than thou thread...

[stefan37]

I would really hate this thread to disintegrate into a holier than whatever you want to label yourself thread. I agree I have seen many posts from members all of a sudden having this epiphany they want to be a woman for one reason or the other. They have had little or no therapy, no previous communication with their partners and undue duress because they can not express in dress how they feel. I could be wrong and it is my opinion that those that come to these conclusions are married for a significant time with children. And in many cases many do think there lives will be better after transition without thinking through the entire process. They agonize over the decision to start hrt, get elctrolysis, deal with the possible loss of their family, and they will post 6 months later commiserating about these same issues. I think many have this fantasy of what being a woman should entail. But the reality of it is that it is extremely hard to make these decisions and to act and follow through.

The value I see in threads like this one and others that lay out the stark reality and brutality of transition is that the facts are laid out in glaring brilliance for all those not blinded to realize the importance of your decisions. I got from Kathryn's op was you should thoroughly examine yourself and your motivations for what it is you desire. For quite a long time before I started therapy I started to express myself as I felt I should have been born, but not trying to go over the edge so as not bring my masculinity into question. For a long time I felt i was on a runaway train without no end in sight. It was easy to get lost in the fog. I was scared and had no idea what I was doing or even where I was going. That was then and this is now. With the help of this forum with its stark reality, my therapist, electrolysis and hrt I have a much better idea where I am going. If I thought I could stop where I am and I found balance I would be extremely happy, the truth for is it is not enough and I know I must move forward. A big consideration is the financial end and i have some thoughts how I might solve them. the reality for me is even if I were to stop where I am my marriage dynamic and my interpersonal relationships will no longer be as they were, but forever changed.

If I could take a blue pill and all my dysphoria would cease and I would have no further thought about gender in-congruence, at my age and investment of male life I would gladly ingest it and leave this entire mess behind. Unfortunately no such solution exists and the only way I can find relief is to undertake the arduous process of transition. I am under no illusions how hard, mentally, physically, and financial it will be. thank god 2 of my most prevalent character traits are perseverance and resolve. I have already incurred losses , that have yet to manifest how severe. I have no idea how my future will be, I can only live in the present and fluidly plan for what I would like my future to be. That I have no illusions. It is funny I used to fantasize how nice it would be to have breasts and I was ambivalent about my penis. Well 8 months into hrt I no longer fantasize about breasts as I am starting to develop them along with the discomfort and pain that accompanies breast growth. Regarding my penis since it does not function like it used to I am feeling much different about is removal. I have always wanted my testis removed so no difference in that thinking. My point is my thinking has and continues to change as I progress.

My experience may be similar to others but it is my own and the path I take while similar will be unique to me. As far as overthinking things I tend to do the opposite, I tend to underthink, but as it pertains to transition the prudent course with its sometimes irreversible ramifications is to over analyze and then make your decision. But a decision one MUST MAKE to avoid paralysis. You can not perform the same actions over and over and expect a different result. Something must change to effect change.

[emma5410]

I am in the sixth week of my RLE. I know, I have barely begun. I am 54 and I have been aware of issues with my gender since being a small child. I spent much of my life thinking I was just a failed man. I was not aware of the idea of being transsexual. I lived most of my life without the internet. Did I feel suicidal through all those years. No. I coped as best I could. In the original post is seems to suggest that if you only felt suicidal in the last two years then how can you be transsexual. That seems nonsense to me. If I had felt suicidal before I would either be dead or transitioned long ago. I do not believe that is how it works. You live a life of confusion and denial. You fight yourself and deny yourself because to not do so means that you invite disaster. Rejection and ridicule. The fear kept me living as a man. I have lived a life with no friendships outside of work and with no relationships of any kind. A price I gladly paid to keep my secret and my place in society. I lived with the shame, guilt and self loathing.
Two years ago for reasons I only partly understand I lost my ability to cope. I tried to carry on as a man. I have spent the last 18 months in therapy. I have been declared TS by psychiatrists who I have told my story to. Was it really my story? I often wondered if I was rewriting my life from a transsexual perspective. Making the facts fit the narrative. It is hard to be honest with yourself. I spent a long time agonising over whether I was TS. On the one hand it made sense of my life. It explained what I had long felt to be my inadequacies. There was no shame in being a failure as a man if I was really a woman. And I did have strong feminine feelings. I hated my body. Especially my penis. I crossdressed from the age of 5. On the other hand I was terrified of transitioning. Eventually I accepted that I was TS and resolved all my negative feelings.
Now I am about to start week seven. I am happy as a woman. The stress and anxiety I have lived with all my life has gone. The constant, never ending, pretending is over.
Now I am me. But I still wonder. Not if I am TS and have done the right thing but what comes next. Am I really a woman or something in between. What is a woman. Who am I. Now that the drama and stress leading up to going full time has ended I feel flat. I have to start a living my life and it is not easy. I am discovering that living 24/7 is completely different from anything I had previously experienced. I have escaped the sinking ship but in some ways I am adrift unsure of what comes next.

[EnglishRose]

Right Lea...

i'd add this thought...perhaps it would make a person feel better if instead of saying the "real transition begins after ..." with "yet another transition happens after..."
chickens and eggs are totally different things and they can be discussed without reference to which came first..post srs life is different

To me that seems quite an important distinction and much more palatable. Of course I can appreciate that life post surgery is profoundly different and apologize for flying off the handle, as it were.

Note I am very eager in pursuing my own GRS as I absolutely need it.

[Rianna Humble]

The original poster has requested that this thread be closed