Any legal issue using ladies room?

[Kelly in OC]

Just wondering if there is any legal issue for using ladies room in public places like restaurants or movie theaters when dressing up? Would like to try but don't want anyone call the police on me or anything like that.

[Rianna Humble]

As I understand it, the legal situation varies from one jurisdiction to the next. On the other hand, if you need to use the restroom then you should use the one for the gender you are presenting. Do it with confidence and don't stare or say too much and I doubt that you will have a problem.

[Debglam]

Rianna is correct and also, to a limited extent, individual businesses can set their own policy. I am assuming that OC means that you are in California. You generally can use the restroom of the gender that you are presenting as. Do your business and move on though. To be brutally honest, if you creep people out in the ladies room you are going to make it harder for the next transperson that needs to use it. If you are really uncomfortable or think that you can't handle possibly waiting in line with a bunch of GG's to use a stall, then find an individual use restroom.

[sandra-leigh]

There can be legal issues, but it depends on the jurisdiction. Is "OC" Orange County? If so the Gender Nondiscrimination Act might apply (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/10/california-transgender-laws_n_1004109.html).

There are many locations that do not have trans-rights laws, but also do not actually have any laws against using the other bathroom. In such locations, the catch-all "disturbing the peace" may be applied, or property owners such as mall management companies might choose to use their private property rights to ban any individual (and basically they can ban for any reason that is not specifically prohibited in law, and it can take a lawsuit for them to even tell you the official reason you were banned).

The province I live in has trans rights laws (as of last year) but does not have gender presentation laws (I haven't seen why not, as gender presentation had been highly recommended for protection.) So a trans person would in theory be protected using the washroom appropriate for their gender, but a cross-gender would possibly not be.

[Rogina B]

In and out..Wash your hands though and check your self in the mirror,and you are done and gone before anyone cares!!

[NathalieX66]

In New Jersey, transgender folks are protected by law to use the bathroom of their choice. The key words in the law are gender identity and gender expression..

So far, I have never had a problem using the womens room in NJ, New York, or Pennsylvania either.

[Jilmac]

I believe each state sets it's own rules on use of public restrooms but as it has been stated in past threads you should use the room specific to the gender you present. But there must be some common sense involved such as; ALWAYS SIT, don't linger take care of business, wash up, and get out. The less attention you call to yourself, the easier it will be and much less chance of any complaints.

[Vickie_CDTV]

The laws can vary greatly from state to state, and locality to locality. It is a good idea to investigate the laws in the area you plan to visit, if you can even find the information. There are laws protecting us in some areas, but they may not protect you from harassment or other trouble.

People's opinions on this vary, but really the safest answer for someone who is nervous is: Use a single user (gendered or unisex) restroom, if at all possible; this will make the issues around using the restroom dressed (whether it is the designated male or female restroom) moot. If you know where you are going, it is a good idea to check out the restroom facilities before you go dressed.

[I Am Paula]

There's always a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Most people would have no problem with trans women using the ladies room. The may enact the letter of the law if you were being a nuisance, lewd, obscene etc. The same would apply to sameone in the 'right' washroom.
Even tho' ladies use the washroom in groups, if you are with other trans girls, in a white bread place, use the washrooms one at a time. Why provoke the status quo.-Celeste

[sandra-leigh]

Unfortunately some people do Make An Issue. Sometimes it is the GG's "there was a guy in there!"; sometimes it is the store / mall staff liking to push their weight around and assuming that the GG's will consider it a problem when they don't. And you know that sometimes it is racism or classism that triggers the concern, the "he looked like he was up to no good" claim.

But, yup, Trouble is always lurking. Like the fairly transitioned MTF visiting a hospital for a transition-related appointment, went to the female washroom (in according to her gender and her presentation), only to be given a citation for her trouble, with the person refusing to listen to explanations. The city the hospital was in had no gender protection ordinance, but in fact the hospital organization fell under gender protection rules, so the incident should never have happened, but it did (and the citation was eventually cancelled). But the next hospital over, run by a different organization that did was not required to follow those policies, even the doctor's plea that that was indeed the proper washroom for the patient would not have been enough...

[Beverley Sims]

Get in, get out and under no circumstances, act weird or militant.
Works for me and unisex and disabled toilets are my first choice.
I have no reason toassert my perceived womanhood.

[Eryn]

I'm a tall girl and have never had a problem with restrooms. I go in, do my business, wash my hands, check myself in the mirror, and leave, just as a normal GG would do. I don't use the unisex "family" restrooms because doing so would call more attention to myself than simply acting normal and using the room that matches my presentation.

Kelly, in California you are legally protected in using whatever restroom you feel you need to use. The only danger is that Joe the Mall Cop might not be well versed in the finer points of gender law. Avoid Joe if you can.

Frankly, my biggest worry when using the Ladies' room is finding a clean stall with a supply of paper.

[biggirlsarah]

In the U.k. I believe that the situation is , and this is not based on any legal knowledge what so ever, being that if you are dressed and use the ladies it is perfectly alright unless someone makes a complaint and the police are called then the transgendered person is likely to be charged with a breach of the peace, then again if a transgendered person were to use the mens room the if someone complains then you are open to a possible charge of soliciting, this is my understanding, so I tend to use the unisex disabled toilet it seems to be the safest bet when out.

[stephNE]

I think it varies from locality to locality. In Virginia they have a couple laws that could apply. One is called "disturbing the peace" and the police can use it basicaly against anyone for just about anything. The other prohibits anyone from concealing their identity in public. Obviously written to stop masked bank robbers, but dressing as a woman could be considered as a disguise if they wanted to.

[linda allen]

Just wondering if there is any legal issue for using ladies room in public places like restaurants or movie theaters when dressing up? Would like to try but don't want anyone call the police on me or anything like that.

If you really want to know, you will have to check with the police in the town or city you plan on using the ladies rest room in. Laws are different from one jurisdiction to another.

[StephanieDragg]

Laws vary state to state, here If you are in Michigan, you are required by law to use the restroom represented on your drivers license

[linda allen]

... The other prohibits anyone from concealing their identity in public. Obviously written to stop masked bank robbers, ..........

Many of these laws were passed as a result of the KKK. They often wore masks while doing their deeds.

[Lorileah]

If you really want to know, you will have to check with the police in the town or city you plan on using the ladies rest room in. Laws are different from one jurisdiction to another.

"Hello Podiunk police, is this an emergency?"

"Yes, I need to use the restroom and I need to know if I can use the ladies room?"

"I am sorry but that is reserved you will have to go to Farfield and use the women's room there "

:)

[Nicole Erin]

I once clogged up the toilet so bad that they had to call a plumber and they threatened to litigate for the cost of the repairs.

[Loni]

if you do not feel right or the air is not all that friendly go to a single use restroom. the back of ALL walmarts have this "family room"
get to lock the door behind you. some ff places have single use as well, as the very fue remaining service stations. and even the gas stations with a (cough) "food" store in them. have single use rooms.

but i have found law or not just acting like a lady gets you a no problem deal.
but there is always that woman who will give you trouble. but they are very far away most of the time.
but just get in, do, and get out.

pending a weird law that is a catch all deal (and all states and counties/city's have them) there is nothing wrong with any using a restroom.

.
.

[CynthiaD]

As I understand it, in Texas a man may not enter the ladies room without an invitation, and there seems to be some confusion about what constitutes an invitation. I've never had the occasion to use the ladies room, so I'm just repeating what I've read.

[Lorileah]

As I understand it, in Texas a man may not enter the ladies room without an invitation, .
I think maybe you are talking about a different definition. This is probably more about entering the domicile of a woman, not the restroom
Here is what the ACLU has to say on this (which really doesn't clear anything up)


Does the law protect a transgender person’s right to use the restroom consistent with his or her gender identity?

There’s no clear answer because very few courts have considered this question. The Minnesota Supreme Court has ruled that even a law prohibiting gender identity discrimination does not necessarily protect an individual’s desire to use a gender identity-appropriate restroom at work. In a non-workplace context, a New York appeals court has ruled that it is not sex discrimination to prevent transgender people from using gender identity-appropriate restrooms in a building housing several businesses.

Some government agencies, however, make clear that denying transgender people the right to use a gender identity- appropriate restroom violates their nondiscrimination law. The San Francisco Human Rights Commission, for example, requires businesses and public places to allow all persons to use the restroom of their gender identity so long as they have a current piece of ID that contains the gender marker that corresponds with the facility the person wants to use. Likewise, the New York City Human Rights Commission has issued regulations stating that a business that refuses to allow a transgender person to use a gender identity-appropriate restroom may be violating the city’s nondiscrimination law.

Many businesses, universities and other public places are installing single-use, unisex restrooms, which alleviate many of the difficulties that transgender people experience when seeking safe restroom access.

[socalcutie]

In OC in public places you're pretty well safe. Just get in and out and don't make a scene. Also be sure you can pass fairly well. If you're obviously just a man in a dress you're more likely to attract a kind of attention you don't want.

[Miriam-J]

Guidance is available on-line, and it's good to consult these sources before heading out to a new place:
http://www.transgenderlaw.org/ndlaws/index.htm
http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/restroom-access-for-transgender-employees (with link to local jurisdiction specifics)

Still, no law will protect you from loud-mouthed, prejudiced folks who just want to make your life miserable. Exercise caution at all times.

Miriam

[Samantha B L]

As a few of my forum freinds know,I'm a published freelance writer under the pseudonym of Samantha Byrne Leyte(Samantha B L). I have a article coming out in just about 4 or 5 days in the UK transgender magazine(online)called Frock. The article is all about women's restrooms and my experiences with them. I have a lot of information about women's restrooms mostly in southern Illinois and in St.Louis,Mo.. I use them ocaisionally. I go in,do my business and get out Best to use the women's when the crowd at a store,supermarket or movie theatre is at low ebb and it's best you be looking fairly passable. There is that offchance you could get some sort of police charge hung on you,or at least you could always have the embarrassment of someone hollering "hey you,get out". Generally speaking,women's restrooms are nicer than men's. Use them,but with caution.

[Leah Lynn]

Here in the cornpatch, um, Iowa, In an establishment doing business with the public, you use the restroom of the gender you are presenting as. Private establishments and businesses not readily open to the public, may set their own rules.

[SarahBJackson]

My CD/TG support group had a meeting with a couple police officers a few months ago for a Q&A. The issue of bathrooms came up. The officers said that they'd never arrested a person for using a bathroom. So, use the one that you are presenting and, at least around here, you will be fine!

Good luck.

[lingerieLiz]

Several years ago at the old Astrodome in Houston a woman went into the men's because she had to go. I believe she received a ticket for it. The funny part, none of the guys cared that much. Anyway all the politicians got involved and demanded more tolilets for women. It was in the local papers and on the talk shows for quite awhile.

[linda allen]

"Hello Podiunk police, is this an emergency?"

"Yes, I need to use the restroom and I need to know if I can use the ladies room?"

"I am sorry but that is reserved you will have to go to Farfield and use the women's room there "

:)

I was thinking that it would be best to check with the police far in advance of actually having to use the restroom.

Best would be a letter or e-mail because that way you will have a written response to show anyone who might question you.

[Paulette]

I have been going to mainstream venues for several years and have never had a problem using the bathroom of my gender expression. As noted earlier get in and get out, it is not a club house. You do not receive a merit badge for using the ladies room. Be prepared to stand in line, your friendly smile is your best defense against anyone saying anything hurtful. I have chatted with fellow line standers and received compliments on my outfit or simply one piece of the outfit. Once I receive a comment I will always return the favor. In California you can use the restroom of the gender you are presenting and expect no problems with the law. I wore a badge with my panties and bra for many years. A little known fact a padded bra will prevent nipple chafing from a ballistic vest.

[Rollcasket]

if you act like you don't belong in there then it will make everyone nervous and that's a big no no. Go with confidence, touch up your make up if you need to then go about your business. No need to start a party in there :P

[RebeccaPitt]

Well in Ontario Canada there is no problem with using a women's washroom if you are dressed enfemme, thanks to the following addition to the human rights code.

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/gender-identity

Go Ontario!!!!

[linda allen]

Well in Ontario Canada there is no problem with using a women's washroom if you are dressed enfemme, thanks to the following addition to the human rights code.

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/gender-identity


In California you can use the restroom of the gender you are presenting and expect no problems with the law.

One has to wonder though what defines "dressed enfemme" or "the gender you are presenting".

We have members here who go out in public in prehaps a dress and blouse, but with a beard or mustach and bald head. Part male and part female. How would the law feel about that?

What about the crossdresser who tries her best, but is obviously a male and can be read at 30 feet?

What happens when you walk into the ladies room dressed and a mother with her three year old daughter sees you and runs out sreaming at the top of her lungs "There's a man in the ladies room!" ?

It's not black and white, there's a grey area.

[I Am Paula]

Just to be on the safe side. Even in a mall, dept. store washrooms are usually deserted. If you use the public toilets, use the ones the furthest from the food court. Less kids. For the timid, gas stations are prob. the safest. Most are still single seaters.

[immindy]

What happens when you walk into the ladies room dressed and a mother with her three year old daughter sees you and runs out sreaming at the top of her lungs "There's a man in the ladies room!" ?

[immindy]

oops ment to respond to the quotation ... that i just posted

I was using the ladies room and a mother came in with her 4 year old daughter and went into the stall next to mine. The little girl peaked under the stall and looked straight at me , I smiled . She said very loadly "mommy ther is a lady in there " .

I breathed a sigh of relief :)

[Robbin_Sinclair]

Just wondering if there is any legal issue for using ladies room in public places like restaurants or movie theaters when dressing up? Would like to try but don't want anyone call the police on me or anything like that. The quick answer to that would probably be no.

Reason: There may or may not have to be a law that designates men's and ladies's room but no law prohibiting a patron from using the other one. It would be comparable to serving minors in a bar. A law says minors shall not be served (analogy, an establish must provide restroom) but there also a law that says it cannot be sold to minors and minor shall not buy (analogy, men are not use use the ladies room).

We know the first laws exists, the establishment shall or shall not. But only in the case of minors does the second law exist. Customers shall or shall not. Whether there is an gender neutral law or something else probably would not apply, if there is no law against it, in the first place.

Do you ever see a sign that reads ONLY PERSONS WHO ARE LADIES MAY USE THE LADIES ROOM? Probably not. If you ever did see such a law, it might reference an existing law or it would be the establishment making a policy, both of which are unlikely.

[linda allen]

......... There may or may not have to be a law that designates men's and ladies's room but no law prohibiting a patron from using the other one...
I have seen and read such a law. A law stating that it is illegal for a person over the age of six years old to enter a restroom designated for the opposite sex.

It was a few years ago that I read this and it may or may not have been changed by now. I'm not sure but I believe it was in Maryland.

Note: Be vary wary of legal advice obtained from non-lawers on an Internet forum. Be very wary.

[Vicky_Scot]

It may surprise you to know that there is NO law in the UK that defines who may, or may not, use a public toilet; provided that a person is using it ONLY for it's intended use, anyone may use any public toilet. No offence is committed if a man uses a female toilet (or a woman, vice versa) for those purposes.

Most Police forces take the simple view; if you're dressed as a woman (and using it only for it's intended use), you may use the female toilets; if you're dressed as a man (and using it only for it's intended use) you may use the male toilets, regardless of actual gender or anatomy.

Transsexual people are a slightly different issue; a transsexual woman in transition is REQUIRED by her treatment protocols to use female facilities at all times(and vice versa for transsexual men, of course) regardless of her stage of treatment or external appearance.

[Samantha B L]

Well in Ontario Canada there is no problem with using a women's washroom if you are dressed enfemme, thanks to the following addition to the human rights code.

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/gender-identity

Go Ontario!!!!

That's great news Rebecca. I'm in the USA and I prefer to use the women's if possible.

Samantha

[Nikki A.]

I go to the bathroom as I am presenting. Never had a problem as of yet. This past Sunday I went out with two GG friends and we ended up at Chinese buffet. The only question I asked of the one that went ahead of me was how clean was the ladies room. They already knew which room I was going to use (from a previous trip out).

[TessaGirl]

Do wish I could get away with always using the female public lavatories! Unfortunately as others have said, there is always likely to be someone who complains. Have occasionally accidentally wandered in to the other side. The first time was in a department store several years ago on an extremely hot day, enough to make you feel dazed. That time, I just got out very quickly. As for the other incident, would rather not go into details but I just got politely escorted out and that was it. On the other hand, I was once going to the (male) facilities at a supermarket with my leather shoulder bag, ladies winter coat etc, and a man cleaning the toilets or something, directed me towards the female side. He seemed surprised I was'nt going there. As an aside, the practice of urinating in the open air in public is not very hygienic, especially in busy town centres! It's also I believe illegal in the UK. However it is especially common here at least among drunk males on a night out. If anyone was crossdressing and heavy drinking in a bar or club, would it change your willingness to do that?

[Robbin_Sinclair]

....Note: Be vary wary of legal advice obtained from non-lawers on an Internet forum. Be very wary.

Yes, I agree, Linda Allen. Don't take advice from non-lawyers, especially if they are not from where you live. Sorry.

[GeminaRenee]

For the timid, gas stations are prob. the safest.

...not to mention the foulest. Maybe it's different across the border, but here, I wouldn't use a gas station even in guy mode unless it was an absolute emergency.