5 Guys Burgers.

[Tracii G]

Got read at 5 Guys tonight and it got sort of intense.
Walked in placed my order and went and sat down.
Across the room were 4 guys that looked like your everyday rural good old boys.
I could tell they weren't from my town by the sports letter jacket one boy was wearing.Lets say mountain boys with attitude.
I was in full enfemme mode and minding my own business and they kept looking over at me and smirking and giggling.
The burger guy called my order number and I went up and got my food.
He said ma'am I saw those guys looking over at you if you want me too I'll keep an eye on them for you.
I said that would be nice thank you I think they don't like trans people.
Well I sat there and started eating my fries (cajun BTW so yummy) one of the guys got up to refill his drink I kept a close eye on him and not looking directly at him.
I saw a reflection in the window of the two other boys getting up and heading my way and they were laughing.
The one who refilled his drink was coming over too.
They made their way over and I stood up and said hey guys you need to back off OK?
The one I will call Bubba said we don't like fag&%ts where I come from.
I told him if you don't like it or me get in your car and go home then.
The lady 2 tables over said you boys need to leave she wasn't bothering you.
My husband is behind you do you want him to show the way out the hard way?
Her Husband was standing behind them at that point in his Marine BDU's.
They left quickly on their own.
Always keep your eyes and ears open ladies it could save your life.

P.S. this was the closest call I have ever had in my town.

[bobbimo]

So, Here is my dilemma.
Your all enfemme, trying to be the girl and the situation presents itself where your male kick a** mode comes out.
How do you deal with it?

[Tracii G]

That part of me is always there bobbimo.
I have been trained to access threats and take care of business If I have to.
Standing up at least I can fight if need be.
That is part of my dark side that will always remain.
The Marine and his wife were really nice people and stayed until I left.
I thanked them both for looking out for me.
She told me they support trans people and hate to see anyone get treated the way those guys were treating me.
She gave me a hug as we left.

[Stephanie Miller]

In my mind the counter person needs a nice tip for the offer. (At leasst call the manager and put in a good word about the worker) And definatly I would have bought lunch for the marine and his wife. Semper fi.

(If standing up and fighting for who you are is a dark side...... then I raised both my daughters to be dark.
But I don't think it's a dark side..... It's a correct side ;) )

[whowhatwhen]

If it's any consolation, maybe they got into an accident and died on the way home or at the very least got really, really hurt.

[NathalieX66]

Tracii, I'm so glad you're safe. Things like this will eventually happen to us all.

Now you have a story to tell. Thanks for sharing.

Two years ago, I was with my Tri-Ess group at an all night diner that happened to be near a military base and a drag strip ( the car kind). It was past midnight, and needless to say, some of the Billy Bobs that came from the drag races were not pleased with the half dozen dudes in dresses and wigs at the table nearby. The usual seething "f******" comments they yelled were heard by everybody in the restaurant. Fortunately, and by miracle, the restaurant staff told them to leave. The restaurant owner is always very nice to us.

This is the only bad experience I have had so far, after three years of going out in public dressed as female.

If it's any consolation, I was out at a restaurant last week with two of my friends who are transsexual, and we got nothing but great food and service.......but that's New York City.

[stacycoral]

Miss Tracii, girl i glad everything work out ok, sure hate to see a pretty girl like you get hurt, by some stupid kids, hugs girlfriend

[stephNE]

Tracii, I am so glad you are OK. I am always afraid of that. I am proud for you. I wouldn't be able to fight back. Take care, ...hugs...

[Tracii G]

Thanks so much for the nice words everyone. :hugs:
The main reason I posted this is to stress the point be aware of everything around you.
I have already Emailed 5 guys management and told them about it.

[KateSpade83]

Well, that's one reason why I don't go everywhere dressed as a woman, I only do this when shopping for women's clothes that I have to try on. If I did go out dressed often I'd make sure I'm very passable.

[Tracii G]

Kate it was a good make up day too but some can just read you especially homophobic jerk offs.
They got what they deserved in the end.Fear and shame in a public place in front of 30+ people.
I'm sure they pray on trans folk in their little town with out much reprisals which is really sad.
If there had been a policeman present they could have very well been taken to jail due to our fairness ordinance here.

As far as passing the guy that took my order perceived me as female and the lady who took up for me said she really didn't know I wasn't a female until I stood up and told them to back off.

[Rogina B]

If you hadn't have stood up,I wonder what they really would have done. It would have been assault with many witnesses..

[Lynn Marie]

Wow, scary story with a great ending. Went to a 5 guys a couple weeks ago and ate way too much. A meal there is easily enough for two, maybe three! Lot's of what looked like big eaters there.

[Tammy Nowakowski]

Tracii, I am so glad you are OK

[Sara Jessica]

First of all, thank goodness you remained safe....


That part of me is always there bobbimo.
I have been trained to access threats and take care of business If I have to.
Standing up at least I can fight if need be.
That is part of my dark side that will always remain.
The Marine and his wife were really nice people and stayed until I left.
I thanked them both for looking out for me.
She told me they support trans people and hate to see anyone get treated the way those guys were treating me.
She gave me a hug as we left.

...and that good people had your back. That would be the positive to take away from being witness to a grotesque negative in humanity.


Well, that's one reason why I don't go everywhere dressed as a woman, I only do this when shopping for women's clothes that I have to try on. If I did go out dressed often I'd make sure I'm very passable.

No, this is a cautionary tale to be aware and keep your head about you. What happened to Tracii is the exception, not the rule. But like any other woman out there, being a potential victim of violence is always possible...but still the exception. Being a victim of harassment is also possible...yet still the exception thank goodness.

Tracii's cautionary tale is for those of us who enjoy the mainstream like any other woman...like any other person out there. Whether part time in presentation or full time, we all get read by a few, some, most or all...even you Kate, I promise you. It comes with the territory. Yet it's no reason to fear being out amongst others. Just be aware of what's going on around you.

[Janie {3]

Don't know how anyone could mistake you for a guy.

[Emjay]

Wow Tracii, I'm really sorry you had to deal with that. Some people are just jackasses.

It's really cool that the guy working there and that couple stood up for you, gives me just a little glimmer of hope for humanity. :)

Definitely a reminder that we all need to be aware of what's going on around us. I'm so glad it didn't turn into something worse and that you are ok!

[Tracii G]

Sara makes a valid point even the best CD will tell you they get read a lot.
Janie Thank you.LOL and as Jessica Who says "yeah I'm a dude".

[flatlander_48]

If it's any consolation, maybe they got into an accident and died on the way home or at the very least got really, really hurt.

No, they just got uglier and dumber. Sad to say, you just can't fix stupid.

[lingerieLiz]

Why do bubbas think that guys dressed as girls can't fight. Neither can most other people in the world. I've had the pleasure of introducing several bubbas to an embarasing loss.

[Nikki50/50]

The one I will call Bubba said we don't like f****** where I come from.


LOL!!
Something similar happened to me here in Jersey. The guy in question said pretty much the same thing, invoking the obligatory guffaws from his fratboy groupies. My response, with a smile: "Well, that explains why you're here and not 'where you come from'..."

[Tracii G]

No, they just got uglier and dumber. Sad to say, you just can't fix stupid.

Exactly.Some people are beyond hope.
What they don't understand they fear and feel the need to ridicule.

LOL I was at a club years ago with a GG friend of mine and one country cowboy type said I don't like Fag&%ts so don't hit on me.
My GG friend said why would she? I wouldn't either, now go get on your pony and ride off.

[ArleneRaquel]

Darlin,
Its so good that are safe. Keep well & safe. HUGZ!

[vikki2020]

Well, morons will be morons, and that goes for all over. But, the fact that others stood up in your defense speaks more about how most people out there think. I see this as a positive story! Especially,that Marine,and his wife!

[Beverley Sims]

It is unfortunate that living as we do we do have to think and run fast sometimes.
The trouble is some places we accept as safe are not always as they seem.

[PaulaQ]

I'm glad you are OK. I'm sure that was terrifying. It is a good cautionary tale, though.

[Tracii G]

More aggravating than terrifying really I hate to deal with stupid people.
The Marine and his wife were awesome to do what they did.Apparently she called his cell when he was in the bathroom and told him what was going on.
I'm sure glad she did.
When you get in a knock down drag out fight no matter who started it all parties end up in jail until they sort it all out and I sure didn't want that.

[Barbara Ella]

Tracii, I am so glad you are safe and got through this. Kudos to the staff. I wonder what they might have done if the Marines had not landed when they did? You never know who will step up when needed.

The admonishment to stay alert and aware of surroundings is so sound, and also so hard to do at times. Thanks for sharing.

Barbara

[Samantha B L]

Hi Tracii,I had a close call years ago real late at night at a "parking lot" suburban cinema in a little town in southern Illinois about 5 miles from where I lived at the time. Southern Illinois ain't in the south but it's got a lot of Kentucky farmers and German farmers. My brother had taken me to the movies and I did my hair into a "Gloria Steinem" and I wore these incredible satiny tops. Under balloons and ice cream circumstances such as a 1958 shopping center this would've been acceptable. We stayed at the cinema real late watching a couple of repeats of whatever it was showing that night. This was in about 1975 or 1976. When the last movie showing ended long after midnight,people were moving slow out of their seats partly because the people who ran the cinema were dimming the lights way down and about to turn them off.




A couple of times during the shows I noticed about 5 guys near the front row and they seemed to be doing a lot of glancing,smiling and laughing at me. A couple of them pointed at me and one of them said "look at that asshole". They seemed like checkered shirt and cowboy hat types and I think they were probably drunk,but not heavily. Probably Pabst or Bud. They didn't look that intimidating but they were a little bit bigger than I was. So they were dimming the lights and my brother and I headed for the lobby exit and they seemed to be quickly following us. I know my brother would've pitched in on kicking their asses with me but we would've been totally outnumbered. Things were getting scary when we had nearly made our way to my brother's car the theatre was saving money on their electric bill and they turned off the parking lot lights. Those guys were about 60-70 feet away from us but they couldn't see us in the dark! So we were at the car anyway and got in and headed back home. There were a couple of other times when I've been hassled by rednecks,Tracii.

[Nicole Erin]

I would have been more fearful for the safety of the hillbillies than for Tracii. After she quickly took down the first one, the other three would have hurt themselves running away :D Tracii somehow strikes me as someone who doesn't take much crap and can take care of herself. I mean i wouldn't piss her off. I bet she could f*** someone up in quick order.

Folks - the fact is, bigots are shrinking in numbers and are being pushed into the same closet that they once kept everyone else in.

[nvlady]

I think it's just so nice that two strangers didn't give a damn what you were wearing and didn't like seeing someone hassled for no reason.

[Lorileah]

Well, that's one reason why I don't go everywhere dressed as a woman, I only do this when shopping for women's clothes that I have to try on. If I did go out dressed often I'd make sure I'm very passable.

Kate, I think you miss the point. It isn't where you shop or go. It isn't how "Passable" you think you are. It is that there are always morons out there who can and will try and assert their dominance on you. Tracii "passes" if you look at her photos. These guys were looking for trouble. The almost got it. There is no reason that anywhere we go people like that should become belligerent or violent.

[PaulaQ]

Kate, I think you miss the point. It isn't where you shop or go. It isn't how "Passable" you think you are. It is that there are always morons out there who can and will try and assert their dominance on you. Tracii "passes" if you look at her photos. These guys were looking for trouble. The almost got it. There is no reason that anywhere we go people like that should become belligerent or violent.

So true. This can happen anywhere, and to anybody, but girls like us are easy targets.

I have a non-CD story about something like this, but I don't think I can tell it without breaking multiple forum rules. Sorry. But suffice it to say - it can happen to anybody.

[AllisontheGoddess]

So, Here is my dilemma.
Your all enfemme, trying to be the girl and the situation presents itself where your male kick a** mode comes out.
How do you deal with it?

Well it looks like someone is just gonna have to see me with the hands then! (sorry for my urban slang, I get a lot of that from the area I work in. I felt it fit the situation lolol)

[Tracii G]

I have studied martial arts most of my life and still study a weapons form of Tia Chi known as Yang as well as I Chi Ching.
Funny story I had a seizure a little over a year ago and the DR told me I had two ER orderlies try to hold me down but I fought off the gurney and slammed one in the chest and knocked him across the room the other was 6'2" and I rolled him over my back and slammed him on the ground and went after him.
The nurse said she had never seen such a short guy manhandle two big guys that quick.
I apologized to the DR and I'm really sorry.LOL.
I did meet the 6'2" orderly a few weeks later and apologized to him as well. He laughed and said Bro' you are a bad bad man.you sure laid it on me.
We shook hands and he said show me how you did that. I said I don't know I wasn't aware when I did it.LOL

[PaulaQ]

I have studied martial arts most of my life and still study a weapons form of Tia Chi known as Yang as well as I Chi Ching.


Might've' been worth defending yourself ;)

[Tracii G]

That would have been more embarrassing I'm sure.

[PaulaQ]

That would have been more embarrassing I'm sure.
I know, horrible idea - I am full of horrible ideas. I feel quite certain that the county lockup is not where you'd want to end up while dressed...

[Tracii G]

No doubt Paula LOL.
Not a good place at all anytime.

[Angela Campbell]

Tracii, I was always the smallest one growing up, and add in the fact that I was always a bit more feminine than the other boys, I was always the target. I too ended up studying martial arts. One of my best friends father was the cheif of police on the nearby AFB and he got us trained by a little man who taught the AP's. I have rarely used it, but what he taught me that is the most useful is how to avoid a confrontation to begin with. I have the confidence to get out of a situation if needed but it is always better if I can just not be in one.

I am always worried that this kind of thing will happen one day. Some in this world just think it makes them look better if they belittle others. It is a shame.

[Stevie]

Tracy glad everything worked out. It's sad the way some people (morons) have to act. It's like they are trained to joke and be ridiculous when in fact they are being just plain rude. Especially if it is something that they feel doesn't fit in their so called perfect world.
Ever noticed that there always in a group. Even though you know how to fight the odds will always be against you. Sounded like it was 4 against one until the marine stepped in. Bullies don't like it when the odds start to even up.

[Erica Marie]

Tracii that is a sad story. But the bright side is that there many people who accept you and even that they dont know you personally are proud enough to watch your back. There are alot of good people in this world. Be strong and hope this kind of thing doesnt happen again.

[flatlander_48]

Exactly.Some people are beyond hope.
What they don't understand they fear and feel the need to ridicule.

LOL I was at a club years ago with a GG friend of mine and one country cowboy type said I don't like Fag&%ts so don't hit on me.
My GG friend said why would she? I wouldn't either, now go get on your pony and ride off.

And they all seem to need to share their opinions with us. Like it's something REALLY significant...

[Emma Beth]

Tracii, I'm glad you came out of that alright. Your story is a good tale of caution and also one of hope. The hope it gives is that there are others out there that can and will do the right thing. As a Navy vet myself, that Marine made me proud to have served my country.

Something I would like to say though.

I have always kept an eye out on my surroundings. It's something that is instinctive for me ever since I was about 9 or 10 years old. The reason is bullies on the school bus and in the community.

Being aware of ones surroundings is something everyone should do all the time when they go out, especially in today's world.

This skill has served me very well. While I was in the Navy stationed in Long Beach, California.

It allowed me to go visit a good friend frequently. My friend lived in Compton. I'm a confident caucasion man walking down the streets of one of the most dangerous areas of LA. Of course, I think I may have been left alone because the residents either thought I was one bad dude, or the craziest person in the world. In either case they didn't want to take any chances with me.
My point is that I stayed aware of my surroundings and avoided any potential trouble.

As a side note, my SO and I are looking into taking Haidong Gumdo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haidong_Gumdo) together. We can hardly wait.

By the way I read something on Facebook that a friend posted that rings so true.
"Even duct tape can't fix stupid."


Jamie

[STACY B]

Dammit girl ,,, I just read your post ,,LOL,,, Hell those little red neck boyz don't know how close they came from getting there little ass handed to them by what they hate the most ! I never worry about you Shorty T ,, That ol Burger joint aint nuttin like one of those mean ol truck stops ,, lol,, An ya say jr still had his high school jacket on ? Yak,,,Yak,,,Yak,,,, If you would have got up an kicked those pretty little heels off bubba an the 3 Jr's would had to go home an let Mamma change there Huggie's ,,Cuz fo sho they would have messed there selves . I know you would have Slapped knots on there heads faster than they could rub them !!!!


Cause She's a LADY !!!!!!!!!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Tracii, You just can't fix stupid.

[Jean Marie]

Tracii, I am a bit surprised that happened her in the city where we live, of course I know it can happen anywhere. But glad it turned out ok. Huggzz

[Aylineira]

You're definitely an inspiration. People like yourself that brave the waters each day are making headway for the rest of us. Glad nothing crazy happened though.

[BillieJoEllen]

Why do bubas think that guys dressed as girls can't fight. Neither can most other people in the world. I've had the pleasure of introducing several bubas to an embarasing loss.

Have you ever noticed that in some CD or TS shows or movies when fighting is involved the CDer is always the most 'macho'? Shes got the most wicked left hook or punching style.

[Ozark]

I had never been in a 5 Guys until last week. There is one in our town next to a favorite thrift store. It is in a strip mall next to a supercenter.

I've been watching calories but I knew I needed something to eat so I went into the restaurant and ordered a small fries. It took a long time to get it so I passed the time eating some salted in the shell peanuts but I didn't know what to do with the shells.

Some young men came in -- based on your description of your experience and description these were those guys' brothers.

Finally my fry order was ready--- the fry guy told me "I really loaded you up on fries!" Yes, the small cup was full of fries and after he put the cup of fries in the paper sack he filled the sack up with fries too.

My upbringing-- clean your plate, eat all your food, think of the poor starving kids in China--- fought a battle with my will power. My will power won, I didn't eat all the fries. Almost all of them I ate but not all of them. Oh well, I walked an extra mile that night. The fries were 'home-style' -- good but not great.

My clothes smelled like the restaurant after I left. I had to wash them when I got home they stunk so bad with the smell of fried food..... Now I know what the smell is in the thrift store--- the smell of frying permeates the thrift store.

[docrobbysherry]

Consider "randomness" when u go out dressed alone! If u go out dressed to uncontrolled venues, consider what COULD happen!

Going shopping at Macy's during the day? Or, to lunch at McD's in the city? What's the worst that can happen? You're not likely to have issues other than a fisheye or hear a chuckle at those places. (Be careful about which restroom u use at McD's!)

Heading out for dinner in the country? A club, bar, or tavern at nite? Consider what COULD happen. The type of people who mite be there! Then, walking back to your car late at nite.

Personally, I've been out late dressed alone. But, only at Disneyland, a dance at a big hotel, and often out WITH OTHER GIRLS! Disneyland and the dance were controlled enviornments. No worries about being me being accosted by unsavory characters as I was in Vegas late at nite! And, I feel safe when I'm with other girls.

If you're the type that welcomes danger and the unexpected, then go ahead. For me, I'm NOT interested in going out and having unpleasant or dangerous encounters. I dress to have fun, NOT to get stressed out and nervous about what mite happen next!

Think of the possibility of yourself being in the wrong place at the wrong time BEFORE u go out alone!

[Marleena]

Wow that is a scary situation Tracii! No doubt you can handle yourself but getting the police involved could go wrong. I fear the police aren't as a tolerant of TG people as they'd like you to believe. It's also nice to see that husband/wife team come to your aid. It gives one hope that there are some good people out there.

[monalisa]

Too bad you weren't a 10th degree black belt holder

[Tracii G]

Tracii, I am a bit surprised that happened her in the city where we live, of course I know it can happen anywhere. But glad it turned out ok. Huggzz

Yes Jean our town is a great place to be and most are very tolerant of the TG community.
Its a pretty big town with a good sized TG population heck even a gay Mayor!
These guys were from Beattyville and I know that area well my guess they were here for the basketball tournament.
Just best to stay aware of things around you.
Jean it was 5 guys out towards Hamburg.I have been to the Orange Leaf next door dozens of times.
This was an isolated incident with some out of towners.LOL


Too bad you weren't a 10th degree black belt holder
No just got as high as first brown which is almost a black belt but the color of the belt doesn't mean all that much.
When I was involved as a kid you only had one belt test a year nowadays they pump out black belts willy nilly at some schools.
My teacher Grandmaster Sin Kwang The' is a 14th degree black belt and was the youngest Grandmaster in 1500 years.
A very good teacher and a nice person too.

[Tara D. Rose]

Hi Tracii, I hate to hear that this happened to you too, I guess we all feel the same way. This story does teach us that we can all become a target almost anywhere. it's funny but I want to say what I would have done, but I won't.:laughing: you know the old saying, "I'd like to see them do ME like that" kind of thing. I'm just glad everything came out well for you.

Tara

[Tracii G]

Thanks Tara.
It was more a PSA than anything :)

[AllyCDTV]

Tracii, glad to hear things got resolved in the restaurant but sometimes they don't. Did you have someone keep an eye on you as you walked to your car? I would have been concerned that these morons might be waiting in the parking lot or following you in your car.

[flatlander_48]

You know, take a moment to think about this event from a bit different perspective...

The cretins involved here thought it was perfectly acceptable to harass someone of a sexual minority. They have been told, in effect, that we shouldn't exist and evidently they are OK with that. We are fair game and the treatment we receive reflects our status. So, where does this come from? Talk radio? Fundamentalist Christians? Conservative politicians? All of the above? I don't know, frankly. But, this notion should be at least as troubling as the incident itself.

[Angela Campbell]

anyway.....I like 5 guys burgers and hot dogs but they do not cook the frys long enough and they are wimpy and very greasy...yuchhhhh.

[Kalista Jameson]

You know, take a moment to think about this event from a bit different perspective...

The cretins involved here thought it was perfectly acceptable to harass someone of a sexual minority. They have been told, in effect, that we shouldn't exist and evidently they are OK with that. We are fair game and the treatment we receive reflects our status. So, where does this come from? Talk radio? Fundamentalist Christians? Conservative politicians? All of the above? I don't know, frankly. But, this notion should be at least as troubling as the incident itself.

I'd have to say no to those examples. I myself am a conservative, Christian who listens to a lot of Rush, Medved, et al and in the last two decades of doing so have not seen these types of dehumanizing values embraced or encouraged by anyone in the conservative camp, though many exploit others into believing so. I have many people in my circle with the same political views as me who would find the type of behavior exhibited by those men to be horrible and cringe every time those types get associated with the political right wing. As with everything every human being faces, sterotypes abound.

Those men, regardless of what they claim to be, speak only for themselves. The hate they promote comes from elsewhere. It's the human factor coming into play. Men of these types are self serving in their efforts to make themselves out superior. Nothing to do with opposing political or faith matters from my perspective.

Cheers,

Kalista

[Lady Panda]

Tracii,
I am so glad you are Ok..and safe.

One thing I don't think anyone remembers the old adage ...the one that usually starts the bashing...Is the one that secretly wants to be the one that is doing the activity that they are making fun of....

I think the leader secretly wants to dresss in public ....and doesnt have the b***s to go out dressed and wouldn't look half as good.

Just saying...

Take care of you.

[Lorileah]

I know it seems like I am over moderating this thread but please do not post things that advocate a violent response to the situation. The forum does not condone violence and even though Tracii was placed in a situation that no one should be in and the threat of violence was there, the outcome was good. We should not imply that that kind of action by someone else should be met with similar violence.

Any posts from here on that advocate a violent response will be deleted and not edited. Thanks

And Tracii, I am happy it all worked out OK. I will disagree with Marleena on this and say that the police WERE the correct response. In most states there are hate crime laws. And even if the personal feelings of the police are against the TG community, they are sworn to protect ALL citizens.

Addendum: Don't start dissing any other group here either regardless of political leanings or religion...Got it????

[Annaliese]

Great positive story, the fact that you had the burger guy on your side and the Marine and his wife. Yes three A??? holes. Yes we always have to keep an eye out, this give me hope.

[Tracii G]

I always try to defuse the situation no matter what mode I'm presenting.
One thing martial arts will teach you is to stay calm don't react unless you have to.
I did see them drive off so I wasn't worried.
It has nothing to do with talk radio I'm sure just bad upbringing more than anything.
Lets leave political views out of it so the mods don't shut down the thread.
Some of this info might help some sisters of ours that are just starting out.

[Leah Lynn]

I used to teach ladies' self defense classes. Rule #1; ALWAYS be aware of your surroundings. Trouble rarely comes alone. Still teach Ladies' CCW classes. Rule#1; Condition One; be aware of your surroundings. You done good and kudos to all that stood up for you.

Glad you're safe, girl

Leah

[lingerieLiz]

It doesn't really mater guy or girl or how observent you are it can happen to anyone. I watched one night as some guys were checking out a girl at a club. One started harrasing her about going out with him ignoring her lack of interest. Eventually I interceded, I have a habit of doing that, and he turned his attention to me which was a mistake on his part.

[flatlander_48]

Addendum: Don't start dissing any other group here either regardless of political leanings or religion...Got it????

There are 2 things that happen. Conditioning is one. Legitimization is the other. If the conditioning is strong enough, it works to shape our opinions. However, legitimization removes the barriers that work to limit our actions. This is an important part as it can lead us to do something that we wouldn't otherwise.

Every group has a fringe that has taken the beliefs of that group to the edge. They still claim to be aligned with the group in some tenuous fashion, but what they believe is far removed from the mainstream for that group. In this context, you would have to wonder about the things that Rev. Fred Phelps or Michael Savage, for example, say in public. Many believe that seeing violence on TV, in movies and in video games can open the door for violent behavior on a personal level. Similarly, is it possible that inflammatory rhetoric can legitimize aggressive behavior?

From the descriptions here, it sounds like the perpetrators of this incident are not leaders of western critical thought. What they did was bullying behavior, but with a twist in that it was specifically directed at a sexual minority. Somewhere that linkage was made that this behavior was OK.

Note: I was not attempting to disparage anyone with either message. On the other hand, if these and other acts were just random B/S, we wouldn't have the need to define and track hate crimes.

[Stephanie Miller]

Even among ourselves it starts to raise its head. Just like the "bubbas" in Tracies post that resorted to demeaning name calling..... we have people here on this site that feel a need to pigeon hole others. I agree with Lorileah. It needs to stop!

flatlander_48 & Badtranny .. Call it what you want "Conditioning or Legitimization" it's still taking the choice, or direction, of another person that differs from your own and putting it on public spectacle in a demeaning way. It's still just plain wrong.

I too am very conservative christian, I too have my political view points as well as my bias's. My radio is on every day. Doesn't make me any less of a person - any more than your leanings or persuasions (no matter how mainstream or fringe they may be) makes you.
Yes I am out to my family, friends and don't see where that matters one iota. Are you? Does this make one a better or worse person?

My grandmother always told me "If you can't say something nice.. don't say anything at all"
And now I went and blew it :sad:

[BillieAnneJean]

I carefully control where I go and when I go there. I also put a lot of effort in to my appearance. Traci obviously does also. I have had snickers or knowing looks before. One day I will be confronted with something like this. I will stand and yell in my best girls voice: "Ladies and Gentlemen. These guys want to assualt me. May we please take a vote? How many would like to see (insert number here) brave guys beat up one poor soul? Those in favor please raise your hands." I would make it LOUD. I bet the bullies loose the vote.
Unless a guy has tried crossdressing, he will have no idea how much fun it is.
This is a wonderful site and I would like to thank whomever hosts it and all the ladies who provide kind words and help. Thank you!
Billie

[Jocee]

Sorry this happened to you, but also encouraged that others stood with you....

[Tracii G]

It was just one of those things that happen in life and you have to be ready to deal with it.

[NV Susan]

Tracii, so glad this came out well for you. Your so right on about knowing your surroundings and being aware.

Guess this world will always have "knuckle draggers" walking around...

[Rachel Morley]

The lady 2 tables over said you boys need to leave she wasn't bothering you. My husband is behind you do you want him to show the way out the hard way? Her Husband was standing behind them at that point in his Marine BDU's. Apparently she called his cell when he was in the bathroom and told him what was going on. I'm sure glad she did.

First off, I am so glad you are ok. Gosh me too! That was so lucky that the Marine and his wife were there! Looks like the server also had your back and would have called the police but as you said "When you get in a knock down drag out fight no matter who started it all parties end up in jail until they sort it all out and I sure didn't want that." ... that would have been the worst. I can only imagine how that would have been. Anyway, I am glad that this event hasn't stopped you from going out and exercising your legal rights to do what you want to do in a free country.


What happened to Tracii is the exception, not the rule. But like any other woman out there, being a potential victim of violence is always possible...but still the exception. Being a victim of harassment is also possible...yet still the exception thank goodness. Tracii's cautionary tale is for those of us who enjoy the mainstream like any other woman...like any other person out there. Whether part time in presentation or full time, we all get read by a few. It comes with the territory. Yet it's no reason to fear being out amongst others. Just be aware of what's going on around you.

I want to also reiterate what Sara has said. It's great advice that we should all have in the fore front of our minds when we go to mainstream places, CD or TS, it doesn't matter we're all in the same boat together in these types of situations.

[crystalbath]

Damn, i hate people that close minded :@ On the plus side, well done to standing your ground and to everyone else helping you out :)

[sandra-leigh]

What happened to Tracii is the exception, not the rule.

To emphasize the point that excrement happens:

Getting in a car accident on any one journey is the exception rather than the rule. And defensive driving can help greatly in reducing accidents. But people drive a lot, and idiots and people not being careful are all over the place -- sufficiently so that car accidents are one of the major causes of significant injuries.

Likewise, go out dressed enough and eventually problems will probably show up.

[melissakozak]

Last weekend, while going out with my other trans friends at the local lesbian bar we like to hang out at was a rather drunk and obnoxious man who would not leave us alone....I hate to say this but, while dressed, we are in a compromised position to say the least....I bit my tongue, dodged the situation and when the bartender cut him off, he left rather quickly....