Do we always show enough empathy for each other?

[suzy1]

There is a thread here from a member that is nervous about dressing because of how his wife feels about it.
Some of the replies are along the lines of “just say it’s your girly time this weekend, it’s as easy as that”
No, it’s not as easy as that for that member, it’s frigin hard.

Then there are the members that are trying to build up the courage to go out dressed [sometimes for years] and what do we get? “Just walk out the door, its easy”…….no, it isn’t easy for some. It’s the hardest thing they will ever do in their life.

And then there was a thread about going out dressed when you have young children that might get bullied at school because of it. Members who don’t have children of there own jumped into the discussion and said it was O.K to go out. The funny thing was some of the members that actually had children of there own felt a lot different about it. I wonder why?

I know that all these members mean well. All the members that I have in mind as I type this are nice kind people but there does seem to be a lack of empathy and understanding here sometimes.

Or is it just me? Do I need to get a life or something?

Suzy

[FelicityMay]

I agree that everything we do involving cross dressing is an extremely personal matter.
We all have our limits and our embarrassment at some points, and we are all just looking for courage to get through it.
I admit that sometimes, I will post something on here, asking how to get over the nerves, and just looking for some encouragement, and it does seem a little intimidating when people say to "just go do it", but it also can be used for motivation!
There are good and bad things to this sort of pushiness, but I think some people push it a little too much...

[Megan Thomas]

Suzy, compared to how it was for our generation things are a lot different now. Better in many ways, more understood and accepted. I agree for some the fear is still massive but do we actually end up fearing what we imagine instead of the likely reality? It's a personal decision all of us make at some point in our lives, and once made we often look back and ask ourselves why didn't we do it sooner. I'm empathic with pretty much everyone, regardless of how emboldened they feel. Times are a changing...

[Keri L]

Perhaps, some of the messages that seem pushy are really just a result of people who have managed to get over their fears and have realized how fun and liberating it can be to get out en femme and they are hoping you'll do the same, if they minimize the scariness of it. The bad thing about message boards and emails is that you cannot get a feel for some emotions behind the text.

As for children and embarassment, I do not know what to say. As a parent, I will never do anything to subject my children to unnecessary ridicule.

Anyway, it seems like some of the scariest things in life are often the most rewarding, eg skydiving, going out x-dressed, etc. But, as someone who has only been out en femme maybe 10-12 times in public, I clearly know how scary it can be. It does get easier each time, and in some ways better as your confidence grows. Skydiving, on the other hand, was mindblowing the first time, and just a "check your undies" later for any accidents the second time!

[Brynna M]

When you have mastered a fear or a skill sometimes its legitimately hard to remember what it was like starting out. Empathy comes in lots of different form including feeling someones fear and pain, and cheering them on to overcome it. But sometimes i do think that I could be a little more empathetically supportive of people who are not "out" even to their closest people (S.O.) Especially since I'm not far out of the same boat.

[I Am Paula]

Everybody gets to make their own choice. However, some people also need that extra push. The guy at the door of the airplane didn't tell the parachutist to get INTO the plane. He's there to help you get OUT of the plane.
It's a big decision for anybody to come out, or go out. There's as much merit, and empathy, in saying 'just do it' as there is in saying 'stay home and duck when you walk by windows'.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Nothing involving one's wife or children is easy. I can't believe that someone would make light of such important decisions, especially involving the safety and wellness of another person's children.

[Alice Torn]

Suzy, I think you are on to something about human nature in general: hardness of heart, and that we too often don't really put ourselves into their heels, before we give "pat answers", like "just get over it". Sometimes we need a little loving kick in the rear end, but we too often don't really get it, before we dish out.

[Deedee Skyblue]

I agree with your premise, suzy. Each of us has to handle her own situations in her own way, and the one-size-suits-all solution 'Just do it!', often said in way that conveys condescension, does NOT fit every situation. We are all round pegs, and often 'Just do it' is trying to pound the OP through a square hole. We are not all ready to carry the banner, force society to change to accept us, be the early adopters, and just ignore the potentially disastrous consequences. Saying 'it worked for me' doesn't mean it will work for the OP, and if often seems that responders ignore the OP's situation in order to deliver their own message. I stopped posting my own concerns as I already know what so many of the responses are going to say, and it wouldn't surprise me if there are others who feel this way as well.

BTW - I am NOT saying that all those 'Just do it' replies are meant to be condescending, just that it is extremely easy to misread condescension into a text message that would clearly not be evident in a f2f conversation.

Deedee

[ReineD]

I agree, some things are hard to do. No one can tell a child or a spouse, "Stuff it ... I'm going out and if you get teased/laughed at/spoken about behind your backs, deal with it".

I should think that the CDers who have wives and kids know this, and they take the posts from unmarried, childless CDers with a grain of salt. I would. :p

But, it doesn't mean that they can't speak to their wives honestly about their needs, and in time, find perhaps more quiet ways to satisfy the needs while the kids are small. Like getting a sitter and going away for the weekend. Or mom runs interference while dad gets ready to go to a monthly TG support group. Or dad and mom (if she is willing) get to dress in the bedroom after the kids are in bed.

[~Joanne~]

No, it's not just you. I have noticed a lot of what your saying happening here and sometimes I wonder about it myself. I don't have children so I tend not to offer any advice when it comes to those threads as I have no experience in that area. I also agree that some girls are well beyond the point where they fear going out, they beat that a long time ago while a lot of us, myself included, still have those fears.

I think my biggest peeve though is when we tell someone that they are passable when they surly are not. I am not talking about the girls here that do not care if they are or not but the ones that really would like to be passable and blend so they aren't attacked or worse. We do them a huge disservice when we do that. I understand that once your truly comfortable with yourself, it won't matter but how long did it take to actually accept that this is who you are?

[UNDERDRESSER]

I agree. BUT, there is a huge range of reasons on here for what we do. There are equally huge ranges of, family, work, age, marital status, friends and family attitudes, religious surroundings, legal protections, sexual orientation, gender identification....need I go on? Yes, we can do better as far as having empathy, but given the list I just made, I am sometimes surprised we aren't at each others throats constantly! I always try to couch my advice with reservations along the lines of "YMMV"

[Jenni Yumiko]

very much so, i have seen quite a few threads myself where everyone jumped on the i do so you can to, bandwagon, despite not knowing anything OP is going through, or care of the real life consequences. Then there are some that are just plain stupid you just can only just SMH and put them on ignore. I try to think about OP's position when I post, though I may have been guilty of band wagoning at times. (I put myself on ignore for my own lack of empathy)

I also avoid the picture forums like the plague cause if I see anyone who really doesn't look like they would pass or someone with crazy 80's drag queen makeup asking if they look good, I would probably say something, then everyone would hate me for not posting something positive and I would have to put most of the forum on ignore and only talk to myself and a couple other people :-)

[PaulaQ]

Well, we could always be kinder - who couldn't - but I think we're actually pretty OK, and pretty empathetic. A lot of us, hell, probably MOST of us, have one or more personal problems out of the set of issues that beset crossdressers, in addition to the usual slings and arrows of outrageous fortune everyone faces from time to time. Problems don't make for happy people, oftentimes.

In addition - anonymous internet forums rarely bring out people's best behavior.

So given all that, I think this place is positively glowy. Sure, sometimes a person might get a little strident, or maybe a little bandwagonning happens. And there's probably been a post or two written under the influence of the pink fog. But I think most of us really have good intentions and try hard.

The empathy I've personally received from many, many here has been extraordinary. I'm genuinely humbled, and feel fortunate that I found y'all. This is the first place I've ever felt really accepted unconditionally, and I talk about stuff here that I swore I'd NEVER talk about.

I definitely feel the love here. <3 <3 <3

[Lorileah]

I think I got this now...

"I wanna go out but..."
Encouragement - " go for it, do it, it is the thing to do"
Empathy- "no hide stay home, the world is bad."

"My wife doesn't understand me"
encouragement- "well discuss it with her, work itout. Don't keep this inside you"
Empathy- "You're right. Be a man and just keep it to yourself. After all she doesn't need to know"

I see so many posts here complaining about how unsupportive some are. Can't support come with a little tough love? Can't support be giving some one the encouragement to be more open? How did the song go "If you just want a shoulder to cry on..don't cry on me.."

Yes we are of two camps here usually. And from what I remember recently, the question was "how do I...come out to my wife or get out more often or sneak around behind her back?" And some responses have been abrupt and pushy. I believe the thread you are referring to was worded so that the wife appeared to be the bad guy. So sorry, so many of us here have heard that song and dance so often and we have lived it and found it to be not true that we will state such.

We do empathize with others here. We also call them as we see them.

[ReineD]

We do empathize with others here. We also call them as we see them.

That too. :)
........

[noeleena]

Hi,

It allso comes down to advice & how we give it, Im a builder by trade, & done my time of over 46 years, now when a young one comes to me to learn do i expect him ( very few are woman of cause ) to know what i have learned in my time & expect him to know, & just do it,

So its no different with anything in life , i can & have taught / shown others what to do & the how to for those who are dresser's , yet thats all i can do because its not myself who is going to go out walk the streets & so on , i can go with them & i let them make the yes or no if one is going to or not .

so i try to let the person concerned feel comfortable in them selfs first & i try to make them comfortable while im with them if not ill encourage them & when they are ready then thats the time to go.

Children we have 3 grown up adults & grandchildren we will have 10 5 boys & 5 girls, this comeing april / may. so i know from experance whats its like working through issues with famile, being a female who's different does not change the concerns, yes im different yet its the same we still have to go through a lot of issues ,

...noeleena...

[Stephanie47]

Suzy, you're right on! I have seen those attitudes displayed numerous times. I often wonder if they follow their own advice. One thing I have learned over the years is a lot of what people say is pure bullshit. It's easy to sit on a chair and bang away on a keyboard telling how easy it is. I really cringe when I see a young person asking for advice, and, the respondent who does not know the person other than the contents of the brief posting offers advice that may blow up in the youngster's face.

Well, if you do not have '"any skin in the game" you should not be giving advice. Life is all about evaluating the risks and rewards of a course of action. Impulsive actions may be disastrous from which there is no retreating.

I've been chastised on occasion for giving cautionary advice. All I can say, when the shit hits the fan, will you be there to pick up the pieces? The answer is no!

[andrea lace]

My thinking on this is clear enough
We are not lemmings and we don't have to take someones advice and adhere to it. There are so many personality's on this forum so all the advice given on here vary from one person to another. Some advice airs to caution some to risk and boldness. That's what makes being a member of this forum a blast.

All we can do is take on board all of the advice we are given and choose our own path.

[suzy1]

I think I got this now...

"I wanna go out but..."
Encouragement - " go for it, do it, it is the thing to do"
Empathy- "no hide stay home, the world is bad."

"My wife doesn't understand me"
encouragement- "well discuss it with her, work itout. Don't keep this inside you"
Empathy- "You're right. Be a man and just keep it to yourself. After all she doesn't need to know".



How black or white can you get!!!!
I didn’t word my thread to come over like that Lorileah and I think you know it.

Can we not see the deference between tough love and just being blunt and unfeeling?
My comments were not based on just one thread Lorileah but many threads and PM’s I have had over the years.



Thank you for all your replies.

Suzy

[Deedee Skyblue]

"I wanna go out but..."
Encouragement - " go for it, do it, it is the thing to do"
Empathy- "no hide stay home, the world is bad."



The problem isn't encouragement such as you describe. The issue arises when the responder implies that the OP has nothing to worry about, should ignore her fears, nothing bad could possibly happen, it's no big deal and the only possible outcome is blissful happiness.

Perhaps this is not what the responder intends to say or imply. But that is how it comes across. And there is no empathy in that implication.

Edit: I am surprised and pleased at the number of posts that support suzy. Too many for the usual 'you just don't get it' dismissal.

Deedee

[Megan Thomas]

I think my biggest peeve though is when we tell someone that they are passable when they surly are not. I am not talking about the girls here that do not care if they are or not but the ones that really would like to be passable and blend so they aren't attacked or worse. We do them a huge disservice when we do that.

I totally agree. I cringe at some of the posts I have seen telling someone they look great and the truth is sadly far from it. I know human nature is to try not to hurt people's feelings but where do we draw the line? We all have to start somewhere and experience comes with time, but all too often I see see pictures of girls that really need some good advice before venturing out. The most common faux pas have got to be 1. inappropriate clothing; 2. terrible make-up; 3. wigs pulled too far down the forehead.

Surely it's in all of our interests to help others to get it right? Otherwise, there'll always be fodder for a minority of the public who seem to delight in taunting the less confident girls who might as well go about with a target on the head.

I do wonder if we had a forum thread for critique posts that was entirely anonymous (for the OP and all replies) whether we would see different comments from those we normally see? I certainly refrain from posting my opinion in some posts because I'm not sure how my opinion on someone's look would be taken, no matter how well intentioned my advice is.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Suzy, What was it that (what's his name ) said, For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Some of the replies are along the lines of “just say it’s your girly time this weekend, it’s as easy as that”
No, it’s not as easy as that for that member, it’s frigin hard.[/quote]

Yes it is hard. But often, some form of compromise can be reached...there is always a solution.


Then there are the members that are trying to build up the courage to go out dressed [sometimes for years] and what do we get? “Just walk out the door, its easy”…….no, it isn’t easy for some. It’s the hardest thing they will ever do in their life.

I found that telling my family was harder than going out. Going out was a piece of cake compared to telling my father. But still, it did take me a bit to get my courage up. I knew I'd probably do it eventually though but I wasn't really ready till 2001.


And then there was a thread about going out dressed when you have young children that might get bullied at school because of it.

See, I have a problem with that type of reasoning because of an exhcange I saw once, years ago, paraphrasing:




I'm afraid my kid will get bullied if I go out in public

how old is your kid?

24.


To me, that's just an excuse to give into fear, and a silly one at that, because there are already proven solutions that we see here on these boards all the time.

Why do I say that?

1. Because there are people here who crossdress without their kids knowing. With the Wife/SO running interference, etc etc.(while I don't think that's optimal, sometimes that's part of a compromise)

2. Whether the kids do or do not know isn't really a problem, because the crossdresser dresses away from their home town (Like Sara Jessica) or on trips (like TxKimberly). Those are also not optimal solutions, but they do work at least on a short to medium term basis.

3. We should be working to try to make crossdressing a non-issue that no one would even think of bullying someone over. To that end CD's as a community have to stop thinking of it as a shameful thing and stop being so secretive about it. The most important part of that being able to trust our own immediate families with the knowledge.

4. There are transgendered children who are right now at this very moment trying to live their lives as the gender they want to be...and yet there are people here who are more worried about non-trans children getting bullied because their Father is a crossdresser. Maybe we should try to make bulling a no-no in general?


Or is it just me? Do I need to get a life or something?

Suzy

Sometimes having empathy means telling someone things they need to hear, not the things that they want to hear.


Suzy, compared to how it was for our generation things are a lot different now. Better in many ways, more understood and accepted.

Indeed, you can easily see the difference on these boards about how we think of our various gender issues. The younger folks are MUCH more willing to share this with friends and their immediate families early on.


Perhaps, some of the messages that seem pushy are really just a result of people who have managed to get over their fears and have realized how fun and liberating it can be to get out en femme and they are hoping you'll do the same, if they minimize the scariness of it.

Exactly. Some of those big scary stone walls we erect in our minds about this thing of ours..aren't really stone...when ou look at them from the other side you'll see they were made of balsa or even illusionary.




But, it doesn't mean that they can't speak to their wives honestly about their needs, and in time, find perhaps more quiet ways to satisfy the needs while the kids are small. Like getting a sitter and going away for the weekend. Or mom runs interference while dad gets ready to go to a monthly TG support group. Or dad and mom (if she is willing) get to dress in the bedroom after the kids are in bed.

And there's some more solutions.


I think I got this now...

"I wanna go out but..."
Encouragement - " go for it, do it, it is the thing to do"
Empathy- "no hide stay home, the world is bad."

"My wife doesn't understand me"
encouragement- "well discuss it with her, work itout. Don't keep this inside you"
Empathy- "You're right. Be a man and just keep it to yourself. After all she doesn't need to know"

Ouch! I'm glad I didn't write that. Oh Okay, I "thought" it, but I didn't write it.


I see so many posts here complaining about how unsupportive some are. Can't support come with a little tough love? Can't support be giving some one the encouragement to be more open?

I agree.


I believe the thread you are referring to was worded so that the wife appeared to be the bad guy. So sorry, so many of us here have heard that song and dance so often and we have lived it and found it to be not true that we will state such.

Darn tootin. I've seen enough "my wife is a bad guy and set limits that I didn't want to agree to in the first place, so I'm going to sneak around her back and do what I want anyway" posts full of selfishness and male privilege to last a lifetime.


We do empathize with others here. We also call them as we see them.

That's right.


How black or white can you get!!!!

Suzy, some things in regards to this thing of ours ARE black and white.


I didn’t word my thread to come over like that Lorileah and I think you know it.

Oh really, do you know what it read like to me?


Waaah, why do people tell me what I don't want to hear. They should just tell me what I want to hear. Because to me support is telling me what I want to hear and not calling me out when I say or encourage deception and foolishness"


Can we not see the deference between tough love and just being blunt and unfeeling?
My comments were not based on just one thread Lorileah but many threads and PM’s I have had over the years.

Because sometimes, nicey nice doesn't work and members need to be hit over the head repeatedly with what works until they get it. Let me put it this way. If Og the cavewoman disovers that fire hurts you, might she not want to tell Ug the cavewoman before she puts her hand in a fire?

This whole community is about sharing experiences and things we've learned over the years and there are some here who just don't get that. All they want is peole to laugh at their jokes or tell them they 're pretty in their pictures. There's more to crossdressing and transgender stuff in general than just pictures and what color panties one is wearing.

If Lacey Leigh was here (wrote and self published a book about crossdressing) she'd tell you the same things I do, because SHE is the one who started telling it to me 14 years ago.

Have you read any books about this thing of ours, any at all? Boyd? Rudd? JJ Allen? Boylan? The Bulloughs? Kate Bornstein? Serano? or even Miss Vera's informercial style books?

Heck the only reason I haven't read Magnus Hirschfeld's seminal 1910 work, "Die Transvestiten" is because I haven't picked an English translation yet.

Don't you get it? This entire site is about learning from the wisdom of others and the wisdom of the past and not repeating mistakes over and over again. Thankfully the younger generations of transfolk don't seem to be repeating our mistakes. Now if we can just get some of the older folks to get with the program.

Veronica

[suzy1]

Don't you get it?

Veronica

Yes I do get it.

[Tamara Croft]

I'm not seeing much empathy in this thread and if it carries on, I'll lock it, so shut it!

[PaulaQ]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I find the opposing POV on this forum to be helpful, and I frequently PM people to ask them questions. I like to look at things from all sides. Lots of things get brought up I might not have considered.

Sometimes, too, a little tough love is called for - I agree with that.

Anyway, I have received lots of support. I only hope I've been empathetic enough myself. It will be hard for me to repay the kindness I've experienced here - I've received so
much!

[Beverley Sims]

Suzy, I see you as a kind, thoughtful and empathetic person.
You are cautious and caring towards everyone.
This is the type of question you would ask.

In this day and age it has all gone past us.
Rush here, rush there.
Make a quick decision on the spot is how some solve problems, do not dwell on it but move on.
I agree some are given bad advice about coming out and encouragement at the wrong time.
This happens when scrolling through posts and they get misread or people reply on the fly.
I have done this and put my foot in it big time.

With the internet as it is, a bit wham bam thank you sam you get a lot of shallow replies.
They are diverse but some are shallow.
If I see someone that is eager to progress and they do not cut the mark, I will gently discourage them and give an alternate argument from the main stream.
Usually have more practice in your weaker part of your presentation and wait till tomorrow.

In closing I am less thoughtful and a bit more hard nosed than you, mind you if somebody bites back it does hurt me.

[suzy1]

Thank you for your kind words beverly.

I never wanted this thread to degenerate into something unpleasant and I am partly responsible.

Now where do I get some empathy from?:straightface:

[carhill2mn]

Hi Suzy,

No, it is just not you. Too often, well-meaning people offer advice that, while it may be good advice, sounds a little abrupt and
insensitive. It is easy to forget how one felt many years ago about things that seemed important or scary at the time. Also,
it takes time for people to better understand their feelings and how to deal with them. Risk/reward evaluations are needed.

As usual, what seems to be good for one person may not be good for another. Some people will advocate being open, up-front,
with no apologies attitudes. Others will advise a more cautious approach. Frequently, the advice offered is based upon that
person's experiences. Each person needs to determine for herself what is appropriate for her in her given circumstances.

[Ellanore G.G.]

Hi Suzie,hugs to you :hugs:
As a gg i maybe see things different from others.
I had years of mixed signals
Like my H would say, aw i have a day off , but I dont Have to dress.
So my feelings in the start, was well if you dont have to do it why the fuss.
Then the " I only just need to do it now and again "
Well just do it now and again then lol.
So years down the road, If he feels the desire to dress,
He just comes right out with it.
Then its up to me, to make sure the kids wont come for a visit,
and that none of my friends will call for a quick chat.
Hes not a great planner, and likes to be reassured that no one will call,
and have him running, like a deer caught in headlights.
So while I understand its not always easy to organise in a short space of time.
I manage it nearly all the time.
Thats why we now have the " I need my time " conversation.
If he does not come right out with it, I cant guess for him.
Sometimes its not possible, but he gets that too.
xxx