Changing Friends ~

[melissaK]

So as you may recall from my prior posts (because its all about me and I know I'm the only girl here who's posts you bother to read), I am MTF TS many years on HRT, but new to being out to close family and a few select friends, and new on a path of actively planning transistion (since January 2013).

And I know that in coming out and transistioning further I may lose some friends. And I have some misogynistic (dont respect women) male friends who I mentally put into the "at high risk to lose" group, and I want to be as careful as possible in telling them as I do value their friendship and things we've shared over the years, despite their misguided morals.

So, being "out" around people who like transitioning TS me, allows me to be me without fear of reprisal, and it feels REALLY good. (I can hear 1/2 of you saying Duh! right now).

So now when I am around my misogynistic friends it feels WORSE than ever. I really don't like them. I really don't want to be around them. I kinda want to dump them from my social calendar.

BUT wait a cotton picking minute. I'm supposed to come "out," and they're supposed to dump me as a friend due to THEIR intolerance. I'm supposed to be left on the moral high ground!

Once again the rules about this TS stuff are all F***** up!!

[Amy A]

I know where you are coming from, thankfully I don't have any particularly misogynistic friends but there was one who was definitely in the 'High Risk' group. He'd said some fairly homophobic/transphobic things in the past, usually in a jokey manner but it was clear that such things made him feel uncomfortable. Otherwise he's a really nice guy, so I held out hope. I told him via private messaging on Facebook, and he was totally cool with it, and even apologised for anything he'd said in the past that could've made me feel bad.

The point I'm making is that people put up a front when in a crowd, and when they are confronted with something like this from a friend their reactions can be very different from what you'd expect. If you feel that there is someone whose friendship you value, you may as well give them the benefit of the doubt.

Having said that, people change, and if you really feel that there's nothing in the friendship for you anymore, then perhaps it is time to respectfully call it a day. I actually once dropped a whole group of people because I realised that they just made me feel bad about myself all of the time.

Rachel :)

[arbon]

I had a whole bunch of friends I preemptively cut ties with. At the time I felt I had to much on my plate to be worrying about their reaction (with that group of friends I did not think the reaction would be very good at all!). The downside to that was that I did not give them the opportunity to judge, choose for themselves, and who knows some of them may have ended up being supportive.

[PaulaQ]

Melissa, I am so sorry for what you are going through with your friends, and I am quite sure that I am the least qualified person on this entire forum to give you any advice. But I'm going to anyway.

This may not totally apply, but I really think it does. When I went through recovery for alcoholism, I had to dump many friends - bar tenders, drinking buddies, and actual close friends who just happened to also drink a lot.

I actually cared about this latter group, and I felt terrible about cutting them out of my life, and I know I hurt them.

But I stayed sober.

So my advice to you is "to hell with what you are 'supposed' to do - do what you have to do to survive." Some may surprise you, but ultimately, do what you have to do to survive.

Again, I apologize if this is totally inapplicable and inappropriate. But what you describe sounds a lot like what I went through with friends.

[sandra-leigh]

My misogynistic friend is an OK guy. I am prepared to lose him as a friend, but I will... grieve... the loss if it happens.

The friend I feel more like dropping is not misogynistic, but has for a number of years considered me to be "boring", and we have been drifting apart for some time. Sort of a "why bother?" (even trying to describe what is happening to me.) I get along better with his wife these days.

My misogynistic friend... if he isn't able to handle the situation, then it will be because of his nature; human interactions have never been his strong suit and he self-suffers from that enough as it is. But my other friend, if he isn't able to handle the situation, it will be because he didn't care to, that I will have just become too strange/different for him to pay attention to.

[kellycan27]

For me it was my friendships with other TS/CD friends that changed. When we got together it was always about being transsexual, dressing, rights, how badly the world treats them and how they couldn't afford this or that. Been there... Done that. It was time to move forward with life "after" transition. It wasn't all one sided though.. Some of them no longer considered me as " one of them".

[Kathryn Martin]

I'm supposed to come "out," and they're supposed to dump me as a friend due to THEIR intolerance. I'm supposed to be left on the moral high ground!

I don't get why you would leave the moral high ground. When did you notice they were misogynist? - and what did you do about it? A note: this is a really tough one when you start chewing on it - and I don't mean to cause distress. It was one of the worst coming out issues for me.


It was time to move forward with life "after" transition.

I can say the same thing. I crossed the Rubicon and I instantaneously became mean and elitist because all those things became a matter of daily life and effortless.

[DeeDee1974]

If someone is a misogynist, I guess I would have a hard time saying they were good people. It's kind of like being a good racist.

I mostly had liberal female friends to come out to. Their collective response was more of a we've been waiting for this. Overall, I think they thought I was gay, but still very accepting.

I had one friend Julie who was a bit more conservative, but still a good person. Instead of shunning me she really just had a lot of questions and would want to talk often about my transition. We actually became super close because of it. We were initially friends because we shared common friends, but now we have our whole own thing going on. Like a trip, just me to go see her in April.

[Jorja]

Friends are a dime a dozen. Those that stick with you thru thick and thin are priceless. Choose wisely.

[LeaP]

Maybe they really are misogynist, maybe they aren't. You hung around with them. How did they perceive YOU? After all, perhaps there's a lurking, over-compensating TS in the group. Unlikely, but you never know. People will say and tolerate all kinds of things in groups, even things that they privately regret. Then there is social convention among men, especially in groups, one aspect of which is (unfortunately) to denigrate women at times in ways great and small, sometimes "jokingly," and also to tolerate the odd egregious statement. I'm not defending it, just expressing the reality.

You may be surprised. Or they may be compete pricks ... LOL!

Only one way to find out.

[Aprilrain]

i doubt your going to want misogynistic "friends" once you start living your life as a woman. just sayin.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

misogyny is a pretty strong word....that implies hatred...

and i'll forgive socially ingrained "disrespect" in many cases...people will define that differently...i know guys that go to strip bars and get drunk and say "i'd hit that"...most of them are good guys...they are burdened with expectations and testosterone..
i could say "men are pigs" but that would be disrespectful to them..heh

prior to transition, i had a night where a friend brought me a bottle of scotch to share and informed me that by the end of the bottle, he would talk me out of getting my dick chopped off.....i'll never forget he looked at my messy house and the basketball game on the tele and said "you cant be a chick...look around"...
after a long night of hearing my story and sharing what i had experienced, he apologized, he hugged me!! and wished me luck and we are still friends...

i invested hours (after investing 25 years knowing him) and it was worth it...

that's the kind of stuff we go through...its our choice...and we may or may not feel compelled to give our old friends the wide end of the field to embrace us...in my experience tho, i invested in a number of friends and it was well worth it to me

in fact, i am closer to my older friends than to the group of women that "went through" transition with me....the girls went separate ways for the most part..kind of like what kelly said... maybe we'll touch base in the future but there is a lot of pain and suffering wrapped up in those intense transition oriented relationships...

[melissaK]

Thanks everyone. A lot of truth and insight from ALL.

This is a challenging time for me and I fear unknowns, as is my nature, if not everyone's nature. So in an effort to eliminate unknowns, I am over analyzing my friends and their off-hand comments more than is warranted, just as I have done with my wife. And with her, well, all my forethought still comes down to "its her call" to stay or go. And so it will be with my friends.

In truth my FRIENDS are not misogynistic, nor even pigs. But they do revel in manhood. They drive F350 4x4's. They ride big ass Harley's. They are all ex military and ex cops. They each own an arsenal. They all hunt camp and fish in the stereotypical man vs wilderness way. Our idea of a good sport is hockey. And maybe it goes with the manhood stereotype, but all are married and solid providers for their families. From my point of view most ALL of them need sensitivity training, and most ALL of them suck at connecting emotionally with their wives.

But yet, I chose them as friends. And I have spent a lot of time asking myself WHY?

I'm the smallest. I'm the most sensitive. I'm the highest educated. I am easily the most politically liberal. Is it all about me overcompensating for my TS issues? I am sure there is a LOT of truth in that. But I am sure its a bit more than that too.

I was an Air Force brat. And it shaped me profoundly. The AF moved my Dad every 18 months on average. I lost ALL my friends on an 18 month basis throughout my entire childhood. Moving as a dependent SUCKED. The emotional losses I absorbed are staggering, and the assistance in emotional coping I was given was limited. As a dependent I "soldiered on" the same as my Dad, the actual service member. So, despite never wearing a uniform, "duty" "honor" and "sacrifice" became part of me. I didn't get a retirement ceremony when I lost dependent status, I didn't get a medal or even a ribbon. But I paid my "dues" to this country far more than most.

And yes, I note ALL my regular friends are "service" types - full of honor, duty, courage, and valor. I work in a world full of J.D.'s and Ph.D's where college, academia, and intellectualism are valued in abundance, and I share that, but past "service" is not common, and come 5:00 I just find little interest in my lawyer friends, or them in me.

So, thinking back on my OP, I think it was fueled by a bit of emotional self protection - in that I was preparing myself for what it would be like to lose all my friends again. And maybe pre-emptorially telling myself "I don't really like them," maybe "they don't deserve to be liked by me."

Truth is, I hope I can pull off what Kaitlyn describes, because eventually, I am going to have to test their sense of "duty" "honor" and "valor" toward a friend, and I want them as friends afterwards.

Happy Easter everyone.