How to use the right words to advance the cause.

[kneehighs]

Hi all. This is an incredible forum and I am amazed at the size of membership as well as the diversity. This my first post at this forum and probably one of few since I am more active at another forum (www.hhplace.org).

I like to wear high heels too, but with the caveat that I appear as a man. Im sure this is just part of a continuum that some of us go back and forth on really. I know there are those of you that don't always want to appear as a woman, but wish to still wear women's clothes. For those days when you want to appear as a man, but still wear women's clothes, I offer the following.

For me, it always as a man. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/creditech/meatpackingdistrict.jpg) You can see another pic of how I consistently publicly "present myself " (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/creditech/newimages2.jpg) to establish our common ground. However, I prefer the term "fashion freestyling" to describe a man wearing any article of women's clothing but still appearing as a man.

The issue in my mind is that alot of people don't have a reference point in their vocabulary to describe a man in heels or a man appearing as a man, but still wearing women's clothes. As far as I know, there is no word in the english language that is dedicated to describing a man appearing as a man in heels. Why not create a new word or phrase for that? History has proven this effective. A word or phrase without negative connotations, without stigma, without derogation. Right now, the phrase, "fashion freestyle" seems to be the best available option. And thus thats the phrase by which I refer below to a man appearing as a man in women's clothes.

Unfortunately, without this word or phrase people mistakingly resort to categories they already know: fetishist, pervert, gay, transgendered, drag queen. A friend from another forum stated, "It's a puissant human trate to be physically and mentally lazy. Why run when you can walk, why walk when you can sit, why sit when you can lay down? As well as "why think when you can pigeon hole things, people, appearances and actions into categories?" Life is so much less complicated when you can make value judgements in that manner rather than by analyzing the subject to see what's really true about the case. So, until a "smart" pill is approved for public consumption, people will continue to apply labels and along without thinking."

I can illustrate this by asking you ,"How do you spell relief?"

For those of you in the U.S., you might answer "R-O-L-A-I-D-S"

And when I ask you think of copiers, what company first comes to mind?

Perhaps, "Xerox."

And when I ask you to think of chocolate and cola, what companies come to mind? Hershey's and Coke by chance? And the "New Generation?" Pepsi?

And WHY do we so readily come up with the same answer? Because these companies at one point in time established ownership of these words in the consumers mind.

Similarly, as men who appear as men, but still wear women's clothing, I think the phrase, "Fashion Freestyling" suits us. The concept of men fashionably appearing as men in women's clothes. It's a unique phrase that to my knowledge no other circle of society is using.

Fashion freestyling men could realistically claim ownership of this phrase. My opinion is that if we continue to patiently propogate use of this phrase on a massive basis (day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade) over and over again, it will eventually be accepted by society.

Historically in the U.S., groups with similar minority status, like men in heels, successfully applied such a strategy. Take for example the Second Wave feminists of the 70's. Did you ever see the original Stepford Wives (http://www.dollsoup.co.uk/wives.htm)? Words that women used in this movie were also words being used in the real world at the time. Consciousness Raising Group is the first term that comes to mind. Humanity vs. Mankind is another one. The use of these words was largely due to the feminist groups use of the words. Eventually society and even the entertainment sector accepted the words.

Just as you might associate cola with Coke, words have the power to affect peoples perception of reality. I'm going to make a committment to use the phrase "Fashion Freestyling" (unless we come up with a new and better term) as often as I can when speaking with others about men in heels/or makeup/or any women's clothing but still appearing as men.

Just my two cents

[susandrea]

You look very stylish. Reminds me of Eddie Izzard (and Prince)! :thumbsup: :)

I've seen what you describe as "freestyle crossdressing"-- an obvious man wearing clothing from both genders.

"Men in Skirts" is close, but still a bit different.

Fashion Freestyling has a nice ring to it.

[kneehighs]

You look very stylish. Reminds me of Eddie Izzard (and Prince)! :thumbsup: :)

thanks!. I've got a few other outfits I can show later.


I've seen what you describe as "freestyle crossdressing"-- an obvious man wearing clothing from both genders.

"Men in Skirts" is close, but still a bit different.

Fashion Freestyling has a nice ring to it.

I hear ya. I hope the others here like the "ring" it has as well.

[Paula Rae]

Hey Kneehighs,

"Fashion Freestyling" sounds to me like someone who does fashion drugs.
I have no problem with "Cross Dresser" as a mater of fact I like it. Nearly everyone I know understands what it means. Using "Fashion Freestyling" to describe cross dressing, is like using the phrase "round stripes" to describe "poke a dots"

Ricki B

[susandrea]

Hey Kneehighs,

"Fashion Freestyling" sounds to me like someone who does fashion drugs.
I have no problem with "Cross Dresser" as a mater of fact I like it. Nearly everyone I know understands what it means. Using "Fashion Freestyling" to describe cross dressing, is like using the phrase "round stripes" to describe "poke a dots"

Ricki B

I think this term is used by men who don't necessarily think of themselves as "crossdressers"-- at least not the way it is usually thought of.

These are MEN who add one or more femme pieces of clothing to their over-all MALE look. No attempt what-so-ever is made to pass as female, and yet it's not really a "gender neutral" look, either.

The term is not meant to replace "crossdresser" or "transvestite", but to add yet another (!) description for a different mindset.

It's blurring the gender-strict line, far more like what women have been doing for a century by wearing trousers and suits but still looking, acting, and regarding themselves as women with zero intention of trying to emulate men.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, kneehighs. (And add David Bowie, too).

[kneehighs]

I didn't say Fashion "Freebasing."

I can see how many would feel comfortable with the term crossdresser. It may suit certain lifestyle expectations and situations when ones goal is to appear as a woman. My goal is NOT to appear as a woman, but still wear women's clothes.

In doing word spins, thats a common tact, even used by the TV/TG/LBGT community. Not just these communities, but many other minority groups throughout history have employed this linguistic method with some success to gain respect from the majority. Some early 20th century feminists were called "suffragettes" while in other parts of the world they were called "suffragists". Thats part of why the acronym TV or TG is sometimes uses instead of the whole word. The acronym lacks the stigma of the whole word.

While I respect that the term crossdresser may fit your needs, in the greater spectrum of crossing gender boundaries, it doesn't fit everyones. Its only fair to leave room for redefining new niches of crossing gender boundaries.

[kneehighs]

I think this term is used by men who don't necessarily think of themselves as "crossdressers"-- at least not the way it is usually thought of.

These are MEN who add one or more femme pieces of clothing to their over-all MALE look. No attempt what-so-ever is made to pass as female, and yet it's not really a "gender neutral" look, either.

The term is not meant to replace "crossdresser" or "transvestite", but to add yet another (!) description for a different mindset.

It's blurring the gender-strict line, far more like what women have been doing for a century by wearing trousers and suits but still looking, acting, and regarding themselves as women with zero intention of trying to emulate men.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, kneehighs. (And add David Bowie, too).

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[uknowhoo]

Hey, whatever floats yer boat! The term "freestyling" works for me and, as you say, doesn't have a negative connotation. That said, that's not what I go for either. But, to each his/her own. Hugs, Tammi

[Angela Burke]

Isn't the term "fashion freestyling" itself just another pigeonhole?
It sounds a teeny bit pretentious to moi.
I'm probably just too old.
I'll just stay in my little "crossdressing" pigeonhole.
I remember in the 1980's Phillip Oakey of the electropop band Human League used to wear stilletoes, full makeup, topped off by what looked like a half male, half female haircut and he was most certainly male. I don't know what he called his style, but I think it was more of a marketing exercise as he once said in an interview the reason he had the haircut was that if someone went into a record store and couldn't remember the name of his band they could always ask for "the guy with the stupid haircut", but then he did (does) have a very droll Yorkshire sense of humor.
Good luck and much happiness with the fashion freestyling

Love Angela XX

[Helana]

Hey Angela

I was thinking about Philip Oakley just the other day and thought how great it is to be a pop star as you can get away with doing things like that. Oakley was a very masculine guy who somehow looked good in make-up and nobody seemed to care about it.

There were posts recently about if only famous people would crossdress this would help our community. Well I think people like Bowie and Oakley were doing this decades ago, and there was no positive spin-off for CDers.

What we need to do is to create truely neutral gender clothing. So far neutral gender clothing has essentially been women getting their hands on male iconic clothing but not the other way around. The day when men can wear stillettos freely will be a big advance in breaking down the gender barrier.

[susandrea]

Hey Angela

I was thinking about Philip Oakley just the other day and thought how great it is to be a pop star as you can get away with doing things like that. Oakley was a very masculine guy who somehow looked good in make-up and nobody seemed to care about it.

There were posts recently about if only famous people would crossdress this would help our community. Well I think people like Bowie and Oakley were doing this decades ago, and there was no positive spin-off for CDers.

What we need to do is to create truely neutral gender clothing. So far neutral gender clothing has essentially been women getting their hands on male iconic clothing but not the other way around. The day when men can wear stillettos freely will be a big advance in breaking down the gender barrier.


I disagree that entertainers out there who cross the gender line do nothing to further the CD cause. Just by being familiar, successful, and confident in their expressions, they open doors for others. Some are serious, and some do it for a lark to get attention, while most are simply ultra creative and live on a different plane of existence. The message they give out is one of conviction, and that is good for anyone.

Secondly, I apologize for being a bit pedantic here, but gender neutral clothing would mean something along the lines of "one size fits all"-- no distiction between the sexes.

I think what you mean is more along the lines of Eddie Izzard's mantra of "Total Clothing Rights"-- the legal and social right for either sex to wear whatever they choose.

Gender neutral:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/susanxo/StreepDefendingYourLife.jpg

Total Clothing Rights:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/susanxo/miscover.jpg

[Julia Cross]

I believe the term which is closest to describing men as men with women's articles is METROSEXUAL.

I applaud your approach. If it is possible for me to be unbiased as a crossdresser, I feel your look is every bit as presentable as can be. Society just has to get past prejudices and expectations. You look more put together than half of the women out there and most of the men.

Julia

[Amelie]

Hi Kneehigh,

O think you might be right. If labels are to be used, then maybe a new label is needed to (I hate to say this) brainwash the public, into making the wearing of women's clothes by men more appealing(?).

I also hate to say this, but maybe words like Crossdresser and transvestite are(how can I say this) kinda old and used up. I know that there are people here who don't mind using these old words but maybe a change is in order. Maybe the younger generation can do a better job of it than the older generation has done, well maybe saying a better job if it is the wrong word, maybe they can find a different way of presenting themselves.

I know a lot of people here don't like drag queens, but you can learn a lot from them. Whether you like them or not they have more experience in life than a closeted CD or a CD that only goes to limited places. This, I think is where the new Cds will make their progress, they will be more open minded than the old generation of CDs. They will see drag queens as a plus and not a negative to their image. I hope the young Cds keep an open mind and learn everything about life from every angle, unlike the older generation of CDs, that still have some negative feelings towards others who might be different from themselves. It will be open mindness of the CD that wil bring him/her out and about, not the clothes, not the attitude, not acceptance, maybe like Shelyn said else where, it will be self acceptance of the CD herself.


That's a good example you brought up Helana, Phil Oakey. He had an attitude that every one could jump in the lake, he would dress the way he pleased. He didn't folow any rules to how he should look. I think he was quoted when asked the question, " What do you label yourself as" and Oakey answered "I am a contridiction".

[susandrea]

I believe the term which is closest to describing men as men with women's articles is METROSEXUAL.

I applaud your approach. If it is possible for me to be unbiased as a crossdresser, I feel your look is every bit as presentable as can be. Society just has to get past prejudices and expectations. You look more put together than half of the women out there and most of the men.

Julia

metrosexual (met.roh.SEK.shoo.ul) n. An urban male with a strong aesthetic sense who spends a great deal of time and money on his appearance and lifestyle.
—metrosexuality n.

Metrosexuals usually don't wear stilettos. They just take more care in their appearance and surroundings than your typical "guy". They get a manicure and aren't afraid to shop at Pier One.

Let's see if I can get this right without looking anything up, as long as this thread topic is about "getting the label right". Does it matter? Perhaps in a world where most people don't know the difference between a CD and a TS, yes.

Metrosexual (well groomed, gay or straight, sensitive and stylish)

Mirl (A little more so. May wear a bit of make-up, shave in more places and wear a pink shirt and jewelry. Some might say "CD Lite" :D )

Men in Skirts (All male. Usually straight. Just likes to wear a skirt. Usually doesn't extend beyond the skirt/kilt/sarong, but might.)

Fashion Freestyler (Adds one or more very femme piece of clothing to the mix. Can be gay or straight, but usually a creative mind. But definitly a male.)

Then you slide into the rest, all the way through CD, Female impersonator, DQ, Club Kid, She-males, pre-op and post-op TS, ect. (I'm trying to think of where someone like Liberace would fit in... ???)

I know some people get fed up with labels, but we live in a world where you can hardly make a move without your social security number, anyway.

If it helps for society to know the terms, it's because they are at least OUT THERE! It wasn't that long ago that any man who crossed the line was a "fag", a "deviant" or just a "weirdo".

Hopefully, after all the descriptive labels educate the unwashed, they will eventually fade and no one will notice or care what you're wearing.

By then, people will probably go naked, covered with flashing lights just to be noticed! :D

[JoAnnDallas]

Then you got "Boy George". CD or Freestyler??

[sherri]

Fashion freestyling men could realistically claim ownership of this phrase. My opinion is that if we continue to patiently propogate use of this phrase on a massive basis (day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, decade after decade) over and over again, it will eventually be accepted by society.
Good logic and problem solving, wrong solution. "Fashion freestyling" has too many syllables, one too many words and has no pizzazz, no verve or caché, no ties to street vernacular. Please reassemble your marketing team and report back to the board of directors with something zingier.

[kneehighs]

sherribicd--so why don't you recommend an alternative that has less syllables, less words and more pizzazz, more verve or caché, and ties to street vernacular? I'm definitely open to better words, perhaps there is one.

And do it quickly please. Cuz I'm not going to wait around for everything to be perfect before I take action. Based on feedback I get during real world applications of this phrase, I can modify my behavior later as I never believe in "failure" but only believe in "feedback." After all, there is no such thing as failure, there is only feedback.

Right now, that phrase seems to be the best available option, so I'm going to take the bull by the horns and run with it.

That is until a better phrase/word is provided.

[freshfrankie]

Free styling! Fabulous phrase. You look marvelous honey. It's so much fun to push the envelope isn't it? Hugs:)


Love
Jeannie

PS. At this moment I'm listening to the Hedwig sound track. It was written for us ladies. Enjoy the ride.

[Angela Burke]

"No such thing as failure only feedback".
I've got a load of college asessments in Jan. 2006, it may be of great comfort to me as I'm walking out the door to know that I didn't fail, but merely created some feedback.

Love Angela XX

P.S. Note I did say "may" not "will", .......... ever the optomist.

[Helana]

I disagree that entertainers out there who cross the gender line do nothing to further the CD cause. Just by being familiar, successful, and confident in their expressions, they open doors for others. Some are serious, and some do it for a lark to get attention, while most are simply ultra creative and live on a different plane of existence. The message they give out is one of conviction, and that is good for anyone.
While there is no harm in seeing these examples, I do not remember any of them in any way influencing popular culture to become more gender friendly. Eddie Izzard is often brought up but what effect has he had? Do people think- you are a crossdresser?-like Eddie Izzard-he is cool- you must be cool too. I dont think so.


Secondly, I apologize for being a bit pedantic here, but gender neutral clothing would mean something along the lines of "one size fits all"-- no distiction between the sexes. any type of clothing can be one size fits all. Half the men living in the world today are wearing a skirt-like garment but does that mean a skirt is considered gender neutral in our Western society? Neutral gender clothing in our society are traditional male garments which women can wear. Can anyone think of a traditional female garment which became neutral allowing men to wear them?

[susandrea]

While there is no harm in seeing these examples, I do not remember any of them in any way influencing popular culture to become more gender friendly. Eddie Izzard is often brought up but what effect has he had? Do people think- you are a crossdresser?-like Eddie Izzard-he is cool- you must be cool too. I dont think so.

I respectfully disagree with you. Countless people write him letters (for years now) saying no less than that he's "changed their lives", helped them be more tolerant, and helped them through a tough time. He has given hundreds of very personal interviews where he openly discusses his crossdressing and all the issues he has had with it since he came out in his early twenties. He regards it as a gift, even if he still wrestles with some aspects of it. I have two friends I met as fans who told me personally that Eddie's bravery helped them go through stomach bypass ops to regain their femininity and love of self. I don't quite understand how he does it, but he certainly does reach people.

How can a successful and open crossdresser NOT have some influence?

[Darlena]

Free styling never occurred to me. I like the sound of FREE...styling. Also..,I would like to nominate SUSANDREA for the title, "Minister Of Education" for setting me straight ( did I say straight?) on the terminology. I guess that there really is no escaping the lables. Love you all!:rose2:

[susandrea]

Free styling never occurred to me. I like the sound of FREE...styling. Also..,I would like to nominate SUSANDREA for the title, "Minister Of Education" for setting me straight ( did I say straight?) on the terminology. I guess that there really is no escaping the lables. Love you all!:rose2:

Oh no!

Seriously, I have to stop researching transgendered issues someday and forget all this stuff before I go coo-coo! :D

Anything is better than the old "weirdo" tag. And I do think all the terms will fade away eventually.

[DonnaT]

sherribicd--so why don't you recommend an alternative that has less syllables, less words and more pizzazz, more verve or caché, and ties to street vernacular? I'm definitely open to better words, perhaps there is one.


How about "Genderfree".

Did you know there is already a coined term called "Gender****" (http://www.informedconsent.co.uk/encyclopervia/Gender****) People who present extreme clashing male/female charecteristics (Such as a bearded man in a miniskirt and heels)