guys in drag for a laugh

[arbon]

Something that's come up for me before, but today I volunteered for an event fund raiser and many of the participants were in costumes and just having fun - and almost always at these things there will be two or three guys putting on the big boobs, blond wigs and lip stick to get a laugh - well it is the oldest joke around, always good for a laugh.

But I get uncomfortable around it, uneasy. Today really triggered me and I cried when it was over and got to my car. I guess it was just trying to fit in with all the other mom volunteers and not feeling like I was doing a very good job and then thinking well after everyone is done gawking at those guys they can get another good laugh at the real tranny when they come through the food line -which of course no one actually laughed at me, I jope. just my own messed up internal dialog. I am feminine, but I think its still pretty easy to tell I am male bodied and I know all the other women I was volunteering with know I am trans.

Also, a lot of the emotion probably has to do with the struggles of transition - I mean like so many of us I have been laughed at, pointed at, stared at - I'm sensitive to the idea of being a joke.

I don't know if that all makes a lot of sense.


Do others have that dislike and uneasiness when the guys are doing drag to get a laugh? or am I just way to sensitive?

[Rogina B]

I can understand where you can feel belittled by these jokers.I can relate to feeling exactly that.And probably the thing that gets to us about being a part of a group of GG's[me at UU church stuff] is that you have an inner feeling that most have no clue as to WHY you are doing what you are doing.I know that I often feel like that.

[PaulaQ]

Do others have that dislike and uneasiness when the guys are doing drag to get a laugh? or am I just way to sensitive?

No, you are not being overly sensitive. Is it overly sensitive if an african american takes offense at a white guy in black-face doing musical comedy? The difference between the two would be what, exactly?

[noeleena]

Hi,

I have been at two drag nights, in 19 years, dought ill go again. no its not my detail. yet haveing said that what they do as guys as in over the top dress, it does not bother me im a woman seen as one & accepted as one im not trying to be like those who like to dress & show off & get paid or even do it as youv talked about . most from what iv seen is they like showing off in front of others ( showmanship if you like )

Im wondering if its more to do with not haveing the selfconfidence in your self your selfworth. being stronge in who you are, think about your strengths build on them yes you may have weakness's in other parts of your life well thats okay you need to work on what makes you ...you...then you wont need to feel upset or youll be looked at or thought of as being weird,

you know to be a strong woman it takes being hurt being abused laughed at told your weird sometimes we need to go this road to understand what will make us strong, an easy life, all given on a silver plate, i dont think so in fact i know so. because iv been down the hardship road, & i had to grow if not then theres not much left is there, tough love if you like

its not about toughen up kid that only makes you hard, its about compassion love & being you.

...noeleena...

[Lisa Gerrie]

Interesting. I never thought that campy drag makes fun of transgendered people, it is aimed at the manly men. Way different from somebody pretending to be flamboyantly gay, to my eye. That I find offensive.

I get that it's insensitive. When I hear somebody start a joke "This guy commits suicide and is standing at the Pearly Gates..." I think of my mom. When you see a man in an ill-fitting dress you feel your face get warm.

We've all got stuff. I'm not saying "get over it" I'm saying "I understand".

[groove67]

I never liked drag shows my entire life. I guess early on knowing what i felt i was i took it as making fun of me and know i will not watch anythingb that has anything to do with drag. I just choose to not see it, not being a prude just do not care for it. Maeianne

[Angela Campbell]

I do not have a problem with the drag shows that are professionals and look very good and actually perform dances and portraying stars. I am actually quite impressed with some of them. The kind you are speaking of I do find....well embarrassing. I feel like I am being made fun of.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i've experienced it both ways... i've been in situations where it was no big deal and others when i feel bad..

my daughter watches rupauls drag race religiously...she loves it, and she enjoys it as a fun show, she becomes fans of one or two of the characters..

the funny thing is that sometimes i enjoy it and other times i feel uncomfortable...

[arbon]

I don't mind drag shows and I like drag queens and kings. I find that all kinda fun. They are their own unique world. This is more around straight guys just doing it to be funny or whatever ---- which I myself did over 4 years ago and it felt so horrible for me to do it because I wanted to be real, it was that night that eventually propelled me down the road of transition. Maybe that is where some of my feelings and insecurities about it are coming from.


Im wondering if its more to do with not haveing the selfconfidence in your self your selfworth.

I'm sure a lot of it is. Fitting in and connecting with other women is something I keep trying to do but I don't seem to do it very well. I keep feeling like I have this life of being the local tranny and people accept me as myself, but not really seen and accepted as a woman. End up feeling like I am in between genders. Sometimes transition can be such a mental and emotional mess.

[Nicole Brown]

You know, to a degree I believe it depends on the venue where the 'drag show' is viewed. I have attended several of these shows and have had different feelings and reactions dependent upon my surroundings. When I attended one of the professional shows in Atlantic City or in Las Vegas, I totally felt that I fit in and just enjoyed the performance for its artistic value.

However, when I have been in attendance at this sought of show at say a gay bar or amateur production, I felt uncomfortable. Even when it was done in a tasteful manor, there was a certain level of discomfort.

I have also encountered the guys in drag in parades which I have attended in Asbury Park, NJ as well as on Halloween in NYC. While these provided truly over the top costumes and persona, I found that I was unaffected as I could easily blend in with the crowd.

[Julie Hall]

I've never been to a professional drag show - though I might like to see one sometime. I agree caricatures make me a little queasy and I also agree that has to do self-worth, amongst other insecurities. I've never encountered them while out - yet. I hope I will be strong enough not to be crushed when it does occur.

Julie

[KellyJameson]

Drag as entertainment does not bother me and even though I'm to shy to be a performer I helped with makeup and costumes during my college years at a local club.

The problem comes from the public seeing drag performers and thinking that transsexuals are men in dresses.

There are transsexuals who do drag but there are also female impersonators doing drag and usually it is important to them that outside of the drag that they are clearly seen as men.

They can become very aggressive if someone tries to imply they are a woman so it was always interesting to see the stark and sharp contrast between transsexuals doing drag and men performing as female impersonators because what is a compliment to one is an insult to another.

It shows you the power of identity where you do not want to be seen as you are not.

I have shared in your sensitivity because you do not want to be labeled "seen" as something you are not which is a man doing drag.

You feel marginalized by being viewed as fraudulent as a comparision to men in drag. This can really hurt and it also provokes the fear of others seeing you this way. It attacks you on many levels.

This is why I avoid drag shows and gay bars at this point in my life, maybe in the future but not right now.

I absolutely loathe the word "tranny" because of the hate and disgust I have seen hidden behind its usage by those trying to demean transsexuals.

In my opinion it is a word only transsexuals should use amongst themselves but not by the general public because of how it has been abused and used to abuse.

Considering that we spend our lives being labeled as something we are not it seems natural that the less this happens the less you want it to happen.

It is painful and the more removed you are from the experience of this pain the less you want to go back to it.

You live with a thick skin and type of numbness and transitioning seems to strip away these defenses leaving you exposed.

I certainly feel like I have lost my mental "armor" that shielded me from myself and others.

I hate this feeling of emotional vulnerability and I have become risk adverse and cautious and this cannot continue because it impacts the quality of life.

You learn how to navigate through life one way, however dysfunctional as it was, and now you have to throw it all away and learn a completely different way.

It is like starting all over and is very stressful.

It always seems that whenever life gives you something it takes something else away.

This problem of fitting in and being seen as you know yourself to be, does not have an easy solution or if it does I have not figured it out yet.

[kellycan27]

Never been to a drag show and don't plan on it any time soon. They seem to appeal to a lot of CD/TS people? Why is that? On second thought I might be able to see where the CD' s would find it of interest.

[StephanieC]

Do others have that dislike and uneasiness when the guys are doing drag to get a laugh? or am I just way to sensitive?

OMG YES!!! I have such strong emotions to this, and it's gotten worse in the last 3-4 months. I have never had a desire to attend these. However, I've been in groups which included gay men who have either participated in or attend these. And I was unwittingly exposed to one during the holiday party at the LGBT center: it was not a good story.

When they announced the drag show, I moved to the back of the room and tried to edge my way out of the room. At that point, I became part of the show as the actors directly spoke to me. (They were actually complimenting me on my look but I didn't take the attention well. Perhaps drag shows normally engage the audience?) I quickly departed the party at that point.

Any way, I never have understood why drag shows are so popular with the gay guys.

-stephani

[Joann Smith]

I have a problem with it big time...

[Eryn]

Humor can also be a bridge to acceptance. Consider the Lola character in Kinky Boots. She definitely plays her part on stage for humor but she is also a serious example who makes some strong points for transgenderism and acceptance.

I think that we can make a lot more points with Joe Public if we don't take ourselves so dead-seriously. Any group that has the self-confidence to laugh at itself gains credibility with the public at large.

[DeeDee1974]

I do have a problem with over the top drag, but at the same time wonder if the guys the OP speaks of aren't secretly crossdressers and this is their chance to get out there in an acceptable environment where others are wearing costumes. They act over the top so others don't figure out that they like it.

[Loni]

i do agree the guy in a dress overtly mocking and making fun of us transgendered. including the woman in pants doing a mockery of a guy. to me it is just like a il done spoof of a white guy in shoe polish trying to be "that" black guy.
to me it is a insult if not done properly and with NO bad intentions. as in the guy/gal really trying to be a woman/man..not just a bad gag joke.

but this is just me.


.

[Badtranny]

Lot of misunderstanding here. Arbon is not talking about drag shows or even drag performers. She's talking about dudes in drag as a lark. Let me give you an example;

This past Halloween, there was a costume contest at work. Participants would wear a costume and right before lunch there is a little event and everybody takes a picture and a winner is declared. This particular year one of the guys dressed up as Frankenstein's Bride along with one of the girls who dressed as Frankenstein. This guy is kind of a character and nobody was surprised that he was doing something like that and he looked truly awful. He's a big dude, not fat, but big and his dress was so small that it barely zipped up past the small of his back leaving his whole hairy back visible. The rest of it was equally abysmal looking.

I stupidly found myself in the downstairs conference room area during the contest and for the first time in a few months, felt really self conscious about being at work. I was making my way through the crowd and I overheard somebody ask if I was in costume, and as I was almost on my way up the stairs one of our Purchasing guys said loudly "whoa look out Melissa, he's giving you a run for your money!" cue the laughter and I just smiled and kept walking.

I'd like to hear from a part timer about how sensitive I am and how I need more confidence.

[Barbara Ella]

I agree that their is a big difference between professional and the off the cuff dudes who are just trying to get laughs. Very wrong. The only reason it is not branded so is "society's" total failure to acknowledge being Trans for us is as normal as someone being black, and slurs are just as hurtful.

And Melissa, while we all are too sensitive, and could use more confidence, you are dead on on this one girl. I am sorry your co workers lack sensitivity, and self confidence/respect.

Barbara

[Deborah_UK]

Lot of misunderstanding here. Arbon is not talking about drag shows or even drag performers. She's talking about dudes in drag as a lark. Let me give you an example;



Yes that's how I read the initial post, and think the thread got de-railed because of the term "drag".

But the initial post resonates with me and certainly the hurtful comments of Melissa's co-worker


and as I was almost on my way up the stairs one of our Purchasing guys said loudly "whoa look out Melissa, he's giving you a run for your money!" cue the laughter and I just smiled and kept walking.


That's one of the reasons I have decided not to go to fancy dress parties, it only takes one person to mis gender you and assume you're crossdressing for the party.

[Beverley Sims]

I can see your point of view here Arbon.
It is the cultural cringe, when you are trying to do something seriously as you are, and I include Melissa in here as well it is a bit of a turnoff to see othere doing it badly.
They do not know about the feelings of transgendered people and all they see is a couple of boobs making boobs of themselves for entertainment.
I feel you are upset because they do not appreciate the anguish you have gone through to get where you are an your own pride is dented by these actions.
And rightly so.
I think you handled it well as did Melissa walking the gauntlet of her workmates.
The only solace Melissa has is from my point of view they are open and I hope not sarcastic about it.

Melissa, I am part time and I feel you would want to punch them in the mouth, but I think if I was walking beside you I would have just cried inside and put another tick of instances on the wall.

[Donna Joanne]

Lot of misunderstanding here. Arbon is not talking about drag shows or even drag performers. She's talking about dudes in drag as a lark. Let me give you an example;

I stupidly found myself in the downstairs conference room area during the contest and for the first time in a few months, felt really self conscious about being at work. I was making my way through the crowd and I overheard somebody ask if I was in costume, and as I was almost on my way up the stairs one of our Purchasing guys said loudly "whoa look out Melissa, he's giving you a run for your money!" cue the laughter and I just smiled and kept walking.

I'd like to hear from a part timer about how sensitive I am and how I need more confidence.

I've got tears in my eyes Melissa from reading your post. Being a part timer myself, I'm ashamed. Thank you for sharing all your experiences and life with us. I do appreciate it so much.

[arbon]

I Melissa conveyed what I was trying to say very well in her example, and I should not have used the word drag in the title.

Thanks for all the responses.

[Beverley Sims]

Arbon, I think you were clear in your post, it is a problem that some do misread what has been stated.
Guys in drag for a laugh, was quite correct.

To answer the last part of the question, I would be amused and probably not feel uncomfortable with some of the guys jokes.
I know I would laugh hesitantly at a demeaning joke about gays transsexuals ET AL, because I think a joke has to be clever and not derogatory towards any body.

[Badtranny]

I've got tears in my eyes Melissa from reading your post. Being a part timer myself, I'm ashamed. Thank you for sharing all your experiences and life with us. I do appreciate it so much.

That's very sweet Donna but don't feel too badly for me. This is what I signed up for and the good far outweighs the bad most of the time. Things like this don't happen everyday, but they DO happen. Transitioning in place is a hell of a thing and the hard times are why I like to draw a hard line between the "except at work" crowd and the real full timers. Work is not just a few hours a day. It is a significant part of your life, and it encompasses the work day, the meetings after work, the golf tournaments, the networking events, the dinner parties, and so on, and so on. Full time means full time, there is no except because something is uncomfortable. Uncomfortable is part of the package for us. Any part timer who tells one of us that we shouldn't be so sensitive, should probably examine their own lack of confidence before telling me I need more of it. I face the world every day as who I want to be, not who the world wants me to be. I think I've got confidence covered.

BTW Donna, I have nothing against part-timers or middle path'ers or really anybody. I'm an advocate for being who you are, whoever that may be.

[Lorileah]

To answer the question, yes I do have an issue with that kind of "performance". I dislike anything that mocks or derides any group. I think because of the section this is posted in you will get that kind of reaction far more than what you would get in the MtF section where many there like the camp and adolescent humor involved.

I will refer to my old signature. "Everyone loves a train wreck, except those on the train" We have to live with ourselves. It hurts when someone gets a laugh at or expense. After all, we must have brought this upon ourselves...right?

[girlyj]

I know exactly how you feel Arbon. My whole life, I've never dressed in drag for Halloween, while I've watched my friends do it from grade school through adulthood. Such a hard thing to see people doing something so freely that has been an immeasurable source of torment for yourself. I never wanted to be a caricature of myself.