Out

[PaulaQ]

I sat down with my wife this afternoon, and told her I was transgendered.

I'll paraphrase, because I'm just not comfortable sharing what I wrote to everyone, but if you are interested in the text of what I wrote, PM me. I didn't exactly stay to script, anyway - as might be expected, the conversation had a life of its own.

I started out by telling her how much I loved her, and that I was still sober. She had no doubts of either of those things. But I told her I mentioned sobriety, because I'm sure she'd noticed, and been worried, about my anxiety, negativity, and paranoia over the past few months.

I told her that we'd worked together over the start of this year to solve the financial matter I was concerned about, and that while that helped with my anxiety, it didn't make it go away, and in fact, it had gotten worse.

She allowed that she'd noticed this, and had been worried. I then told her that about a month ago, I'd found a therapist, and started counseling, and apologized for not telling her, because I was so ashamed. She didn't think a therapist was anything to be ashamed of -- so then I told her.

Honey, there's no good way to say this, so I'm just going to say it. I have realized in the course of therapy, and in talking to people on an internet forum, that I am transgendered.

There is a part of me, in my mind, that feels female - maybe a big part. I don't understand all this yet, but I know that fighting this is a big source of my anxiety.

Her immediate response surprised me, and was more positive than I'd expected - she was worried that she might have unknowingly said things that made me feel bad, and that I didn't need to feel ashamed. She was not feeling deceived - she mentioned this several times.

I then told her:
- I still feel the same way about her, I love her more than anything
- I'm not gay (she allowed she never doubted that)
- I don't want a sex change
- This isn't some kinky sex thing
- This isn't something I've chosen, and this probably isn't going away.
- I don't want her to lose the man she loves.
- I do need to express my femininity sometimes.

I then went on to tell her I'd had feelings like this a couple of other times in my life, but that I'd suppressed them, and blamed them on my alcoholism. I told her those were lies, and that I felt horrible about hiding this from her.

She told me that an apology wasn't needed - I was hiding it from myself too, she understood that. I was really afraid that she wouldn't.

I told her how much I admired her own personal honesty, and that I really admired her as a person, and that was part of what made me feel so terrible about hiding something from her.

I told her that I'd started wearing a few items of women's clothes over the past year, and a lot more over the past 2-3 months. She was really surprised that I'd purchased anything for myself, and wanted to know "Where are they?" So I told her I'd concealed them in my home office.

I had a lot more apology lined up - I really do feel badly for not telling her sooner - but I also told her that I considered waiting longer to tell her, until I understood this better. But I felt that she was already seeing changes, and that my emotional state was worse than I'd let on, and it was unfair for her not to know these things - I didn't want to torture her by making her endlessly speculate on what was going on with me.

So I told her that I needed some things:
- for her to keep loving me, I couldn't bear to lose her
- for her to try to find some acceptance in her heart for this part of me
- that I needed time and space to explore these feelings - I couldn't bottle them up anymore. She understand this. I told her I don't want her to be uncomfortable, so I want to find compromises we can both live with.
- I didn't want to do anything to damage her status in our community, we should keep this a secret. She agreed.
- Again, if things change at home, and I think they may a little, I want to talk about what's comfortable for both of us.

She told me she thought my shaving my legs was a phase, or a sex thing, and that it would pass. I allowed that actually, I wouldn't be sorry to see more of my bodily hair go away. This really bothered her. (I regret saying anything about that.)

She wished I'd given her more notice - but she knew if I'd said "hon, we need to talk about something serious later," she'd wanted to have done it right then. And I told her I wanted her to have a quiet afternoon, and a day off work the next day, so if she felt really terrible, she had some time to herself. I think she'll need that, too.

As the implications of all this sank in, I think she became angry about the situation. Not so much angry with me - I think she understands I don't really want this either, I just have it. But the idea of a more feminine me really bothers her right now. She's worried that this will affect the intimate part of our relationship, and be the beginning of the end of our relationship. I told her I worried about these things too, and that I was dedicated to trying to find a way to avoid these problems, because I loved that part of our relationship too, and felt it was extremely important.

For now I think she's just trying to absorb this and come to terms with it. This is really hard, and she has no desire to see me wearing any feminine article. She understands that I need to explore this, but she doesn't want to see it, at least not now, and possibly not ever.

I think she's very afraid that we'll reach some impasse though, where we can't reconcile our differences over this, and I'll either cave in to her, and self destruct, or it will be more than she can bear. What do we do in that case? All I could do is tell her that I wanted to avoid that too, and I'd work together with her to keep that from happening.

So for now, it's Don't Ask, Don't Tell. I told her this was fine, and a pretty normal reaction to terrible news like this. I told her NOT to feel bad about this. Maybe in time she'd change her mind, maybe not, but that I knew she needed time to process this, maybe a lot of time.

I'm quite worried that she feel isolated now. I think she needs someone to talk with besides me. I suggested a counselor or therapist. She's afraid of telling any of our local friends - that just wouldn't be smart - and she's afraid to talk with anyone in her family, lest they decide I'm a horrible person.

I know we both want things to work out, and we both want to try to work things out. But I think this is the biggest problem we've ever faced as a couple, and we may not make it. I am by no means certain of this.

Because I feel I know my wife really, really well, and wonderful, caring, honest, tolerant and accepting as she is - she wants to be married to a masculine man. I may well change into someone she may still like really well, but is unable to be married to.

I found, by the end of it, that I was wishing I was telling her I had cancer, rather than that I was transgendered. She could've talked to her friends and found more support for that. But no, I told her this, and have introduced her to the isolation I've always known. I hate that she has to go through that.

I hate this, so much.

[Lisa Gerrie]

You did "the next right thing", my friend.

[Angela Campbell]

I also think you did the right thing. It is hard for someone to get their head around something like this. I mean it is something I have lived with for over 50 years and I have a hard time getting it sometimes. Just don't change anything for a while. Stay the same and do the things you normally do around her for a while and let it sink in.

But then who am I to give relationship advice. I never have been able to get it right.

[Cheryl Ann Owens]

Paula, I hate this aspect about myself and wish I had just been born genetically female. You are very lucky though! Your wife seems to be very supportive. And the very best thing is that you were openly honest with her and not hiding the feelings you've been supressing. We know there comes a time when the dam will burst and everything comes out. You've also shown that you want to protect her and her feelings, and try to make this as easy as it can be for her. You'll have a lot of respect from all of us here just for that---you're not being selfish, but instead demonstrating your love for her. It may take some time for her to digest all of this, but grant her all the time she needs. It seems like you'll both continue to have a loving relationship and I pray that it be so. I just want to say that I have an ex-wife who cut me loose, and now a second wife who totally loves and accepts me and will allow me to make any changes I need to make. I hope my reality is unlike your's and you and your wife can take each day a step at a time to fully realize how happy you both can be. You've done the right thing with openess and honesty. I pray that through any hurt, you will both find healing. PM me if your wife would like to speak with my angel.

Cheryl Ann

[giuseppina]

Congrats, PaulaQ. Let her absorb what you've told her for a month or two. If she hasn't raised the issue after that time, a gentle probe about how she feels about it may be in order.

In the meantime, it likely isn't a good idea for her to see you dressed. Same goes for removing more body hair or other changes.

[DawnD]

My heart understands her struggle. You did the right thing, telling her and being so open. The what if's will drive both of you crazy if you let it. I can't speak for her, or your relationship, because we are all different. But I can speak from a place and a relationship that IS working. It can work, and two peoplle who love each other as much as you two seem to, can make it work, and make it work together. I would be happy to be the person she reaches out to if she needs that. PM me if you want my email.

[Brynna M]

That took a lot of courage. I don't think congratulations are quite right but you did a tough thing and its impressive.

[Jenniferathome]

Paula, now you CAN move forward. Don't write off anything yet. Just keep talking.

[mollycd99]

Congratulations for opening the conversation. I felt such an incredible sense of relief after I did and no longer had to feel like I was living a lie. Sounds like you're doing the right thing giving her time & space. Hopefully she will come to terms with it.

[Jodi Anne]

Paula my heart goes out for you and your wife. Sometimes wives can be stronger than we give them credit for, as I hope this will be in your case.

[Jenni Yumiko]

On yahoo if u wanna chat

[Stevie]

Paula, this is a very hard thing to do. She is thinking it over now. I truly hope this works out. Let me know if you need to talk.

[Alice Torn]

I applaud you for doing this extremely difficult thing, opening up honestly to her. I have read of other cders, whose wives were not too pleased about it at first, but over time, came to accept it, and even enjoy it. But, that is not always the way the story ends. I empathize with you. It will not be very easy for a while, and what you said could happen, may happen. I suffer great anxiety too, and am sorry that i told a number of church friends, who told others, and now i am not so close anymore. I am pretty much of a loner now. Even though i don't dress that often. I hope your wife will be willing to at least check into this site, to learn. One day at a time. Easy does it. Alice

[Jamie001]

I suffer great anxiety too, and am sorry that i told a number of church friends, who told others, and now i am not so close anymore.

Those friends that you are not so close with anymore were NEVER real friends because they can't accept you as you are. We don't needs friends like that because they are not real friends. Telling friends is a good way to determine who your real friends are.

[PaulaQ]

First thanks all for the support, well-wishes, and kindness all of you show me. I love you all!

A brief update: We made dinner together, and we're going to watch some TV in a while. This is a good sign. Dinner turned out really good, actually. It was pleasant actually. I am going to make an effort to make all the other parts of our marriage great.

She is probably still somewhat in shock, and maybe a little in denial, although I told her all this, she mentioned feeling anger too. (She should be angry too - this situation sucks!)

For now, I am not going to push this issue, change anything visible to her, and continue on in DADT fashion.

I'm hopeful she'll eventually check this (or some other) forum. I don't know that she will though. I'm not going to push that either, other than to encourage her to find someone to talk to about this. She can't go through this alone.

[Cheryl Ann Owens]

Paula, the obvious and safest advice I can give is to take it slow. Your wife has to get used to this. Hopefully she can accept all of this. You might consider over-compensating by bending over backwards to do many things to show your appreciation? I've let my wife take over our finances and "wear the pants" around here! Usually the guy is dominant in a relationship. But there are gals who would love to be in charge! Think about how that might help your relationship. I do almost all the housework around here. Wouldn't your wife love to be releived of those responsibilities? I love taking care of our house knowing I can be dressed knowing I'm the perfect housewife, and I love it because it feels right for me! Your mileage may vary.

Cheryl Ann

[TeresaCD]

Way to go, Paula. I hope, given time, there's a clear way forward. I reckon it's better to be straight up about things, but it sucks hurting those we love. Keep demonstrating what she means to you, as much as you can.

[PaulaQ]

You might consider over-compensating by bending over backwards to do many things to show your appreciation? I've let my wife take over our finances and "wear the pants" around here! Usually the guy is dominant in a relationship. But there are gals who would love to be in charge!

This is a good suggestion, but I think it would be wrong in our situation. I think I need a chainsaw and to go clear some trees. She wants a man, and she wants me to wear the pants. I knew this going in to tell her.

[flatlander_48]

I'm quite worried that she feel isolated now. I think she needs someone to talk with besides me. I suggested a counselor or therapist. She's afraid of telling any of our local friends - that just wouldn't be smart - and she's afraid to talk with anyone in her family, lest they decide I'm a horrible person.

That's probably a good thought because you don't want to create a situation where other relationships (family and friends) could be compromised. You know, if we don't fully understand how all of this plays out for us, how can we expect others to know? Those who might not be predisposed to be sympathetic and tolerant may always look at you differently. You'll always be a question mark. Hopefully as you and your wife sort things out, it will be a different story. But, for now, you just don't need the extra complications.

[DaniG]

I know we both want things to work out, and we both want to try to work things out. But I think this is the biggest problem we've ever faced as a couple, and we may not make it. I am by no means certain of this.

My wife and I are right there with you, Paula!

[PaulaQ]

We talked again, about halfway through watching Mad Men.

She did tell me that she told someone about this - I think we can trust them, and this person will have resources that can help her. I am glad - I don't want her to deal with this alone.

She wanted to know, again, if this is some type of sex thing, if she was doing something wrong, if I watched her to learn to be a girl.

She is realizing that if she can't accept this, that everything in her life that she's ever wanted, where we are right now, is over. (I'm not demanding this - I want to avoid getting to that point.)

She hates this. Maybe I should quit shaving for a while, she really hates it. She's afraid she's hurting me too. At least we are both worried about the other.

After the show, I told her I loved her as she went to bed, and she started crying.

I think I grieviously wounded my marriage today. I may have killed it.

[Wildaboutheels]

Any wounds, even the tiniest of cuts take at least several days to heal. And this was no tiny cut. I think if she sleeps a few nights and wakes up in the morning with you still beside her, just like always, she'll begin to see that life goes on and it isn't the end of the world. I think it's a good sign that she told someone already but the cat is out of the bag for sure now.

Might turn out to be a good thing IF her friend doesn't think it an insurmountable problem.

[PaulaQ]

Might turn out to be a good thing IF her friend doesn't think it an insurmountable problem.

I trust her friend. She's a civil and gay rights activist. Her own family won't speak to her - hasn't spoken to her in years because she's married to a woman. I think she'll help.

I really don't care what happens to me here. I'm more worried about my wife. I wish I hadn't done this to her.

[Lorileah]

Paula... there is only one thing I can say :twirl::^5::clap: OK three

[Fran Moore]

Wow Paula, you look so much better now that load of bricks are off your shoulders! Congratulations, and best wishes for what lies ahead!

[ossian]

There are elements of this that are similar to my story. Hummm.........

[AmyGaleRT]

Paula dear, you've taken the first step, and that's the important thing. Nothing else, nothing, would have ever gotten resolved without it.

It's predictable you've run into some resistance on her part. Don't rush to judgement that "you've killed your marriage" or something like that. Give it time to resolve itself and stabilize, or to give real indications that it won't. Keep the lines of communication open, and always, always tell her you love her.

I shall remain hopeful for your situation.

- Amy

[Amanda M]

I wish the best for both of you, whatever that may turn out to be. I would encourage her to get on this form, and if she thinks I can help, tell her to PM me.

[Lisa Gerrie]

I think I need a chainsaw and to go clear some trees.

Paula, if you still like doing stuff like that (as I do) then she probably has nothing to worry about. The person she loves isn't going away, just evolving.

[Jenni Yumiko]

No Paula, you haven't. My wife cried for 5 days before it became really discuss able. She's going through the normal range of emotions, its good that she has someone who can "set her straight" about what cding is and isn't. Remain supportive!
Sorry I missed you last night, I fell asleep.ill be on after 7est tonight.

[suzy1]

My heart bleeds for you Paula.
You sound like you are so nice, kind and loving to your wife. You could not have done more.

We can only hope for the best now.

Thinking of you,

Suzy

[Beverley Sims]

Paula,
You have jumped the first hurdle,
now you need to show caring for her.
I suggest you do not bring the subject again until she raises it.
Carry on with daily tasks as normal, always with a smile,not quite like a Cheshire cat but a pleasant demeanor will help a lot.
Try not to snap back when asked something and try and feel soft and considerate as you would normally be.
You do not have to change overnight because you declared it but a waiting game is in order now.
If you dress as a woman always present as she desires and as tastefully as possible.

[traci_k]

Paula,
You did the right thing opening up communication. You didn't do anything to her - it was there all along and it was hurting your marriage. You can't keep these issues bottled up, otherwise like a pressure cooker, they explode elsewhere. You're also giving me the courage to talk to my wife. Anytime you want to talk you know you can PM me. Were both kind of the new girls on the block.
HUGS!

[slamddoger]

thank you for shar your story hop that thing will troun out good for you

[PaulaQ]

Thanks everyone. We hugged last night - she came into my office, knocking to make sure she didn't catch me doing something (we will have to work on this, only thing she might see is me talking on this forum). She couldn't sleep. We embraced, and she told me she can't be without me. I went out and got ice cream, and we ate it and watched a movie til 3am.

I'll take this one day at a time.

[Stephanie47]

Paula, first do not expect any miracles. My wife and I explored my interest in wearing lingerie when it was nothing more than bedroom sex play. Back in the early 1970's neither of us knew anything about transgender issues. So, together we discovered my interest in wearing women's clothing was more than bedroom play. When my wife and I had our 'discussion' one of the things she said was concerned the inability to discuss a cross dressing husband with anyone. Yes, it would be easier to talk about cancer than cross dressing. I think someone on this forum expressed that situation as the wife joining us in the closet. That seems to cover the situation.

It's been thirty years since our discussion. You and your wife need to establish boundaries. She will never forget the discussion and your revelation. I have chosen to not try to express any segment of my desires in front of her. Our attempt to have her buy me a pair of panties did not go well. It was torture for her. So, I realized I was going it alone on this aspect of my personna. It's basically a 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell.' I do not shave my legs, although they are almost devoid of hair anyway. Clean shaven legs would be a reminder for her and an issue with trying to explain to others. Basically, you cannot tell by any visual means I am a cross dressing husband. I shave once every three days unless it is femme time.

I really do not want to force anything on my wife that she does not approve of or enjoy. I kind of throw the issue into the same category as "If you want to go fishing with the guys, that's OK. But, don't expect me to clean it!"

This entire issue is like dropping her favorite heirloom vase on the floor and watching it smash to pieces. After gluing it back together, it will never be flawless again. The vase will have many cracks.

[Lynnmorgan451]

YOU ROCK ! ! ! Paula, I hate seeing that you might think you destroyed your marriage. I felt the same way when I came out to my wife. Now, over a year later, its still messy. No sugar coating here. This type of thing is a huge deal and many women can't (won't) handle it or even consider dealing with it. I just want you to know that I feel like you did the right thing by telling her. You will both have good moments and bad moments but overall, I believe you both will be happier people now. Large secrets have a way of destroying beautiful relationships and lies do NOT make for a good marriage in any capacity. It's obvious that you love each other. I'm proud of you! xoxo

ps...your post gave me chills when I read it and I got all teary eyed.. xoxo

[AllyCDTV]

Paula:

There was a great chance that the emotional trauma that you were going through would have torn apart your marriage sooner or later and most probably sooner. You now have hope that things can be worked out. That's about all any of us can ask for.

[Barbara Ella]

Paula, Congratulations for having the courage to bring your wife into the circle. I know it will be rough on her. It will also be rough on you. You both will need time to heal the trauma. Please do not become alarmed if her emotions change from day to day. My wife cried for nearly a week constantly, then went into total acceptance and assistance, and then went into complete DADT, and we are now in a positive communication phase, but not dressing around her on my part. Even now, there are nights when she cries thinking about this and the unknown future. No matter the reassurances, the future is unknown, we know we cannot make any promises/guarantees, just what we are feeling.

ONE THING....If you can, avoid the DADT. Not talking is a surefire way to build up insecurities and doubts about not knowing exactly what the other is thinking/doing and each is left to think the worst. This was the most awful period with my wife. COMMUNICATE, dear, don't let her go through this without your continual expressions of support. Although it is very good that she has a friend, but she needs you, and you need her. INTERACT with her at all times. Don't push your TGism, but make sure it is you in front of/with her.

Don't expect answers quickly, and don't ask her for any decisions, let her offer when she is ready. Just offer your answers honestly to her questions and concerns. get educational materials for her. If you haven't already, get "My Husband Wears My Clothes," by Peggy Rudd. There are others.

You are in my prayers, dear.

Barbara

[kimdl93]

Dont hate yourself, and don't wish you had something more positive to share - Like "Honey, I have cancer". Yes, this is difficult, especially in a first conversation, but compared to the host of other potential problems, having a transgendered spouse is really not that bad a thing...it just takes time getting used to.

Its a positive to be able to talk about this, even if your wife has some reservations. Now, you've been honest, open and trusting. My hope is that, with time, she'll digest the reality and come to understand that what she loved about you is still present, and that your relationship can grow stronger if she's able to come to terms with it. Give her time, and do respect her need to work through things. But don't leave it at DADT forever...bring the subject up after a period of time and let her know you're willing to talk more whenever she is. Best of luck.

[MissTee]

Hang in there and be understanding. You'll likely experience a range of unfamiliar emotions as you work through this as a couple. My wife will say that me in a dress is better than me not at all. Hence, I'm told I'm "lucky." My wife and I have lived through the loss of a child and near death of another, and the traumatic loss of a grandchild who lived with us. I was near mortally wounded during my military career. We lived through all that as a couple and, again, Cd-ing is no big deal and she simply cherishes having a good shopping partner. Perspective, I suppose. Good luck.

[UNDERDRESSER]

To start, kudos on your bravery, it's not easy. Second, This part of you post is what gives me hope that you can make it work.
.

- for her to keep loving me, I couldn't bear to lose her

She's worried that this will affect the intimate part of our relationship, and be the beginning of the end of our relationship. I told her I worried about these things too, and that I was dedicated to trying to find a way to avoid these problems, because I loved that part of our relationship too, and felt it was extremely important.

.I assume that your current intimate relationship is with you as a man, yes? And you enjoy that? Is it impossible for her to accept you as a male, her lover, and at other times, a female friend? From what I read on here, many do have this kind of dual relationship.

[PaulaQ]

I assume that your current intimate relationship is with you as a man, yes? And you enjoy that? Is it impossible for her to accept you as a male, her lover, and at other times, a female friend?

Yes, that's right. I don't mind being the man in bed, it is enjoyable. I know she is worried about this aspect of our relationship. I'm unsure she'll be able to handle the oddity of seeing a female version of me. This is definitely outside of her frame of reference.

I'm informed tonight that she's over being shocked, and is now very angry. I wasn't quite sure what to say, other than it is a terrible situation, and that I didn't blame her for feeling anger.

[TeresaCD]

In a sense, Paula, I see that as positive - she's perhaps moving forward in her grief.
I hope things continue to improve as time goes by.

[PaulaQ]

I do too Theresa. We'll see how it goes though. Ultimately, my job in the relationship is to be superman, and bulletproof. Damned pink kryptonite...

[UNDERDRESSER]

In a sense, Paula, I see that as positive - she's perhaps moving forward in her grief.
I hope things continue to improve as time goes by.I think so too. Why is she angry? That is the question. Does she have a point? Can you two get past that? Good luck, we're all rooting for both of you. To your wife, if you ever gets to this point, this is hard for him, most of us haven't had a clue how to deal with this until fairly recently, we had no more frame of reference than you. The common instinct is to repress, hide, feel shame. We shouldn't, but that's what society has pushed on us. Sorry if it has hurt you, we didn't want that, but we literally had no way of figuring this out, until the present day. The information and points of view weren't there.

[PaulaQ]

I think so too. Why is she angry? That is the question. Does she have a point? Can you two get past that?

Why angry:

1. The last few years have been the happiest years of her life. She doesn't want anything to change. She's angry about that.
2. She feels I've given her an ultimatum - accept this, or divorce. That would end the life she loves. I've made no such ultimatum, but it's what she tells herself.
3. She wants the man she loves to stay the same. I'm changing - possibly quite a lot.
4. She wants to grow old here, have grandkids visit here (we don't have any yet), and ultimately die here. Because of this, that is by no means certain.

I've really made no such demands, I've just said "I can't stop this, I think it will really damage me, I've tried before, and it damaged me both times." I don't really like to say something like that - but I believe it is the truth.

She doesn't feel deceived - she understands why I had trouble admitting this to myself. She just doesn't want to accept it, at least not yet.

Look, she likes macho, John Wayne type guys. She was furious with me for a week when I didn't know how to change the headlight in her car. (I'm hopeless at stuff like that - why someone who likes macho men married me is really a mystery to me.)

And yeah, I think she has every right to be angry. I fully anticipated her anger, and sense of loss over the parts of life that she's loved. I'm hoping we can salvage most of this, but I hate what this is doing to her.

When does CD start being fun? Because so far - I hate this. Not as much as I hate myself, but it's up there. I just don't seem to be able to stop. Seriously - when does the magical journey of self-discovery and exploration begin? Because so far, this thing has been like a curse all my life.

[Lisa Gerrie]

She feels I've given her an ultimatum - accept this, or divorce. (...) I've made no such ultimatum,

Hmm, it seems to me that you have. "This is who I am and it is no longer possible for me to ignore it" is pretty much the same as "I have come to accept this, and now you must too." If she truly can't accept it then separation seems inevitable. But my gut says you'll stay together.

Shock, then anger, perfectly natural. The five stages of grief apply here too. Next comes bargaining, or has that already begun?

I can't tell you how much I admire your courage.

[PaulaQ]

Hmm, it seems to me that you have. "This is who I am and it is no longer possible for me to ignore it" is pretty much the same as "I have come to accept this, and now you must too." If she truly can't accept it then separation seems inevitable. But my gut says you'll stay together.



If I don't deal with this, I'm reasonably certain I'll die, or worse. Probably worse. I never die - god doesn't like me that much. :( I don't really see what choice I have - saying "I'll quit" would just be a lie. I hate to be like that, but it is the truth. I'm willing to do what I can to compromise, but if it's all or nothing - the last two bouts I've had with this came pretty close to ending me. And this one is shaping up to be the worst, by a lot.

And yeah, I'm watching my wife through the five stages of grief here. My life experiences probably give me a lot better chance of getting through all this stuff in one piece than many others. I always seem to keep going, and I always get better.

I hope if we can stay together, that it can be in some semblance of happiness. Just staying together, in anger and bitterness, doesn't seem like much of a kind of a life. That's what my grandparent's marriage was like - it was horrible to watch. Maybe that's what I'm reenacting here - except I'm the other woman, too. :|

[TeresaCD]

Expressing myself by crossdressing I would describe as fulfilling, exciting at times, but am starting to believe is a part of what makes me who I am. :o
Definitely not an easy thing though - that's my point.
One day at a time Paula, don't give up, I'm sure she's worth it.
And so are you. :)
You have friends here, I know. Count me as one.

[PaulaQ]

So the first thing my wife said to me tonight was: "You know we're going to end up getting a divorce, right? I'm just not strong enough to deal with this."

She asked my how my visit with my therapist went. I told her about it. I omitted telling her that I prayed for death a lot - I didn't think that would probably help make my case for why we should stay together. (I do pray for death a lot.)

I did give her the name of a therapist / conselor she could meet with, independent of mine, who will maybe help with this issue, if it can be helped.

I told her my therapist and I mostly talked about my anxiety, which we did in fact do.

So she asks "what does wearing clothes do for you? How can that relieve anxiety? What if that isn't enough someday?"

I told her that it didn't make much sense to me either, and that this wasn't well understood scientifically. I told her that I believed this helped me express the feminine side of my personality, and that this part of me was fighting to get out. I told her I couldn't predict the future, and whether or not cross dressing would always be enough. I don't know. I do feel pretty sure that I don't want a sex change. (I omitted mentioning that I'd really ultimately like to have no body hair, and I'd really like breasts. Maybe I'll change my mind about the latter - it isn't a real practical idea.)

I explained to her that I seem to have two personas, and that switching between them is a little weird, and that this is hard to understand for me still. (Maybe that isn't even true - but I think it may be.) I told her that I felt like Lon Chaney, in "The wolfman", this really nice guy, really sad guy - feels cursed. He is cursed, because he's super nice, until he turns into a monster that eats your face. I at least don't maul people. I just put on women's clothes sometimes.

She asked me bluntly "Do you want to look like a woman? Because you DO NOT look like a woman?" So this was a hard question - I temporized, because the answer is "yes, I want to look like a woman, at least part of me IS a woman, I just got really crappy raw material to work with", but I didn't think that would go over well, so I told her "yes, sometimes I want to look like a woman - I need to express that. I know I'll never be pretty - If I can get to 'Mrs. Doubtfire', I'll feel pretty good about it."

"Are you going to want to leave the house - what's the point of looking good if you just stay here?" This was a perceptive question, and the obvious answer to me is "hell yeah, I want to look better and go out of the house, are you kidding me?!?!" But I lied and just said "I dunno hon, I'm not remotely ready to leave the house yet (true), and it's too early to say whether or not I'll want to. (probably a lie)."

In my defense, I feel that refraining from speculation about the future is not quite the same as a lie. (Go easy on me here - re-read the opening remark.)

She asked if this was ever going to stop - since we'd gone through most of our marriage without my cross dressing. I told her that given that this had happened to me a couple of other times in my life, and based on what I read, that I was not optimistic that it would go away. I told her not to count on it, that it was extremely unlikely.

I told her that I was willing to hide this from her so she didn't have to deal with it if it meant I could keep her. I'm hoping we can get past that, but if we can't, I'm hoping that I can mostly keep the cross dressing out of her face. I am willing to try - I don't know what I can promise though, and I told her that, too. There's a very real possibility that there will be no really acceptable middle-ground here. I'm hoping, though, that with some counseling, she'll ease up a little bit. Maybe not though.

Oh yeah - I'm out to another person now. She told one of her friends. Hope she'll keep her mouth shut. If not, well, I hope it's OK for my wife. For me - meh - I don't care. Her friends first words were "this doesn't change how I feel about him." We'll see how it goes. If I lose some friends, well, I'm used to isolation anyway. My wife is not, so I hope it's OK. I did tell her that I didn't mind that she told her best friend - that I didn't want her to feel isolated by this, as I've always been. That isolation is a horrible feeling. I told her this was one of the things I felt guilty about in telling her the truth - the fear that she'd be isolated as well. I still fear this. I hope her friend is discrete.

I did tell her that she should consider the possibility that my feminine side (Paula is as yet unnamed to her - I think that's still too much), has been present all along in our relationship, and that it's likely the part of me that cries in movies, is really sentimental, and is good at shopping. That while this side of me coming out on its own is admittedly weird and new, that if she really thinks about it - it all has to still be me. I think she's still skeptical on this one!

So we finally circled back to the start of the conversation.

I told her that if we just couldn't find a middle ground, if she was physically repulsed by me now, or if she just could not live with me and be happy, that I'd do everything I could do to make it easy on her, and to keep her life here intact. I told here I didn't want to go there, and I'd move heaven and earth, at least the parts that are within my grasp, to keep that from happening. But if it had to happen, I'd rather she be happy, and I'd do what I could to make that happen, even if it was without me.

She did allow that she knew I couldn't sacrifice everything either - that it wasn't right or possible for me to carry the entire burden of this.

We hugged at the end. She told me she hates feeling distant from me, but for now, that's how it has to be.

This is mostly going about as I expected. I'm not optimistic. I intend to keep trying - but I don't think she'll ever adjust to this part of me.

Still, early days. Maybe the counselor will be magical or something. He is supposed to be the best in the state for these issues. Hopefully he doesn't try to convince her of the beauty of helping a man transition into womanhood. The information she's found so far has been all about that - and it scared the hell out of her. (For the record, at least so far, I do not want to have a vagina.)

[Jenni Yumiko]

I feel for you and have heard all of those words come out of my wife's mouth at one point or another. I think, as we discussed before your farther down the gender spectrum than I, but if your wife ever wants to talk to my wife, i'm all for it. Maybe they will get together and realise it's just clothes, or they will decide to get the same divorce lawyer. Who knows. I think though my wife now has some solid evidence that it's not something you catch, so maybe she can help? Im giving demo's until lunch tomorrow but you can yim or text me while I wait for plane :-)
Dont give up, your doing the right thing, and if she wante dto leave you I think she wouldnt be talking to you about it, it would be more yelling and name calling and thigns to taht effect.

[arbon]

You've taken a big step. It could take a while for her and you to really understand just how it is going to change the relationship. The good is at least you are not keeping this big part of you secret anymore and she gets to know you more completely.

[PaulaQ]

The good is at least you are not keeping this big part of you secret anymore and she gets to know you more completely.

Thanks Theresa, I sure hope that's how it ultimately works out. She may never want to know about this part of me, and if not, well, I don't think that hiding from her is really a stable long-term solution. I watched my grandparents and their DADT relationship with my grandfather's second family. I'd rather die alone than watch my wife go through what my grandmother went through. So we'll try it for a time, while the relationship heals up. If we can't get past this, then we just can't.

[Barbara Ella]

Paula, I am so glad to see in your recent post that you two are talking. That is positive, even if some of the thoughts that come out while talking are not totally to either's liking. Getting these diverse thoughts and concerns out on the table is so much better than letting them fester internally. She needs the reassurances you are offering without the specifics right now. Her feelings/thoughts/opinions will change continually from one day to the next, and may be contradictory, but don't point this out, just accept it for the moment and respond with what you can. This is a long haul situation and thoughts of the day are only that, thoughts to build a conversation around. Just keep the conversation going.

Barbara

[DaniG]

Hopefully he doesn't try to convince her of the beauty of helping a man transition into womanhood. The information she's found so far has been all about that - and it scared the hell out of her.

My wife went on a research blitz too, and all the information she found was all about transition. She concluded that pretty much everyone TG/TS transitions, even though we all know that's not true. But there's no evidence or testimonials of anyone who stayed and was successful and happy. I guess to a degree that makes sense because they blend back into life and probably try not to ever think about it again, but it sure would help the rest of us sitting on the fence to be able to look over both sides and get a good evaluation.

So what of it? Is anyone here aware of any data or testimonials of those that opted out of transition long term and were fine? Or does the GD monster get everyone eventually?

Dani

P.S. My wife made me promise to write one of these myself if I decide not to and make it.

[Lorileah]

when confronted with adversity, most people don't think they can make it. And yet they do. There is a lot for your wife to process. You have 2 months on her at least (and really more since you have lived with it your whole life). The nice thing about this forum is that there are women who have been there and they can empathize. When (if) she is ready sometime, we welcome her so she can see that what is out in everyday public, isn't what the majotity are doing (and thus one reason "we" have to work on getting out where "we" can be seen).

Don't let her make her statement a self-fulling prophecy. If she cannot see the other options then divorce will happen. But you both have to derail that train BEFORE it leaves the station (I channel Dr Phil so much it scares me)

[PaulaQ]

So what of it? Is anyone here aware of any data or testimonials of those that opted out of transition long term and were fine? Or does the GD monster get everyone eventually?


I've talked with several girls here who are happy, and have not transitioned. There is absolutely a middle-path, and it is viable for many I think. :)


But you both have to derail that train BEFORE it leaves the station (I channel Dr Phil so much it scares me)

You are right Lorileah. You know something, early on, we faced tough problems when we were first together, and my wife didn't like that I could seem a little passive, a little too concilatory sometimes. And she threatened to go then too. But somehow I always talked her out of it. We'll try it this time too.

@ Barbara Ella - you are right, it is positive that she's still asking questions. Hey, if she shuts me out and makes up her mind, and won't listen to me at all, well, it's a LOT tougher for me to do anything about it. Right now though, I'm still in the game.

[PaulaQ]

My wife and I had a really good talk last night. She went to a therapist who specializes in gender issues. (His child is a FtM transexual so this is real for him.)

She's realized that pulling away from me only hurts us both. She's still mad at me for jeapordizing our future plans, but her therapist pointed out "you know, your husbands transgender or not, most of that stuff you were planning on is totally beyond your control anyway, right?"

She's still worried that if I'm really trans, I'll start hormones and my penis will eventually be gone. She knows that's a possibility. All I could tell her was "hon, I've only understood this about myself for two months. I can't promise where it's going, but I've talked to other girls here who find a middle path and don't transition, and that this is my goal - I don't want our sex life to change. It isn't the only thing about our relationship, but it is a corner-stone, and I don't want to lose it. And honestly, a lot of the steps for transition scare the hell out of me, I'm not ready to think about them, and don't know whether they'll even be right for me."

She told me she's still not ready to see me dress - and that's fine. I agreed to not shave anything else until later. There's time, and we need to go slow. She did say I should shave my legs again, and underdressing was fine. She wants me to feel happy. This is huge progress!

This morning she was telling me she was looking for shoes, and I told her I'd like to shop with her sometimes - I've always liked shoes. So we talked about shoes for me. We both love shoes. Somehow we ended up with her painting my toenails. She said "you know, it's just nail polish, and you can wear socks or slippers around the house and nobody has to see 'em." I am sure I'll return the favor for her and paint her toes.

She's trying HARD - that is my take on this. Really, really hard. When my wife makes up her mind to do something - she does it. I need to be careful not to push too hard, or not to overdo this. And I know there'll likely be times when something that was previously fine will suddenly not be fine. It is give and take, and I've told her that we just need to keep talking, and do what's comfortable for the both of us.

I know we have a LONG way to go, and that there will be setbacks along the way. And I know I need to be super-mindful of her, and to make sure HER needs are met too. I did tell her that her shoe budget was going up, as a start! I am going to be going through a lot of changes here, and I want to be sure she doesn't feel cheated - she needs to feel good too.

BTW, last night and this morning are really a lot more positive than I'd ever dared to hope for. I know there's still a long way to go, and I know there will be hard times, but what a difference, huh?

I really love my wife. Marrying her is the only decision I've ever made in my lifetime that I was 100% sure of. I had NO DOUBT. I'm stunned by what an amazing woman she is. I mean, I knew she was amazing, but she is trying HARD here.

[arbon]

Hi Paula, lots going on for you! I sincerely hope you are able to find a middle ground that works for you :)

[PaulaQ]

Thanks Theresa. We'll just have to see. I'm bound and determined to see this through, explore, be honest with my feelings, and see where it takes me. I know what I want - I want to stay married. But I also know that my gender identity has a mind of it's own, and so what will happen will happen. So I'll try stuff, learn and grow, and we'll see what happens.

My wife and I talked a little about the worst case. If I transition, the marriage is definitely over - she needs a man. She does feel that we'd stay friends and have a close relationship. I agree with her on both counts. I hope it doesn't come to that - but I'm not going to fight this. I'll let it develop, and figure out what I need to do to stay sane and be happy. I'll try my damndest though to make sure that includes my wife, because it is hard to imagine the concept of "happiness" without her in my life.

[mollycd99]

Wow. So many ups and downs I get whiplash just reading! Glad you're on an up note now!

[DaniG]

So thoroughly happy for you, my friend. I do hope she can go the distance, and you can be what she needs! Whatever happens, enjoy the here and now together. XXX

[andrea lace]

At least you can now move out of Liarsburg City Hall. Well done for being so brave.
Hope all goes well for you and your wife.

[PaulaQ]

At least you can now move out of Liarsburg City Hall

!!!
I - I never thought of that! I am speechless.

[Stevie]

Great to hear that you are making progress with this.

[TeresaCD]

Good news Paula. I am happy that she is coming to terms with it.
I get to have pretty toenails too! :)
(Feels funny under steel capped labourer's boots)
Keep rolling along, showing her how much she means to you.

[AmyGaleRT]

Paula, I'm so happy for you. Things appear to be going really, really well so far. Just stay focused on her and let her continue to get used to the idea.

I'm probably one of the girls you use as an example. I can't abandon my male self, and don't really want to, but neither do I want to keep the girl bottled inside. And I'm feeling more "centered" as my Amy-self than I have been.

Perhaps one day you'll get to a situation like I have, where I can walk into the living room and ask my fiancee, "How do I look? Is my makeup all right?" Then I go back into the bedroom to get my purse and have her say, "Love you, be safe!" as I walk out the front door.

- Amy

[Sonya]

i wish you good luck, i had exactly the same emotions as you in regards to my wife. I felt terrible (i still do) about how much me being a CD hurt her and how helpless i felt because i just couldn't change. I would always regret not telling her before marriage and i have to live with that.

[PaulaQ]

Well, we had a good weekend, but a bad day today. One of our kids visited over the weekend, and it was nice. However, today, my wife wants nothing to do with me. She's sad because she feels like life will never be normal again. My step-son looks up to me - he said it many times over the weekend. I think the idea that I'm something other that what he knows bothers her, and that to her, it seems like our world is changing forever.

I don't really blame her for feeling this way - it is probably true that things will never be exactly the same again, and that they'll change a lot.

Hopefully she'll feel better in a day or two, and spend a little more time with me.

I know two steps forward / one step back is pretty normal. And I don't, for a minute, blame her for how she feels. I've had all these same emotions myself.

[Stevie]

That is very difficult. She is looking out for the best interest of the children. I have a hard time dealing with the same issue.

[TeresaCD]

No doubt your world is changjng, Paula, hopefully for the better in the end. Love the new avatar, btw!

[Thalia]

I'd been married for 15 1/2 yrs. when I had the same conversation with my wife. Initially she took the news similarly to your wife, but that didn't last long. My wife was in counseling for two years. That was about four years ago and we're still together but not because she has accepted on some level, my crossdressing. She and I are no longer intimate, haven't been for over three years. When we were married we were the best of friends and it is upon that foundation that we are able to stay together. We are living together as partners in life without any intimacy. Amazingly, our friends and family have no idea because we chose not to tell. We both realize our lives are better off together than apart. I occasionally visit this site because I'm curious how others in our situation are doing. I hope some day my wife will "want me" again.
Amazingly, since I told her - as much as I enjoyed crossdressing and had an extensive wardrobe - I cut all ties with my crossdressing friends and have not even once felt I wanted to cross dress. The entire experience was so tramatic for me (witnessing the difficut time my wife had with my admission) it has taken the joy out of it. I believe your fears for the future are valid.

[suchacutie]

Hi Paula. I was traveling last week and didn't see this thread. I do think that my experiences might give you and your wife a bit of a different perspective on what you are discussing.

I had no idea I was transgendered until 7 years ago. My wife and I discovered "Tina" together (PM me if you want to know those details). What immediately fascinated her was that it was clear that Tina had been there hiding all along, so my wife wanted to know what Tina was like! I was as curious as she, so we immediately made some working agreements that have stood us in good stead:

1) I am not changing my male role in our relationship. I committed to that male role upon marriage and I will not go back on my commitment. The codicil to that is "when she wants her man, she gets him". There are just times that she wants the regular relationship and I think it's totally unfair to deny that to her, especially considering that she is completely supportive of giving life to Tina!

2) Tina is a joint project between the two of us, and is private. Your wife has already gone beyond that. I'm not sure if that will be positive in the long run, but that's where you are.

3) My wife is completely heterosexual, so she and Tina are platonic girlfriends. Frankly, that stipulation has made the friendship between my wife and Tina just terrific! Tina "comes to visit" and they do "girl things" that my male self just could never put up with. How Tina enjoys chick-flicks is beyond my comprehension!

Now, how does this work? The short answer is: very well! The details are even more important:

1) We started talking about what it is to grow up as a girl, and the intimacy of comparing our experiences growing up (with my wife knowing that I was incredibly interested) was amazing. We shared things that didn't seem to be important or even a reasonable topic of conversation before!

2) She started educating Tina about the mechanics of being a girl. She treated Tina as if she were growing up slowly and let Tina experience the process (albeit at a rapidly accelerated rate) from shaping eyebrows (a multiyear project) to makeup to fashion sense to deportment to explaining what girls do and when they do it! Nothing was off the table and she corrected at every turn. When she had Tina try on one of her dresses and it became clear that Tina didn't have enough "on top", it was off to order breastforms. When it came to hair, it was my wife explaining what style would initially work best (it did!).

3) My wife engaged Tina in converstions about her likes and dislikes, even when Tina wasn't sure how to answer. We wanted to understand Tina and this was amazingly helpful.

4) As we understood Tina more, we simultaneously began to understand my masculine side more as well. The person who I was had been a bit of a blend, and now it's actually easier to be more masculine! I'm sure your wife has not thought about that, but right now I'm pretty sure that your gender identity is a bit confused. For example, once you are adept at walking in heels, Paula's gait and your male gait will separate. You will actually walk more like a male in masculine mode! So, if your wife wants more of a masculine man, she very well might get her wish by having you understand who Paula is!

5) Tina is now pretty well understood, so she's become a virtual person. My wife and I talk about her (of course, Tina and my wife talk about me!). Something will come up and one of us might say, "Tina would handle that real well!". That separation of the masculine and feminine part of you can be eye-opening and very positive!

6) Tina has allowed my wife and I to recommit to our relationship in ways we never imagined. We are closer and share more of everything. After all, no subject is off the table of interest! Obviously, we share beauty products. We share ideas about how to improve our aging skin! We share clothing ideas. We love to shop together. The list is endless. However, I'm still the person who fixes the broken whatever, throws around the chain saws when necessary, paints the house, plants the garden, and basically gets dirty when needed. Tina wouldn't think about getting dirty, but there is a whole list of things that belong to her world!

Fundamentally, we have found that having a husband and a platonic girlfriend can be just incredibly positive! The key is to explore this together. Your wife can very well be Paula's mentor, knowing that her man is only 30 minutes away (time to transition back) at any time!

Please feel free to show her this entry if you think it will help. I do hope that the spirit of love between you will win out. It can be a terrific life!

[EmilyPith]

Suchacutie, your post gave me chills... some serious similarities to Emily's emergence here!

PaulaQ... there is hope, take each day as an adventure, and stay positive!

[PaulaQ]

I had a reasonably good session with my therapist today, dressed as Paula. I think I was a little scattered and all over the place, but I felt good.

I'm not feeling so good tonight now that my wife is back home. She's really depressed. She said "eat dinner without me, I'm going to go bury my head under the covers." I asked "Is there anything I can do or say, hon?" She said "Don't feel what you are feeling anymore," and went upstairs.

She's not sleeping well.

Tomorrow night will be interesting. We have a regular dinner with friends. I wonder if I should go?

I thought maybe her change of attitude on Friday was maybe a little too much, too soon. We'll see, I suppose.

[Stevie]

Paula give her some time. She has a lot to think about. Let her bring it up. I know it is hard but pushing the issue is not good.

[PaulaQ]

You are right Stevie. I am terrible about leaving things alone that need to be left alone for a while. It's only been a little over a week.

[PaulaQ]

We had a long talk tonight. She's worried that her life, which is about perfect right now, is going to change. She's worried that I'm going to change. She hates the idea of even small changes in me. If I stop functioning as a male (she's convinced this will happen) we're pretty much done as a married couple.

I told her that if she couldn't abide me changing and couldn't stand the sight of me, I was prepared to leave and give her basically everything, and do what I could to keep her in her present life. That I loved her enough that if this process, wherever it goes, is like watching me die from cancer, I'd rather she not have to go through that, and find a way to be happy - that I don't want her to suffer like that. She pointed out that she suffers anyway, no matter what, which I know is true. She doesn't really want to throw 20 good years away though. She does care about me. She discussed having me move downstairs, staying married, and just having a platonic relationship. (She'd need to find another lover, and doesn't like that prospect much.) Of course, I have no idea if any of this will happen or not. Who knows if I'm even TS? I sure don't.

[Angela Campbell]

I wish I could help or even give advice but I am the last one who would know what to do. My divorce was finalized in court last Monday. My second one. I don't think relationships is my strong point. Keep your head up though, sometimes things seem the worst and in the long run it is not as it seems. Sounds like you are doing what your heart feels like the right thing. Being as unselfish as this will at least keep your conscience clean.

[Rachel M]

I trust her friend. She's a civil and gay rights activist. Her own family won't speak to her - hasn't spoken to her in years because she's married to a woman. I think she'll help.

I really don't care what happens to me here. I'm more worried about my wife. I wish I hadn't done this to her.
So one of the conditions when I came out to my wife was not to expect her to burden my secret alone. I had to give her a green light to speak with a friend in confidence. This help with the dialogue towards acceptance and tolerance. Over time i was surprised at how many she shared with. She used great discretion in who she told as they were people I could have outed myself to.

[PaulaQ]

I spent part of the night on the couch. She came and got me at 5AM. I lied and told her I laid down because I wasn't feeling well.

I'm pretty furious with her. I think that it drives her nuts that this isn't about her. She complained last night that I seem to enjoy sex more now - she actually complained about that. She's quite worried about what I'm going through, and how it will impact her sex life. She's never spent much time worrying about mine, I can tell you that. I was sitting there thinking "wow, I pray for death lots of nights, and you are mostly worried about sex. OK." Her perfect little life is going to be upset, possibly, and this is just intolerable. (I'm thinking "wow, like my life isn't going to be disrupted?")

Our relationship works as long as I'm the one doing the giving. I give and give and give and give. This time I need help - so we're in trouble.

I am on my own here.

[TeresaCD]

Sounds, Paula, like a bad day.
I'm thinking right now she has no idea what to think, and is probably wondering what she did wrong to make this happen (only a guess)
You are never alone - I know that now :)
Hang in there..

[PaulaQ]

I'm thinking right now she has no idea what to think, and is probably wondering what she did wrong to make this happen (only a guess)


She's told me exactly what she's thinking:
1. I'm going to transition. She's sure of this. (I'm glad one of us is!)
2. This will disrupt her home life - we'll sell our home and split up. Where will the grandkids play? The grandkids! (Note: we have no grandchildren at this time, nor any on the way.)
3. This will really affect her sex life.
4. She will have to get a fulltime JOB! A JOB!

I think she also feels bad that I'm not happier. I am also fairly sure she doesn't understand the extent to which I am an unhappy person. I think she's vaguely offended that she isn't making me feel great about myself. (With all I do for her, how could I not feel great?)

I'd thought, when I told her this, that she'd feel grief about the man she loved, as if I were dying or something. Or horror that I'm so screwed up. Or something about me - at least a little bit. I felt a lot of guilt over this.

No, I think it's just about losing the stuff we have, and disrupting her perfect little life. That's it. :( (BTW, I knew this stuff would bother her, and it should - I just didn't think it would be the MAIN thing that bothered her.)

It really is just that shallow, and just that selfish. I feel completely disposable, just a piece of trash, human garbage to her.

I'm glad she agrees we need some couple's counseling. You know what though? At this point, I'm not even sure I want to resolve this anymore. I have done a LOT for her and her family. A LOT. So I have the worst problem of my life - and it's just too much for her to even consider helping me? (I could use a tiny bit of sympathy.) The stuff and her life here is more important than I am? The house is more important than I am? Her sex life is more important than I am?

Yeah, apparently so. At least that's what she's telling me.

Sorry, I'm just really angry today!

[suzy1]

I hate to say this but your description of your wife sounds a lot like my ex.
We divorced for different reasons but when I looked back on our marriage latter I realized that she only thought of herself. All the affection she showed for me was a sort of act. Doing what she thought she should do as a wife.
My sons and daughter could not believe I didn’t see what was going on at the time.
And that’s how it is sometimes in a marriage that’s not working.

There are a lot of comments on this forum about saving a marriage at all costs and little about getting out of it while you still have your sanity!

Sometimes divorce is the best thing you can do. It was for me. It just might be for you too Paula.
But only you can answer that.

All the best,

Suzy

[Angela Campbell]

In truth this is how my last marriage was, A little different though. She really did nothing for me at all. At first I tended to her every need, I would wake her up with massages and coffee in bed, I did all the housework, cooking, cleaning, laundry. After a while I noticed she did nothing for me and even ignored me completely at most times. She wanted to stay up all night but had to get to work at 5:00 in the morning so she would come home from work, eat and go to bed, and about the time I went to bed in the evening she would get up. We didn't sleep together for years because of this and she could never understand why it was a problem. She refused any physical contact, no kissing, no hand holding, no cuddling, sex became a job of what I had to do for her and then it was ok if I wanted to enjoy too but not if she had to do anything. Eventually she told me she didn't care if we ever had sex again, and actually lived up to that. She would spend hours talking on the phone to her sister but didn't have time to talk to me for 10 minutes. If we were watching tv she would sometimes get tired of the show - one she picked out - and just turn off the tv and walk away with me sitting there wondering if I was invisible. Hey wasn't I watching tv too? And she was surprised when she told me she wanted to move out that I said ok and helped her move. She actually thought I would beg her to stay and is still shocked I let it go as far as a divorce. She told me she will never understand how I could just "turn it off".

She also was surprised I didn't like the idea of her moving to the guest room and us living kind of like roomates, of course with me paying all the bills, her car insurance, all the groceries, all living expenses and her just paying her car payment, student loan and her beauty shop and nails costs. Oh yes a birthday gift for every one in her office all year but never more than a card for me for 8 years.

I hope your situation is not the same and it is just fear and stress driving both of you. I tried for four years to get my ex to notice me, and it just wasn't to be. When I just gave up and stopped trying and basically treated her the same way she was treating me, she decided it was not working.

[Stevie]

I personally do not believe in divorce. But sounds like she is telling you that everything you two did to get to this point was end the end result she envisioned. Was she there for you when you were dealing with other problems? If so I can see what she is saying then. is she so deeply hurt that she is having a hard time telling you how she feels. It seems that she has a sense that you want to transition. Is this something you want to be or can you come to a compromise with her. I wish I had an answer that would help, even though we are all here dealing with similar issues we are all unique in our own world. My wife isn't accepting and I have put several strains on our marriage. I have to prove to her that I love her and is committed to our family. She has put up with me dressing and at the same time reminded me how she feels which is not positive. I know I have feminine feelings but also know I'm a guy and like to do manly things. This is what my wife wants to see. What does your wife want to see in you to make this work.

[flatlander_48]

There is a saying: "When you're up to your a++ in alligators, it's hard to remember that the initial objective was to drain the swap.".

Humans often have difficulty in dealing with change. We like stability and LACK of change. I can see how one partner might not react well to the news that potentially could turn a presumably stable situation into chaos. The reality may be that the chances of any major change are fairly small, but we often hear how we THINK things are and not the way they really are. Simply put, it's driven by our fears.

I didn't check the chronology, so I don't know how long things have been going one. However, I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while for the churning to die down and substantive talking can take place.

[Lisa Gerrie]

Paula, I think you're both being self-centered, and that's a good thing. This is important sh*t! It will affect the rest of your lives together or apart. It's healthy to mentally explore splitting up, to be angry at her, for her to be angry at you, for her to mentally explore splitting up...

"Churning" is a great word. Churn away! But don't do anything permanent until you both settle down. Eventually the question might return to "how are we going to handle this?".

[PaulaQ]

Paula, I think you're both being self-centered, and that's a good thing.


I can see how one partner might not react well to the news that potentially could turn a presumably stable situation into chaos. The reality may be that the chances of any major change are fairly small, but we often hear how we THINK things are and not the way they really are. Simply put, it's driven by our fears.

Yeah, these both describe what is going on fairly well I think.

So some updates - I should start by saying that after two weeks of my wife being angry, freezing me out, and arguing with me, I got angry myself, so some of the remarks I made about her earlier are overly harsh. Yeah, she has a strong sense of entitlement, and yeah, that was angering me something fierce. But we really do love one another, and we like each other as well. We are really good friends.

Today was really a rollercoaster ride. The day didn't start out so well. We spent the evening last night at a local car show. This was fun. She was wondering, though, if she'd even want to spend the next one with me in a month, much less our anniversary together in July. She was that uncertain she wanted to be with me anymore. She just didn't think she could do this - that I would change more than she could handle. (She doesn't want any changes in me, and no doubt, I'm changing. She doesn't want ANYTHING to change.)

So I pointed out that splitting up was going to be a pretty big change. And then I talked to her about how I really feel about myself. I hate myself. I've always hated myself. I hate my body. I pray for death quite frequently, and I've thought about death quite a bit over the past couple of months. So she talked about how much it would hurt her and our kids if I killed myself - and I told her I knew that, and had been forthcoming with my therapist and physician about these thoughts, and that I thought I was over the crisis. I did tell her that I felt like god hated me - that I was, and always had been, the butt of some cruel cosmic joke. So she told me many things about me that she thought were positive, and I think she's genuinely shocked and saddened about how I feel.

It's hard to stay mad at someone who does something like that. So I talked about why I was mad - at least one reason. I didn't give her an ultimatum, I told her "hey hon, I'm having serious problems here - you need to know. Do with that information what you will." We argued a little more about that - she pointed out she could've just thrown me out when I told her, and I said "yes, I appreciate that, but I am a little hurt you felt like I gave you an ultimatum. I've told you how bad a shape I was in emotionally - there was no way in good conscience that I couldn't tell you." So we settled that.

We talked about going to town today. We'd planned a week ago to go, and get pedicures together, and measure me for women's shoes. So I asked "what is the purpose of going? I mean, you hate this and don't want to deal with it - you tell me you can't accept this, or are you feeling more accepting?" So she tells me "No, but don't read anything more into this than what it is. I can handle seeing you with nail polish, and I think it will help you. If we know your shoe size, you'll have an easier time shopping online for shoes. I don't have to see them, but I'll have helped."

So despite spending a couple of hours in a fairly heated discussion, we went to town. We stopped for breakfast, we listened to music we both liked in the car, it was a beautiful day, and we both chatted and enjoyed each other's company. Surprising really, for how the day started. We measured my feet (I'm size 12 / 12W), and we bought her a couple of pairs of shoes at the department store. (She got some really pretty platforms.) Sadly, nothing in size 12 there.

We bought some scented lotions and moisturizers for the both of us next. Then we went to the nail salon in the mall and got pedicures together. I chose the same polish as her. She was nervous about me getting a color at all, and when the woman next to her looked at me, my wife chimed in "he lost a bet, and is being a good sport." So I played along with that. I think this was hard for her. But we did it. It was a lot of fun really - I've never had a pedicure before.

We looked for some clothes for her, didn't find anything. We hit another couple of shoe stores, and the only 12's I could find were some sorta cute flip flops. She scored another cute pair of shoes for herself. (I'm hoping she'll see the advantages of shopping with me.)

At one point during the day, she admitted she really didn't want to think about being with anybody else but me. We have a lot of history, and most of it is really good. And we are friends. I told her "promise me, no matter what happens, we'll stay friends - you are my best friend."

After all that we went to a nice restaurant, and had a really wonderful dinner together. It was a really nice day. She did tell me at one point that she was thinking about things like shoes abstractly, without seeing me in them. On the other hand, once we got home, she asked to see me in the flip flops.

So despite a lot of really heavy discussions, and anger all weekend, today ended up as a really good day. I know this is still hard for her, and I don't really see it not becoming hard. But I know she understands how desperate of a shape I'm in emotionally. She wants me to be whole and happy, regardless of what happens to us. She wants to help me how she can - although she has lots of limits.

I talked with her a lot more today about my feelings. She's still stunned that she had absolutely no clue about what I was going through. I was a little rocky emotionally, and that's all she knew. It was nice to be able to talk to someone.

So I still don't know how this will turn out, we've gone from wanting to split up to not wanting to be apart and to grow old together in the span of a few hours today. I guess, though, you never know how a relationship will turn out, so why should this be any different.

So we'll keep trying. I'll try not to drive her nuts with what I'm going through. We'll both get counseling, and we'll likely do some couple's counseling. Maybe this will be too hard for her and we won't make it. Maybe I'll change too much. Maybe she'll grow a little more accepting and we'll meet somewhere in the middle. Time will tell, I guess.

We'll keep churning away for now.

[TeresaCD]

Hey Paula, really glad you got to be straight up with her, and that the day ended up well :)

[Angela Campbell]

What a rollercoaster ride. For both of you.

[Stevie]

Good to hear that she's talking to you.

[flatlander_48]

The journey of a 1000 miles begins with the first step...

[Jenni Yumiko]

Wow I really missed a lot on your progress, I'm sorry. Well that's good that you guys are talking and the fact that your arguing about it also means a lot as she coulda just left or kicked you out. I hope things go well for you!

[PaulaQ]

We talked some more tonight, after she got home from therapy. It's interesting to talk now - I told her that I'm not going to hide anything from her, but I also am in kind of a funny position because she doesn't want me to tell her more than she can handle. I think of it as "controlled truth." For example, she told me that her therapist was at the same facility, leading a youth TG group, that I was at last night. I told her that the next time I go, I'll try to meet him. She told me that she didn't have a picture of me on her phone to show him. Here's where the controlled truth comes in - I DID NOT SAY: "That's OK hon, I crossdressed for that meeting, the picture on your phone wouldn't have helped..." :lol:

She told me she screamed in frustration and anguish for a minute or two after we got off the phone last night after my first TG support group meeting. I told her it was useful, and it was nice to meet some others who have the same issues as me. She had hoped that I wouldn't find it useful, and tell her "wow, those people are CRAZY - I am sooo not one of them." Alas, that is not the case - I am transgendered. I told her that I secretly had hoped the same thing. (Which is true, I did hope that - until the other girls started talking, and I realized I was *exactly* like them.)

She said her therapist insists that I'm the same person - that being transgendered just happens to some people, but that while their bodies may change, they are the same person. My wife feels like physical changes are very tangible changes, that they change her attraction to me, and that I'm changing as a person. It's weird for her, I know - because we'll have days like sunday where we finish each other's sentences, and laugh about old memories, and just generally have a wonderful time being together. And then she'll think about me with breasts or something - and it's VERY different. I can appreciate what she's going through - I feel like I've been falling down the rabbit hole for about three months now.

She doesn't feel like she has any good options. She's sad being with me. She's afraid the relationship won't survive, that she won't want a physical relationship with me. But she doesn't want to be alone either, and doesn't want to lose me. I told her that I feel much the same way - that I love her, and that I don't want to lose her. She's afraid that she'll hold me back, keep me from becoming a whole, well person, in an attempt to save the marriage. I told her no, that I would tell her what I needed to do, as honestly as I could. That I'd try to pace things to give her time to catch up, but that if we reached a point where she simply could not bear what was happening, we'd deal with it. It would be hard, but there would be no blame. We can each only bear so much. If this goes beyond her measure - well, it just does.

I told her that she was actually responding better than I'd expected or hoped, and that I felt like we had a decent chance to get through this, if we kept talking and just took things one day at a time. I told her that I knew how much she cared, how hard this was for her, and just how hard she is trying to deal with this, and to help me. I told her that I appreciate it with every fiber of my being, and that if it just can't work between us - if I change too much, there would be no blame from me, because I know she's doing all she can.

What more could I ask of someone?

[mollycd99]

Hugs

Hooping for both your sakes it improves

[PaulaQ]

Thanks Molly, me too. But you know what? I hope my last post didn't sound too sad. I'm really not so sad or worried. What will happen, will happen. My marriage is worth saving, but it isn't worth my life or my sanity. (Nothing is worth either of those two things.) I'll fight for my marriage, and I believe now my wife will too. Maybe that will be enough, maybe it won't. But it really is the best anyone can do.

I think the main thing I can do is to try to make sure the time we have together is as good as possible. Who knows how much we have left? But then, how is that different from ANYTHING in this life? Maybe the bad will overwhelm whatever good I can do - but maybe not, and maybe that will be the key?

[BlairP]

Good for you. I am proud of you.

[AmyGaleRT]

Paula dear, my heart goes out to you and your wife. I want you both to be happy. :hugs:

- Amy

[PaulaQ]

Had interesting conversation at dinner.

My wife (K) says "I was kinda freaked out last night", and I was like "well, yeah, but you'd had a hard day and a session with your therapist, and you weren't sleeping. So it was to be expected."
K: "So we don't have to talk about this stuff every day?"
P: "Nope, let's not mention it"

So then she totally starts asking me questions:
K: "So what'd you buy the other day, no pants right? You didn't buy anything pink did you?"
P: "I bought some jeans, cargos, a couple of capris, and some tops, a couple pink, one orange, one blue, and some sandals."
K: "I thought you'd buy skirts?"
P: "I may exchange something for a skirt and a blouse - I thought about that."
K: "wasn't that weird? I guess they thought you were shopping for someone else?"
P: "Nah, they knew it was for me, I got a fitting room. I don't care what people think. The SA was nice - I called first to make sure it wouldn't bother anyone."
K: "Well, that was nice of you to call."
P: "It was a little hard to try on shoes out in public, but I did that too."
K: "So do you like wearing the stuff?"
P: "Yes, very much so." (Not the answer she was hoping for!)
K: "Would it help if I gave you some mascara and eyeshadow colors I don't use?"
P: "Sure hon - I'd love it. I appreciate how hard this is for you, and how hard you are trying, and as I said last night, I appreciate it with every fiber of my being. I love you!"
K: "It's OK, I guess, if you shave your chest if you need to."
P: "You sure? I think I'd get it waxed in Tulsa, lasts longer, and less stubble."
K: "Geeze, that hurts - are you nuts? I hate getting waxed!"

K: "There's a wig store in Tulsa"
P: "I'd like to check it out sometime, but I have a wig, just so you know. I'm sorry to spring stuff on you, but I am trying to only tell you stuff when you ask - I don't want to push stuff on you."
K: "Is it long? What color is it?"
P: "It's dirty blonde, probably close to my original natural color when I was younger, and it's medium length, curls around my face. It's nice - my therapist liked it."
K: "You showed your therapist?!?"
P: "Yes, via skype."

We talk about other stuff after that.

So we go home, watch some TV, and she tells me this is all really hard, and crys on my chest a little bit. She tells me there's not enough wine in the world to solve this for her. She tells me that she keeps thinking about the future, what may happen. I tell her I know, and that I'm so sorry. I hold her for a little while. She takes a bath, comes to bed with me.

She is really trying hard. I feel bad this is so hard for her. But she's really moving fast too.

[Jenni Yumiko]

It really sounds like she is trying to accept and be supportive, just all her previous knowledge is telling her wtf run away. Yur relationship seems strong and I really think you guys will pull through happily together.
My offer still stands if she wants to talk to my wife, although not sure how that would pan out. :-)

[Maria 60]

Hey Paula you did the right thing, the more time that would have went on the longer the secret. I am no expert but seems like your both thinking what's going to happen tomorrow but your not giving tomorrow a chance to come. One day at a time would be a better idea and then see which road it leads you and if things don't look good you can always change roads, so far nothing you said or did is carved in stone there's lot of room for change or compromise believe it or not this could be a win win situation. My wife is a big supporter of my dressing but as much at times she has to bend I can't be selfish either I have to think about her to and I do feel you are also thinking about her. It sounds like you both love each other and now you are going to have to get her back to the talking table and try to think about today and hopefully it will lead you to a happy tomorrow together. I hope you keep us updated.

[suchacutie]

Hi Paula. I've continued reading this thread hoping that a certain tide would turn. Specifically I was hoping that your wife would begin to see the positive aspects and start to focus on those. Yes, life can change, but it doesn't have to be a negative, it could be a tremendous positive! It also will certainly be easier for both of your gendered selves if she sees the positives, and likely will help you keep both of your gendered selves, not losing anything!

I do so hope for the positive for both of you!

[flatlander_48]

You can read a lot into how people speak. I think the trick in these kinds of discussions where you never know when you're going to sneak up on a minefield, is to try to stay relaxed and even. When you're presenting new information that has the potential to kickstart a nasty discussion, the relaxed and even approach lends the sense that you're not trying to create a charged situation or flaunt something. It has the effect of giving the other person, in this case your wife, even more to be p+++ed about. The conversation will quickly degenerate and that isn't what either of you want. As I said before, you have to communicate in such a way as to continue to be heard. Once people get upset, it's VERY hard to be angry and hear what the other person is trying to say at the same time.

Obviously we can't tell what the speech, tone and inflections were like from the text. However, the text by itself seems pretty even and low key.

Good for you!

[PaulaQ]

@Jenn, Maria & Tina - thanks for your support!

@flatlander - yes, my voice was very calm. My wife was too. I'm almost always calm - at least on the surface. I'm so calm that it's often difficult to tell when I'm really upset. But in this case, I was calm, and happy to answer her questions. It's a little bit of a difficult dance though. I want to be honest, but I don't want to overwhelm her. So I admitted to having a wig, but I didn't tell her that I had a nice set of breast forms. I did tell her where I got the wig - so it wouldn't be difficult to guess that I might well have purchased forms from the same store, but she didn't ask that, so I didn't tell her. I didn't want to freak her out. I am trying to think of this as "controlled doses of the truth."

I also haven't told her that I have a small collection of cosmetics. (Drug store stuff mostly - I really need to go to the mall for a makeover, and to buy some better quality stuff.) Still, while I'm learning the basics, I figure the cheaper stuff is better - I suck at applying it still, so wasting it is a little less painful.

I am feeling more positive about the future. I think we have a chance. There's still a long way to go, and so many unknowns though. My wife is a hell of a woman though, and she's trying hard, and this is something she's so ill prepared for.

[flatlander_48]

@Jenn, Maria & Tina - thanks for your support!

@flatlander - yes, my voice was very calm. My wife was too. I'm almost always calm - at least on the surface. I'm so calm that it's often difficult to tell when I'm really upset. But in this case, I was calm, and happy to answer her questions. It's a little bit of a difficult dance though. I want to be honest, but I don't want to overwhelm her.

I said that you were doing good, but Hell, I didn't say it was going to be easy!?!?!?


So I admitted to having a wig, but I didn't tell her that I had a nice set of breast forms. I did tell her where I got the wig - so it wouldn't be difficult to guess that I might well have purchased forms from the same store, but she didn't ask that, so I didn't tell her. I didn't want to freak her out. I am trying to think of this as "controlled doses of the truth."

Yes, at places where I've worked, we call it Managing The News...


I also haven't told her that I have a small collection of cosmetics. (Drug store stuff mostly - I really need to go to the mall for a makeover, and to buy some better quality stuff.) Still, while I'm learning the basics, I figure the cheaper stuff is better - I suck at applying it still, so wasting it is a little less painful.

I am feeling more positive about the future. I think we have a chance. There's still a long way to go, and so many unknowns though. My wife is a hell of a woman though, and she's trying hard, and this is something she's so ill prepared for.

Continued Good Luck...

One other thing: For things that you haven't told her about yet, make CERTAIN that she doesn't find out before you discuss it. Remember, (1) Oh S++t cancels (12) Atta Girls, At Least...

[PaulaQ]

I said that you were doing good, but Hell, I didn't say it was going to be easy!?!?!?
Heh, sorry flatlander, I meant to thank you for your support and friendship too! You've given me a lot of really solid advice and encouragment, and I genuinely appreciate it.


One other thing: For things that you haven't told her about yet, make CERTAIN that she doesn't find out before you discuss it. Remember, (1) Oh S++t cancels (12) Atta Girls, At Least...
Yeah, for sure. She does understand, though, that I'm witholding some info until she asks for it. She is realistic about this, and knows that telling me "be honest - but don't let me see anything" is a very difficult situation for me too. I've made it clear that we just have to keep communicating, and as she's ready for things, I'm willing to talk to her about anything.

The only thing I'm really worried about is her finding out that I am trying to go out to my TG support meetings while dressed as Paula. I dunno - I could go in drab, but I don't really want them to get to know that other guy. It wouldn't be a big deal - there were other girls there who didn't present as female for the meeting. (One girl works in a correctional facility and, yeah, not a trans friendly workplace, as you might expect.) I just don't feel like taking half measures - if I'm going to try this, I'm going to try it all the way. I want to know as much as possible if it is or isn't right for me.

[flatlander_48]

No problem, I was just messing with you!!

I understand what you say in the last paragraph. It is experiential and there is no substitute for it. Is there some way that you can leave home in your regular clothes, locate Superman's phone booth and do the business (as the English say)? Realizing that you have 2 conflicting needs (your desires to dress and your wife's desire to not see you dressed), is there some compromise that would work?

[PaulaQ]

Yeah, I am definitely looking for a 'phone booth'. I can possibly change at the center. I also bet one of the other girls would let me change at her place. I just need to make the friendship and ask. I don't want to drive around locally dressed, my car is quite unique in the area, there would be no mistaking me.

edit: I'm also wondering whether or not to try to meet my wife's therapist in person at the center. He leads a youth TG group there. I want to thank him in person for helping her, but I'd also feel sort of bad for him to see me before she does.

OH yeah, one other thought - one thing that I didn't ever anticipate was that my wife loves me for the way I look. I hate myself enough that it never occurred to me that she'd love me BECAUSE of how I look, in part, rather than IN SPITE OF how I look. My own distorted self-image at work here made me misjudge this really badly.

[flatlander_48]

Might be useful to put the question to the therapist before you try to find the person. Bit of an odd situation, though...

[EmilyPith]

Wow, Paula, you are a very brave strong person. What a long way the two of you have come in the past few months!

[Lisa Jeffreys]

Paula, that was an amazing story. I hope one day when I find myself involved with a special lady that I have one tenth of the courage to tell her as openly and honestly as you did.

Lisa

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Paula, I just set here and read all of your posts on this thread it sounds that your wife can't live with you and she can't live without you.
it sounds like that she is going to come around at some point but no time soon good luck on this one.

[traci_k]

Paula,
Oh the rollercoaster. But keep positibe. You two are still talking, want to work things out and she's still asking questions and you're answering honestly. I pray that love, friendhip and understanding will win the day.
Hugs

[PaulaQ]

So I'm rather smooth now - I waxed my chest and arms today. My wife's initial reaction wasn't terribly positive. She hates that it's different. :( I feel a *lot* better though - I'd hate my body so much, and the hair was really bothering me. I'd almost rather have had scales than that hair. Ugh! I know this is completely irrational - but I really do feel a lot better. I guess this is what gender dysphoria is like. Yuck.

I also found out that I'm "out" to more people than I knew. My wife had lunch with two of her girlfriends today, one who already knew, and another one who didn't. She told her other friend, who isn't one of the people who I'd preferred to have known about this. Her other friend drinks quite a bit, and gossips a lot, and doesn't sound too accepting of this. My wife didn't enjoy her lunch too much though - her friends were so busy supporting her / bashing me that I don't think she had a very good time of it.

This is all very hard for her. I kind of figured this would happen though. My wife is a very trusting person. I hope her telling doesn't backfire on her. (I also hope it doesn't backfire on me too badly - I don't really want to move away.)

She also told another coworker about what's going on with her, this woman is also our neighbor. She sounded more accepting - she apparently knows drag queens and knows where to buy shoes. Go figure - I'd have never guessed that.

I assume I'll be out to everyone I know fairly soon. Guess I'll find out who my real friends are. Best guess - I don't actually have any here. Well, at least my wife will have some support.

I have a couple of social gatherings to attend with these people soon. I won't really know who knows, and who doesn't. I'm not sure I want to go to any of them anymore. It would be really ugly if someone made a scene about the whole mess. Or maybe I'll just sort of be frozen out of the conversation. I dunno. Hopefully she doesn't get frozen out / univited from stuff.

It's a teeny little rural town. Real conservative. There will be gossip, almost certainly. People can be petty.

Maybe I should just tell everyone I know in town now? At least that way I'd get to tell my side of the story.

[Wildaboutheels]

Paula [IMO] there will be at least some people in any town [regardless of size] "sharp enough" to interact with you as they always have in the past regardless of what they have been told/heard/think they know. They are not going to allow gossip, inuendo and speculation to ruin whatever Relationship they have with you built up over who knows how many years. They may or may not care to hear "your side" of the story [from YOU] but I would not volunteer it unless they ask if I were in your shoes.

Did you do the waxing yourself?

[PaulaQ]

Did you do the waxing yourself?

No, I went to a European Wax Center location in the nearest big town. It wasn't really painful, I think it hurt less than pulling off a bandaid, honestly. The product they use is sort of a soft, vinyl-like wax. There are no strips, and it is still quite flexible when it cools. The only thing that kind of weirded out the woman who waxed me was that I had her do my underarms, and my full arms. Most guys don't go for that. The rest of it, though, was no problem.

It'll be great - I won't feel like taking a belt sander to my chest tomorrow morning.

[arbon]

Maybe I should just tell everyone I know in town now? At least that way I'd get to tell my side of the story.

If I ever had it to do over again I would just get everyone that knows me together for a huge party and get up on stage in a pretty dress and tell all those shocked faces at once that yes I am really a woman deal with it, and then sneak out the back with the car and my boyfriend waiting to take me to the airport. Let them figure it out. Kind of like Bilbo did in lord of the rings, only he was not a woman, I don't have a ring to make me invisible and I would go to Thailand.

anyway,
it sounds like everyone is going to know about you soon enough. Your free :) no more closets for you. You'll get used to it in no time.

[PaulaQ]

anyway,
it sounds like everyone is going to know about you soon enough. Your free :) no more closets for you. You'll get used to it in no time.

Yeah, I guess so. Hopefully the local rednecks don't burn down my damn house.

I'm a little worried, because the next party is a graduation party for the son of her friend who gossips and doesn't seem so accepting. The son came out about a year and a half ago as "maybe gay". I don't think his folks have talked to him about it since. (I guess he'll figure this out for sure when he gets to college?) Anyway, I'm a little worried they'll think I'll be a bad influence on the kid or something. (Like my TG cooties will spread or something...) They are very conservative people.

So would you go to that social gathering after this?

I think maybe I'll start planning to come out to my family, and closest, longest term friends. At least maybe my grown kids. I'm tired of not being able to talk about this with anyone. Maybe I'll tell mom on mother's day. I can write on the card "Love you mom, from your current son and (possibly) future daughter." It'll be great! (Just kidding about mother's day.)

[arbon]

Try not to speculate about what people may or may not think, or who knows and does not know, you'll just give yourself a headache with all the worry.

Go and socialize, be calm, be confident in yourself.

Where do you want to go with all of this?
If you talk to family and friends what are you going to tell them? It might not be bad to talk to them especially if you think they will find out from others. Or maybe its better to be quiet for a while, catch your breath, let things sit as they are. Beyond the few people your wife has talked to directly it will all be rumor if they start talking. Thats not a big deal really.
I don't know, do what your heart tells you. But the more you talk, the more out you are, the real it becomes. You can't undo it, so you better be able to own it.

[suchacutie]

You mentioned that you were worried about a "scene" at these gatherings. The best defense is a good offense, IMHO. If you expect one, be ready to smile and not be intimidated. What you are doing is not illegal or in any way immoral. Having thought it through ahead of time will allow you to keep your cool and stay above the fray. You wife will likely also appreciate your strength during any such issues!

[PaulaQ]

Where do you want to go with all of this?
If you talk to family and friends what are you going to tell them?

Well, that's a good question - where do I want to go with all this indeed? I dunno. Between gender dysphoria, my horrendously bad emotional state, and now apparently social issues, since everyone knows, I'm wondering whether or not I have any say in the matter of whether or not I transition? It'd be nice if I got a vote in this, but doesn't seem like I will. I think the only question is "when will I join 'Team Girl'", rather than "if". If the stuff I'm doing to alleviate my GD doesn't help soon, I'm going to start seriously talking to my therapist about HRT. I hope to avoid that long enough to give me and my wife both a chance to process this and hopefully find a place where we can deal with that. Because that's where real change starts happening, as opposed to the piddly crap that has my wife so flummoxed now.


But the more you talk, the more out you are, the real it becomes. You can't undo it, so you better be able to own it.
Yes, this I realize. To be honest, this would be the main reason I'd tell more people - because I've made up my mind to go forward. I'm not at that point yet, so this seems premature. I'd like to have a friend or family member who I could talk with for support - I can't really get that from my wife, not really, not with confidence anyway, but I realized this morning:
1. I don't know who I could tell and how they'd react
2. I don't know what I'd really say. I feel like a female inside, but I don't know if I'll transition all the way yet.
3. Even if I tell someone, I'm the type of person who just doesn't talk about their own problems in person. (Hard to believe from my forum posts, I know - this is almost the only place where I'm completely honest.) I wouldn't talk anyway, and that is the sad truth. Heck, I hide my emotions from my therapist. I don't mean too - but I just do this automatically. So hard to change this.

Ironically though, if this goes badly for me socially here, my wife likely just increased the chances we'll split up. If I'm some sort of pariah, I'll be much more likely to move.

I'm going to talk to her about this tonight. I'll post how it goes. I'm not expecting a very good conversation about this. I'm half tempted to show up to the party this weekend in a dress, and be done with it... Heck, if they are going to talk about me anyway, let's give them something to talk about!

[Lisa Gerrie]

Paula, I'd print out what you have written in this thread and read it to your therapist, unedited. It sure sounds honest and unfiltered to me. Your advisers need good raw data.

[flatlander_48]

I'm the type of person who just doesn't talk about their own problems in person. (Hard to believe from my forum posts, I know - this is almost the only place where I'm completely honest.) I wouldn't talk anyway, and that is the sad truth. Heck, I hide my emotions from my therapist. I don't mean too - but I just do this automatically. So hard to change this.

I realize it is hard to change a lifetime of habits. In this case, I suspect it feels like exposing yourself to the world. But consider this, would you take your car to a mechanic, hand him or her the keys and leave without explaining what the problems were? It's good to have high expectations of those we ask to help us and that they can truly change our lives for the better, but perhaps this may be a bit too much. Maybe?

[PaulaQ]

It's good to have high expectations of those we ask to help us and that they can truly change our lives for the better, but perhaps this may be a bit too much. Maybe?

I know it's impossible. I'm just wired this way. I'm trying. At the end of my therapy session, I was trying to make my therapist not worry that I wanted to die. I was worried about her feelings. I don't know how to stop that. I'm trying - I promise you.

[flatlander_48]

The point is that we usually know what the problem is, what the right thing to do is and what positive things will happen if we do that. However, in spite of that, we will convince ourselves to do just the opposite. This is a very human trait; it's not just you. Sometimes we do everything we can to make it difficult for others to like us, to think well of us or to want to be with us. It's sort of like people have to prove themselves to us before we let them get close enough. Or it's a test. It's like saying "Gee, maybe you really must like me because you put up with all the B/S smoke screen I've been throwing out, and you're still here.". Trust me, you are not alone in this.

[TeresaCD]

Wow Paula - I live in a small country town, I don't know how I'd go if I was outed.
It's good to be smooth though, isn't it.
You hang in there, and remember you have good friends here who get it, no matter what happens..

[PaulaQ]

I'll post more later about the talk I had with my wife last night. It didn't go well at first.

But that doesn't matter right now. I had, or am having, a small psychotic break, I think from the stress of all this. I slept about 11 hours last night, which is unusual for me. I'm finding that I am afraid - seriously afraid - to look in mirrors today, because of what looks back at me.

I'll write more when I'm a little calmer, if I'm slow to reply to PMs, bear with me. I'm not quite myself today.

[Angela Campbell]

As far as others knowing just remember it is not something you can control. What they think you cannot control. I would not go out and start telling anyone but if it was me I would tell them the truth if they asked. (yah I am bad about that sometimes)

Not sure I can really advise on how to deal with friends since I never really had any. I do think most will not make much of it if you don't.

Things seem to have a way of working out even when they look like they won't.

[Ceri Anne]

Thank you for sharing Paula. Your coming out shows a courage I havn't gotten yet. I'm glad your wife took it as well as she did. Mine is not normally as accepting, so when the time comes, I'm hoping it goes as well as yours did. Best wishes for the future, its looking good so far, just take it slow and easy.

[PaulaQ]

Sorry, the following is chronologically backwards.

OK, Paula is back in the building. I'm doing MUCH better. I had a nice evening out at my TG support group, and I got my car back today, so I felt much better. I spent the better part of the day, dressed as Paula. Switched back to go get my car, and then got dressed again to go to my support group. (Blue blouse, girl jeans, pewter ballet flats, wig, forms, makeup.) After the meeting, I hung around talking to the girls, and then I went to IHOP, en femme. First time I've done something like that. I went by myself, the waitress called me "ma'am", so I must pass! (:lol: no I don't, she was just nice. I tipped her $5 on a $10 check though.)

Earlier in the day, I was pretty gone. I woke up at 11AM, and figured out pretty fast that I needed paxil and xanax right off the bat. I was *extremely* anxious. I was *not* going to look into a mirror. I was afraid I'd see that "thing" again. A flabby, pale, misshapen abortion of a being - a loping monstrosity from some Lovecraftian tale. (But better written...) This is not the type of thing you want to see when you look in the mirror, real or not.

My wife called, and while normally I'm able to hide my emotions really well, I was just too gone to do that. She asked "How are you", and my quavering voice replied "I'm not feeling well today hon." She replied "I'm going to come on home and take care of you." I didn't want that - she is part of the problem right now. So I told her "No, don't do that hon, I'll be OK. You don't want to see me right now anyway." (Meaning I was crossdressed.) She told me "I can get over whatever I need to get over to take care of you." But I told her "I'll be fine hon, don't worry about me - just go on to your class. I'm going to call my therapist, and I'll let you know how that goes."

So I call my therapist, and tell her what's going on, and how bad I feel. I tell her "right, next week, we're talking hormones. Ready or not, I'm way to close to the 'or die' side of 'transition or die'." So we'll talk about it. I think she believes it's too soon. Oh well, should make for a lively discussion. I promised her that if I felt close to doing something stupid, I'd go to an emergency room and call her. I really wasn't sure that I ever intended to return home the night before. I was in a bad state.

What precipitated all this was Tuesday, as I realized that all the people my wife had outed me too, except one, had shared gossip with me about other people. Boring stuff about who was sleeping with who. As I realized that me, as a transgender person, made for *much* juicier gossip, and that half a dozen people were now in on this, I did the only thing a sensible person who's been outed could do - I completely and totally melted down. I was terrified about who knew what. I was furious with my wife for violating my confidence and telling so many people. But mostly I was freaked out. I looked over in the bathroom mirror, and what stared back at me scared the hell out of me. It was the monster version of me that I saw during my mental breakdown at age 18. I could feel my emotions just shutting down, one by one as my mind screamed in pain. Death started to seem like a really good idea - it'd be so much less painful.

My wife got home, noticed I was upset, and asked me about it. So I told her I didn't appreciate her outing me to so many people. Her initial reaction was "KISS MY ASS!" She asked "what did your therapist think?" I told her "She said outing me to so many people, without discussing it with me, was uncool." "SHE CAN KISS MY ASS TOO! YOU DROPPED AN ATOMIC BOMB ON MY LIFE! WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO BE ANGRY ABOUT ANYTHING!!!" She was certain her friends wouldn't betray her trust. I pointed out the gossip about others we'd heard from these same people, and she said "WELL THIS IS DIFFERENT!!!" And I pointed out "Hell, yeah, it's different - this is WAAAAAAY more interesting gossip!" The discussion went downhill from here. "I DON'T CARE IF YOU DANCE DOWN MAINSTREET IN A F'ING DRESS. I WON'T BE WITH YOU, BUT IF YOU WANT SECRETS, I'M NOT YOUR GIRL!!!"

So I left. I wasn't sure that I intended to return home. I was feeling really death-positive. How bad can it be, really? A little discomfort, and then sleep. I stopped for gas - I was on fumes, and she texted me, asking "are you more mad that I told people, or that you don't have anyone to talk to yourself?" So I texted back "Some of both, but nevermind, I don't have anyone I want to tell anyway." She texted back "look, I love you, and you need to talk to someone. Come home, we need to talk." So I filled up the car, got some ice cream for us, and went back home. And I'm glad she texted me - I can't honestly tell you I wouldn't have decided to see how much fun I could have with the lake, a tall bridge, and a car.

We talked for a couple of hours. She apologized for not talking to me before outing me. (One of the people she outed me to, our neighbor, will probably be an OK deal. Her daughter is bi, and involved in the LGBT community.) She pointed out that she can't untell anyone though. We talked a good long while - she does love me, and she's really trying. She's absolutely certain that there is no happy ending to our story. She will stay with me until she can no longer abide the changes in me. She's also afraid I'll move out and leave her holding the bag, broke and in debt. I told her I'd never do that - she had to know that. But she said "I don't know what you are capable of anymore - I didn't know you were capable of this." All of that was pretty awful to hear, but I told her that I still loved her, and that I had hope - despite the seeming impossibility of our situation. I asked her "How can you be so certain I'll transition?" She said "You've never done *anything* by halves, in the entire 20 years I've known you. If you go for something, you go all the way." She has a point. Honestly though, I don't think it will be my decision. I think it is going to boil down to avoiding suicide or insanity from gender dysphoria. If I can get to a stable point, maybe I can avoid a transition. But so far, I'm falling further down the rabbit hole, and I seem to be accelerating.

[arbon]

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem

And your problems ARE temporary. Things are not going to stay this way. It will get better :)
You'll look back on all this one day and realize its was not as big a deal as it feels like it is now.
You have had this secret all your life, now its not a secret anymore. Thats new for you, and scary.
But you'll get used to it. Really. Have faith.

Keep breathing, relax. Do you pray? Maybe say some prayers. A little meditation? Find some people to talk with. Thats good to have.

Don't overreact.

[PaulaQ]

We talked this afternoon. She was really angry and hurt that I didn't want her to come help me yesterday afternoon - my breakdown scared her. She was angry I went to my support group meeting, and that I didn't call her soon to tell her I felt better.

I didn't want to see her wednesday though. Why would I? She was the one who outed me and pushed me over the edge. She was angry with me for not telling her coherently on Tuesday that I was having a nervous breakdown, complete with hallucinations.

I didn't really know what I could say about that - I mean - I was crazy. I know that gets overused, but I was really crazy, and I DO NOT trust her anymore. Who'll she tell? What will she tell them? And she has ZERO sympathy for me and whatever I'm going through. She makes that clear enough. So no, I didn't do a very good job expressing this. Also, I don't know if any of you have ever had a mental break like that - but you don't think real clearly while it's happening. You just sort of run on autopilot while you try to keep your brain from destroying itself.

So anyway, yeah, I apologized to her for not handling my small nervous breakdown better.

It's all my fault, apparently.

We aren't going to make it. Not at this rate.

"I PROMISED YOU I WOULDN'T TELL ANYONE ELSE! WHAT HAVE YOU COMPROMISED ON?"
"Uh, gee hon, I don't show you anything I'm doing, and I try to guess what I can tell you that you can handle, so that I don't hurt you because I know you hate the idea of me as a woman. This is really hard to do, by the way."
"How's it hard? I never said you couldn't talk to me!"
"I got that impression."
So I told her that I attended my support group en femme. This bothered her.
"Where'd you change? Did you wear makeup?"
"In the restroom there, and yes, although I'm not good at makeup."
"WELL I CAN'T HELP YOU WITH THAT!"
"I know hon, it's OK"
"THERE'S YOUTUBE, I GUESS!"
"yep, there sure is."
"SO WHAT'S HARD ABOUT NOT SHOWING ME ANYTHING?"
Gee, let me see, the total feelings of rejection, the hiding, the knowledge that you hate this shit?
So I said:
"Well gee hon, I don't want you to have to see anything you don't want to see, but what if I make a mistake, or leave something out by accident, or misjudge when you'll get home? It's kind of stressful feeling like I have to hide everything."
So her conclusion was that she just wouldn't come into my office anymore.

She does *not* get it. She doesn't WANT to get it, either. She feels entitled to a future that just isn't going to happen, and she's angry about that. And that is the long and short of it. She'd like to help me because she'll feel horrible if she doesn't, but she is in so much pain herself that she's just in no way, shape, nor form, able to really do me much of any good.

Indeed, at this point, she is part of the problem. A big part of the problem. I just don't know how to tell her that in a way she'll actually hear. I tried and failed this afternoon.

So in the end, I just apologized for not handling my nervous breakdown better than I did. I am just not very sensitive when I'm having a psychotic break. Hopefully I don't get enough practice at this to improve - I don't know if I have many of these in me.

BTW, I'm less upset now over being outed. But wow, it was a real shock at first.

[PaulaQ]

What a crazy rollercoaster ride. This morning my wife demonstrated for me which brushes she uses to apply eyeshadow, told me where to go to buy better brushes, and gave me a palette of eyeshadows and blushes that she never uses.

Never a dull moment here.

[arbon]

That was probably really hard for her to make that gesture.

Its only been a month since you have told her. Thats not a very long time, but a lot has happened, things have been moving pretty fast. Its going to take time for you both to adjust and come to understand how it changes your lives and relationship.


When I accidently outed myself in a work related way in 2008, I had to tell my wife the truth, I had to tell her how I really felt inside.
It changed everything for us, and there were a lot of very difficult times for us between then and now. I don't even know how to put it into words, how the experience impacted and changed us and the relationship we have. While I was going through my struggle of self acceptance and wallowing in the guilt for what I was doing to the family, she had her own struggles with this new reality. She went through anger , fear, grief, she felt very betrayed, she was powerless to stop what was happening - she had no control over it....but despite all that she also wanted to be able to understand, she wanted to be supportive of me because she still loved me. It was very conflicting for her. She had this man she was married to all these years, and then to question if he was ever a man at all and to watch him slowly disappear and become this woman, it was very hard on her. Roller coaster ride? Yep. One day she could be lashing out at me, talking about leaving and saying mean things to me, and the next day defending me from some friend or family member or talking me into going to get a manicure with her.

It was a very rough road for both of us. It took time for us to work it out, and in a lot of ways we still are figuring it out over 4 years later, our new relationship is still evolving.

Keep your seat belt on tight :)


Its hard for both you, neither of you knows where this is going yet.

[flatlander_48]

What a crazy rollercoaster ride. This morning my wife demonstrated for me which brushes she uses to apply eyeshadow, told me where to go to buy better brushes, and gave me a pallet of eyeshadows and blushes that she never uses.

Never a dull moment here.

Remember this:

Even on our BEST days, we are still a bundle of contradictions. For better or worse, it is the Human Condition. We are not automatons. We have emotions that sometimes, despite our best efforts, just get in the way. However, for that to not happen, we would be missing those qualities that separate us from other inhabitants on this planet.

We should not be less than we are, but we can certainly be more than we imagined.

[GothicEmily]

What a crazy rollercoaster ride. This morning my wife demonstrated for me which brushes she uses to apply eyeshadow, told me where to go to buy better brushes, and gave me a pallet of eyeshadows and blushes that she never uses.

Never a dull moment here.

I think you meant "palette" but I had fun picturing your wife dropping off an entire pallet of makeup with a forklift.

I hope things continue to improve.

[PaulaQ]

I think you meant "palette" but I had fun picturing your wife dropping off an entire pallet of makeup with a forklift.


LOL, indeed I did. What an embarrassing typo!

Last night was fine. We watched some TV together, and finally snuggled for a while in bed together - first time since I waxed my chest. Last night she was of a mind that we should enjoy one another while I still have the desire and ability to do so. This is a really wild ride.

[TeresaCD]

we should enjoy one another while I still have the desire and ability to do so. This is a really wild ride.

She may well be surprised in the end. Glad you are having good days, Paula

[PaulaQ]

Still a rollercoaster here. We had a pretty good weekend overall. Nice dinner together Saturday. Sunday, we spent a big part of the day in bed - but she wouldn't let me touch her. We ended up going to see Ironman 3 later in the day, and having Mexican food for Cinco de Mayo. (It was a little weird watching Ironman 3 - Tony Stark likes to dress funny, and is melting down from anxiety attacks. This struck a little too close to home for me, although I don't get to have super powers.)

She admitted, on the way home, that she helped cause my meltdown last week. She was sad though, because even though we had a nice weekend, she worries that anything we do together that's kind of a tradition, like cinco de mayo, will be the last one we ever do together as a couple. She can't shake those feelings. She also was very anxious last night, because I left town to go to my physician after we got back from the movie. (Early morning appointment, so it was easier to stay near the doctor's office.) She was sure that something bad was going to happen, and that I wasn't going to come home.

My Doc put me on Buspar, as well as Paxil, and told me to take my xanax for the next couple of weeks. I was visibly shaking and having an anxiety attack while I visted with him. He told me to expect it to take 2-3 months for my emotional state to stabiliize, and to expect it to take a year or more before I like who I see in the mirror, whatever I decide to do about a transition.

He asked if I was strong enough. I replied "well, I guess I don't have much other choice, do I?"

He agreed that most likely my secret was out around town now. He joked that the good news is that Americans can't think about anything for more than two weeks, before it becomes old news and they are bored with it!

He also pointed out that what I'm going through is liable to be hard, because I don't have great support at home. My doc is great.

My wife was kind of down when I got home, she found a pair of my panties in the dryer, that I'd missed when I did laundry on Saturday. She really doesn't understand what's going on with me. She's trying - but she really doesn't understand it, and she hates all the changes. I told her tonight that I know she's trying, and that I love her, and that I appreciate how hard this is for her, and I am very sorry it is so hard, and that this was one of the things I'd grieved over the most - that this was so hurtful to her.

[Stevie]

Your doc is right it seems like people's attention span is very short. Keep your head up.. you can't make everyone happy.

[Angela Campbell]

I am coming out to someone in my family now as well. I have some anxiety about it but I pulled the trigger today. I didn't really spill the beans yet but I asked if she would feel comfortable talking with me about something personal and confidential and somewhat medical in nature. (she is a doctor) She is my cousin and once we were pretty close but that was 30 years ago. I guess she is the closest thing I ever had to a sister. I am thinking since we are not so close that maybe it will have little effect on her life and if she can be objective maybe she can help me find the words to use when telling others in my family.

I guess I am just not brave enough to do what you did Paula.

[flatlander_48]

He also pointed out that what I'm going through is liable to be hard, because I don't have great support at home. My doc is great.

This is something that really jumped out at me. The problem is that our resources, our personal energy and time, are finite. And, we have lots of other things in our lives that require some energy and time. Just living takes up a lot. Regarding anxiety, it wouldn't surprise me if it is made worse by knowing that we need to put focus on a given issue, but don't have enough left over to do that. We know this is what needs to happen but at any point in time we just may not be able to do that.

I'm a great one for seeing how things are connected and this is something I had not noticed before. Sorry that it isn't a particularly positive message, but you never know when a bit of insight may have usefulness...

Be reminded that we're all behind you here. Maybe in part it is the realization that your situation could easily be ours also; either now or in the future. But no, it isn't easy and it isn't the work of a moment.

[Lady Slipper]

I can't believe I haven't replied to this thread yet. I really hope things get better for you Paula. I have followed your story here and I have been touched, moved, and worried for you, sometimes at the same time. :( Hang in there, I see great strength in you, I think you can bare this burden, it won't be easy but nothing worth doing is. :) Keep us updated, when things are darkest venting here may help put things in perspective.

Side note: Iron Man is an ordinary person with flaws and all, his super powers come from his suit, his "clothing" if you will, he needs to don his suit to do things he can't "en drab". Parallels too obvious to point out. :P

-Stephanie Marie

[PaulaQ]

Last night, I went to my support group meeting, changed there, and then went out to dinner afterwards, en femme. That was fun! It was my second time out. Another minor presonal first, I used the ladies room. Actually this was easier than I expected - it was kind of a relief, because lately I've had a LOT of trouble using the mens room. (I've pretty much given up on urinals - I can stand there for 15 minutes - nothing happens. I know this is largely psychological, but it is real.)

My wife went to her therapist today, and told me she was pulling away from me. I told her I knew that. She said her therapist made her realize that she did have more control over the situation than she realized - hey, she can bail, I can bail, she can move me downstairs, we can try to stick it out as long as possible, lots of choices. None of them GOOD choices - but they are choices. So she wants to stick it out as long as we can, but she fully believes we'll end up divorcing. (This seems probable to me too if I transition.) Her therapist thinks my plan of only CDing in secret is unlikely to be tenable long term. This also seems probable to me.

She asked if I dressed for my TG support group last night, "a wig, makeup, and stuff?" I told her yes. She wanted to know if I drove there that way - and I told her "no", I was worried she'd come downstairs and see me, and I knew she wasn't ready for that, so I changed in the bathroom at the center.

She's morbidly curious about what I have and where I keep it - but she really doesn't want to know either. She asked how often I dressed - if I was dressed everytime she was gone. I told her mostly yes, and many times after she goes to bed. She asked if I was ready to go out - and I told her yes. She asked if I had a name. So I told her my name, and why I picked it. She regretted knowing it, she told me - it made it seem like a real person. (I am a real person!!!!)

I told her that in my opinion, the best thing we could do was take this one day at a time, and enjoy each other as man and wife for as long as that was possible. Although most couples expect years together - who actually knows how long they really have together? No one. She agreed with me, so that's what we're going with.

We ended up watching some TV together later, and then talking about this a little more. She told me she's been fixated this week on something her physician said - "It's as if your husband has died." She can't shake that feeling. I told her that was a really unhelpful way for her doctor to have put that, and that it wasn't true, and that while I'm changing outwardly, I'm still the same person.

She said her therapist told her she was doing really well. I told her the same thing, and that I appreciated her efforts, and that I knew this was hard for her. She told me on a scale of 1-10, where 1 was totally hetrosexual, and 10 was totally homosexual, she was a "1". I told her I knew that. She told me she needed to be married to a man - I told her I knew that too. She's worried I'm not such a strong person anymore, because of my anxiety.

I told her that if I did transition, and we separated, that my assumption is that my sex life would be over - I don't want anyone but her, and can't even think about anyone else. (This is true.) I told her though that if that happened, I hoped she'd find someone for herself, I didn't want her to be lonely. I said that losing my sex life wasn't the happiest thought that I could have, but if it meant I was sane and alive, well, worse things happen to people and they carry on.

These really weren't bad discussions. We were both calm, and it was rational. It was hard stuff to talk about - but we are talking still, and we're both still trying, and both still concerned about the other. Perhaps that will be enough, perhaps not.

[PaulaQ]

Dang. Apparently my current lack of body hair is a big turn-off for my wife. She's trying - but this is just really hard for her. :(

She's trying not to - but she's pulling away from me.

Doesn't help either that I'm on enough antidepressants that I'm not going to get too much out of whatever we do, either.

[PaulaQ]

Not much to report. My wife had a good mother's day, I think, although she seemed out of sorts today.

I'm still here. Not very happy about it. I am losing hope that I will ever feel better. I think I am in an impossible struggle that I simply will not win, in any sense of that term.

[Angela Campbell]

I'm still here.

I am glad of that at least.

[PaulaQ]

Thanks Ellen! I'm feeling a little better, and am going to keep soldiering on. What else can I do? The psychological stuff I'm going through is really scary bad. I'm mostly lying to my wife about it. This is the wrong thing to do, but I don't want to add to her stress. She's having trouble coping herself.

I'm quite worried that my condition is actually pretty serious, and that I'm in a VERY poor location to get the medical and psychological help I probably need. It's really hard to judge though how serious this is. I haven't actually tried to kill myself, and lots of others have. I just don't want to live feeling the way I feel anymore.

My concern is that if I get that far, I am pretty analytical and methodical, and I won't miss. I *really* don't want to get that far. I'm also afraid of just completely losing my mind. I am disturbed enough that slipping into delusions is a real possibility. I *do not* trust the local medical establishment to do much except really screw me up.

I mean, seriously - am I *really* going to call the drug-seeking EMT's (the local guys are notorious for ripping off prescription meds from your house when they come) to come pick me up and take me to an emergency room where they have basically ZERO experience with someone who's trans?

No, I don't think I'll do that.

[eddiesavage]

Hi Paula.
Well done you.The hard parts over,now mending begins.2 years ago we were where you are now.It`s been bloody hard the whole way.1 step forward 2 back.But we are getting there.Don`t give up,sometimes you think that would be so much easier.
We are worth fighting for,give it your all.

[PaulaQ]

So my therapist called me on a couple of things - so I'm being more open with my wife about my feelings. Specifically I told her how bad I felt over the weekend.

We've had several talks this week - pretty serious talks, mostly about where we're headed. My wife is completely convinced I'll transition. I have to admit this seems more likely to me now too. She doesn't see us having a future as a married couple, at least not as an intimate couple. She doesn't see us living together in 2-3 years tops, and maybe as soon as one year. She is interested in remodelling one of our spare bedrooms (we have two) so that when she can no longer sleep in the same room as me, I have a place to be. Maybe we stay married technically for a while - but in reality we wouldn't function as a couple. Possibly housemates - if she can tolerate that. (That is by no means certain.)

Our sex life may well be over already. The changes I'm going through, minor though they are, are too much for her so far. She's trying to get used to them, but so far, she can't. And she can't stop thinking about her grief - "is this the last time we'll ever make love?" This is not a good line of thought if you are trying to be sexy.

From my end, my libido is basically at zero anyway. I don't know if this is because of all the emotional stuff we're going through (seems possible), or because of antidepressants (I don't get very much out of having sex anyway), or some of both.

Maybe this will improve - we are both trying.

She's concerned I'm changing too fast, and she has a point. (I'm thinking about electrolysis for my face, and voice coaching. Both take a long time, and aren't very visible changes - I have been clean shaven for 23 years...) She's worried this is some kind of a checklist, and I guess she has a point. Both things bug me though. I'd also like to laser off my body hair, although I wanted to put that off for a while, mostly because it is very visible, she hates it, and it's permanent.

I told her that I knew this was hell for her, and that she was really doing exceedingly well, and that no matter what happened to us as a couple, I assured her that the things in her life that I could keep the same for her, I would. (The house, as much of her life in our town as possible.)

She doesn't believe there's a happy ending for us as a couple, not anymore. Just an ending - and way sooner than she wanted.

I'm going to come out to one of my best friends soon, sometime in the next couple of weeks. (He's out of town, and I want to go to him in person, not do this by phone.) I'll report on that when it happens. No clue how it will go.

[Jenniferathome]

....She is interested in remodelling one of our spare bedrooms (we have two) so that when she can no longer sleep in the same room as me, I have a place to be. Maybe we stay married technically for a while ....

Paula, I can't help but think that your wife is really incredible to even think you can stay in the house after transition. She never signed up for that. You really have to think of this as a best case scenario and nothing to dread.

[Breeze]

I hope that you can both find some peace with the whole situation.

[PaulaQ]

Paula, I can't help but think that your wife is really incredible to even think you can stay in the house after transition.

She won't make it that long. Transition takes a really long time. She'll put up with me as long as she can - I've helped her a lot over 20 years. We have an entire house that we don't use now that she "had to have to be happy", as an example.


She never signed up for that. You really have to think of this as a best case scenario and nothing to dread.
And I signed up for this? Are you suggesting that I'm the "bad guy" in this? I signed on for "until death do us part." However, how she feels is how she feels, and I don't blame her. I understand her reaction and I predicted it, if you will recall.

BTW, I think this is the best case scenario:


Can we talk?" I asked my wife, Heather, on February 6, 2012, three days before her birthday. Maybe this wasn't the best timing, but I couldn't wait any longer. The pressure that had built up inside me for 31 years was about to burst. We lay down on our bed, Evelyn, our 3-year-old, napping in the other room, and looking into my wife's beautiful brown eyes, I made my confession: "I'm a transsexual." I buried my head into her chest and explained that this was something I'd been struggling with all my life.

I wasn't sure how Heather would take it. She said something like "That's all you were going to tell me?" She later told me she thought I was going to say I had cheated on her or wanted a divorce—which she said would have been worse for her. She told me at that moment—and kept telling me—that she wasn't going anywhere.

If my post about my conversation came across as "dread", please allow me to disabuse you of that notion. I dread the idea of killing myself. I dread the idea of losing my mind. (My therapist thinks the latter is unlikely.) I'm saddened that my marriage is, with a very high order of probability, unwinding. We are working together constructively to make sure my wife is prepared.

I don't believe our marriage would survive even cross dressing to the extent that many on this forum practice. Anything else I do to feminize my body will just make things exponentially worse. It is probably already too late for the marriage to survive anyway, unless I can just give this up altogether, which seems unlikely.

I do think, given her sexual preferences and upbringing, that she's handling this very well - actually better than I'd anticipated. She'd actually be pretty OK with this if this was one of my friends - just not her husband. I get that.

I get the impression that you think I'm just terribly selfish in all of this. I'm sorry you feel that way.

I am not at all sure, depending on what happens with me, that staying together is the best case scenario, at least for me - there would be sacrifices on my part. We do NOT live in an area where it is particularly easy or safe to be transgendered.

BTW, I'm going out of town tomorrow to visit my best friend. I'm going to come out to him. I'll post about how it goes.

[PaulaQ]

I came out to my oldest and best friend today. It went great. He had lots of questions (do I like men, how'd I discover I was TG at 50, how's my wive feel, all sorts of stuff), but he said he supported me and would remain my friend. We talked a lot about what I'm going through, my depression and anxiety, all sorts of stuff. He told me that I'd always stuck with him, and so he was here for me. I felt really good about this. He told me some personal stuff about himself that he'd never shared with anyone. (Nothing trans / sex related.) He could empathize with my misery, if not the cause. He felt like he'd stepped through the looking glass, or that any minute he'd wake up from a *really weird* dream. He made a few jokes (that's his way), but was curious about how I looked as a female. I'll have to take a photo and show him. (I'm overdue to post one for my forum avatar anyway.)

He also told me, at the end of the conversation (this took about 2 1/2 hours), that he understood now, why I started out my talk with "I'm still sober, I have been for 23 years, keep this in mind, because everything else I am going to tell you is really weird."In the end though, he embraced me and told me that we were still friends, and that he hoped I could do whatever I needed to do to be happy, whatever that turns out to be.


My wife and I talked about this, and she was happy for me. But I still feel badly, because at the end of the conversation, she was upset, and needed to go lay down. I could hear her screams and sobbing from downstairs, so I feel absolutely horrible about what she's going through. I don't know what I can do that make this not be painful for her, without trying to shove all this stuff down again, and live with it longer. I don't think I can do that - I think it'll kill me. (Or rather I'll kill myself if I try.)

[MsJanessa]

She won't make it that long. Transition takes a really long time. She'll put up with me as long as she can - I've helped her a lot over 20 years. We have an entire house that we don't use now that she "had to have to be happy", as an example.


And I signed up for this? Are you suggesting that I'm the "bad guy" in this? I signed on for "until death do us part." However, how she feels is how she feels, and I don't blame her. I understand her reaction and I predicted it, if you will recall.

BTW, I think this is the best case scenario:



If my post about my conversation came across as "dread", please allow me to disabuse you of that notion. I dread the idea of killing myself. I dread the idea of losing my mind. (My therapist thinks the latter is unlikely.) I'm saddened that my marriage is, with a very high order of probability, unwinding. We are working together constructively to make sure my wife is prepared.

I don't believe our marriage would survive even cross dressing to the extent that many on this forum practice. Anything else I do to feminize my body will just make things exponentially worse. It is probably already too late for the marriage to survive anyway, unless I can just give this up altogether, which seems unlikely.

I do think, given her sexual preferences and upbringing, that she's handling this very well - actually better than I'd anticipated. She'd actually be pretty OK with this if this was one of my friends - just not her husband. I get that.

I get the impression that you think I'm just terribly selfish in all of this. I'm sorry you feel that way.

I am not at all sure, depending on what happens with me, that staying together is the best case scenario, at least for me - there would be sacrifices on my part. We do NOT live in an area where it is particularly easy or safe to be transgendered.

BTW, I'm going out of town tomorrow to visit my best friend. I'm going to come out to him. I'll post about how it goes.

Try not to be too hard on yourself or your wife. What people want and foresee for themselves and their SO at the age of 20, usually isn't the same thing as what they want at 40 or 50. Many couples end up separating, not because either of them is evil or bad or to blame, but because their lives take separate paths. The idea that two people have to stay togather no matter what can be completely unrealistic in many situations. Indeed, staying togather when it's time to go can cause a relationship to become toxic and destructive to both parties.

The degree to which a spouse will stay in a marriage with a TG depends really on the nature and extent of the transgendered behavior---occasionally wearing panties is different from getting fully dressed and made up once a week which is different than dressing daily, which is different than undergoing the "transition" with body altering hormones and surgery. From your description, you seem to be the latter type of individual, a true transexual. While there are some instances of spouses staying togather after the husband's transition (Jennifer Boylan in Maine is a good example) it is more common for the spouses to eventually separate--hopefully on good terms and with love and acceptance for each other's choice. I hope you and your wife acheive serenity in whatever road you take.

[arbon]

I'm glad to hear it will well telling your friend. :)

[TeresaCD]

Glad your best friend took it in his stride - good to know you have that support close at hand.

[Briana90802]

You know Paula, I've been reading and somewhat following your post but I must say I'm rather confused. Please forgive me for being harsh and blunt but I think that people are too self centered these day. They think only about how things will affect them, how things make them feel, how others will perceive them and so on. The things your wife say and do fall into this category. From what I see by your posts that you are trying to please yourself and your wife. Maybe I have it wrong here but the the behavior you've explained seems like she's been disillusioned about your relationship together, meaning that perhaps her idea of marriage was an illusion to begin with. People are so f***ing gullible these days to believe in the "happily ever after" and yet they do so much believe that they don't know how to own their own feelings, to know how to resolve conflicts, to know that the trials and tribulation are what the things that make a relationship better. Without them how do you compare the good time from the bad.
Ask your therapist, better yet bring your wife to a session.
I feel what I'm saying here will be unpopular, and that people will disagree, but I have knack for being objective and dispassionate, but support and insightful. You and your wife need to look at this situation in the same way.Open your mind to the possibilities. Maybe that's why she's so distraught, the only possibilities she sees are bad. Show her the good. Show her the happily ever after is possible just different.

[PaulaQ]

So I had a therapy session today, and told my therapist that I'm feeling MUCH more positive and much less anxious about transitioning. (An ironic effect of the antianxiety medicines I'm taking - I'd hoped for the opposite, that I'd realize that these thoughts and feelings were symptoms of some other mental illness.)

My wife asked me what my therapist and I talked about - if my therapist had any opinions about me "going too fast." I dissembled and didn't do a very effective job of deflecting the question, and my wife called me on it.

So I told her the truth: That I feel a lot better, I'm not having suicidal thoughts, but I'm also a LOT more positive about transition. I don't like being a guy. I want to be a woman. I don't know exactly what form that will take - but I know what direction I must travel, anyway. This was no particular surprise to her - she's always felt that I was kidding myself about trying to find some middle-path.

I hated telling her all this, even though she already knew it. I feel like I'm made out of razor blades, and everytime I approach her, I cut her to ribbons. It's just awful.

We'll see where this goes - although one place it isn't going is to bed. Our intimate times together are probably over for good. She just can't feel that way about me anymore. Maybe that will change - I asked her to talk to her therapist, and to see if it would help for us to meet with a counselor as a couple.

She saw a silohoutte of me dressed today. She peeked in on me in my office. She didn't see much, and she didn't want to see more, but she didn't break down in tears either. So maybe she'll be able to tolerate seeing me dressed at some point.

It'll be a while before I'm ready to go 24/7. At that point, if she can't handle it, I'll have to move I guess. (Maybe before then.) Sure, it'd be nice to not wear male clothes around the house, but I'll put that off for as long as possible, and present as male for her for as long as I can stand it. I'm thinking it'll be quite some time before I can't stand it - months and months. I don't really see it as being even really necessary until I've been on HRT for quite some time, and it'll be a while before I am able to start that.

I told her that I'd be happy to tell the kids whenever she's ready to deal with that. She wants to wait a few months, until after our oldest son's wedding. So that means I won't come out to others in my family, or my close friends, for a while. That is kind of a drag - I'm ready to tell my family.

[TeresaCD]

If nothing else, Paula, you are being honest with her, and yourself.
At least you are still talking, and she knows how your feel about her.
Waiting to tell others must suck, I can see why you need to though.

[arbon]

it may be uncomfortable and not what you want but sometimes being held back a some can be a good thing. You can use the time constructively making your plans and to be sure it is what you want to do.

[Greenie]

I understand why she wants you to wait till after the wedding. But at least she asked to you wait and not to keep quiet entirely. She probably wants to make sure your sons wedding still revolves around him and doesnt want a bunch of gossip surrounding his wedding bliss.

I am glad to hear that the suicidal thoughts have gone. We are all here for you. :)

[PaulaQ]

@arbon - yes, it's not such a problem waiting to tell them. I have a LOT of stuff to figure out, and there are a ton of things I can do to prepare in the meantime.

@Greenie - thanks , yes I'm feeling just heaps better, for the first time in months.

I know this is the right path for me now, I'm certain of this. It is sad that my wife and I won't make it, but that is typical in this situation. I think we'll be good to each other as the marriage unwinds.

[PaulaQ]

My wife and I are seriously talking about how we ultimately unwind our marriage. I want (as does she) for her to prepare for an independent life without me, restarting her career. This will probably take a couple of years to fully realize, but that's OK, my changes will be slow. I don't WANT her to live without me - but being realistic, as I transition, it's very possible we'll reach a point where she simply can no longer tolerate being with me. If and when that happens, I want her to be able to support herself. I intend to continue helping her - but look - something could happen to me, the suicide rate for transgender folks is high. I plan to stick around, but it's best to plan for the worst.

If our marriage survives in some form, and she decides she really doesn't want to work anymore, it's way easier to quit than it is to launch a career after some personal crisis between the two of us.

We talked with a financial advisor, and there are complications with launching her career again. It would actually be more financially advantageous to us to legally divorce NOW, even if we stayed together. We talked about this - but she doesn't want to divorce now, she wants to stay together as long as we can. (I tried to point out ways we could protect her, so that when she could no longer deal with me, she wouldn't have to go through a big legal mess at the same time.) She didn't want it, and I am glad.

This gives me some hope.

Anyway, we aren't getting divorced anytime soon. We'll find some other way to solve the problem and get her back to work. She has a really good opportunity right now, and she'd be a fool not to take it. There is just no telling how long we'll make it together. I want her to be prepared, even though I desperately do NOT want this to happen, I love her enough to want her to protect herself.

I talked to my friend who I came out to last weekend tonight. I had sent him my picture, and he thought I looked OK. He's offered to go to a movie or something like that with me sometime. We talked about a bunch of stuff tonight, his stuff, my stuff. He asked lots more questions about what I'm going through. It was a good conversation.

[Diversity]

PaulaQ, you absolutely did the right thing to tell her. Now the chains are off and you now have the freedom to continue to have further honest and open discussions. Don't pressure her and give her the time she needs to digest this. Take it slowly and respect any boundries that you both discuss and agree to abide by. Time will yield the answers you both are looking for. Good luck to you both, and please use this forum should you need to bounce anything off of us. You and your wife have a good support team within this forum.
Di
PS - The above was in response to the start of your first thread. I now see that you have had subsequent posts. In any event, I wish you both well.

[TeresaCD]

All good to hear, Paula: that you are talking, and not shying away from dealing with things (either of you)
You have a lovely avatar picture, too :battingeyelashes:

[andrea lace]

I must say Paula you have moved very fast it only seems like it was yesterday you were planing to break the news to your wife. My wife and I sincerely hope you both emerge from this happily and you both find some joy. Good luck to both of you. You look great by the way. Take care

[flatlander_48]

PQ:

Nice photo; could be even better with a smile...

[PaulaQ]

Thanks flatlander, yeah, I'll improve on self-portraiture! I took those at 2am, after a long night out. I was just too tired to be at my best. I'll do more.

@Andrea - it has been a crazy ride. I know the odds for me and my wife are bad, really bad. I keep hoping against hope we'll find a way to stay together and both be happy. If that simply can't be, we'll take care of one another as best we can, and be friends.

Update for today:

My wife has decided to be strong. We are out of town, at our niece's wedding. We stopped at an outlet mall, and did some shopping. She helped me buy some earrings, and I bought her a necklace. We shipped at coach for some purses, and she got a really pretty yellow bag, and I got a fuchsia one. We had fun, I think. She talked about shopping for Paula, which was the first time she's used my name. She is trying!

She's strong - really strong. She decided to quit feeling sorry for herself and live.

She told me tonight that she told her mom about me. It went OK, her mom still loves me. I told her it was OK. I'm not freaked out. Everyone will need to know eventually, and I'm not ashamed anymore. I'm sick of hiding, too.

I'm ready to be out.

[phlover]

Paula, you are so courageous to have undergone such a fluctuating way of coming out to your wife in so short a period. I'll always support you for transition and also send my deep sympathy to your wife, too. I wish you would be always positive and active in your long way to transition.

[PaulaQ]

Sorry for my prior optimism. We're done. It'll take a while to unwind everything, but my wife unloaded on my yesterday for having the audacity to hope we could somehow have a tiny chance of making it as a couple.

We will get divorced when it's the least painful for her / least economically disadvantageous.

We'll have sex because she feels bad about wanting to have an affair.

We'll separate when I start dressing fulltime, or do something else (god knows, it could be anything) she can't handle. I have zero control over my body, between her, my therapist, and my doctors, I can't change a thing right now. I can depilate, and buy clothes, and talk about stuff. Not that she'll be bothered to learn anything to have any idea whatsoever what I'm talking about. The idea of piercing my ears freaks her out. The idea of voice coaching, or electrolysis (both of which are essentially invisible from her perspective) freaks her out. I can't DO anything.

In the meantime, she manages who I can talk to, and when. She told her mom over the weekend about me. We didn't discuss this first. She told me about it afterwards. If it had gone badly, she wouldn't have told me at all. (So much for honesty.) I did get a chance to talk to her mom about what's going on, and assured her that I'd take care of her daughter, and get her to be self-supporting. I held out a tiny-sliver of hope we'd make it - but I said I didn't think it was very likely, not in the long run. This pissed off my wife just something fierce. If we don't make it now, somehow that's her fault, because I've told people that I'm willing to try. She made if VERY clear that we have no chance in the long run. We may stay married - but if so, it'll be for financial reasons for her. (It's actually advantageous financially for us to divorce now.) She wants a full report on everything I've said to my therapist. She's going to stop going to hers.

She's trying - but I think she wants me to fell better about myself so she feels better about herself. This doesn't feel like it's about me a lot. It's about her. Her marriage is ending. It's horrible. (Hello - mine is too!)
I told her I'd like to talk to my mother. She's worried about that and thinks it's a bad idea!

I'm sorry, this is all about her.

So, I'll slow down my transition as much as possible until after our son gets married. I'll work on fixing our financial stuff, and dealing with other crap so that she can get her career going again. (I can assure you, I'll do all the heavy lifting on this.) I'll figure out where in the HELL I'm going to go - I am obviously not going to be able to stay here while I transition. I think I'll put off getting my knee fixed - we've talked about this - but I don't think I want her help anymore. I don't think I want her help with anything anymore.

I guess I'll have sex with her when she wants it / needs it. I don't even care about it anymore - there is no future in this relationship. I'll keep it together for the sake of our kids for a few months. I'll make a plan and figure out some where to go. Transitioning here will be impossible. Between her, and the locals, there's just no way this works.

Hopefully that's not too much for her to deal with.

[flatlander_48]

After smoking for about 21 years, I quit in 1988. This was back in the days when you could smoke in the workplace. I kept a bag of cashews and a bag of butterscotch candies in my desk at work and did the same at home. As 2 things that I REALLY liked, they were my substitutes. As quitting is a fairly long process, I had a lot of time to think about what was going on.

What prompted this was that my kids had seen this film at school about the dangers of smoking. They showed these images of autopsied lungs of people who had smoked and died of a smoking related illness. Anyway, it freaked them out and they just KNEW I was going to die.

So, originally I decided to quit for them. Not a bad reason, but that was my original perspective. However, as the process moved along, what I realized is that the only way for things to work in the long run is that I had to quit for ME and not for THEM. When you do something like this at the behest of someone else, if it fails it isn't your fault. It is theirs. Likewise, if it works, it isn't because you did it, it's because they told you to do it. In one sense, it can take away responsibility for one's actions. On the other, we don't get to enjoy our successes.

How this ties in:
If you're doing something in response, make sure you are doing it because you have internalized it and believe it is the correct thing to do at the time. It's never good to be coerced into doing something. It only serves to make us resentful.

[PaulaQ]

If you're doing something in response, make sure you are doing it because you have internalized it and believe it is the correct thing to do at the time. It's never good to be coerced into doing something. It only serves to make us resentful.

Oh there'll be puh-lenty of time for resentment later on both sides. For my part, as I give her the house that has equity, and take on the one that she made me buy, that we all ultimately hated, and deal with the dead-beat renters, and as I sell off all my astronomy equipment for pennies on the dollar, and live kinda broke for a long time, while I send her money. I'm fairly sure I'll resent this. I'm not sure yet if I'll resent being alone and having no sex life for the rest of my days. Jury's out on those two. Assuming I survive all this. Who knows? I am not counting on lots o' support. I will be unsurprised if I lose my family, almost entirely. (Kids, mom, sister, etc.) I'll probably resent that stuff. I'll almost certainly resent dealing with all her emotional issues over the years - some of them were pretty bad, but lacking support from her when I need it most.

On her part, she'll resent me doing this, and leaving her alone. Then later resent me because the guy she eventually marries may have more money than me, but he's kind of a dick. She may resent having to have a job again. She hasn't had much of one in a decade.

Anyway, I'm not sure what I was ever thinking. How is staying with someone who can't even stand the THOUGHT of me cross dressed even possible while I transition? It just isn't. How is being the only transgendered person in a TINY judgemental, fundamentalist bible-belt town (there are larger high schools than this town) even remotely a good idea?

It's not going to happen. It was always a dream. I'd hoped we had a slim chance. I now realize there is a 0% probability of us staying together as a couple, or even as friends in the same home. I'll move back to a town I freaking hate and try to get my act together. It's just a question of steering this so that the crash (which is inevitable at this point) does as little damage to us both as possible.

I dunno, maybe I'll be so overjoyed by my life as a (not real) woman in one of the more trans unfriendly towns in the US (Dallas) and my life alone, with my cat, that my heart will have no room for resentment. Maybe I'll keep my job at least.

[PaulaQ]

So I got a text from my brother-in-law this evening, Yeah, my wife outed me to someone else. At least this time she asked me - unfortunately, she only asked me after she outed me. I told her I don't trust her and I don't feel safe being Paula while she's in the house.

We'll stay together until after our son gets married. We're seriously talking about how we separate and divorce. We're done. It'll take a while to unwind, but we are done.

I'm considering giving myself permission to completely melt-down. Options:
1. Storm around the house enraged breaking stuff until I break one of my own limbs
2. Cry myself into a catatonic stupor
3. The big sleep

Opinions? Oh wait, I can't do that - too many people in my life need me. What about what I need? Who ****in' cares, apparently. I just need to hang on to give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give until I'm used up.

edit:
Thanks everyone for the votes! Storming around the house like a crazy person won by a landslide. Popping a xanax now to try to avoid property damage...

[TeresaCD]

Yep, I like option 1 too, or 2, as both allow you to release what's inside. You are way to special and valuable for 3, honey.

[Kathy Smith]

I'll vote #1 too. :)

Perhaps you should find somewhere with a big plotter and get them to make a very big copy of post #177. You could stick it to the wall to show WHY option 1 is happening. :)

[Angela Campbell]

I would probably do #2

But thats just me.

[PaulaQ]

Awake now. Woke up earlier to a panic attack. Took Xanax.

I know now what I've always known - I am a monster. There is no place on this world for me.

[TeresaCD]

No more or less than the rest of us Paula. Hang in there.

[PaulaQ]

Hey, I have more to post, but I'm still not 100%, so it'll have to wait until later. I just hate to leave a thread where I say such awful things, and then suddenly stop communicating. I'm pretty fragile, and I just haven't had the energy to write much. (Most of my energy has been spent on not having a panic attack.) I am doing MUCH better, although I'm still shaky.

BTW, the monster I have always identified with has been Mary Shelley's Creature, in "Frankenstein: or the Modern Prometheus". Intelligent, sensitive, and made of human flesh, but not human. Unable to fit into our world, and ultimately isolated. I wouldn't go after revenge - I totally don't approve of the creature's behavior in that regard - but floating off on the ice in the arctic has definitely seemed like a pleasant thought many times in my life. (Just not right now!)

I'm not a monster though - I know that. Feel like it some days though. Anyway, will say more later. Sorry.

[PaulaQ]

[-]I guess I'm done here on the forum.
For everyone who thinks I'm nuts and full of crap - gratz, you win.
For anyone who was interested in how this all turns out - sorry. I guess just make up whatever ending you feel good about.[/-]

OK, OK, OK, I feel better now. Dang. Note to self: Don't go a week without cross dressing. Makes me nuts, obviously!

[flatlander_48]

Be assured that there are many here who recognize the seriousness of your situation and are really hoping for the best possible outcome. I personally have no idea what that would be, but somewhere there is a solution. And, given the same circumstances but owning to significant differences in backgrounds and experiences, others may reach an entirely different conclusion in how to work this out.

We always like to view things in terms of success or failure, but I think there is more to it than that. There is also how deal with the issues that are placed before us and how we consciously work to retain our dignity and humanity. This is not easy shit, by no means, but I think it is in part why humans were given intelligence and the capability to reason. But, it is easy to forget that we have those tools and that we can apply them as often as is needed.

Anyway, don't assume that because yesterday or last week was exceedingly difficult, tomorrow or next week will be also. It changes. We adjust and adapt and continue...

[PaulaQ]

My wife watched my breakdown on Friday morning, and it worried her. (I didn't even make it out of bed!) So sunday, she asked how I was doing, and I told her the truth for once - "not great." She told me "I'll stay upstairs and work on real estate - you go be YOURSELF downstairs, go get dressed." So she acknowledges that the female presentation of me is the real me. This is big progress.

We've talked about a lot of stuff in the past few days. She's decided not to collapse under the strain of this, and to help me. I'll still stay out of sight of her, and when we're together, I'll do my best to be a good husband. She's able to joke about this with me now - another really good sign.

I think we're going to go ahead and tell our kids, and the rest of the family. People will want to visit, and keeping the secret is a real strain on her. So I'll go ahead and be out to everyone who needs to know. Keeping secrets is hard for her - I'd rather she not be burdened - she's already doing a lot to help me.

Although this all sounds (and is) a LOT better, we'll still separate, and we may divorce soon. I can't transition here - it is really way too dangerous of a place. I can't ask her to leave the only place she's ever felt at home. So at some point in the next few months, we'll likely separate, I'll move to a metropolitan area that is still within driving distance, and visit on the weekends.

I've been able to be Paula for at least a few hours a day for the last four days. I feel HEAPS better.

[arbon]

Hi Paula,

It sounds like some real positive stuff between you and your spouse. I'm glad to hear that.

I hope it goes well telling you kids and family. Its hard to predict how they will take it.
All you can do is take the action you need to, and leave the outcome to them. At that point it will be beyond your control and it wont be your problem.

[PaulaQ]

My wife came home from her therapist visit today, and took a nap. Afterwards, she called me, and told me that "I am ready to see Paula today - I've talked with my therapist about it, and I've thought about it, and if you are ready to let me see you, I am ready to see you."

So I'm downstairs, working. I'm wearing a blue maxi dress and a blue shrug, and black pumps, and a nice gold necklace. I tell her "If you are sure honey, I would love to show you - give me five minutes to fix my face!"

So she came down, and I walked out to her, and she gave me a hug. She was surprised at how I looked - she thought I looked very attractive, and a LOT like my sister. (I see that too.) We talked for quite a while, and she told me:
"You can go ahead and move your clothes into the bedroom, and dress for the day there. You are in crisis, I told my therapist it was time for me to put on my big girl panties, and HELP you. You've helped me over the years so much, to be a stronger and more confident person. I owe you this - you have put me first so many times."

I'm overwhelmed - I just don't know what to say. We talked a lot, and made dinner together. (Trying to cook in pumps - not so much...)

There's some heavy stuff - we're still getting a divorce. But we are committed to helping each other through this. I'll stay here as long as I can. When I am transitioning more, I'll move out, and visit on weekends. (It just isn't safe here in our tiny town.)

It's big progress though. I can't believe this - this happened far more quickly than I'd ever imagined.

We'll have to see if we have a sex life after the reveal. We may not - that is a likely casualty here. :(

Still, she gave me a LOT of compliments - she thought my clothes were tasteful, my walking in pumps surprisingly good, and she was impressed by my eyemakeup and blush. Got some constructive criticism on lipstick and mascara. Good stuff, and great to be able to share with the person I love most in the world.

I warned her that I'll probably talk to much - so when she's tired of this subject, to PLEASE tell me to "shut the F up!"

What a surprising turn of events, huh?

[TeresaCD]

Surprising, Paula, and fantastic! So glad there has been a breakthrough.

[MysticLady]

Still, she gave me a LOT of compliments - she thought my clothes were tasteful, my walking in pumps surprisingly good, and she was impressed by my eyemakeup and blush. Got some constructive criticism on lipstick and mascara. Good stuff, and great to be able to share with the person I love most in the world.

What a surprising turn of events, huh?

Isn't Life wonderful. I'm so happy for you. Kudos to you Girl:hugs:

[arbon]

I am very happy for you, Paula, but I'm not really surprised by how it is with your partner.

one thought I have - if your sex life is important and you want to keep having one ( the impression I get is that you do and that you are going to miss it) then please give it a lot of very, very careful thought before starting hrt.

[PaulaQ]

Thanks arbon, I never thought in a million years that is say this, but I don't care, for myself, about a sex life. I worry about it for my wife, so for that reason, I'll delay HRT as long as I can. If GD says differently, well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

My libido is really low now. I'll see what happens. My wife may not be able to view me as a sex partner now, even presenting as male. We'll see and I'll give this careful thought. Not wanting sex is pretty weird, I have to tell you...

[Angela Campbell]

Sometimes the journey is hard. It is good to have it all out in the open even if it has been difficult. I am happy that things are progressing in a better way for both of you.

[MysticLady]

My libido is really low now. I'll see what happens. My wife may not be able to view me as a sex partner now, even presenting as male. We'll see and I'll give this careful thought. Not wanting sex is pretty weird, I have to tell you...

As my Dad told me.......There's come a time when that season of your life is over. Who knows that better than the individual experiencing it. I'm not surprised by the commercialism of drugs to keep it working due to what I suspect that may be a "kick in the nuts" for a macho man.:heehee:

[PaulaQ]

As my Dad told me.......There's come a time when that season of your life is over. Who knows that better than the individual experiencing it.

I think it's mostly my depression and the antidepressants duking it out. I'm going through a lot right now, so sex isn't a real big priority. Also, the particular antidepressant I'm on makes it nearly impossible to have an orgasm. My therapist isn't too concerned, and neither am I, really.

I've spent most of this week as Paula. Yesterday afternoon, until this afternoon, I was Paula. I went to my support group, went to a restaurant, checked into and then this morning out of my hotel en femme. I went to therapy, got my nails done at the mall, and then out to lunch afterward as Paula. It was a really nice day. I got treated like a woman by quite a number of people, including passers-by. At least some of that time, I guess I passed. Well, I'm not so worried either way, although a woman did come up to me and ask me a question at a restaurant. That felt authentic. I'm pretty sure a woman at the nail salon (another customer) clocked me, but I don't think the nail tech did. (There was enough of a language barrier that it was hard to tell.) Anyway, got "ma'amd" a lot, which was nice.

I expect to tell my kids next weekend. "Hey, sorry, I really won't be needing that tie you got me..." (j/k)

[TeresaCD]

Sounds like its been a good week - you are due one!

[mary something]

I'm glad you're having a good week Paula. You mentioned sex with your wife... it isn't necessary for you to have an orgasm for you to be intimate with her in that way. Nor is it necessary to even use the male equipment to be intimate with her and help her feel good. You've mentioned a couple times that you won't have a sex life later, and like Arbon mentioned you need to think about the effects of hrt if that is a concern. Women think differently about sex than men do.

You're still the same person no matter what clothes you are wearing or gender role you are living. It isn't uncommon for wives to feel uncomfortable having intimate relations when presenting differently but how much of her discomfort is because of your expectation that it won't work?

If she expresses a sentiment that you are too different then just emphasize that you are still the same person inside that you have always been, right? You're not doing this to become somebody or something that you're not right?

[arbon]

Thats awesome Paula!!! :cheer:

I bet it helps a lot with how you have been feeling, to be able to let yourself out in the world some more.

[MysticLady]

Paula..

I'm very pleased to see that you're in a much more cheerful mood. Life is and will be just an experience..that's all. Its great that you've have found a way to turn things around. Kudos to you Girlie:):hugs:

[PaulaQ]

Well, tonight wasn't so much fun. I was meeting my wife at a restaurant in town, but she had to wait on me for a while, because I was fixing a friend's PC, and it took longer than I'd expected. So she had a couple of glasses of wine while she waited, and then one or two more with dinner.

She told me that she doesn't want to see Paula wearing my wedding ring. She doesn't feel Paula's earned it, and she doesn't like Paula much. :( She didn't marry Paula, she says.
So I agreed not to wear it, at least for a while, while presenting as Paula.

She also doesn't want to share our vacation next month with Paula - so if I live by that, no Paula for 6 days. I'm not sure I can do that. I'm not sure what I'll do about this one. Last time I went a week without any cross gender expression (just last weekend), I tried to commit suicide. I don't think I'll do that again, but I really don't want to be having constant depression and anxiety during our vacation time. :(

She told me that she feels that Paula has killed her husband, usurped him, that the only thing keeping the male side of me around is her. So she asked if I'd be Paula 24/7 if she wasn't in the picture for some reason, and I was honest and told her "yes."
She said this was just killing her. I told her that I knew that, and that being male was killing me, and I didn't know how to resolve this horrible conflict between what we each needed.

She feels like I'm two different people, and that Paula has usurped and destroyed the man she married.

I took her home - she was too drunk to drive herself. She went to bed, and I could hear her wailing when she got upstairs.

I'm going to a graduation celebration for my niece this weekend. I was going to go out as Paula with my friend who I'm out to, but he isn't ready for that, so I guess Paula stays locked inside the male version of me this weekend. Drag. Nobody wants Paula this weekend.

[PaulaQ]

It started out so innocently, our conversation this morning:

She mentioned that it didn't seem like I had a very satisfactory trip to Dallas for my niece's graduation party.

I allowed that I hadn't - I was feeling a little sorry for myself, didn't know most of the people there, and was still feeling a little hurt by her comments from Friday. (She got drunk, and really lambasted Paula - she doesn't like Paula, at all. She doesn't want me to wear our wedding ring while I'm Paula. This hurts.)

My friend in Dallas wasn't ready to meet Paula either, so I cancelled my dinner with him. I didn't feel like sitting there, feeling crappy and dysphoric, and discussing this shit.

So I came home instead of spending the night. I said I just wasn't feeling very accepted. She got furious with me for being so negative. I tried to diffuse it, saying "hey look - I mentioned I was feeling a little sorry for myself - I just wasn't feeling it, so I came home."

She was really angry though, and then realized she got angry whenever I expressed negative emotions. I pointed out that this made it difficult for me to really tell her how I feel, that I sometimes have negative emotions.

That set her off - she was like "after all the compromises I've made for you - THIS WAS YOUR CHOICE --- " ...

I started laughing. How ****ing absurd. So I did something I shouldn't have done, and told her the absolute truth:

"Hon, I want to die."

She got more furious, pounded the table and was like "JUST GO DO IT THEN AND PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!!!!"

"You know that my death would create enormous problems for you and the kids."

"YOU CAN'T SAY THAT - IT'S LIKE INVOKING NAZI'S IN AN ARGUMENT - YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH IT, IT'S NOT RIGHT TO DO THAT TO ME"

I wanted to say: "My choice to be Paula seems like a better alternative than the only other one I can think of."

But she said: "I think I need to move to my mom's!"
"That's absurd, you love it here, your life is here, you'd hate it there."
Her: "I think we need to separate"
"OK, I can do that, but I'll need a little time - I have to set things up so I can move and work right away after the move, it'll take a couple of weeks or so. We both need for me to stay employed."

I went out and did some yardwork, and took a nap later.

She told me later, after I got us some dinner, that she didn't want to be without me. Although she's worried she's holding me back.

She doesn't understand why I want to die. Is it because she's holding me back?

So I took a moment to answer, and she took that to mean "yes, it's totally because you can't accept me as a woman."

I had to disabuse her of that. I want to die because I've been in physical and emotional pain for my entire life. My physical pain is bad, but I manage by ignoring it as much as possible. But the emotional pain is always there and right now, it is unbelievable - I hate myself so much, and the idea of 30 more years or so of the nightmare I'm going through now is just not something I can contemplate.

I want an end to my misery. I'm NOT thinking about doing anything about this now - I'm NOT.

I still have some hope that I can transition, and heal emotionally. If I can't - I simply refuse to live in this agony for the rest of my life. Or rather, if I have to live in agony for the rest of my life, my life will be short.

She can't understand this line of thinking at all. I'm simply tired and worn down. I don't want to live in misery any longer. I'm hoping I'll survive until I start feeling better. I'm trying HARD to do it.

Anyway, we may need separate soon. She's miserable. I'm making her miserable. She is desperately unhappy because of me.

I don't know whether or not that'll be better for either of us. Having some support from an unhappy and somewhat accepting (but not totally) spouse vs. being totally alone with my only support being family and friends who just aren't ready to provide much support yet. (Support doesn't mean "I love you and still accept you - now let me argue with you about why this can't really be right...") I lose my therapist and support group too when I go to Dallas. There are others, but I'm restarting everything. For her, she loses what time she has remaining with the male side of me.

By August we'll get divorced anyway. It's just a question of whether we try to stay together for a few more months. I can't transition out here anyway. It's too hostile, even if home becomes wonderful. (It won't. It may improve though.)

Honestly, I really don't see how we get around her dislike of Paula. She doesn't hate Paula, but she doesn't like her, and doesn't want to live with her. She'll live with my male self.

So for now, back in the closet with Paula, and I'll be Scott for her as much as possible, and hide Paula. I don't really see her getting over this before I need to go anyway. I felt last week was kind of a miracle, and almost too good to be true. Turns out - it was too good to be true. Two sightings was all it took.

[TeresaCD]

It started out so innocently, our conversation this morning:
I felt last week was kind of a miracle, and almost too good to be true. Turns out - it was too good to be true. Two sightings was all it took.
Hang in there Paula, hang in there girl.

[PaulaQ]

After visiting with her therapist this week, my wife has decided not to fight this anymore, so I can dress femme at home again now, and she won't freak out. She's trying - this stuff is just super hard.

We're going to counseling together as a couple thursday. I'm hoping she'll go with me en femme, and then go out to lunch with me. I'm going to make sure that's comfortable for her though. I know this is all super hard, and while I need this, I have to consider her too.

We've decided to talk less about this stuff with each other. (Yay!) We've decided to not share our counseling session details with each other. (Double yay!) We're back to me moving out in 5-6 months or so. Which is fine. I need to move when I start to transition. I think that will likely be exponentially harder for her, and it isn't safe in this community to do it. I'm not looking for a bubble-like coccoon of safety - this is the real world. But my town would be hostile, and it's just dumb to try something this hard when facing significant open opposition. Plus, my wife might suffer from the townsfolk, and I will not tolerate putting her in harm's way.

This is a pretty crazy story huh?

edit: I forgot to mention - we're sending my wife away for a 3 days at a spa this weekend. She originally suggested that we both go, and I'd love this - but I pointed out to her "Hey, hon, look - I am mostly what is causing you stress, so why don't you go alone, unwind, relax, think about this stuff, or NOT THINK ABOUT IT AT ALL - whatever you need. Just go alone, go somewhere nice, and I'll stay here." She leaped at that, and is counting down the hours.

[TeresaCD]

This is a pretty crazy story huh?
.

Na, not at all. It's a real privilege to be a part of it ..

[PaulaQ]

My wife and I went to her therapist today together for the first time. I was dressed, and we had a pretty good session, mostly talking about the stuff that happened between us this weekend. We agreed to let me dress at home as much as I need - I'll probably be dressed 80-90% of the time. (Sometimes I have to present as male, at least until I move.) We went out for a nice lunch together afterwards - this was the first time we'd really been out in public together. (The therapist almost doesn't count - his office is very private.)

I'm REALLY comfortable out in public while presenting as a female. I love it, honestly, and can't wait to go 24/7. I know everyone thinks this, and usually they are wrong, but I think I pass some of the time. Kind of surprises me, to be honest.

[Kathy Smith]

As you may have noticed, Paula, I'm not in the US (and I've never been there). I've no idea how things work out in a small town like yours. I am a bit puzzled though.

You insist that the town in general would be hostile to you should you transition. Are you absolutely sure of this? I would have imagined that the malicious tongues are going to wag anyway, either about your transition or about your leaving. Either way it wouldn't be pleasant for your wife and family. At least, if you stay, you'll know what is being said and why and, just maybe, you would be able to do something about it. They won't have the need or opportunity to make up outright lies about your leaving the family home. Wouldn't things calm down after the initial furore?

[PaulaQ]

You insist that the town in general would be hostile to you should you transition. Are you absolutely sure of this? I would have imagined that the malicious tongues are going to wag anyway, either about your transition or about your leaving. They won't have the need or opportunity to make up outright lies about your leaving the family home. Wouldn't things calm down after the initial furore?

Yes, I am absolutely sure of this. This community is mostly older people, and it is conservative, and most of the people are fundamentalists. Religion is very important here. There is also a very good measure of poverty, which breeds a certain amount of intolerance as well. This is a nasty combination. Gossip here is a full-contact sport. My wife sells real estate. She could very well be shunned and lose business - lots of business - because of me. Gay people in this community (and I know four of them) are barely tolerated, and they need to be very stealthy - it needs to be plausible that they are just "two really close friends." (Nobody really believes that - but it's important to be able to pretend that.) Despite this, they still get a fair amount of grief and some people simply will NOT deal with them.

There is a reasonable probability that I could face physical violence here. Certainly I'd face a lot of social hostility. I'd also cause a lot of shame for a number of my friends here.

This is one of the worst places in the continental US to transition. I've been told of a couple of trans people from here - they left.

The nearest support for someone with trans issues is 50 miles away, as is the nearest hospital I'd trust to see me should something go wrong when I start HRT.

I've talked to a LOT of people - NOBODY thinks it would be a good idea for me to stay here. I also don't really believe my wife is going to handle watching me transition anyway.

[Kathy Smith]

Thanks Paula. This is background info that I simply didn't know! I suspect that, if I were to transition (almost certainly not!), then the reaction round here would be "OK. So?" followed by "Have you had the - you know - operation?"! I'd probably get a few odd looks too. It puts us at opposite ends of the scale in that respect.

I really hope that this works out for you. It looks as if you have a really uphill struggle, but it's things like that that we need sometimes - just to prove to ourselves that we are _alive_!

Take care...

[CherylFlint]

I showed this to my wife who said "What's the big deal, you're still you".
You see my wife has known since our first date that I was a CD and has as much fun with Cheryl as I.
She has a husband AND a best girl friend who loves to shop as much as she.
You're wife maybe ought to ligten-up, so says my wife.

[flatlander_48]

Gay people in this community (and I know four of them) are barely tolerated, and they need to be very stealthy - it needs to be plausible that they are just "two really close friends." (Nobody really believes that - but it's important to be able to pretend that.)

This is really a weird phenomenon. I call it the Liberace Syndrome:

Everybody Knows, But Nobody Talks...

[renaej7]

You did the right thing. Things will work themselves out. I know they will. I think we all battle with whether the wife would find someone for masculine but love always prevail.

[PaulaQ]

OK, some updates since it's been a while. I came out to my mom and her husband over the weekend. That went really, really well. She remembered my struggles with this stuff growing up, and so being trans made sense to her. She is sad about my marriage, and feels bad for my wife, but she supports me, and realized I wouldn't announce something like this unless I was really serious. Her husband is a psychologist, so he is open minded, and could appreciate how hard it was for me to come to terms with being trans. anyway both were totally supportive.

This weekend is about coming out to my kids. They are 25 & 26. I'm hoping my wife will be able to kind of keep it together when we tell them. I think this will be hard for them.

[AmyGaleRT]

Paula, I'm happy you're making steps forward. I hope it will be OK with your kids, and that they're open-minded enough to accept you.

- Amy

[PaulaQ]

I think my kids will come around. They are open minded. I'm anticipating they may have trouble at first. Maybe not - but they are at a tough age for this.

Heh, looking back over this thread, I've really gone fast. The epic outbreak of GD I've been dealing with hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm feeling much better now (I don't wear men's clothes much anymore, and my meds are kicking in finally), but I also know I'm on borrowed time. Antidepressants aren't going to keep this stuff at bay forever.

[PaulaQ]

Oh, I did have one incident with my wife to relate. I went to a party held by one of my trans friends on friday. I WAAAY overdressed - good flip flops would've been overdressed - but I wore a LBD with sequins, lots o'makeup, hose, jewelry, and heels. I had fun dressing up - I don't usually do that. My wife saw me, and was furious "what would YOU think if I left the house without you dressed like that?!?!" I wasn't quite sure how to interpret her comments. Also - wish she'd learn something. It's not like anyone at the party could actually DO anything...

I'm not sure if she thought I looked too good, or too bad, or what. I'd assume not silly, since she didn't laugh. I'd ask her what she thought - but discretion is the better part of valor, sometimes...

[PaulaQ]

I came out to my kids as trans this weekend. First question from my step son wasn't about me - it was 'what happens to your marriage'. My wife and I were together as we told them about this - but we had to be honest and tell them that our marriage would end soon, although we intended to stay friends and I'd visit frequently. The kids were much more upset about the marriage than me, to be honest. My son didn't say much - he was worried, I found out later, that I'd have surgery imminently. We disabused him of that notion. My step-son and his fiancé were very accepting, and in fact met me as Paula the next day. I don't appear to be losing my kids over this, which is great.

The visit was tough for my wife though - two days of me presenting as male was nice for her. But when I met my step-son and his fiance as female, that was hard for her.

We were talking this over tonight, my wife and I. She hasn't been doing well since the weekend. I'll be moving out as soon as I can get a place and get settled, hopefully within a month. We'll be divorced within the next 2-3 months, we'll likely start the proceedings about 4 months to the day that I came out to her.

I guess I'll keep up this thread until we file for divorce. There doesn't seem to be much point in carrying on after that. I'll literally be out of our house, and out of her life, I'm suspecting for a while. I think she won't want to see me much while I transition. Maybe she'll never want to see me again.

I'm hoping we'll remain friends, and that I can still visit sometimes - I want that for myself, and for our kids, and future grandkids. But we'll see how that goes. After talking to her tonight, I'm not so sure. This is hard for her, and I've offered to make this as easy for her as I can. Trouble is - I'm the problem. So it seems like the best solution is just for me to be gone.

[PaulaQ]

Everything I try to do seems to hurt my wife. I presented as male and BBQ'd some chicken for dinner. While waiting for dinner, my wife stressed how anxious she was for me to leave. That was a drag, but I tried to be positive and understanding.

Later, she was a little tipsy, and wanted to fool around. We did, and she wept afterwards. :(

Tonight, after she got home, she couldn't stand to talk to me while I presented female, so she went upstairs. I changed back to drab, so I could talk to her, but that just made her feel guilty and cry.

This is just terrible. :(

[AmyGaleRT]

Sigh...it's almost tragic, Paula. It's as neat a cleft stick as ever caught man/woman and woman. You still love each other, but she can't bear you as a woman, and you can't bear yourself as a man.

You do an extremely good job of conveying the raw emotion of the process, though. Big hugs for you :hugs: and a belief that there will be brighter days ahead! :)

- Amy

[PaulaQ]

Thanks Amy.

I think I'll just put on my big girl panties and present as male for the next three days until she leaves for vacation. I'll have to find a phone booth to change in for my makeup apointment after I take her to the airport. That kinda sucks, but it'll be easier on her.

[TeresaCD]

It will go painfully slow, I'm sure.
But it is 3 days, not 30.
Thank goodness

[PaulaQ]

Well, my wife got back from vacation, and has been home for 3 days now. I've been presenting as female the whole time she's been back. (Presenting as male sometimes / female other times is too upsetting to her, and I can't hack being male the whole time.)

So we're sitting on the couch, and she tells me she can't take this anymore, and I need to leave - the sooner the better. I'd planned to leave in 1 month, but that's too long for her to take. I've got a couple of weeks, maybe.

Honestly, I'm not sure if she'll make it a couple of weeks. I may have to pack what I can, schedule a mover to come after I move out, and take the minimal stuff I need and move into my condo, sleeping on the floor until my furniture arrives a week later. Or maybe I just rent a u-haul, move out with my small stuff, leave my furniture here, and buy a desk, chair, sofa, TV and bed for my condo.

I'm quite sad it's come to this. The funny thing is, I don't know if she'd feel better, or worse if I totally melted down in front of her.

Anyway, not sure what else there'll be to say about this thread. I came out to my wife on April 6, and I should be out of here by Aug 3, if not sooner. What else is there really to say about it all?

[arbon]

I'm sorry Paula

This stuff gets real, and it hurts and it sucks.

you've gone through a lot in a short time

now you focus on making you life work as a woman.

[Princess Grandpa]

I just finished reading your story from beginning to current. Sitting here with tears streaming down my face, I am in awe at your strength. I hope you find peace in your new life as Paula. Unless I'm mistaken you feel to blame in all this. I want you to understand you are not some villain. You my dear have acted with great honor.

I can never offer meaningful advice I fear. All I can do is offer my support, respect and love. If you ever need an ear, or a shoulder, pls feel free to message me or something.

Hug
Rita

[PaulaQ]

I woke up at 8AM after going to bed at 5AM (stayed up packing). I was having a full panic attack. I had nightmares all night. I was pleasantly surprised that I could walk downstairs and get a xanax. Slept until 2PM. My wife doesn't understand why I didn't wake her and ask for help. I don't even know how to communicate with her anymore. I am not allowing myself to feel very much. That will come later.

@Arbon - thanks hon. Yep, time to focus on my changes, and yes, shit's gotten real here.
@Rita - thanks hon, I appreciate your support.

[flatlander_48]

The process here is not that different from the passing of a sick relative or close friend. Intellectually we know what is coming, but when it actually happens, it takes us a bit by surprise. You know what needs to be done and the only thing left to do is just do it. Unfortunately that doesn't make it any easier.

I would hope that eventually all parties involved would have some closure around what the situation will be. Until that happens, I would guess it will feel like unfinished business.

Take Care.

[PaulaQ]

Thanks flatlander. I had hoped for enough time to prepare things for her too, but that isn't going to happen. She still wants me to sleep in the same room as her. It is pretty confusing, because she also wants me out. I won't have much time to plan anything. Par for the course.

I know many here feel this is all my fault. Do I wish I'd figured this out at 20? Sure. Since I did not, I am , apparently a horrible and deceitful person. Once I did understand, I feel I've been honest, but judge for yourself from my thread.

I am not sure what I ever did, I was born into terrible suffering, and I have suffered my entire life. I think my lot is to suffer. It is unimaginable to me that it will ever end. Somehow, though, I must be to blame. Who else is there?

[heatherdress]

Dear Paula - This is the first time I have read any of this thread. This reads more like a journal than a site thread. It is moving. I am sorry for all the pain that is shared. I am amazed that so much has happened so quickly. I do not think there is much anyone can offer other than their best wishes for you and your loved ones. Best of luck in your journey.

[flatlander_48]

What we have to understand is that society at large puts a lot of pressure on us to conform, "suck it up and be a man" and to NOT rock the boat. These points are drilled into most of us from the very beginning. The world demands this binary view of life and many of us just don't fit very well, if at all. Nonetheless, we usually try our best to force-fit ourselves into those expectations as (in many cases) we were raised to be "good little boys".

However, things have changed a bit in recent times. We're beginning to relax a bit about the binary notion of gender. Unfortunately this comes a bit late for "men of a certain age", but I hope younger ones won't have it so bad. For us, all we can do is the best we can.

[Diversity]

I have been through what you just expressed. The only thing I can suggest which is working for me and mine, is to keep the lines of comm tunication open. Don't overdue the talking about your needs, however, as that will become an issue for her. Talk to her about your needs as you feel you need to get things off your chest, but again, do this with some 'space' in between. Definitely continue to reasure your wife that you are still the man she married. Go out of your way to do chores, and all the things you have done before. Also, make sure you continue to tell your wife how much you love her, and how much she is the number one person in your life.
Put her needs ahead of your own. Be sensitive to her wishes but do talk openly and reach compromises about things which you feel are important to you.
While you need to be true to yourself, you also need to be understanding about the emotions and sensitivities your wife is now feeling due to the shocking new news you have just delivered to her.
Again, open and honest communications are the key to your future with your wife and to your future success and understanding with one another. Good luck!
Di

[PaulaQ]

I guess you came to the thread late...


The only thing I can suggest which is working for me and mine, is to keep the lines of comm tunication open. Don't overdue the talking about your needs, however, as that will become an issue for her.

I am unable to communicate with her about anything of substance. She wants me to leave, NOW, I make preparations for that to happen, and it upsets her because she needs me to leave, but doesn't want me to leave. She tells me to leave, and then is suprised that I don't ask her for help when I'm having a panic attack. She is simply reacting. Her reactions seem almost completely random and unpredictable.


Definitely continue to reasure your wife that you are still the man she married. Go out of your way to do chores, and all the things you have done before. Also, make sure you continue to tell your wife how much you love her, and how much she is the number one person in your life.

I'm just not though - that is the problem for her.


Put her needs ahead of your own. Be sensitive to her wishes but do talk openly and reach compromises about things which you feel are important to you.
While you need to be true to yourself, you also need to be understanding about the emotions and sensitivities your wife is now feeling due to the shocking new news you have just delivered to her.

I've tried this. It failed.



Again, open and honest communications are the key to your future with your wife and to your future success and understanding with one another. Good luck!
Di

My wife and I are done. We'll be divorced in a couple of months. It took ~100 days from coming out to being told "get out now." She wants open and honest communication to see me in pain. Somehow, it matters to her that I'm miserable.

I will spend the rest of my time here, until I move as close to being emotionless as I can be. It's easier on me anyway.

[PaulaQ]

I'm moving 180 miles away, into a condo my uncle used to own. It will be 120 days from coming out to leaving home, almost certainly forever. I told my wife on the first Sunday of April, and by the first Sunday in august, I'm literally out.

I guess this is a good place to stop this narrative. It's pretty awful between me and my wife. I don't really expect it to improve, not anytime soon, possibly not ever.

There are plenty of folks here who tell me this is all my fault somehow. I dunno, I guess you can be the judge of that.

But I'm Paula, I told the truth, and this is my story. Thanks for reading it.

[Wildaboutheels]

Well, you have certainly come a long way. YOUR Intro VVV

************************************************** *****************************

Hi. I am a liar
I'm not really sure where this is all going, to be honest. I've lied to the few people who've happened on to this little fact about me, most especially myself. (Really only a couple of people have ever known.)

I don't seem to be able to lie to myself about this so much anymore - part of me really likes dressing up. What started out as trying on some panties or stockings has escalated, to the point where a week or so ago, I realized "I need breasts." Not really "gee, this stuff I'm kinda playing around with would be more fun and a better fantasy if I had some boobs." No, just the simple, rather clear thought "I need breasts." (I'll ask advice on this in another thread.)

I'm concerned that I've lied to my wife about this, but I'm not so sure I should tell her either. We've been together a long time. I think it probable that she'd take this as a betrayal - that I'd deceived her. (Most of the time I'd been deceiving myself, too.) I also am not sure it's fair - after 20 years, I think it'd be fair to argue that this changes the deal, significantly.

I do appreciate this forum, though - there seems to be a lot of good advice here, and many people who relate feelings similar to ones I've felt, at least when I'm honest enough to admit it. The profile pictures are encouraging too - you are all so lovely - I can't imagine looking so good, although part of me surely wants to. (Another part of me hates THAT part of me - if I'm to be completely honest.)

I am sorry for the melodrama there, for what should properly be just a light a fluffy "hello!" So "hello!" and thank you so much for allowing me here!

************************************************** *********************************

Even though your story is only from your POV, it is very well documented step by step, and MAY serve as a cautionary tale against the "You MUST spill the beans" crowd. Everyone's situation is different.

IF and when you transition, I hope you stick around and continue to share your story.

Conversely, if you don't, I hope you would also find the courage to share that also.

[Angela Campbell]

Somehow, though, I must be to blame. Who else is there?

Must there always be blame?

[PaulaQ]

@Wild - thanks for quoting my intro post. That brought this all full circle very nicely. Yes, I no longer believe I'm a liar. I've tried to be as honest as humanly possible here. I know other prominent forum posters disagree with that. I doubt they'll change their minds about that, and I'm tired of arguing with them, so my story will just have to stand as it is. Wasn't a very typical intro post, was it?

@Ellen - I don't blame myself anymore. I don't blame anybody. I've been told by many here that I should take responsibility for my "choices." Why anyone would choose to be a woman trapped in a man's body, I dunno. Apparently though my wife gets a pass to be as hostile as she wants - the forum heavyweights tell me it's my fault because I should've been honest with her when we married. (I hadn't dressed in years, and I didn't understand myself what was going on with me. I was in full-scale denial.) But whatever. I guess people can read my story and judge for themselves.

[flatlander_48]

There are some events that occur in life that really put us to the test. And, sometimes that's just what it feels like: a test. Often we don't see it coming, but even if we do, it is still a shock to deal with.

However, when we are confronted with these very difficult situations, we do have the choice to try to deal with them or fold the tent and move on. Those are the only choices that we are really given. PQ, the fact that you chose to move forward in spite of how difficult things got speaks volumes about how important all this was to you. Granted, there have been sacrifices along the way and perhaps more await. We just don't know. But, that's the nature of Life. We just don't know until we get there.

I don't believe for a moment that this is your fault. We can't predict how things are going to sit for us 5 or 10 years down the road. The human mind is an extraordinary device, but it can definitely hide things from our consciousness. Yes, if we knew we may have done things differently, but how would be know?

Anyway, Good Luck to you and keep moving forward.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Paula, Your story just makes me feel lucky that mine is a DA/DT for the last twenty years my wife just tolerates it
but doesn't want to see me dressed .
She once said that she just wanted it all to go away ,
I said the only way it would go away is if I take it with me when I leave we are both too old for that, just six months short of our 50th anniversary .

Paula, I wish you all the best in your future travels may you find the happiness that you so deserve .
You will always have your friends here >Orchid

ps: Maybe it is all for the best.

[PaulaQ]

I'm taking a break from packing (I leave sunday), and I'm just incredibly sad.

I asked my wife if she'd like me to present as male one last time before I go, so I could spend the evening with her. She said "Yes, I didn't know how to ask you for that." So I changed, and we watched TV together for the evening. (She is going to a friend's to spend the night after work tomorrow - she can't bear to watch me leave.)

At the end of the movie we watched, she pointed out that this was the end of our 20 year long relationship. We both started crying - we both agreed that it had been a good 20 years, and that she doesn't regret it, even though it's incredibly painful now, to separate and divorce. Neither one of us wants to part, but she can't bear me as a woman. She just can't. Hopefully with some separation and time to heal up, we'll be able to at least be friends. We both cried a lot during this conversation.

She told me she feels that she's failing me. I just told her that "we are who we are hon, it's no one's fault," and "I don't want this - I would never have chosen what I'm going through."

I'm crying now, as I write this. What a terrible situation. What'd we do to deserve this?

Out of all the storms we've weathered as a couple over 20 years, this one ended our relationship in 4 months, almost to the day.

[AmyGaleRT]

Paula, let no one say you didn't try your best. Least of all me!

But sometimes we face a no-win scenario, which is a test of our character. You've held up under that test pretty well, all things considered.

Be comforted in knowing that, when one door closes, another opens. Time to concentrate on Paula for awhile, and see what develops. :hugs:

- Amy

[Kathy Smith]

Out of all the storms we've weathered as a couple over 20 years, this one ended our relationship in 4 months, almost to the day.


This is so sad, I really feel for both of you.

However, things like this (and much worse) happen. We have to face it. At least in your case the split is amicable.

Hugs ...

[PaulaQ]

However, things like this (and much worse) happen. We have to face it. At least in your case the split is amicable.


Thanks, but last night was the first night in 2 weeks she hasn't been just horrible to me. And at notime did she say "just stay longer." She's still throwing me out with 2 weeks notice too. I think when she realizes that her life is going to change, and that what the law stipulates for divorce is substantially less than what I offered, and that my prior offer is off the table, a full freak out will ensue. (I can only take so much, and she threw my offer back in my face, shouted obscenities, and is still kicking me out.)

We did say goodbye this morning, that was sad, but nice too.

[Princess Grandpa]

I have nothing to say but need to say something. In the short time I have been here and followed your thread I hoped against hope. I believe you acted with all honor and I am so sorry for what you must be feeling. For what it's worth I have deep respect for you and how you have handled this.

I strongly urge you to get a good lawyer and quickly. IMHO you have bent over backwards to try and make this work or be easier. I am glad you are not necessarily going into the divorce proceedings that way as well. You have to protect your future as much as you can.

HUG
Rita

[flatlander_48]

Sometimes we can choose the Path that we take. Other times, the Path chooses us, but there is no Why to it.

In a way, it is good that the separation is painful. If it were not, what would that say about the significance of the last 20 years?

Relationships do come and go. It is the nature of things. But, it is good to recognize their passing and mourn them. And, as the period of mourning is past, we continue living our lives as best we can. That is all we can do.

[Stevie]

I really feel for you Paula. Hopefully you both can still be friends.

[TeresaCD]

Hi Paula. Sad way to end, feeling for you..