I won't CD if you won't...? The flip side of DADT?

[Wildaboutheels]

I feel pretty sure not many here have ever tried that line with your SO?

Does YOUR SO have any characteristics or traits that you could happily live without if it WAS as simple as asking?

On the other hand, how many here, make "bargains" with your SOs based on your CDing?

How many here have SOs with at least one interest [let's say bridge for example] that you have not the slightest interest in playing or discussing? Is this not a simply a different version of DADT?

I'm not directly comparing the two.

But under certain circumstances, they might be comparable.

[Brynna M]

I can honestly say I have never tried or even considered that argument. More because I know it wouldn't go well (the few time my SO and I have talked about CDing)

At the same time the argument falls apart because CDing violates gender norms. For men gender roles are a sacred cow that no one in our society dares question. A love of bridge( however personally distasteful doesn't violate any societal taboos.

[SandraInHose]

Tried that with the wife when she reacted badly upon learning of my secret. I offered that if SHE wore pantyhose often I would cease to, but she thought about for a minute and said, "They're all yours".

This coming from a woman who during our early stages or our dating/marriage (mid 80's thru early 90's) would wear them 6 days a week, even under slacks. Once she found out how much I liked them, she hardly wears them at all...maybe 5-6 times a year for a special function or engagement. And still bitches about having to wear them those few times. I guess my wearing them scarred her a bit..you think?!

[UNDERDRESSER]

The example you gave won't fly, because the the objection to CDing from partners, is that it somehow is a slur on, or has an impact on, said partner. ( this is my take on how SOs react negatively, for the most part ) Bridge? Just means some nights doing their own thing. Something a bit more direct? Smoking is the only thing that comes to mind at the moment.

[Wildaboutheels]

So what about folks who lead "normal" lives? Both spouses have normal 8-5ish M-F jobs. Both home almost every night. How much of that home time do people actually spend together doing the same activity? Watching the same show/s for instance. Or playing cards or some other type game? I would be very surprised if people spend more than half of their home time engaged with each other?

Their ARE Forum dinos here [OK, at least one who lives across the pond] who have been dressing for a long time and have no desire or intention to go anywhere dressed. Make any difference? [CD at home only]

[Allison Chaynes]

One of the concessions I made when we talked to a therapist (other issues at play also) was to start going to church with her. That's really about the only painful one for me, as I don't agree with her denomination. But if it means she's happy and tries to be accepting of me, then I'll try.

[DebbieL]

I have used a variation. My first wife liked to dress "Comfortably" - which usually meant flannel shirts, baggy cord pants, crew socks, and athletic shoes. When she would make snyde remarks about my cross-dressing, I told her that I would prefer that she wear 3 inch heels, hose, a short skirt at least 2 inches above the knee, and a satin or silk blouse that made her look "Properly Feminine". Since I was never allowed to wear what I really wanted to wear, she should be willing to wear what I wanted her to wear on week-ends and one or two nights a week.

Initially, it worked. She did start dressing up a few days a week, but the second she knew she was pregnant with our first child, she lost all interest in sex and refused to dress at all. She made it very clear that if I wanted out, she would take everything she could get, along with the kids and child support.

7 years later, she finally DID start wearing short skirts, and panty-hose with back-seams, and even 2 inch heels. She raided MY WARDROBE to dress up for her boyfriend. She was going "Bowling". I smirked and said "Have fun balling". She had already told me she wanted a divorce, and I had told her she had to wait for at least one year so that I would know that he was up to the job of not only being her husband, but also to be a good father to the children. If he flaked out, she could come back to me. Ether way, I started dressing, going to AA meetings, NA Meeting, and AA and NA dances as Debbie. I was seeing a therapist to help me with transition, and was preparing to change jobs.

Be careful what you ask for, and how you try to bargain. If your wife wants to make you happy, she will work out a deal with you, but if she just wants to control you, she will make certain to make you sorry that you ever tried such a maneuver.

As for going to church, you might want to negotiate which church you go to. If her church is not "Diversity Friendly" to the GLBT community, such as Baptists, Assembly of God, Mormon, or Nazarene, then offer to compromise and go to a GLBT friendly church with her, and even agree to participate actively as your talents allow. Sing in the choir with her, teach Sunday School, or help out in what other ways are appropriate. Ideally, you should be able to attend as Jessica and still be welcome, even if you have been clocked.

When you go to her church, you should speak in defense of gay marriage. If they treat you like "Anathema", rejecting you, then choose a different church. Methodists, Episcopal, and many Presbyterian churches are more diversity friendly. You might even check the local GLBT community center to see which churches are "Friendly". Look for themes like Rainbows someone on or in the building. In many churches, they will even have signs or flyers for GLBT support programs.

[ReineD]

Wilde, I'm curious. You speak of turning the tables on the wife and I'm wondering how your own wife feels about the CDing. Or does she know? Also, how much do you CD ... full-on with wig, makeup, forms, etc, or just the clothes? Or is it just some but not all the clothes (like just a skirt, or just underwear, etc).

[Eryn]

I don't think that a completely symmetrical situation is possible. A wife's acceptance of CDing is a Really Difficult Thing, far more so than any comparable situation. The only thing I can offer my spouse for her support is to be supportive to her in any way I can.

[Beverley Sims]

I have an agreement with my wife like that.
It works very well.

If I give up eating chocolate, she will too.
I told her I might start next year. :)

[sometimes_miss]

I don't think that a completely symmetrical situation is possible. A wife's acceptance of CDing is a Really Difficult Thing, far more so than any comparable situation. The only thing I can offer my spouse for her support is to be supportive to her in any way I can.

I tend to agree. I would have offered my ex wife anything I could, but nothing would be enough for her. She simply found crossdressing to be a deal breaker. I didn't like it, but I understand.

[Natalya]

I suppose it depends to what extent being CD/TG is an immutable part of yourself but the only situations I see as comparable are where our partners hold conflicting political or religious opinions. A Democrat can live with a Republican, an atheist with a Roman Catholic, for example, but only so long as each respects the position of the other; as soon as that respect breaks down and one wants the other to change, there will be trouble.

I often feel that we would do well, when bemoaning a lack of CD/TG acceptance by our SOs, to consider how we would feel if our SO held strong political or religious views that were anathema to our own.

Natasha

[noeleena]

Hi,

so if one has crossdressed for some time & then say you wont if your S O wont do something you dont like sounds like a non issue , if cross dressing means that little to you why do it in the first place, because then there is no issue this is about will power is it not,

Cross dressing is not just about the clothes theres far more to this its Mental Psychological & Emotional, How deep do we need to take this.

Okay its really about trying to be like someone else. look like someome else. i see very little that would compare to cross dressing, apart from some one doing a act in a play dressed up. as a woman, so where does it stop . if you do this i'll do that. cluching at straw seems to come to mind,

To me this is you wont your way & if your SO wont bend or meet you some where along the way theres a problem.

Now i do have an answer to this delemer. its really quite simple though you both would have to agree to this .

you both can dress ...up... skirts or dress's & they do look quite lovely though the years maybe , never mind you both join our world wide The SCA Renaissance group spend time to gether or meeting others with like minds .

Our men some 100 or so do just that you see its about clothes only one miner detail & of cause you wont like it, none of our men are trying to be women. thats all.

Well your dealing with a woman here & this is how i see it, clothes they are really lovely even for the men & yes they in my mind look pretty good lovely in fact .

so there you go. try that,

...noeleena...

[Ellanore G.G.]

Hi Wild.
Years ago I used to bargain.
that was before I really knew anything about c/ding.
I looked on it as a fetish " thats what it was at the time".
So Id say ok you can have 2 nights in a hotel if you have the kids for 2 nights while I go to visit my mom/sister/etc.
LOL at the childishness of it all .
But that worked for us, for a WHILE.
because he started bargaining back......he wanted to be "rewarded" for everything he done around the house.
not in a bad way, but more in a " please can I have my time now".
Now we are older, things have changed, hes not very much fetish.
So Its not for me to tell him what he can or cant wear.
Of course kids still come first. but Im more relaxed as it became " normal" for me to see him fully dressed over time.

[*ROXY*]

The way I see it is if your crossdressing was by way a reaction to something your wife did and only because of that then this kind of compromise would be appropriate.
Say for example, your wife stopped bathing, washing her hair, brushing her teeth (ok that's going to signify something more inherantly wrong but run with me) and you disaproved so subsequently started doing the same stating, if you start washing I will too - THAT is a comparison.
The only similar thing was if your wife was dressing male along with comparable additions such as mens wig, false facial hair etc.
You can't compare a hobby you don't like with presenting as a female to your wife.

[Angela Campbell]

So I will stop being left handed if you stop breathing? It will not work in the end. If the SO is so completely against it that acceptance must be purchased through bargaining there is no chance of a successful long time relationship including you being what and who you are.

Once you have taken the amazingly huge risk of telling your partner of this the chips fall where they may. If she can accept it and even embrace it then the relationship grows. If she cannot it will be a slow degradation to a very sick relationship in which neither one is happy. DADT means that you partner has rejected part of you, and likely has lost the respect for the rest of you. It may be subtle but it is something which will grow into something unhealthy.

We can have sex if you buy me that fur coat....is this really a relationship that is good for both partners.

[NicoleScott]

When you go to her church, you should speak in defense of gay marriage.

This is about DADT crossdressing and flipping the bargain on the mate. Now here comes a religious argument (against forum rules, you know. But since you're a TS, it's allowed). Why is it that a crossdresser must be "all in" to all LGBT issues? And, if you go to a church that teaches against gay marriage, you might want to go to another church, but it would be inappropriate to speak out against church teachings at the church.

[Wildaboutheels]

"All's fair in Love and War".

Except CDing.

Sorry, not buying it. People and couples bargain for all kinds of stuff, all the time, possibly with stuff they don't even have or have no intention of doing.

I'm not saying anyone should do it or that it is right for ANYone. But ...CDing is not life or death for EVERYone and/or I hate my male parts and would transition in a nanosecond if I just had the money.

I don't know that it is productive [given the current divorce rate] for people to be telling others what is right or wrong or OK between 2 ADULTS doing whatever is needed to make their Relationship work.

Is it?

Polygomy or open marriage is certainly not my cup of tea, but I would never go around proclaiming it's wrong or can never work simply because it wouldn't work for me.

[suchacutie]

We're celebrating our 40th wedding anniversary in a few weeks. I think this whole notion of "bargaining" is one of the most destructive forms of interpersonal relationship that I can imagine. What happened to both caring about each other and having interest in helping their mate be happy? What happened to interpersonal communication where behaviors that might be negative in a relationship are discussed and understood from both perspectives? What happened to love?

Ok, I understand that the transgender issue is a big one, but if it stays a bargaining situation, it will continue to stay difficult. IMHO.

One might bargain with the butcher. We don't bargain with each other. I hope what we do is to be supportive of each other, even when we don't agree, or have no interest.

[Stephanie47]

I'm trying to figure out what I could get my wife to give up if she does not object to me parading around the house in makeup, wig, bra, girdle, panty, slip, dress, hosiery and three inch high heels. I can't think of anything that would make it a fair trade.

I guess I could argue that I would love to do the laundry, ironing, cooking, baking and vacuuming en femme, but, she already know I do that, as a retiree, dressed as a male.

Er, I am assuming or she could figure it out that I do my domestic chores en femme when she is at work.

[~Joanne~]

how many here, make "bargains" with your SOs based on your CDing?

From a lot of reading on the forum, a lot of girls here do. They make these bargains I think TO CD thinking this may be their road to acceptance and I don't know if this works or not. Personally, I don't make bargains with my SO. I do what I do and she does what she does. We don't have to say to each other "ok, if you want to do this, I get to do this" it just seems extremely childish. We are two grown adults.



This coming from a woman who during our early stages or our dating/marriage (mid 80's thru early 90's) would wear them 6 days a week, even under slacks. Once she found out how much I liked them, she hardly wears them at all...

This just sounds so familiar it's scary. My SO use to wear them all the time also and then stopped one day and never wears them anymore. Not because women said they were out of style or for grannies, she just did. I have always wondered why and when asked all she says is she never goes anywhere that requires them. I asked where we could go that would require them and she draws a blank every time lol

[ShelbyDawn]

I actually seriously considered this. I wold stop dressing if she would stop the physical, emotional and psychological abuse.
I realized that even if she could(she can't), I would be stuck in a relationship with a very angry person whom I did not like and had very little respect for, so there was no point in making the offer.
In general, this type of arraingement only breeds resentment and that is the last thing most married CDers need is more resentment in their marriages.

A little history on my case for anyone interested...
Two counselors, mine and ours, independantly told me to investigate something called Borderline Personality Disorder to understand why she acted the way she did. Iread teh book "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and it fit my life to a 'T'.

I have had a proclivity to dress for as long as I can remember. The stress of my relationship with her brought it to full bloom - there were times before the divorce that I absolutely HAD to dress. Now that the stress is mostly gone, I dress when I want to and just enjoy it.

[ReineD]

"All's fair in Love and War".

Except CDing.

Sorry, not buying it. People and couples bargain for all kinds of stuff, all the time, possibly with stuff they don't even have or have no intention of doing.

You're trivializing the most significant way that people show their gender - through clothing and other adornment that ARE designated as either masculine or feminine in our culture. So are you saying that gender should not matter or there should be no difference between the two?



But ...CDing is not life or death for EVERYone and/or I hate my male parts and would transition in a nanosecond if I just had the money.

If you would transition in a nanosecond, then your appearance does matter to you. So how can you trivialize a man who wears women's clothing to a wife who has not grown up in a world where men wear women's clothing?

You never did mention. To what extent do you crossdress and does your wife support this? Does she know?

[kimdl93]

Even though my wife was from the beginning more understanding and accepting than most, there was a time when she didn't want to see me fully en femme...and I respected that wish. I wore women's clothes and my forms, but no wig. I finally reached a point where I could not stand being half way and we talked it through. Not a bargain like your example, but an understanding that this really is me and that while I can hide if necessary, it's always here. She came to accept that and I was able to escape that narrower arrangement.