R U this kind of CD? R there many of us here with no "female side"?

[docrobbysherry]

After joining cd.com 5+ years ago, I read a lot about everyone's, "fem side". It all sounded so wonderful! I waited patiently and expectantly for my "fem side" to finally appear. But, after all these years, I've given up waiting for her to show!:sad:

Apparently, I am simply, "a man who likes to dress in women's clothes". I look at the woman I become in the mirror. And, I imagine what that image would feel like if I were her. But, ALL my perspective seems to be from a male's point of view! No fem views or feelings that I'm aware of.:straightface:

A recent thread asked how we, "---- CD's, embrace both our male and female sides"? Which seemed quite presumptuous to me. Because she assumed we all have both. Made me feel left out. Once again!
And, after some thot, that all sounds a bit more like a TS issue than a CD one to me?

I am the only one here that's not conscious of having a female side?:battingeyelashes:

[~Joanne~]

A recent thread asked how we, "---- CD's, embrace both our male and female sides"? Which seemed quite presumptuous to me. Because she assumed we all have both. Made me feel left out. Once again!

I am so sorry Doc :( I didn't mean for it to come across that way. I didn't think that deep into and like I said my wording choices were surly piss poor.

I do feel that I have a femme side. It's what drives me to dress, shop, shave, and take care of myself better than if I only had a male side. The two sides make the whole though so I wouldn't have it any other way but that's where the femme side stops. I think that if it didn't stop there then yes I would be moving towards the TS side of things but I do not have that inner conflict.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Come on, Doc. Are you just poking a stick in the cage for some here? Before they lower the boom, you can see that both of us joined this forum in 2007, and I am still just a man in a dress.

Liz

[Frédérique]

I am the only one here that's not conscious of having a female side?

Nope. Count me in. I don’t have a female “side,” either. How come you and I aren’t friends? :idontknow:

I'm just a man in a dress. Always was, and always will be... :clap:

[Wonderwho]

I am all in with you, the whole stack of chips on Red. The fact that I am here has allowed me to see what the other side is doing.
No matter wat way the mirror is facing I am still just a guy in some womans clothes. I am not knocking any of this world that I am a part of but i haven't found my "femm" side anywhere.
Hang on to your wig, the s**t may hit the fan soon.

[Lisa Gerrie]

It seems to me that a masculine or feminine "side" exists only when we consciously try to hide part of ourselves. If we feel that we need to conceal certain traits or thoughts, we have no choice but to manage them as a separate -- separatable -- part of our personality.

There is only one person living between my ears, no matter how it feels sometimes.

[Karren H]

I don't take sides or have them..... I have one side with male and female tendencies.... attributes that blur and smoosh together..... Not quite a man in a dress.... not quite a woman in a dress suit and wing tips.....

[Jenniferathome]

Nope. I'm right with you. I'm just a different kind of guy when dressed but tastes are the same.

[Beverley Sims]

I like to be fair I tend not to take sides until I know which side is winning.

[Kate Simmons]

Just one comment RS. If we truly get in touch with all of our feelings and take ownership of them, the whole becomes greater than the sum of it's parts, any "sides" notwithstanding. Besides I have a "magic" GL ring, so can become anything I want to at any given time.;):battingeyelashes::)

[Wildaboutheels]

Wearing various "female" clothing items, does not mean one has a female side, is trying to be feminine, or is trying to pass as a female. And it makes no difference whether they ever leave their house. They are JUST clothes to some folks.

Being a man is so much easier and simpler and I live and will die by the KISS principle.

And as everyone knows, [but some refuse to admit] there is no right or wrong way to CD.

[NicoleScott]

No female side, Doc, it's just the clothes, but I would guess that the clothes (plus the rest) have a far bigger impact on me than the casual clothes of the feminine identity dresser. Dressing is an event I like to do occasionally. Well, I'd LIKE to do it often, but GET to do it occasionally.
Wild, yes, everyone "knows" it, but some still insist that those who crossdress the wrong way sit in the back of the CDing bus with Doc and me.

[RADER]

Sherry;
I am with you on this subject. I get all dressed up and still feel like a guy in a dress.
I would think that if you where transitioning, you might or would have a more female
side to you. There are a lot of us here who just love to dress up in Female clothes.
There is nothing wrong in this, We are just enjoying the moment.
Rader

[suzy1]

I have a very real feminine side to me.
Argue with that and I will scratch your eyes out B***h.:heehee:

Seriously though, I really do. Suzy is the real me :straightface:

[Crissy Kay]

Yeah doc, I am pretty much the same person no matter how I am dressed.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Sherry, I tend to forget about the guy who got all the pretty things out for Orchid to get dressed up with.

[ninapuella]

I think it is healthy to not identify to much with the "female-side".

[AllyCDTV]

Nope, no fem side here. When I'm dressed and try to act feminine, that's all it is, an act. When I see myself in a mirror, it's more like, "Who's that chick in the mirror?" rather than "That is me."

[PaulaQ]

There is pretty clearly a spectrum of folks here, ranging from male identifying CDers to folks with both a masculine and feminine side, to folks who who identify as female and think the male side is. an act. I'd actually like to be in the 'male identifying' or even the 50/50 camps. Increasingly though it's becoming more clear to me that. I identify as female.

[Laura912]

An amalgam...both blended...no side to it...just moi!

[Jilmac]

Sherry, I believe that our "female" side is what we contrive in our own mind. I know full well, that I'm now, and always will be a male, however it's possible for me to portray feminine charicteristics even when I'm in drab. My female side comes out at times whether I dress or not. For many years I was deep in the closet, but dressing and enjoying the persona I saw in the mirror. During that closeted time I sported a full beard, didn't use makeup or wigs, couldn't afford a feminized body suit, but what I saw from the neck down was truly the girl I wanted to be in my mind. My feminine side is as much a part of my whole, as my heart and lungs. Perhaps your feminine side comes out when you put on your body suit and mask, and you see the girl of your dreams in the mirror.

[Deedee Skyblue]

DocRS, I am similar. I am a guy who likes to wear women's clothing. I sometimes fantasize about being a girl - but I never feel like I am a girl, or that I'm becoming more girly.

Deedee

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Doc, I'm sorry you're feeling out of place, but...you have been here long enough to realize you're not the only one like you. There have been many "I don't have a feminine side, anyone else like me?" threads over the years.

We are Multitudes....there are all kinds of transfolk here. More than one can count, ReineD recently posted a description of a tiny number of the varying kinds. That's one of the reasons I sometimes describes crossdressing or transness as "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" to reinforce the point.

So yes, there are crossdressers who don't have feminine sides...it happens.

There are also crossdressers who DO have feminine sides but refuse to acknowledge they have one because the concept is "scary" to themselves in one way or another....that also happens.

And there are crossdressers who do have feminine sides and pretty much identify with women, even if they don't identify as one...that also happens.

And so on and so forth.

But the issue here is selection bias.

For one thing, crossdresers without a feminine side don't feel as much of a need for support...they tend to not join message boards like this, especially after they figure out that it's full of feminine iidentified people. They also tend to not join support groups outside of the internet.

I remember a member of a message board, might have been here, or not, who got a little frustrated at all the women on that board, and they expressed that and said they weren't referring to the TS's or GG's but to all the crossdressers who acted and thought "like chicks". This person mentioned that they didn't like traditionally femmy women in the real world and didn't want to hang around them on the internet.

I was once a member of Tri-Ess, and while almost all members of the group did identify as transgendered and said they had feminine sides, every once in a while we'd get someone who didn't showing up. It was both sad and funny to see their reactions and their faces when they realized that they were "dudes" surrounded by a bunch of people who identified with and/or as women to varying degrees. I felt sorry for them and thought "Dude, you just didn't know that Tri-Ess was full of "chicks" but now you know and you feel out of place." We never saw them again after the first meeting, sad really.

And there are LOTS of reasons that one can feel out of place. I felt out of place in Tri-Ess myself, for varying reasons.

And mentioning that one never masturbated while dressed (or at all for that matter) like the majority did, tends to get one "looks" in a CD oriented support setting. It also leads to not so subtle suggestions that one is a TS (Asexual transfolk tend to be more likely to be TS)

I can understand the feeling of feeling alone...but I know we are not alone. URNotAlone! Ha ha I made a joke.

Veronica

[sometimes_miss]

Doc, those who separate their female and male side are probably just compartmentalizing their lives rather than actually have multiple personalities; guys tend to do that to make our lives easier to deal with. Then you will have some who deep down inside, can't accept anything feminine about their 'true selves' so they put it into a separate personality which they turn on and off, often with their dressing up activities.

Me, I only have one 'side', but am careful not to display any of the female traits to the outside world. So I 'act' the part of a normal male whenever I go out of the house. Doesn't change who I am or who I feel like I am, but it makes it easier to live amongst the rest of the world.

[Ressie]

I'm so confused now, I don't know! I'm a guy, but not very macho. Like AllyCDTV, I like to act out female mannerisms when dressed. My personality can become more feminine than some woman in a way, but there's so much to being a female that I could never relate to, cuz I'm a guy. :D

[Angela Campbell]

I think it is healthy to not identify to much with the "female-side".

Then I am unhealthy as hell.


But I know quite a few who do not have a fem side and just like to wear the clothes. They do not act fem at all when dressed, they just like to do it for fun. It seems like they are very happy too.

[Sissy_Michelle]

This is a good topic, one which I can kind of relate to. But I know having someone to dress up with helps out a lot.

[Monique53]

I know with me it is all about the clothes! I don't try to present as a female,but, wear feminine things just because its fun and exciting to do so. Maybe, it's the "Taboo" factor and gives me a little spice to my perceived booring life. I have to admit that I like to see others reactions when they notice my bright red toenails, while wearing women's sandals or that they notice that I have boobs and I'm wearing a bra, even though I have no makeup or wig to disguise my obvious maleness. Each of us has our own ideas and goals when CDing and there is no specific template for any of us. If that were the case, then we are right back to the expectations of society's norms for what is proper for each gender. I consider myself a rebel and I'm gonna do what I want to. You only live once so I feel that I will do whatever I like because I am my own person and don't have to explain my actions or motivations to anyone!!

Monique

[kimdl93]

Nope. I don't know if there's a fem side and a male side...there is "me". But me is either an interesting mix of genders, of indeterminate proportions, or just a mixed up person, depending on your point of view.

But I'm certainly not just a man I'm women's clothes...decidedly not that.

[Princess Chantal]

For one thing, crossdresers without a feminine side don't feel as much of a need for support...they tend to not join message boards like this, especially after they figure out that it's full of feminine iidentified people. They also tend to not join support groups outside of the internet.


Once they do join they seem to be the type to stick and stay in becoming longtime members of crossdressing social groups.

And Sherry, count me in the bunch that doesn't have a femme side.

[Lucy_Bella]

Doc , you're not alone.. I have always felt that there is no female side of me.. Or is that just my own opinion of myself? When I am presenting in front of other people ( which is very rare) I have been told that I am different ..

Strange because I thought I didn't act any different than if I was dressed in DRAB around them...I was told that I do.. I present more body language when I sit ,stand or even walk while dressed..I talk the same , think the same but to them I come across totally different..Sometimes it takes others to pick up on things we miss about ourselves..

[I Am Paula]

I had a male side and a female side. I 'accidentaly' left the male side in Sears tool dept. I never went back to get it.

[DonnaT]

I can don a skirt and get the satisfaction of relieving my need to crossdress. I do not need the makeup and wig. Not that I don't like the makeup and wig, but can be happy as a man in a dress.

Do I have a fem side? Well, I believe I am transgender, or bigender, so I most likely do have a fem side, but I've never thought of myself as a woman, not even close.

I've elaborated more at http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?193845-No-female-side-but-what-gives!

[Jason+]

Nope. Count me in. I don’t have a female “side,” either. How come you and I aren’t friends? :idontknow:

I'm just a man in a dress. Always was, and always will be... :clap:

And Frédérique has more eloquently and as accurately described me as I can.

Many others have essentially stated their personalized version of "I am just me." I agree! I have a set of traits and characteristics that the infamous "they" forgot to ask me about when assigning them to feminine or masculine categories. I've had times where I felt more particularly pretty than others but I've never looked in the mirror and said "Man I feel like a Woman today or even spectacularly feminine. Decorum of course must be observed based on the hemline height of the garment, feminine or not. :D

[docrobbysherry]

Maybe I should add something clarifying here:

I was a guy for 50 years before I began dressing.
Not a mocho guy, but I just loved doing physical guy stuff.
Not one who was pretending to act like a guy. I was/am a guy. Never thot otherwise until recently.
Not a guy who wore his mom's pantyhose on the sly.
Not a guy who ever had a thot of trying on ladies things. Or, any other fem thot or inclination, as I recall.

So, when I found I enjoyed wearing women's things late in life, it rocked me like a hit of LSD! I worked thru all the; gay, breast implants, SRS, etc. stuff on my own. I think I simply like looking female. And, at times since I began dressing I may have BELIEVED I have walked, or moved, or nuanced fem in some way in my appearance.

But, feeling or thinking female? Nah! It's just that same old dude I've lived with for 60+ years! Only now, he's a crusty, rude, crotchitty, crude, dull, absentminded, fuddyduddy, self absorbed, old man who wears dresses! Maybe there's no room in there for a fem side?

[Taylor Ray]

This thread reminds me of Jung's theories of the unconscious, which he did attribute both male and female aspects to, the so-called 'anima' and 'animus'.

While I tend to regard many psychological theories with a bit of scepticism, I do believe in the idea of integrating aspects of the unconscious with our conscious life. For me, this means the commitment to follow my crossdressing urges wherever they lead me. In allowing the expression of my urges, I feel that aspects of my self become more integrated over time. If one finds the conceptual duality of masculine/feminine to be a help in their process, well, anything that is a help is positive. But might not the conceptual lens be a filter? and can we hope that it doesn't become something so rigid that it binds us?

[Lucy_Bella]

Doc, I've been here for five years also ,even tho my tag doesn't show it ( because I was kicked outta here so many times).. What would you consider as having a female side? Do you have to .talk like one? Do girl things? I guess I don't see where you are coming from.. Do you have to act like a woman while presenting only as dressed like one and act like a male while dressed as a man? Or never act like a female even though you dress to resemble one ?

I get the just of not having a female side as in my life in general ..I hate shopping or anything that's typically stereo typed as what women do..I just act human I do not act any different no matter what I am wearing .. I am just being myself and I think that is all that should be important..

[docrobbysherry]

Doc, I've been here for five years also ,even tho my tag doesn't show it ( because I was kicked outta here so many times).. What would you consider as having a female side? Do you have to .talk like one? Do girl things? I guess I don't see where you are coming from.. Do you have to act like a woman while presenting only as dressed like one and act like a male while dressed as a man? Or never act like a female even though you dress to resemble one ?

I get the just of not having a female side as in my life in general ..I hate shopping or anything that's typically stereo typed as what women do..I just act human I do not act any different no matter what I am wearing .. I am just being myself and I think that is all that should be important..
This is an excellent, thot provoking, post, Lucy! Since I was simply a man for all those years, I've ASSUMED a female thot or feeling would be apparent to me now. But, never being a female, I'm not sure I'd recognize it!

How does one KNOW when you're having a fem thot or feeling from your fem side if you're not a female?

[Aly Cat]

For me, I just love fem clothes. I cant say that it makes me a different person though. I don't go full fem with makeup and stuff (though I do have a curiosity towards it) but for me, I just love the clothes! The closest thing I can think of to a "feminine side" that I get when I wear them is just a peace and feeling like I am being who I am. I cant say that is too feminine though because the fact of the matter is, women question themselves all the time and are in constant turmoil about appearances and whatnot. I dont have questions about how I look as a woman...I dont look anything like a woman. Id never pass and I most likely dont look pretty at all. But then again, thats not why I do it. I do it because it makes me feel good and at peace with myself. So I cannot mistake peace of mind for a womanly side. I just simply am myself...as quirky and fun as I normally am.

[Lucy_Bella]

This is an excellent, thot provoking, post, Lucy! Since I was simply a man for all those years, I've ASSUMED a female thot or feeling would be apparent to me now. But, never being a female, I'm not sure I'd recognize it!

How does one KNOW when you're having a fem thot or feeling from your fem side if you're not a female?

Doc. That's just what I've been saying..Most of us wouldn't know if we act differently specially those of us who dress alone.. Unless of course we purposely try to act being Fem out ,something I know I don't do..But by dressing and wanting to get a Fem appearance in my opinion ( mine not speaking for anyone else) is getting in touch with your Fem side..

Unless you just enjoy wearing clothing with the appearance of a guy in a dress I would understand the no Fem side.. But many here ,who grow out or use hair , make up, forms and eyelashes just to name a few.. To resemble being a female kinda gives having a female side away..Nothing wrong with what any of us do..Just because we want to appear as women doesn't mean we want to become one full time..

I just so happen to like being a male there is nothing I see in the future that will ever make me not want to be male... Some people here like being female and want to become one full time..Nothing wrong with that..If there is anything we T.G.s have in common with T.S.s is we both do have Fem sides it's what drive us to dress.

[busker]

Sherry, being a CD WITH boobs is "bad" enough but adding schizophrenia to the list is really too much. Perhaps people confuse sensitivity with femininity. I like art, music, like to cook, don't like guns and war (been there, done that), cars are a bad investment, played sports in HS and that was that, don't watch or care for sports but I do consider myself just a male who dresses in women's clothes--and most every day at that. No wigs, makeup etc.
It is difficult when one is not sensitized to female things and males are not socialized as women and no amount of "medical stuff" can replace that. I recommend for light reading "what it's like to be a bat by thomas Nagel for those that truly think they can be women. There is so much confusion about TG/TS within the science/medical community (hormones, brains, psychology). I tend to think we do what we do because of chemistry/psychology but I'm not certain that it has anything directly to do with being a woman. Hormones can be a trigger mechanism and likely are since every male does not cd or want to be a cd.

[Wildaboutheels]

The simple FACT of the whole matter is that there is no way to know other than guessing just how many guys are "just" CDers and have no need or desire to tell anyone OR actively "share their dressing activities" with anyone else.

I think one easy guess is that very few men who CD, participate at this or any other Forum.

But the thing is, MOST men are visual and CDing IS a very "visually based" activity similar to porn in many respects. I think the incidence of men who CD is probably many times higher than most people think.

In the end, the numbers and ratios of who does what or WHY they do what they do is completely irrelevant IMO.

[suzy1]

How does one KNOW when you're having a fem thought or feeling from your fem side if you're not a female?

You just do. That’s not a very good or scientific answer is it? In fact there is no answer unless you can teleport yourself [or whatever you want to call it] into a female brain and live there for a day or two.

But I stick to my answer and other transgender members here will know exactly what I meen!

Or are transgender people a sort of third gender. Food for thought?

[PaulaQ]

But I stick to my answer and other transgender members here will know exactly what I meen!


Oh yeah. The female thoughts feel different.

[Angela Campbell]

Wow, How does one know? That is a very good question. I like Mexican food. I like it a lot, but how do I know this? I just do.

[Sara Jessica]

Dear Sherry,

I have some bad news for you. Or perhaps it's good news, it all depends.

You are such a dear friend of mine. I had looked forward to meeting you based on your writings, your POV, and even your unique angle on "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" (©VM ;) ). You are a fascinating person who I have come to absolutely cherish. And what I have to say kind of segues from what you and I talked about on the way back from Vegas.

You see, I do think you have a female side. Whether it was something you were born with, something that you failed to recognize, or something that was cultivated is irrelevant, I see it in you. And may I be so bold as to speculate as to where it came from?

We talked about how "Sherry" took that leap of faith to become a social creature beyond the confines of the home or her photo shoot world of the internet. In doing so, you have seen, felt and heard all of the joys that can be had by interacting in this wonderful world of ours as a female...or at least while presenting as one. Something happened when you did this. Whether it was conscious or not, you chose NOT to come across as a total "dude". Just as Sherry is the ultimate in illusion, perhaps in stepping out you consciously tried to act the act, walk the walk so to speak. I think in doing so, it has allowed others to see your essence without the mask and relate to you as such.

Regardless of how this all came about, you should also remember that your emotions betray you. Remember DLV 2011 when we met, the final event when Alice took leave a bit early??? There wasn't a dry eye at the table, yours included...because we were all in awe of the person we had come to know and love over the course of the week. You tapped into an emotional place that I dare to say wouldn't have happened at a gathering of dudes at a model railroaders convention.

Even if you don't necessarily see it, or recognize what it feels like, don't fight it. Don't even try to force yourself to see it. Just go with the flow and be who you are. The richness of the friendships you have made over the years is a testament to you as a person regardless of whether or not you detect the female within. I can see her, with or without the mask.

With love, friendship & respect,

Sara

[busker]

but how do I know this? I just do.

This is a subjective view of the taste of Mexican food on your specific palate. We all have taste buds but we each individual tastes things differently. Some people have a keen sensitivity to odors and they are very highly paid professionals in the perfume industry. their ability to smell is quite different from the rest of us. Some people are wine tasters. For me, everything pretty much tastes like cardboard now.
Since you have never seen the world through a woman's (being a woman is a whole subjective experience that cannot be replicated) eyes or imagined the world through a womans' thoughts, you cannot possibly say "I just do".
It is the same thing as getting into a swimming pool and claiming to BE a fish. No matter how much you like swimming under water, it just won't happen.

There is no doubt you have thoughts, but you cannot say they are the SAME
thoughts that a woman would have.

[PaulaQ]

There is no doubt you have thoughts, but you cannot say they are the SAME
thoughts that a woman would have.

But of course she can say that - it is one of the symptoms of gender dysphoria / gender identity disorder. I would presume that if anyone in the scientific community gave a damn, they could do scans of our brains, to see if the neurological activity followed similar patterns to those of a biological female, at least some of the time. That might prove or disprove it, or at least shed more light on the matter.

Don't you think it's pretty profound that it's easier to pump somone who's TS full of hormones, and perform cosmetic surgeries to alter their secondary sexual characteristics, than it is to treat their minds so that they feel proper in their birth gender? Doesn't this suggest there is something fairly profound going on in their brains? How can you be sure that it is so different?

[Lucy_Bella]

But of course she can say that - it is one of the symptoms of gender dysphoria / gender identity disorder. I would presume that if anyone in the scientific community gave a damn, they could do scans of our brains, to see if the neurological activity followed similar patterns to those of a biological female, at least some of the time. That might prove or disprove it, or at least shed more light on the matter.

Don't you think it's pretty profound that it's easier to pump somone who's TS full of hormones, and perform cosmetic surgeries to alter their secondary sexual characteristics, than it is to treat their minds so that they feel proper in their birth gender? Doesn't this suggest there is something fairly profound going on in their brains? How can you be sure that it is so different?

Here ..they did ..http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html

[busker]

But of course she can say that - it is one of the symptoms of gender dysphoria / gender identity disorder. I would presume that if anyone in the scientific community gave a damn, they could do scans of our brains, to see if the neurological activity followed similar patterns to those of a biological female, at least some of the time. That might prove or disprove it, or at least shed more light on the matter.

Don't you think it's pretty profound that it's easier to pump someone who's TS full of hormones, and perform cosmetic surgeries to alter their secondary sexual characteristics, than it is to treat their minds so that they feel proper in their birth gender? Doesn't this suggest there is something fairly profound going on in their brains? How can you be sure that it is so different?

One of signs (not symptoms) of GD could be saying that a persons thoughts are that of a woman--but that cannot be proven since the person has NEVER been a woman. There is no experience to compare. If you have never been to the moon, it is difficult to compare yourself to astronaut Alan Shepard who has. You can have thoughts that you SAY are a woman's thoughts but that doesn't make them so. claiming and being are two entirely different things. Otherwise I declare that I am now the president of the US.
something profound MAY be going on in the brain but according to whose definition? That there is clearly SOMETHING going on is clear, but science/psychology has yet to determine exactly what that is. One of the problems that I see, is that there has been little long-term scientific study and those studies that have been made have a small sample group as in the study Lucy Bella has quoted. The long-term heart studies involve several hundred thousand people, and go on for 10-20 years.
Though Lucy quotes a study that PROVES there is a difference, it actually doesn't. The author says:"Guillamon isn't sure whether the four regions are at all associated with notions of gender, but Ivanka Savic-Berglund at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, thinks they might be. (bold is mine). Thiking something might be, and being scientifically proven are worlds apart.
further :" "People may experience early or late onset of transsexuality and we don't know what causes this difference." this seems to negate the entire brain scan thing.The scans were post-mortem (e.g. the people were dead) so changes in body tissue have to be accounted for and as stated "But the region is too small to scan in a living person so differences have only been picked up at post-mortem."
I'm not denying that some children see themselves as opposite of their birth sex (brain chemistry , epigenetics likely and more) , but I'm not certain how this plays out when all of a sudden a person of 40 or so all of sudden decides they are TS. There is so much experience over 40 years of so that psychology is going to play a larger role that it would for a 5 year old.

I am not an expert in this subject and have no degrees in science but I do read the literature, I have thought about this issue and just general consideration of the human mind and it's infinite adaptability warns me away from any certainty. In math there is certainty. Part of what I see is that we are able to talk ourselves into almost anything. We're beautiful, we are better looking than the woman we model ourselves after, we will live forever, etc. If a person wants to live their life dressed as a female and present themselves to the public as such, fine, but there is no need to rationalize that.

Some people say they are a woman trapped in a man's body, but how can one say that never having had any experience to compare to make that statement.?
Is it just the logical thing to say because woman is opposite of man? Isn't it better to say I have confused feelings and thoughts. Several studies I read recently suggested that the "true" TS is very small in number like 1% of all people who think they are TS and it is irreversible and you really have to hate your genitals.

I recommend reading Thomas Nagel's paper (it is only 4 pages) entitled "what i it like to be a bat" here
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-minds/201202/what-is-it-be-bat
click on the blue text philosophy paper when you get to the link.
'

[Lucy_Bella]

I totally agree with you Busker ..Here is another link that has done brain scans on TG/TS people.. Like intersex conditions, I suspect—I predict—that eventually we will learn that virtually all transsexualism has a physical, biological basis; I am already convinced that there is absolutely no psychopathology involved in being trans. These opinions are not based on any particular scientific studies, just experience, a bit of research, clinical intuition and history. http://transcister.wordpress.com/2012/07/19/scans-show-difference-in-transgender-brains/

[k lynn]

Some people say I have female side because I like to cook and clean and have things tidy not into sports like to work out I have enjoyed wearing a bra and panties since age 7 but my head is shaved no makeup or wig or forms I dont really feel feminine but the only thing masculine I like to do is ride my motorcycle I keep trying to figure myself out now for years but all I can is just enjoy being me

[suzy1]

the only thing masculine I like to do is ride my motorcycle


There are one or two female riders that might not be too happy about this Lynn.
Type ‘Jenny Tinmouth’ [The fastest women around the isle of man T.T.] into Google.
I have met her a few times at race meetings as she is a lovely girl.

But I know what you meen:)

[Raychel]

Definitly no female side here either, Just a guy that likes to dress in finer clothes.

[DaniG]

Or are transgender people a sort of third gender. Food for thought?

I've noticed that there are definitely TGs who feel like they're the opposite gender (like me) and want to be gendered as such, and associated in every way as that gender. And then there are those that feel they are neither, in the middle, or some combination of the two. These folks seem to be very offended that the English language does not have pronouns to accomodate them. I try to relate, but cannot. They might be the third gender folk you speak of.

So some of us TGs are and some are not.

[k lynn]

I don't take sides or have them..... I have one side with male and female tendencies.... attributes that blur and smoosh together..... Not quite a man in a dress.... not quite a woman in a dress suit and wing tips.....

This is also the way I feel no wing tips just boots

[noeleena]

Hi,

Well its nice to know we do have real men here after all. even if you like dressing in womens clothes, the one detail i see is how can a man think as a female if they or you are not, you see its about are you a male or a female how can you think as i do if your not like i am a female / woman.

from my side i have no idear how to think as a male you see the difference im not a male so how could i think or interact as a male i cant because im not male,

What clothes i dress in does not change how i think ' im wired as female , all though i hated male clothes, even if i wear them im not trying to be a male or be one ,it does nothing for myself,

So as i take this a bit deeper , Psychologically & Emotionally, im very different from males in all of who i am, so if thats the case how then does a male think like a female , its an act a put on a bluff or like some one who belives he is a female or like one, yet its not the case, so the fantisy will still carry on .

...noeleena...

[suzy1]

So as i take this a bit deeper , Psychologically & Emotionally, im very different from males in all of who i am, so if thats the case how then does a male think like a female , its an act a put on a bluff or like some one who belives he is a female or like one, yet its not the case, so the fantisy will still carry on .

...noeleena...


Yes Noeleena but is it so bad to fantasise?

There are some very intelligent scientists that suggest that what comes in from our five senses is not the real world only what we perceive it to be, how our brain interprets the information. So maybe we are all fantasising.

Another suggestion is that men and woman are not that different, they are both homosapiens not a separate species.
Add to that the blurring of different types of people [effeminate men/ masculine woman] and I suspect that many of us do have a genuine female side or feel what woman feel.

[Dressy Girl]

I just like wearing dresses, skirts, heels and pantyhose. No make up and wigs. I don't feel any more like a woman than I do when in my male clothes. I just love dressing in women's clothes and the way they feel when on. I don't want to be a woman, just dress like one.

[Sister Rachel]

Just to be really confusing, I feel that the CD'er side of me is mostly "male psyche", but I do most definitely have a strong feminine streak, and have had since, well, as long as I can remember, really. SOMETIMES the two overlap:heehee: