How to go about hiring a crossdresser?

[Stephanie Miller]

A lot of "how do I find a job where I can crossdress" threads have been posted. But not really a lot of "How do I advertise for a crossdresser" posts.
What brought that up for me was the two week notice from my son-in-law who is my project manager in our family construction company. I brought my daughter and son-in-law (not a CD) down from the Pacific Northwest about 5 years ago to help work the growing business. It was a choice I made at the time between dressing whenever I wanted and, for the most part, stopping my dressing with the exception of very limited times in order to have family together.
But after 5 years of enduring the heat of this place they had to make the tough choice of moving back to the area they enjoy. They have a lot of friends there too. So, even though it is tearing me apart inside - I understand. Double edged sword. They stay here and I get family and no dressing. They leave and I lose family, but get to dress again. This really hurts to the core since I'm very much a family man and would give anything for them.
So this is where the post is going..
During the times the son-in-law was out of the office all day, and not to return, I would lock the office doors and change. Very relaxing days. Now they are leaving and it will no longer be a family business, and I'm left looking to fill his position. I'm thinking it would be wonderful to hire someone who is also a crossdresser, where I don't need to be as guarded. I also enjoy employees on a friendship level so it would be fun to on girls nights out as well as fish and hunt etc.
A Gg would fit the bill, I understand, and I'm not trying to take anything away from their ability to be awesome employees- but I'm married - and will keep the SO as the only woman in my life. On the same token, I'm still a business person so the best person for the job will get it. Male or female. But if everything was equal....
So the quandary is how to word the add?
1) Construction Project Manger wanted. Must have good fashion sense.
2) Be part of a construction building team. Make-up experience a plus.
3) Office help. Flexible dress code.

Seriously though, how would you, if possible, go about finding someone without jeopardizing company integrity. I never allow political statements, pro or anti weapon positions etc. I insist on neutrality.

[Laura912]

Do you know any CDers in your area who could pass the word along?

[Lucy_Bella]

I think this is a first..I have never seen a post like this before.. To bad I already have a decent career ... Good luck on filling the empty position and sorry for the family moving away..

[Stephanie47]

You better curtail any choice of words that would indicate you are restricting employment to any one group. How would "Whites Only Wanted" or "Jews Only" or "Gays and Lesbians Only." You are sure to run afoul of EEO laws and state laws. Our state prohibits discrimination against all in employment, including gays and lesbians and transgenders, whether in fact or how they appear to another. The only thing you can do is to not exclude anyone. Yes, there are limitations where gender may be an issue, such as a "bra fitter" for a department store.

[Nikki A.]

Don't be surprised if you get some qualified people from this site. Since I know very little about construction I'm out of the running, but I know there are a few professionals on the site.

[linda allen]

Seriously, you have a business and want to hire employees based on the fact that they are crossdressers? Seriously?

If you want your business to be sucessfull, you should be looking for people who can best do the work that's required, have a good employement history, no drug use, and who seem to want to work for you.

Just like someone who works for someone else for a living, my advice is to keep your crossdressing and your job, business, etc. as far apart as possible. That is, unless your business is crossdressing related.

[Aly Cat]

Too bad we are on oposite ends of the country. Youre looking for a crosscressing employee and I'm a crossdresser looking for a new job lol. Any chance at a remote office lol?


Im actally considering starting my own business in fashion. I already have a pretty popular line of outfits I put together over the last month. Ive had over 4000 people show an interest so maybe there is something there? You ladies think you could benefit from premade outfits geared towards the crossdressing community? Essentually a fashion expert who puts together outfits for you? Not sure if there is a market for that or not. I know I would love to have that.

[artofbalance]

Hmmm... don't think I can talk the wife into moving to Arizona. As much as I do miss living there.

[AllieSF]

I think that you could start with the job profile and then the minimum requirements and then contact your local LGBT organizations and send that info to them. They would follow the law and make sure the whole LGBT group in that area would be eligible. I would also recommend that you contact Jorja on this site who apparently has some LGBT folks on her payroll and ask her how it works, experiences good and bad, etc.

One thing to consider, as we all like to think that we are sane and hard working people who have no problems with others and cause no problems for others, when in fact a lot of us are not that way at all. Also, you need to consider how out you are to the world because a disgruntled employee can cause a lot of collateral damage on the way out that door before it ever gets close to slamming them in the ass.

[Cheryl Ann Owens]

Darn! I really can't relocate and besides I'm retired. I have the resume that would tickle your eyeballs! This will be a tough one but one never knows. I wouldn't advertise the job just yet because of the issues of hiring a specific group, but use the network of clubs to get the word out. I've hired a lot of people in my old position just by word of mouth to get the best candidates.

Cheryl

[kimdl93]

I think you just did advertise to a pretty diverse pool of potential candidates!

[NicoleScott]

I would want the best person for the job and not limit my choice to TG's. You can [carefully] get into an applicant's views, and perhaps activities, during an interview. For example, you could ask if the applicant would have any qualms about working with a transgendered person. Again, carefully. As Stephanie47 said, you don't want to give the appearance of discrimination. Ironically, you'd be doing quite the opposite.
One question: it sounds like your son-in-law doesn't know about you. Would advertising openly for a TG person out you to him? Just wondering.

[Jenniferathome]

Would you also advertise and hire for skin color? For height? No. You hire the best person possible. If you choose, you can tell each perspective candidate that you are a cross dresser and may be dressing from time to time. "Would you be ok with that, candidate?"

[Stephanie Miller]

I'm surprised this thread got any attention. I was more or less just feeling sorry for myself and posted my thoughts. Thanks girls.

Laura: Started that ball rolling yesterday. I'll see how fast news travels
Lucy: Thanks for the sypathy. Yea, it hurts. They had my granddaughter while living here. She's just over two, and we're very close. :cry:
Stephanie47: Not going to restrict anyone. Best person get the job. I just have my personal wishes.
Linda: Please re-read "On the same token, I'm still a business person so the best person for the job will get it. Male or female." Can't buy new shoes without profits!
Allie: Thanks. Can't believe I didn't think of that. Standard help add would work there. No fancy wording. I would already be in the lions lair :heehee: As per disgruntled employees and damage... I'm sure it's possible but then they would be pointing the finger at themselves as well to pull that card.
Nicole: No he doesn't as far as I know (daughter does). If need, and appropriate, I will bring up the need for discretion during the first phone interview.

[Jenni Yumiko]

Seriously, you have a business and want to hire employees based on the fact that they are crossdressers? Seriously?

If you want your business to be sucessfull, you should be looking for people who can best do the work that's required, have a good employement history, no drug use, and who seem to want to work for you.

Just like someone who works for someone else for a living, my advice is to keep your crossdressing and your job, business, etc. as far apart as possible. That is, unless your business is crossdressing related.

Agree 100% this is your livelihood. IMO you will be too personal with someone in the CD realm. And you don't really want to play with your livelihood!

[Alberta_Pat]

You could indicate that the wearing of "Utilikilts" on the job would be acceptable, if that be the case. High heeled construction boots would also be acceptable, and a bit beneficial if working with ladders. :D

[Kate Simmons]

Advertise, advertise, advertise in many flexible places (including here) and use my own personal friends network of TG friends. The new fastest way to convey this type if news is to "tell a CDer"( even faster than to tell a woman).:battingeyelashes::)

[Eryn]

Simply putting "LGBT friendly business" in the ad would likely keep most of the Neanderthals away.

However, you'd be much better off with a great project manager who is tolerant of the boss' crossdressing than with a mediocre project manager who actively crossdresses. Sometimes it pays to keep business and pleasure separate.

[Rachelakld]

Sounds like a good job, something I would probably enjoy (I'm a bit OCD on quality and paperwork), just in the wrong country, and I love New Zealand

[stefan37]

I would try and find transgender support groups in your area. I am sure there are many qualified individuals that have lost jobs because they transitioned. I am interviewing a young mtf that is going to school for mechanical engineering. I am hopeful she would like to work in a field she is studying for. It would be worth it to research and ask around. Then again you could just start to dress as you would like. I have been dressing as I want and is appropriate for my industry around my employees for quite a few years. My customers and employees are used to my appearance and it has become a non issue.

[StephiefromSyr]

advertise in frock magazine http://frockmagazine.com/frock/

[Danielle_cder]

I hate my job now, have been around comercial and residential construction well...for all of my life. can i apply?

[Rogina B]

Seriously, you have a business and want to hire employees based on the fact that they are crossdressers? Seriously?

If you want your business to be sucessfull, you should be looking for people who can best do the work that's required, have a good employement history, no drug use, and who seem to want to work for you.

Stephanie is a very successful builder and as serious as a heart attack! And she is not the first one of us that has thought this way. I,for instance,have a great circle of T minded friends in the Boston area.We play well together and our talents range from engineering to law to the building trades.I am the "marine engineer" in the group,but we have others in the marine field as well.As I said,we are smart people,respectful of the others[hence play well together] and we have discussed combining talents on a job. When a T is out and comfortable being so,it opens up a whole new world. Way to think Stephanie!

[Aly Cat]

I would try and find transgender support groups in your area. I am sure there are many qualified individuals that have lost jobs because they transitioned.

Believe it or not, I was reading an article from ABC news that stated that upwards towards 60% of transgendered people who have made the transition are either jobless or make under $10,000 per year. To me, that is maddening. Thats a lot of jobless people whom a lot are probably qualified for good jobs. Maybe someone like you is just who some of them need to get them back on their feet.

[mikiSJ]

Wow, what a missed opportunity!

30+ years as a real estate development/construction executive with a least a decent idea of how to dress, don't really mind the heat and love the desert!!!

Darn! Can't leave the family I already have in San Jose.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Stephanie, Arizona, A nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.

[Rogina B]

Agree 100% this is your livelihood. IMO you will be too personal with someone in the CD realm. And you don't really want to play with your livelihood!
Most T minded people are smart and respectful as has been my experience.I see you are from the Chicago area.Perhaps you should sit in at the CGS meetings and dinners as well as the TRIESS meetups. There are great,talented people there,and you will realize that having "a knowing inner circle" is a real possibility and knocks the "anxiety "out of it.That is what Stephanie was getting at...when there is no hiding from the unknowing,then the work atmosphere could lighten up a bit.

[Vickie_CDTV]

If you have a local transgender community where you live, get to know some folks there. As you meet folks in the trans community you can let people know there is a job available. It is better to meet folks and offer a job than having to advertise for an employee, you can get to know them personally first, and keep prying eyes out of your business. As others have said, if you publish an ad requesting a crossdresser you could have your business "shaken down" (or ruined) by the EEOC or some other governmental agency.

[Brynna M]

In all seriousness I think you want to slant your thinking toward your future employee being accepting rather than actively crossdressing. There is nothing wrong or illegal about choosing a qualified candidate who also fits the office "culture" On a different note if you expect this person to keep things a secret that has disaster written all over it no matter if the are accepting or a crossdresser themselves.

[Ceri Anne]

I'd apply in a heartbeat Stephanie if it was in Kansas City. I've got the experience, know how, and the heels :)

[Chickhe]

Maybe you are doing what you need to do...get the word out and maybe someone will come to you. As for discrimination, I think you can hire a specific minority over others if that group is under represented...its only fair.

[Kalista Jameson]

I would probably just advertise the position and state the workplace is LGBT friendly. When someone calls about the position, let them know you are a cd and if they are ok with it to come in and continue the interview process if so. I'd do the interview crossdressed so you can gauge their comfort levels and see if they are a good match.

Cheers,

Kalista

[Beverley Sims]

Without jeopardizing company integrity, I would advertise for an experienced person in the trade that I needed.
I would be unlikely to hire someone heavily tattooed, many body piercings, unwashed, un a lot of other things, and that person should be able to fill out forms of the written kind.
Good communication skills and good interaction with customers.
It they were transgendered or an alternative lifestyler of some other type they would be acceptable, as long as they did not hold extreme views that they would immediately argue for. They should accept others views.

If I needed a cross dresser per se.
I would look in the yellow pages under X dressers and hire one from one of those casual equipment hire places.
When she is unsatisfactory, I can return her.

[ashleymasters]

I think networking and seeking out someone would work better than trying to attract applicants. Maybe hit cd friendly spots and meet and greet

[Sharon B.]

Building Trades or Highway Construction?

[NicoleScott]

Some interview question suggestions:
1) when would you use the following type of nails: 16d bright common, 12d coated, 6d finish, French tip.
2) what is meant by "CD coming out of the closet"? answer: I would never use that grade of plywood in a closet. It need to come out.

[Allison Chaynes]

There needs to be a CD version of LinkedIn or something where we can all network professionally :)

[Ashlyn Brooke]

Hi Stephanie, where exactly do I sign? Seriously, if you are serious, you may have just answered my prayers... Exactly where are you located and what type of construction? I currently live in Texas, my divorce will be final in July, I dress full-time at home and on days off. I'm currently in health care and actually go to work with mild makeup on. I have construction experience dating back to high school from oil field related to framing and remodeling houses but went and got a business degree and later a nursing license. I have owned my own company and now my life has come to a skreeching halt losing everyone close to me. I have a mother, step-father, 2 sisters and a brother that live in Northern CA that I see only once every few years and I would dearly love to be closer to them. I am mid 40's, white, good health and condition, intelligent, hard-working and responsible for ME at this point in my life. I would love to hear from you, email, IM, etc. I know exactly how you feel, I was in the closet when kids and wife were home, now I'm alone and all I want is the femme look. I love the outdoors, cycling, hunting, water, and want to work with someone that I can associate with not always business. Hope to hear from you. Ashlyn

[Jilmac]

Most LGBT chapters publish a monthly newsletter. If you have one in your community you might want to try running an ad there and see where it goes. Also if you publish a newspaper or on line ad, I would go with your third choice.

[CindyT]

I just visited Az for the first time and loved it out there! Too bad I'm in the electrical field.... but I am a good learner!
Seriously though, I think your ad looks good!!!!

[rachael.davis]

You could specify that your firm is GLBT friendly in any ads, or while dealing with recruiters

[Megan_Renee]

I don't think that you put it in the job advert, but you could probably come up with a few questions to at least get someone who wouldn't care, and wouldn't make it an issue.

"In this line of work, we come across a lot of different types of people. What would you do if you went to a job site and the client was a man dressed in a skirt?"

With that simple question, and your woman's intuition, you should find someone who would fit your bill! :-)

[flatlander_48]

Some of the national LGBT organizations have job databases. Here's one:

http://outandequal.org/lgbtcareerlink

[Stephanie Miller]

First I want to appoligize for abandoning my own thread. As you can imagine, I have been overwelmed with family and work decisions. And the web just had to take back seat. Probably be that way for a bit.
I have read everyones advice and I really appreciate it. There's lots that I didn't think of. Nobody really does think of this stuff till it hits your plate I guess. (Flatlander, Didn't know about that link. I'll look into it. Thx.) I don't want anyone to think I am going to sacrafice my company and take the focus off of construction and making money just so I can open a "gender diversity training camp". I understand that there is a time and place for gender openness as society gains acceptance. Male, female, "other"... when the tire meets the road it will be the person that has what I'm looking for that fits the job that I will talk to. IF I don't decide to sell the whole place and move on. I just don't know at this point.
All I do know is that I have a whole lot of support here that I appreciate. Thx

[Sallee]

To bad your so far away I am a former construction project manager civil engineer and fit the other requirements to. ACtually I am not that a far away San Diego but I like being retired

[AllieSF]

Sallee, I am in the same boat and really do like my, what to do today lifestyle. Sometimes doing nothing is a lot of fun. I would however love to get some consulting gigs for a couple or few weeks at a time. I always enjoyed the industry. My dad was a home builder.

[flatlander_48]

There is a myth that keeps floating around and it needs exposing. Modern Society is NOT a meritocracy, yet we cling mercilessly to this notion of the Best and Brightest. B/S. From my nearly 41 years in industry, I've run across some of the Best and Brightest with whom you would NOT want to be in the same room. Oft times their social skills are non-existent and they possess about as much charisma as last week's T++D. You wouldn't want them anywhere near a well-functioning team for fear of infection.

Yes, you do want well-qualified people, but you shouldn't have to sacifice humanity and understanding for the world as it is. You shouldn't have to sacrifice humor and compassion. In short, I want someone who knows about LIFE.

Case in point:
Several years ago, I went to a job fair to recruit young engineers who had, or where just about to graduate. I talked to a guy who was about to graduate, but he was fairly old; 26 or 27 I think. Also, his grade average wasn't that high; maybe 2.7 or so out of 4.0. As I talked to him, I found out what his story was. He had gone to a vocational high school and had entered an apprentice auto mechanic's program. Eventually he became a mechanic at a car dealership. He got married and had one kid, as I remember. However, he realized that if he was ever going to get ahead, he needed to go gack to school. After some remedial work, he enrolled in a mechanical engineering program at a pretty good school in his home town. However, he continued to work fulltime at the dealership.

The thing that impressed me that here was a guy who knew hard work, long hours, setting tough goals and dedication. Sounds like a guy I'd want on my team. Well, the upshot was that our HR folks got the idea that every candidate had to have at least a 3.0 in order to invite them for an on-site interview. To my mind, this is what happens when you value artificial metrics over substance. See, inclusion is about considering the whole person, thinking about what good qualities they bring and not allowing their differences to count as negatives. I believe we are at our best when we allow ourselves to consider the whole person.

[5150 Girl]

To bad you're not in my part of Ohio, I'd snap it up in a second! I know a little bit about construction, and for the record, I'd think nothing of showing up on site in a pretty dress and heels, and still not be afraid to swing an occasional hammer.

However,,, About your original question... "Our company prides it's self on being open to diversity. Applicants must be tolerant of alternative lifestyles."

[Vickie_CDTV]

Speaking as one of those engineer-type people who is often misunderstood and in general rubs some people the wrong way... please remember that people who are in technical fields are more likely to be introverted and may not be as comfortable with other people as the general population; I was drawn to a technical career because I was socially awkward and always felt more comfortable with machines than people. Those who are especially intelligent are also more likely to suffer from depression and other forms of mental illness than the general population.

Sadly, as for merit, we ceased being a culture that celebrates and rewards merit a long, long time ago.

[flatlander_48]

I understand what you say completely. BSME 1972, so I'm in my 41st year in the profession. I'm one of the unusual ones as my Meyers-Briggs Introvert/Extrovert score turns out almost dead center.

Anyway, the problem isn't introversion, per se. The problem is when there is a component of arrogance in the mix. Those people are very difficult to work with and mold into a team. Even though the employment of a given person may be a bit sub-optimal, you might get more accomplished as the arrogant person will be a turn-off for everyone he or she comes in contact with.

There's a saying that goes something like this: "It's amazing how much you can accomplish when you don't worry about who gets the credit.". Hard to do in the company of arrogance.

[MisterEgurl]

Seeing how most employers deliberately constrain their hiring prospects by choosing very selective and specific venues to place job ads, I don't see why you couldn't do the same. Just advertise for the job with local LGBT organizations, on sites like this (is there, by any chance a Help Wanted Forum on this site? (hint)), or by word of mouth through any crossdressing contacts you may have. I find that 90% of the time smaller companies have the best luck finding the best employees by going through word of mouth and (EEEK!) networking. Sure, you'd love to have the greatest, best, doctorate educated, management ninja Forbes couldn't interview because they couldn't find him/her, but you also want someone who will mesh with the company culture and it sounds to me like the company culture is crossdressing friendly.

If I had any construction experience beyond home improvement work and tile laying, I'd be thrilled to relocate to AZ.

And I think it's time to open a Help Wanted forum here.

[MisterEgurl]

There needs to be a CD version of LinkedIn or something where we can all network professionally :)

I detect a demand. Whar is the supply?

[Rileyaz]

The thing that impressed me that here was a guy who knew hard work, long hours, setting tough goals and dedication. Sounds like a guy I'd want on my team. Well, the upshot was that our HR folks got the idea that every candidate had to have at least a 3.0 in order to invite them for an on-site interview. To my mind, this is what happens when you value artificial metrics over substance. See, inclusion is about considering the whole person, thinking about what good qualities they bring and not allowing their differences to count as negatives. I believe we are at our best when we allow ourselves to consider the whole person.

Remember, A students teach; B students work for C students.

[Dianne S]

Why do you want to hire a crossdresser? Are you the company owner? You can interview anyone you like and just say "By the way, I crossdress around the office. I hope that's not a problem for you."

If someone turns down the job because of that, you find someone else.

[kimdl93]

Honestly, I think its a great idea. A key thing in any business is good chemistry between the employees and a good rapport with management. Of course there may be some bites here, but there's a much larger pool. I don't personally believe there is an ideal candidate for any job...in fact, some of the best people may begin rather ill-prepared in terms of experience, but grow into their jobs.

I've found that bringing in a temp is a good way to get to know an individual's work ethic, personality and abilities. I recently kept one as a permanent employee and let another go when she proved to be a poor fit.

[tonidouglas]

wonder why the site doesn't have a jobs forum? sorry if I sound like a repeat didn't have time to read all the psots

[ReineD]

What about

4. I am an equal opportunity employer. All genders including transgender, are welcome to apply.

I'll bet my bottom dollar that every single CD or TS who reads your ad and who has experience in the construction business will apply. :)

[tonidouglas]

Wow I so wish had your frame of mind


There is a myth that keeps floating around and it needs exposing. Modern Society is NOT a meritocracy, yet we cling mercilessly to this notion of the Best and Brightest. B/S. From my nearly 41 years in industry, I've run across some of the Best and Brightest with whom you would NOT want to be in the same room. Oft times their social skills are non-existent and they possess about as much charisma as last week's T++D. You wouldn't want them anywhere near a well-functioning team for fear of infection.

Yes, you do want well-qualified people, but you shouldn't have to sacifice humanity and understanding for the world as it is. You shouldn't have to sacrifice humor and compassion. In short, I want someone who knows about LIFE.

Case in point:
Several years ago, I went to a job fair to recruit young engineers who had, or where just about to graduate. I talked to a guy who was about to graduate, but he was fairly old; 26 or 27 I think. Also, his grade average wasn't that high; maybe 2.7 or so out of 4.0. As I talked to him, I found out what his story was. He had gone to a vocational high school and had entered an apprentice auto mechanic's program. Eventually he became a mechanic at a car dealership. He got married and had one kid, as I remember. However, he realized that if he was ever going to get ahead, he needed to go gack to school. After some remedial work, he enrolled in a mechanical engineering program at a pretty good school in his home town. However, he continued to work fulltime at the dealership.

The thing that impressed me that here was a guy who knew hard work, long hours, setting tough goals and dedication. Sounds like a guy I'd want on my team. Well, the upshot was that our HR folks got the idea that every candidate had to have at least a 3.0 in order to invite them for an on-site interview. To my mind, this is what happens when you value artificial metrics over substance. See, inclusion is about considering the whole person, thinking about what good qualities they bring and not allowing their differences to count as negatives. I believe we are at our best when we allow ourselves to consider the whole person.

[Anacita]

Agree completely.

Crossdressing is just way too narrow a criterion.

Ana

[Leah Lynn]

Saw an ad for a pilot once that said, "LGBT encouraged to apply."

Leah

[flatlander_48]

Given that we are talking about a small business here, often it is the situation where everybody has to do everything. Since you don't have a ton of people, the people you have must be fairly versatile. I doubt that the implication was that crossdressing would assume major importance in the selection criteria. At the end of the day, what you need doing still needs to get done.

The "best and brightest" thing is pure B/S. If you were going to throw someone in a lab by themselves, then it could work. However, in the sense of putting teams together, you don't want a team of people like that. What you want is a group that complements one another, can see the larger picture and don't have issues interacting with other humans. Remember that many technical people tend towards introversion. That isn't a bad thing; it's just the way it is. However, it's something to think about and figure out how to work with it.

[giuseppina]

There is a myth that keeps floating around and it needs exposing. Modern Society is NOT a meritocracy, yet we cling mercilessly to this notion of the Best and Brightest. B/S. From my nearly 41 years in industry, I've run across some of the Best and Brightest with whom you would NOT want to be in the same room. Oft times their social skills are non-existent and they possess about as much charisma as last week's T++D. You wouldn't want them anywhere near a well-functioning team for fear of infection.

Yes, you do want well-qualified people, but you shouldn't have to sacifice humanity and understanding for the world as it is. You shouldn't have to sacrifice humor and compassion. In short, I want someone who knows about LIFE.

Case in point:
Several years ago, I went to a job fair to recruit young engineers who had, or where just about to graduate. I talked to a guy who was about to graduate, but he was fairly old; 26 or 27 I think. Also, his grade average wasn't that high; maybe 2.7 or so out of 4.0. As I talked to him, I found out what his story was. He had gone to a vocational high school and had entered an apprentice auto mechanic's program. Eventually he became a mechanic at a car dealership. He got married and had one kid, as I remember. However, he realized that if he was ever going to get ahead, he needed to go gack to school. After some remedial work, he enrolled in a mechanical engineering program at a pretty good school in his home town. However, he continued to work fulltime at the dealership.

The thing that impressed me that here was a guy who knew hard work, long hours, setting tough goals and dedication. Sounds like a guy I'd want on my team. Well, the upshot was that our HR folks got the idea that every candidate had to have at least a 3.0 in order to invite them for an on-site interview. To my mind, this is what happens when you value artificial metrics over substance. See, inclusion is about considering the whole person, thinking about what good qualities they bring and not allowing their differences to count as negatives. I believe we are at our best when we allow ourselves to consider the whole person.

Hello Flatlander,

This individual may have been a good candidate, and he may not. Allow me some perspective from someone who went through a fully accredited engineering school at approximately the same time as your candidate graduated. By fully accredited, in Canada, that means the candidate does not need any confirmatory technical examinations before licensure as a professional engineer. S/he only needs the required acceptable work (non-engineering jobs don't count) experience and completion of the professional practice examination, which is about law as it applies to the engineering profession and professional ethics. My field is electrical/electronics engineering, but I doubt there is much difference with mechanical engineering.

Lectures and labs are about 27-30 hours per week. Minimum study time including assignments, lab reports, and examination preparation doubles that. A realistic multiple is 1.5 to 2 times. We're up to about 70-80 hours weekly on the books. A full time job is normally 40 hours a week. A conscientious father in his situation might spend 10 hours a week with his child. Personal care including meals is around 7 hours a week. There are only 168 hours in a week, so he doesn't have time for more than about 4 hours per night for sleep.

At best, this individual has a work-study-life balance problem and is heading for burn-out. It's also possible HR staff thought the story doesn't ring true.

Where I went to school, almost all students spending more than a few hours a week on a part time job were kicked out for failing to meet minimum academic standards.

[Michelle.M]

Simply putting "LGBT friendly business" in the ad would likely keep most of the Neanderthals away.

Probably. Somewhere in the ad do the standard diversity line "Acme Construction is an equal opportunity workplace and does not discriminate due to religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender or gender presentation."

That last part should let anyone who dresses know that this would be a good job possibility.

[flatlander_48]

At best, this individual has a work-study-life balance problem and is heading for burn-out. It's also possible HR staff thought the story doesn't ring true.

Where I went to school, almost all students spending more than a few hours a week on a part time job were kicked out for failing to meet minimum academic standards.

No, different situation. I don't think he was full time that often. He was in his late 20's when he graduated, so I'm guessing it took him 6 or 7 years (4 year program). When I said 26 or 27, that probably wasn't right. He was MUCH older than the majority of the students. Regarding HR, it was their standing policy at that point that we not recruit anyone with less than a 3.0 of 4.0. We never offered his name as we knew it would be rejected.

Also, I worked with some guys who started college at around 40. It probably took them the better part of 10 years, but they survived it.

And by the way, my 41 years have been spent as a mechanical engineer, engineering supervisor, computer programmer, simulation analyst and quality assurance analyst and includes a PE license in my home state.

[giuseppina]

The mode of engineering education here is different. I am not aware of any accredited part time bachelor's programs in engineering in Ontario, and there may not be any in Canada. At least one program limits the time available to ten academic terms (four months each) for an eight term degree. That is, students who withdraw for more than one year or are on academic probation for more than one year are ineligible to continue. In that program, even students who take relevant courses during work terms are still required to maintain a full academic course load when on campus.

Only advanced degree programs in engineering are available here as part time, and they are disappearing due to funding cuts if they haven't already.

I agree with your view that marks don't tell the whole story. Conscientious plodders may not get the best marks, but they often have a better sense of what is practical and what their limitations are.

I was thirteen years older than most of my engineering classmates. There were a few, like me, that had mathematics or science degrees before starting engineering.

[flatlander_48]

One point: usually the programs are not specified as full time of part time. You take courses as you have time available. The problem is that often courses in a sequence are offered once a year. Sometimes you have to really do some dancing in order to not have that have a major effect on your progress. However, these days there are some programs that are structured for part-time students, but full-time employees. They put together schedules to minimize those out of sequence problems.

[Nicole Erin]

Good ideas about wording the anti-discrimination part.

Next thing though is - does the job pay decent compensation?
If it offers good pay and applicants would need decent qualifications then needing a GLBT person might be hard to find.
However, if it's some less than $10 an hour job, good luck finding someone who even speaks English.