Opposite of a normal HRT type question...

[JessGold]

Long Time Lurker, first time (in a long while) poster :)

Sooo... I signed up here in December of 2011 and admitted to my wife I was trans in January of 2012. Here it is May of 2013, and my life, depression and all, looks strikingly similar to the life I had Christmas of 2011. Why? Well, for starters, I continue to do the same mental gymnastics necessary to quash any though of acting on my most basic needs (i.e. transition).

With that said, I have a gender therapist and have spoken with him half a dozen times. And, he'd be willing to write me a recommendation for HRT when I am ready. The problem is, I keep finding reasons to avoid taking any steps toward being more authentic...

Etc... Etc... Blah, blah blah... More noise...

On to my point. I'm seriously considering taking HRT, but am NOT ready to be seen by others as female, though effeminate wouldn't be so bad :heehee:.

While I am married, I'm not concerned with the sexual side effects, or anything of that nature. What I'm really concerned about, is whether I can take HRT for 6 months, a year, or as long as necessary in order to work through my internal demons and finally make a concrete decision how to proceed, whatever that may be.

Many of you may think this is backward logic, and it may just be, but looking at guy me, with guy job, and typical guy family, makes it exceedingly difficult to envision the 180 my life would/will take following transition.

I'm getting nowhere with the path I've taken to date. That part is obvious. All the writing I've done. All the therapy and anti-depressants I've endured. All the late night musings with my wife. And I've yet to make a decision in the gender binary. To male, or to female, that is the question. I suspect I'm not alone (in being wrong) that ole reliable is to do nothing, but that the results are the same, depressing. So I'm wondering, would committing to no gender, but experimenting with HRT be plausible?

I mean, I do have the go ahead to start HRT, but not not the courage to transition full time. So the real question is, can I try HRT and still present in guy mode temporarily, or permanently?? Would 3-6 months, a year, or more give me some insight while allowing me to make the life decisions that follow?
I mean, is it realistic to take hormones and only have plans to present as a boy to others? Is it realistic to take hormones and use them as a first step toward deciding the path you'll take in the future?

I am trans, and that is not in question. But, I worry if I continue to approach being trans, the way I have for the past 30 years, for the next 30 years, I'll have ruined my life, AND the lives of those I care most about. On the flip side, I worry if I decide to transition, I'll ruin everything quicker...

[Megan Thomas]

I'd love to post a longer reply but I'm having to rush here, but in a nutshell HRT won't be for you if you want to present to others as a male. I found the first 3 months on HRT produced quite startling physical and mental changes, which I understand are irreversible past the 6 month stage. The hardest thing for me was the change in emotional control which left me feeling like my emotions were a rollercoaster ride for 4-6 weeks until they settled down. I'm now 18 months into HRT and feel wonderful. There was a physician in the UK who used to use HRT as a way to help diagnose patients with gender dysphoria but these days the gender clinics tend to wait for 2 psych evaluations anything up to a year apart before prescribing them. Most GP's won't prescribe them without a recommendation from a gender specialist.

Hope this helps.

[Sandra1746]

While your question may be unusual it is by no means incorrect. If you examine the literature on the gender spectrum you will see that it is generally regarded, by most professionals, as a continuum and not a binary. The Benjamin Scale, now quite old, illustrates this nicely.

In my experience with HRT I think you can undergo what I refer to as "transition lite" and still gain the benefits of HRT. A low-dose Estradiol patch is an option you may wish to consider. The effects are slight at first but are significant. You can expect some reduction of sexual desire and performance but you may also find a calmness and gradual sense of whether HRT is right for you or not. The other benefit is that the effects are usually reversible if you stop the HRT. Continuing HRT for an extended time with increased dosage will produce relatively-permanent changes however so just remember that. Everyone responds differently so getting more specific is difficult.

As for being seen as "more female", well that is going to depend more on your mannerisms and clothing than the low-dose Estradiol. If you also adopt fem clothing and grooming styles people will notice. For me, my pierced ears and shoulder-length hair are WAY more prominent than the small breast growth I have experienced (I am on a higher dose of Estradiol). So, this is something you could do with, or without HRT.

As for my emotions, they settled down immediately after I started HRT, no roller-coaster ride for me. And my wife agrees with this too. Again, everyone is different but starting on a low dose is likely key here.

HRT is a big decision but if you are reasonably confident that you want to try it AND your doctor is there to monitor your reaction and progress it MAY answer your questions. It is however no "magic potion" and if other "demons" exist you may have to deal with them as well.

Good luck with whatever decision you make,
Sandra1746

[Kaitlyn Michele]

the BOTTOM LINE for me is that the idea of taking HRT, not commiting and being better able to decide later is bs... you'll only see your problem more clearly and depending on your personality become even more unhappy
you'll be more unhappy because you'll know even more that you need to transition, but taking HRT doesnt do anything about giving you the courage to do it...a year from now you'll be just as unhappy, just as afraid, and have the new problem of what to do about the HRT program...should i continue? am i permenantly sterile? do people know? it will suck..

i'm not against you taking any steps to mitigate gender dysphoria, even for a period of time... its your body...and people take HRT to just try to feel better...but it doesnt help decide anything..and the effects of HRT are wildly unpredicatable both emotionally and physically...HRT could help to calm you down or it could wind you up...it could make you more feminine or it could just make you get painful erections, painful breastbuds and make you cry all the time...

your idea about not being seen as female but wanting to be more effeminate might be logical, but it highlights that you are hoping to have control over an uncontrollable thing...

i'm glad your in therapy...your challenge is to have the courage to decide
...in the near term you are deciding to not transition, but as you are experiencing you can't really fight gender dysphoria...you can only hope it doesnt get worse...taking HRT isn't going to change except for the short term..


there are people here that are taking HRT now and not transitioning, i hope they come and tell you what they are going through, and what their goals were relative to their experience...

+++++++

sandra i think your answer is good if you are not transsexual...thats really important...some people are really not ts, but feel bigendered...thats not what jess said...perhaps she needs to explore that but for now i'm taking her at her word...if ts, its a false hope
because what your are describing is not really applicable to a person that is transsexual.
....a person that is transsexual is not really invested in a gender continuim, it doesnt ultimately do anything for us....we are about "being" and thats a total and forever thing...

[mary something]

thanks for posting this Jess, my first endo apt is in July, so I'm in hurry up and wait mode myself. I can understand the uncertainties that you feel because I've been there myself in the past. I found it really helpfull to just take my time and keep going to therapy when I was where you are at now. Right now I'm at peace with my decision to start hrt this summer and fully transition into the female role over time. I hope you find the path that works for you also. It seems to me (at this very early juncture in my transition) that this is a decision that your heart has to make.

[drag n fly]

Hi Jess...It's nice to hear that you're so concerned for your family and that transitioning may hurt your relationships...
I'm a 67 year old TG (TS?) and have been on a fairly light HRT regimen for about 14 months now..I have small sagging (old lady) breasts ,decreased libido (great!) and smaller gentialia as a result...All of which I am soo happy about...The concern you have for transition is something I have given thought to..I'm getting old, and realize that maybe the best thing would be to continue on my present path..(I am not "out" in appearance, I dress quite vaquely...Mostly women's clothing with a less than fem quality..)
I've read on the online stuff about Thailand, etc...and that's out of the question, but I have given fairly serious thought to an orchiectomy..There's a doctor in Detroit who does them, almost no questions asked..at a reasonable price..What I'm getting at is that I'm conducting my lfe on a haphazard, day to day, let's see what happens, basis...I kind of do it..and then face the consequences..If I gave great thoguth to what I'm doing, I'd probably never get anywhere..but then my age might be a factor here...I'm finally having fun...Be well...Jackie

[Marleena]

Jess, I really like Kaitlyn's post, she covers most of it. I have a couple of TS women in my group that are leading dual lives and kept their families together. They are both professional people that work as men and they went the only HRT route. But they are the exception, not the rule. It's going to depend on the level of your GD and what you are prepared to give up.

Only you can decide what's best for you so you better research all of this and continue to work with your gender therapist. This is like walking through a minefield.

[celeste26]

There are other things you can do to further your feminine image like electrolysis, that will be needed eventually anyway. Frankly the pain involved in electrolysis is such that it just might focus your mind on what path you really want. It is the type of thing that will not be a hindrance if you choose not to go to a full transition, since it only works on your beard and a clean shaven face is not such a bad thing for the guys either. It will make you look younger too.

Growing breasts is not a 3-6 month process, it takes far longer than that. GG's take 4-6 years to fully develop and that is without the "T" to interfere. It is the T blockers that will eventually be the thing that ends the male parts usefulness and everyone has their own stopping point when it comes to that. Very hard to predict some universal end point that is true for everyone. It also depends upon where you start on that since there is tremendous variation from one person to the other. Genetic factors also play a part, some males are far more resistant to the T blockers than others so it takes longer for them and theoretically they could stop and reverse it long after others have gone over the limit.

So Jess it is not some cut and dried issue with some mathematical formula to figure out and go no further.

[melissaK]

Sweetie, I am going to accept at face value that you are indeed TS. If you are TS, and you don't want to transition it's going to be a hard way to live. GD will not go away, you can knock it down for a while, but it'll be back. Eventually it will be a monkey on your back you deal with every second of every day.

I am like Marleena's professional men who did HRT to try to keep GD at bay, and keep their family and income in tact. I made it 20 years - barely, and it wasn't pretty.

21 years ago I talked with my counselor about coping strategies. I used over scheduling as a major tactic. It kept me too tired to feel GD, or feel much of anything really. I worked too much, and at home mixed in a half dozen hobbies to stay over scheduled there too. I did some light cross dressing. I under dressed.

I was only seeing my counselor maybe 2x a year and in one of the intervals my GD became overwhelming - nothing worked. ANXIETY I FELT WAS ALL I COULD THINK ABOUT. The fear of how I was going to lose everything in my life if I dared transition was all I focused on. I was a SUICIDE RISK, I just wanted the pain I felt to stop. I didn't get into counseling soon enough - she was on vacation and couldn't get me in and I just came apart. I pretty much lost myself in a severe dissociative personality event. . . .

I hung on, and started HRT. HRT pissed off my wife - you eventually grow breasts, a huge turn off for my wife, and it decreases your sexual ability substantially, again a fact not appreciated by my wife. It took me years of counseling and a hugely patient wife to recover my mental health. Somehow I stayed employed and married the whole time.

But, GD never went away and my HRT dosages climbed to full transition dosages. I grew breasts and lost significant sexual performance ability. This severely hurt my marriage.

Still, GD didn't go away. Last year about this time it got bad again. I knew better than press my luck and I began dealing with some final issues tied to having the courage and self acceptance, and independence from my wife and friends to know I could stand up alone and transition, and the courage to be myself. I got back in counselling. This year in January I decided I was coming out to family and a few close friends in January, and that I had to pursue transition.

My life as I knew it is over, and my life is entering a new chapter. And F*** Sweetie, I am so much happier.

I saw Martina Navratilova talk about the BB player who came out as gay, and she gave a great interview saying "He's going to be happier" and "Now some tall skinny kid is NOT going to commit suicide because he's going to know that he too can come out." Coming out gay, or coming out TS, there are profound similarities. And its about being "you." Bad Tranny has a recent thread I agree with where she says "there's no other benefit but that you get to be you." But Sweetie, it's a heck of good benefit.

So, all your questions about if it is possible to slow pedal transition? - yes, sort of. But IMHO if you are TS, your inner self will not let you rest short of transition, and you will pay a substantial price for the delaying of it.

I, unlike you, I have the advantage of having lived the route of suppression and I can now look back and say whether I'd do it that way again. Like all of life, it's mixed. I did raise kids I love, I did get them through college, I did create a tightly knit blended family out of the chaos of prior marriages. But f*** it was painful. I skirted suicide. I skirted being institutionalized in a mental health facility. And I wouldn't do it that way again.

You however are NOT me. You are NOT in the same closet I put myself in. You are not married to the same wife. You are not in the same career. You are not in the same town. You don't have my set of fears. Its 2013 when you are making your decisions, not 1992, and the world is different.

So, its YOUR CALL.

[LeaP]

I'm nine months into HRT and went ahead without a decision to transition. That said, I was (and am) not opposed to transition. And while I have my fears concerning transition, I don't think I would have gone ahead without the willingness to transition - fear or no. Hormones ARE a part of transition. You have to be prepared to accept (likely) permanent changes as part of taking them, at least after 6-12 months.

Kaitlyn's response is excellent. One thing I would echo is that while HRT can quiet things, it can also make things worse. There is no predicting results, physically or psychologically.

Sandra, with time and reading, I read far less of the concept of continuum into observations like Benjamin's. While there are some manifestations, such as intensity, that are common to a number of conditions, the conditions, including the identities and their treatment, are ultimately different. Marleena, I'm not so sure that non-transitioners on HRT are an exception, though that depends on the population - perhaps you were referring to your group(?). I suspect that out of the population of the transitioned plus those on HRT alone, there are more of the latter.

[JessGold]

the BOTTOM LINE for me is that the idea of taking HRT, not commiting and being better able to decide later is bs... you'll only see your problem more clearly and depending on your personality become even more unhappy
you'll be more unhappy because you'll know even more that you need to transition, but taking HRT doesnt do anything about giving you the courage to do it...a year from now you'll be just as unhappy, just as afraid, and have the new problem of what to do about the HRT program...should i continue? am i permenantly sterile? do people know? it will suck...

Great post Kaitlyn and Thankyou. Honestly, I would welcome a drastic change or external force that pushed me to transition fully. Though, I won't be holding my breath. I'd also welcome a stellar shift in my consciousness that set me at ease with being male on the outside with a soft tender filling inside.

But to your other point, I'm not approaching the thought of HRT as a way of being non-committal. In fact it is quite the opposite. I'm just trying to figure out what I can/should/need to, do that is best for me... AND mine.
But, I hear your point about the wildly unpredictable changes people see on HRT. It may be that taking hormones would make it necessary to transition fully or to stop because the results are too drastic. It might be that I feel I have to go all the way after I got the ball rolling. It may be, that I make peace with boy me and stop entirely.



thanks for posting this Jess, my first endo apt is in July, so I'm in hurry up and wait mode myself. I can understand the uncertainties that you feel because I've been there myself in the past. I found it really helpfull to just take my time and keep going to therapy when I was where you are at now. Right now I'm at peace with my decision to start hrt this summer and fully transition into the female role over time. I hope you find the path that works for you also. It seems to me (at this very early juncture in my transition) that this is a decision that your heart has to make.

Thanks for your kind words. And you're almost certainly right that it is a decision of the heart. But, as an engineer, and admittedly a little OCD, its nearly impossible for me to act on my "desires" without properly analyzing the potential outcomes.



Jess, I really like Kaitlyn's post, she covers most of it. I have a couple of TS women in my group that are leading dual lives and kept their families together. They are both professional people that work as men and they went the only HRT route. But they are the exception, not the rule. It's going to depend on the level of your GD and what you are prepared to give up.

Only you can decide what's best for you so you better research all of this and continue to work with your gender therapist. This is like walking through a minefield.

I actually went to a group in my area last month and met two ladies who are still incognito at work. Both are professionals and both seemed perfectly happy with their decisions. It was one thing that gave me the inspiration to consider this path.

I'm not taking this lightly, but I'm thinking through the ways I can find balance. I've hidden my true nature from others my entire life, and have built a persona I don't hate, but is not genuine either.

My GT once asked me if I won the Lotto, would I transition? The answer was a thousand times yes. He also asked me if I knew, with certainty, that transition would be GOOD for my family, would I do it? Again the answer was a thousand times yes.

But, those are only hypotheticals. I do have a family, do not have unlimited funds and do have a career that is important. I have to find a balance, but recognize that denying my most basic needs, denies my family of knowing my authentic self and will likely cause me to reach a breaking point in the future. However, deciding to transition, and forcing everyone else to get on board seems a bit harsh and I stand to lose a lot by approaching things that way.

One thing is certain. Facing reality and plotting a path forward... is hard!

[sandra-leigh]

I went into HRT wiling to accept the potential consequences -- which is different from saying I was eager for some of them. And the road to accepting the potential consequences was a hard one; I started by investigating the potential consequences and whether I would even be considered or refused; and when they said "Yes you can", I went through a rough period about whether to go through starting it or not.

I had not decided to transition all the way; I still have not decided that 2 1/4 years later. I was suffering from GID and depression and I hoped that HRT would reduce those... which it did.

Last fall, I had an opportunity to ask an HRT-prescribing endo about whether "HRT-Lite" was realistic for people, whether for those unsure or for those whose circumstances are not compatible with presenting a female. He said Yes it is, and that the changes are (over time) reversible {though breast tissue might not completely vanish}, and that HRT can be stopped at any time. His main concern was about people taking sufficient anti-androgens to mostly block their T, without taking estrogen: you need one or the other (or both) for bone health.


a person that is transsexual is not really invested in a gender continuim

I have spoken about this more than once with my gender therapist, who is the "gatekeeper" (authorized to make the go/no-go determination for surgery) for the province. She strongly disagrees. The three doctors at the trans-health clinic for the province also disagree, as have at least two other doctors who have seen me, along with three other therapists (who do not specialize in gender.) The gender studies program at one of the local universities (one of the larger such programs in Canada) also works on the continuim basis including for "transsexuals".

I have no doubt that some transsexuals find that their personal feelings fall within the explanatory power of "the gender binary", but that is not something that can be applied to all transsexuals.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

good for the doctors...other doctors think autogynephelia is real, other doctors think conversion therapy works, other doctors think that its wrong to give us hormones at all, some think its a mental illness..etc..

otherwise its amazing how you asked all those people so fast about what i said..:heehee:

if a person wants to live a double life and call themselves transsexual i hope that works for them..i honestly do..it really is about what works for each person
i also support people using whatever means neccessary to find their own way..ts or not..hrt or not..but there are problems whenever you go into something so important when you don't have a handle on what you want to accomplish..

also

I have no doubt that some transsexuals are hiding behind a bunch of excuses (including doctors) because they cant or wont transition...
I have no doubt that some transgender people think of themselves as transsexual when expressing their female "side"

[Marleena]

@ Lea What I was suggesting is that living the Dual Gender role is the exception, most TS obviously want to live as women. So just not explained properly by me. Both examples I used are definitely TS.

[LeaP]

The spectrum concept is common in psychiatry, applying to many, many conditions. It is, however, primarily a diagnostic tool. Having a condition (in the sense of symptom) that manifests in infinite gradations is not in itself a disorder in the medical sense. Clearly not everyone who has a mild attraction to crossdressing, along with a bit of guilt is transsexual. So the spectrum doesn't allow you to escape from the classification problem.

People can attach whatever informal, qualitative meanings they want to the term. Have at it. From a medical standpoint, however, the classification boundaries are established by the Gender Dysphoria diagnosis (DSM 5, which goes live next month). So at a minimum, one who does not meet those criteria cannot be considered transsexual from a medical perspective. Is this diagnosis intended for transsexualism? Dr. K. Zucker, who chaired the DSM 5 working group for sexual and gender identity disorders, thinks so. Crossdressing and other gender variant behaviors are a separate diagnosis in the paraphilias section.

[JessGold]

Sweetie, I am going to accept at face value that you are indeed TS. If you are TS, and you don't want to transition it's going to be a hard way to live. GD will not go away, you can knock it down for a while, but it'll be back. Eventually it will be a monkey on your back you deal with every second of every day.

I am like Marleena's professional men who did HRT to try to keep GD at bay, and keep their family and income in tact. I made it 20 years - barely, and it wasn't pretty.

Wow! MelissaK. Thankyou for that story. Sincerely, thank you.

It really resonates with me. Because, in fact, I am TS, and I accept that reality. Well, for some whom might want to argue semantics, since I am not actively transitioning, it might be more appropriate to say TG and and not TS until I begin the process. But, generally speaking I don't see the difference, because I acknowledge and openly admit I am a woman's brain in a male shell. And while I don't get to re-write history, or be a cis girl, I can and have to, find ways to cope with that reality. Regardless, call it what you will, I'm more interested in getting to the point I wake up every morning, stretch and declare (honestly) that "I am awesome. My life is awesome. And damn it, I wouldn't do yesterday differently if I had the chance!" I don't know what its going to take to get to that point, but that's the goal. Baby steps? HRT in the proverbial shadows? Trial and error? Sweeping changes? I don't know, but I don't want thirty more years of regrets and "woulda-coulda-shoulda's."

Some of my favorite quotes apply here...
Mary Englebriet "If you don't like something. Change it. If you can't change it, change the way you think about it."

Oddly enough, this one is from the animated movie, Kung Fu Panda "You are too concerned with what was and with what will be. Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present." - Master Oogwei

Thanks again for your story.

[Chickhe]

Its a huge decision to change your lifestyle. I think many people reach a point where it is impossible to do what they have always done and decide they need to make a change. Me, personally, I like most of my life just the way it is so I find ways to express myself without a huge re-work. I contemplated what life would be like if a had decided to go down the transition path and for me, I figured it wouldn't fix much...maybe make life a heck of a lot harder... maybe that's why people say to live as a woman for a couple months to help you see what it would be like. It takes a lot of serious thinking to reach a point where its clear what you need to do.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i really love your response Jess
your good nature shines through and it will serve you well as you go through this no matter what you decide

being ts has two components , what you are, and what you do... its good to not be confused about the "What you are" part (even if its not so great to be ts in the first place)..

[Kathryn Martin]

What I am going to say is likely not very helpful but needs to be said. I read your OP and comments and wonder if you apprehend the amount of conflict it reveals. You talk about HRT as a means to be non-commital, you say your are TS but search in your words for a way to avoid transition. You sway around the gender binary like it is a merry go round. You take anti-depressants and therapy and your fears rule your day. You will ruin your life according to you faster or later but in any event. You are willing to take female and feminizing hormones yet want to stay "in guy mode", that is a guy.

Have you ever asked your wife what she would like or if she even would mind if you transitioned. On what basis do you fear, and what do you fear most, a ruined life (no way around that apparently according to you) or a ruined life faster.

You don't want to be female but effeminate.

I suggest being effeminate, and I really mean this. I suggest not to take hormones because they will screw with your endocrine physiology in a way that is very powerful. They don't make you effeminate but they definitely will cause your body to do things like growing boobs, changing your body habitus, screw with your sexual function and ability and can cause significant emotional distress.

[TeresaL]

I'm on a moderate three-pill regimen of HRT, and no longer living as a female. Since starting spironolactone six months ago, I have not had the urge to present or dress as a women, and am living 100% as a man, when I really expected to transition full-time as a woman. HRT fixed me up that way, and put a halt to my transitioning plans. Lea and Melissa have both mentioned that with HRT, they have had some GD-free plateaus, then later, the GD comes back and transition becomes a go again. Is it short term? Kaitlyn said "taking HRT isn't going to change except for the short term." Maybe that is the routine, but it may take a while. Possibly as much as a year? Six months into it for me, and GD is not here. Until then, I will live as if HRT is the cure.

Of course there are side effects, and if you don't like or want them, then STOP, or DON'T START. As for my side effects, libido is non existent, I cannot masturbate, I'm probably sterile, my nipples are sore, my breasts are starting to swell, fatty tissue is changing, my emotions are enhanced and changing, peach fuzz is growing on my head, and my body has a whole lot of hair missing. Andropause was already setting in anyway, man boobs can develop anyway, and babies are the last thing I need. Except for grandkids.

Yet I feel more calm -- so much more calm in fact, that I cannot see ever stopping my hormone treatment. The woman inside is corralled for the time being, and I only see her as a dim reflection of the past. We had good times, and sometimes I miss her, but I haven't felt led to express her since starting spironolactone. Cross dressing, especially, is null and void.

Realize also, that I'm a 65 y.o. who's 3 children (youngest 29) are through college, and all are married with children of their own. Also realize that I have been out as transgender to all my family and friends for almost 20 years. There is no one left to tell. I was even on a six month wait (back then) for SRS in Thailand. My wife has come to an understanding lately that the TG issue is permanent and can't be cured. My daughter brought her up to speed, which she learned through IU gender courses she had taken. I'm in a different position than you, and am retired, with wife working during the day. Nothing is holding me back to be man or woman. Your situation is different, and you have to adapt and survive.

As for me, it is possible to live as a man and be taking woman hormones. I'm doing it. But I'm too old to care, whether I grow boobs or not. Due to my family and age, they would be small anyway. Smaller than some man boobs. How about you, at your age, with much greater job and family responsibilities? You have a different scenario altogether. You also may not experience HRT as I did, and go straight for the jugular of SRS without looking back. If GD strikes hard again, I would do it in a heartbeat too. I'm only speaking of my experience as an individual, which may not be common with the other members here. Although I'm wondering if it is not a best kept secret.

In the meantime, I'm living GD free and having a few secondary female body changes is better than that cruel GD imbalance. I'm not trying to be gloomy, but nothing a TG does is win-win. We can never be fully cisgender (as society would expect) without some negative effects. That's the thing that sucks.

We are what we are, and that doesn't really suck.

[JessGold]

Kathryn, the conflict is not lost on me. I assure you. However, I don't think you've accurately interpreted some of my other points. And I'm not sure if its appropriate to suggest you know what, or who, I am. Here, let me elaborate.

It is true, that I am incredibly conflicted, which I daresay is fairly common with us TS folks. But, I am not conflicted about being TG/TS. Because, I am. It is a fact. I accept it. Because I have not announced this fact to the world, throwing caution to the wind, does not make me any less trans. I'm just trying to be a responsible adult.

The conflict that is apparent, that is obvious, that is persistent; is what do I do about this reality? What do I do, so I can wake up and be content with the choices I've made. The choices I've made the past 2 years have not alleviated my GD, and I'm not content with those choices. Obviously, I need to at least consider a more drastic course of action.

I did say I don't want to look back 30 years from now with a host of regrets. But I wasn't saying "damned if I do, damned if I don't." I was saying I want to own the choices I've made and take pride in them. And, if I up and decide to transition today, I could lose my entire family, my career, my house, and everything I've built. I don't consider that success. In fact, I would be devastated if my choices ruined the lives of my wife and children. I have to approach my life with a lot more caution and tact, to avoid catastrophe.

I consider divorce, catastrophic. As does my wife whom I've been honest with for nearly two years. She is standing beside me and is aware of the very real possibility of HRT in our future. We are raising a family together and she will be the first one to know if I plan to start HRT and her input will be vital to the decisions I make. Because, we have to make responsible decisions that are best for each other. That being said; continued depression, irritability, suicidal ideation and all those lovely issues that often accompany GD are not good for our family either. Dead, distant, or drunk daddy are all scenarios worse than two mommies...

I'm sorry that my off handed "effeminate" comment and accompanied :heehee: were misinterpreted. I mean, if my goal was to be effeminate only, I would have already achieved that with shaved legs and pits, well manicured hands and eyebrows, a litany of beauty products and a growing wardrobe. That's just not the case.

At any rate, I assure you, I'm not making decisions all "willy-nilly." I'm honestly wondering if I can alleviate my GD without drastic life changes while I consider what the future holds. I want to own my decisions, and be proud of them.

[Sheren Kelly]

The timing here is interesting. I just had dinner with a friend who has been on HRT for 10+ years and considers himself Bi-Gendered. He still works professionally and doesn't worry that the long hair and bust make him standout. I was surprised at seeing him in guy mode as she is a very presentable girl, but he has some very promenent breasts.

It is a crap shoot as to what your results will be, and I don't advocate taking HRT lightly, but if you are not comfortable with the changes, you do have a window where you can stop and reassess your path.

[KellyJameson]

If there were no consequences to transitioning what do you think transitioning would bring you?

What is it that you want and or need and why?

What is and has been your psychological relationship to your physical body.

In my opinion this noise you talk about could be gender dysphoria or it could be something else.

In my opinion stopping and starting HRT is dangerous. Hormones are extremely powerful and there affect on your body can be measured in one part to the trillion as the body fluids that carry them.

There are other forms of dysphoria such as imbalances of insulin or thyroid problems and in my opinion it is very important to understand your true psychological identity.

HRT when matched to a brain that responds to estrogen will deepen the experience of living because it calms and opens the mind by integrating it and suppressing the effects of testosterone that is unnatural to its structure.

If a person is overeight, prediabetic or have been exposed to chemicals that mimic estrogen so have had their testosterone suppressed this could also cause depression and anxiety and non-gender identity dysphoria

Dysphoria is a chicken or egg problem of which came first. Is it gender dysphoria that results in depression and or anxiety or another form of dysphoria that is being labelled as gender dysphoria.

Certainly there can be that back and forth that is caused by repression of ones true identity being finally confronted and uncovered.

Try to step back and honestly look at your whole life. Do you see the evidence of suffering from gender confusion, gender dissonance and gender identity conflicts?

Hormones and transitioning are scary but necessary things to do in the face of gender dysphoria but in my opinion every effort should be made to be sure that is what you are experiencing.

You are trying to quiet your mind and it is important to understand what is creating this noise.

HRT could have a good or very bad effect on you emotionally.

[Kathryn Martin]

Hi Jess,

of course I wouldn't know you from a hole in the wall. But that is essentially true of anyone who comes to this site and posts on this forum, at least in the beginning. What you describe is not uncommon nor would you find many here that have not in some way experienced similar or almost exactly the things that you experience. The considerations that you describe are in fact so common that I would venture to say that everyone here has experienced them.

Your OP and comments do however speak to state of your knowledge and self experience. And they reveal to me (maybe others feel quite different) that you have not allowed yourself to seriously consider real options. And if you are who you say you are then that is unavoidable, eventually.

The comment about effeminacy in your response to my post is also quite revealing to me:


if my goal was to be effeminate only, I would have already achieved that with shaved legs and pits, well manicured hands and eyebrows, a litany of beauty products and a growing wardrobe. I was not at all talking about the things you enumerated. In my view they have nothing to do with effeminacy at all. Ask yourself how you are witnessed by others? What do they communicate back to you, just you, right now, just Jess? The answer may give you a clue if you are effeminate or not. And ask yourself how your spouse witnesses you if you remove the talk about being transgender or transsexual. It may give you a clue as to what you can expect when you consider your real options. The starting point for such analysis (and you did say that you need to analyze) is what it is that YOU DO if there was no spouse and children. I am one of the few who remained married through full transition. I am post-op and transitioned in place in my community, as a self employed professional with four children (albeit grown up). So I do know of what I speak.

If you would like you can pm me.

[emma5410]

I took a light dose of estrogen for almost 18 months before I started to transition. It helped me cope with the gender dysphoria but in some ways it made things worse. I spent most of that time seeing a gender therapist every week. I had to come to terms with the negative feelings about myself and admit to myself that I was TS. What was stopping me was that I was terrified of transitioning and the effect it would have on my life. I was constantly looking for a sign that I was transsexual so I would not have to make the decision myself. Taking hormones made the situation worse because I was scared to transition, scared that everyone would find out my secret yet I was becoming slowly more female. It was like travelling somewhere before actually making the decision to go.
When I read your post I get the impression you are waiting for a sign. Something to make the decision for you, or at least make it easier. GD is not a friend. It will not make it easy for you. If you are really TS then eventually it will get out of control and you will have no choice but to transition. You are not there yet. You will know when you are.

[Anne2345]

However, I don't think you've accurately interpreted some of my other points. And I'm not sure if its appropriate to suggest you know what, or who, I am.

Jess, you are correct that Kathryn does not know who you are. But neither do any of the rest of us. You have only a total of 29 posts since you became a member here in December of 2011. So all we have to base what we know about you is what you have offered to us, which isn't a lot.

Regardless, you have come here seeking advice on a very serious subject matter.

And what I see you doing is thanking certain members for their advice and opinions (and running with it), and becoming defensive when other members ask difficult questions of you.

In other words, it seems like you are only considering the advice you want to hear, to the exclusion of those words you would rather not consider.

The thing is, though, that you have to considering everything as it relates to this issue. You cannot pick and choose. You cannot cherry pick. You will do yourself (and your wife and family) a tremendous disservice if you do.

[JohnH]

I have taken the attitude about M2F HRT: Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! I feel so much better with the medication than I used to, and as a bonus, I take better care of my body so I no longer have active type 2 diabetes. I have been on HRT for 18 months so the effects now are permanent. I still sort of present as a man - along with my breasts, lipstick, and femme haircut. I just take each day at a time and if I fully make the transition eventually even with SRS, so be it! As far as my wife is concerned she suggested I go on HRT in the first place and she really wants me to keep it up.

John

[mary something]

Jess honey, I've been rereading your posts in this thread and just wanted to make a simple point that might be helpfull. I've been almost exactly where you describe yourself today, and it's not a nice place to be unfortunately. My gender therapist really helped me notice when I was engaging in black and white type of thinking. I would get terribly anxious and depressed when trying to logically think about my future and whether I should transition or not because all I could see was a chasm of destruction no matter what choice I made. Don't waste your mental energy on what-if scenarios that are miles ahead of where you currently are. Focus on today, tomorrow, and next week. I found it helpfull to start a serious skin care regimen (especially on face), a good eyebrow shaping (androgenous enough to fit girl or guy mode), and shaving body hair. These simple concrete steps helped lower my gd enough (over time) to be able to approach my problem in a systematic way (use your logical side here!). It's just really easy to get yourself overwhelmed when trying to plan too far ahead, no one knows what the future holds for sure hun.
I
I agree with the sentiment that many of the posters here have made, starting hrt is transitioning for many people. It seems there are exceptions of course, but most folks report physical and mental changes that are powerful. Build your house with a good foundation, approach your problem systematically in baby steps. Just taking action now, for example, a serious facial skin routine everyday, will show results after some time that might help you feel more empowered and lesson the anxiety. I personally needed to achieve acceptance of myself and my transsexual nature (and expressing it to the world) before I felt comfortable scheduling an apt to start hrt.

[JessGold]

Kathryn- Thanks for your second reply. I should also apologize for taking offense when you stated "You don't want to be female but effeminate." I think I understand what you were getting at, but initially took it to mean you had first hand knowledge of what I wanted.

You're absolutely someone with a lot of valuable experience and I appreciate your input. You're absolutely right that I'm not alone and the issues I'm faced with have been experienced thousands of times by others. As strange as that sounds, its comforting to know I'm not the first...

You're also right that every time I seriously consider transition, I grapple for reasons not to. Its an incredibly frightening journey that I can not predict the outcome and I know its probably the biggest decision I'll ever make, should I chose to make it.

Upon further investigation, I was being quite superficial with my comments on being "effeminate." I see now what you were referring to, what you mean. Well, no one who has ever met me has said "now there's a manly man." :) I used to work in restaurants and was routinely pegged as flamboyant and often hit on by gay men. Women gravitate to me in conversation, as they would a gay man, and the only "manly" things my wife can point to is my ability to fix things around the house and my enthusiasm for college sports. I am naturally softer spoken and not nearly as aggressive as my male counterparts.

I am consciously aware of how my mannerisms, speech patterns, etc... are perceived by others and I have compensated by wearing sports teams shirts and always knowing what goes on in the sports world. I compensate to appear more masculine, and have for pretty much my entire life. Its a ruse, and when I let down my guard (see intoxicated) people often notice, and comment on, my mannerisms that are more feminine, or stereo-typically gay male.

My wife loves that I am a "sensitive guy," that I love to cuddle and hold hands, etc... Before the word "transgender" was in her vocabulary, she expressed her appreciation for my "softer side," and my ability to do all the "guy" things without being a stereotypical caveman. I tried, for years to walk that tightrope, with mixed success...

Anne- First, I sincerely hope all the ladies in here know I appreciate their advice, their experience and their stories. I don't have the time to respond in kind to everyone and I apologize if I'm cherry picking my responses. I hope my latest reply to Kathryn clears the air and I did not come here solely for agreement.

I have learned a lot from the help of the ladies in here already. I will continue to learn from them.

And to your last point, that is my greatest concern; making poor choices that negatively impact myself and my family.

Mary- Thank you. And you're absolutely right, allowing myself to adopt more feminine grooming routines, and slightly let down my guard has been helpful in many ways. Though it has obviously not alleviated my GD, there was a time when I required alcohol and/or drugs to even think about my "deepest, darkest, secret." During that time, when I knew I was alone, I would get wasted, "doll up" and then angrily purge all evidence. Internally, I would ridicule and punish myself and vow never to do such "ridiculous" things again. I would lie to myself and suppress my nature, but the results were always the same. The suppression never lasted long and I had developed terrible, self destructive, habits to cope.

I can honestly say I'm past those overtly self destructive behaviors, because I no longer hide being TG from myself... (sadly) just others. My daily grooming helps relieve some of the stresses, some of the GD, but most of all it keeps me from being volatile.
I've still got a long way to go before I accept what is right for me, and mine, but I realize being self destructive is also damaging to others I care deeply about.

The VERY common thread is that taking HRT is not a decision to be made flippantly. There are VERY real physical and emotional changes that are unpredictable, and assuming I can stay in "boy-mode" while I test the waters, so-to-speak, may not be the case, even temporarily. Assuming I would want to stay in boy-mode professionally, may not be the case either. And obviously, I probably shouldn't even consider taking HRT if I don't prepare myself and others for the very-real possibility I transition fully.

I have a lot to think about. I have a lot to work through. Thank you all for your insights.


I have taken the attitude about M2F HRT: Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
John
:D

That right there is funny. Awesome! Though, I'm pretty sure I don't have the cojones to pull that off... :heehee:

You also deserve kudos for improving your health by making better choices!

[Kathryn Martin]

Hi Jess,

One of the most interesting aspects of living an in-authentic life is the overcompensation by emphasizing of the stereotypes of masculinity in it's many forms. This is something that is unique to MtF's. Being an tomboy is much easier to get away with than being a feminine man. I have been variously (prior to transition) described as, "you have a swish", "effeminate", "not a real man", "a kind person for a man" etc. I never crossdressed or even adopted a feminine dress style prior to my transition, but the girl I am leaked everywhere through the cracks of my facade throughout all of those years and was both quite visible, perceived and communicated back to me, albeit in a completely wrong interpretation of those perceptions. I once wrote "being of a gender and having the world communicate back my birth sex was loneliest place imaginable". My swishiness, my being a girl and a woman, my gentleness were my expressing who I was. This has really not changed all that much but now, slowly, my true nature was and is being integrated with these perceptions and the result is that my true sex is also communicated back to me.

You are at a point where you have to ask yourself whether your attempts to hide your true nature is becoming pathetic. Again I don't mean dressing, clothes, makeup or any of that. If clothing made you of a different gender every womanless pageant would be populated by women which of course is an oxymoron. But hiding your nature, the essence of who you are through adopted behaviors and facades is mind-numbing and creates the very fear you are experiencing. Security of both financial and social and love is huge, believe me. It looms so large in so many that the answer is flight into a fantasy of crossdressing, a little hormones on the side, so called "female orgasms", etc. But none of that really answers the need you have whether you are transsexual OR gender variant. Who you are must be owned and for us unfortunate souls must be earned before it is owned. That is the great f*uck-up of *your date of birth*. Being born with hard wiring one way and plumbing the other is not fair, but actually this is not about fairness at all. This is about what you were given and what you make of it. All of the social, conventional, professional wisdom is worth exactly nothing. This is only you, not your wife, not your child, not your professional environment, just you.