Babies, Motherhood and Transexuals

[Paula_56]

Ok so this last weekend we went over to a some friends house to see their new granddaughter. Remember that Seinfeld episode "We got to see the baby".

I self identify as a woman and so often find I have more in common with the women in my life than the men.

As a parent, I was much more nurturing than the other fathers. I took a very active role in caring for my daughter.

But I have never had the pull that my wife and so many other natal women have towards babies and child birth.

After we left see was filled with joy after having held that beautiful baby.

I wanted to feel that but didn't

I was wondering if this changes with transition and HRT.

Can any of you post op girls shed any light on this??

Thanks Paula

[mary something]

thanks for sharing this because I have felt the same way before and wondered about it. I love kids, but know in my heart that I don't feel the same feelings that some natal women feel towards babies. I have no idea if hrt changes this but personally I doubt it because I believe what is happening with this phenomenom isn't due to estrogen but rather oxytocin. When a new mother holds her baby and nurtures it her brain releases incredible amounts of oxytocin (a chemical that promotes a bonding experience). Her body literally makes her bond deeply and intimitaly with the newborn, while the baby is doing the same to it's mother. Once a mother has experienced this phenomenom it almost seems to me that a "switch" has been flipped and in the future they are able to channel some of those memories and feelings again when holding another baby.

[noeleena]

Hi,

This will depend on the person, many trans people would run a mile & far away from haveing a child, i know because i asked quite a few, very few would wont to go down that road, meds or not .

Im not trans yet i would dearly have loved to have my own child the nearest was one of our grandkids, Dejarn who now is 10 y 5 m. she had spent a lot of time with us & went every where i or Jos & i went, so has grown up with us .

She is ...my... child i could not have is ...very very... close to myself as though i ...gave ...birth to her, for us its inbuilt its part of my wireing being female changes details in us, how your born , well its long before that of cause,

The Psychological , & Emotional part of us is very strong , women understand , thing is most men dont because its not in thier being to .

To carry your own child & give birth to bond in a way thats indisribable its so strong its a subject that winds myself up in a way nothing else compairs to it to the point of if anything happens to Dejarn it would kill me , ......& I MEAN KILL ME......it would take me out, theres nothing thats as strong as that bond we have,

I know im well past, if i could have my child im 65 its still there , this is not about hormones changeing who you are or changeing your mind this is from birth,

being intersex allows you to have the same thoughts & Emotions as other females that of cause does not say every female wonts to have children its still there just the same ,& some women cant have children because of issues that are there, it does not stop us from knowing we should give birth to our child,

Being a woman & knowing you can not give birth is very hard to take yet i know i can never give birth, because i was never given my womb, like some others like us because of mixed hormones or malfunchons with in our bodys,

How do you discribe something missing in the middle of your stomach. you cant you just know ,

Hope that helps,

...noeleena...

[Leslie Langford]

I can't really comment on this directly, Paula, but I did see an episode of the new Ricki Lake Show the other day which addressed the topic of transgenderism (she seems to be doing this fairly frequently lately), and which might have some bearing on your query.

One of the couples featured on this particular show was a married couple in which she was a pre-op M-T-F (gorgeous, BTW), and he was a pre-op F-T-M. Both had met while starting their transitions, fell in love, and decided to get married. They also both wanted to start a family and were about to start down the adoption and/or surrogate path when it occurred to them that Hey! - we can actually do this ourselves because we still have the original, factory-installed equipment. ;)

As a result, they temporarily went off hormones, let Mother Nature do her thing, and the F-T-M partner eventually got pregnant and bore a little boy who they also brought to the show. He looked to be about 2 years old, was cute as a button, and the audience just loved him! And the best part was that the F-T-M partner was pregnant again as they were so pleased with the outcome of the first event that they were determined to complete their family now.

Much of the rest of this segment was spent discussing their respective feelings about this whole child-bearing/raising thing, and especially how they related to the pregnancy and its aftermath from their own unique positions. Clearly, each one was approaching this from the opposite end of the spectrum, and it took considerable effort to wrap their minds around the current situation because of the disconnect between how their minds related to this vs. some fundamental biological realities that they had to deal with.

The M-T-F partner spoke about her own emerging nurturing, maternal feelings towards their child, and her deep regret that she was unable to nurse him when this became one of her primal drivers. The F-T-M partner also spoke about the deep conflicts he felt in both wanting to have and bear this child, but how at the same time it seemed almost like an out-of body experience for him as he had to suppress his fundamental male side during the pregnancy.

What really brought this into focus for him was seeing his body changing in ways that were totally foreign to him (even worse than having female genitalia in the first place from his perspective), and how towards the end of the pregnancy he had to withdraw from being seen in public because of all the stares he had to endure when it became clear that people simply didn't know what to make of him. Still, he had no regrets, and was obviously willing to go through the same thing again for the sake of their second child and their family as a whole.

I don't know if that equates to the type of sacrifices that males often make to ensure that their families are safe and well taken care of, but he certainly seemed to play the traditional male "protector" role in the relationship despite being the one to carry the couple's babies for the sake of sheer necessity and expediency.

But all that said, once the family is complete, both parties plan to continue on with their original plans to transition fully via SRS, and consider their current situation as only a minor (and necessary) bump in the road towards their ultimate goal of having their bodies align with their gender and sexual orientations.

Fascinating, and proving yet again how complex and unpredictable human sexuality and gender orientation can be!

[Paula_56]

Thanks for the reply Mary, I think you may have hit it right. I do feel there is something chemical or hormone about these intense feelings. You can just see it when a group of women get around a baby. I feel left out, but on the other hand when I talking fashion or shoes, I fit right in -paula

Leslie interesting contrast here. The thing I take from this is no two trans people are a like and we all struggle with a mixture of feelings, sexuality, and identity --paula

[Kaitlyn Michele]

some of those feelings are socially based..

HRT changed my feelings, but not as much as i thought... i think that is also social...for whatever reason, in my previous life even tho I man'd up, I was very open and felt comfortable with my emotions (notwithstanding lots of testosterone fueled emotion too)

[mary something]

Paula, yes it is a measurable physical phenomenon but remember that like any other biological process some feel it more strongly than others, some women even don't feel it at all. While it is an aspect of being a woman for many it is not necessary to be a woman.

Kaitlynn- I agree that there is a social component to it also but we as humans enjoy the company of others who share our feelings (as evidenced by this forum :)

[donnalee]

As far as Ricky Lake (and anything presented there)goes, I would take it with more than a grain of salt. The reason she left the air before was that someone died due to one of her "exposes", making her smell worse than Rosie O'Donnell in 110° weather.

[KellyJameson]

A great deal of our emotions are created by memories and or imagination.

Postpartum blues are very real and many mothers in the first few months after birth want nothing to do with the life they have created and this is a dangerous time for the newborn.

It is often excused as hormones but it goes deeper than that when they feel the baby is drinking their blood and stealing their soul.

Bonding with babies is not an automatic of being a woman and I know many woman that hate children.

You are expecting an experience that you associate with being a woman but there is the other darker side to also consider.

Instead may I suggest thinking in terms of connecting with all of life not just babies.

It is that feeling that particularly comes through touch when you hold someones hand or give them a hug and I feel this for any living being because they are alive so it is one life connecting with another. It is similar to the experience of looking deeply into someones eyes.

You can have this experience with people, animals or almost any warm blooded creature.

It is an intense awareness of the "other" so you are fully in the moment and this comes partly out of the powers of your imagination to "know" the other so you feel empathy and compassion.

This ability is lacking in many men and women because they are preoccupied with their own ego centric existence so you experience connection with others when you are able to set aside yourself as "ego" while remaining yourself.

The ego makes the mind very noisy and you need quiet for connection.

I do think hormones make this ability more natural or less natural but I believe it is available to anyone who is willing to get out of their own way.

In my opinion you are placing unfair expectations on yourself related to being a woman.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

As i read the thread one thing comes to mind...

there was a point after i been through all the procedures that i had a feeling that if analyzed it was very authentic and female... i forget exactly the situation, but it was very powerful and it made me consider the difference between analyzing something i felt and wondering if it was female enough vs just having the feeling and moving on...

i really don't think about my feelings any more or about what they mean......i just experience them

you can't want to have more of a certain type of feeling..thats what feelings are about , they just happen..

...i'd say many of the feelings I have now are the same ones i've always had, but as i mentioned above, social situations would not reward me for expressing them and so they often stayed in the bottle..

[kellycan27]

I am a mom. I can only imagine the bond that a woman has with a child that she birthed seeing as how I haven't experienced that. All I can attest to is the bond that that I have with my adopted kids. I don't see any difference in the way I nurture or love mine as opposed to my GG friends that have biological children. My own mother wasn't very nurturing or loving nor was my father.... too busy doctoring and lawyering. IMHO I am much more of those things to my kids than my biological mother was or ever could be to me..