Considering Transition

[PaulaQ]

So I'll preface this by saying that my realization that I was transgendered (who am I kidding? I'm a girl), was just 3 months ago. I started talking to a counselor 6 weeks ago - with the goal of trying to accept myself as some type of cross dresser, to do *anything* to avoid transition. So this is all really sudden.

But I'm sitting here typing this, in drab, and I'm a mess. My anxiety has been horrible since I changed back to guy mode this afternoon, for the return home of my wife. Going a couple of days as a male is hell - I feel dreadful. I don't want to live this way anymore.

What is the expression that gets used here a lot "Transition or die?" If so, I've certainly been close enough to "or die", particularly last week, that I don't feel I have much other choice but to seriously, seriously consider transition.

I spent about 20 hours last week having a nervous breakdown - a psychotic break. I hallucinated myself as a monster as I looked at myself in the mirror. It was horrible - but I realized that I'd seen that monster before, when I had a similar breakdown when I was 18. For the next 20 hours I was just flat unable to look in the mirror - I was afraid of what I'd see there.

I absolutely hate myself, and I hate my body. I hate my hirsute form - gettting waxed last week was an enormous relief.

I'm new at all this - I've only gone out in public presenting as female a couple of times. But what strikes me about it is that at this point, presenting as female feels normal, where as presenting as male stresses the hell out of me, to put it mildly. (I have full blown anxiety attacks, complete with shaking, and other physical symptoms.) I spent a part of last Tuesday night contemplating what exactly I'd need to do in my car to defeat all the safety features built into it, to end myself in a crash without injuring someone else. (Running headlong into a semi at 160MPH would do it - but that would be a horrible thing to do to the other driver.) At the time, this all seemed like a fairly positive way of thinking about a problem - because I just couldn't handle the pain of living the way I do now. (I've calmed down - I'm not thinking this way now - it would be a horrible thing to do to my family.)

So I've gone back to my doctor, and have some more medication. Although he's not a specialist in TS issues, he has a couple of TS patients, and neither he, nor my therapist thinks I need to do very much right now - I'm too unstable. And I'm sure they are right - I'm a mess right now, to put it mildly. So the first goal is to try to get me a little more emotionally stable, and then see where we go from there.

But I'm in enough emotional pain over my gender - I hate my body, and I hate myself so much - that I just don't see that any other conclusion is possible. I need to transition when I'm able. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.

I'll be honest - I'd hoped I'd figure out some way to cheat this. I am an excellent, excellent cheater. I'm sneaky. I'm clever. I'm underhanded. I'd hoped to secretly CD and somehow preserve some semblance of my marriage. But this is bigger than any trick I can come up with. There's no trick here - I'm barely hanging on for dear life.

Will I be happier? I dunno - it's hard to imagine that I could feel worse than I do right now. I can barely function at work. I'm trying to be there for my wife - but emotionally, it's mostly a total front. I love her - but I'm not really there for her right now. I'm trying - but just trying to keep it together in guy mode takes a LOT of my mental energy. Right now, just staying alive, relatively sane, and not miserable would be a big improvement. Happiness would just be icing on the cake.

Am I thinking about this the right way? I feel the conclusion here is just inescapable - I'm going to transition. Is there some alternative I'm missing? Am I nuts?

I'm not looking for validation here - hell shoot me down.

There are about a million reasons NOT to transition. I just can't bear the thought of living another 30-35 years and hating the face that looks back at me in the mirror. I won't make it that long feeling the way I feel.

Everyday, I put on my male clothes, it feels like I'm donning a prison uniform. I am a prisoner in my own life. This is horrible - because my life ought to be pretty good. Many things about it are great, including my wife. But the good of all that doesn't seem to weigh heavily against how dreadful I feel.

[Rogina B]

Wanting to get your own way[freedom to be the person you want] is far different than permanent changes to your body and life.Not sure you have the experiences to even know what you need. My opinion only.

[Rianna Humble]

Some may try to pick holes in your reaction to having to dress in male clothing, but I experienced something very similar in the run up to my transition and the psy who had to screen me for mental illnesses thought my physical reaction to dressing as a bloke was quite understandable.

I have also been in that position where I was planning different scenarios for suicide and like you was held back by the sense of fairness to others. I would strongly encourage you to remember that there is much more future in being alive than being dead. I have never heard a single dead person say that the prefer that state to life :heehee:

IMNSHO, the professionals are right, you must get your other problems in hand before embarking upon full-blown transition, but that does not mean you cannot make any progress. Can you afford to start electrolysis?

If you do need to transition (and I am not doubting your word) how far have you/can you get your wife involved?

[Nicole Brown]

Hi Paula,

What you are describing sounds an awful lot like me and what I had been going through. I use to suffer every time I had to change back into male mode and became ecstatic every time I slipped into my lingerie. Today, what both of us suffer from is called Gender Dysphoria. This is basically an individual born into one gender, but actually is of the opposite gender.

The accepted and recommended treatment for Gender Dysphoria is therapy with a gender therapist who can write a hormone letter for you which will enable you to begin HRT. Most of the girls who suffer from GD, report feeling calmer and more normal with hormones. I can tell you from personal experience that hormones have done a world of good for me. If you desire to learn more about your condition and what the medical community recommends, take a look at the WPATH Standards of Care. You can find this extremely essential document at the following link:

http://www.wpath.org/publications_standards.cfm

PM me if I can be of further help.

[Angela Campbell]

It is a scary thing. I thought I could handle it too for a while. I would say I can make do with just crossdressing and no need to transition. I realize now that I was trying to rationalize my fears of what would happen if I did transition. I have always been able to handle it before why not now? I have known I should be a girl since I was very young and somehow I lived with it for many years. Why now do I feel like I cannot?

Suicide is not an option for me my brother did that when I was 20. I cannot allow myself to cause that kind of pain on my family no matter what level of hell I have to live in. That leaves me with fewer choices. Transition or learn how to give tours to all the newbies in hell. There really is no easy way out I guess.

You may transition, that will really be up to you. I have read many places where they say that sometimes just HRT will alleviate the symptoms of GD and no further action is needed. I am seeing a therapist too and will eventually begin HRT. He goes by the WPATH guidelines so it will take a few months.

Try to hang on. You have time.

[PaulaQ]

Wanting to get your own way[freedom to be the person you want] is far different than permanent changes to your body and life.Not sure you have the experiences to even know what you need. My opinion only.

1. What does freedom have to do with anything I've said? Do you think I actually WANT this? Oh no - but I am powerless to stop it. I WANT to not wake up each morning, disappointed because I'm awake, and not dead... Seems to me that this is happening to me - like it or not.

2. What experiences would you suggest I acquire, before my personality completely collapses - seriously, I'm all ears.


IMNSHO, the professionals are right, you must get your other problems in hand before embarking upon full-blown transition, but that does not mean you cannot make any progress. Can you afford to start electrolysis?

If you do need to transition (and I am not doubting your word) how far have you/can you get your wife involved?

Yeah, I'm going to look at electrolysis or getting my beard lasered. I have been clean shaven the entire time my wife has known me. That will be a major step I can take that will not seem like much is happening. (I'm open for opinions about electrolysis vs. laser.)

My wife is a significant problem. We love each other, and we've been together 20 years. She can barely abide the idea of me cross dressing - I only came out to her a month ago as being transgendered. She is CERTAIN I'll transition, and so she is grieving over the entire process. (I haven't come out and told her this is how it's liable to go. I've told her I'd like to avoid it - which was true until last week. Hell, it's still true now - I just don't think I can anymore.) I have been pretty honest with her about how I feel about myself. She doesn't see how clothes fix how I feel. My wife is no dummy.

She wants to help me through this - but she can't really bear it, and I'm 100% sure that at some point during a transition, the marriage will end. I'm hoping we can salvage some semblance of a relationship, at least as friends, but there is really no telling. This is a real crisis for her. I empathize with her a lot. If I could spare her this, I would, but I don't think I can. She's keeping it together better than I am right now - but that may not last.

She's having problems with any changes I make, even fairly trivial ones. She feels like her world is falling apart and the happy life she knows and loves is coming to an end. She has a point - that's what's happening alright.

Anyway, suffice to say - I don't have a ton of support at home.


The accepted and recommended treatment for Gender Dysphoria is therapy with a gender therapist who can write a hormone letter for you which will enable you to begin HRT. Most of the girls who suffer from GD, report feeling calmer and more normal with hormones.

I'm seeing a therapist who has experience with trans people. I'll make sure she can write the letter - I believe she can. I feel pretty certain that I'm suffering from GD. The other girls in my TG support group report similar feelings to the ones I'm experiencing, although I feel I'm by far the most messed up girl in the meeting right now. (Although there are others there early in their transition who have really genuinely terrible problems - I'm not trying to make light of that at all. I'm not actually happy to report how messed up I seem to be.)

I'm still trying to find resources though. I'm in a fairly terrible part of the country for someone who is contemplating transition.

This is the third episode of this I've had during my lifetime. This also feels like the worst of the three.

My expectation is that this is going to be tough sledding.


You may transition, that will really be up to you. I have read many places where they say that sometimes just HRT will alleviate the symptoms of GD and no further action is needed. I am seeing a therapist too and will eventually begin HRT. He goes by the WPATH guidelines so it will take a few months.

I hope this is the case Ellen, although I have my doubts. I *hate* myself. I *hate* being a guy. I'm not totally hung up on SRS - but I need to have breasts, of this I'm sure. I think FFS would help a lot too. I'm not hung up on "pretty" - I don't think I'll get to "pretty." I'll settle for not hating myself.

[TeresaCD]

Hi Paula.
There is a school of thought to do whatever you need to do to stay sane, and stay married, while continuing medication and counselling, working through what things you need to.
Then review in a month or two.
I know your wife is very important to you , and you to her. I still think she may be wrong, and is assuming the worst case for her - that you will transition and that things will end. She may be right to, but I know from my brief time here that it doesn't have to be that way - that for each of us there is a balance to be found.
I am sure you will see the best way forward, whatever that is, in time.
BTW, they say laser, although more expensive, is less painful and more permanent than electrolysis.
Feeling for you, from way over here..

[mary something]

thanks for sharing your experience, it sounds like you are dealing with a lot right now. Keep posting, this is a wonderful community of people who understand.

[Angela Campbell]

OK it seems like you have enough information to set some goals. Laser / electro for sure, maybe eventually HRT or even FFS. So figure out how to get to these goals. Even planning, having something to look towards will help to keep from feeling helpless. I am starting electrolysis this week. I know it will take a long time but I cannot control that and it feels good just knowing there will come a day.

I know you have some really big problems, but you are working on it and doing something. I prefer to hate the situation and not myself. Oh yes I have spent years hating my body but I have done something about that, and will continue to. I look at it like a problem that must be solved.

Laser seems to be much quicker than electro but you need a good contrast between dark hair and light skin. In my case I have too much grey hair for laser. Electro seems to be more expensive, more painful, and much slower. I have also heard that laser is not always permanent and electro is. I hear both hurt though.

thank you sir may I have another!

Many of the girls I know that are younger than me got laser first then used electrolysis on the rest. Many of them had to do the whole body.

[DaniG]

But I'm in enough emotional pain over my gender - I hate my body, and I hate myself so much - that I just don't see that any other conclusion is possible. I need to transition when I'm able. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.


I'll be honest - I'd hoped I'd figure out some way to cheat this. I am an excellent, excellent cheater. I'm sneaky. I'm clever. I'm underhanded. I'd hoped to secretly CD and somehow preserve some semblance of my marriage. But this is bigger than any trick I can come up with. There's no trick here - I'm barely hanging on for dear life.

Your excellent cheating has probably gotten you this far, and possbily kept you alive. But at some point, you reach the end of the road, and you must yield.


Will I be happier? I dunno - it's hard to imagine that I could feel worse than I do right now. ... Happiness would just be icing on the cake.

I believe from our discussions that you will indeed find peace, and therefore be happier. Just my $.02.


IMNSHO, the professionals are right, you must get your other problems in hand before embarking upon full-blown transition, but that does not mean you cannot make any progress. Can you afford to start electrolysis?

While this makes sense to a degree, the problems caused by dysphoria can only be addressed by transition. If there are issues that can be mitigated in the short term, then they should be focused on in preparation for transition. But Paula is dealing with dysphoria derived problems, and transition should not be delayed in hopes that her anxiety can be aliviated through normal techniques. It's well demonstrated that these techniques aren't effective with dysphoria. (Otherwise, transition wouldn't be necessary.)


(I'm open for opinions about electrolysis vs. laser.)

Several years ago, long before I knew I was trans I tried to laser may facial hair. I went through six painful session, but in the end, it had little effect for me, even though I don't have much gray hair. I won't waste my money again.

Anyway, I've heard that laser is only supposed to be effective to about ten years. Electrolysis will be my method of choice.[/QUOTE]


My expectation is that this is going to be tough sledding.

There's no doubt. But you're a survivor, Paula. You'll make it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you really do have to separate your other issues before you really get moving on something like transition..

the good news is that if you step back and take your life day by day, you may find more stability than you can imagine..

its confusing for us because the mental health issues go hand in hand.. when gender dysphoria gets bad you may describe negative feelings as depression or anxiety...but there is an added component which i can only describe as a feeling of being trapped and isolated ... some people don't feel that added component nearly as much...its that extra feeling that aims so many of us towards transition..no matter what the cost because the feeling of isolation is so distressing.....and because you are transsexual, you "just know" that living as a woman will help...

you want to thing day to day...electrolysis can make you feel better as it feels like progress ...anything that feels like progress should help... another thing you can do is to brave the world..just do it...i recall very well my feelings about going out and about...i realized my dressing sessions were going to need a real world test if i was to proceed...many stares later, i was alive and being out there only cemented my understanding that i was aiming towards transition..

[arbon]

Take it one step at a time, plan things out, don't rush (even if it feels like you have to, don't!) Hair removal is a great place to start. let your wife have some time to catch up, your changing her life to. And keep your seatbelt on tight - you don't know what a bumpy ride is yet.

What about work? Money?

Laser or electrolysis? Some people do good with laser, it depends on your hair and the person and machine doing it. Some do all electrolysis. I did 8 or 9 sessions of laser and it reduced it a lot but I still do a session of electrolysis each month and don't see it ending anytime soon. Almost three years since I started I still have to shave!!

It all takes time.

Kaitlyn suggested getting out more but you live in a small town the way I understand it, be careful with that.

[josee]

Paula, I came from a similar place as you in that I hoped for a long time that I was just a crossdresser but like you the dysphoria kept coming back with a vengeance. I went to several different therapist over the last 10 years who while well meaning tried to fix everything but the GD and I just kept getting worse instead of better. I finally found one who could see that the many issues in my life, the depression, the dishonesty, the disassociation were caused by the GD. Her main goal has been to get me to start loving myself again and the best technique I have found for that is to make some sort of progress towards my goal of complete transition.

I started with electrolysis then found a Groupon for 6 laser sessions for $149. I just had the sixth session and my beard is much less noticeable and easier to cover with make up. I will return to electrolysis to finish off the hair removal but just seeing my beard shadow grow fainter helped me tons. I started HRT which my therapist gladly wrote for me after 3 sessions and finally feel like the real me is starting to emerge. I am on my 6th month of hormones. My marriage of 21 years is in shambles now partially due to my steady progress. I love my wife so this really hurts but not as much as living a lie. There are some wives who are able to deal with this whole thing, I know of one happy couple who go to my church (the gay one). Which for me finding the MCC church has helped also cause I can go there every Sunday as my true self and am accepted completely and treated like a lady by everyone there.

I so identify with what you said in your last paragraph that putting on male clothes feels like donning a prison uniform so now the only time I do is when I go to my "manly" job. I am starting school in June to learn a more appropriate career that I feel will be a better fit.

I wish you luck and peace in your journey, if you need to talk feel free to PM me.

[Badtranny]

I want to set something straight for anyone who might care. This idea that transsexual women must hate their male lives is getting a little bit nutty. I have friends that feel the same way but I'll just speak for myself and take the hit. I personally never hated being male. I didn't hate wearing men's clothes. I didn't cry whenever I got out of the shower and caught a glimpse of my willy in the mirror. I cannot comprehend how someone lives an entire lifetime and suddenly becomes horrified that they are a man.

I had problems with my body, I was never happy with it. I was not happy as a man, but I appreciated the perks of strength and athleticism. I enjoy dressing in cute outfits now, but I enjoyed dressing up as a man too.

My transition was born from a simple desire to not be treated like a guy anymore. I wanted to live what was left of my life openly and authentically. I never FELT like I fit in with the dudes, and I wanted to join the other team once and for all. I could have easily continued my life as it had been, but I chose instead to give myself a chance to experience a life without pretending. I wanted to give myself a fighting chance to find happiness, maybe even a husband.

Those who wonder if they might be TS would do well to consider the real life consequences of pulling that pin. If panties give you some kind of comfort, you need to know that there isn't a pair of panties in the world that will indemnify you from the pain of being laughed at when you least expect it. In my view, transition is something you need to do with a clear head and an empty hand. Any issues you carry with you will just make everything that much more difficult to manage.

[PaulaQ]

I want to set something straight for anyone who might care. This idea that transsexual women must hate their male lives is getting a little bit nutty. I have friends that feel the same way but I'll just speak for myself and take the hit. I personally never hated being male. I didn't hate wearing men's clothes. I didn't cry whenever I got out of the shower and caught a glimpse of my willy in the mirror. I cannot comprehend how someone lives an entire lifetime and suddenly becomes horrified that they are a man.

I had problems with my body, I was never happy with it. I was not happy as a man, but I appreciated the perks of strength and athleticism. I enjoy dressing in cute outfits now, but I enjoyed dressing up as a man too.

My willy is the part that probably bothers me the least. It's everything else about my body that I hate. I've *always* hated my body. I have always felt like some type of freak of nature. These feelings have intensified over the past few months though, and are really bad again. I have always hated myself as a person. I hate the person who looks back at me in the mirror.

As for my male life - my actual life is pretty good. I'm moderately successful, I have a wonderful marriage (at least until I came out), and I have kids that have grown up to be pretty decent people. I'll trash much of this. Oh well, this has trashed my life a couple of other times - but this will be the last time, one way or the other.

I'm just finally able to admit now, something that I've known for a long time, but tried to suppress - I'm not a man, at least not in my mind. I've tried hard to be one - but I don't fit in with most guys. I never have. I just don't.

I've never liked men's clothes. I always just bought 5-6 of the same things, and rotated them out day to day. I thought this was "efficient", but in reality, I just never cared enough to even really try.

edit: As for the perks of strength and athleticism - I've never gotten to enjoy those. You know the two things I enjoy about being male?
1. Being able to pee standing up. Very useful outdoors.
2. Female reproductive organs are complicated and prone to failure. I was happy to avoid what I've observed some women go through with their uterus and ovaries.


Those who wonder if they might be TS would do well to consider the real life consequences of pulling that pin. If panties give you some kind of comfort, you need to know that there isn't a pair of panties in the world that will indemnify you from the pain of being laughed at when you least expect it. In my view, transition is something you need to do with a clear head and an empty hand. Any issues you carry with you will just make everything that much more difficult to manage.

I'm unafraid of being laughed at. The one thing that being handicapped has given me is that I have years of experience with being stared at, joked about (particularly when I was young), pitied, and generally not treated like a normal person. I genuinely do not give a damn what other people think. And god help the person who is dumb enough to laugh at me - I have an acid tongue and years and years of unresolved anger - they won't like what they hear. (The kids in school never did - some of them got really unfortunate nicknames from me that stuck with them a long damn time.) Laughing at me huh? They can f***ing bring it. (Seriously - people stare at me all the time now - I don't even notice anymore. It bothers people who are with me, at first, who aren't used to it either. How will this be worse?)

In my case, I think the consequences I fear the most are hurting others, like my wife. She's going to be hurt by this - she already is hurting a lot from this. Hurting the people I care about is the worst thing I've ever experienced. If my death (which would hurt them worse) didn't seem preferable to living on as a man, I wouldn't even consider this, because of how hurtful it is to others. I fear losing everything, and starting over too, but I've done that before, so I know I can do it. It really sucks though. I hope to avoid at least *some* of that.

I fear losing my marriage, and never having a relationship again. I fully expect that when I go through with transition, I'll pretty well insure that I never have another relationship, and that I die alone. If I can look at myself in the mirror on the day I die, and actually smile at who I see, it'll be worth it. I am not even going to think a lot about sexuality - I assume that part of my life will simply be over. Sucks, but thems the breaks.

As for happiness - who freaking knows? I've been happy for the past 20 years - honestly, the only time in my sad, sorry life I've been happy. I'm insane to consider giving all that up - except - yeah, that's the deal, I'm literally going insane over this. You just have not lived until you hallucinate yourself as a monster. So I may not get happy - I think my odds of being as happy as I've been are low. By historical standards of my life, the last 20 years of happiness have been an anomaly. I will be unsurprised if I don't find something better.

Not hating myself, not dying, and not losing my mind are probably going to have to suffice. Because I've got another 30-35 years on this earth, in all probability, and I am not going to make it feeling as I do now.

Or am I being wildly optimistic with my expectations? I'll I'm really expecting is to feel better about myself. I have low expectations for everything else. But I feel bad enough about myself right now that this seems like a good tradeoff.

PS I'm trying to decide if my past makes me uniquely able to withstand what I'm going through - or if it is going to insure my eventual destruction. Jury's still out on that one!

PPS I just want the pain to stop. I don't really care about an existential concern like "happiness". I also don't think I have a hell of a lot of choice. I can watch my sanity disintegrate, or off myself. Gee, both of those seem like terrible choices.

[Rogina B]

you want to thing day to day...electrolysis can make you feel better as it feels like progress ...anything that feels like progress should help... another thing you can do is to brave the world..just do it...i recall very well my feelings about going out and about...i realized my dressing sessions were going to need a real world test if i was to proceed...many stares later, i was alive and being out there only cemented my understanding that i was aiming towards transition..
My point exactly,you need to test drive before you buy.You may lack the self confidence to be happy in the outside world..Also,you don't mention having any close friends in the "same boat" and you state that your wife is "having none of it". Many of us nontransitioners resent presenting male,[I lead a genderfluid lifestyle],but you may not get the desired calmness if you "blow your world up". Don't rush to join the "transitioning club" just yet.My opinion only.

[stefan37]

Seriously slow down, take a breath and continue to seek therapy to sort this out. Your body will be your body. If you are unhappy now , what makes you think you will be happy later. You might have breasts. but all your other attributes will remain as is. Certainly for a long time. I still have love handles, a large chest and large bone structure. My weight is down to a manageable 183 and losing more has been very difficult. I can relate to Melissa's experience also. I never hated my body and when in shape was proud. I just always believed I should have breasts. I thrived in a male centric industry and will continue to do so after transition. I enjoyed doing male activities and my group of close friends were not alpha males, so i was able to relate very well to them. For me there is an internal urge to be the opposite gender. I have felt it since an early age. I could no longer handle the constant anxiety and keep pushing the envelope with my wife. Therapy helped me to realize that my internal urge was a path I had to try. Hormones were a god send to me. I have had no anxiety since starting and they were obviously the chemical my brain lacked and craved.

As far as your marriage, well I do not know your wife, but in my experience this forum aside. I know of no person in or out of my support group that is still married. I know there are couples that stay together but the brutal reality is the overwhelming majority will not not survive. It took less than 6 months on hrt for my 30 + marriage to fall apart. We are still adjusting and navigating being housemates, and as time goes forward I have less hope than I did we will stay together. If losing your wife is paramount to you think carefully. Just the declaration that you desire to transition can and in many cases will throw the marriage into irrevocable disarray. And I have never been more attentive, involved and participated in my wife's life more than the past year. she is struggling because she knows I am a better person and she enjoys my new personality. But the reality for her she cannot sleep with a woman. Even though I still appear very male and still have my genitals(they no longer work), the soft skin and breast development are the 2 physical changes she knows she can not deal with. She is just not wired to be in an intimate relationship with a female.

Transition is serious business and it gets real very fast. Be prepared to handle the disruption to your life that will occur. For me the the clothes are not what it is all about.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

You can tell from the gals here there are a couple common themes..

slow down...day by day..get your affairs in order...

so much of what you are saying is consistent with what many ts people say...

i never hated my life or my body parts or even my clothes... but I was indifferent to them... i was afraid of losing things...i lost my job, i lost my wife...i didn't lose my kids altho i am forever sad that i had to make them feel bad...

I'd say use the old motto don't transition unless you have too...but i'd be prepared because there is a real possibility that you may have too based on everything you are saying...
the reason i'm saying that is just reading through your posts and seeing the gender distress...you simply have to get in front of that for thebest outcome...if you want to try to ride this out you have to "mitigate" the distress by making small changes, and if you want to transition you are going to need alot of patience

often for the struggling ts, its not about what you are afraid of, or what you want...its about gender dypshoria ...

if you can live day by day, and do the little things right, you can get yourself together better, be in a better frame of mind, and hopefully make whatever path you end up on better for yourself..

btw i think your unique situation may protect you from some of the bitterness I know I felt about being marginalized and shunned by people...if you've experienced that in your life, you wont have to learn the skills I had to learn to feel better about myself anyway

[Marleena]

I want to set something straight for anyone who might care. This idea that transsexual women must hate their male lives is getting a little bit nutty. I have friends that feel the same way but I'll just speak for myself and take the hit. I personally never hated being male. I didn't hate wearing men's clothes. I didn't cry whenever I got out of the shower and caught a glimpse of my willy in the mirror. I cannot comprehend how someone lives an entire lifetime and suddenly becomes horrified that they are a man.


Melissa this isn't a hit but late transitioners are quite common. In my case it's my second round with GD. I went through this in my 20's, wanted to transition but couldn't find help (1970's). I buried it pretty good (denial) in my brain until this second round. As far as man parts go, never cared for them. At my age now this is not wanted at all and I fought this for a long time but needed answers. Once I was diagnosed and finally accepted the inevitable those old memories started coming back. So I guess you can run but you can't hide.

[ArleneRaquel]

I have never "hated" my maleness, or even disliked it. I just prefer presenting myself as a female.

[Marleena]

Oh and Melissa if you meant people that had no clue they were TS until their late 50's or in their 60's I can't answer that. Maybe putting on a dress triggered something. I'm seeing there are no rules for this self discovery.

Back to topic: Paula get to that gender therapist to sort yourself out. Slow down and don't overthink things in the mean time. This can drive you nuts.

[traci_k]

Paula,
There's a lot of good advice here, but the best, slow down, take a breath. Yes you may have to transition. That alone brings a whole nother set of problems as those here who have or are transitioning can tell you, and it doesn't happen overnight. You're still relatively young so you do have time. Talk to your therapist, start making plans and executing those plans as they seem right. It's going to take money to transition and and income after. Many of us wish that "poof" we could change overnight, that isn't reality. Know you've got a friend.

Hugs!

[punkypunk]

Wow, I totally get it mate. I too am a master of deception, reality escapee and keen observer of ppl and their motivations. I'm getting better now but there were times where even I didn't remember the truth from the mask.
plagued by thoughts of suicide (where you have your car, I tie nooses over n over). Finally, after years of failing to build up the balls to off myself I realised a few things,
first that my kid would most likely, if given the choice as an adult, want to deal with a transsexual father than a faded memory of a corpse. I think this is true of more ppl than we think :-)
Second that what the f do I care what anyone thinks? If you truly hate the world, why worry what it thinks of you? And that I'm not alone. I honestly thought I was unique being good looking, succesful, clever, great with the ladies (and guys), married to the coolest chick on the Earth; but still always looking at girls and aching to b like them. I love being a man n totally rocked it, I don,t NEED to transition, could probably carry on as is, but I [I]want[I] to transition, so screw everyone I will. I don't want to down play your own story, but it really helped me once I realised I wasn't a random occurance, others have tread your weary path and survived :-)

All the advice here seems to be to take it slow, I reckon you have so much to do you can pay lip service to taking it slow while you take care of the beard, wax eyebrows, learn how to do makeup, practice ya girl voice, buy new clothes and remove ALOT of hair in a never ending cycle. Then get out as a girl, that will help solidify the decision, coz it's bloody awkward and embarassing, I visually sorta kinda pass, my rich baritone tends to give the game away though, but I don't care coz this is me and I'm totally doing this. I guess I was just suggestin that if you take the other gals advice n 'take it slow', you can still smash through goals and feel like you're makin' progress n ease the pain.
I was lucky that my wife's awesome n loves me as is, she's really helped me and actually encourages me to realise myself. I was a fool n thought she'd run, ppl may b more accepting than you think and at this stage, what's to lose? If that doesn't work, move to a bigger city. Anything's better than dead yeah?
This is my longest rant ever! Just that ya tale hit home for me. Hang in there, use the forum and good luck with everything :-)
Msg me ifya wanna shoot the breeze ever...
Kate xo

[PaulaQ]

I'm interested in reading all the comments about "happiness." Am I "unhappy" now? Will I be "happier" as a woman?

I'm not "unhappy" as a man. I am losing my mind when I present as a man - I feel enormous, overwhelming anxiety. I am miserable. It is the most amazingly painful emotions I've ever experienced. My life is a waking nightmare. Presenting as female alleviates these feelings substantially. Happy - pffft. Who cares? Seriously - who cares? I want an end to my misery.

This seems like a fairly straightforward decision. Girl mode = I feel fairly normal - better. Guy mode = I feel like hammered crap and would welcome death.

Am I missing something here? Where does "happy" enter into this? Where do I even have a choice in any of this? I sure don't see any. I'd like to find some balance short of a full transition. However, my GD seems to be getting progressively worse, and what I'd "like" doesn't seem to make one particle of difference. Not. A. One.

I think my GD is pretty severe. As for slowing down - I dunno. This is the slowest freaking medical process I've ever seen. It borders on being DIY.

We'll see if I survive until I can start to get some relief - this is by no means certain. My mind feels like it is literally falling apart.

I'm having to take this slow anyway - my wife can barely tolerate any of this. My wife can't really even handle the CD part of this. The idea I could transition is causing her emotional problems as well. Neither of us is especially strong right now.

As for my marriage being a paramount concern - this sounds cold, but it is not. I love my wife. I love my marriage. I'm no good dead or insane though. I have to save myself. I fully expect my marriage to end. Maybe she'll suprise me, but I'm not counting on this.

Changing locations is not a trivial option for me. I'm 50. I own two homes. I'm married. I'm tied down. Seriously - unwinding all that stuff is at least as slow of a process as transition itself. The only easy part of this is my job. I can do it from almost anywhere. Presuming I can keep it together well enough to actually KEEP my job. This is not certain at the moment.

[KellyJameson]

Often I think about getting or giving advice when you are in the grip of gender dysphoria.

When you are hurting everyones words are just so much noise and often the help offered makes it worse

Living with a gender identity that is opposite the body and life you are living is a handicap and aspects of this handicap do not necessarily go away with transitioning.

In my opinion you are still left with a whole lot of stuff floating around inside your head that you still have to learn to live with.

For me it was more like my brain was under pressure and it worked as a release valve so you are happy from being free and you finally experience the mind, body and your life being all on the same page so you lose that feeling of being fractured or split into pieces and experience what I call "flow".

All the pieces that were in conflict come together to make one complete theme so you have a sense of continuity, integrity, rightness versus wrongness, ect...that has always been with you since the beginning.

The thing to remember is there will still be the shit storm of life to deal with and in some ways this is increased by transitioning.

You trade one big problem for thousands of little ones that must be worked through.

It interests me how many crossdressers who identify as men want their own breasts and it is clear to me that the clothes and their bodies merge into one expression.

I personally believe that much of crossdressing is driven by male sexual desire for women and this gets turned inward where they turn themselves into the object of that which they sexually adore and desire and this is possibly merged with mother love.

I do not see this behavior as bad or good, wrong or right but I do think it creates the danger of being labelled as gender dysphoria.

I never fully appreciated how much men worship women until I joined this forum and it always strikes me as a little weird but I think that must be a part of being a man because I have seen it here and out in the world and have always been puzzled by this behavior.

In my own life women have been extremely important and irrelevant at the same time. They are irrelevant because I have never related to them as a man to a woman because I have never identified as a man where for heterosexual men who have always identified as men they are very relevant as their "other half"

Women have only been relevant to me as the mystery that would solve who I am and for me this is one of the experiences of gender dysphoria. Secondary to that I prefer their company for friendship and companionship because I have little in common with most men.

I like men but they are from another planet so often require to much work to associate with where woman are easy to be around but every once in awhile I will connect with a man and it goes deeper than anything I have ever had with a woman because they complement me on a profound level and it is here where my gender identity also lives.

Gender identity and the dysphoria has defined and touched every single female relationship I have ever had.

Gender dysphoria is dangerous all by itself, but labelling something gender dysphoria when it is not is doubly dangerous because it would be akin to trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

I would urge you to step back from any conclusions you have made about your gender identity and reflect on your life as the relationship you have had with this life as "gender identity"

Your situation has complexities because of your physical handicap that would add to the difficulties of understanding and diagnosing gender dysphoria.

I'm worried that you may jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.

This forum has taught me that it is very easy to apply the label gender dysphoria to something that seems to not have anything to do with gender identity and dysphoria at all.

Try to read about woman who have transitioned and get inside their minds and learn about their life experiences.

There are patterns and commonalities you see when you live your life in conflict with your internalized gender identity.

In my experience you do not get twenty years of happiness with gender dysphoria.

Your suffering is real but I worry that it is coming from somewhere else and transitioning will not save you but destroy you by destroying the life that you have built.

Please do not take my words as stating that you are not transsexual because only you can know that but simply the desire to give you all possible perspectives.

[elizabethamy]

This is very complicated stuff, Paula. I feel that I am in a similar place as you -- and if I knew how to sort it out I would tell you. How to decide how much of your trouble is gender and how much is Life other than gender. Is it your marriage (outside of your cd ing?) Is it your job/career/age/family? Is dressing and thinking about being a woman an escape from the life you've come to hate? (That's okay, but is it an escape because it takes you away or an escape because the life you hate is not the one you know you should live? And would gender change fix what's wrong with that life?)

I've finally seen a gender expert,and she has urged me to try to sort this very stuff out. To obsess less about why this came up late in life and more about what it means to me now and what I am going to do about it now. I've also been advised to try to understand: what helps? what do I care about most? what feeds me while I am fixing literal and metaphorical food for everyone else in my life?

I think these are really good questions. Perhaps if I can answer them I'll know what to do. I like the way they make me look at myself and my life, so without judging you or your situation, I thought I would offer them to you to see if they resonate. All the best to you --

elizabethamy

p.s I think I want to form a coalition of the "late in life," slogan: we are really stupid or really smart: we are geniuses at repression!

okay, maybe I am a woman but not a cheerleader...

[PaulaQ]

All the pieces that were in conflict come together to make one complete theme so you have a sense of continuity, integrity, rightness versus wrongness, ect...that has always been with you since the beginning.


This is what I'm looking for. I've always felt isolated, alone - unable to connect well with others, especially men. I've always hated my body. Not just the handicapped bits - all of it. I've always considered myself hideously unattractive - although I'm not.


It interests me how many crossdressers who identify as men want their own breasts and it is clear to me that the clothes and their bodies merge into one expression.

I don't identify as a man anymore, I believe. I'm *really* uncomfortable in the men's room. I've always been uncomfortable in locker rooms and stuff. I'm not especially shy about my body - believe it or not. But I'm really uncomfortable around men. I've always known I was female - but I surpressed this.


I personally believe that much of crossdressing is driven by male sexual desire for women and this gets turned inward where they turn themselves into the object of that which they sexually adore and desire and this is possibly merged with mother love.

This is essentially Blanchard's theory. I'll admit that initially, there was a sexual component to my CDing. However, compared to most of the CDers on this forum, I never did much CDing. And once I realized "yep, I'm a girl", the sexual component of CDing evaporated, literally overnight. I get no charge from doing this. Indeed, I get really terrible mental anguish and anxiety when I'm presenting as male. Presenting as female just feels right.


Your situation has complexities because of your physical handicap that would add to the difficulties of understanding and diagnosing gender dysphoria.

This is true - but I can assure you that I've extensively explored this. I've been analyzed, therapied, etc. for a long time. My handicap is no big deal. Yeah, it sucks - but I'm over it. Questions:
1. Why aren't most handicappped people as screwed up, or more so, than I seem to be?
2. Why would putting on a dress make me feel better about my handicapped legs?


I like men but they are from another planet so often require to much work to associate with where woman are easy to be around but every once in awhile I will connect with a man and it goes deeper than anything I have ever had with a woman because they complement me on a profound level and it is here where my gender identity also lives.

I can't say much about this. I have no interest in men. Wish I did - my sex life would've been better all these years. But I don't. Bummer.


Try to read about woman who have transitioned and get inside their minds and learn about their life experiences.

There are patterns and commonalities you see when you live your life in conflict with your internalized gender identity.

OK I can do that. I am also attending at TG support group, so I can talk to several women who've transitioned. So far, in talking to the group, lots of the girls identify with things I've said. This doesn't prove anything - but I seem to mostly fit in.


Your suffering is real but I worry that it is coming from somewhere else and transitioning will not save you but destroy you by destroying the life that you have built.

Please do not take my words as stating that you are not transsexual because only you can know that but simply the desire to give you all possible perspectives.

OK, well, that would be convenient for me if it were the case. I've been looking for any out from this - but I have no idea what else would cause me so much anguish that seems to respond so directly to gender related things. And at this point, I really don't see what to do except present as female *a lot* and hope that's enough. I just don't think it will be, because my feelings are getting worse. But I guess we'll see.

I've already dropped an atomic bomb on my marriage. It's iffy it will survive no matter what I do, short of completely eliminating any feminine behaviors, which seems quite improbable to me.

[Angela Campbell]

As I have said before, I am not the one to give relationship advice because I can't seem to keep a marriage or a live in relationship together myself. I can tell you that it seems that the marriage is a large part of your anxiety and pain. It is not the end of the world though when a relationship ends. It can seem like it is for a while and it does hurt deeply, but it really is not the end of life. Sometimes you just have to let go of things you cannot control. I lost the love of my life years ago and I still love her more than life itself even today after not seeing her for 15 years. I went into a deep depression for years, drank a lot and was not functional at any level for a while. It does get better with time. I would hate to see anyone go through this, but sometimes we have to let go of things that hurt to make the hurt go away. Sometimes we have to let go of things we cannot control and focus on what we can do to make life better.

[MysticLady]

I absolutely hate myself, and I hate my body. I hate my hirsute form - gettting waxed last week was an enormous relief.


My dear Paula, be content with what you have. Some of us, I believe, sometimes get caught up in the whirlwind of this lovely experience and want more hoping it'll cure our aching hearts. If you hate yourself now, do you think it'll change later no matter what you do? First and foremost LOVE yourself for who you are and be content with what you got. Once there, I believe it wouldn't matter whether you transition or not, you'll be happy.:hugs:

[arbon]

@ MysticLady - if she is TS she wont be content being a man.

[MysticLady]

I don't know. You may be right Arbon, but if she's having difficulties with loving herself now , I believe nothing will make her happy. After transition she may not completely be satisfied and will continue to search and think that she may need more to become happy and that I believe will become a " carrot on a string" that she'll never catch. Then again this is just my opinion. It'll be up to Paula to decide that.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

You are right you dont know...what on earth does your description of crossdressing as a lovely experience have to do with this?

you can have an opinion... but its not really valuable to a person that is going through something you don't understand.

its like telling a clinically depressed to just be happy

how dare you imply she will never find happiness..how dare you call her search for authenticity a "carrot on a string"

[arbon]

but if she's having difficulties with loving herself now , I believe nothing will make her happy..

Transitioning pretty much alleviated the self loathing and internal conflict when nothing else worked for me.
Maybe she is the same, maybe she is not. She will figure it out and choose her path.

[MysticLady]

I agree, but I want her to realize that we're here for her.

[DaniG]

I don't know. You may be right Arbon, but if she's having difficulties with loving herself now , I believe nothing will make her happy.

Gender dysphoria is a very real and very powerful mental force that has nothing to do with a normal person's struggle to find a healthy self-image. Take into consideration these statements that Paula has made:


"I'm not a man, at least not in my mind. I've tried hard to be one - but I don't fit in with most guys. I never have. I just don't."

"I'm not 'unhappy' as a man. I am losing my mind when I present as a man - I feel enormous, overwhelming anxiety. I am miserable."

"Presenting as female alleviates these feelings substantially."

This isn't an issue of loving herself. This is a mental crisis of anxiety and depression, which are classic results of major dysphoria. And other many other causes too, you argue. Then why are they alleviated when presenting female, I'd counter. Paula believes she's female, and I think her story backs her up.

As for the goal of happiness, I'll let Paula answer that herself.


"Happy - pffft. Who cares? Seriously - who cares? I want an end to my misery."

[PaulaQ]

I don't know. You may be right Arbon, but if she's having difficulties with loving herself now , I believe nothing will make her happy. After transition she may not completely be satisfied and will continue to search and think that she may need more to become happy and that I believe will become a " carrot on a string" that she'll never catch. Then again this is just my opinion. It'll be up to Paula to decide that.

Hi Victoria. Sure, it is possible that I'll never be happy. I have considered that outcome, and it is one of my bigger fears. However, I've never really liked myself, and I absolutely hate my body, and always have. For a long time, I attributed that to being handicapped, but honestly, it makes more sense that I'm unhappy in my body because I was born in the wrong one - I just ended up with both jokers in the deck in my hand. (handicapped and trans.)

I smile at myself in the mirror when I'm presenting as Paula. I *never* smile at myself as a male. NEVER. I know that's no guarantee of anything in particular, but I take it as a positive sign. I've gone out a couple of times en femme - and it feels GREAT. Being Paula feels natural and normal. Being male feels like I'm in a prison uniform - and I feel so much anxiety that way. I've noticed that I don't like to leave the house en drab anymore if I have time alone at home to be Paula. If my situation were a little different, and my town was a little safer, I think I'd go out as Paula most or all of the time. As it is - if my wife weren't an issue, I think I'd be out presenting as Paula *a lot*. I never want to shop en drab ever again.

As for happiness - I dunno. I am not worried about that so much. I want peace. I want to like myself. I want to stay sane, and alive. I'd take some loneliness and minor unhappiness over the absolute misery I feel right now. Seriously - it would be a good trade.

[Angela Campbell]

You just said what makes you feel better. It may be as simple as that. Everything doesn't have to be complicated.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

As for happiness - I dunno. I am not worried about that so much. I want peace. I want to like myself. I want to stay sane, and alive. I'd take some loneliness and minor unhappiness over the absolute misery I feel right now. Seriously - it would be a good trade.

This is exactly the reason we transition...

with transition peace is attainable

...if you find peace, you may also a find a path to happiness as well..

[PaulaQ]

BTW, since this has come up in another thread - how important is passing? How about being "pretty"? I don't think "pretty" is in the cards for me. I'm old (50), I have masculine features. I have very little hair of my own left on my head. I'm willing to do electrolysis, FFS, all sorts of stuff, but my guess is "pretty" is not in the cards, and "passing" may not be either. (For one thing, no matter what they do to me, I'll still be handicapped and walk *really* funny.

My physician, who's a great guy and actually very supportive points out to me that "I'm not going to make a very attractive woman."

Should I worry about that stuff? Would it affect your decision one way or the other? To me, all I can really do is do the best I can with what I've got, get whatever cosmetic procedures and surgeries that I can afford, and try to feel better about myself, even if I don't fool anybody. Or is that a recipe for failure?

[kellycan27]

You answered your own question... You've got to work with you have. Whats the alternative?

[PaulaQ]

I dunno. Cash in my chips, I guess. Not that good of an option, really.

Guess I was really asking if it would make the transition harder, if, at the end of it, you weren't quite up to the standards of say "wal-mart pretty"? That is - there are some *really* unattractive genetic women who go into the wal-mart. If you end up not even looking that good, can you still transition successfully?

I'm trying to set a realistically low bar here for myself... Hopefully it's better than that, and I end up "OK looking, but walks funny." I could deal with that.

Don't get me wrong - I'll do whatever I can do, and whatever I have to do - just wondering if being unattractive in the end makes this a whole bunch harder?

[Wildaboutheels]

Doesn't matter what we see when we look in the mirror. Our brains LIE to us every single day in so many ways in an effort to protect us from ourselves. If we don't "like" ourselves on the INSIDE, the packaging - bad, Ok, good, fabulous, whatever - isn't going to matter IMO.

It's awful easy to wonder, if some people who have lead tortured lives [whether self inflicted or not] might consider changing sexes a possible "avenue" to starting a whole new life, fresh, and summarily dismissing the past.

But what do I know...

[PaulaQ]

Well, I don't think that applies to me. I've started over once before, pretty much from scratch, when I recovered from alcoholism. So I know I can start over - but I'll be honest, starting from scratch sucked at 28, and it will NOT be better or easier at 50. The starting over fresh (since at 50, "fresh" is never gonna apply to me, lol), is definitely not one of the attractions here. Mostly I want to feel "right" and like the person who looks back at me in the mirror.

That, and I really hate being a dude.

[Nicole Brown]

As for my male life - my actual life is pretty good. I'm moderately successful, I have a wonderful marriage (at least until I came out), and I have kids that have grown up to be pretty decent people. I'll trash much of this. Oh well, this has trashed my life a couple of other times - but this will be the last time, one way or the other.

Please do not feel that you will automatically trash your kid's lives. From your statement I assume that your children are grown and possibly living on their own. I also have 2 children, well actually I have 2 adults, and both have learned to accept me and love me for who I am. People of our children's generation are quite different from those of our generation. They are far more open and accepting of diversity and they seem better equipped to handle alternate lifestyles.

When I first came out to my daughter her immediate reaction was, OK you're my Dad and I support you. Then came the period of learning to live with her statement, and now total acceptance. I often travel to Oregon to visit her and spend entire weeks with her as myself.

My son took a little longer to come around, which is normal and totally expected for a male child. Add to this fact that his wife is pregnant and expecting in July. Sure it took several long questions and answer sessions and a delayed meeting with me. But in the end the most important question, the one which actually told me that things we going to be OK, was "so what do you want the baby to call you, Grandma??"

Feel comfortable in the knowledge that you are doing what is right for you and that you are being honest to yourself. Yes, your marriage may suffer and you may well loose your wife, but you will not be living a lie any longer.

[MysticLady]

My physician, who's a great guy and actually very supportive points out to me that "I'm not going to make a very attractive woman."


Uhhrrggg. This is very wrong for your doctor to even say that to you. Who made him a judge of beauty. I'm sorry but people that think they know you better than you do yourself just "chap my hide".:Angry3:



Guess I was really asking if it would make the transition harder, if, at the end of it, you weren't quite up to the standards of say "wal-mart pretty"? That is - there are some *really* unattractive genetic women who go into the wal-mart. If you end up not even looking that good, can you still transition successfully?


What if those "unattractive" GG's decided that they're just not pretty enough to be out and about? Don't beat yourself up for the limitations you think you may have. Use those as launch steps in your life.


So I know I can start over - but I'll be honest, starting from scratch sucked at 28, and it will NOT be better or easier at 50. The starting over fresh (since at 50, "fresh" is never gonna apply to me, lol)

Im over 50 , Ive had cancer(in Aug 2010 they told me I had 3 mos left), my wife of over 20 years told me she wants a divorce, but, you know what, I love my life and things happen for a reason and Im as happy as a pig in slop:heehee:. Don't let life bring you down Sister. Ive seen your pic and your a lovely lady.:hugs:

[Angela Campbell]

It is not so hard to be pretty in some fashion. No we may never look like we want to, but there are some things you can do to enhance what you can and make a good look. I know some GG's who are really homely if they do not try but with the right clothes, hair and accessories can look quite nice. Most who do not even look "wal Mart" acceptable usually do not try or are not willing to do what it takes to look better. I did what it takes and I still am. I lost over 110 lbs, I excersized, I found the right clothes to accentuate what is good, I tanned my legs, and I started electrolysis. I am lucky genetically but it still takes work to get the best I can do.

So the question is Paula......are you willing to do the hard stuff to improve your appearance? You know you can if you really want to.

Either way I would rather be an ugly lady then a good looking man anyday.

[arbon]

Kaitlyn Michele has a post towards the end of the compromise to save marriage thread about "passing" that I think you would find interesting, she is pretty insightful.

Looks do matter, more so for us then other people probably. But it definitely is not everything either.

For myself I know that people will read me, they will realize I am trans especially if they are around me for very long. I am not accepted as a woman without question. I can't take it for granted that I am seen by others the same way I think of myself. never.

But I know who I am and I'm true to myself, i am confident and comfortable in my own skin, I am a good person, I'm not trying to fool or deceive anyone, and I am pretty dang cute when I want to be - and I think that all comes through to people, they see it is for real and that I am not a guy in a dress. That's the stuff I end up being judged by. Thats okay, at least most of the time.

[DaniG]

My physician, who's a great guy and actually very supportive points out to me that "I'm not going to make a very attractive woman."

Uhhrrggg. This is very wrong for your doctor to even say that to you. Who made him a judge of beauty. I'm sorry but people that think they know you better than you do yourself just "chap my hide".:Angry3:

Second this. Normally, I'm a fan of the unabashed truth, but in this situation, what's he trying accomplish? He still thinks he's talking to a man considering the possibility of becoming a woman. He doesn't realize he's talking to an authentic woman. He would never question a GG's appearance!

His statement can only serve to heighten Paula's depression. It's as if Paula is making a decision, and weighing the pros and cons. She isn't.


Ive seen your pic and your a lovely lady.:hugs:

2nd this 2. You look just fine. And you have a great sense of style. You don't have nearly as much to worry about as you think you do.

[Marleena]

Paula I kinda think you're putting the cart before the horse with your transitioning revelation here. Keep working with your therapist on this, it's no wonder your wife is stressed, this came on real fast.

[PaulaQ]

@ Marleena
1. I'm not so sure I'm all that confident in my therapist. Sadly, where I'm located, there isn't much professional support for anyone with gender issues. There isn't much support for hundreds of miles around me.

2. Is it just that I'm not using the right secret password or handshake to get into the TS club? Because, seriously, how much emotional distress over my gender do I need to exhibit before anyone, my therapist included, will take me seriously? I've already had one episode where I hallucinated - what else are you looking for here? I am going completely out of my mind - *I* am not setting the pace for this. This crap is just happening to me.

3. A month of conventional medical treatments for anxiety and depression has, for the most part, not done diddly-squat. We'll give this some more time, but I'm not too impressed so far.

4. I am finding it relatively easy to go out as Paula. I found it difficult today to go out as my male self. I'm becoming agoraphobic in guy mode, it would seem. This is getting worse - not better.

5. Given that conventional medication for psychiatric ailments hasn't helped much, and that crossdressing for a few hours a week doesn't seem to be cutting it, and the fact that I really, really, really am uncomfortable presenting as a male - I hate being a freaking dude! I hate my body. In fact it is driving me out of my goddamned mind! I would think that at least consideration of the possibility of some form of transition would be appropriate.

Feel free to comment on flaws in my thinking.

[Marleena]

Paula here's the thing. It seems like anytime I say anything lately to somebody new in this section they think I'm judging them. I really don't give a crap if anybody is TS or not. You live your life not me. If you say you are TS that's good enough for me. I'm sure I don't make the grade with some of the TS except nobody has told me that outright yet. I'm still going to handle this as slowly as possibe and try to limit the collateral damage for now. I don't need to prove anything to anybody here. I'm still fighting this crap because nobody in their right mind wants to be TS. Just know that if you create anxiety and depression for yourself during this process it will only delay you diagnosis.

Oh.. and I only get suspicious of others when it seems like every post they make is trying to convince us they're TS.

[PaulaQ]

Marleena - I simply wanted some clarification of "the cart before the horse". I'm definitely having emotional issues. I've been seeking treatment for them for a couple of months now, and getting pharmacological assistance for a month. I'll continue on that for several more months. My emotional concerns seem to be related to my gender, as best I can ascertain. What else should I be looking at?

I have been looking for *anything* else to hang this stuff on. But increasingly, this just feels like a cop-out, and more attempts at burying this.

If I seem to be rushing things, it's because seriously - I am depressed, I am anxious, I'm apparently agoraphobic now, and I'm suicidal. I feel like I am going out of my mind, and I'm not getting much relief from the professionals I'm consulting.

My problem is that I present as an extremely calm person, even when I'm in incredible physical or mental pain. I have years of experience at this - I more or less can't act any other way. I don't know how. It might be easier to get taken seriously if I screamed, cried uncontrollably, peed on my therapist's desk - whatever. But I don't. I know me - I will calmly soldier on until I completely collapse. I feel like that point if fairly close, to be honest.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything - I am trying to get help figuring out what in the HELL is going on with me. And so far, the "slow, gradual process of self discovery" is not doing much to alleviate my suffering, it is generally pissing me off, and it feels at odds with the super-rapid pace at which I feel I am going crazy.

Given all that - yes, I am finally seriously considering whether or not I should transition. My emotional problems seem to be gender related. I've been trying to find ways to avoid even THINKING about this - but after spending about 20 hours a week ago fairly well out of my mind, I think I have to at least consider this as a possibility.


I'm still fighting this crap because nobody in their right mind wants to be TS.
1. I'm not in my right mind - I am trying to tell you this.
2. I don't want to be TS either. But it seems increasingly like I am.
3. After my breakdown from a week before this last one, I am increasingly reaching the conclusion that fighting this is probably going to be fatal to me.


Just know that if you create anxiety and depression for yourself during this process it will only delay you diagnosis.

I am not creating anxiety and depression. I am suffering from it. It is getting progressively worse. I've been suffering from it for about 7-8 months now. Do you even get a diagnosis out of all this crap? As best I can tell, the process goes like this:

Me: "I think I'm having gender dysphoria"
Everyone else: "nope"
Me: "Seriously - I'm having gender issues"
Everyone else: "nope"
Me: "Really - what about...? (Doesn't matter what I say)
Everyone else: "nope"
Me: "I AM GOING CRAZY!"
Everyone else: "nope your fine"
Me: "What the **** is wrong with me?!?!"
Everyone else: "nobody can answer that but you!"
me: "So again - seriously - WHAT ELSE SHOULD I BE CONSIDERING AT THIS POINT?"
Everyone else: "You should consider why you are so emotionally disturbed"
Me: "WHAT DO YOU THINK I'VE BEEN DOING?"
Everyone else: "you seem fine"

Oh the hell with all this. I'm just going to deal with the fact that I'm obviously going to mentally self-destruct before I figure this out or anyone, including the "professionals" I deal with, take me seriously. Hopefully I'll stay employed during all that - because god knows I don't get much work done anymore, I'm too screwed up to even think straight.

[Badtranny]

Oh.. and I only get suspicious of others when it seems like every post they make is trying to convince us they're TS.

I don't know that I could have said that any better.

Paula, the regulars here don't know what to say. We sympathize on a human level, but speaking for myself, I can't even begin to relate to your experience. I don't like the reference to a "TS handshake" though. We have all gone through some real cruddy stuff just to be free and the only time we ever refer to ourselves as TS is here in this forum. I don't know what's going on in Kait's head or heart, but I have a pretty good idea of the joy and pain she's experienced during and after transition. I have had some epic rap battles with many of the TS girls on this board but you'll notice that we all seem to have each other's backs when the dogs come out because we ALL share one profound experience; transition.

I was just in Target tonight and as I was picking up some Q-tips and makeup sponges, a young couple walked by and the dude said "that's disgusting". Was he talking about me? I don't know, but I can tell you for sure that we would all be better off if HRT screwed up our hearing a little bit.

Don't be concerned about the rest of us accepting you as TS, nobody cares. I've been here for a couple of years now and I don't remember any of us ever asking for the secret handshake. To be TS is to literally travel alone and be comfortable doing so. Eventually, you will meet up with fellow travelers.

[Marleena]

Paula I really feel sorry for you. I know the diagnosis and help takes time but they can't make mistakes and you have to be of sound mind, that was my point. This is my second bout with GD so I know a little about it. During my first bout I was so desparate I took my wife's old birth control pills and that's nuts!! It's a good thing they ran out or I could've killed myself, being a nurse she said they contained hormones and that was all I knew.. Anyways I'll shut up now because it appears I don't know how to help you.

[PaulaQ]

I apologize for the "handshake remark" that was unfair, and unkind to the folks on this forum. I know that everyone who's transitioned has gone through a tremendous amount of personal pain, both before they transitioned, during the process, and during their everyday life afterwards. I apologize sincerely for that remark - it was beneath me, and totally wrong. This isn't a good excuse, but I am having a terrible day. My anxiety has been pretty much "shaking like a leaf" all day, despite popping xanax. I had great difficulty today getting up the courage to get out of my car to go into bestbuy to buy a $15 memory card. Not en femme - but en drab.

I am obviously on the wrong forum. I am trying to figure out what is wrong with me. I have little confidence in the professionals who are trying to help me. They are simply the best ones I can find anywhere remotely in my area. (My therapist is 100 miles away, to give you some idea.) My physician is sympathetic, but he's pretty clueless. (He admits this.) There is one dedicated gender therapist within 200 miles of me, as near as I can tell. There are NO psychologists or other MDs who specialize in these issues within several hundred miles of me. I am probably in the worst possible location to be going through whatever it is that I'm going through.

I apologize for wasting your time.

[Marleena]

You're not wasting my time! Find another therapist even if you have to go 200 miles. It's about you and getting the help you need.

[Wildaboutheels]

Paula, I have followed this entire thread closely. You've made it crystal clear right from the start that you have decided that total up front, perhaps brutal honesty with your wife is how this is going to be and that the chips will fall where they may. Unless I am mistaken that IS what you expect from the ladies here in posting your story? That they be honest and leave the sugar coating and a$$ kissing to the other threads? I don't see that anyone is not listening or trying to mislead you in any way. But there is now a consistent recurring theme here from many who have been through it/are going through it to simply SLOW DOWN.

That is not an unreasonable attitude is it? You ARE 50 and have already been through so much.

[PaulaQ]

If transition is so tough and so horrible, and is going to be worse than what I'm already going through, why is "or die?" such a bad option? I am at the end of my rope. I do not want to live feeling this way any longer.

As best I can tell, nobody knows what in the hell is wrong with me. And at best if it is GD, and needs treatment for that, it takes months and months and months and months and years to accomplish that. I don't think I'll make it.

[emma5410]

I had to transition. It has been sixteen weeks now. Living as a man had become unbearable. Some of the things you say sound familiar. Are you in the same place I was? I do not know. I do not know you. I do not know if transitioning is right for you. I am not even completely sure I am doing the right thing. It is your life and only you can decide.

I can understand it must be frustrating when people say slow down when you are in pain and desperate for a solution. Transitioning eased a lot of the pain I had but the problems did not stop for me. I have just found a whole new raft of them. I really had no idea of what transitioning would involve. No matter how many threads you read, how much time you spend on the internet or how many books you read you really have no idea what you are facing when you take that step. Melissa calls it a 'tranny grenade'. That is exactly what it is. It will blow your life apart. But that is not even the worse thing. It is the psychological problems that you face. The constant self doubt.

I hated being a man. The pretence, self hate etc. But living as a trans woman is no bed of roses either. I did not have the complications of a wife. My family and co-workers have been great but it is still a struggle.

Maybe that is just me. Perhaps I am just weak. Perhaps I am not really trans. Just one of the thoughts that torture me when I am trying to gather the courage to face the world as a woman. You may be different. Transitioning my be plain sailing for you.

I felt I was on a sinking ship before I went full time. I had to jump. It was not brave, as so many people tell me, it was survival. All I would say now, having jumped, is do not do it until the water is up to your neck and you really have no choice.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Paula

I take you seriously..

you have to learn to ignore the people that don't know what they are talking about...this is not about just loving yourself as a human being...this is about a very harrowing experience which is the ramping up of your gender dysphoria..

you need to learn to grow an even thicker skin that you already have because if you've made it this far as male, there are not alot of people going to be happy with all this...

fwiw, i was "misdiagnosed" by therapists..disbeleived by people close to me and crossdressing friends that were gently trying to help me..i was also helped by transsexual friends that at first seemed brutal and unfair about how i thought...

so get tough..get serious about concrete real life steps that you can take ...make plans and change plans as needed... even if that means getting more confident with your therapist and making demands that cause discomfort for you...

You are so right that this HAPPENS TO YOU.....there are so many conversations here where people try to feminize themselves into transsexuality and its fine for them...but reading them i always figure they will blaze out...because they dont know what it really is to change your entire life....they don't understand that this crap just happens..or they talk about how they can control it, how they will negotiate it, and sometimes that works for a time too..but it only works up until the point you are talking about where "Crap just happens to you"...

so i totally take you seriously..i want you to work hard to figure this out and decide your next concrete steps to live your best quality of life...you have your own unique situation and your own challenges...transitioning into a female role is a long process that requires alot of patience (even at our advanced age...i started around 47)..

i want you to try to live your current life in a very focused day by day mode that allows you to think straight about your real life options.. whether that means thinking about your finances or your family, electrolysis or hrt, or even a more direct and assertive stance in therapy, its up to you...

the secret handshake ?? its called doing something to live an authentic life and the secret is that its got nothing to do with anybody else but you!!

pls hang in there!!



we are not therapist

[PaulaQ]

So I levelled with my wife today, telling her that my meds had finally kicked in, and I was no longer suicidally depressed, and suffering from panic attacks. I'm not feeling awesome, I still have GD, and will for quite a long time, and I'm sure I'm still suffering from emotional problems, but I'm out of the crisis for now.

But I'm feeling increasingly more positive about transition - I am a woman, and want to live as one. I hate being a guy. I'm not ashamed of what I am anymore.

So that's what I told her. This was no surprise to her - she's long felt I was fooling myself thinking that I'd find some way NOT to transition.

It'll take a while to completely unwind legally and financially, but I'm quite certain now that for all intents and purposes, our life as a married couple is over. We'll still do stuff together until she can't bear it any longer. She still wants physical contact for now - but not intimacy with me. She can't bear that. We are a sorry pair in that regard - she needs me but can't bear me right now. As for me? I have no libido whatsoever. None. My junk still works - I just don't care about it. I can't even think about intimacy right now.

Maybe she'll always be able to bear some form of friendship. But it may take her a very long time to be able to handle seeing me as a woman - possibly longer than it will take me to make the physical changes. (And that will be a long time!)

I'd hoped it wouldn't turn out like this - but the truth is, I can't live my life as a lie anymore. I can't stand lying to people about who I am. I don't even care if they accept me. F them if they don't. I can't lie to spare their feelings anymore - thinking about all those decades of lies makes me just want to vomit them all out of me. I just don't care what they think.

Sadly, I DO care what my wife thinks. Which is why doing this to her hurts so much. I know I'm not really doing this TO her, bad stuff happens to good people. Still, I hate like hell what this is putting her through. My god, I wish I could spare her. But I can't. I can't lie anymore, even to spare the one I love the most. I just can't do it.

[Ashlyn Brooke]

Paula, You have my complete support in whatever YOU choose to do. I chose my path on my own. Not exactly the textbook approach but at almost 50 and starting my life over due to other circumstances, I don't need to live forever. My back is going to cripple me at some point (hopefully not for a few years) and I've spent enough time working nursing homes to know exactly how I DON"T want to live. So if I can transition, love my life for whatever is left and have a great time, then that's what I'm going to do. I've been around enough drag girls that didn't rely on therapists and doctors and look better than a whole lot of GGs. Keep your head up and your heart strong.

[Christine.Lolita]

After reading this thread I feel very sad that you and so many of us have to go through all of this pain. I am just beginning to feel it and hope it does not take me to the point where ending my life would be the better option than continuing to live.
Paula just keep on fighting.

[Sephina]

Hang in there Paula, just know that there are others out there that feel the same way you do, including myself i am just like you i knew something was wrong with me in a sense like there was a peice of the puzzle that was missing in my life i felt incomplete for a long time and i couldnt figure out why ive always subconciously hated myself, my body and who i am although i learned to cope with it cause i thought i had to but i found out that i can live a life as a woman and thats all ive ever wanted i am on the path to transition despite my Dad the person i love most in my life that i might lose but i have to be me i cant live for anyone else and you shoudlnt either be true to yourself and others that truly love you will be true to the real you dont give up i am here for you.

[josee]

Paula, glad to hear you are feeling better. I wish you well with your relationship with your spouse.

[Angela Campbell]

Sometimes it has to get bad before it gets better.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Paula this is a heartwrenching moment in many of our lives. Some people spend all their energy avoiding it...perhaps thats what you've been doing...

hopefully you will find that just deciding will free some of your mind and energy to develop a positive mindset that will comfort those around you, even your wife if she will let you...

for what its worth, its your life..its her life...you can try to stay together...altho my wife moved on very quickly, we are now as close as we ever where, and there are times when we both wonder if we could have come to an "Arrangement"

[mary something]

My problem is that I present as an extremely calm person, even when I'm in incredible physical or mental pain. I have years of experience at this - I more or less can't act any other way. I don't know how. It might be easier to get taken seriously if I screamed, cried uncontrollably, peed on my therapist's desk - whatever. But I don't. I know me - I will calmly soldier on until I completely collapse. I feel like that point if fairly close, to be honest.



Paula I've read this entire thread over from the beginning this morning and the quoted comment is the only statement you've made so far where you asserted what your problem definitely is. I'm not saying that you are or aren't TS. I'm imploring you to listen to yourself here. I'm familiar with dealing with handicaps. My situation is not the same as yours (nor is it related to gender expression) in public I feel the constant attention that an unmistakeable handicap causes. I feel this gives me some perspective on this, particularly about the recognition of how we deal with this issue.

When we are the focus of an inordinate amount of attention due to something beyond our control it is not uncommon to seek equilibrium by trying to find a balance. When almost EVERYONE looks at you differently, we learn to provide very little to no stimulus for them to react to beyond the initial recognition. It is by projecting back to the person a centered, calm aura and a look that says "I am fine" that we find balance in this situation. This turns a stare into a glance, and relieves our discomfort. (I'm speaking for me only, but have noticed this about many people in this situation before)

Please reread your quote above now. Is there a link here? It seems to me there could be.

Habits are so hard to break, especially those from our childhood before our brains were matured and our thought processes were those of an adult. You have been socially conditioned to project one feeling while feeling something quite different inside for a long time. When you wrote about yourself and used words such as sneaky, underhanded, and clever perhaps it reflects your ability to not emote your feelings? To not expose yourself socially, to mislead people about your feelings? I'm not judging, please no offense is meant. Is it possible that this internalized coping mechanism is part of the reason why your anxiety builds and builds due to the trouble you're having expressing your emotions until it is unmanageable and spews out without control?

I can't see through your eyes or feel your thoughts, only offer my perspective. I am not the only person in this thread that has noticed that you seem to seek permission for your conclusion about what your feelings mean. Let me emphasize that I have no preference at all whether you are ts or not. However your writing does give myself and others the definite impression that you are trying to convince us or yourself. I'm simply addressing the need for approval and permission, not making a judgement on whether you are ts or not, it's obvious gender issues of some sort are at play.

No one can give you permission or acceptance except yourself. There is no safety or security in any other label than being simply "you". It is very, very difficult to know who you are if you first have difficulty expressing yourself. Self-expression is how we learn the difference between temporal and ever-changing feelings and who we really are. WE ARE NOT OUR FEELINGS, but we can never know who we are if we can't express our feelings and look for patterns and causes.

I mention this because in one of your previous posts you said that you had been happy for 20 years previously. This is not a common thing to hear in a transsexual's narrative. Nor does it mean that you might not be ts.

I think it's important to narrow your focus to the fact that altering your gender expression aleviates the distress you feel in public since you state that you are agoraphobic as a male yet are comfortable in public as a female. Do people call you ma'am and genuinely see you as a woman or as a cross dresser or transsexual? You are perceived differently and this difference makes you feel good. For whatever reason this gives you relief from your anxiety and that is a good thing.

Presenting as a woman in public and feeling less anxiety does not necessarily mean you are TS. Doesn't mean you aren't either. I urge you to take Kaitlyn's advice and work on concrete steps to solve your problems incrementally, Rome wasn't built in a day and you won't become a woman overnight, it is a long process that starts with simple actions. Harry Benjamin offered a very keen insight in his book that I have used to keep a clear head during what has been a long process getting to the point I am at now
"There is hardly a person so constantly unhappy (before sex change) as the transsexual. Only for short periods of his (or her) life, such as those rare moments of hope when a conversion operation seems attainable or when, successfully assuming the identity of a woman in name, dress, and social acceptance, is he able to forget his misery."

If this applies to you then Kaitlyn's advice is perfect to help you make this SEEM ATTAINABLE and your anxiety should decrease. No matter how many people on this fourm or in your life say "I think you are TS" it still won't seem attainable to you until you quit looking for permission from anyone other than yourself. You have mentioned a couple times in this thread that your wife fully expects you will transition and I found that interesting that you wrote it as you did. If it's a case of convincing her that you are ts to get her permission then please address this with a therapist because this need could cause other problems for you later. Can you work with a therapist and learn better communication methods to solve the problem in your quote at the top? You need a clear head right now. If you're still feeling anxiety it doesn't mean that you aren't TS, but there are other things to work on that will be easier now than later.

I encourage you to find a gender therapist who can help you, and be completely and totally emotionally bare with them. There are many therapists who will work over skype and perhaps this would be the best way to begin because it is much easier to be vulnerable to a webcam and a stranger you will never meet in person.

This is only meant to try and help and to raise points that hadn't been addressed yet. I want to make clear that it is only my conjecture and may or may not be true. I hope that you find a path to peace and happiness no matter the destination.

Love,
Mary

[PaulaQ]

Thanks Mary. Actually I've been working with a therapist, and while I wrote what I thought my problem was, above, I really think, now that I'm a little more clear-headed, that my problems are these:
1. I am pretty much a classic 50 year old TS. I was reading Anne Vitale's book last night, and her example of someone my age could've been me, except the anxiety disorder of the patient in the book is worse than mine. (Which is horrible to consider, honestly.)
2. My GD is causing panic disorder, and something like generalized anxiety disorder. I'm *not* thinking clearly. (Well, I think my meds are finally helping now, and acceptance that I'm TS is also helping. But when I started this thread, I was NOT in good shape!)
3. I'm actually pretty stable for someone in my condition. That's not implying that I'm in good shape at all - just that I could be way worse than I am. However, one of the symptoms of anxiety disorders is the feeling that you are going crazy. I had that in spades.,

I'm not really looking for permission from anyone to be TS. Quite the opposite - this has been an awful thing to go through, and it will end my marriage. I keep hoping to find a way for this to not be true. I guess maybe I'd hoped for some confirmation that "yep, sounds like your TS" because I've had so much trouble accepting this about myself.

But the fact is, I am TS. I've known this since I was a kid. My family, my hosptilization, and especially my Dad made it pretty clear I needed to suppress this stuff, and gave me lots of tools to do it. I naturally look to accomodate others first. (This adds to my anxiety disorder, btw.)

But there is no longer any doubt in my mind that I'm TS, and that I'm going to pursue transition. My physical handicap is convolved in this, and has made diagnosis of this difficult through my life, and given me an awesome scapegoat for denial to use.

As for my happy marriage - I dunno, how many people do you know that have happy marriages for 20 years, TS or not? Like 75% of 'em right? No? Way lower? Oh, so maybe that is unrelated. As for "happy", I have been less lonely and had a good friendship with my wife. She doesn't really understand me though, and never has. Is that happiness? I actually feel "happy" presenting as Paula. It took me a while to realize that's what I felt - I don't think I've ever really experienced a lot of happiness with myself before. Nevertheless, my marriage has been the only remotely happy part of my life. It's just been mostly all about my wife. I think even she recognizes this now. I have excellent problem solving and relationship skills - particularly when coupled with giving in a LOT to what she wants. (Not always - but A LOT.)

And since I've really accepted this, and have started to really plan how to transition (I have a long way to go, to be sure!) I really do feel a lot better. I think Kaitlyn's advice was right on the money. And yes, I've been trying to avoid this all my life. Why wouldn't I? Hey, I was born with a penis - I'm supposed to be a guy, right? My Dad made it extremely clear, at a young age, that he'd brook no sissies! Not on his watch! And where he left off, so many others made this clear.

So I've lived my life as a lie, trying to please others, and hide something about myself that I felt ashamed of - something awful. I'm not ashamed anymore though. And I'm going to take steps to finally live the truth. This is hard though - lying is second nature to me - learning how NOT to lie is surprisingly hard. I'll get there though.

[mary something]

I am happy that you are making steps that are making you feel better. You will find a lot of support here. I encourage you to still listen to yourself in the quote I posted only because I do feel those words are authentic no matter the cause. When the euphoria of acceptance wears off any issues that you have will still be there and noticeable again. I also caution you that being in a one-sided relationship for 20 years is not the same thing as having strong relationship skills. Placating someone else continually at your own expense stunts relationships, although it may seem now that it will be easier after a future separation there will still be a void to fill. I only speak in cautious tones because 3 months ago you were struggling to come to terms with being a cross dresser. Best regards and don't let your struggle become your identity.

[PaulaQ]

Hi Mary, I do think you have a point. My condition and many things about my childhood make it very hard for me to say what I want, and to express emotions before I just can't hold them in anymore. I'm sure that's what is happening in this case. I do believe my gender issues are real. I have been trying to dodge this my whole life, I can't dodge it anymore.

My relationship hasn't been totally one sided. I'm not a doormat, and I'm in charge, and my wife tries to make me happy. Problem is, I really never let her in close, rarely told her what I wanted.

As for relationship skills, you have a point, but I can assure you that in 20 years together, there have been many crises, all of them solved, most of them mutually. That takes some skill. The big problem that is one sided is that I'm supposed to be the hoover dam of the relationship- this giant invulnerable structure that keeps everything under control. I'm no longer able to do this - she can't depend on me to always provide all the emotional support in the relationship.

I think I'll have to learn to fix these tendencies. But look, I'm liable to end up as a trans lesbian. I don't have high hopes that I'll find a relationship again. I'm expecting some personal loneliness and lack off a sex life as one of the prices I'll pay. Maybe I'll be wrong, but right now, I can't even think about another relationship. I don't want another one right now.

I will think more about what you've said, I think you are being insightful Mary, and I thank you for this.

If I ever have another relationship, I need to be able to be real, share my actual feelings, and not hide. That will be hard to learn.

[mary something]

Now would be a great time to start working on those things while your with someone who is in a relationship that loves you. I don't mean talk about gender all the time, but start building your relationship skills today. Lots of resources out there or even your therapist. It will only help your transition.

[Jackie7]

Paula, this has been amazing thread, thank you for sharing such difficult stuff with us. Your struggle brings back in full detail the time in my life when my then-wife and I had to sort out the same questions and issues (in the end I did not transition, but we divorced anyway - by then we'd simply had enough of each other). And Mary, thank you for your sage remarks.

My ex-wife once told me she was grateful to finally get everything onto the table, her issues as well as mine, it helped her to accept the situation and plan her own future. While setting yourself free, you may be making a space where she can do the same for herself.

[mary something]

Paula, I could have written exactly what you have in this thread almost verbatem, four years ago. The path I have taken since then is not the right way or the wrong way, but it is an option. My wife and I divorced. Notice Jackie's comment also. I did regular therapy for a couple years, did gender therapy for a year almost, therapist recommended hrt for me, that was a year ago, scheduled an apointment to the endo a LONG time ago and my apt comes up in July.

I still haven't even started hrt yet. Know what? I'm happier and more at peace with myself and the world around me than I have ever imagined being. I completely restructured my life. I have a job will be unaffected by transition now that will see me through as much or as little physical transition as I wish to do. I'm in a relationship with a gg and engaged to her, as a woman. She knows that I am a woman, and wants nothing more than for me to have a body that matches my mind. We just purchased a house together. I really feel like I am living the dream.

None of this would have been possible for me if I hadn't screwed my head on straight first. I was a mess, honey, you're a mess right now too.

Do whatever you have to do to make your head clear. If you need to wear a blouse or a dress to be able to get out of your car in public, then just do it. If your wife asks you why you're wearing it just tell her that you've been having a lot of social anxiety and this helps for whatever reason. She is not your therapist or support group. Work on being an effective communicator with her and START SMALL. Make a habit of listening twice as much as speaking. Focus on saying exactly what you mean and meaning exactly what you say, don't let anything come out of your mouth until you are sure it follows that rule. This will be good practice for fitting in socially as a woman.

Paint your toe nails today. Get your ears pierced before tomorrow night. Find a nice bracelet that is super cute and feminine, wear it a lot. If anyone at work asks about the earrings just tell them that you have always wanted them and now you finally don't care what anyone thinks.

Keep a journal everyday before bed writing exactly how you feel. Do not share it with your wife right now. Write at least a few paragraphs every day. Don't analyse, just record your feelings from the day, it's okay if they're contradictory.

Keep posting here and going to therapy. Do this for a month and try not to talk to your wife about gender. Get your head clear and just work on making sure every day is a good normal day. Start making your transition plans. Don't completely blow up your marriage today in order to release all those gender dysphoric feelings, you can always split amicably in a few days, weeks, or months. Buy a book on relationship skills and effective communication and read at least a chapter every day.

This is my opinion based on my experience only. You have gender issues to sort out nodoubt, but you also have lots of other issues to sort out right now too. You need to take a crash course on who you are and what your needs are and how to get them met effectively . You need to learn how to pay attention to your feelings and then analyse them later and look for patterns to know yourself. Consider all this part of the transition and it starts now.

If your wife asks you if you are still planning on transitioning just simply tell her that you feel a very, very strong urge to and that you're taking a little time and making some small changes to explore those feelings. Aplogize to her for any discomfort it causes her and tell her that you're just trying to be healthy and take care of yourself.

This my advice, just going off intuition here. Take it or leave it, modify it, whatever makes sense to you. I'm not a therapist, I'm not an expert, this is not the ony way to do this, other aproaches may be better, this is just what seems right to me. there is nothing I've said that isn't easily undone.

[Badtranny]

WOW.

That's good stuff Mary. :-)

[mary something]

thanks Misty ;), only new to the forums unfortunately. Hopefully it's good stuff, only criteria is if it makes Paula feel better

[PaulaQ]

Thanks Mary. I'll take your advice I think. I will definitely look into a book on relationship skills. Have any suggestions for a good one? (I can ask around, too - my therapist I'm sure knows of some too.) Believe it or not, I've had 2-3 years of regular therapy after sobering up. Uh, you should've seen me before... :)

I am most certainly overdue for some retail therapy. I've been wanting to pierce my ears for some time. (Need earrings!!!) What I'd really like, too, is a cute woman's watch. I love wrist watches. But all my watches are men's. I have some fairly nice watches - they are super-masculine, mostly. (I have one, that is small for a man's watch, that would maybe work - only because my hands are so large.) My toenails are painted at least. :)

I'm thinking about going out for a makeover / makeup lesson. I have a lot to learn about presentation, and I think that would be fun, and help. Next time I go out shopping, I'm going en femme.

Hey, I'm really not agoraphobic. I talked to my therapist about this, and really, the weekend I thought I was, I was just having plain old ordinary panic attacks. That stuff will really screw up your thinking though. I've gone out a bunch of times in guy mode since then, it's been fine. (My medicine finally kicked in, thank god for Buspar.)

[mary something]

Okay I'm glad that the panic attacks presenting as agoraphobia is not an issue right now.

As for relationship and communication skills, I'm not sure the book matters as much as the execution. First focus on recognizing the emotional wall that you have slowly and unconsciously built from earliest childhood. It's difficult to recognise the forest from the trees sometimes. The defense mechanisms that you have learned up to this point in your life do not work well, that is why you are feeling so much despair at times. Until you are able to become aware of how your ego protects your identity then it will be very difficult to really connect and communicate with others authentically. You will be in the loneliest place imagineable, it will feel like you're stranded at sea and water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink. As these feelings build over time you will reach a point like where you were a week or two ago, and it will overwhelm you and cause damage to the relationships that matter the most to you.

Gender issues are separate but also connected to this and played a part in you eventually sitting in that car unable to go into the store and buy a memory card without being dressed. You have to work on both issues simultaneously to really heal yourself.

http://www.motherservice.org/Essays/strategies_to_overcome_ego.htm

This is how you start to dismantle the emotional wall that is killing you, it is necessary to start here when developing communication and relationship skills. Start with the relationship to yourself. Then we will branch out to other people. print this article out and read it every day. Relationship skills and communication skills are useless without first starting here. The greater extent that you are able to practice this the easier it will be to work on the gender stuff.

As for gender issues, I really think you should go get your ears pierced ASAP! If you can declare yourself a woman and TS, then it is simply a trivial manner to go ahead and do this. I really think it will help make the gender feelings subside for a while, and really would like for you to go ahead and do it please.

I understand that you are feeling better now. Nothing has changed except you have released some of the internal pressure onto your environment and the meds have helped some. Do not lose your motivation now that you are feeling a little bit better :) the goal is not to ever be there again. I want for you to be happy and peacefull inside.

[arbon]

Hi Paula,

You look nice in your avatar :)

Ear piercing - you'll love it!

[MysticLady]

Hello Paula:hugs:

I just wanted to put a bug in your ear:heehee:. You look wonderful. I don't see a need for your bad feelings at all. I truly admire your courage in posting a picture of yourself for all of us to finally see you and appreciate you w/ our sense of sight. I see your a person of courage in moving forward and I'm well pleased w/ you.
Plus I love it when I can see who my friends are:hugs::hugs:

[mary something]

Yes I LOVE the pic too! So sorry that I hadn't mentioned that yet! Was all caught up in my own head lol :)

[PaulaQ]

Hey Mary, I talked with my wife about piercing my ears, and she kinda freaked out. It's a small thing, so I'll give her a little more time to adjust. Her feeling is this will be noticeable in our tiny redneck town. I don't really care, but it isn't worth a big fight. I've told her I'll do it anyway, after I come out to our kids.

In the meantime, I'll start electrolysis, and possibly voice coaching. I'm also going to go out more as Paula, and try to befriend some of the girls in my TG group.

My wife and I have a bunch of relationship and especially financial stuff to sort out. So I'm picking my fights.

[laurie01]

I had my ears pierced 15 years ago and no one notices. I would say get them pierced and if your around a group of people you feel uneasy then just take the studs out. As far as making a transition goes, 3 things should be done first before any hrt. Remove any facial hair, develop a female voice and have a tracheal shave which is usually needed. The facial hair removal will take a while whether one uses laser or electrolysis. During that time good to work on a female voice which both take about almost a year. The hardest part of transition is not being passible. This usually happens during the middle of transition. Doing these 3 things before hand will eliminate most of the middle of transition. I myself am unsure of full transition but I am doing these 3 things right now to get them out of the way and I could still be in boy mode without a problem if I want. Its just a thought Paula.

[PaulaQ]

Thanks Laurie, I know the objection to piercing my ears is silly. My wife is struggling with me being trans, but us really doing pretty well. It ain't worth fighting over. I'm not really concerned who does or doesn't know. I'm tired of lying about who I am. I'll do it a while longer for my wife.

Sounds like my first two priorities (Facial hair and voice) are right though.

[TeresaCD]

Picking your battles - wise move.
Love hearing how you are getting on, growing and moving forward!

[mary something]

thanks for the update Paula! Don't worry about the earring thing, it wasn't a test or anything like that, but an opportunity to maybe become a little bit more self-aware of the forces that are acting upon you right now that can be hard to discern while you are in conflict with yourself internally. Most importantly are you journaling your feelings and trying to avoid any analysis or conclusions? If not then START RIGHT NOW. The more self awareness you can learn right now the easier all of this will be to navigate. You need to learn the habit of separating your feelings from your identity and ego as soon as possible to do this.

Ask yourself why it is easier to come out to your wife as an emergent transsexual, to tell her that you are a woman and not a man, than it is to go and get your ears pierced without asking for her permission? Does she need permission from you to change her earrings or get her ears pierced? I'm NOT judging you here at all, I would have done the exact same thing, and probably did in my first marriage. Being able to answer this question while being completely honest with yourself is a clue to more self awareness right now.

If you are familiar with the common threads on the crossdresser forums here then you'll occasionally see a thread started by a curious SO that is a gg. If they are here trying to gather information they'll give a short description of themselves and the relationship. Then ask advice from the members usually in a way that pertains to making the relationship stronger and eliminating deception, lies, and confrontation that occurs when this issue is brought into focus.

What is the most common reply that many of the cd'ers will say to a wife or gf? They will say there is nothing wrong with boundaries, boundaries and firm rules will save your relationship, tell him what he can and can't do and you'll both be much happier for it.
ed s
I have never really identified with that sentiment becuase I don't want to be in a relationship where I'm being treated like a child. You'll see them using the analogy to a kid in a candy store and pink fog a lot. Pink fog means they aren't responsible for their actions and need someone to reign them in, and maybe that's true for them.

Are you unintentionally setting that dynamic up with your wife? You can't transition while acting like a crossdresser. The more self-awareness you can get about what you need the better able you will be to manage yourself and experience the least amount of pain necessary going through this process.

For example in my life I'm about to start hrt soon. I've read many, many accounts of the potential problems that this can cause for SO's in a relationship when physical changes occur. I've done everything I can to allow my SO to already adjust to some of these changes beforehand so that it will be less hitting her all at once later. One of these changes is skin texture softening. For the last 6 months I have been moisturing all the time, at least 3 times daily. My hands and arms are as soft as hers, so is my face. It happened so gradually that neither one of us noticed it until it was quite apparent. Then when I bring up hrt and mention that one effect might be softer skin she says "that's cool, your skin is already really soft and I like that". I've tried to do the same thing with smell because I know hrt will alter my body scent. I know I'm not the type of woman that's gonna be comfortable with anyone, including myself, smelling the stank of the day, you know? For at least the last year I have used philosophy body lotion (pure grace) and that is what I smell like all the time. When I wear a scent on top it's either Aqua di gio (spelling?) or Calvin Klein Euphoria. Sure hrt will make some additional changes for my scent but when I mentioned to my SO that my body scent may change somewhat from hrt she was fine with it cause she likes how I smell now and never smells my bo anyway.

The point is that people are only capable of processing change at a slow pace. The more you can manage and plan out your transition by self-navigating yourself the easier it will be.

I think I read that you're an engineer on another thread, that is excellent because it means you have an analytical mind that is great at logical problem solving. You need to tame it and make it work for you though. You are a body in motion, but because you are experiencing an internal conflict that cannot be ignored you have experienced a lot of distress lately. You need to first know what vectors are acting upon you (build self awareness). Then we need to know the viscosity of the medium you are traveling though (how much resistance from your environment you will face). What can be done to alter your aerodynamics to fly more smoothly (how will you manage yourself, like a crossdresser or like a transitioner?). Then you need to chart your course (confirm your identity through experience to build confidence in your goal, pay attention to the sisters that have done this before you and try to avoid their mistakes).

I have come out to two SO's so far. I can tell you from experience it is much easier for a SO to accept that you maybe are transsexual if you already smell like a girl, wear feminine jewelry occasionally, have your ears pierced, etc. The severity of their reaction has a lot to do with how "male" your presentation is compared to what they consider a "feminine" presentation. And wives generally will put up with a crossdresser but a transsexual not so much anyway.

Most important right now, how did it make you feel being asked to get your ears pierced? This is not a tranny test, no wrong answers, just a chance to understand yourself better that is all

[DaniG]

Paula, I agree with picking your battles. I'm working on this balance right now myself, as you well know.

However, when I get mine done, I plan on wearing clear plastic posts when in drab.

Clear Posts at Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Plastic-Earrings-Findings-Nickel/dp/B008C1XL96)

Then nobody will notice for sure - until I'm ready, that is.

[PaulaQ]

@Mary

Re: how'd it make me feel to ask to get my ears pierced?

Actually, I thought it was a fabulous idea. I'm not ashamed or afraid of what others may think, except for my wife. I'm trying to give her some time to adjust. I have a faint hope we'll somehow survive this. It isn't likely, but she is trying HARD to come to terms with the idea that I'm becoming a woman. (I haven't yet disabused her of that misconception, I AM A WOMAN, my body needs to be made congruent with my gender.)

Which brings me too:

Re: why did you need her permission, does she need yours?

My wife changed her hair style completely this week. I like it, but she didn't consult me of course.

So why am I ceding control of my earlobes to her? Because while some will notice me with earrings, it isn't that weird anymore, and she's being silly. One of the big things that is bothering her, we've talked about this, and it comes down to her wanting to feel in control of the situation to some extent. She is 100% dependent on me, and I'm changing rapidly. This totally freaks her out.

This is why she's outed me to a bunch if people, but worries when I out myself. (I've outed myself to 4 people, way fewer than her.) I believe she wants to feel some control over this. She knows she can't stop it - I've been clear and firm on this. It is transition or death.

But if I can give her a feeling of a little control over life, well, I think its helping her. We went shopping together for the first time today. She helped me pick some clip on earrings, and we bought handbags together. She used my name for the first time today. These are big steps.

For my part, I've made it clear that as I transition, we are going to get her career started again, and get some financial stuff in order so that if we reach a point where we must be apart, she'll be in enough control of her life to be able to do that, and not completely depend on me. I fully intend to help here, and I hope we don't part, but we probably will, so as I transition, she needs to gain back control over her own destiny. That is ultimately the only control that will make her feel better. I've made this clear to her too.

Transition is a selfish process. I will ultimately reach a point where compromise is impossible. My body will change, I'll live as a woman 24/7, my name will change, I'll have surgeries of various sorts. These things are not up for compromise. The further I go, the LESS I'll even be able to compromise.

But for now, I try to work together with her. Heck, right now I'm still working on my plan. It'll change, but I need one anyway.

I have made it clear that while I'm trying to work with her to give her time to find acceptance, that if my GD worsens, I will do what I must to control it. If that means HRT sooner than she's ready for, that's the breaks.

I'm hoping that she'll begin to feel invested in this process, she'll see good things happen to me, and at the same time, good things will happen to her. This type of partnership has been a hallmark of our marriage at its best. It may not happen - its a stretch - but it is worth a try.

The lotion idea is great, I'll do that.

And I'll start journaling. Mea culpa, too many forum posts... ;)

[Rianna Humble]

I'd like to pick up on the idea of transition being selfish, I know just about everyone here has accepted that nonsense at one point or another.

Is it selfish to adjust your life so that you can continue to be a caring, fully functioning, productive member of Society?

Would it truly be less selfish to take your life and leave your dependants to grieve and constantly ask themselves how they could have prevented it and how they will cope now that you are no longer there?

Is it more selfish to plan for a future with your family still somewhere around or to plan for a future where you are no longer there for your family?

Is it more caring to say to your wife "Let's plan for the future" or "There is no future, I will leave you bereft"? There are verbal and non-verbal ways of saying this.

[TeresaCD]

All this shows, Paula, how much you care for your wife, wanting to make this as easy as you can.
In the mean time also planning for the future, patiently.
Hang in there, love.

[PaulaQ]

Rianna, I don't mean that I feel guilt over transitioning - you are correct, the alternative of suicide is vastly more selfish and damaging to my wife and especially my kids. (Children of a parent who commits suicide are vastly more likely to co,MIT suicide themselves.)

But ultimately, my transition is all about me. There's little or no room for compromise. No one in my family can possibly understand what I'm going through, or why. None of them will welcome this - it will impose on them in many ways and be an unwelcome change.

It's selfish. It just beats the only other alternative. The selfishness is hard, but I've done a lot for everyone in my life. I put myself last many many times, especially for my family. Just not this time. I feel no guilt. I feel no shame. I hate the pain this causes others, but I didn't ask for this, and the pain of my death would be worse.

This time, this once, it is all about me. It has to be. I'll become a different person, not unlike being a teen again. Teens are mostly self centered and selfish.

And that's OK - sometimes it is what you have to do.

[Angela Campbell]

You cannot look after or take care of others until you can look after and take care of yourself. This is not being selfish it is preparation. I spent my life taking care of others. Now all of them except for one no longer needs that so I will do what I have to do for me. It is time.

[mary something]

Paula it sounds like you have really been planning out your physical transition, and I think that you can accomplish your goals as long as you also don't overlook your mental transition to womanhood. I hope I don't sound too harsh, please remember that anything I point out is simply mistakes that I have probably made before, I'm trying to be helpful in any criticism.

In my limited opinion the most difficult task of transition isn't the physical aspect because with enough money, pain tolerance, patience, and time it is amazing how much a body can be changed from one sex to another. However just like how our bodies have masculinized over the years since our childhood our consciousness has also because we have not been socialized correctly to our gender. Our entire life most of us have been forced to figure out how to navigate ourselves in the world of men, with varying levels of success. There is an unwritten social code that men and women are expected to follow, and it is different for each sex. This social code is reinforced many, many times over our lifetime in every social experience we have with another person. If you are to successfully transition from male to female you need to reintegrate yourself to the new rules under which you will live the rest of your life and the best time to start is right now.

It is much more difficult to change our thoughts and feelings than it is to change our bodies. We can find evidence of this for example with weight loss or gain. It is not uncommon for someone who loses a large amount of weight in a short time to find that their mental image of themselves takes longer to adjust than their body was able to change. I have been asking you to journal specifically for this reason, and that is why it is so important. It will affect your passability and ability to integrate into women's spaces just as much as any physical changes or more.

The challenge is to transition the way a woman would and not the way a man would. If you declare to the world that you are transsexual then you are telling them that you are a woman and your body is wrong. It is for this very reason that you act as much like a woman as possible to get as much credibility as you can. Women aren't born they are made from little girls who grow up wanting to become like the women they emulate. You were denied this opportunity and instead had to learn to survive as a man in the world of men. You have to unlearn much and relearn what will be important as a woman. You have a wonderful resource right in front of you that you can use to demasculinize your conscious thoughts and learn how to think more like a woman and that is your wife.

Imagine how differently your last entry would have been written if it was composed by your wife who was wanting to transition and was explaining how she was navigating the issue with you, her husband. That is what you need to emulate until it becomes second nature. You need to resocialize yourself and teach yourself what you have missed out on for the last 50 odd years of learning how to be a woman in our society. It isn't easy.

Buddha said that before you can walk a path you must become that path. That is exactly the point I am making here. You have been forced to walk the path of men since childhood by forces that are out of your control, and part of you has become like the path you have traveled. It is very important to be able to realize this to achieve the self-actualization that will heal yourself. You need to discuss matters concerning transition with your wife as HER WIFE if you want her to believe that you are truly a woman inside. If she really believes that you are a woman then she will understand why you need to transition without very much effort on you part, but that is still no guarantee that she will want to stay with you. If you continue to create the dynamic that is familiar to crossdressers (read MEN), then you will experience more pain until you learn how to walk the path of transition more effectively.

There is nothing selfish about transitioning, but one can transition in a selfish manner. If you are truly transsexual and this is what you need then how can anyone truly blame you for accepting medical treatment for a condition that causes you distress? Please remember though that if you do want to walk the transsexual path then you need to strip away all male thought patterns, habits, and identities to fully do so. Starting now you are auditioning for the role of wife to your wife, if you want the relationship to continue then that is the only way it is possible.

We pay much attention to demasculinizing and feminizing our bodies but do not let that be the entire focus of your endeavor, it is just as important to demasculinize and feminize your consciousness to match your gender identity to fully enter the world of women.

[PaulaQ]

I'm very concerned about my inner qualities as a woman.

Apparently, though, I have to carry my wife along, and get her self-sufficient while trying to slog through my gender dysphoria.
To her mind, I have NO CONTROL over my own body. None.

I'm going to have to leave her to transition, it is just a question of unwinding stuff enough so that it isn't an unmitigated disaster for either of us. There is no possible hope she'll be able to accept this well enough to be anything but a gigantica hindrance to me. I'm sorry she is so sad her marriage is ending - hey, mine is too!

I'll hang in long enough to give her some emotional and financial support, and to get my son married. At least that's the plan - if I can hold out that long. (After October, when my son's married.) It'll take me that long to really get my act together and find someplace else to live anyway.

I'm expecting ZERO support on this end, except for sort of pep talks from someone (my wife) who can't be bothered to have a clue about what I'm going through.

[mary something]

keep going to therapy, if you are able to form a good working relationship with your therapist things will be easier.

[KellyJameson]

Paula, that was a very interesting choice of words you used.

What do you mean by " Inner qualities as a woman" ?

[laurawulff]

One way or another we are limited with the heteronormality...womens wear dresses, men wear suits...that's the law, but it's a stupid law and we should follow our hearts and souls...remember we live and die with ourselves

[PaulaQ]

What do you mean by " Inner qualities as a woman" ?

I want to love, and nurture, and care the way women do. I want to express these things, and all the other things women express. I'm tired of being an emotionless male robot. (Albeit a really funny one.) I want people to know I love them through my actions. I want to do the things the women in my life who I've admired have done to show love. Maybe I can even stop being so friggin' logical, and follow my heart once and a while.

That's what I mean.

[mary something]

start doing all those things now Paula. No one is stopping you except yourself. I am not trying to anger you by saying this but I feel it needs to be said. Are you playing out your internal battle for self-acceptance through your relationship with your spouse right now?

Transition freaks wives out. The less said about it the better with her. Good luck!

[PaulaQ]

I am trying to do those things Mary.

My wife wants to be in control of my transition. I can't have that.

I'm trying to assuage her , in part because i'd hoped we could somehow get through this together. I realize that won't happen. So the other reason to assuage her is survival. I could end up homeless pretty easily. I need to get some shit in order, and get the he'll out of here. My finances are complex, so it will take some time. Ironically, I need to help my wife 'transition' back to being self-supporting. Once I can get this stuff settled, even partially, and have someplace to go, I gotta get out of here. There is no future for me here.

[mary something]

of course she does, she is probably as scared as she has ever felt in her entire life right now. Do not use the words transition, hrt, srs, transsexual, or the like with her if you want to have a semi-rational conversation with her right now. Any mention of your goals will push her emotional fear buttons and her ability to think logically will be severely compromised. If you have feelings and thoughts that have to be expressed that would be a perfect time to pull out your journal...

3/4 of divorces in this country are filed by women. You have given this control to her by your past actions, do not be angry at her when she tries to use it. Do not push her too hard assuming that she is completely dependent upon you Paula, she might surprise you.

Of course your wife wants to be in control of your transition, you have given her that control Paula in the ways that I have described in previous posts. Do not assume that she will always feel dependent upon you being in her life. 75% of the divorces filed in this country are by women. Separating amicably would be very advantageous to your goals compared to the alternatives. It sounds like you have already been outed to at least 10 people and you mentioned you live in a redneck town. How would a family court judge treat a situation such as yours if your wife is vindicative towards you for ruining her marriage?

You need to realize that every time you talk about transition, hrt, srs, being a woman, etc it is pushing her emotional fear button. She will be less able to think rationally when feeling extreme fear, and don't kid yourself that she isn't. That is exactly what anyone feels when they think their future is crumbling away. Do not allow yourself to rationalize that you are both feeling the same emotion about your marriage ending because if you do the consequences could be more than you imagine right now.

If the idea of transitioning is so strong that you simply have to discuss it then pull your journal out or use this board. Talking about it with your wife is not a good choice right now.

[mary something]

that is good advice that Marleena is offering about the gender therapist. I do however think that the meds are good idea right now, comparing your posts from before and after seems that they are helping you deal with the extreme stress you are feeling. Perhaps you could also see the therapist that you had a couple years ago also? They know you and can also be helpful because there are more issues at play than just gender right now I feel.

[KellyJameson]

I want to love, and nurture, and care the way women do. I want to express these things, and all the other things women express. I'm tired of being an emotionless male robot. (Albeit a really funny one.) I want people to know I love them through my actions. I want to do the things the women in my life who I've admired have done to show love. Maybe I can even stop being so friggin' logical, and follow my heart once and a while.

That's what I mean.

This is where transitioning gets dangerous and why therapy and RLE is critical.

You are describing natural emotional expressions universally available to anyone regardless of gender or sex.

You want to be very sure that social conditioning has not repressed your natural emotional expression so you could live up to socially defined gender roles.

Being able to love and nurture has nothing to do with gender or sex and everything to do with being human.

You do not want to make the mistake of hiding behind a skirt just to be able to love and care for others.

In my opinion transitioning is an extremely personal act that ultimately has nothing to do with others.

Yes, living your actual gender does make life easier but you do it because you will never be given any peace until you do. It has F..k all to do with loving others unless you mean sexual love.

Transitioning should not be a way to avoid challenging or escaping sick social norms that result in children or adults not being able to show love because of their body.

Being seen as you know yourself to be is extremely important but being an emotional robot comes from being emotionally repressed by others so you fear the consequences of showing emotion.

You are trying to avoid emotional vulnerability by breaking the cultural customs you have been taught about how you should act as a "man" so you are seeking to escape this through transitioning.

If you transition for the wrong reasons you will actually create inside yourself the very thing transsexuals transition to escape from. You will immerse yourself into GD

It is possible you have repressed because of repressed gender identity so you emotionally shut down to survive but I urge you to move very slowly because what you describe may have nothing to do with gender and everything to do with the socially sick way men are raised in western culture which is completely abnormal to being and living as a human being.

It really does not surprise me that men are violent when you see how they contort themselves into unnatural shapes to be accepted. I have only recently come to understand the reasons behind this behavior.

I believe what you described is one of the driving forces behind crossdressing so those who crossdress can give themselves permission to "feel" because they have been so severely damaged by the sick expectations imposed on them by the environment they grew up in.

I have referred to crossdressing as a form of therapy for this reason in the past.

I could see how it was being used to escape something in the self to become whole by becoming that which they were not to than be able to give themselves permission to act in ways that did not violate their internalized image of masculinity that was socially constructed and adopted by them.

This will lead to all kinds of tragedy if you mistake emotional repression for gender identity conflict

It is a chicken or egg problem of what came first. Are you emotionally repressing because of not living in alignment with your body or are you running into another gender to escape past violations to your actual gender.

Please work with a therapist because you are holding your life in your hands

It is vital that you understand gender identity because if you transition into an identity that is not truly a reflection of you it will end in tragedy.

You will violate your subconscious internalized image of self.

[ReineD]

What is the most common reply that many of the cd'ers will say to a wife or gf? They will say there is nothing wrong with boundaries, boundaries and firm rules will save your relationship, tell him what he can and can't do and you'll both be much happier for it.

This is sage advice if a crossdresser wants to stay married to a wife that he loves, but it will not help if their marriage is not strong and he wants out in order to be free to dress. Also, it is obviously not good advice to give to someone who is transsexual simply because it ignores the fact that transition is imminent.



I have never really identified with that sentiment becuase I don't want to be in a relationship where I'm being treated like a child. You'll see them using the analogy to a kid in a candy store and pink fog a lot.

Pink fog means they aren't responsible for their actions and need someone to reign them in, and maybe that's true for them.

No. Pink fog means they are rationalizing and deluding themselves into thinking that something is true, which they will discover when the mystique of it all has ended that it was not true. An example is believing they pass at very close range (when interacting with someone) when dressed, and their male selves are unrecognizable to others who know them well. Another is believing they are attracted to men and such men are attracted to them as women, only to realize when they're actually with a man that the feminine aura dissipates when everyone is naked and they are turned off the idea of two male-bodied individuals having sex, together with a realization that the man is in fact attracted to the one body part that GGs don't have. Another example is having an unrealistic view of life as a woman with a belief they will be much happier when their marriages are ended because they will be free, only to realize several years down the road that they will not be treated by others much differently than they are now (and perhaps even worse if they are not stealth) and they will regret having ended a relationship with someone they love.

THAT is Pink Fog as it is experienced by individuals who are not true transsexuals. So the advice given the crossdressers on the CD side of the forum, to take it slowly and come up with compromises until the wife has caught up with her understanding of the CDing and the CDer's feet have touched the ground again, is good advice.



I have come out to two SO's so far. I can tell you from experience it is much easier for a SO to accept that you maybe are transsexual if you already smell like a girl, wear feminine jewelry occasionally, have your ears pierced, etc. The severity of their reaction has a lot to do with how "male" your presentation is compared to what they consider a "feminine" presentation. And wives generally will put up with a crossdresser but a transsexual not so much anyway.

It's true that wives can accept the CDing more easily than transsexualism, simply because they (most) are hetero and they do not want to be married to women. The wives who can and do stay married to a spouse through a transition (and I mean a full transition) are rare gems indeed.

But it's definitely NOT true that a wife will be able to accept her husband's transsexualism if he already smells like a girl, has long hair, has pierced ears, and wears occasional jewelry. None of these things define womanhood since many males adopt those fashions, and if a wife is hetero and accepts all of these things it is because she sees her husband as a man who will remain a man and not be on his way to becoming a woman. Believe me, most hetero wives leave their marriages when they see evidence of a real transition vs, mere changes in cosmetic styles.

Also, I suspect it is the rare wife who, like me, is able to see her partner as having a combined gender of his/her own that is neither purely male nor purely female.

[PaulaQ]

I think you are largely spot on Reine.

I am going to go shopping for a new therapist. Mine doesn't believe in "the letter." Now if I can just find an endocrinologist who doesn't believe in "the letter." Oh wait...

As for my wife, she's trying. She really is, in her own, selfish self-centered little way. I don't mean to minimize her problems:
1. her marriage is on the rocks
2. her husband is "dying"
3. she's having to transition back to being self-supporting, after not working for a decade

These are bad problems. They are hard problems. I sympathize with them. My problems:
1. my marriage is on the rocks
2. I'm transsexual, and having a massive emotional crisis. I may not make it out of this alive. No bullshit.
3. I am in one of the WORST POSSIBLE PLACES in the continental US to transition. I'm serious about the not making it out alive crack.
4. I'm trying to transition with a spouse who's largely unsupportive. She's trying. She's just failing right now mostly.

My problems are leading me to fight for my life. My wife's problems are just making her real damn sad.

Despite that, my solution is to work on her problems first, and put mine on hold as much as I can, until I can get the hell out of here.

I am going to have a frank talk with her about what we're doing. I wonder if I am even remotely meeting *any* of her needs. Because she is not meeting many of mine. And I am tired of the continual rejection.

So I'll work on my wife's "transition" to the path of self-sufficiency (BTW, I never asked her to quit work), while figuring out where in the hell to live, and then I'll work on mine.

My wife is maybe a year or two from accepting my CDing. This is really tough for her. She's really trying - but it's hard to watch the absolute revulsion she exhibits when I even try to talk to her about my feelings. I am so far being being a CD, that I see NO possibility of being able to transition in the same place as her. I already feel like Frankenstein's monster in my male mode. Thanks to the loving and continual rejection from my wife, I'm starting to feel that way about being Paula too. ("I saw your silohouette while dressed - but I didn't totally freak out"). Jesus H Christ, it's like I'm something out of a horror movie. Hint: Feeling negative about both male me, and female me is probably a death sentence.

Maybe I'll get through this alive. Maybe. I'm sure I'll be a nice person on the way out, though, no matter what. I always am.

If you are wondering about my mood, I was cheering today when the weather radio warned me of a tornado watch for my county. I screamed at the heavens "COME AND GET ME YOU ****ER! BRING IT!!!!" (My wife was out at the time. As long as mayhem finds me, and not her, I'd be content with it.) I'm not sure whether or not the almighty responds well to prayers of that sort.

@KellyJameson - You mean you haven't already figured out that this story has a sad ending yet? Really? C'mon - you are WAAAAY smarter than that! :D My life is a comedy - but quite clearly, God has a BLACK sense of humor. Don't expect dry eyes on this one!

I am really really sure I have gender dysphoria. I HATE BEING A ****ING MALE GODDAMMIT! I HATE MY BODY. I HATE EVERY MALE CHARACTERISTIC I HAVE!

As for going slowly - I'm still on square one. Stalled between an indecisive medical establishment, and I wife who I've nutured and encouraged to grow personally in every way imaginable, but who needs me to stay statically in a form that I despise with a burning, incandescent passion.

@mods - sorry. Being honest here. It's not nice. Edit to your heart's content.

[mary something]

thanks for addressing pink fog as it applies to crossdressers from the perspective of a gg Reine. I do not disagree with what you say however that term smacks of male privilige to me and it always has. Since cross dressers identify as male I suppose is why it has always left that impression on me, especially when other xdressers will typically implore someone to excuse behavior by saying something like "oh, it's just pink fog" or "watch out for pink fog". But that is my perspective only and I certainly can't speak for xdressers and what they experience.

As for the cosmetic changes the point I was trying to make wasn't that any of those those things make someone a woman or a man. But they are expressions of gender typically. In Kelly's post she raises some very serious concerns that I too share for Paula. In my limited opinion I think that Paula needs to get as much experience as possible expressing her gender, and until body changes are quicker than they are now those things I mentioned will have to suffice. However once the tranny grenade has exploded in a relationship it is not uncommon for the wife to take a firm stance against any type of future gender expression or changes. Hence how the ear piercings were a no go.

When the SO clamps down and takes a hard stance against someone experiencing what Paula is that makes them want to run either over or away from the person who loves them because that expression of love is what they perceive as killing them.

I was simply trying to encourage her to not limit the opportunities that she does have to experiment with her physical gender expression before ending her marriage.

I don't think Paula is a xdresser, but I think her energy could be better used on planning her transition and more practice expressing her desired gender role than fighting with her wife and the frustration it causes her. My advice has been geared towards reducing her anxiety levels and creating an environment in her relationship where her focus can be on herself and what she needs without her wife trying to stop it.

And one last time, PAULA STOP TALKING TO YOUR WIFE ABOUT TRANSITIONING! It is not fair to accuse her of being unsupportive because she isn't your cheerleader about this.

[ReineD]

thanks for addressing pink fog as it applies to crossdressers from the perspective of a gg Reine. I do not disagree with what you say however that term smacks of male privilige to me and it always has. Since cross dressers identify as male I suppose is why it has always left that impression on me, especially when other xdressers will typically implore someone to excuse behavior by saying something like "oh, it's just pink fog" or "watch out for pink fog". But that is my perspective only and I certainly can't speak for xdressers and what they experience.

The truth is, alternative gender identity or a male's need to present as a woman can be scary for many individuals depending on how they were raised and in what type of environment, plus the potential level of acceptance or non-acceptance among their spouses, family, friends, and in their work environment. There are many CDers for whom it is a great deal more than just dressing for fetish, who will still insist they are male. These are people who can only believe in the binary concept of gender, namely that there are males, females and nothing in between. There are other people who loosely describe themselves as TG but whom the rest of the world see as "CD". In other words, there are tons of people who are not level V or level VI TS and who accept the term "CD" for themselves, just as there are non-level V & VI TSs who accept the term "TS" for themselves. ... we actually need more terms to describe all these levels, instead of trying to put everyone in either one of the two major categories for the purpose of communication. :p

So the statement that these individuals are like men who do not feel any need for cross-sex expression is false ... even if for many years, such individuals insist they are purely male-gendered.

Oh, and transsexuals do not go through a pink fog stage. They really do mean it when they say they are going to transition.



In my limited opinion I think that Paula needs to get as much experience as possible expressing her gender, and until body changes are quicker than they are now those things I mentioned will have to suffice. However once the tranny grenade has exploded in a relationship it is not uncommon for the wife to take a firm stance against any type of future gender expression or changes. Hence how the ear piercings were a no go.

I agree that Paula needs relief in terms of self-expression, but I think it is wrong to say that a wife will more easily accept transsexualism if she inures herself to the concept of the CDing. I also think it is wrong for level V or level VI transsexuals to pass themselves off as a CDer. This only attempts to avoid the inevitable and it can cause undue stress in the relationship in the meantime.

[PaulaQ]

My wife isn't even accepting of CDing. I think this is likely months or years away before she is.

I wouldn't say that I tried to "pass myself off" as a CD. I told her, straight up, "I'm transgendered." Lots of folks on the forums here told me "don't use the scary word 'transgendered'.) But I did. I told her that I couldn't promise where this would go - that I might transition. I did tell her I'd explore every way to avoid this.

Isn't happening, and for what it's worth, she didn't believe it for a second anyway. I'd hoped it was true - because being TS sucks.

[ReineD]

Paula, these are your choices. You either are:

1. A woman who was born with the birth defect of male anatomy, which will need to be corrected through full transition and living full time as a female in order for you to be happy. If this is who you are, there is no point telling your wife anything that is different than this.

2. A man who is either a non-sexual or sexual fetish CDer. This doesn't seem to describe you.

3. A person who is outside of the cis-male/cis-female binary, who dearly would love to be free to express herself unfettered, but who at the same time will not go through SRS and who ultimately would not be happy in the long-term as a woman post-SRS. Some, not all, MtFs who fit in this category would fundamentally be happy just presenting as an fully feminine and pretty male, however this is difficult in a world that does not understand the concept of non-binary gender. So the easiest way to approach this is to construct a creative life of switching back and forth at will, depending on the prevailing mood of the moment. And yes, this does require a willing and supportive spouse. If you do fall in this category, then you should not tell your spouse that you are TS and you seek transition, and the not-telling should be the truth.

You need to make sure that above all, you tell your wife your inner-truth.

EDIT - Looking back at your older post, your need to be compassionate, nurturing, and expressing love to others, I'd like to echo Kelly and say this falls in the spectrum of human emotion and it has nothing to do with gender expression. Hopefully your personality does not change depending on what clothes you are wearing.

[mary something]

that is wonderful commentary Reine and I would love to have a discussion about it, perhaps in another thread? Paula is having some extreme issues and dealing with overwhelming anxiety right now while contemplating life changing decisions. I'm more focused on trying to help her deal with her situation today than discussing the philosophical aspects of gender in this thread.

[Ann Louise]

PaulaQ, you were in pretty ragged emotional shape when you OP'd this thread, and since then it's taken quite a few twists and turns. Are you feeling better about things, maybe getting some course mapped out?

[mary something]

You need to make sure that above all, you tell your wife your inner-truth.

Paula has said many, many times in this thread that she has told her wife exactly what she wants, she mentioned pages ago that her wife knew only transition would satisfy her. The problem isn't that Paula isn't telling her truth to her wife, the problem is that her wife isn't giving her the reaction that she wants to hear and that their situation complicates the ability for Paula to do what she desperately wants to do RIGHT NOW and that is transition.

Perhaps I am reading Paula's posts incorrectly but it is her wife's REACTION to her truth that is so distressing. Paula seems very capable of understanding what her needs are and what she should do to feel better. Matter of fact she clearly stated " I'm transsexual, and having a massive emotional crisis. I may not make it out of this alive. No bullshit." on this very page. I suppose there are different ways of reading that statement, I certainly do not claim a stranglehold on truth, so lets just ask Paula to see.

Paula, if your wife told you that she fully accepted your needs to transition and would be your ally and supporter would that relieve the distress you are feeling right now?

And also I think it is a great thing that you were able to make that post earlier where you could get some of those feelings out. This is a much better place to vent than to your wife right now. Putting thoughts into words and releasing them has an amazing cathartic effect, it is worse to hold those feelings in without expressing them. Remember a few days ago Paula when I quoted you stating that it is very difficult for you to express your feelings and that you would soldier on to the end? KEEP WRITING HOW YOU FEEL, keep letting those emotions out because it will help you feel better. No one here is judging you that has experienced what it is like to have a gender crisis.

I am simply basing my opinion that it was cathartic for Paula to vent those feelings because if you read her posts between 4:49 and an hour later she went from what I would describe as very distressed and predicting her possible demise over her TS feelings to saying being TS sucks. That is a significant difference in the right direction. Keep doing whatever it is you did in that time span because it is working Paula.

[PaulaQ]

Paula, if your wife told you that she fully accepted your needs to transition and would be your ally and supporter would that relieve the distress you are feeling right now?

my wife has said she wants to help me heal and be a whole person. The problem isn't what she says, it's what she does:
1. Rejects and is repulsed by me in female attire
2. Terrified that I won't meet her needs sexually
3. Wants to stop any changes I make
4. Wants to control who I tell, and when I tell, but she can tell whoever she feels like, without consulting me, and if it goes badly she'll lie
5. Wants physical intimacy only on her terms, rejects me most of the rest of the time (I'm talking just touching)
6. Wants to have sex with me mostly because she needs it, because she will feel terrible if she has an affair. She actually told me this, after we'd had sex the other night!!!
7. She is way more worried about herself than she is about me.

Look she is trying but she ain't close to being ready for this. Sucks, but thems the breaks.

[Ann Louise]

Paula, I've been married four times (count 'em), and I loved each and every one of them in their own way. The particulars of the three failures are other stories, except to say that my latent transsexualism was fundamental to them all. Dear, regardless, in my experience I've found that when it's not right, it's not right. Ann

[mary something]

Those are some significant issues Paula, I can imagine how distressing that must feel because that describes my previous marriage. I got divorced and now a few years later am about to start hrt.

Your wife saying that she wants to help you heal and be a whole person is not the same as her saying "I fully support your transition and will be your ally and supporter".

She says one thing and yet her actions don't add up, correct?

Is it fair to say that it is her putting roadblocks up to you getting what you know that you need that is causing the distress you are feeling? Does it make it seem like it won't be attainable or that the wait will be almost unbearable?

If that is true then the issue is about control. You cannot make her do anything, she cannot make you do anything. The more everyone tries the more miserable everyone will be. The next time this discussion comes up between the two of you try communicating that it is about control and avoid talking about TS issues if possible because that will only push both of your buttons. She does not have to ask if she changes her hair style or gets her ears pierced then why should you be controlled by her on those same issues? As Reine mentioned, none of those things make you a woman OR a man. Be calm and try to get your wife to understand that she is applying different rules to the two of you and that it is unacceptable and that you really wish she could see that.

Remember when you said that the idea of piercing your ears sounded wonderful? I really think if you were able to express yourself just a little bit it would help you feel better.

[Rogina B]

Remember when you said that the idea of piercing your ears sounded wonderful? I really think if you were able to express yourself just a little bit it would help you feel better.
I believe that there are a whole lot of little steps that need to be explored before "blowing up the world". I believe I said just that at the beginning of all of this. Drama plays on drama and cheerleading isn't always best. Paula has lots of smaller issues to clean up before taking on a big one.My opinion only,but this situation isn't new to this forum.

[DaniG]

Hopefully your personality does not change depending on what clothes you are wearing.

Why do you say this, Reine? What does this indicate to you?

[PaulaQ]

I got a text from my brother-in-law this evening:

Hey "S", I just wanted to tell you how much I love you and you're welcome to talk to me anytime you need.

Gosh! What could that have been about?!?

I call him back, and yep, my wife had told him, a couple of days before. She'd asked if I'd be OK with this - after she'd done it.

So we hashed it out. I pointed out that I didn't feel especially safe, since I apparently couldn't take her at her word. She promised not to "out" me without discussing it. But she did - 7 or 8 times now. She apologized, and said "I know you said I'm handling this well, but I'm really not!" I had to agree with that - she kinda sucks at some parts of this. Oh well. I may just cut to the chase and put the following on my normal facebook page:

"Dear friends and family, it is with a heavy heart that I inform you that I'm transgendered - a woman trapped in a man's body. I intend to transition into to the role of a woman as soon as I'm able, with medical intervention of various sorts. You can see my new facebook page at ..."

What do you think?

I told her I was mad that she had been angry with me, for telling her mom "we're going to try. Our odds are terrible, but maybe we'll beat them." I was hurt by that - I wanted to believe we had some tiny, albeit incredibly unlikely glimmer of hope, especially since she didn't want a divorce right away. But there isn't any hope. I finally get that, and it really hurts. That's mostly why I'm angry, to be honest.

But we aren't going to make it. So we discussed working on plans for separation. We didn't decide anything tonight, other than I made it clear that she wasn't in any way, shape or form ready for me to transition. And our home here is the worst possible place to transition. It ain't safe to be the town tranny here in rural Oklahoma. It wouldn't be safe for me, and it would hurt her too. It simply isn't possible - and she simply isn't ready for it.

She offered to see me as Paula, if I didn't mind our sex-life ending. :) I pointed out that it would hurt her, and that I didn't need the rejection. (Tell me, o fearless reader of my tale, is my physiognomy so horrible as to inspire dread and fear in the heart of the onlooker?)

She doesn't hate me, even female me. Still, it's hard to take rejection, or the preception of it. I don't know that I can be female while she's in the house. Her "I can't look at you! I can't look at you!" feels negative. If I start hating being Paula, I'm just ****ed. If I can't stand being a man, and I can't stand being a woman, I am dead meat, for sure.

Anyway, I'm not sure what I'll do. Put my transition on ice for a while, I guess. I ain't getting hormones anytime soon - my therapist doesn't write letters. So I'll look for another therapist, and, unfortunately, probably be unable to start again until I relocate. (Next best candidate is 180 miles away. Maybe she'll do skype meetings, and I can start sooner.) I'll start my search for other resources (electrolysis, endocrinologist, etc.) all over again, in a different state. FML. I'm looking though - maybe I'll catch a break, and find someone who wants to help me actually feel better.

As for doing little things, I dunno. I can't decide if GD from not presenting as female is worse than GD from feeling like I'm a horrible old hag who my wife can't even look at without risking a mental breakdown. I know that isn't how she'd put it, but it's how it feels to me. I am really stuck between not wanting to hurt my wife, wanting to move forward. The pressure between these two unresolvable imperatives makes me want to die.

Maybe I'll manage to stay alive while all that happens. Maybe I'll manage to stay employed, while all that happens. This certainly is affecting my productivity. Maybe the meds I'm on will just stabilize me better. Yeah, right.

I'm in real trouble here, ladies.

My brother in law was trying to talk me out of being a tranny. I'm so manly and stuff.

Remind me again - why is "or die" such a bad option?

I'm gonna go take some meds before I completely melt down.

edit: my wife has not one clue what I'm going through. I used the phrases "life or death" and "struggling for my life" a bunch while talking to her. She had no idea. She thought the little steps I was taking, and my meds were making things better. (They were, but she undermined all that a WHOLE BUNCH this week.) She was hoping I'd be better in a couple of weeks. Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

I told her 2-3 years, and even after that, I could still die. She said "well, you'll be better after you transition, I hate that you read that stuff and talk to other people - you aren't like them." I told her "Hon, this is real, and this is serious. I'm telling you I'm in real danger, over the long term because I am in real danger. These aren't pessimism - if you'd bother to learn anything about what I'm going through, you'd know what I'm telling you is the cold, hard truth, scary though it may be."

Hopefully she'll buck the hell up and quit ****ing around with my identity.

[mary something]

well she obviously has a strong need to talk about it. How about getting her to a therapist maybe? join the forum? I don't know, but keep posting Paula and remember that you can make this happen, it will take time and patience but it is not impossible.

[ReineD]

Admittedly, I came into this thread late and I had not read all the posts in depth.

I have done this now (only up to post #58) and I see that you are extremely anxious and depressed, and you feel as if no one believes you.

What I read from the people who have transitioned and who know the deal, is that you are going about this awfully quickly and they are telling you to just slow down.

This doesn't help you right now, does it. You are looking for immediate relief for your anxiety and depression, since the meds aren't helping and the only thing that does seem to help is when you dress.

The only solution that I see, since the situation truly is rather dire for you at the moment, is to go ahead and move 200 miles away so that you can be near the professionals who will help you to sort, not only through the gender issues but any residual and perhaps hidden anger over being handicapped. I sympathize with you since you do have a lot on your plate.

You did say that you could do your job anywhere. Maybe you could sell one of your houses, take the proceeds to set up a small apartment in your new location, and do your job from there. Your wife could stay where you are now, and the two of you could spend your weekends together. The distance during the week might actually help things, since it is pretty tense between the two of you right now. You will also have more chances to go out as Paula, which will help you to get a better idea of what life would be like post-transition. You are correct that at age 50 your physiognomy and body might not change sufficiently to give you the appearance of having been born in a female body, and so the reactions that you will encounter now will not be significantly different than after transition.

No matter what happens or which way it will go, you will have gained valuable insight both through more frequent gender expression and seeing specialists, than you have right now.

It would make more sense to your wife, your family, and your friends if you took the time to focus on yourself and the issues that you face by doing the only thing you can do (take yourself to a place where help is available), before telling everyone, perhaps prematurely, that you are transsexual. Taking proper time to answer the questions that you asked throughout this thread, including whether what you are experiencing is GD or not, is actually a sane and healthy thing to do.

I'll read posts #58 onward later.

[Amy Fakley]

... Oh well. I may just cut to the chase and put the following on my normal facebook page:

"Dear friends and family, it is with a heavy heart that I inform you that I'm transgendered - a woman trapped in a man's body. I intend to transition into to the role of a woman as soon as I'm able, with medical intervention of various sorts. You can see my new facebook page at ..."

What do you think?


I think you need to cool your jets.

I think you need to get on an effective anti-depressant, that you need to take a good 10 steps back, and give this a month or six to settle in; to process your own feelings about what you're going through, without all the "do it now or die" urgency.

I think you have a myriad of issues, and that while being TS may be at the root them, transitioning right now is not going to make your life any easier or simpler, in fact I suspect that until you get on an even keel, transitioning is going to only exacerbate your negative feelings. I think that you and those you love will have an easier, more positive experience on this journey (no matter where it takes you), if you address your problems from the perspective of your whole self and not just your gender stuff. If you are TS, or TG or whatever flavor of this ... you are certainly more than just that. There is more to you than just this.

I know I'm not TS and so I know I don't have the perspective and "cred" or whatever to post in here ... but I do know this. You have lived the vast majority of your life up to now without this having been the defining aspect of it (or you'd have been in this spot a lot sooner). If you made it that long, surely you can toss in a few extra weeks to calm the heck down and get some perspective before you nuke your entire life from orbit, no?

[PaulaQ]

@mfakley - I'm on paxil and buspar, with an occasional xanax thrown in. My best guess is that I'm TS, need hormones, and have been, in essence, going through menopause for 50 years. It's finally breaking me. This has tried to kill me two other times, and this one is WAAAAAAAAAY worse.

Let me be really blunt - I'm *not* going to survive this with little half-measures, and bandaids. I think I need hormones.

As for waiting longer - yeah, well, like it or not, my current therapist is totally freaking useless, and I get to start over again. There is not an endocrinologist in the US who'll write me a 'scrip without a letter, and my therapist doesn't believe in them. I'm looking for other options in therapists, and am going to get a second opinion, if nothing else. So no matter what - I'm at minimum 3 months away from doing HRT. MINIMUM.

@Reine - thanks to the housing bubble, selling either of my houses isn't in the cards. The one house where we have some decent equity, is the one my wife wants. We could sell it for a profit, but she doesn't want to do that, and it'll take 6 months to sell it out here, if we price it right. There is a market here, it's active, but it's small, and we're on the high end of it. The other house - I'll likely have to write someone a $20K check and hand them the key to get it off my hands. I'll lose my shirt on that place. Seriously - I'll lose $100K + and have to pay someone to take it off my hands. Sucks, but them's the breaks.

I may have to set up an apartment elsewhere anyway. That might be for the best. We'll see how it goes.

For all of you who are reading this - I am feeling a little better. I reached out to another member here by phone, and talked to my wife some more after stomping the crap out of something relatively indestructible. I also took more meds.

I'm having a bad week - they aren't all this bad. My wife's outing me twice this week without consulting me totally destroyed my trust in her. And even though I ultimately WANT to be out, I also want to have some say in it. What she did was a HUGE violation of trust - she promised she'd never do this - but she's done it 7-8 times now. Having my identity ripped out from under me is really difficult, and it freaks me out emotionally. This stuff is HARD.

Not all my weeks will be this bad, I hope. Most of 'em aren't.

@mary - my wife is in therapy. You should've seen her before she went into a therapist. Unfortunately, I think she's about to fire her therapist. For all that's happened, she really hasn't learned a hell of a lot about what's going on with me. It's just too much for her. :(

[mary something]

what do I think? I think that you should listen to mfakely and rogina, and especially Kaitlyn. I think that you're out of control right now and in a loop of self-perpetuating drama with your wife because you keep doing the same things over and over again that haven't worked in the past and probably won't magically work in the future. Instead of talking to your wife and overwhelming her, then stomping the crap out of something in the house and acting totally out of control, then getting angry at her when she reaches out to people for support because her husband's behavior is overwhelming...

If I was you I would simply pack a suitcase with a couple days worth of clothing. Tell your wife that you love her and can't stand the emotional damage that is happening to both of you right now and that you need a day or two alone to clear your head. Reassure her that you aren't going to commit infedility against her, you're not going to hurt yourself, that you are only doing this because the cycle of self-destructive activity must stop and you can't manage to handle all aspects of your situation at once right now. then go to the closest hotel and check in for a couple nights. Let her know where you are and the room number, make sure she knows that you are safe and make sure she is safe, then don't contact her for a couple days except to say good morning and good night and let her know you are safe and make sure she is safe. Get away from your wife and clear your head Paula. Reassure her that you will be back, and that this is simply what is necessary for you to get your shit in order.

Then sit in your room totally alone while dressed for comfort and just reread everything you've posted on this site. Get out of the situation and get some clarity, clear your head, give your wife and yourself a break for a couple days.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Paula I have corresponded with you before..

I believe you for sure...this is what happens to some of us...

the very specific thing you need is progress.... its very possible that you will transition...but it is not anything like you think...especially the things you were saying previously about emotions ...everything will change and everything will stay the same..
you really cannot predict how you feel, what you will do...etc....

and what's more, transitioning POORLY will be a worse nightmare....if you think that you need to transition at all else, that does NOT mean you need to transition poorly
...it does mean you have to step back and make a plan...a facebook post is not a good first step in your plan...mistakes in transition are amplified compared to mistakes in life...

one of the most common mistakes we make is in the disclosure of it...the DESIRE to tell everyone is strong, but it can run counter to your NEED to transition... you may have some lack of choice here because of what your wife is doing...but your MUCH better bet is one by one....if somebody knows, talk to them...you will be surprised to find that some of them will actually support you...they will become at best allies or at worst benign... and trust me, the whispering behind your back is actually a roar, and what you need in that case is somebody that can say constructive and supportive things behind your back..somebody that will offer up in gossip that they talked to you and thought you were strong or courageous...

your wife is doing you a favor..but its not her fault. she doesn't understand and has feelings too...but she has made her decision (my wife left me...and I never blamed her...I felt bad for her...I can't imagine how difficult this was for her)..
your wifes instability is an issue...your instincts are to make sure she is ok....but (and this is harsh), its her issue...just like your transsexuality is your issue... if the only way for her to be ok is for you to be NOT ok, where does that leave you?
and her actions open up a much easier path to take steps to have a separation that will give you some freedom

check with a therapist named Anne Vitale...I know in the past she did online consults...she writes alot as well and you can find her writings online....some of it may be dated but there is a lot to read from her.
I don't know of other therapists but just google it...I bet you can find someone...but fair warning...if you are as overwrought as you seem, they will likely notice it and make it job one to deal with that prior to doing something like HRT

all your weeks will not be this bad....make some progress...HRT is certainly a big deal...but that's only one part of progressing...

this thread is progress...that phone call was progress...knowing you need a therapist is progress..telling a person yourself is progress.....that's what transition actually it...its progress...

[PaulaQ]

I'll answer some of the other points later, but my comment about announcing this to everyone over facebook was meant as a joke - my wife has outed me (without asking me first) to so many people, family and friends, that it almost seems like I should just use FB to catch the one or two people she might miss as she continues to out me to people.

I'd never actually do something like that! It would be shocking and cruel to people who didn't know, and just an insanely stupid thing to do at this point.

Sorry that didn't come across properly - I can't BELIEVE how many times she's broken her promise not to out me without at least discussing it with me!

[Marleena]

I replied yesterday but it went ignored so I removed it. Paula I'm seeing some positive things here. You're getting help, you said you joined a support group, you've made a long term transition plan, etc. Talk to people in your group that are at least in RLE for leads to gender therapists and for advice.

The most important thing now is to find a gender therapist with experience. If you have to travel far just consider it a road trip for the day and there will be time between visits anyways. Like Kaitlyn said there are therapists that do skype, email and phone therapy. Make the gender therapist your top priority. I also like the mini vacation at least, getaway that Mary mentioned. Think short term right now since your long term planning is done.

Cisgender people you know will be of little to no help because they just don't understand gender issues. They will want you cured instead which is the wrong approach to gender issues.

[Badtranny]

Paula, consider this.

The "letter" is not the goal of any Gender therapist you're going to encounter. They are supposed to help you through feelings of confusion and emotional discomfort, but the 12 weeks it takes to get a letter is just a guideline. Nobody can really diagnose anyone with something like this in 12 hours so what they're trying to do is identify people with OTHER problems that may be confusing the issue. Any therapist will tell you that YOU are the only one that knows what you're feeling and YOU are the one she is relying on to give her honest information about what you're feeling. If you find a therapist who agrees to give you the letter in 12 weeks, then go ahead and ask her for it right up front, what's the difference if you're just going through the motions? I told my therapist that I needed to be sure I wasn't crazy before I went and blew up my life with the transition. I was worried that I wasn't clear headed enough for the decision. She eventually said I was fine. She didn't say I was TS, she said I was of sound mind as far as she could tell.

Having said that, there are plenty of Endos who don't need a letter. Mine doesn't, and neither did my first Endo who was my GP at the time. In fact, I've had 3 Endos and none of them needed the letter. None even asked for it.

[LeaP]

Exactly right, except that I would change "any Gender therapist" to "any LEGITIMATE Gender therapist." Hormones didn't come up with mine until nearly 8 months in, and *I* brought it up. I started therapy with the goal of clarity. My therapist was principally concerned in the early months with treating other issues in order to see if the gender/sex issue remained and in what form.

My physician (who is trans herself), however, absolutely requires the letter.

[Angela Campbell]

My therapist asked me right up front what I wanted. I told him I wanted to transition. We discussed this with the reasons why, the ramifications and a lot of discussion on my past and why I wanted to. He also had to make sure I knew exactly what the effects and risks of HRT are and what my plans would be for coming out to family, work and everything else. We discussed my plans for what I will do after starting HRT. Of course this was not done in one visit but took several visits during a condensed period. We were meeting more than once a week. It took a little more than 6 weeks to get the letter. The 12 weeks is a guideline but an experienced therapist is not forced to go by it strictly, but is responsible to make sure it is the right thing. That is what the letter is for. It is the way the Endo or Internist protects themselves from the responsibility of giving someone who is not right for it the treatment. The letter places the responsibility for the determination of whether the treatment is proper on the therapist.
The one I see only works with TS people and has transitioned himself years ago.

[LeaP]

Therapy for transsexuals is intended to be multidisciplanary. A letter does not release a physician from responsibility - far from it. The physician is as responsible as the therapist and a physician that ignores existing standards of care in the treatment of ANY condition does so at his or her risk. From the WPATH SOC (the one that usually applies in the US): "Mental health professionals who recommend hormonal and surgical therapy share the legal and ethical responsibility for that decision with the physician who undertakes the treatment."

[Angela Campbell]

If that were the case the physician would have to spend time with you in therapy and they do not. They have to allow the mental health professional make that diagnosis and then the physician is responsible for the medical part of the treatment. Not whether or not it is the correct path for the patient to take. At least this is what was explained to me.

[mary something]

I agree with tour point Lea and it is exactly correct that the physician is completely responsible for any treatment that the administer I regard less of the circumstances of the situation. I read Ellen's point and my understanding of her post is that many physicians require letters from a credentialed professional that the patient has their clearance for the treatment from a psychological perspective. There are many Dr's who have this requirement and like Ellen said they use this professionals opinion that the patient isn't presenting with a different condition that would mimick transsexuality and that the patient is psychologically healthy enough for medical treatment.
Your post adds the important caveat that the physician is responsible for their actions regardless. And Paula this is an important point. The best way to make progress towards tour goal is first to stabilize your personal life and get in an even keel. Its simply one if the basics tenets of triage. Stabilize the patient then determine necessary treatments.

Don't let the fact that a lot of people are advising caution right now discourage you. Like kaitlyn said you need to feel progress right now. No one us saying that you are wrong, simply saying that you have to start climbing a ladder at the bottom you can't start halfway up.

[ReineD]

Paula, if your wife is telling everyone that you are transsexual and are on the path to sexual reassignment surgery, you can be proactive and tell everyone that you are experiencing major gender issues and that you are seeking professional help, even if this means seeing someone regularly in the nearest city to where you live.

If your wife is telling everyone that you are questioning your gender and she is afraid that you will transition, this is true. She is afraid that you will transition and you are questioning your gender, or at least this was the case throughout the things you've said in this thread.

If you've already decided that hormones are the answer for you before having seen a professional who is experienced in this and also anxiety and depression, honestly I think that no matter what he or she says, if they don't agree with you, you will not have any confidence in them because you've already made up your mind. So then it is a question of contacting some of the members here who might tell you how to find doctors who do prescribe hormones just based on your say-so. Over time I've read from members here (I don't know if they ended up transitioning or not) that there are many such doctors in this country. As much as we like to think that everyone follows the WPATH recommendations, I don't think this is the case if what members have said is true.

I wish there was more research focus on the ways that brains are rewired in non-Type V and VI TSs who take cross-sex hormones. Most of the studies that I come across focus on the cosmetic changes and also report feelings of well-being, specifically as regards the reduction of male libido which I understand can be distracting among some XY individuals. I do wonder if these feelings of well-being might enhance rather than relieve the feeling that one was born in the wrong body, among people who are not Type V or VI transsexual.

It is known that in human adults, the volume of the brain and hypothalamus of males tend to be larger than those of females. Studies of transsexuals have shown that the brain of MtF TSs approximates the size of cisfemales' brains. I did find a study that posed the question, was the MtF TS female brain size present at birth, or was it altered as the result of HRT. The findings suggest that HRT does decrease the male brain size towards female proportions in MtF TSs. If these types of changes can occur, what else might be changed?

Here's the study: http://www.eje.org/content/155/suppl_1/S107.full

I also found an account of transition by someone born in 1965 who felt she was female as a child, began HRT in 2003, and had SRS in 2012. Her story is similar to other transitioners that I've read, but she did make a point that I've seen made in this thread several times and that I'd like to emphasize:

http://www.transvamp.com/ask/myths_hormones.html


Why Transition Won't Work for Most People

Some middle-aged folks transition for the wrong reasons. They feel they were born in the wrong body and must take the steps necessary to live their lives completely as full-time women. They go through all the steps - hormones, FFS, breast implants, vaginoplasty - only to discover that they feel no better than when they started. The reason is plain and simple. If your life sucks as a man, it will suck worse as a woman.

Although it's nice to receive encouragement, I think it is more useful to get both sides of the story so that you can make the best informed, most objective decision possible, since we are talking about drastic changes to your fundamental being.

I hope that you and others will not resent my suggestions to exercise caution, if you can.

[mary something]

There are a lot of people here Paula who care about you and want you to feel better very much

[arbon]

I agree with what Mary says about there being people here who care about you and want to see you get through this.

[PaulaQ]

Awake now. Took more Xanax this morning - I woke up having a panic attack.

I promise I will respond to everyone, please don't feel I am ignoring you, especially Marleena, but also everyone.

I am stuck. I need to be Paula for a while. It helps. I am afraid to be Paula - I somehow know all the feelings I've had about being a monster are right. I am a monster - hideous and deformed, and anathema to society. There is no place for me.

I should die.

I will try to be Paula today. I don't trust anyone. I don't know if I can be Paula. She is frightened, and that is new. It is weird to hide behind my natural face - it is a mask. I am myself after I don my garb as Paula.

Obviously time for more meds.

[Marleena]

No need to reply to me Paula it was mostly observation on my part.

[PaulaQ]

I'm better today than I was over the last couple of days. I'll respond in more depth later. I'm having trouble responding to some of the posts in the thread without triggering a panic / anxiety attack. That shuts me down for a while, so it's kind of pointless to try and write anything. Bear with me. Having a hard time still. I am fragile right now.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

paula you do not need to respond to ANY post ...
Take what you want out of each one!!! toss the ones that don't resonate...

people care to share and some of us may not have ever been in a similar place..

take a breather and start over...the past posts are the past

...what can you do now to feel better...to feel ok? there is no need for anything to happen today tomorrow or anytime soon... if you don't make progress today, maybe tomorrow or the next...

you have a lot to offer and you have a lot on your plate...you can hang in there for now!!

[ReineD]

If it was me, Paula, I'm sorry ...

Like Kaitlyn says, these are only things to consider and either follow through on or reject. You must follow your own heart.

[PaulaQ]

Since the subject of "what do you want from a therapist" has come up -

What I want from a therapist
1. A diagnosis
2. A treatment plan - preferrably one that follows WPATH
3. Guidance during treatment as appropriate - there are many decisions that only I can make, but help making them, and tools for making the right choices would help

What I don't want
1. Hints that I should self medicate
2. Suggestions that just seem bizarre - like voice coaching is a waste of money
3. Incorrect diagnosis like "I think you are genderqueer"? Really? NFW.
4. Actual pointers to local medical resources to help me, whatever my problem actually is
5. A kafkaesque process where "I am the only one who can understand what's wrong with myself, but if I guess wrong, then "you have a tendency to over-diagnose yourself and pathologize your condition" What am I doing? Do I figure this out for myself, or do I not? Apparently, both are the wrong answer.

Speaking of kafkaesque processes - this forum - yeah, I am tired of being on trial here.

I hope I figure out what's wrong with me. (I feel quite certain of it, but apparently I am the only one.) I hope I don't ruin my life. Since I am seriously considering ending it, I would hope it can only get better from here - but in fact I know full well, from tragic, real life, first hand experience that there are PLENTY of fates that are worse than death. Let's hope I don't find one of those, shall we?

[mary something]

you sound very frustrated because you aren't making any progress. Re-examine your actions that have led you to this point, then resolve to do things in a different manner and hope they result in a situation that works better for you. Isn't it safe to say that something needs to change? The only person who you can make change is yourself.

[Marleena]

A gender therapist is the key here Paula. They will be able to discern what is actually gender issues and what are other issues and treat you appropriately. They follow WPATH guidelines. We have given you ways to find one here in this thread.

[stefan37]

Since the subject of "what do you want from a therapist" has come up -

What I want from a therapist
1. A diagnosis
2. A treatment plan - preferrably one that follows WPATH
3. Guidance during treatment as appropriate - there are many decisions that only I can make, but help making them, and tools for making the right choices would help

What I don't want
1. Hints that I should self medicate
2. Suggestions that just seem bizarre - like voice coaching is a waste of money
3. Incorrect diagnosis like "I think you are genderqueer"? Really? NFW.
4. Actual pointers to local medical resources to help me, whatever my problem actually is
5. A kafkaesque process where "I am the only one who can understand what's wrong with myself, but if I guess wrong, then "you have a tendency to over-diagnose yourself and pathologize your condition" What am I doing? Do I figure this out for myself, or do I not? Apparently, both are the wrong answer.

Speaking of kafkaesque processes - this forum - yeah, I am tired of being on trial here.

I hope I figure out what's wrong with me. (I feel quite certain of it, but apparently I am the only one.) I hope I don't ruin my life. Since I am seriously considering ending it, I would hope it can only get better from here - but in fact I know full well, from tragic, real life, first hand experience that there are PLENTY of fates that are worse than death. Let's hope I don't find one of those, shall we?
What I want
1. a good gender therapist can give you an idea and ask good questions, but in the end you have to decide it transition is important to you.
2. Treatment plans goes as follows, seek therapy, commence facial hair removal the sooner the better. At some point be referred to a medical doctor for hrt. The timing of this is up to you.
3. guidance. Um this one is a bit tricky good gender therapists can make suggestions. A better way would be to get involved in transgender support groups and talk to other people that are or have transitioned and see what methods and techniques they used to transition.

What I do not want
1. Under no circumstances should you self medicate, the risks are way to high.
2. If your intention is to transition and you truly believe you are female, voice coaching, practice and use is of the up-most importance. It will not only allow you to integrate fully, but even in your daily life help you to feel more congruent with your true self. And voice practice cost zero money. There are plenty of resources on the web and YouTube that can get you started. The hard part is to practice and persevere. then when using it in public and on the phone overcome the self consciousness that accompanies using a female voice. Voice is so important and to improve it to sound female is not bizarre. Again no money has to be spent.
3. Again the diagnosis really has to come from you. You will know if you can live as a male, as female, or live in the middle. If you are not able to live in the middle switching back and forth, then I highly doubt you are gender queer.
4.Would it be better to not have access to local providers that may be able to offer assistance?
5. Medical doctors can pretty accurately diagnosis physical ailments and offer treatment. Competent therapists and good gender therapist if gender is involved can discover underlying symptoms and offer ways to mitigate those symptoms. Sometimes with medical intervention. Depression is a serious disease that can be diagnosed and treated.
If your gender is the underlying cause, you will need to decide what is more important in your life. Improving the quality of your life or maintaining the status quo and making everybody else comfortable except yourself.

Please do not feel you are on trial. We are offering suggestions to help you improve the quality of your life. Unfortunately on an internet forum you will get many opinions and some may or may not be in your best interest. You have to parse thruough the opinions and pick out those that resonate and are relevant to your feelings.

This is my opinion and only mine about why this is becoming so difficult for you. You have a loving wife that is not able to accept, support or be with you as you undergo transition. You love her deeply and the thought of you separating is too much to bear. You may feel guilty for shattering her views of your future together. Well unfortunately this condition in many ways really does suck and in the majority of cases despite the partners best actions the marriage is a casualty. That can not be avoided if you truly feel the need to transition and must transition to save your life. Ending your life is the most selfish thing an individual can do. It may help alleviate your feeling of pain, and who really knows what lies ahead after death, nobody has come back to report. But the heartache, pain and guild that it leaves with your survivors in its wake takes a huge toll on them and in many cases could scar them for life.

I wish you Godspeed in making the correct choices for you and improving the quality of your life. Yes you need to open up some serious decisions to make and opening up candid truthful honest conversations with your wife and deciding on a course of action, no matter where it may lead will be the best way for you to choose your path forward in life. Your wife may feel the need to pursue a different path, and it you take divergent paths, nothing says those paths may not at some point in the future converge again.

Good luck Paula, We truly only have your best interests in mind. I certainly have no agenda and offer these suggestions only to help you make what decisions are best for you.

[arbon]

1. Under no circumstances should you self medicate, the risks are way to high.

not as risky as ending things

[mary something]

that is very true Arbon! It might not be a very good choice but there sure are worse choices.

[LeaP]

paula you do not need to respond to ANY post ...
Take what you want out of each one!!! toss the ones that don't resonate...



Plus 1 on that.

[Maiko Newhalf]

Reine, could you please elaborate a little bit on the brain rewiring part of your post? (Maybe start another thread so we don't hijack the OP's thread) It got me a little bit concerned. It seems that it is a common practice these days (including in my case) for a gender therapist to use HRT as a "final" diagnosis tool to confirm GD. I've been going to gender therapy for almost two years and have recently started my full HRT. I'd say that I don't have much doubts since most of the other feminizing steps that I've taken such as facial hair removal and growing out hair did help a lot with my stress. I don't know why but seeing myself becoming more and more feminine just make me happy. I'm a firm believer of taking baby steps when it comes to a big decision and complicated task like gender transition.

With that be said, it concerns me if it is possible as the research article stated hormones could change one's brain. Then the whole thing could potentially be a self fulling prophecy...and also one could potentially use hormones to cure gender dysphoria. I'd like to know your opinion and other references if you have. I have to say 8 M2F and 6 F2M in that article is a bit of a small sample space....

I understand the topic is rather sensitive and you may not want to say something that upset other TS members. So feel free to PM me if this is the case. I really want to know...

Thanks,
Mayiko

[ReineD]

Maiko, I wish I could elaborate but I can't. My point was a question, based on the study that I posted. If HRT can change a TS's brain size, what else can it change in the brain in addition to all the desired cosmetic effects?

Also, I know that gender therapists use HRT as a diagnosis tool. I was shocked when I first heard this years ago but the theory is that if a person dresses strictly for sexual reasons the HRT will curb libido which will take away the desire to dress and I suppose bring the person a measure of peace.

[PaulaQ]

My understanding is that if you are TS, HRT will tend to calm you down, as it reduces GD. If you are NOT - you will tend to feel anxious and depressed - as the hormones induce GD. Because of the volatile nature of hormones and their effects on the body and brain, this is really only a good test if you already sort of know the answer anyway.

[Maiko Newhalf]

I remember reading about some psychiatrists tried to use Testosterone on M2F transsexual patients to "cure" GD but got very bad results...

I'm aware of people saying the female and male brains are different but I'm not sure how much of it is innate and how much happens during the development of an individual. After all growing up as a boy or girl means the society has very different expectation/training on him/her, which perceivably affect one's brain development during adolescence. I can understand how HRT might affect the brain chemistry but I have a hard time believe that it actually change the brain construction of an adult, maybe possible to someone in his/her adolescence. Men tend to be more driven and rational but it could be simply because the Testosterone making them more aggressive and eager and less emotional. It may not have anything to do with man was born with a larger some part of the brain...

Another interesting thing is about sexuality (and how hormones change it)... my understanding is that sexuality not only means which sex one finds attractive but also has a lot to do with one's self-image. In that sense gender identity and sexuality are related. This is particularly true in the case of women (cis or trans). I can hard imagine a woman find even the most handsome man attractive if he thinks she looks hideous... The same applies to straight trans-woman. Some of them may not be interested in men at all prior to transition because they were perceived as guys. That does not necessarily mean HRT changed her sexuality -- I'd say transition helped them find their sexuality which was unclear due to gender issues...

[ReineD]

I can understand how HRT might affect the brain chemistry but I have a hard time believe that it actually change the brain construction of an adult ...

Well, if HRT can change the construction of an XY individual's body ... grow breasts, redistribute body fat, affect muscle mass, make the skin thinner and more translucent, etc, why wouldn't it have an affect on the brain as well? It's the chemical changes that I worry about. I can understand TSs wanting to change their male body to a female body, but why would they want to change their brain chemistry? Wouldn't this change their inner beings into someone they are not?

Or maybe I'm looking at this all wrong. I tend to look at the body being separate and distinct from the inner self, which is the way that most of us (I guess) look at it in this community: inner desires, gender identity, personality traits, etc, are separate and distinct from the appearance of the body. But, maybe they are not. Maybe our inner self is informed by the volume of chemical reactions in our brains?



Another interesting thing is about sexuality (and how hormones change it)... my understanding is that sexuality not only means which sex one finds attractive but also has a lot to do with one's self-image. In that sense gender identity and sexuality are related. This is particularly true in the case of women (cis or trans). I can hard imagine a woman find even the most handsome man attractive if he thinks she looks hideous... The same applies to straight trans-woman. Some of them may not be interested in men at all prior to transition because they were perceived as guys. That does not necessarily mean HRT changed her sexuality -- I'd say transition helped them find their sexuality which was unclear due to gender issues...

Others can chime in here (I hope), but one of the most enlightening posts that I've ever read in this section was about the idea that prior to HRT, the writer (due to having had male libido) had mistaken her attraction to women as friends and sisters for a sexual attraction to women and that as you say, there had been a sexual attraction to men all along. I wonder if the ebbing of male libido helped to orchestrate this change? I have read many times here that previously female-attracted TSs became male-attracted after transition even though the strength of their libido was different. At any rate it makes sense if only because transitioners now have the body parts to compliment male body parts in the love-making department. But on the other hand, I've read people swear up and down that their female-attracted sexual preferences wouldn't change an iota.

[Maiko Newhalf]

Dear Paula,

I'm only on estrogen for two weeks (a weak anti-androgen for 18 month though) so I'm a complete newbie on this. In my case, I didn't notice any difference psychologically or physically. There may be some placebo effects. I did notice less spontaneous erection during sleep and none for the next morning which is great.

As I said I'm a firm believer of taking baby steps. This is partially because I'm quite passive and cautious in nature and partially due to my culture background. I'm divorced now but I have not made up my mind on transitioning, although deep down I think I know... I still want to do the best for my child and my ex-wife. Just because the marriage failed doesn't mean that we stopped caring and considering for each other, especially when there's a child involved.

I guess I have gone through some of what described in this thread myself, although perhaps with much less intensity. At the very beginning of my journey on gender, I felt quite stressed because of my ex-wife's rejection. Some of the comments I remembered were along the line of being ugly/masculine, and yeah that's hurtful. But being a trans myself, I think I was given the gift of understanding women better than most genetic males. She said those things because she doesn't want to let you (as a guy) go... These days as I'm improving my presentation, she'll occasionally say that I look like a woman but I can see the sadness in her eyes. It is truly like watching someone you love or loved die. How long does it takes to mourn for that? Several months? A couple years? Ten years? A lifetime? It depends on how deep the love was...

As we are transitioning, people around us has to adjust as well. I don't think it is right to blame others who rejected us. Some of them disowned us because they don't care or just are too prejudice. However, others (especially family) may be doing this because they simple love the old us and unwilling to let us go despite how we hate being in the old gender role. Eventually they'll come around and accept us again. I think these people deserve time too to make the adjustment. I feel sympathetic for them because they are losing someone important in their lives and cannot do anything about it...

Anyways I feel much stronger and more stressed about gender when I first came out to my wife and start seeing my gender therapist. Sometime we'll find some things more severe after suppressing it for this long (and yes you do deserve credit for making these sacrifices over the years but your wife may not be able to see at least for now). But things are getting better. My transition strategy is to take a step, evaluate how I feel and decide whether to go forward. At the same time this give me the opportunity to enjoy the journey.

My best advice to you is to not get too hung up on HRT. Those are not magic pills and perhaps won't make you feel better immediately (especially if your source of GD is the male image you see in the mirror). The other link Reine share is helpful as well. There's a lot you can do without hormones. Both presentation and voice to take years to get better. Mannerism is even harder. Oh, and I don't think people on this site is arguing whether you are trans or not at all. Your therapist might and this is good because it is his/her responsibility to make sure you make the right decision. Your wife might do so because she want you as a man. The rest of us will only be supportive on what you decided to do.

Good luck with your journey and hope you find your own peace soon.

Mayiko

[mary something]

I think some of the stated difference in brain size that are noted between a male (testosterone) and female (estrogen) dominant brain environment has to do with the amount of the brain dedicated to spatial-visual skills. Estrogen dominant brains are usually about 10% smaller than male brains, which is why head size can be a limiting factor when it comes to "passing", males usually have bigger noggins.

This makes sense if we hypothesize that it is these visual spatial abilities that change, becuase the amount of "hardware" needed to map your environment in 3d and consider trajectories, displacement, etc is massive. In a conventional computer for example the part that will draw the most power and have the most transistors in a given die area is typically the video card, the part responsible for rendering the world in 3d. Perhaps this makes sense if we consider that from an evolutionary sense men are most likely to be hunters while women will have a more well developed communication and empathic capabilities in an estrogen dominant brain since they would share the child-rearing and other communal tasks more?

I suppose the best way to get some idea if this theory holds any water would to be to ask the girls who have been on hrt for at least a year or so if they have experienced any changes to their visual-spatial skills. Is it harder to parallel park a car now?

As far as sexual orientation changes I really don't know if one can simply blame it on estrogen. In the past homosexuality was attempted to be "cured" by administering hormones and had no effect.

Also as far as the effect of hrt on a genetic male a good place to find out what a typical man would experience is to visit support forums for men who are being treated for prostatic cancer with androgen blockers and estrogens. None of them decide they are women or change their sexual orientation. If we consider women who have had total hysterectomies and don't take hrt for health reasons one can also find support forums on the net for folks in this situation also and I have yet to find someone who reports it has changed their sexual orientation, although it is common for people to report that they lose much or most of thier libido in this situation. I'm sure their are always outliers though, because one of the most insatiable women I have ever known had already had a total hysterectomy. So who knows? Best to just say ymmv.

I wonder if the main benefit of hrt is simply allowing one's physical body to become more like the image that their brain has always expected to see in the mirror.

[Maiko Newhalf]

Reine,

I think I'm not qualified to argue one way or the other about your points. And yes it will be interesting to see what others think.

For me, I brought up the brain issue also because of practical concerns. I'm a engineer by trade. This is a very male dominated profession and conventional wisdom says guys are better at being analytical and logical and such. So should I consider a different career after HRT/transitioning? :-)

Cheers,
Maiko

[LeaP]

. If you are NOT - you will tend to feel anxious and depressed - as the hormones induce GD.

I've heard different versions of this. What my therapist has said is that she is had several patients who have started hormones and stopped. Some of them "didn't feel right." She said some of them were disturbed by the physical changes. Is this GD? I don't know. All of them thought themselves good candidates. She doesn't write letters unless she strongly believes them to be so. In the end, they were not.

I associate anxiousness and irritability with testosterone, not lack of estrogen. I would think that lowering testosterone in any male would calm them down. That's the effect on sex offenders when they treat them with anti-androgens. Estrogen, on the other hand, brings me clarity, presence, and a sense of being myself. When I started HRT, I was on anti-androgens alone at first. It did calm me down. It did not eliminate my experience of dissociation. That didn't happen until I was on estrogen for a period of time.

Regarding some of the comments on brain sex – whether or not the brain physically changes under the influence of hormones in adults, I don't know. It does during fetal development and later on in adolescence, but in adults? I recently posted a Journal of Clinical Endocrinology cite that mentioned one kind of dimorphic (sexed) adolescent brain development, in this case the "NKB system in the infundibular nucleus." This particular difference is driven by genetics, however, not by hormones, and having a female typical NKB system is characteristic of MtF transsexuals. To the extent that dimorphic differences in the brain are driven by hormones in adolescence, I suppose it's possible to have a partially masculinized, partially feminized brain.

[ReineD]

I'm a engineer by trade. This is a very male dominated profession and conventional wisdom says guys are better at being analytical and logical and such. So should I consider a different career after HRT/transitioning? :-)

No. :p I have a smaller brain size and I'm analytical to the point of having been criticized by my female peers (when I was younger), for thinking too much! lol. At the same time I'm empathetic and intuitive. I had an IQ test years ago and they determined that both my left and right brains are equal in strength, one does not dominate.

I think that general statements about male and female brain sizes, or analytical and spacial skills are just statements of averages. We all know that in actuality there are bell curves.

... besides, there are female engineers!



I associate anxiousness and irritability with testosterone, not lack of estrogen.

Leah, must anxiousness and irritability be tied to hormones? They are during adolescence, PMS, menopause and IMS, but lots of people both male and female are irritable and anxious outside of these times.

[Marleena]

I found a study on physical brain changes from use of cross-sex hormones. I sorta understand it says there are physical changes in size. Link:http://www.eje.org/content/155/suppl_1/S107.full.pdf

Don't shoot the messenger please!:)

[LeaP]

I suppose the best way to get some idea if this theory holds any water would to be to ask the girls who have been on hrt for at least a year or so if they have experienced any changes to their visual-spatial skills.

I'm 10 months in. At about 4-5 months I started experiencing changes to my depth perception and sense of perspective. The best way I can describe it is an enhanced sense of space, of dimensionality. It's still happening (or different), but I don't notice it so much anymore as I've become accustomed. It's subtle and hard to really tell if it's visual or perceptual or both. I also "feel" my surroundings more, which I attribute to reduced dissociation also.

I'm still a superb parallel parker!



[Lea], must anxiousness and irritability be tied to hormones? They are during adolescence, PMS, menopause and IMS, but lots of people both male and female are irritable and anxious outside of these times.

Reine, there's irritation and there's OH MY GOD, CATACLYSMIC, RUN FOR THE HILLS UNENDING SYSTEMIC IRRITATION (along with its best friends titanic anger and reactivity)! The first may not be hormonal, but the second sure was for me!

[Marleena]

There is very little written about the emotional effects from HRT but this is from WPATH if you like reading. http://www.wpath.org/journal/www.iiav.nl/ezines/web/IJT/97-03/numbers/symposion/ijtvo05no03_02.htm

[mary something]

I'm still a superb parallel parker!



thanks! How about balance and motion simultaneously? For example turning your head backwards to look behind while bike riding? Surfing, skiing?

I was guessing about the visual-spatial skills simply because those are some of the most taxing mathematical problems that the brain does, and would need more neurons for the job. It is anecdotal that sometimes ts women will say that their parking skills have diminished but certainly not evidence worthy of any kind of proof of correlation.

"The best way I can describe it is an enhanced sense of space, of dimensionality"
does it feel like your brain is using a different method of determing the space around you and how you occupy it? you used the word "feel", is it more of an emotional, intuitive, or logical type of thing?

[Badtranny]

but one of the most enlightening posts that I've ever read in this section was about the idea that prior to HRT, the writer (due to having had male libido) had mistaken her attraction to women as friends and sisters for a sexual attraction to women and that as you say, there had been a sexual attraction to men all along..

ahem,

it's okay to credit your source ya know. :-)

[LeaP]

It's hard to say, Mary. There is definitely a physical aspect – I feel in the space, part of it, where before I always felt like I was observing it, outside of myself. The perceptual parts I'm less sure of. On one hand, I notice perspective more. I notice diminishing perspective, distance, etc. Vistas that are complex, such as I'm looking at right now, can be breathtaking. I have seen amazing vistas all my life, of course. They never felt so organic, though. It's as if I apprehend motion and perspective and light and color all that once. Is that emotional? Intuitive? I don't know. I'm also startled more easily.

[mary something]

that sounds wonderful Lea :). Sounds like you are much more present in the world almost, like you are sensing it more than perceiving it now? Did you happen to have taken the Briggs meyer personality inventory before hrt and if so have you taken it lately? If that's not tmi I think it would be very interesting to see how it might have changed?

[TeresaL]

Lea, I'm lagging behind your experiences by several months. I'm only four months on estrogen. My emotions are like Dorothy's when she went from black and white to technicolor. There really is a yellow brick road! My world is now right side up. (I'm trying to find words to describe it, but it is so hard to convey all the myriad rainbow of changes). Metaphors do not do it justice, let me tell ya. I'm still adjusting. Heck, I even tear up walking into a flower shop. Flowers sure are pretty. :-)

[LeaP]

So, getting back to Paula, therapy and hormones can help in some ways, but don't fix things for everyone or forever. Teresa and I have been describing some positives, but I have my share of hell going on, too. See Anne's latest thread for another view of the dark side. Will transition fix things? Maybe ... depending. If what ails you is truly GD or GEDAD (Anne Vitale), yes, as uniformly reported. If not, well, the post-ops just as uniformly say it doesn't make anything else in your life better and makes some things a whole lot worse.

I completely get the aspect of survival that you brought up. There's variation in that too, though. I don't need to determine if I will survive or not any longer. I need to figure out if I care if I don't.

I've been saying for a while now that I can't really distinguish want from need any longer, the preceding being one illustration. Do you really know what you need and what you want?

[PaulaQ]

Hi Lea, I am pretty sure I need to transition. I'm am pretty sure I want to as well. (Wanting to happened after much inner turmoil and kicking and screaming.)

So my wife met Paula for the first time today. So I have a LOT more freedom to express myself at home. This should help a lot. I'm going to try to delay HRT until my emotional state is more stable. If, despite continued medical intervention and therapy my GD worsens, I'll try HRT sooner. But hormones are volatile, and I'm going to talk to another therapist, and be as sure about this as I can be. Really, there is no doubt in my mind, but since I'm handicapped as well, I want to be double sure I don't have some other type of body dysphoria, caused by my physical condition.

In the meantime, time to start electrolysis and voice coaching.

I also need to address my physical situation - I simply can't transition safely where I live now, some redneck will kill me. So I have to work that out.

I plan to come out to my kids, then the rest of my family soon. (Like before the end of the month soon.)

Thanks all for your perspectives.

[LeaP]

... since I'm handicapped as well, I want to be double sure I don't have some other type of body dysphoria, caused by my physical condition. ...

That's an interesting twist I have not heard before. Is this something you fear in yourself, that a therapist brought up, or ?? Obviously such a concern needs to be addressed, so your approach sounds reasonable.

I'm not sure what you mean by hormones being "volatile."

[Marleena]

Paula why even consider divorce or transition at this point? Your wife allowing you to dress has worked wonders for you. Why not just enjoy the new acceptance?

[mary something]

Make your goal being happy! Physical transition will take a few years no matter what, as circumstances change stay flexible in case your needs change also :)

[PaulaQ]

Paula why even consider divorce or transition at this point?

1. I attempted suicide over the weekend - this shit is real.
2. There are financial reasons for the divorce - we need to reside in different states, and I don't want to pay extra state income taxes, this will cost me 10's of thousands of dollars. And, divorce is inevitable, and we'd rather do it while we're in an emotional state where we aren't angry with one another.
3. As I said - this shit is real, and I am certain this is going to happen. I'm out to a bunch of people, and I'll be out to my entire family soon.



Is this something you fear in yourself, that a therapist brought up, or ??
I'm not sure what you mean by hormones being "volatile."

I'm not really afraid of this - my handicap causing my dysphoria - I have always scape-goated it for this, before I understood GD. However, just about everyone I know that I'm out to has brought this up, so - I'll check it out. It certainly complicates things, anyway. It may never be possible to untangle where one ends, and the other begins, entirely. Worth a look though.

As for hormones being volatile - hell, I don't know. All non-trans people I know, my doc, my therapist, etc. tell me they are volatile. I'm getting told two different things depending on who I ask. Trying to figure out if they'll make me emotionally more volatile - that's what I mean. Your thoughts on that would be GREATLY appreciated.

I am really tired of GD trying to kill me.

[Marleena]

Okay I'm out, I'm just upsetting you. Best of luck.:)

[arbon]

please stop trying to kill yourself Paula,
please stop considering it as an option.
what you are going through is not hopeless, its not!!!
when it feels like it is I hope you will reach out and talk things through before acting on it. you know there are people out there that care about you and that you can talk to. you know you can call me anytime day or night.

When I was deep in the crap like you and killing myself seemed inevitable all I can say is that I am so incredibly grateful that I was wrong because I have a pretty amazing life today.

Weather the storm and have some faith that it will get better.

hormones - volatile - you may experience a greater range of emotion, you'll probably be able to cry more :) - do you cry now?

[PaulaQ]

It's really OK Marleena. I'm not upset. I'm just being blunt. I was upset enough over this stuff - I hadn't done any type of cross gender expression in a week - that I tried to kill myself. This is real. It isn't going away.

Hey look, it takes forever to transition. If I discover, "yup, not for me", I'll be tickled pink. I just feel I don't have much choice but to proceed as if I'm going to transition. There are a BUNCH of places where I can jump off the bus if it isn't right for me. I'm sure it is - but it'll be a couple of months, AT LEAST before I start HRT. I'm going to dress as much as I can. I'll keep in therapy, and I'll stay on anti-depressants. If I feel differently - I will not be ashamed to post "nope, changed my mind, I'm just a CD." In fact, I'll be delighted. I'll also cash in my powerball winning ticket at the same time...

The financial reasons for my divorce are real too. Sucks, but it is what it is. Even if I don't transition - I can already tell you that where I'm living is just too hostile a place for a transgendered person to live fulltime. I can try to pretend that's not true - but it is. EVERY person from this town who's transgendered has moved. (You hear stories.) There are good reasons they've moved - it is conservative, and fundamentalist here.

I'm just telling you - ashamed as I am of my behavior over the weekend, I can only conclude from it that - This. Shit. Is. Real.

[arbon]

Hey look, it takes forever to transition.


its your time frame, as fast or slow as you want to go.

[KellyJameson]

There are things you can start doing now if you are going to go on HRT. One is lose all excess body fat particularly around the belly area and if you are a smoking I strongly urge you to quit.

You want to work toward being in the best possible physical condition you can be.

Exercise and nutrition are crucial and if you abuse alcohol or drugs this will only add to your problems

Your mind and body must be built up to have the strength to go forward.

It is a paradox that to survive the process you must be psychologically strong but to be psychologically strong you must transition.

It is an extremely invasive experience leaving you with no sense of privacy. It will strip you down like no other experience leaving you exposed in every sense imaginable.

Some commit suicide from living as a transsexual and some from trying to escape living as a transsexual.

Suicide is a shadow you always live within and even afterwards this shadow may haunt you.

You will have to fight for your life like you never have had to before.

You must go into this possessing a mental and physical strength or the very process will kill you.

Transitioning is not for the faint of heart and afterwards you will be shocked that you had the strength to do it.

You need to be brutally disciplined in all your life habits or you simply will not make it.

Think of it like surviving war because that is what it is.

You cannot afford to feel sorry for yourself when the enemy is shooting at you.

Mental toughness is mandatory.

[PaulaQ]

@arbon - yes, I realize suicide is no answer. It would devastate my family, and eliminate a promising life for me. I'm ashamed of myself, actually, for being so impulsive.

I'll do better at reaching out, I failed at that this weekend. I talked to my therapist and wife both about it, so they know to kind of watch me.

I am going to avoid getting close to that point again.

As for crying, I'd welcome being able to cry more.

[TeresaCD]

I'm just telling you - ashamed as I am of my behavior over the weekend, I can only conclude from it that - This. Shit. Is. Real.
Nothing to be ashamed of, Paula - we all have bad days. I am glad you are ok :)

[stefan37]

At least you realize transition is a marathon and not a race. Do what you can to feel comfortable and make progress. voice practice is free and the sooner you start the better. Electrolysis is another option to help you feel you are making progress.
Please seek help to quench thoughts and action on suicide. It will help no one and we would hate to see you expire so early. We will all die at some point, no use accelerating the process. We do care and will try ot help as much as possible.

I never thought of hrt as volatile. there are serious risks to consider for sure, but are easily managed with proper medical supervision. For me estrogen knocked my anxiety down from a 10-0 in 3 days, and I have yet to have a paralyzing anxiety attack since. I have been on estrogen for 1 years next week and for it was the best decision i have made in my life. It literally saved my life. I was poisoning my body and mind with unhealthy substances and have been alcohol and substance free for 18 months to date.

As for crying when the mood hits to cry, do not hold back let it go and let the tears fly. You will definitely feel better releasing the negative energy.