First couples counseling session

[Greenie]

Hey everyone!

So I wanted to share with you all that my SO and I went to our first couples therapy session yesterday. It was a mixture of both good and bad. The counselor was named Bill. Bill asked us what we wanted out of our sessions with him and we said to be able to communicate better about our wants and needs in all aspects of life but to also talk about the CDing and try to find out what this is and how we can make it work. I think the counselor was either unknowledgeable or uncomfortable about CDing because every time my BF or I mentioned it he would nod and then move on to something else. Like EVERY SINGLE TIME.

While we got some good information from him about how our communication styles are different because how we are raised and how that is what makes us have a hard time talking. I can't help but think he is not the right counselor for us. I don't know how to get him to talk about what WE came there to talk about. He also likes telling us stories that lead to analogies that barely make sense to what we were talking about. By the time he is done with his story he has eaten up 10 minutes of our time. It just FEELS selfish to type that. But at 145 dollars an hour, I feel jipped!

Have any of you guys ever done couples counseling? Obviously CDing isn't the only issue in the relationship, but its what brought us to him in the first place. How do you tell a counselor that you feel he is ignoring parts of the issues?


Oh about our communication issues, you guys will love this. we came to the conclusion that because my parents were alcoholics when I was a child and I was never able to communicate with them, I over communicate. I want to know EVERYTHING. All the time. When people don't share with me I feel unloved. Unwanted and frustrated. But on the other hand my BF doesnt like to share because he grew up with a father who thought emotions were a "womens thing" and being emotional and vulnerable was a weakness. So we are an oversharer and a neversharer trying to find balance. DAMN. ;)

[Jenniferathome]

Hi kay, move on. You both have to be comfortable with your counselor. Search out someone with some "transgender" experience. Recognizing what makes communication difficult is a great way to come to a fix.

Good luck

[Shelly Preston]

It would seem the counseller has little or no experience with TG issues since he keeps diverting the conversation. I would imagine he will have a busy week learing more so he will be better prepared for your next session.

I certainly hope you get more out of it next time around

[kimdl93]

The communications piece, it seems, was something your counselor clealy did a good job on...despite his anecdotes and apparent discomfort with CDing. I would say you got your money's worth on the topic of communications alone. Work on that with him and it will help, indirectly with issues related to CDing, because, these too are communications issues. I think you made a great start at counseling. If you feel, later, that the CDing wasn't adequately addressed, then seek out a qualified gender counselor.

[Kate Simmons]

While you don't need or want to have your ears "tickled" by hearing what you want to hear, I agree with most everyone else so far in that you need to find someone who is comfortable and knowledgeable with TG issues along with being empathetic. Good luck.:)

[Marleena]

Sounds like a good start Greenie. Why not ask him directly why he is avoiding the topic of Cding? You're paying good money and it's a priority for both of you. It might be that he's simply getting background on both of you first.

[~Joanne~]

I hate to say this but the counselor you guys saw sounds like a quack to me. I have never had much faith in them to begin with because at the core of what they do, we do here each and everyday, give advice from our own experiences. Apparently he doesn't have a bit of knowledge about CDing, or LGBT lifestyles as he kept changing the subject every time it came up.

As many times as it did you would think he would have stopped and said he wasn't the right counselor for your needs but he didn't. All he cared about was getting your money which he did. Even though he did give you a few good tid bits was it worth $145? No, you have every right to feel jipped.

I think you should find a counselor that has some knowledge about CDing first and foremost. Maybe call around and ask about it plus the other things that are important to you both so that your next visit is a better one where some progress is made with someone that fully understands the situations you need help with.

[Alice Torn]

I went to one, before i was cding, in 1990, but only twice. I was self employed, and could not afford it any more. Now, i see one at the VA, and though she is not that great, she does understand some TG things. I wish therapists would lower their prices. That creates a whole new crisis.

[Greenie]

We get three free session but we have to use someone in the "network" no one in the "network" has any TG specific experience. But when we told him about the CDing before we went and asked if he had any experience he said not "directly" but was willing to try. After the first visit I am not sure he is willing to try at all.

We can find a gender therapist but without any insurance that covers it, I don't think we can afford it.

[Cheryl Ann Owens]

While it would be ideal to have a counselor who has experience in gender issues, I believe that most insurance providers may not cover that specifically. Usually the handbook points that out. I started seeing a therapist mainly for my anxiety and depression issues so it only costs me the co-pay. At the same time though my therapist reports those issues as the reason for my visits. Luckily my therapist does have some understanding about my gender issues which are related to my anxiety and depression and we can talk about all of it. Hope this info helps.

Cheryl

[docrobbysherry]

I have been to couples counseling with 2 different therapists, with 2 different women and been to one on my own. Recently, we've been seeing one to help with my daughter's family issues.

At no time do I recall any of them wasting our paid for time together with their anecdotes or stories. After our time was done, we may have done some normal chatting.

The problem isn't so much that your therapist is wasting your time, it's that he's leading all of u away from the issues you're trying to work on! Good therapists r supposed to ask u pointed questions about what you're discussing. To either help u understand or hi lite issues for u to think about and work on.

I don't think my daughter's counselor is very good. However, she never distracts any of us from our discussion points.

The crossdressing sounds like a minor issue. Learning how to properly convey your feelings to your partner and him to do the same without going out of bounds for either of u sounds like the big issue for u 2. Maybe your present therapist senses that?

[mikiSJ]

It is your money, your time, your issues, your lives - if you don't think this counselor can offer any help - run!

Next time do your homework and interview the counselor on the phone before heading off to a meeting. Try to find someone in the CD/TG/TS community that can give you a solid recommendation for an EXPERIENCED counselor. You don't want to have to train someone on your $145/hour. Seattle has a lot of folk who you should be able to reach out to for a good recommendation. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

[Barbra P]

Based on what you wrote I’d say that Bill is not the right counselor for you. It definitely sounds like he has difficulty addressing your BF’s crossdressing. If you have difficulty talking to a counselor or the counselor has difficulty addressing your problem(s) then you are talking to the wrong counselor.

I broached the subject of my crossdressing with my Doctor and she asked that I speak with one of the Counselors in her Family Practice Module. I spent two hours with the Counselor and at the conclusion of the session she said she was going to put through a referral to the Psychiatric Department so I could se a Therapist with more experience dealing with TG issues. She added that she would screen the Therapists for me and pick one she thought was qualified and one I would be comfortable with – she did an excellent job screening. I liked my Therapist from the moment I met her. She explained that while she didn’t have a lot of experience with all aspects of the TG spectrum she would recommend another Therapist if she determined it was in my best interest. She is my Therapist and as such she cannot see my Wife as that would constitute a conflict of interest. She also cannot divulge what I say during the sessions to my Doctor even though the referral ultimately came from my Doctor. That doesn’t medical diagnoses, something like a medical condition like depression would be entered in my medical record and seen by my Doctor.

Unfortunately I can’t follow all of her advice. She would like me to spend more time as Barbra as she feels I have less anxiety and depression when I’m Barbra. She would also like me to see an endocrinologist and begin a low dose estrogen therapy to relieve anxiety and depression and to also see if it wouldn’t help with my BPH. However my wife is against it.

I’m lucky my insurance covers my therapy sessions except for a $5 co-pay and it would also cover HRT if my Wife would agree to it. Kaiser may even cover GRS in the future.

[Allison Chaynes]

Hi Greenie,

I'd first suggest getting a list of all the in network therapists, calling their offices and asking them what experience they have with it. Many do not list gender issues on their websites but do have some experience with it. The one my wife and I have used lets us do most of the talking. In fact, in five sessions we've had, I attended four solo and my wife attended one solo, we have not even gone together, and I don't feel like we even need to at this point. We've identified that crossdressing wasn't even much of an issue, more communicating and my previous job.

I'd imagine in Seattle you've probably got a lot more options available than you might realize. Good luck to you!

[sandra-leigh]

Keep in mind that, amongst other things, you are the therapists customer. If the therapist isn't being useful, then you shop somewhere else.

My wife and I went to some joint sessions with "L". It turned out that my wife is against therapy, so eventually it didn't work out. "L" listened to us talk about why we were there during the first session, and then during the second session asked some very pointed questions on a different issue that "L" saw as needing to be resolved before we could gain any benefit from solving the matters my wife and I had described. The pointed questions put both my wife and I "on the spot" and were not comfortable to think about, but I respected that "L" was being no-nonsense and zeroing in something my wife and I had been avoiding. It was not a "fun" experience, but it was quite thought-provoking.

I saw some therapists individually, eventually starting with "M". It just wasn't going all that well: I was spending too much time teaching "M" about transgender and transsexual issues; and the sessions didn't seem to be accomplishing much; and as we talked about other issues, "M" would keep asking whether the issue was triggered by my gender identity. Ummm? I may perhaps be a little self-centered at times, but somehow I can't see why they would lay off 73 people at work (including me) just because I was gender variant! So I was seriously contemplating telling "M" that it wasn't working, and then trying to find someone else.

Fortunately for me, the teaching medical clinic I had transferred to has a therapist on staff, and I started with "J" under a limited-session cost-covered program. The sessions with "J" have been going quite well, and we have covered a lot of ground. The clinic includes trans clients, so I didn't have to teach "J" about gender spectrum, and I didn't have to keep trying to establish that gender is just one part of my life. Such a difference compared to "M" !!

Meanwhile, "M" stopped notifying me of when "M" would be available ("M" does not live in town), so I have effectively quit seeing "M" without even having to Dear John "M" :)

Different therapists can make a huge difference. If Bill is dodging the main issue you came for, then Bill is not the right therapist, at least not for that issue. Now, it would be different if Bill had been saying "In this first session, let us establish some background first, and then let us allocate the second session to exploring the cross-dressing aspect in detail". There is legitimate prioritization and scheduling, and it will feel very different than dodging.

[NicoleScott]

Bill asked us what we wanted out of our sessions with him and we said to be able to communicate better about our wants and needs in all aspects of life but to also talk about the CDing and try to find out what this is and how we can make it work.

How do you tell a counselor that you feel he is ignoring parts of the issues?


Before you dump him (the counselor, that is) remind him that he asked what your counseling objectives were and that he seemed to avoid the CDing aspect. I think you just tell him.
He may have been unprepared to discuss CDing issues. If I were a fly on the wall of his office, I would bet that he is "brushing up" on the subject, maybe he's thinking something like "I must have sick the day they went over that in psych class:".

By the way, we're free, and collectively we are pretty well qualified on CDing matters. (Edit: I'm not suggesting that Greenie dump the counselor in favor of us, but just to remind that we are a resource.)

[Frédérique]

Bill asked us what we wanted out of our sessions with him and we said to be able to communicate better about our wants and needs in all aspects of life but to also talk about the CDing and try to find out what this is and how we can make it work.

When people don't share with me I feel unloved. Unwanted and frustrated. But on the other hand my BF doesnt like to share because he grew up with a father who thought emotions were a "womens thing" and being emotional and vulnerable was a weakness. So we are an oversharer and a neversharer trying to find balance.

Don’t you think that the two parts of your post, quoted above, are connected? Perhaps your SO is trying to overcome this dearth of paternal emotion by crossdressing, and this may be “what it is” and how you can “make it work,” at least in terms of semi-understanding…

I’m certainly not an expert, nor a therapist, but I also grew up in the shadow of a strong father, an atmosphere where boys are not supposed to express emotion, or care about things, or use one’s senses in a creative way. That may partially explain why the urge crossdressing may emerge, either sooner or later, depending on the will of the participant…

However, having to hide oneself away leads to this “neversharer” condition you refer to. I still suffer from it, and it runs counter to the joy one finds in crossdressing. At least the crossdresser is “on the road” to recovery along emotional lines, yet his rehabilitation is anything but assured…
:straightface:

[TeresaCD]

So we are an oversharer and a neversharer trying to find balance. DAMN. ;)
Being different is not a bad thing, Greenie.
Look at it this way - you are showing your DO it's ok to share more, your SO is showing you it's ok to share less. Each can bring the best out in the other. :)
You are the client - tell your counsellor where you need to go. I reckon the role is more about facilitation than answers, but that's me.
You can always exercise your rights as a consumer and go somewhere else.

[audreyinalbany]

especially with things like counseling, you need to pay attention to your feelings. If it doesn't feel like he's right, then he's not right. You could go to someone for a medical problem and you don't have to necessarily have a great rapport with him or her for them to diagnose and treat a physical disease, but for something as intimate as psychological counseling, I think you need to have a comfortable personal relationship with your counselor.

[Jaylyn]

I believe Nicole and Fredreique hit the nails on the head... along with some other great points, I am very fortunate to have a wife that understands my need to CD. You have on here some experience with the problems you discuss. Listen to them and tell the counselor your feelings toward his not confronting the real problems you need. Ask him his plans for how he is going to conduct the sessions and when he will give you some answers or suggestions. I also have never been impressed with counselors because many preach their feelings from what they experienced growing up in life and most listen to you till you give your own solutions. You and your partner can do a lot of mending by just talking to each other with love in your hearts and expressing how you each feel. The secret to communicating is being able to listen and understand why the other person feels the way they do. When each does that in a marriage or relationship then a solution may be worked out to each others best interest. I have found more on here that my my wife and I have had some deep discussions on that I feel I know her better than I ever did before in all 42 years before. This forum is a golden place to learn. Thanks all my CD friends and good luck Greenie..........jaylyn

[Stephanie47]

My experience with couples counseling has nothing to do with cross dressing. Usually a counselor will meet with each person separately before jointly. That's somewhat difficult to do with three sessions with no charge. How does one partner really get to tell his or her side of the issue with the other sitting there? It may end up like walking on egg shells. I get a feeling from your prior postings that the cross dressing is not a real big issue. You're on board with it. There may be some fine tuning needed on the cross dressing issue. However, that may be part of the communication issue.

If the counselor has no background in transgender/cross dressing issues that may not be the best therapist for you your SO. On the other hand, maybe, the cross dressing issue is really not the issue at all. Why do you think cross dressing is an issue?

[Jenniferathome]

We can find a gender therapist but without any insurance that covers it, I don't think we can afford it.

Direct experience is ideal, but working with someone you feel good about is MORE important. Are they open minded and do they show it? Find someone you connect with. That's job one.

[Greenie]

Sorry guys for not responding in a little bit I was at work!

@nicolescott: You guys have been some of the best therapy I can ask for. now PLEASE someone tell my BF that. he has an aversion to the internet. When I told him he needed ten posts to private message people he was all, GOSH REALLY 10 WHOLE POSTS. lol

@Cheryl: You are right. My insurance doesnt cover it. :(

@mikisj: My SO DID phone interview him. I trusted him to ask the right questions. But. Alas. MEN. LOL. :) ;)

@ lots of people: CDing is not an "issue" per say. but my SO is bad at communication about wants and needs in general (E.G why the whole communication part of the session was so helpful). I am a pretty darn awesome SO when it comes to acceptance :), It would be nice to discuss where this leaves us in a sexual nature. So I think maybe even a SEX therapist instead of a gender one. We have really good sex, but he is wondering if he is bisexual, he wants to me to try things I am not super comfortable with doing (I have even tired) and he wants to try things I cannot provide. I guess I want to talk to someone to see if getting married is a realistic expectation for both of us.

Everyone has things that the "want" but that doesn't mean they get them right?

Also I mean I kinda liked bill in general and I think a lot of you were right. He was trying to get a feel for US and who WE are separately and together. I think that given the options in the network that are covered by our insurance, him being "open" and not reacting to the CDing might make him a better fit. At least this session and the next two are free under insurance. My SO says he likes him and wants to keep with him. Sooooo..... yeah.

[Beverley Sims]

I have sat in whils others have done counseulling and it is an eye opener as both sides try to points score and avoid blame from their side.
Remember it takes two to tango.

[Greenie]

beverly. I would hope couples who indeed feel they are ready for counseling do not waste it with that behavior. One would be a fool to assume they are innocent of mistakes. You can only be part of the solution if you admit a hand in the problem
.

[Emogene]

Good evening Greenie!

My SO and I often have problems with communication. The issue is not so much our upbringing or experiential as we are male and female.

We have concluded that women tend to talk with other women to achieve the "perfect plan"; so there is much communication and fine tuning when women speak.

Men on the other hand seem to speak with a view of conveying the basic information needed to get the job done. Example, there is a bear, lets kill it, bear dead. No finess, just go bludgeon the bear until it gives up the ghost. Women on the other hand plan who is going to put out the invites, select the best weapon, determine how the least mess will be created, and who is bringing the refreshments. In both instances the bear ends up dead. The point is that men tend to assume that other men know how to kill the bear and get down to business. Period.

Our solution, to create a better communication model is that my SO will say "man speak", she is saying that she needs more information in order to assess the situation to her confort level. Since it is a preplanned and known phrase, I can respond without rancor. I just know I was not giving her what she needed in the way of information.

Maybe it would help you guys.

Hang in there, true love is worth the effort!

[Amanda M]

Greenie - I rather suspect that Bill was trying to gauge where and how your therapy needs to progress, and I would be disinclined to dump him just yet. If you feel he IS avoiding CD issues, then ask him if he is, and why. Getting you both to communicate better is a necessary start, if your communication is poor - it leads yo both to a better understanding of your situation, and helps one to he;p the other understand your/his position without ambiguity.

Hang on in there unless it is apparent that Bill really does want to duck handling the CD issues that are there.

All of that said, $145 per hour? Maybe I should move to the States!

Best,
Amanda

[sandra-leigh]

Therapy is $C160 / hour here...

[Jackie7]

In my experience, Greenie, therapy and therapists are a double-edged sword. Of course your mileage will vary, but mine could be a cautionary tale.

When I sought a gender specialist with lots of trans experience, I wound up being encouraged toward HRT and transition. The trouble was, I am not a candidate for transition, I am a hetero male CD. The therapist used the tools she had to fit me into the wrong box, the one she knew best. This accelerated the disintegration of my marriage. In despair, my then -wife and I switched to an experienced couples counsellor who had no CD experience. She correctly saw that our issues were complex and my dressing was only one of many between us, and she led us first, to a one -year experiment in holding it together, and when that fell apart, she guided us through a mostly amicable divorce. We were much better served by her than by the gender specialist.

[DonniDarkness]

Greenie,

Your therapist admittedly told you he had no experience with Crossdressing and transition. I find this peculiar, but understandable.

When you are asking him about TG or CD questions and he is derailing the subject towards something he has experience with, He is doing this because he thinks you two have problems with communication. The stories and analogies are a way for him to keep the both of you from fixating on what is bothering you individually, and move you two into a place where you can bring the communication between the two of you to a place that allows both of you to be heard. If the two of you have better communication with each other then you will be better equipped as a couple to deal with what bothers the both of you regarding CDing. If your equipped with the communication skill set, then as a couple, the woes of CDing and Transgenderism become a much easier situation to tackle together.

1st therapy sessions are always brutal. Keep it up and Talk more, Listen more and Love more.

-Donni-

[WandaRae2009]

It is important to do your homework first, and find one that specializes in Gender Issues. Check with local support groups for recommendations. My wife and I went to one such counselor. We purposely found one that was an hour away, my wife was terrified of running into someone we knew. It saved our marriage, we wouldn't be together today without the proper counselor.

[Stephanie47]

Greenie, I think your statement is at the center of the issue. Acceptance by a woman of her man's desire to cross dress is not the same as accepting sexual behavior that one desires or needs to participate in. I'm in a DADT marriage. My wife knows of my desire to wear women's clothing. She wants nothing to do with it. That's fine with me. You're accepting. However, I am getting the impression your SO wants to travel a road you're not comfortable with. You should NOT go against your personal values just because you love your SO. He should recognize your limitations.

If he is wondering whether or not he is bisexual, he has an issue he needs to explore in SEPARATE counseling. Or at least the sessions should be separate before coming together in a COUPLES setting. There is no way he can fully open up to a counselor with his partner sitting there.

And, you are correct in whether or not you want to get married with these issues unresolved. Much is always said on this site that the woman should let the man develop himself, where ever that may lead. Basically, on many of these threads the woman is told to be subservient to the wishes of the transgendered male. Do not lose site of who you are and whether your values and needs are going to be met with any particular man.

There is always a limitation of acceptance.



@ lots of people: CDing is not an "issue" per say. but my SO is bad at communication about wants and needs in general (E.G why the whole communication part of the session was so helpful). I am a pretty darn awesome SO when it comes to acceptance :), It would be nice to discuss where this leaves us in a sexual nature. So I think maybe even a SEX therapist instead of a gender one. We have really good sex, but he is wondering if he is bisexual, he wants to me to try things I am not super comfortable with doing (I have even tired) and he wants to try things I cannot provide. I guess I want to talk to someone to see if getting married is a realistic expectation for both of us.

Everyone has things that the "want" but that doesn't mean they get them right?

[giuseppina]

beverly. I would hope couples who indeed feel they are ready for counseling do not waste it with that behavior. One would be a fool to assume they are innocent of mistakes. You can only be part of the solution if you admit a hand in the problem
.

Hello Greenie

You have a good attitude entering therapy. Too many expect confirmation and are upset when they don't get it.

Taking heat (and not the projectile variety) is to be expected. Your husband has to take heat as well, as he has to be part of the solution as well.

As others have suggested, asking your therapist why he is shunting the CD issue aside is a good idea. If he isn't willing to acknowledge its existence, I would be inclined to look elsewhere. It's almost like he is judging you, and once that happens, he probably can't help you because credibility is lost.

The biggest problems are caused by those who refuse to admit a problem exists.

[ReineD]

We get three free session but we have to use someone in the "network" no one in the "network" has any TG specific experience. But when we told him about the CDing before we went and asked if he had any experience he said not "directly" but was willing to try. After the first visit I am not sure he is willing to try at all.

We can find a gender therapist but without any insurance that covers it, I don't think we can afford it.

I had an issue a few years ago, finding a specialist for something when there were no in-wetwork specialists in my area. The insurance company wanted me to go out of state. I complained and said this was too much, that I wanted to see someone nearby. They balked a little, but then agreed to let me use someone locally, as long as he or she agreed to their terms. As far as I know, most insurance companies have similar terms so I don't see this as being a problem.

So don't give up, and do look for someone who is familiar with gender issues. Look for someone who is younger, I think that everyone has a chapter or two about this in their training now. lol. I do agree that you don't want to waste your time and money on someone who is not helpful to your particular needs.