GD, HRT, and LIBIDO

[I Am Paula]

In the years that led up to me finally deciding that my GD had become unbearable, I have enjoyed sex less and less. In the last year it has decreased to zero. I love my wife, and find her attractive, but the thought of using a penis that at best I'm not on speaking terms with, and at worst I want gone, just holds no interest at all. We enjoy cuddling, and some forms of release for her, but I'd just rather not 'do it'. I don't feel any sort of need for release, and even a couple attempts at masturbation were of little interest.
Did any of you girls experience this. As the hormones kick in , can I expect any kind of return of libido. I don't care to ever have intercourse again, but I have no interest in doing ANYTHING.
Living happily is far more important to me than sex, but I have to wonder if I'm resigning myself to asexuality. As the HRT resolves other conflicts (fingers crossed) might I also come to terms with my dislike of sex?
Please- your thoughts or experiences, cause if this is uncommon, I'll look for some help.

[CharleneT]

....hmmmm.... honestly, this is not a great subject for a bunch of people spread across the globe to answer. You need/should talk to your wife, and a therapist - in that order.

That said I will share that for me, HRT did not increase -or- decrease libido. It most certainly CHANGED everything I knew or thought I knew about that subject. But "up or down" ?? Cannot say which.

"Living happily" is more important than sex you say .... do you also believe that it is more important than any other thing in your life ?? I mean that very litterally. Because that is what HRT will bring: change like you cannot imagine, predict or "handle". Do not go there unless you are willing to loose everything in your life. I am sorry if I sound "scary". But dem is da facts. Sex is one aspect, but I think you are wondering about a much larger question ??

[Angela Campbell]

I don't know. I have not started HRT yet but I have not had any desire for quite a while now. It is the furthest thing on my mind. I am not even interested in a relationship.

[Kathryn Martin]

It is the anti androgens that completely kill libido. Once you have had surgery (if it is what you want) then libido does return and with a vengeance but oh so differently.

[Marleena]

Celeste I would listen to Kathryn and Charlene as far as the libido goes. Mine has been low all my life with no medical reason. I see mine as being lower still after being on HRT for a year.

It is known kill to libido (lower it significantly) in a normally functioning person. That is why you'll see members warning Cder's wanting to take hormones for the wrong reasons.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The mantra is HRT is unpredictable..

all we can say is generally speaking..... and in my case.........

what you are experiencing is something many have experienced ...its a matter of degree

one benefit of srs is that you stop taking the antiandrogens, plus you feel good about your sexual organs instead of what you feel now...your libido may or may not come back but generally speaking it does..and generally speaking you have good sexual feelings, but sometimes they are limited...

[Ann Louise]

Same with me Celeste, a few months into HRT and my libido seems to have vanished, along with my fabricated, past "self." I wonder some times about whether it's a good or a bad thing, and have concluded that the peace, love and kindness that is welling up in my heart has far counterbalanced that diminishment of libido. Good riddance. Here's a quote that I've carried around for many years and I had no idea of it's ultimate applicability to my life:

“How well I remember the aged poet Sophocles, when in answer to the question, How does love suit with age, Sophocles —Are you still the man you were? Peace, he replied; most gladly have I escaped the thing of which you speak; I feel as if I had escaped from a mad and furious master.”

— from The Republic, Plato

Take care Celeste, and be happy, Ann

[mary something]

Celeste I cannot speak of hrt but I have felt similar detachment from that part of my anatomy my entire life. I have found it helpful to simply think of it as one part of my body, with no more or less importance to me personally than an elbow or a heel for example. Our culture of course enshrines this part of the anatomy and places much more value to it than I think is appropriate. When it comes to intimate relations in essence aren't we simply sharing our bodies with each other? There are many parts of the body that can be used to share intimacy and I'm not being critical but for me I saw it as an opportunity to shed some of the male thinking that was conditioned into my consciousness to come to this realization.

As far as achieving release I can offer my observations about myself and perhaps there are similarities. I find that there is no moment in my life where I feel any more masculine than immediately after release. Chemically our brain "resets" itself within seconds, it is a biological reaction and nothing more, and it is a hallmark of maleness that can be unwelcome if someone is trying to embrace the opposite gender pole. I think a lot of people who dress for gender expression purposes in comparison to sexual purposes can easily be confused and unsure of themselves if they sometimes pleasure themselves while dressed. This is conjecture and not necessarily true for anyone but myself but looking back at myself I see now that I was using that biological mechanism to try and control my self-expression. In essence nothing helped me "man up" more than hitting the reset switch and switching my brain over as far as it could go to the M side.

Having said this is it possible that perhaps at this stage in your life and self-awareness that you also are trying to avoid masculinizing experiences? If so then there are ways to find a compromise that still allows you to live a full life while also feeling comfortable in your own skin.

[sandra-leigh]

The day that I decided that Yes, I will start HRT, was the day that my physical response first dropped sharply, including typical "involuntary" (automatic) response. Release was still possible, but I stopped thinking about it as much and when I did take action it took longer to start, but the mechanisms did still work. This was, to reiterate, before I had taken a single pill.

Not much changed when I went on spiro and later estrogen, except that on the few occasions that I bothered to try, the physical response took longer and longer over time, and volume reduced.

After a time, my interest in reading erotic stories started increasing again, and there would be some involuntary physical response accompanying that, but I didn't have much interest in taking action on it.

Fast forwarding a bit, after about 1 2/3 years I was taken off anti-androgens. A few weeks later I noticed that I was reading more erotic stories and that I was getting more involuntary response, and had more interest in taking action -- but when I did take action, it was somewhat slow to start and there was not much volume. A few weeks later the interest in taking action waned again. I happened to have a T test in the middle, so I know that during that time of renewed physical interest, my T levels had gone back up to about 9 (still a fair bit below typical male.) But during those few weeks, Yes, that internal pressure to Do Something Sexual was there. That internal pressure that pushes and pushes for hours or days until one finds release is what I think of when I think of "libido".

My T levels continued to fall after that, as did my internal pressure to find release. Now a days my E levels are fairly high and my T levels are very low -- but I find that my interest in reading erotic stories is getting higher again, and there is some internal pressure towards release, the internal build-up, but certainly slower and less intense than before. Some involuntary response is returning, but the voluntary response is quite low, with trying to take action feeling really silly for a fair number of minutes, and with no actual release happening (after pelvic tension the interest and response just suddenly goes away as-if something had happened), with the only volume being some scant amounts of lubrication.

Now, during all of this, whether I felt any internal pressure (what I think of as "libido") or not, I still had some interest in reading erotica, which trended more and more towards "romance that included sex", with my finding myself skipping or skimming the actual sex scenes a fair bit of the time. I really don't know what to call this interest, which continued whether there was any physical response (voluntary or involuntary) or not. I never stopped liking the idea of sex, and I could look at female nudity and enjoy it, and I still knew well whether I found any particular instance attractive or not -- but while I was doing the viewing, my parts were not stirring at all.

Throughout this, I have not at all lost the idea that my wife is attractive, and I still feel that if my wife would only have some interest that I would be happy to try to please her. I have no reason to think that kissing would be any less fun, for example. Foreplay still sounds pretty good to me, even though I don't get much sense that I would care that it didn't end in my release, as long as my wife paid some attention to other parts of my body.

I get the impression that even if I were to stop HRT at this point, that my male physical mechanisms are pretty far gone, and that even if I stopped HRT that I might not be able to penetrate again, no longer able to sustain firmness for more than a 20 or 30 seconds-ish. (I don't know, maybe viagra would work.) The prospect does not bother me. But at the same time, if at some point I find that some kind of orgasm starts happening for me... that would be nice.

I still remember the feel of brushing my lips over my wife's shoulder-blades, and I still would like to do so, and if that sort of interest were to vanish for me, I would feel that I had lost something valuable. But at the same time, valuable does not mean indispensable. I do still long for physical intimacy, intercourse certainly not required. Cuddling with my head on my wife's chest still feels good.

I do not wish for asexuality. I have no dislike for my male parts, but losing their physical sexual function was an acceptable trade-off for me.

What would be hard on me, at least during this part of my life, is if somehow or other I became fairly sexual again -- hard on me because I would have no outlet for that sexuality. Still, I wouldn't refuse such a gift :D

[KellyJameson]

What you describe sounds eerily familar but I have always felt this way and have never felt like sex was "natural" with a woman so I would experience a type of physical dissonance like the wiring inside my head was not wired to be doing what I was trying to do and I had this experience strongly the very first time I tried intercourse and intercourse never has felt "normal"

I have never sexually desired a woman with that strong animal urge you see displayed in the world. That is completely missing in me and always has. It feels like my sexuality was never "born" or "created"

I had the physical body designed for sex with a woman but a brain that was not designed for it so I would try to force my brain (me) to fit my body through the act of sex but it was work so I was manipulating myself either physically or psychologically with mind tricks.

I could not tolerate the experience and gave up on sex when I realized I could not "fix myself" with sex.

For me the biological forces that affected my sexuality also created my GD but yet I have never had an interest in sexual relations with homosexual men but certain straight men I could see myself with but only with a body that complemented theirs as its opposite so I was locked out of my "natural sexuality"

Transitioning may or may not give you back your sexuality and it is somewhat influenced by age but I suspect also by how the deepest parts of your brain are structured for sex as a woman.

In my opinion there is a relationship between the severity of gender dysphoria and the ability to experience an orgasm after transitioning because the source of gender dissonance and sexual dissonance come from the same place.

Once again this is only an opinion but the more " Life Problems" you had sexually before transitioning the less you will have afterward "IF" the problems were caused by this extreme experience of disssonance between self (brain) and body.

Gender identity and sexual identity affect each other but for most people they are the same thing so there is no conflict created between them.

When there is a split between the two that is when the difficulties arise.

I have always had gender identity problems since the first years of life and I have always had sexual problems because both are biologically based problems experienced psychologically.

Your will power cannot rewire your brain. You can bend gender and sex but you cannot re-write it so you will always return to your "default settings" as sex and gender and many homosexuals know this by trying to force themselves to be heterosexual causing themselves and the women they were with much grief.

Society treats gender identity as a "social construct" but sexual identity as "biological" but someday it will be shown that gender identity has a biological basis and all of it is an expression of brain structure and how hormones work at a cellular level.

All of our identities have a biological basis and are biologically driven.

[Tammy V]

I am on anti androgens and estrogen, have almost no T and my libido has not really been affected, it has changed though. Some people say their libido becomes decreased and some say it dies completely but I have not had that experience.

[TeresaL]

Sandra, your post expands on several of the others about diminished libido and ejaculation. Also gone for me, is the OC dressing which would control me instead of me controlling it. For me, to dress provided a great emotional relief, and now, HRT is the greater relief of dysphoria. Although with dressing, I still do receive an added boost, and feel at home. I haven't tried pleasuring myself while dressed though, since being on HRT. I'm more partner oriented, I think. My wife's libido is lower than mine, so no action for us. We are best friends though, and I would take Viagra if she wanted to get "lucky." I'm pretty sure that wont happen, besides, what would I do with the next four hours? LOL

Is it possible that testosterone toxicity is not a factor in all of us? If so, then perhaps for those who's testosterone is not a toxin, maybe the effect of HRT on libdo and dressing also may not be an issue either. Just guessing.

But HRT has me riding high on relief from all that angst now, and it's the best of all the other circumstances I've been through. While not perfect, HRT is every bit as important for me as blood pressure medication. I can never go back.

[kellycan27]

Couldn't decreased libido also simply be attributed to getting older in addition to the effects of HRT? I started HRT at 24 and while I did lose the ability to get an erection my sex drive didn't seem to diminish much if at all. Sex became more satisfying emotionally than physically.. Post op my sex drive got even stronger and the physical pleasure returned along with the emotional.

[TeresaL]

Couldn't decreased libido also simply be attributed to getting older in addition to the effects of HRT?

Yes, if we experience andropause, then testosterone levels are greatly reduced, and can go below the male range. Estrogen then, may increase, and man-boobs may develop amongst other things. Emotions may change too, and makes a tough guy into a softy.

Which reminds me. I was on HRT over fifteen years ago, and did not loose libido. My desire to transition was very strong, and I was proceeding much faster then today. I crashed and burned though. Big difference from this time around, and my loss of libido and response to HRT is very likely due to andropause and old age, I guess.

Things don't stay the same, and then we pay taxes and die. I hope I will get the gender and body I always wanted when I change worlds, if there are worlds to change. I will be 27 again and voluptuous. Pretty too. LOL. Just dreaming.

[kellycan27]

Kind of a double whammy!

[Nicole Erin]

Celeste I cannot speak of hrt but I have felt similar detachment from that part of my anatomy my entire life.
I don't think it always has to do with HRT with feeling "Detached" from it. I mean back around 1993, even John Bobbitt went thru a short phase when he felt detached from his. He is not TG in any way....

ANYWAYS - I have kind of been on and off HRT a few times so no expert here but I remember libido kind of getting shot down. Self-service was kind of boring. I mean like in the bedroom, not like when you go to fill up your car with gasoline.

What I wonder is - if libido shuts down, how does it magically come back after SRS?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

if your libido decreases it descreases....libido is about desire...if you don't desire, over a short period of time it wont matter nearly as much as you think..

libido can increase if you have the right parts because for the first time in your life you are feeling congruent and whole...it creates confidence in your body and yourself ...for a woman libido is a more complicated animal..its about more than Testosterone..

[TeresaL]

Yes, kaitlyn, desire is it, and desire encompasses more than loss of sex drive to those of us who experience going south instead of north. Yet our medication does work for us in that our GD is greatly diminished. We are freed from mental anguish that I accredited to stress from daily life, when it was indeed gender expression deprivation anxiety disorder. Big time.

When you say, "over a short period of time," do you mean the GD returns, and requires more medical attention?

As it stands today, with HRT, my gender expression only changes on an occasional basis. Even then, it is no longer OC and out of control. It is just an added layer of comfort.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

over a short means that it wont take long for you to forget about your old libido, and just live with your new libido..

it may different if you are not transitioning...

[charla42]

I have found that over time my Libido has gone down to nothing. AT the same time I have found that the mental aspects of being on Hormones is very soothing and my GD as TeresaL stated is no longer OC (Out of Control). I have found my Confort Zone