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kellycan27
05-27-2013, 03:29 PM
A lot of emphasis is put on the importance of ones transition. How much thought have you put into living post transition? Realistic thought and some sort of basic plan (things change). Living as a woman brings on a whole new set of challenges.
Out of the frying pan into the fire sort of a thing.
A lot of the focus seems to be in getting there and living a "real" and " genuine" life and very little on surviving post. ( transition).... Just saying. :straightface:

mary something
05-27-2013, 03:35 PM
That is a question I ask myself, and hopefully the life changes I have made over the last few years will turn out how I hope they do. Kelly your advice would be very valuable on this topic. Can you pass on some of the lessons you have learned?

Rianna Humble
05-27-2013, 03:39 PM
I would think that the planning would be very different at your age than at mine.

I am making some plans that I hope are realistic assuming that I can overcome the medical problems that are stopping me from having surgery.

Until that time, I would not feel happy even thinking about relationships. My job won't get any better post transition, but then again it shouldn't get any worse.
I may get back involved with representing people around where I live provided that the political party is as open-minded as the residents that I used to represent.

Unfortunately, because of the unwanted publicity that surrounds almost everything I do, I cannot just fade into the woodwork.

kellycan27
05-27-2013, 04:24 PM
Agreed that my plan may not work for you, but I think we can each give it some thoughts based on individual circumstances. It's probably going to be a crap shoot at best, but anything that we can do to try and ease it up a bit could be of help.
I had a pretty long RLE, more by circumstance than by design. I concentrated on getting an education and saving as much money as I could. Saving for the cost of transition and getting a good education for the possibility of getting a good job post transition with the further possibility of having no one to depend on other than myself. I shied away from relationships.. I had no time for that. Dating now and then had to suffice, which wasn't all that hard considering the choices in the dating pool for a newbee transsexual. I was ok to spend a little time with or for sex, but nobody was anxious to take me out in public or home to meet their parents. This thread isn't really about my plan or how I did it, but rather the importance ( or not depending on your thoughts) of thinking and planning ahead for life after transition based on your own particular set of circumstances.

Amy A
05-27-2013, 04:27 PM
Well I'm hoping that I'll be happier for a start, and that I'll be able to continue building my career. Beyond that, there are two many variables to be able to make a plan. I'm getting everything in place to provide some stability over the next three years, once I'm on the other side I'll be more informed and more able to see what the future might be like for me.

Like Mary says though, it would be interesting to hear your experiences/life lessons on this subject.

Debglam
05-27-2013, 04:53 PM
A lot of the focus seems to be in getting there and living a "real" and " genuine" life and very little on surviving post. ( transition).... Just saying. :straightface:

Something I have thought about quite a bit. To avoid the slings and arrows, let me be clear that I consider the fact that NONE of us can fully understand what is right or wrong for another of us as gospel. We can have opinions, offer advice, think about another's situation but with that said none of us can completely step into another's shoes.

As someone who admittedly does not feel the level of gender discord (innate gender vs. physical body) to compel me to transition I have often wondered where rational analysis comes into play. Personally, I am a planner by nature. Post-transition planning would seem to not only be critical but part of the decision to transition or not. What are you gaining and what are you losing? Do you consider, as Kelly suggests, what you will do for a living as a woman, where you will live, etc. It would seem to me that the overall quality of life before and after transition would be the basis of any decision making. The women that I know or know of who have successfully transitioned (think Jenny Boylan) planned out what their post-transition life would be. Of course luck plays a part but the idea of starting something as significant as transition with little or no idea of the end game would be terrifying for me, and dare I say foolish. Or is the compulsion always so great that the need to transition is like putting out a fire and worrying about rebuilding the house later? Even if it is that great, can it be held in check until a viable life plan is put in place?

kellycan27
05-27-2013, 04:53 PM
One of life's lessons for me was how important it is not bite the hand that feeds you. :doh: When I came out to my parents I didn't do it in hopes of getting their support.. I did it to piss them off because because I was unhappy with them. I told them as a matter of fact that I was planning on transitioning whether they liked it or not and that they could do their best to thwart me, but they couldn't stop me... And out the door I went ( at their urging). I was 17 and a recent high school grad. They took away my car, my allowance and any hope I had of attending USC ( I'd already been accepted). They did eventually relent and pay my college tuition and for books and partial housing.... although not at SC.( my dad did that.. As far as my mom was concerned I could go pound sand).
I had no baggage and nobody to have to answer but I did have to learn self reliance.
To my parents credit they did teach me the value of education, independence and speaking up for myself.
That's when I decided that in order to succeed .. I'd need some sort of a plan.
I also have to admit that there was a fair amount of fantasy ... Becoming some beautiful and desirable young woman and living happily ever after. As far fetched as it may have seemed.. It did supply some incentive to stay the course.

Michelle.M
05-27-2013, 05:14 PM
I have mixed feelings about this.

Of course, having a plan is always the best idea. Not only as a hedge against the uncertainties of life but because transition has a lot of steps to it and the biggest step is what happens after surgery, or what happens after you decide that you'll move ahead without surgery.

So what then? I hardly see anyone who has a clue. It's all about getting to the Promised Land and no idea of what happens once you arrive there.

In my case I had all sort of plans, well laid out and detailed, and they all crumbled due to a variety of unforeseen circumstances.

I thought I'd have no problem getting a job, but I didn't understand that the job market for veterans is a lot tougher than it ought to be. 14 months later I'm still unemployed. So I decided I needed to make my own opportunities and am (hopefully) going to grad school next term. Not part of the plan. Old plan crumbled, new one will probably be much better.

I thought I'd wait until I was post-op before I even thought about dating. Instead, I decided to just give it a whirl with no expectations beyond a lunch date or even just coffee. I ended up with a really great relationship that has had a very positive effect on my transition. We've been together a year now. Not part of the plan. Old plan didn't last, new one has made everything much better.

I thought I'd never set foot in a church again after hearing too much transphobic and homophobic nonsense from so-called Christians. Incredibly I heard about an accepting church and I went for just a visit, and it's been fabulous. I have great friends and a warm, loving environment, and I have been there over a year. I even became a member. Not part of the plan.

Sure, I had a plan, and I'm glad it didn't work out.

Jhustagurl
05-27-2013, 05:19 PM
I definitely have a plan for life after transition, and have given it much thought. I have worked very hard in my life to this point to build a safe, secure, and productive life, and my plan is to continue doing just that. Knowing years in advance that I would transition, i worked extra hard to position myself as a highly valued employee, an asset that my company would be reluctant to lose, especially to a competitor. I have also slowly built a solid and supportive social environment so as to have people in my corner in my previous life leave, as they have done. What I didnt or couldnt prepare for was the saddness and emptiness that now lives where my wife and daughter once did. That loss has been really tough, and i hope i get thru it. It has been a year, and the wound is still bleeding. One final thing that is really helping is my ongoing relationship with my therapist. While I started with her to get a "letter" almost three years ago, the work we do together now is essential for me now.

Kelly, i absolutely agree with you that one must have a vision for the future in this. It is a tough enogh road as it is without building for what comes next. If i had to name one thing that is critical to long term success it would be obtaining the education and/or training needed to be comfortably self-supporting before getting too far down this path

mary something
05-27-2013, 06:36 PM
Jhustagirl- the first year is the hardest when you lose a marriage from my personal experience, the second year was much better. I know perhaps this sounds silly but it really helps to have something to fill the void that is left in your time and life. I don't know if you are an animal lover or not, but you'll never have a better sleeping buddy and all around perfect companion than a little dachshund. having a good therapist is a great asset too, my gt has helped me so much too.

arbon
05-27-2013, 06:41 PM
Not really I've just been working it out as I go.

Kathryn Martin
05-27-2013, 07:24 PM
surviving post. ( transition)

Post surgery I experienced how much what I had done was just the foundation for what was to come. Something no one prepared me for what came next. Becoming whole is truly special when you have been crippled in some way for such a long time. It did not take a long time to realize that no one ever taught me to walk on healthy legs if you will. The years prior to transition have left marks, burdens and now it was and is time to make peace with them. For me this has become the real work of transition. What was before as important as it is was just a leveling of the field. But all the plants I had grown, all the weeds that had grown all the undergrowth of a life lived need to be cleared and they slowly are.

It is interesting if you work in a profession like mine how much credit you get by just being a man. No matter how much I did not assume this privilege losing it slowly, being communicated with as who I am, and understanding the need to now, finally dismantle these vestiges of a life lied for years is a matter of survival. For me understanding that my survival instincts who were suppressed for such a long time in favor of learned survival strategies was hard, difficult and unfamiliar. But for me it had to be and continues to be done, every day, every minute and my life. Allowing yourself to be, and not to permit yourself to continue the familiar because it is easier and often so much more convenient is a loving struggle with yourself. I was not taught by my mother and sisters how a woman dates a man. I know what is expected of him but in the moment not to let myself fall back on the known; but to experience how I would be in that moment informed, unconsciously by my upbringing, which I did not have brings a brightness of awareness to every moment of my life that is at times glorious, amazing and also painful.

I am a 59 year old women but the knowledge that I am barren has lived with me since I was a young girl surviving with a nasty disability. I still grieve for that girl that became a woman so late in life, with her and with me. I am one of those women who has never experienced the joys of becoming and then being a mother. I am now finally free to go to places in my life where going to earlier would have ended my life. And as painful and as hard this is at times I would not miss it. I have written about some of this on this board before, but the Promised Land for me is in sight and in reach. And I will survive to reach it.

It is an illusion to think you will be there once you transition physically and socially. Think about it like this, you align your body, you align your soul, your emotional anchoring in the world, but what of the spirit. If it finds it alignment, then and only then you will have reached the place you seek to reach. My thoughts!

DaniG
05-27-2013, 09:21 PM
Sure, I had a plan, and I'm glad it didn't work out.

"Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans."

While I have no problem with making a good plan, post-transition life is years away. It seems unrealistic to make any plans that I have any confidence of following with. The advice I glean on this site even says to expect your transition plans to change, often early in the process. I expect things to fall out as Michelle's life did. That's how my life's unfolded so far.

But perhaps the exercise has value in preparation for thinking about the kinds of things that a post-transition woman's life might be like.

Rogina B
05-27-2013, 09:52 PM
With "no dog in this fight" I am going to add that most often the transitioning girls that I meet with,have dreams of "it all getting better for them" but there is no serious plan as to how to make that happen.I do my best to "convince them" that they need to really get it together or they will remain "in the refrigerator box" that they have slid into. Cruel perhaps,but the truth.

Beth-Lock
05-27-2013, 09:53 PM
Put aside lots of money for post-op care and even travel to specialists. Like thousands and thousands.

Still, people say you can see the way I am much happier now, in my face and in my eyes, than pre-op.

Nicole Erin
05-28-2013, 01:17 AM
If someone is living their life during transition then things shouldn't really be any different once someone is "done".
If transition happened overnight then it might be a problem with "what now?"

With planning anything - plans are often nothing more than a list of things that didn't or won't happen.

For me, I don't think in terms of "how will my new presentation effect this or that?" Not like I am some winner in the game of life but I don't really believe things would be better or worse on count of my gender.

Kaitlyn Michele
05-28-2013, 08:10 AM
This can be true of anything in life...

I like the idea of planning and then executing the plan

...the reason planning helps ALOT is that you can make better decisions when the inevitable problems pop up
...why not do your best to think of all the possible outcomes and learn about the best ways to get the best outcomes??

This is really difficult stuff and if you feel you don't have the will or energy to plan well, then it will fall on you unless you are really lucky...

groove67
05-28-2013, 08:35 AM
I totally agree you need a plan post op. I am few months away but have made sure that i have my security taken care off as far as money by saving , purchasing condo, new car and taking care of things dowh the road. In almost two years at job two promotions at work and i am sure if it where not for my situation i would have gotten one of them, however i am not so stupid to cause a fuss as i have a very good job and know i need it so i just roll with these punches. As long as i can continue where i am at ok there. As far as being complete woman in society have given much thought and trying to use pre op time to make that as comfortable as i can but sure there will be suprises around the cornor.

Michelle.M
05-28-2013, 12:19 PM
. . . I am going to add that most often the transitioning girls that I meet with,have dreams of "it all getting better for them" but there is no serious plan as to how to make that happen.

You're quite right. I see that a lot myself. Pre-op girls who seem to think that once GRS is done then something magical will happen in their lives and everything will fall into place.


If someone is living their life during transition then things shouldn't really be any different once someone is "done".

Exactly! Simply losing one's penis does not suddenly bring all sorts of womanly wisdom to our lives. Oh, sure, my underwear fits better, but otherwise my life is the same as it was before, except that now my body is congruent with my soul.

DaniG
05-28-2013, 12:34 PM
Put aside lots of money for post-op care and even travel to specialists. Like thousands and thousands.

If it's not TMI, would you be willing to elaborate? There's a fair amount of information about what goes on during transition. What considerations are needed post-transition? Are they just lingering issues? Other stuff?


Still, people say you can see the way I am much happier now, in my face and in my eyes, than pre-op.

That's great! :)

mary something
05-28-2013, 01:04 PM
It is an illusion to think you will be there once you transition physically and socially. Think about it like this, you align your body, you align your soul, your emotional anchoring in the world, but what of the spirit. If it finds it alignment, then and only then you will have reached the place you seek to reach. My thoughts!


Kathryn that entire post was beautiful and touching. Let's not forget that the modern process of transition as we know it was not designed by transsexuals but by older white men who assumed almost god-like authority that was granted them by a patriarchial society. A society that is organized and enforced by your very profession and the ilk (I can't imagine the strength it took to transition in the very heart of patriarchy like you did). It is very important that we as a community learn from our sisters lessons and share our experiences. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could start clearing some of those brushes and undergrowth beforehand by using the lessons of those before us? Perhaps we are not orphans after all but eventually can mother each other? Or perhaps at least we can keep from eating our young lol. These are things that even a brilliant man like Harry Benjamin would simply not have been able to comprehend because his vision was limited by his gender.

Nigella
05-28-2013, 01:47 PM
I would rephrase the title to "SRS is only half the battle" :)

As in everything we do in life, the direction you take is driven by the choices you make. The standard pre-requisite for SRS is two years RLE, but RLE is a lifetime of experience, so how can you prepare for a future life in the gender you are in two years. The older you are before accepting yourself, the harder and longer it takes to unlearn that lifetime of experience that has shaped you. That magical bridge you cross with SRS is then burnt, be sure before you take that step.

mary something
05-28-2013, 01:56 PM
That is a great point Nigella, because that is a doozy of a step if later you think... I don't know how you unlearn and prepare for a lifetime of experience exactly, but I think we are more capable of figuring it out ourselves than cisgender men are for sure ;)

kellycan27
05-28-2013, 02:51 PM
I am not sure what having a vagina has to do with planning your post transition life unless your plan is to work in the sex industry or walk around without pants. I have seen girls that were so obsessed with transition that it made them impotent to actually move forward.. They had their eyes on the prize and paid little or no attention to how they were going to survive post transition. As Kaitlyn said... " this could be true of anything in life". You plan your education, even though you aren't sure where it will take you if anywhere at all, but you are still more prepared than not. Even a half assed plan is better than no plan.

Kathryn Martin
05-28-2013, 03:16 PM
Even a half assed plan is better than no plan.

I stopped recommending this, apparently planning is out of fashion these days. I think in the sense used here it is a really more of a life plan. I follow you on this one to wherever you want to go with this

kellycan27
05-28-2013, 04:36 PM
I think that this tread might have been better suited for the 18-31 section, but alas! The powers to be have deemed me too old to participate there :heehee:

Rianna Humble
05-28-2013, 06:05 PM
You may be right that us oldies are not suited to planning for the future :heehee:

There has to be a cut-off for the 18-30 section and that was set by members at 30! :OMG:

Angela Campbell
05-28-2013, 06:09 PM
It is hard to plan for something that is almost too much to even imagine.

kellycan27
05-28-2013, 06:17 PM
You may be right that us oldies are not suited to planning for the future :heehee:

There has to be a cut-off for the 18-30 section and that was set by members at 30! :OMG:

Merely an observation rather than a complaint. Those 30 year olds.. You can't tell um a thing! LOL

groove67
05-28-2013, 06:22 PM
Great point kelly i will not have one until october but still looking forward to being there. Not sure i will be anymore a woman than i already feel i am but know just because i have that still not a free walk into womanhood. I know that will be my next level to win , earn be, or whatever we call it. However for us whom have not been there yet can not wait to be there and i accept the challenges we face. I realize this is not that easy and maybe will never be but i will go to bed at nite knowing i am whom i am and shoild have been 47 years ago. Love to all you ladies marianne

Rogina B
05-28-2013, 09:02 PM
By observation,it seems that girls in the "white collar world"[for lack of a better term] have a far easier go of it than those in the [often more phobic] blue collar world. However,there are always exceptions. Perhaps some people are just better at sticking to a plan[and they do it everyday at their job] while others are more free spirited in their approach sometimes as a product of their work skills. Transitioning while still"at the job",really has challenges if the workworld is phobic,like Melissa's[aka BadTranny] is,like many trade environments. It takes a Jorja to keep them all loving you..Seems like the professional world is an easier go. So,plan to be in a professional environment!

Jhustagurl
05-28-2013, 09:51 PM
I would rephrase the title to "SRS is only half the battle" :)

The standard pre-requisite for SRS is two years RLE

Actually, the prerequisite RLE for GRS is one year. See WPATH SOC v7

groove67
05-28-2013, 10:49 PM
I take offence to that as i have worrked hard for the company as a man lol and woman to be for over 20 years. I am still very good in my job just cause i wear a skirt to work now does not make my brain less in the job. I do not think white collar has anything to do with it. I have been welcomed in my job as whom i am maybe it has to do with blue collar male we are the man

Jorja
05-29-2013, 12:06 AM
I saw this thread a couple of days ago and have wanted to respond. I have been so busy the last couple of days that I just haven’t been able to sit down and collect my thoughts. Until now that is.

Like anything else in our lives we need a plan to be successful in our post-op life. However, that plan can only be a partial plan. There are many new things we need to learn once we cross that magical line into womanhood. Where our plan fails is that life as a woman isn’t even close to what we thought it was. So yes, make some plans but do not write them in stone or in blood because your plans are going to change.

One of the first things on your plate and I feel strongly about this, is to quit fighting the same old fights that have haunted you for years. Wash your hands of all of it. Throw those old fights and feelings in the trash and move on. There is no room in your life now for them. Today is a new day. Open yourself up and let her come out 110% baby.

Like Kelly mentioned we need to become educated and have a method for making money. If you are going to transition on the job become the best at what you do. Do not give your employer an excuse to fire you because they will at the first opportunity. Become an indispensable asset to your employer. I have seen many girls get themselves fired simply because they did not follow the company dress code. Do not fall into this trap. If you are going to be a professional then be the best professional your company has ever seen male or female. There is so much more that goes into this that I can’t get into it here but I do hope you get the basic idea.

One suggestion that I really like is to move location where you are living even if it is only a couple of miles away. The reason for this is your neighbors will see a woman move in. They have no idea of your past. Keep it that way. If necessary, modify your own story and stick to it. They only need to know the person in front of them. Then, be the person you say you are. Keep it real. If you are Debby pole dancer be prepared to pole dance. If you are Samantha the professional be prepared to show how professional you are. Simple, huh?

The first five years post-op are the hardest. After that you will have seen and handled the worst and best that your new life is going to throw at you. After that it is life. Enjoy !

Nicole Erin
05-29-2013, 01:19 AM
I think that this tread might have been better suited for the 18-31 section, but alas! The powers to be have deemed me too old to participate there :heehee:

If you were 28 just a year ago then how did you suddenly get to be age 31 or older?
I know, I know, sour grapes.

Beth-Lock
05-29-2013, 02:14 AM
...would you be willing to elaborate? There's a fair amount of information about what goes on during transition. What considerations are needed post-transition? Are they just lingering issues? Other stuff?

I was sent home with surgeon's instructions not to be alone the first 48 hours at home. (Everyone got the same instructions.) To get reliable coverage that meant hiring six 8 hour shifts of personal care workers.

Rogina B
05-29-2013, 06:19 AM
I am still very good in my job just cause i wear a skirt to work now does not make my brain less in the job. I do not think white collar has anything to do with it. I have been welcomed in my job as whom i am maybe it has to do with blue collar male we are the man
I am all for it! But,by observation SOME work worlds are a lot less understanding to transitioning coworkers.They have no right to be,but they are. Even in the white collar world,some other employees that are ok with it at work,may prefer not to business travel,etc with you.I know business is business,but it is sort of the same thing women went through just a few years back..

kellycan27
05-29-2013, 11:35 AM
If you were 28 just a year ago then how did you suddenly get to be age 31 or older?
I know, I know, sour grapes.

Nope.. The 27 in my screen name denotes my age when I joined in 09. 27+4=31.
( trust me I an an accountant). :battingeyelashes:

I am glad my husband doesn't read these boards... He thinks I am 25 :heehee: ( j/k)

celeste26
05-29-2013, 12:18 PM
Of course for those older like myself I am looking forward to retirement and I already have enough income from that to live (maybe not a fancy life). I have my family well informed and supportive, grand kids scattered around the country etc. Check goes directly into the bank account so even if I travel I still have my income. Should I choose to work after SRS even minimum wages will be fine with me since any income from that will be all extra.

Starling
05-30-2013, 04:15 AM
At this point, I may need to borrow someone else's plan.

:) Lallie

Jorja
05-30-2013, 03:53 PM
You could always punt, Starling. ;)

Rianna Humble
05-30-2013, 06:19 PM
They've given up the Punt in Ireland in favour of the Euro :heehee:

Starling
05-30-2013, 11:07 PM
You could always punt, Starling. ;)

Never, Jorja! I'm in four-down territory. And sorry about those Browns--a sentiment that is as timeless as the classic apartment house smell of boiled cabbage and Lysol.

:) Lallie


They've given up the Punt in Ireland in favour of the Euro :heehee:

Oy gewalt!

:) Lallie

Lorileah
05-31-2013, 11:47 AM
I "know" that afterward it will not be happily ever after (I have enough post op friends to see that) but I hope I will be able to just live out what short time I have left in a surreal world that is comfortable :)

Anyone want to buy a bridge??

Starling
05-31-2013, 07:14 PM
I don't have anywhere to put another bridge, Lorileah, but I share your dream of a pleasantly surreal aftermalelife.

:) Lallie

Kaitlyn Michele
06-01-2013, 09:03 AM
The biggest thing I noticed about my own happily ever after is that it is not surreal at all...it feels incredibly normal and it feels like I was always "this way"....it feels like I never had those other parts or that other gender role...

I have to really concentrate to imagine it ...and its hard for me to imagine the idea of "Changing gender" after having the idea dominate my life for 45 years...I've described it before as I imagine that this is what being cisgender feels like...I believe this is what true congruence is...and what's more...I have alot of masculine habits...I rarely wear overly female outfits, altho I do from time to time...its usually sweats/jeans/flats..its nothing like what I thought it would be..nothing like it at all

sometimes that feeling of normalcy or congruence is ALL YOU GET, and everything else goes to S@#T(not always..sometimes)....
...you have to be ok with that...

josee
06-01-2013, 09:29 AM
Can't even imagine that right now Kaitlyn but it sure sounds nice.:daydreaming:

Starling
06-02-2013, 02:42 AM
The idea of attaining mundane normality after a life of inner turmoil is, in itself, surreal to me.

:) Lallie

Kathryn Martin
06-02-2013, 07:36 AM
sometimes that feeling of normalcy or congruence is ALL YOU GET ...you have to be ok with that...

Normalcy and congruence is all you get, but is that not what it is all about. Finally living a normal life? There is no glamor in being a woman, it just is. If that is not what you looking for then why would you make such an undertaking?

Angela Campbell
06-02-2013, 08:33 AM
sometimes that feeling of normalcy or congruence is ALL YOU GET.

All you get? That seems like winning the lottery to me.

Inna
06-02-2013, 08:39 AM
plan? for what? to plan at an onset of transition is like getting ready to fly Boeing 747 while just enrolling in a flying class.

Cognitive processes hinged on Testosterone environment, Social dynamic based on male hierarchy......

Good luck with planning, and Yes, plan all you want and see the life unfold in the most mesmerizing way.........totally unlike the plans proposed.

mary something
06-02-2013, 08:46 AM
so after reading Inna's and Kaitlyn's comments (two women whose wisdom I listen to and respect). It is best to develop the mental agility and ability to adapt at the beginning of transition instead of trying to plan for an uncertain future? To develop the tools and hone them that when life changes we are also capable of changing and adapting quickly while expressing our inner nature.

Perhaps it's best to look inward just as much as outward when planning this thing.

Does that seem reasonable to those who have walked farther on this path than I have?

Kaitlyn Michele
06-02-2013, 09:27 AM
I'd say to Inna that there is a romantic notion of losing the T and getting the E and emotionally growing through a wonderfully meaningful process...but if I knew I was flying a boeing 747 tomorrow I would not go to bed tonight, I'd call pilots and ask them how to fly, i'd spend all night reading the manual and trying to understand all the controls...doing the best I can to learn everything about it...i'd look at the weather forecast...

I just don't get the whole planning is useless thing...its a basic fact that plans go wrong...the point of the plan is to have some idea of how to handle it when they go wrong...i'll probably still crash the plane, but without planning I will for sure
I'm talking about nuts and bolts...do you have the $$? what will you do if you are marginalized at work?? who can you tell first? what will you actually tell them?? do you have a support network around you?

I'd say to Mary that I think the idea of developing mental agility to adapt is great but we talk in generalities a lot...when I talk about planning I am talking more about nuts and bolts..

.... what EXACTLY is develop tools and hone them??? answer that question for yourself ..can you imagine your therapist saying "go develop some mental agility"..

mary something
06-02-2013, 10:41 AM
excellent point Kaitlynn, I too would take a crash course (haha) on flying 747's.

planning how to come out professionally and personally of course is very important. Isn't it ironic that when someone spends their whole life hiding they develop the skills of a spy then when they transition and come out they need the skills of a marketer and salesperson while the old skills only work to their detriment?

I agree that making sure that your income source will be sufficient and is weatherproofed as much as possible from the storms that are coming, and your housing situation as well is an imperative part of the planning. I didn't say that very well, or at all in my post. Survival begins here though doesn't it?

"can you imagine your therapist saying "go develop some mental agility".."

My therapist did say such a thing to me, many times but not in those exact words. I spent months with her and by my own efforts working on how to handle doubt, shame, guilt, avoiding black/white thinking, learning my individual strengths and weaknesses so I can identify what specifically about my problems are hurting me the most. We spent almost a year examing my conscious thinking to look for learned errors in perception and cognition that would hold me back from becoming myself.

I came to her and my first question was how long it would take to get a letter for hrt. She replied that if that was what I needed then I would get it but only when I was ready and there was no timeline, it was dependent upon me. I almost didn't go back to her, but I am so glad I did now. Something about her struck me as trustworthy even when I resented her for telling me what I didn't want to hear.

All of those decisions that you mentioned are so much easier to make when prepared both physically and mentally. It is impossible to persuade and convince someone else of the rightness of your actions when their approval is too important to you to take the actions in question without doubt. It is important to understand why one has lived in denial of their true gender for so long and how exactly we have created the emotional wall to contain this truth in order to dismantle it. While writing this I think of Paula's words that she wants to be able to feel and express emotions as a woman and wonder if this is not part of the issue in question. That is why my advice to her is first to dismantle the emotional wall that is keeping her from feeling this in the role of "man", then build from there in so many words.

All these things are what I refer to when I use the term mental agility. Basically I mean examining ourselves from a distance personally, understanding the ego reactions to the worlds reflection of our identity and the emotions that come from our unconscious and conscisous identity which then interpreted by the malformed ego into what we call "truth" but is not necessarily so. Then understanding what went wrong and reshaping ourselves, reparenting ourselves, seeing the true reflection of ourself to turn into that which should have happened but didn't.

None of this is possible without complete self acceptance and the mental tools necessary to be agile and not lose yourself in the process.

I guess the best way to describe mental agility would be to free oneself of unhealthy thoughts and feelings that will hold you in place when one must move quickly. That way we can live more happily in a world of constant change without fearing the changes that will inevitably come and the pain that is always a part of life. It is that fear and how we react to it that keeps us from feeling connected, yet feeling connected is the only way to mitigate the pain that life always brings. It is in this way we are our own worst enemies.

So perhaps our paradox is that it is important to manage this process with self-awareness, yet we have gotten to this place by living in denial and building a lifetime of habits to limit our self-awareness to protect ourselves from a truth that we do not wish to possess while still in denial.

That is why we do this: to stop living a lie, to be authentic and real for the first time, to actually feel alive. But because of the paradox of awareness that I have mentioned we make many mistakes and cause ourselves more pain than is necessary. It is impossible to be in two places simultaneously of course, and that is our problem, but it is possible to help ourselves learn to move from one place to another much quicker and safely. That is called agility.

Kaitlyn Michele
06-02-2013, 10:48 AM
good points all Mary...

its the specifics that count... Its a great idea to identify your own self talk and how it can hurt you for example..be brutal if you can muster it...

Its obvious how analytical I am...i'm a businessperson by nature...my therapist urged me to use that... she kept responding to my rantings with "consider it as data"

In the context of transition is half the battle, if you can somehow improve yourself in other ways it can only help you in the 2nd half..

mary something
06-02-2013, 11:28 AM
sounds like you had a good therapist too Kaitlyn :). Her telling you to consider your emotions as "data" sounds to me like her attempting to help you see yourself from a distance and integrate yourself by becoming more self-aware by stepping outside your emotions to see with more clarity and act with more agility. One point that my therapist brought up to me once that at first pissed me off but I kept thinking about was this question. She said that you want to participate in a set of medical and hormonal treatments that have been developed in response to a need that some people have. These treatments were designed to help women who are in the wrong bodies to change their bodies to suit their mind and soul. Because the treatment was developed as a response to the fact that there were "men" who had already emotionally and mentally transitioned to "women" proves that it is not necessarily the medical treatment that provides the full solution and understanding but the mental changes that happen.

Basically it was a chicken and egg analogy. Which came first, women in the body of a man who then were so fully realized without any medical treatments that the only logical conclusion was to change the body. It is the allure of medical treatments and hormonal treatments that causes us to focus on that specifically at our own emotional detriment I believe and my therapist did also. They can make us look like a woman, but a woman is more than her exterior. They can reproduce some of the physical sensations that women have, but not all.

If the transsexual who was fully mentally and emotionally transitioned to womanhood hadn't existed first then how would she have ever convinced a man in the 30's or 40's to try and change her body? The first tenet of medicine is "do no harm".

I think we forget that sometimes because the little girls that are producing our emotions are like every other little girl I have ever met, they want to grow up RIGHT NOW! lol

Badtranny
06-02-2013, 12:27 PM
The guys that work for me are required to submit at minimum a One Week Plan that lays out the work and the resources required. Most of the time I'm looking for a Three Week Plan. I want to know what they plan to do and how they plan to do it. My foremen are professionals and when they complain about having to submit the plan on a job that "might not even take a week", I ask them if they would send someone to pick up lunch for the crew without a list of what everybody wants?

The answer is self evident, nothing happens without a plan. Well nothing you want to happen anyway.

I'm as lazy and free spirited as anyone I've ever met, and those traits don't excuse me from the need to execute a plan, on the contrary they demand it.

CharleneT
06-02-2013, 02:03 PM
Making plans is a very very very good idea. Expecting that they will not end up working as laid out, also a very good idea - but at least you have a clue and maybe a plan B ( or C ) !

Post surgery life is as some above describe: very normal, in many ways boring and most definitely plain old every day is just a day. Really, the excitement (if you would call early transition that) is over. You're who you wanted to be and now you can do it - whatever that is/was/will be. Jorja is spot on target with her comments!! Accept and be who you are -- and mum's the word on the past. Transitioning is a huge and long task. It will seem hard to do so, but basically forget about it.

kellycan27
06-02-2013, 03:14 PM
As a young transitioner I find life after transition anything but boring. I began living my adult life as a female and I was able to experience a lot of " firsts"... First meaningful job, first meaningful romantic relationship, first time experiencing motherhood. First opportunity to have and function as a family. Raising children, involvement in the community. We're building a future for us and our kids. A lot of late transitioners have been there done that.. got the t-shirt already.
I don't imagine life being able to show them much more than they have already experienced, nor do I see them getting excited over much. We're just starting out on life's journey.

Jorja
06-02-2013, 06:26 PM
"Life is what you make it. You put forth the effort you will be rewarded with a wonderful life." I was told that by a TS post-op lady thirty five years ago.

I took her advice and have to agree. Life has been good to me. You can sit and whine and cry and allow your doubts to eat you alive on the couch and have a miserable life. Or, you can get with it and have a normal, full, rich life. It is all up to you.

Beth-Lock
06-02-2013, 07:38 PM
sometimes that feeling of normalcy or congruence is ALL YOU GET, and everything else goes to S@#T...

Now I understand what is going on with my life right now.

Personally, my life is good, myself. But out there, all the world is going mad I think.