Is GENDER really that important?

[Frédérique]

“One and one don’t make two, one and one make one...” (Pete Townshend)

Is gender really that important? In the great “scheme” of things, I mean...

IT has been already been discussed, and re-discussed, “it” being this idea that we all have elements or characteristics of each gender within us all, so what’s the big deal about gender? Is it that important to be one thing or the other, namely definitely M or definitely F? Why can’t we be borne aloft on the curious gender-unspecific wings of caprice and simply enjoy our brief time alive? Why subscribe to societal conformity via gender separation? I don’t get it...

Looking at this site from the outside, and the angst-ridden discussions therein, I get the feeling that lots of individuals feel they must abandon one gender for the other, making a difficult choice they feel they must make, if only to make sense out of their existence, while others seem happy to play with reality within the constraints of their existence. In short, who cares WHAT you are?

This may not be the concern of your average MtF crossdresser, but as soon as he dons his chosen uniform of perversion his mind is filled with unwanted thoughts. Was I really meant to be a female (or girl, if you prefer)? Am I a female trapped in a male body? Do I have to get REALLY serious about what I’m doing? Where is this leading me? The questions are never-ending...

However, why can’t you simply crossdress, have some fun, and leave it at that? Why can’t you enjoy the “magic” that comes along with dressing against your birth gender, and leave all the troubling questions about gender at the door? Why can’t you simply embrace gender-fluidity, and dispense with gender-rigidity? I’m addressing those who crossdress purely for pleasure, and NOT those whose everyday dressing IS crossdressing in the eyes of society. In my little self-made universe, you can be one thing or another, according to how you’re dressed, and the smiles just come naturally...

Oh, the consternation about gender! As far as I’m concerned, I’m lucky to be alive, so let’s live a little – MtF crossdressing is just one thing I do for pleasure, and it never ceases to be pleasurable, at least until I bump into someone who insists I’m way off base. I’m not saying that one person is right and the other person is wrong, but I think we humans continually bypass enjoyment to look into the meaning of things, even when there is none. This is unnecessary, in (as I wrote above) the great scheme of things. I have only so much time available to me, or left to me, and I’m going to do my little taboo thing to have some fun – I think this is called, “Damn the torpedoes, FULL SPEED AHEAD!”

When I wake up in the morning, I have no doubts about my gender, and yet my closet is full of femme goodies that would tell the nearest observer that SOMETHING else is going on, and that something is gender confusion. That’s not the case, I’m here to say (or write), in fact my own personal brand of crossdressing is no big deal, never has been, and never will be. I have a firm grasp on my gender, truth be told (use your imagination), but it’s not all that important. My crossdressing is just a tool I use to create happiness, and THAT is the important thing...

Is gender really THAT important, dear friends? :idontknow:

I know, I know, I know, gender is probably VERY important to you, but how did you get that way? :thinking:

[Kate Simmons]

I'm pretty much like you Freddy in that I don't take myself or most things that seriously and have fun expressing myself en femme and am happy when I can go the the club and dance all night. Nothing more or less. Seems to work for me my friend.:battingeyelashes::)

[melanie206]

I'm not sure about all of your points but I agree wholly with the concept of gender fluidity. Most of the time I can't put a finger on which gender I'm feeling like and have stopped trying. This doesn't have that much to do with dressing as much as mental outlook. My situation doesn't allow that much time to be en femme but one's life must still be lived and enjoyed.

[mary something]

I think in our society women are allowed to be much more gender-fluid than genetic men are. I've known women who chew tobacco, love to deer hunt and fish, wear camo with regularity and yet they are seen as women because of how they pee. Men on the other hand are shamed from an early age to aspire and uphold a standard of "manhood" that severely limits their ability to express their gender physically.

If we look at women in the world we live in there are all different types along the gender scale. Some are much more manly than the average man, and some are delicate flowers of feminity. All are acknowledged as women however and their basic identity is not questioned even if they don't fit in socially very well at times.

Perhaps this phenomenom is partly to blame for the disparities you mentioned in your post?

I agree that gender is always secondary to happiness, anything other and someone's priorities are clearly out of whack not too mention they probably aren't very happy either.

[Angela Campbell]

It is very important to me having lived so many years as the wrong gender. I don't want to be fluid at all I know what I am and I want to be that.

[Beverley Sims]

Frédérique,
to me gender is not an issue,
but for some that is all they live for.
It is serious.
Be the right gender.

[Georgette]

You are absolutey right genitic women can wear anything they want , but let a genitic male put on a dress and panty hose and he is labled as , well you all know.

[carhill2mn]

IMHO there are many variations when it comes to the importance of "gender".

If you feel that your "gender brain" does not match your physical body, then gender is very important to you as it is a constant issue.

If you periodically enjoy looking and acting as a woman or girl, wearing some type of feminine clothing some or all of the time or participating in some other "non-standard" male behavior, then gender is not as much of an issue for you.

As usual, there is no "one size fits all" answer.

[rachael.davis]

Hi Frederique
Gender wasn't important until I hit a level of self acceptance that allowed me to admit how desperately I despised the previous years in my life. I need to get to a place where my mind, soul, and body agree with eachother about who I am.
Your mileage may vary

[Joanne f]

If you wake up in the morning and are happy with the gender that you have the body to match then you will never understand what it is like to wake up and know that you have the wrong body to match your gender that is within you and there is no amount of feminine clothing that will compensate for that feeling , it may help you to feel like you look like your gender on the outside but it will never let you feel like your inner feelings , it is a pull on you that you cannot controle simply by dressing the part , that is just the wrappings you have to have what is inside and nothing else will do , if you have that sort of feelings then you will understand how important gender is to you , it is not a choice of " Oh I will dress feminine today to satisfy my gender needs " you cannot turn it on and off it is there eating at you all the time , so if gender is not that important to you and you are happy with the one you have , then I would say that you are one of the lucky ones who can just enjoy dressing for what is it ,just dressing .

[Cheryl Ann Owens]

To me, gender expression is important and even sacred for the majority of our population to know where they fit in a set of societal and "expected" norms, and follow the stereotypical behaviors at each end of the spectrum dependent on what's in between their legs. Too bad because there's a lot of exploration and fluidity in between.

Cheryl

[Veronica27]

I cringe whenever I hear how the word gender is now used. We are constantly asked to state our gender when what is really being asked is what sex are you. I suppose this has come about because of the modern use of "sex" to refer to such things as intercourse and copulation. We have practically rendered the word "sleep" redundant because of a similar misuse. Gender is whatever a culture deems it to be and can vary from place to place and era to era. In fact, its basic meaning has more to do with whether you should use "la" or "le" when speaking French.

While I recognize that people can have varying degrees of satisfaction with their birth sex, or conversely their desire to be the opposite sex, is it really a case of "gender confusion" or "gender identity"? Is this just one more instance of the modern trend of creating a "disorder" out of just about any deviation from conformity with big brother's edicts? Is ADD not "normal" for any healthy, inquisitive, energetic young soul or should we simply drug every youngster into submission?

I am all for simply having fun with my crossdressing. I know which sex I am and love it. I suffer no gender confusion. While the current trend toward legislating trans rights is no doubt quite helpful for those who desire to live partially or fully as the opposite sex (or should I say gender) it does little to help the fun loving crossdresser but instead, serves to perpetuate some of the false stereotypes they are attempting to overcome.

Veronica

[Tracii G]

I know my gender and crossdress in a gender fluid way.

[Shelly Preston]

Gender I would suggest has differing levels of importance as not everyone is treated equally

I am sure many women will tell you they have felt disadvantaged in the workplace due to their gender.

For some it is so important that SRS is the only option for them.

A lot of others never really consider their Gender in a serious way.

So yes Gender is important but it all depends on your starting point.

I would suggest for most here there was a realisation that they were somehow different.

[marlenesexton]

It seems like you're right. To some people gender is very important. They are almost militant about it. But their are probably many more individuals, trans, CD's, whatever, that just do what they do and don't worry about labels. They just don't get on the internet and rant about it. They are happily living their lives in the way they choose instead of trying to change the world, so to speak. Most of us are probably like that. Enjoying an aspect of our personality and not really caring if the world at large accepts us or what labels they insist on slapping on us. I'm gay, I'm a sissy, I'm a sinner, I'm disturbed, whatever. That's nice. Same with most of the LGBT community, as well as many other aspects of our lives. Some people feel the need to be validated with labels and others could care less.

[Tess]

When I wake up in the morning, I have no doubts about my gender, and yet my closet is full of femme goodies that would tell the nearest observer that SOMETHING else is going on, and that something is gender confusion. That’s not the case, I’m here to say (or write), in fact my own personal brand of crossdressing is no big deal, never has been, and never will be. I have a firm grasp on my gender, truth be told (use your imagination), but it’s not all that important. My crossdressing is just a tool I use to create happiness, and THAT is the important thing...

That statement is spot on in describing my crossdressing. Its harmless fun for me. There is no internal struggle around gender to muck up my happiness. The same cannot be said about other areas of my life, but a simple pleasure like crossdressing has never given me a sleepless night.

[NicoleScott]

Yes, gender is important, but only when the word is properly used, and not when sex and gender are used interchangably.

[KaraK]

I'm probably too young to see all the gender effects on my life. But I see genders not like a tight barrier but more like a veil you can go through. I am not that sure of who/what I am but i'm trying to live my boy & girl lifes and be happy with my family, friends, work… (it's hard but i'm working on that things).

so for me gender is not that important, we are humans after all.

[kimdl93]

I'm very sympathetic to those individuals who must contend with a gender 'assignment', socially, culturally and anatomically, that is at odds with how they see themselves. I can also relate to those, many of us, who over the course of years have suffered anguish and self loathing because they were sure something wasn't right, but couldn't quite comprehend or accept themselves as something other than absolutely this or positively that.

I wish we could just 'be'. Sometimes it sees that it takes a long time and maturity and support before we can truly be.

[PaulaQ]

@ Frederique - if gender doesn't matter, why dress en femme at all? Could you not just be happy dressing as follows, like many, many GG's I see:
- t shirt
- jeans
- flip-flops (not even always cute ones)
- a touch of makeup
- a purse

This could look fairly androgenous. Your facial hair, hairstyle, and facial features would be all people would have to judge by, presuming you didn't speak.

Would this be fun cross dressing to you? If not, why not?

Since you admittedly enjoy cross-gender expression - in the form of cross dressing, seems to me that gender is in fact pretty important to you. You present as the opposite gender sometimes.

There's nothing wrong with that, nor does it mean you are TS, or anything crazy like that. But it seems to me that gender expression matters to you.

If you are really asking why we can't all be gender-fluid, I think the answer is that we all fall along a spectrum of gender expression, from folks who are 10% crossdressed 10% of the time, to folks who are 100% / 50% of the time, to girls who transition. Of course there are also people who are genderqueer, and express partly male / partly female, all the time. Of course that's just my opinion - the science on this stuff is so murky and poor that all anyone can offer are really opinions and hypothesis. So your guess is as good as mine if you disagree!

To answer the question posed for myself - I am not gender fluid because I am, at this point, totally and completely stressed out and barely functional while dressed as a male. I hate being a dude. Putting on my golf shirt and tactical pants is stressful - it's like I'm carrying a small sofa on my back. It just drains me. Dressing as Paula feels - fantastic. I'm happy. I feel normal. So I guess to me, gender is really important - I got assigned the wrong one on the outside! (So embarrassing, especially in the restroom...) :o

I'm very happy, though, to hear that you can easily flip roles back and forth, and are comfortable and happy however you present. That is awesome! Wish that was me! :)

[noeleena]

Hi,

How different does one need to be to the point of being nether. or both depending on how others percive one . my telltail signs are mixed, i walk down the street shop at malls meet & greet many people & talk to 100's known by 1.000 's so what would many of those people say.

they see some one who walks like a woman yet can have a maleness about her er him... her manerisms are female yet can work like a male, has that strength not a wimp. voice well some of both male & female. so what if one is a non sexual again nether male or female, cant have sex as male or female , now get your head around that one,

so Gender. now no idear, none what ever , what should i say most others see a female / woman why, what does my name say. could be a riddle as well depending on how you see it. or say it, now heres one what sexual organs , ooops oh dear , none. that was easy, so i surpose im a non gender.

Hang on my birth certs say female at birth,, now i hear some say they were assigned the wrong one at birth , well ether one for myself was wrong at birth they got that wrong it should have been both . oh well ill just leave it up to others how they see myself, just because of my difference they can say it,

most accept im a female who is a woman.

Oh my name noel or no-el or noeleena. ether way tells its own story.


...noeleena..

[Frédérique]

Sorry for the delay – I was resting up for the next round of tornados... :worried:


If we look at women in the world we live in there are all different types along the gender scale. Some are much more manly than the average man, and some are delicate flowers of femininity. All are acknowledged as women however and their basic identity is not questioned even if they don't fit in socially very well at times. Perhaps this phenomenon is partly to blame for the disparities you mentioned in your post?

You’re still making distinctions, everything being either M or F, and you’re not recognizing the existence of people who openly embody characteristics of both genders. I see all variations of males and females out in the world, but, for the most part, one gender is chosen over the other, perhaps to bring about, or engender, something. If you’re NOT in the engendering business, as encouraged by society, you don’t have to be so trapped by gender...


If you wake up in the morning and are happy with the gender that you have the body to match then you will never understand what it is like to wake up and know that you have the wrong body to match your gender that is within you and there is no amount of feminine clothing that will compensate for that feeling.

We’re in a different “space,” you and I, that’s all. I’m here to say you CAN crossdress and not have gender issues...


We are constantly asked to state our gender when what is really being asked is what sex are you.

This is one of those conundrums that exist these days, and they find voice on this site. Couldn’t you say that gender is a euphemism for sex? In this day and age, language is being drained of all its punch, or strength, so as not to offend easily offended types. Here in America, the word sex makes certain associations in peoples’ minds, so the gentler-sounding gender is employed when issues of sexuality are being discussed. Another euphemism used on this particular site is transgender, used in place of crossdresser. In a similar vein, old people are now “senior citizens,” stupidity is now evidence of a “learning disorder,” and the dump is now the “sanitary landfill.” Sigh...


?????

I knew you were going to post in this thread – I would’ve bet the FARM on it... :heehee:


Since you admittedly enjoy cross-gender expression - in the form of cross dressing, seems to me that gender is in fact pretty important to you. You present as the opposite gender sometimes. There's nothing wrong with that, nor does it mean you are TS, or anything crazy like that. But it seems to me that gender expression matters to you.

What if I just like to wear women's clothes? :straightface:

Yes, I do present as female, but SHE is anything but opposite. As far as I’m concerned, I’m merely getting in contact with something that others keep hidden, namely the presence of both genders in every human being – in this regard, you can see crossdressing as “righting the ship,” or even “balancing the scales,” since gender expression indicates picking one gender over the other. BTW, let’s not state that being TS is “crazy.” Being gender-rigid IS crazy, in my eyes...

[KellyJameson]

Gender is completely unimportant except when it is very important and crossdressing really has nothing to do with gender when gender is about identity.

When it is about identity than crossdressing is a therapeutic tool and a poor one at that.

Your words always betray you Freddy because you do not accept your crossdressing nearly as easily as your words seem to imply. You hold a tension inside you that belies your acceptance of it so you shake your fist at the world in your quiet, polite and gentle way trying to bring about change but I wonder if it is change inside yourself that you struggle to contain.

There is always a quiet violence in your words like the humming of a Hornets nest when you tap on it and you know that danger is just on the outside of those fragile paper walls.

Still waters run deep and your waters are deeper than most here so we shall see what we shall see.

You are so damn smart and this is the curse of the intellectual who becomes trapped in the maze of their own mental powers searching for an exit from the mind that torments them.

I agree that you have no doubt about your gender, both subconsciously and consciously and if these two ever crash into each other you will know why gender is so important because in that moment you will discover that you have always been living without it while thinking you have always had it.

I have never experienced you as a crossdresser but time will tell or maybe it won't.

[PaulaQ]

Freddy - if the clothes you picked just happened to be women's for some reason - fit, function, etc. I'd buy the notion 'I just like them'. It is the WOMAN part of the description that reels you in.

By the way, I support, applaud, and appreciate you gender-fluidity! I am sorry if that didn't come across. That is a totally OK way to be for some. If you are happy, and it works for you then I am genuinely happy for you. :)

I didn't mean to imply either that TS people are crazy. I meant that it is crazy to think such a description would apply to a quiet girl like you.

[rachael.davis]

I saw this while having my coffee, for some of us gender is massively important
Chris / Kristin Beck is a retired E8 from Seal Team 1, I guess her "guy" credentials are massive, and her decision about the rest of her life is heroic

http://sofrep.com/21525/breaking-the-first-female-navy-seal-kristin-beck/

[Asche]

I've never been able to wrap my head around all the hoo-rah about "gender."

For me, being male means I have an unabiguously male body (no androgyny :( ) and I've been raised as a male and have managed a bare minimum of male-appropriate behavior -- and nothing more. I'm aware that for many other people, it seems to mean a lot more, whether it's about having some sort of "gender identity" or whether it's about being a "real man", but I've never been able to wrap my head around it, and I no longer see any reason to try.

The rest of the stuff -- all that dividing human activities and characteristics into "male" and "female", and the gender policing -- is, in my mind, just society being stupid, as it so often is, and I see no reason to clutter my soul with it. If there's something I like that doesn't hurt anyone, and I think I can get away with doing it without too many negative consequences -- like wearing skirts and dresses everywhere -- I'll do it and not worry about society's stupidity.

To make a short story long: gender is important only to the extent that "society" forces me to pay attention to my gender, or the people I deal with and care about force me to pay attention to their gender.

[ErinP]

Gender,

Are we all not just human? If any one of us gets cancer, we go to the same places and hope for a cure. We can all be clothed and fed at the same Walmart. We are all born and will all die. Ten fingers and ten toes. The need for nourishment. The need to make waste. The only need for being male or female is to breed and continue as a race on this beautiful planet. We are in fact here only because of a delicate thing we call nature. Everything els has been and is only an illusion created by human kind. Thumbs and higher brain function has lead to something called reasoning. And that reasoning has lead to fear among other things. We are afraid of anything not conforming to the "social norm". If we could all just be the human race and take care of each other, things would be much more simple. Maybe I'm just getting old and truly see too much of the mess around me. No degree has given me the knowledge that life has.

Freddy, I wish I could write to communicate my thoughts as well as you. You seem to be capable of applying thought to word in a way I only wish I could. Thanks for keeping us in that deeper state of thought!

[mikiSJ]

“One and one don’t make two, one and one make one...” (Pete Townshend)

...but as soon as he dons his chosen uniform of perversion his mind is filled with unwanted thoughts. Was I really meant to be a female (or girl, if you prefer)? Am I a female trapped in a male body?

Did you really mean to say that? Do you see your feminine expression as a perversion?


Is gender really THAT important, dear friends?Is gender really that important? In the great “scheme” of things, I mean...

Yes, but not to the detriment of the other parts of my personality. Gender is the color, feminine is the tint.


I know, I know, I know, gender is probably VERY important to you, but how did you get that way?

Why does the path need to be marked?

You are in a strange place tonight!

[Frédérique]

Did you really mean to say that? Do you see your feminine expression as a perversion?

I’ve discussed the term “perversion” ad nauseum in this section for the past three years – you can look it up. Popping the offending term into a post can be seen as a cute way to say crossdress – there’s no need to get defensive or confrontational about such things, since they aren’t meant to be dissected. It’s just like saying, “I’m wearing the wrong clothes,” when I obviously feel that I’m wearing the RIGHT clothes for me, get it? I’m just turning prevailing societal opinion on its head, that’s all. Try to obtain a sense of humor...


Gender is the color, feminine is the tint.

OK, what is the VALUE? Since I’m an artist, I’ll reflect artistic terminology right back at ya all day long. A tint is a color with plenty of white added to it – did you really mean to say THAT?

How are we going to discuss the importance of GENDER if we cannot satisfactorily define the term? :idontknow:

[Veronica27]

This is one of those conundrums that exist these days, and they find voice on this site. Couldn’t you say that gender is a euphemism for sex? In this day and age, language is being drained of all its punch, or strength, so as not to offend easily offended types. Here in America, the word sex makes certain associations in peoples’ minds, so the gentler-sounding gender is employed when issues of sexuality are being discussed. Another euphemism used on this particular site is transgender, used in place of crossdresser. In a similar vein, old people are now “senior citizens,” stupidity is now evidence of a “learning disorder,” and the dump is now the “sanitary landfill.” Sigh...









It all amounts to political correctness, which is a tool of totalitarianism designed to stifle individualism and the basic freedoms of speech and thought. But that is way off topic. Suffice it to say I view the imposed use of the term transgender and the blurring of the meaning of the word gender to be a form of PC imposed by those intent on their own agendas more than the welfare of the community they represent. As its my 74th birthday today, I must climb down from my bandwagon now and think some happy thoughts. Thanks for posting a very thought provoking topic.

Veronica

[Shananigans]

This is a good question. Personally, I feel that gender perpetuates often falsely constructed differences between people. We learn more and more every day that people are actually pretty similar...our "needs" as people don't change based on the color of our skin, our sexuality, or our genitalia. People are fundamentally people.

There are still people out there that will embarrass themselves on "racial differences"...even when they have a group of biologists just telling them that they are wrong. You ask these people, "Do you really believe a black person in Tennessee really has the same going on as a black person in Africa? Doesn't that seem...stupid?"

I feel gender is similar. It's pretty much stupid to say that billions of women have these inherent defining characteristics. We are so obsessed with it, that we surprise ourselves when men show "feminine" traits or women show "masculine" traits. And, it seems most of us are happier when we DON'T cling to rigid definitions if masculine and feminine and just "be ourselves."

We also find ourselves in awe of cultures that have radically different definitions for sexuality. That many cultures did not label someone "gay" necessarily if he/she had sex with a member of the same sex....WHAAAA? But, that notion blows people's minds who have never been exposed to other ways of thinking...or, other cultures. In quite a few cultures, there are completely different definitions of gender. In a few, gender as we define it virtually does not exist. So, you tell me what that means.

I feel a kinship to my "gender" because I've been grouped with these people for some reason lol. We have similar stories because we have all been grouped together and had the same expectations forced on us.

Really, gender seems to be necessary because it has sexual origins. The "differences" of the genders enhances the ability for us to easily find a mate. But, many other gender differences do not hold up outside beyond societal constructions. How do we know this? Well, obviously, we look at other societies lol

However, just because something is constructed from society doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It's very real to the people living in that society; however, many things have been perpetuated in societies that inevitably were deemed to only segregate us and hold us back from recognizing the universal concepts that exist between ALL people.

Gender, as a whole, doesn't have a very kind role in our society (IMO). I think it hurts people because it makes people feel that they should live in one of two boxes...but, NO ONE will ever fit neatly into those boxes as a whole individual. It isn't healthy.

Do I expect that most people could imagine today's society without gender? Probably not. But, think back on things that have changed in human history that our ancestors probably could have never imagined.

So, overall, I think you should see a person as a person first. I think it's wrong to neatly check people into boxes as male or female. What does that even MEAN beyond biological definitions? Can people really universally define male versus female beyond biological definitions without pigeonholing each other? And, if it's mostly biological, why is it anyone business what you have going on down below or genetically? That's really awkward.

What is it really saying about ME when I check "female" on a job application? What things does that bring to your mind about me? How much did you just assume from that ONE fact about me?

Don't be masculine, don't be feminine, don't be a male, don't be a female...be you...whatever YOU are, be it. If you don't know who you are, figure it out. But, don't let people do the work for you by telling you what is masculine or what is feminine about you. Because, most people I have found have no idea what the hell masculine it feminine really means...you'll find it means different things to different people. That truly is brilliant, because it means that we all have no freaking clue.

I started checking the box for "Rather Not Say" a looooong time ago in response to "male or female" questions.

As a whole though, going down the "is gender really important?" road is very dangerous. Going down any road that questions people's fundamental concept of how they view themselves and society is going to be rough. People will inevitably cling relentlessly to the notions 1) This is how it has ALWAYS been ("always" being their own concept of time/place in the world), 2) This is how I feel and I am not doing any wrong (because, people are very quick to accept even dangerous ideologies as "okay" as long as they aren't the ones "perpetuating harm"). You can take these same arguments and see that they easily overlap with people's views of gender, race, religion, sexuality, politics, etc. You can pretty much it to ANY loosely defined ideology that has oppressed people historically, but appears to be an idea that people hold on to despite what it has done (or hasn't done) to advance ourselves in terms of humanity.

But, yeah, good question...but, it's a dangerous road to go down. If, however, you find that you really do think you have been buying into a gender scam...look me up!