Would GG's Prefer To Be Male

[deebra]

This ? applies only to dressing and presenting as a woman and not the joy of motherhood, etc. .One of our gg moderators has said fem clothing is no more of a turn-on to women than jeans and a T shirt are to men, unlike the exilerating, sexual, feminine feeling CD's get when they don the feminine fineries. They wear what they wear because society tells them they have to. Women complain they don't like wearing tight and restrictive clothing including high heels and bra's; the first thing they do when they get home is take it off. Then every thing must match and accessorize $$$$$. Per this forum over half of our CD's said they would not want to dress full time as a woman; to much time, expense and being uncomfortable. Do CD's and men have it easier and better than our opposit gender????

[NicoleScott]

No, CDers and [other] men don't have it easier. Women can wear anything they want: dresses and high heels, or jeans, sweatshirt and sneakers.
Places and events that formerly called for women dressing up now allow dressing down -- the workplace, church, etc. - bare legs and flats, or pants. Women in my office wear little or no makeup.
To be fair, men dress down, too. Casual Friday is now everyday casual, ties and suits required ony rarely or for certain professionals. I recently went to see the VP of my bank - he was wearing an oxford cloth shirt, no tie, and khakis. I observed, but really didn't care, because I, too, am the beneficiary of the more casual trend.

[Jaylyn]

In the real world my wife would wear shorts or jeans every day and flip flops while wearing an old T shirt. It does take her a thirty to forty five minutes to dress in her best feminine attire ( heels, skirt, bra, hose, and have her make up perfect, this includes showering, shaving legs, and all the powdering, oils and perfumes, the teasing of hair. If she is in slow mood that day she will start about an hour to hour and half earlier. She hates dressing to the max and the older she gets the more she hates it. I have noticed a big decline in women that dress to what society expects. She has told me if I had to wear a bra every day I wouldn't wont to wear one so bad. I usually dress a couple times a week and am finding the more I do that I am having a tendency to maybe dress down more. Examples are painting my toes and not wearing the hose but just my jeans and fip flops so I see them. Not wearing my wig as much but in guy mode with maybe just my lipstick on if I'm staying in that day. I am it seems also dressing down more as my wife does. There's something to be said for comfortable.

[Jenniferathome]

of course Men have it easier! There is only a minuscule fraction of the social pressure to "look" a certain way. But in answer to your title: NO, unless they are transexuals.

[Greenie]

I get the feeling that I am one of the rare GG's who likes skirts and dresses. At least that's what you all make it sound like. I don't do my makeup often, but honestly its because I like to keep my skin clear and don't really need it. I also don't like tight clothes because I am heavy, and the best way to make a fat person look fatter is tight clothes.

One of the things I LOVE about Luca is that in male mode he likes to look good. He has vests and cute sweaters, fashionable jeans and button up shirts. He looks GOOD as a man, not all "slobby" like how you see a lot of men and women these days.

[Beverley Sims]

Some GG's I know would like to be male for a time to get revenge on their self opinionated boyfriends.

[Aly Cat]

As for fashion, i find myself a lot like Luca in that i like wearing fashionable stuff. I have vests, fitted vneck tshirts, Abercrombie jeans etc. I like to look fashionable regardless of male mode or fem mode. Its just a fashion state of mind thing i guess.

[Jessica Keys]

Ya, there is a double standard also.
I was at a beach a couple weeks ago and getting some sun after a cool spring here I over heard a couple of mid age lady's comments about a mid age slim guy walking by in a speed-do swimming suit. It was how bad that looked on a guy and how bad seeing his "junk" was and on they went.
Later a young lady walked by along the ocean surf with a thong on and they were saying how nice she looked.

I sometimes think IF things were turned around where females wore something to hid their breasts to make them flat and men wore some kind of padded "cup" down there to push it out and make them bigger.....would these lady's on the beach feel the same?

[Frédérique]

Would GG's Prefer To Be Male

Beats me. Since some of us males want to be female, it follows that some girls may wish to be boys, for a myriad of reasons. I also assume that there are MANY females who would NOT want to be male, no thanks, no way, etc. Who can blame them? Being male is no bed of roses, which may explain why some of us crossdress, i.e. to create that bed of roses…


Do CD's and men have it easier and better than our opposite gender????

Beats me. Being male, I don’t know how the other sex feels. I find myself catering to females, but they rarely cater to me – maybe they are suspicious of my motives, or exhibiting some sort of gender-specific reticence necessary to the survival of the human species. I would hate to be burdened with such a responsibility, so maybe males do have it better, at least on the surface, all things being relative…
:idontknow:

Meanwhile, it’s really COOL being a boy, because you can dress as a girl!!! :clap:

[Nigella]

How the heck would a GM know if a GG would prefer to be male, surely only the GG could tell you that

[Lorileah]

Last evening I went to the club as a "guy*" It took me 20 minutes from start of shower to out the door. Would GGs like that? Probably.

How many time have you heard "Sometimes I wish I was a guy so I could...." from your SO? I heard it a lot in 27 years of marriage. And in those same years when I would wear a skirt or heels or whatever she thought I was crazy and said "I would not do that if I didn't have to." So yes, in moments women want to be guys. Would they prefer it. Freddy summed it up, it would be hypocritical of us to think they would not when we would and do want to switch.

Both sides have the pluses and minuses. So many here just get the pluses and they like that. But we know the downside to being a guy, they know the downside to being female. Grass...greener...fence

* technically I was not in guy's clothes. Everything I had on was Lori's except no wig (even had light makeup)

[ReineD]

Would GG's Prefer To Be Male

No.


Do CD's and men have it easier and better than our opposit gender????

No. I dress as I please and I don't feel as if I'm missing out on anything. If I want to be casual, I am. If I want to be comfy, I am. If I want to dress up, I do. Etc. As to being a CD, I would not like to feel compelled to engage in a behavior that society tells me is unacceptable. This would be too stressful. And I would not like to direct my sexual attention to anything that is not my partner.

You're speaking from the point of view of your own fantasy which, I take it, brings you to such highs that you find it unimaginable living without it and you cannot understand why non-CDers would not want to have this fetish. Although I do not condemn fetishes (they simply are not for me), I do see fetishes as living outside of reality, and if it is strong enough it can take away from relationships with real people. I consider all our various relationships to be our most important life assets; life is lonely indeed without true connections with other people. So how could I have true connections if I live a hidden life, and in a sexual relationship, how could I have true connections if I have a sex life that is totally or partially outside of the relationship?

Disclaimer: My words above speak only to the CDers for whom dressing is not an expression of a feminine identity, or for whom the CDing is sexual and who obtain pleasure from it whether their partner is in the room with them or not. Although having this fantasy is fun for the CDer and if he is single he should enjoy it, I would not want to be the partner of a fetishist, unless of course I obtained equal sexual pleasure from the same fetish (for example, a femme Domme with a male sub). But as a GG, it is difficult for me to feel as sexually excited as my partner would be when he dresses, should he be a fetish CDer. Clothes just don't turn me on, and fundamentally, GGs don't turn me on either.

[Sabrina133]

.... It took me 20 minutes from start of shower to out the door. Would GGs like that? Probably. How many time have you heard "Sometimes I wish I was a guy so I could...." from your SO...Both sides have the pluses and minuses.... Grass...greener...fence

I think you are right .. I've had this discussion with my SO. While it takes me longer to get girled up when we go out as two women, when we do go out as male and female, she complains about how long it doesn't take me. Having said that, she's very girly -- i've only heard her wish she was a male a couple of times and that wont be discussed here. :censored: :)

[Wildaboutheels]

I'm not a GG but...

FACT: The amount of TIME [and money] any given female will spend on her appearance will almost always be directly proportional to how hard she is looking for a partner [male or female] or simply, how high is her need for attention. And just because SOME women already have partners, doesn't mean they won't still dress "for attention". Undoubtedly, the media and the internet share most of the blame for this "unreasonable expectation" for females? Well, maybe not. I think all the magazines with all their airbrushed covers at any checkout counter are the real culprit that few women WON'T be exposed to. At the very least, they are shot with IDEAL [probably artificial] LIGHTING which does not exist in the RW.

Of course MEN have it easier. Most men won't spend the time or money to do makeup because...it won't help them, in any way, shape or form. They likely won't spend any money on padding, support and shapewear because it won't help them in any way, shape or form.

Needing to spend less TIME and MONEY on their appearance as a man? I consider that easier.

[deebra]

Reine, I think you totally missed the boat as to what I was saying and how did fetish get in there. My post was simply male vs female dressing and presenting. CD's love to dress feminine which takes more time and money, women must dress feminine as demanded by our society (i.e. wearing a bra, make-up, getting their hair colored and set, stockings, shapers, etc.; these are required when they work in a professional office or dinner at a nice restaurant, etc.) Compared to men that aren't required to wear underwear, accessorize to the extent of women, hair colored or set, etc. In other words dressing as a man is easier and cheaper than as a woman, so I think some women are envious of this. A male-to -female CD has a choice to dress feminine only when he wants to where women in a professional or formal setting donot. Hope everyone understands where I was going with this. By-thu-way, when a woman spends an hour getting ready for 3 or 4 hours turning heads and getting compliments the trade off just might be worth it.

[arbon]

Per this forum over half of our CD's said they would not want to dress full time as a woman; to much time, expense and being uncomfortable. Do CD's and men have it easier and better than our opposit gender????


Heck no you don't.

most CD'rs tend to put a lot of work into trying to look like they think they are supposed to as women. They want to be very feminine and need the cloths to do it, or to give them the feeling that they are.

I live full time as a woman and dress comfortably - simple blouses, t-shirts and jeans...sometimes a skirt and on occasion a simple dress. Most days I am ready and out the door in 15-20mins. for work.
It would be boring to most crossdressers.
But the thing is I'm still feminine :)

I'm not chasing the those feelings the CD's get by wearing silky panties and getting all dolled up. I don't have to.

[Shananigans]

Oh, totally, if I were a man, I would be totally ripped...I'd be a regular Don Juan...do some modeling on the side...I'd be roguishly handsome...hilarious and witty... Every day, I would wake up in a James Bond suit.

That's like how it feels to be a guy right?

Yeah...I'd be a completely different person. Definitely NOT myself...only with a penis...no, no, no, I would be nothing like I am now.

On a serious note, everyone enjoys looking "nice" sometimes. Everyone is different; therefore, my definition of "nice" is probably very different from another woman's definition of nice. (I swear, we don't have a hive mentality). Do I scrub the toilet in thighs highs and and a corset? No. Like most people, I save my "nice" clothes for going out...when other people can see them. I do enjoy dressing up for sexual purposes with my boyfriend, but it's not really the clothes that turn me on...it's just looking sexy for my boyfriend. It makes me feel confidant.

A lot of guys have their standard "going out" look. They have a daily routine that they go through in the morning...for many, it includes a suit and tie. At the end of the day, many men like to take off that suit and tie...relax a bit. Many women feel EXACTLY the same...they get ready for work, spend all day in those clothes, and then "get comfortable" as soon as they get home.

It's really not that big of a mystery.

So, yeah, I come home and get cozy. Sometimes, I'll come home and get dressed up in a different way to surprise my SO. That's my norm. If I were a guy, I would probably be doing VERY similar things...come home, get cozy...or, maybe I'd splash on some cologne and break out a bottle of wine for my SO...

Either way, I don't get turned on by clothes now, and I'm pretty sure my "male-self" wouldn't be very turned on exclusively by clothes either. So, I think that's just ME and has very little to do with what's going on between my legs.

The fact of the matter is that if you're one of those people that just rolls out of bed in the morning...if you're too busy to be bothered with running a comb through your hair, you likely would not be a girl that takes 2 hours to get ready in the morning. You would probably be a female version of your male-self.

However, many, many people have days that they go "whole hog" and spend the day pampering themselves. The fact that they don't do it often is what makes it special.

Like most things in life, the "allure" and "fun" in activity diminishes once it becomes routine.

Here's a tip: Wear what you want...make it about YOU and not about anyone else.

[Eryn]

Considering that the vast majority of TG individuals seem to be MTF the answer seems to be "no."

Think about it. Why would someone give up being able to experience the full gamut of self-expression in favor of being restricted to those modes available to males? There are very few "masculine" activities in which females aren't allowed to participate. Women doing masculine things are considered to be trendy and empowered and they are often encouraged in these endeavors. No stigma to escape there!

[Lorileah]

Oh, totally, if I were a man, I would be totally ripped...I'd be a regular Don Juan...do some modeling on the side...I'd be roguishly handsome...hilarious and witty... Every day, I would wake up in a James Bond suit.

That's like how it feels to be a guy right?:D Now where did you get that from (I love sarcasm..:heehee:). Yeah if I were a woman men would fall at my feet...we've heard that before




A lot of guys have their standard "going out" look. They have a daily routine that they go through in the morning...for many, it includes a suit and tie. At the end of the day, many men like to take off that suit and tie...relax a bit. Many women feel EXACTLY the same...they get ready for work, spend all day in those clothes, and then "get comfortable" as soon as they get home. best analogy yet. But my uncle was just like Mr Rogers...he would come home, take off a suit and tie and put on a sport jacket to do yard work...

[Di]

Would GG's Prefer To Be Male
NEVER
I just want to be me I sometimes get all dressed up ( makeup ect) and I sometimes I am casual jeans, capris or skirts with no makeup cept lippy:D


. It took me 20 minutes from start of shower to out the door. Would GGs like that?
I can and do that when casual ..... shower....put my hair in a pony....put on sundress and lippy and out the door:D

[Stephanie47]

Lorileah is not kidding. I actually saw an IBM engineer mowing his lawn in a sport coat, shirt, tie, and slacks?????

Me, when I'm in guy mode it takes me anywhere from one minute to five to get out of the house dressed for any occasion. En femme, if I'm sans makeup, ten minutes tops. Maybe, it's because I've thought about what ensemble I'm going to wear for a couple of hours before.

As to casual dress for women. Yikes, professionalism is down the crapper. I went to a retirement function yesterday and maybe 10% of the women wore anything remotely having a hem. Frankly, the vast majority of them, if they wanted to get comfortable when getting home, they'd be totally naked.

[ReineD]

Reine, I think you totally missed the boat as to what I was saying and how did fetish get in there. My post was simply male vs female dressing and presenting.

Sorry Deebra. Sometimes I have tunnel vision ... reading too many posts I guess. :p



CD's love to dress feminine which takes more time and money, women must dress feminine as demanded by our society (i.e. wearing a bra, make-up, getting their hair colored and set, stockings, shapers, etc.; these are required when they work in a professional office or dinner at a nice restaurant, etc.) Compared to men that aren't required to wear underwear, accessorize to the extent of women, hair colored or set, etc. In other words dressing as a man is easier and cheaper than as a woman, so I think some women are envious of this.

No, we're not envious. Not in the least.

And the "dressing up" rules apply to both men and women, not just women. Men who work in offices can't just show up in tattered jeans and baseball caps either. The more professional the office, like a lawyer's office for example, the dressier will be both the men AND women. The more casual the office (for example a car rental place), the more casual will be both men AND women. If someone works in a meat-packing plant, then they'll wear clothes that they don't mind getting all grungy.

As to CDs loving to dress up in all kinds of finery and having this elevate their moods beyond the way they feel when they're dressed as men, if this is not fetish then what is it? Remember, I'm not talking about a transsexual here or a CD who dresses for identity reasons. A fetish (a love of an object) doesn't have to be sexual for it to be a fetish, although judging by the volume of trans-porn/dating/chat/etc sites on the web, there are a great many CDers for whom it IS a sexual fetish.

[Shananigans]

just like Mr Rogers...he would come home, take off a suit and tie and put on a sport jacket to do yard work...

My day is pretty much JUST like that...except, I play with waaaaaaay more puppets.


Lorileah is not kidding. I actually saw an IBM engineer mowing his lawn in a sport coat, shirt, tie, and slacks?????

As to casual dress for women. Yikes, professionalism is down the crapper. I went to a retirement function yesterday and maybe 10% of the women wore anything remotely having a hem. Frankly, the vast majority of them, if they wanted to get comfortable when getting home, they'd be totally naked.

I would actually LOVE for my neighbors to read this. It seems like everywhere I move, there is always some dude that likes to come home, get half-naked, and then ride around on his lawnmower. The wives aren't much better...they come home, get half naked, throw on a bikini top, and try their hand at digging in the dirt. They are also HUGE FANS of visors...but, I can tell you...these people have not stepped foot on a tennis court.

The only glaring issue I see with your post is "professionalism is down the crapper [...] I went to a retirement function yesterday..." PSSSSSSSH...when I retire, I am burning everything "business casual." I will do my part as a post-modern consumer and retiree buying outfits that I actually enjoy...as in NOT professional attire. I saw a "khaki skirt" the other day in the women's business casual section...it was so traumatizing that I began to beat myself with wire hangers.

I even saw a guy at a job interview in khakis...I nearly passed out on the floor.

On the other hand, I had a BLAST at Jos. A. Banks with my SO. I didn't know LEGIT suits were so...complex. THE suit is a dying masterpiece. The professional female wardrobe got stuck in this awkward place of being feminine, but not feminine enough to be sexy. Not many of us want to "get sexy" for work. (Unless, you're a stripper...but, I'd be a horrible stripper because if a man tossed me a couple $1s to dance, I'd throw them back at him and tell him to get a job). So, we're stuck with half-assery and khakis.

If I didn't wear scrubs to work...I would probably rock an awesome suit, and I'm not even lying. If I were me, I'd do me in a suit...and, I am and would Figure that out.

[KateSpade83]

In my whole life I probably only saw 5 women who I thought wanted to be men. Two dressed up in men's suits, one was dressed in guy clothes shopping for guy clothes in a thrift store, another was shopping for men's pants, and a college girl was buying men's underwear with a little bit of shame on her face.

[Jamie001]

I don't know why a woman would ever want to be a man. Women are at the top of the food chain and men are below them. Why would a woman want to step-down and be a man? There are many times that I am ashamed to be genetically male because of the senseless violence and wars that are perpetuated by men most of which is in the quest or proving who has the largest package. Do you realize that 95 percent of all violent crime is committed by men? It is completely senseless to me and I just don't get it. Women are much more evolved intellectually and emotionally whereas most men are ruled by their little head and they allow it to make most of their decisions.

[docrobbysherry]

Thank u, Reine, Di, and Shana! For your voices of reason!

Sometimes these speculatory threads written by males about what females feel or think like become, as the Duke would say, re-god-dam-diculous!

[Rachel Morley]

I have never met any women who said that they wished they were a man. I asked my own wife this once and she said to me "Are you kidding me, who would actually want to be a guy?" :)

[Kelly DeWinter]

..... Per this forum over half of our CD's said they would not want to dress full time as a woman; to much time, expense and being uncomfortable. ...............

I'm not sure where you get half, after all it is a CD fourm, everyone aspires to at least dress as a gg, mayby but with the number who eventually become TS that is a given that they dress full time. I would not be surprised if most would not mind fulltime. I think your definition time, expense and being uncomfortable cannot be ascribed to fulltime gg. It's like men very few men wear suits,dress shoes and 50 dollar hair cuts all of the time.

[ReineD]

I don't know why a woman would ever want to be a man.

Jamie, this is a matter of perception. Some women think that men are at the top of the food chain. There still is a glass ceiling for women wanting to push through the top echelons of management. But overall both men and women are happy with their birth sex.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Never met any woman who said this, but obviously some do or there wouldn't be any FTM cross dressers or transsexuals. But as for clothes, I know of at least one who prefers to wear my tee shirts and a pair of unisex gym shorts whenever she gets home from a long day at the office.

[PaulaQ]

I talked with 3 guys last night who were born women. You'd never know it to look at them now. One of them risks his life to do HRT - the testosterone levels he needs elevate his blood pressure to crazy high levels 180/110. He had to be hospitalized briefly a few weeks ago, after collapsing into unconciousness at work. He was told by the physician's in the emergency room that he was taking a terrible risk.

So yes, some GG's would prefer to be male, even if they have to risk their lives to do it. BTW, the double standard where women can wear male clothing is a two edged sword for FtM's. Socially, they can get away with cross gender expression that GM's really can't - but that also makes it harder for them to be seen as trying to BE masculine. (They also get a really raw deal in terms of SRS - their surgery is not nearly as effective and well developed as MtF SRS. This is why most FtM's don't opt for "the surgery", beyond a double mastectomy.)

I really enjoy the participation of the FtM's in my support group. I find the similarties and differnces in their experiences to be absolutely fascinating.

Of course, most GG's don't want to be male, any more than most GM's want to be female.

[ReineD]

Paula, the F2M's you mention, if they are transitioning, never had a female gender to begin with so we can't really say they are or were GGs in the same sense that the OP intended. Your friends are men who were born with the defect of not having male sexual characteristics. If you told them they were or had been GGs, they would be highly insulted ... I know a few F2Ms and they do not, nor did they ever consider themselves GG.

[PaulaQ]

Paula, the F2M's you mention, if they are transitioning, never had a female gender to begin with so we can't really say they are or were GGs in the same sense that the OP intended. Your friends are men who were born with the defect of not having male sexual characteristics. If you told them they were or had been GGs, they would be highly insulted ... I know a few F2Ms and they do not, nor did they ever consider themselves GG.

I'll be honest - I don't know what the OP intended with this question. Give me a definition for GG then, precise please.

What does "transitioning" have to do with anything? They either have an incongruent gender, or they do not. The overwhelming evidence is that this is a developmental issue that happens in utero. What about F2M's who haven't figured out that they need to transition yet, what are they?

The F2Ms I know are some of the best MEN I've ever met.

I don't consider F2M's to have been women - I agree that would be insulting. Our sense of gender resides in the mind, and is more powerful than the gender of the body. But politics aside, genetically, they are female. They are men cursed with female bodies. A great many of them, if they stop HRT, are able to give birth, and genetic tests would consider them female. There are, of course, exceptions to this too - intersexed individuals, for example. Is there some other term to be used for F2M's? By all appearances, and by every scientific test we currently have, the vast majority of them look like, and test out as genetically female. (I'm not trying to insult anyone - I'm not. I am trying to be precise. I am genetically male. I've fathered a child - that is good evidence that I am, in fact, biologically male. I consider myself a woman, despite all that, and am starting work to fix this gross mistake of my anatomy.)

Mainly I was trying to make the point that there is a side to this question that is more serious than what I believe the OP had considered. As I said, one of my good friends is risking his life to continue HRT, because dying as a man is better than living as a woman for him. He said this without any hesitation, and after warning folks not on HRT to consider the risks. Everyone in the room on HRT agreed with this, and when asked "would you do this again?" ALL of them said "yes, despite the risks."

[noeleena]

Hi,

How many female would really desire to be men. Psychologically . Mentalally & Emotionally,

i would say not many if i asked our women from our groups some 230 or close to. now i know these women quite well , iv not heard any say they would , now they know myself very well. so if we talked about myself as a woman whos different i would say no one has brought it up.

I have talked with a friend who told me a while ago that after the war there were a few women who said they would loved to have been born male i dont know how many though the time then may have had a bearing on the answer compared to our time now or the last say 20 years,.

My self as its well documented im not male let alone enough to even be able to think as one ,to me its like why do guys wont to be women. or men dress like women. & to take on a personer of one.
you see to me its never ever been about clothes, thats from age 10. now heres a ? if & this is through out history had men & women worn the same dress or toga. = clothes. would men still try to be like women going through history i dont see many women wonting to be men i would say some would have of cause.

Or the feeling im getting is as in history . women were subdued keeped under rules that governed women more so than men in pretty much all aspects of life & as to how they dressed or for some a cast system. how would i feel liveing at this time lets say in greek times 2000 years ago. would i wont that freedom men had.

yet life was hard for men well for many was , we did not have to train for war knowing our life would / could be short. killed or maimed , childbirth would allways have been an issue or become slaves.

We have to day to live a life that has so much more freedom yes we can wear what we like yet that does not do it for me its who we are in our selfs what makes us what we are. going back up to what i first wrote, in my first line. that to me is what its about .

would i wont to be a man / male in his intiriety, all male 100 % nothing more nothing less,

one word....NO...

Yes i know i have my difference's & my issues i contend with its still the same answer. no way ever.

...noeleena...

[Greenie]

Jamie, this is a matter of perception. Some women think that men are at the top of the food chain. There still is a glass ceiling for women wanting to push through the top echelons of management. But overall both men and women are happy with their birth sex.



This is still very true. While I would not like to be a man I do find it interesting our different perceptions of gender. Many of the MtF on this site both CDers and TG alike, have this perception that we can wear whatever we want. They envy us for our beauty and to be able to have unlimited fashion choices. While that is true, these unlimited fashion choices hinder us in the real world. For men and interviews it is easy(er) Not easy but bare with me as I type through this thought.. Slacks, shirt, tie, maybe a sports coat. For women we HAVE to agonize over every detail. A top cannot be to revealing or they will think I am trying to get this job by being sexy. Heaven forbid I am too conservative or I am a prude. Are my shoes in style, is the heel to high.... Is my interview with a man or a woman. This changes how I need to dress in order to be perceived as an actual candidate. If its a woman I cannot be too pretty, but she will judge me if I am frumpy. Is a man just going to be looking at my chest the whole time?

These conscious decisions in fashion can, and DO impact how we are seen in our employers or future employers eyes. This glass ceiling definitely does still exist. As a young professional, I have been in situations where I have SEEN the discrepancy between men and women. Sad fact is that men are STILL paid more. They STILL advance further in their chosen fields (mostly, not like nurses and stuff) faster and with higher pay then women.

I am an Urban Planner and Sustainable designer. My profession is riddled with older, white, MEN. I went in for a panel interview where there was only ONE woman on the panel, and she was a secretary. :/

While I see the reasons that men want to be women, I often feel that the hardships we face are over looked in favor of the beauty aspect. There is more to being a woman than clothes.

Professionally. I think being a man would make my life easier. In certain regards. Physically and psychologically I would prefer to stay a woman even if that means that I need to have the "dreaded monthly monster" because having children is one of my ultimate goals in life.

[ReineD]

I'll be honest - I don't know what the OP intended with this question. Give me a definition for GG then, precise please.

When the OP said, "Would GGs prefer to be male", I took it that he meant, "Would genetic girls who think of themselves as being women, prefer to be male". Obviously, a F2M individual who is a birth female in terms of being XX but who does not consider himself to be female, does prefer to have a male body, hence the F2M assignation. There's no need to ask the question in his case.



What does "transitioning" have to do with anything? They either have an incongruent gender, or they do not. The overwhelming evidence is that this is a developmental issue that happens in utero. What about F2M's who haven't figured out that they need to transition yet, what are they?

You did mention HRT, which is a process that converts the secondary sexual characteristics (breasts, skin, and body hair for M2Fs, and beard, body hair, and voice for F2Ms) from one sex to the other. This is the beginning of transition.

From my experience (a campus alt gender group) a F2M who hasn't figured himself out yet is quite rare. F2Ms don't tend to have the sexual/clothing/fetish issues that can obscure things for many late onset M2F TSs. But still, F2Ms represent a very small segment of our population and I take it that the OP was asking a general question about most GGs, rather than focusing on the exceptions. [/QUOTE]

[Jamie001]

These discussion would be easier to follow if we used the term "gender" to refer to the brain and "sex" to refer to the reproductive organs that the person is born with. Therefore, we would use the term "sex reassignment" rather than "gender reassignment". Gender cannot be reassigned because it is hard-wired in the brain and sometimes doesn't match the person's physical sex. Does that make sense?

[ReineD]

That is so true, Jamie. The people who refer to SRS as GRS seem to have it backwards. :p

[Kate Simmons]

I remember seeing a talk show with crossdressers on it some years ago with some doing their transformation on the show. When a woman in the audience was asked by the host if she would want to be a man, she said:"Who would ever want to be one?" There ya have it Hon.:heehee::)

[Shananigans]

On the side topic of "which gender or sex has it better or worse," all I have to say is RELATIVITY, my friends. The fact of the matter is that there are around 7 billion people on this planet...that means a little over 3 billion people are male and a little over 3 billion people are female.

Now, imagine what 100,000 people looks like. TRY to imagine 1 million people...now, 100 million people. 1 billion is 1000 million people...now, try to comprehend 3 billion. You can't.

Overall, the consensus seems that women have had a rough start on this planet. In many countries, women are still seen as property that is listed (literally) among a man's cattle, land, chickens... PERSONALLY, I can't really put myself into that woman's shoes, and I am going to go ahead and assume that most of us cannot begin to comprehend what that feels like.

If the conversation here is revolving around "who has it easiest" in relation to who can wear what...or, who has the freedom to express themselves in XYZ manner... WOW, WE ARE A PRIVILEGED LOT!!!! And, here we are pinning the experience of 7 billion other people on our own privileged outlooks? Please.

I can sit here all day and say, "Well, men have it so much easier than me!...Just look how entitled they are!" But, is that really true? Do I know what it feels like to be the son who saw his family slaughtered by a rebel army that kidnapped him and told him that he is now THEIR soldier?...So, that he can slaughter another boy's family and recruit him into the same, sad situation?

Hmmm...

We have the luxury to pick and choose which clothes we put on our back...not whether or not we will even have any. We can argue about high heels, because we don't have to run away from anybody while wearing them. In comparison to many people in this world, if we have the luxury to sit here and argue about crap like this on our computers, we have it pretty damned well. Wouldn't you say so? All of us.

But, we are remain focused on how we can better our OWN situations, instead of how we can better the lives of the people in this world that truly deserve better. We are all human...we all hurt...we all love...but, there are people out there that are hurting in ways that we cannot begin to imagine. It's not REALLY about what gender has it better or worse, it's that we STILL think in those terms. There is no gender that has it better or worse!...There are just the people that truly have the luxury to worry about stupid shit like that, and the people that don't. When you think you have a terrible time because you can't go outside in high heels, or you feel women aren't earning as much as men...reevaluate your life and think realize you have it PRETTY DAMNED AWESOME. Why? Because, most of us have the ability to change our life situation. But, unlike most of us, there are still billions of people that are truly unable to change their life situations.

[Lorileah]

The fact of the matter is that there are around 7 billion people on this planet...that means a little over 3 billion people are male and a little over 3 billion people are female. and .5 billion are TG....well that is MY math :)

I agree Shanan. The question comes up here often about being a woman in a different time. And in reality up until 40 years ago, I don't think most TGs would. Those conditions are still around in other parts of the world as you pointed out. Just a quick look at these areas should convince most that male have a better life in these situations. Doesn't mean they use that power wisely though,

[Eryn]

Jamie, this is a matter of perception. Some women think that men are at the top of the food chain. There still is a glass ceiling for women wanting to push through the top echelons of management....

Using the US as an example, there are 312,000,000 of us, roughly half men and half women. Assuming that the top 10,000 management positions are filled exclusively by men (they really aren't, but let's assume the worst) that means that there are about 156,000,000 women who aren't in the upper echelons of management. There are also 155,990,000 men who aren't in those echelons. That's a difference between the genders of 0.007%!

In middle management the situation is much better for women and will become even more so because women now account for the great majority of college graduates. In my last job I was dead-ended from advancement because of a court-imposed quota favoring females over males. I've never heard of the opposite occurring.

[ReineD]

Male privilege does exist, Eryn. I used the glass ceiling as just an example of areas where some women believe there is a double standard that favors men. Although you may not agree with every point in the following list of areas where male privilege is alive and well, you may be able to see the truth in many of the points:

http://sap.mit.edu/content/pdf/male_privilege.pdf

The best people to talk to about this are M2F transitioners. They've lived both sides of the fence and they will be the first to tell you they do have to give up male privilege. In their cases, the joy of living life as a woman after all these years outweighs everything else, but this does not negate the existence of male privilege ... and the perception among many women, even contemporary women, that in some areas life strongly favors men, including who gets custody of teenage boys. I guess we all have our gripes.


Using the US as an example, there are 312,000,000 of us, roughly half men and half women. Assuming that the top 10,000 management positions are filled exclusively by men (they really aren't, but let's assume the worst) that means that there are about 156,000,000 women who aren't in the upper echelons of management. There are also 155,990,000 men who aren't in those echelons. That's a difference between the genders of 0.007%!

Here's a fortune 500 article showing the percentage of women in top management over the last 4 years: under 15%: a huge difference between men and women at that level.

As to middle management, I suspect it is weighed male/female depending on the industry. You might be in an industry that more women go into? If you were in construction there would be more male middle managers?

And if you look up male-female income disparity or "gender gap wage", you'll see evidence that men still are very much ahead in that area as well.



Thank u, Reine, Di, and Shana! For your voices of reason!

Sometimes these speculatory threads written by males about what females feel or think like become, as the Duke would say, re-god-dam-diculous!

Thanks, Sherry ... and I agree. :)

[STACY B]

I wish I was a Man ,,, lol,,, But I am not a GG so I guess I will stay in the Waste land for now ,,, Ye Ol Tranny waste Land ,, Boo !!

[Greenie]

Male privilege does exist

Here's a fortune 500 article showing the percentage of women in top management over the last 4 years: under 15%: a huge difference between men and women at that level.

As to middle management, I suspect it is weighed male/female depending on the industry. You might be in an industry that more women go into? If you were in construction there would be more male middle managers?



Lol. Maybe at Starbucks with me. We are almost always women or gay men. A Disproportionate amount lol. :)

[ReineD]

Our Starbucks is pretty even across the board: straights and gays, girls and guys. Mostly students though since it's a college town. But there is very much an age bias. They wouldn't give me a job! :p

[Eryn]

Reine, my point is that it is futile to worry about the gender makeup of top management because it is a vanishingly small proportion of the population. Whether they are men, women, or Martians makes little difference to the general population. How much difference did changing the race of the president have on the salaries of citizens of the same race?

Having experienced arbitrary (and government-approved) gender discrimination I find I don't like it much. However, I can think of very few positions now where an employer can arbitrarily tell a woman "Sorry, that job is only open to males."

As far as salaries go the fact is that many more men than women attended college prior to 1980. In 1970, 57.7% of students were men. These people are now on top of the salary pile and it's no surprise that the majority of them are men.

Times have changed and the educational percentages have reversed. 56% of graduates are women and these women are now enrolled in the same lucrative fields that used to be predominantly male. 18% of the degrees earned by women are now in business fields, over twice as many as are earned by women in heath care fields (which are themselves now quite remunerative!).

We've seen a sea change in levels of education between men and women and when these women get their seniority in business and industry there can't help but be another sea change in representation of women in management and accompanying salaries as the past decades' graduates work their way up through the ranks.

There's no way I'd want to be a young male today. With the current trends males now face both social and institutional impediments to success. Things look pretty grim for them in a decade or two since few people seem to think that anything is wrong with that situation.

[ReineD]

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree, Eryn. But one thing is sure ... if you ask 100 women in the workforce if they feel that men have an advantage, the majority of them will say yes.

And this takes me back to my comment to Jamie. It's all a matter of perception.

[Jamie001]

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree, Eryn. But one thing is sure ... if you ask 100 women in the workforce if they feel that men have an advantage, the majority of them will say yes.

And this takes me back to my comment to Jamie. It's all a matter of perception.

Yes, it is a matter of perception and what is important to you. Some folks are very concerned about status and money and if that is their primary goal, then males have the advantage. On the other hand, women are much less violent, more communicative, more expressive, and overall, simply more evolved than males.

[busker]

There are just the people that truly have the luxury to worry about stupid shit like that, and the people that don't.

Shan, this is so nicely put. Thanks!

[busker]

On the other hand, women are much less violent, more communicative, more expressive, and overall, simply more evolved than males.

Jamie, I just turned 70 and this statement wouldn't really square with my experience. There are lots of great people, male and female, but please, let's keep things in perspective.