The fantasy girl is your enemy

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Recently, people have commented on things like how they will feel, will they pass..
or people wondering about whether they can ever feel like they are not a guy in a dress...or whether their quality of life will improve..

I also notice sometimes that ts women come here an overly focus on things like clothes and appearance and presentation PRIOR to going full time...its a natural part of starting out, its kind of unavoidable..but....

What I wanted to say about that is to be wary of building up a fantasy woman in your mind.

My fantasy woman was elegant, she wore a lot of long casual dresses and had very nicely painted hands and toes. She moved from video games and beer to chick flicks and white wine.. She dates men and loves romantic nights cuddling on the couch ... She takes care of her house and has a cute bedroom set and room that makes her feel good every night.. and so much more..

In hindsight, this woman was not my friend...she made it much harder for me to accept myself...she doesn't even exist...(except the elegant part)..ahem
I wasted a lot of my mental energy aiming at a cipher..

What I learned more than anything was that I am just me...and I now am blessed with the simple feeling that I undoubtedly exist. Elimination of that doubt is a very big deal. It doesn't bother me that i don't really feel the need to paint my toes or wear sundresses...i prefer shorts and oldnavy tshirts...i take 10 minutes to get ready most days...it drives me nuts to get my hair right..i have no patience for it....i can't wait for evil dead2 to come out and white wine still tastes bitter to me...but that's just me...

Trying to become that fantasy woman would have resulted in failure.

Its natural to wonder, its natural to hope, to aspire, but just be careful and realistic..

just an unsolicited :2c:thought for the day..

[kimdl93]

its a useful thought. I honestly was held back from even dressing alone, at least in part, by fears that I wouldn't be able to look good enough. I didn't really have an idealized vision of myself, but I did apply too critical a standard. Part of self acceptance is being able to say "that's good enough". Its liberating to abandon the idea. and accept oneself, warts and all. I may not be pretty, never will be, but I'm happy with myself as I am.

[SarahVA]

I think we probably all have a "fantasy woman" in mind to a greater or lesser degree...I know I did (do?). But the fundamental thing for me is that dressing and making a female presentation is an outward manifestation & expression of the feelings I always have inside. I have no illusions regarding "passing" or being other than a "guy in a dress" (though I try hard to minimize that!) and would I like to gt a professional makeover/transformation? Sure... but the bottom line is that when I dress fully I just feel right, I feel my outward appearance matches my inner identity...I am me.

[LeaP]

Wow, Kaitlyn, I like your fantasy girl better than mine. I think that I set the bar too low!

There are all types of self-images that people construct, I suppose. Mine seems more behavior and emotion-based than appearance-based. My version is the effusive, thoughtful, energetic presence in the room that people like. The reality would probably be that I would remain somewhat reclusive ... and I'm just not energetic. But everyone NEEDS some sort of self-image, a trans-person's inevitably being imaginary to a large degree, at least at first. Without, your identity is like water without a container.

As far as appearance goes, my therapist asked me once if I would be content looking like a middle-aged woman (hmmm - maybe SHE should raise the bar?). I gave her a funny look and said "what else would I be??" And she went on to explain the teen and twenty-something images that many have - and pursue. Maybe it's my age, but I think all hopes of that were lost decades ago. I did run into a post-OP my age who was amazing-looking, though. She started off bearded and bald and wound up looking like she was a 35 year-old model. It seems better to aspire somewhat to THAT rather than Terence Stamp as Bernadette in Priscilla Queen of the Desert.

But back to realism ... I would like to be passable. Fit. "Not unpleasant-looking" would be just fine. And I HOPE these, at least, aren't complete pie in the sky. Or it will be a rough ride.

I already love white wine! Always have. Particularly sweet & acid, slatey Rieslings from the Mosel.

[KellyJameson]

Kaitlyn.. In my opinion you may have written one of the best threads I have ever read on this forum.

You went right to the heart of the problem.

Escaping into fantasy is one coping device adopted in childhood to keep our gender alive inside us as children when it cannot be lived and this is attached to repression and dissociation.

The fantasy must be let go of if you are going to get back to yourself again.

Emulating women is not being a woman because there is only one woman that is you.

It is vital to not lose yourself in the attempt to find yourself by acting how you fantasize a woman would act

Transsexuality is all about integrity on every level. There cannot be any falseness or you will go from one misery into another.

This fantasy stuff about being a woman makes me crazy when I read it.

Aspire to be the best you can be but do not become someone else because the whole purpose is to become yourself.

Thank you for your courage to say what you think and most importantly sharing your hard earned wisdom Kaitlyn

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Kelly said..
"This fantasy stuff about being a woman makes me crazy when I read it."

me too...that's part of why I threw this out there...

++++

ughh...reisling....lol...

Lea I think the emotional ideal is at least as problematic than a physical one..

A rational person will at some level know some physical things are simply unattainable

..... but emotional things seem VERY attainable...HRT will make me feel this...SRS will help me feel that...I anticipated feelings that never came..

You can't control how you feel, you just feel... and hrt, life experience and transition steps will cause you to feel, and if you expect some kind of grand feminization of your feelings..be careful...it may happen, it may not...and whatever happens may happen quickly or over 10 years to a lifetime...

I think my OP was in reaction to some threads where people focused on "what will I feel.." in different ways...
my general feeling is don't sweat it...focus on nuts and bolts of required steps ...take good care of yourself and plough ahead (if you are transitioning)...and if you are unsure, don't put too much thought into looking forward to things that may be more about an idealization of what being female means..

[AllieSF]

Thank for putting in words that which I have thought for so long, as some put so much value on the image versus what is really important, feeling good about who they are. What you describe is so common for many people. I used to compare myself to Walter Mitty, the dreamer/fantasizer, as I was always wanting to be someone other and better than myself, and that had nothing to do with the "T" side of me, because that didn't exist until just a few years ago. I wanted to be smarter than others, a better baseball player than I was, the star water skier, though I hardly ever had a chance to water ski, the better employee who would rise through the ranks, the better dancer because I love to dance. Whatever it was, I many times wanted to be better and even fantasized about being mare than better at it, even to this day, again with the "T" part not included. When I throw that in, I dream about being the woman of my dreams. Thankfully, I have a heavy dose of realism and am very pragmatic, so those thoughts are just that and they disappear as fast as they pop up. A healthy and realistic view of life is definitely needed when transitioning. Set the sights too high and a lot of serious disappointment may just be waiting for one if they cannot handle the true reality of it all. I see that in a lot of posts on this site. Thanks for starting this thread.

[GeorgiaHall]

Thanks for the great thread.

[kellycan27]

IMO a bit of fantasy can give incentive to push on. During my own transition I admittedly did my share of fantasizing about the life I wanted. ( whether attainable or not in the real world). I fantasized about having a nice figure.. It gave me incentive to eat healthier, exercise more, and just take better care of my body in general. Fantasizing about my life post transition gave me the incentive ( in part) to work towards living that life. Something to strive for.

[Anne2345]

Just what exactly are you saying, Kaitlyn??!

I mean, you better not be saying what I think you are saying!!!

Because I'm totally going to be Arwen, Kaitlyn!! I totally am!!!

And neither you nor anyone else can stop me!!!!

So there! Take that!!!

[kimdl93]

http://www.filmofilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Game-of-Thrones.jpg

As long as we're fantasizing, I'll see your Arwen and raise you a Daenerys!

[LeaP]

ughh...reisling....lol...

Lea I think the emotional ideal is at least as problematic than a physical one...

I KNEW you'd say that about the Riesling! Knew it, knew it, knew it! But have you ever had a Trockenbeerenauslese?

Ya, I know the emotional ideal is equally problematic.

Umm - Anne ... Liv Tyler is 5'10". But other than that - :thumbsup: you're there! Now, repeat 3 times, clicking your heels each time.

[Amy A]

This is a genuinely interesting thread.

I've been trying to think this way for a while now. When you start to try and hold yourself up to ideals that most GGs can't (or won't) attain then it's time for a reality check. I do think that beyond the personal fantasy, there's also very often a collective one amongst some of the members here about female lifestyles and personalities. I get a bit tired of reading about gracefulness and what I see as being a very narrow and idealised view of femininity. I'm still figuring out who I am but graceful will never be used to describe me!

I think, in truth, after transition I'll live a life very similar to the one I do now, but with the added freedom that being true to yourself brings (although I realise this somewhat relies on me one day being able to pass comfortably, so perhaps there's the fantasy). I'll still want to ride motorbikes, go camping in a muddy field with a bunch of mates and a weekend's supply of Old Peculiar, scramble over rocks in the Lake District. But I'll be able to express other sides to me that I've kept hidden, and who knows where that will take me.

So yes, I agree that you have to be the best YOU that you can be. What's the point of going through all of this just to live another lie?

[AllieSF]

IMO a bit of fantasy can give incentive to push on. During my own transition I admittedly did my share of fantasizing about the life I wanted. ( whether attainable or not in the real world). I fantasized about having a nice figure.. It gave me incentive to eat healthier, exercise more, and just take better care of my body in general. Fantasizing about my life post transition gave me the incentive ( in part) to work towards living that life. Something to strive for.

I agree that it is always good to have goals, some a stretch and maybe some unattainable. The trick is to be founded emotionally and mature enough to recognize that they may be long reaches and maybe, or even not, possible of reaching, that they are goals. That way when one finally sees the truth of where they can actually get to, which may be way below where they hoped, they will not be a totally disappointed resulting in more harm than good. For me it would not be such a fine line, while for others it may be very fine and perilous.

[STACY B]

One thing for sure when you finally accept not looking like your fantasy woman you sure save a lot of Money ,,lol,,, Make permanent changes works the best ,, As for instant Gratification you may as well beat your head against the wall ,, There are a few an I say this really lightly for a few that are just real fem an Lucky as hell to be real small an petite ,, But that's always the case in anything ,,, You always have 1 ,,, But for the MOST part were just gonna be who we are an just deal with that . Hell as LAZY as I am I gave up LONG AGO ,,,, You get what ya see ,, I knew I would never last ,,, signed,,, ( Lady Shrek) ,,,, lol,,, REALLY,,,,REALLY

[ReineD]

Brillian post, Kaitlyn, and what makes it so brilliant is that it applies to every situation in life!

If we imagine a certain outcome based on what we'd like to happen, we'll be disappointed because life rarely is predictable. This happened to me. I imagined that my life would look a certain way after my divorce, and it's nowhere close to that. I imagined that when I sold the family house I would move into a cute little house redone just the way that I like it, and that's not remotely close to where I'm at.

I'm not comparing transition to moving ... just saying that anytime any one of us expects our ideals to materialize, we set ourselves up for a big letdown.

[Angela Campbell]

When it comes to looks I usually do not expect much and I am thrilled when something works better than I expected. No fantasy girl here but I know there is always room for improvement.

For everything else....I don't know what to expect I am in the twilight zone most of the time.

[stefan37]

I no longer feel I am on a runaway train and things have slowed. I have a vision of what I would like to look like and the reality will nothing like what I envision. I guess in some ways I am transitioning differently than some. I will not be able to afford ffs for some time. SRS may be achievable sooner if my insurance carrier picks all or part of the tab. I am getting close to initially clearing my face and neck and after that expense is gone I can start saving for other procedures. In the meantime I am going about my life transitioning along the way. I have no illusions at this point. I am 56 and my genes are what they are. It is enough for me to live as authentically as I can at this time. I will be filing for name change and when that becomes official I can envision going full time as I am now. what it will be will be. Thanks god I am blessed with extreme self confidence and could not care what others think. Those that accept I let into my life and those not accepting or act as obstacles are being jettisoned. I have no need for negativity in my life at this time. Clothes and other things people perceive we need to be accepted as a woman I do not get distressed over if I am not wearing. I work and live in t shirts and dungarees(there I just aged myself). but there is a huge change in my thinking. I am actually starting to feel authentic and project that to others.

[Rianna Humble]

I'm still figuring out who I am but graceful will never be used to describe me!

That is where you and I differ I am all for dis graceful slide into old age :heehee:

[docrobbysherry]

Becoming my dream girl isn't an issue for me. I do that practically every time I dress!:battingeyelashes:

The issue is getting PAST Sherry and on with my REAL LIFE!:doh:

205121

[Shapeshiffter]

As I am about to turn 60 and work in a factory with a mostly female staff, all I ever wanted was to fit in and be one of the girls. I am never going to be young and pretty. But I am excepted and treated as any other women there. Even the people that take the factory tour except me as female as long as I keep my mouth shut. When I do talk I get really puzzled looks.

[KellyJameson]

Not to be superficial or anything but I really like that piece of jewelry Arwen is wearing in the picture Anne posted.

Geez ! For a transsexual I'm such a crossdresser sometimes.

[Badtranny]

I don't know about that Kait, I think it all depends on how realistic that fantasy is.

I definitely have an idealized vision of my goal, but I get closer to that vision every year. I have a lot of work left to do and a long way yet to travel, but shouldn't a person's reach exceed their grasp?

We should always be trying to get better. If we're not working towards a goal, then what are we working for?

I agree that people can have completely unrealistic expectations of transition, but that is usually corrected after a year of HRT doesn't turn them into a beauty queen. Lately we've had quite a few people coming through who will soon be suffering major disappointments, but I think that's largely due to a propensity for delusion. Some people just lack self awareness, others are very aware of their station yet desire improvement. ...and are willing to work for it.

[kellycan27]

Not to be superficial or anything but I really like that peice of jewelry Arwen is wearing in the picture Anne posted.

Geez ! For a transsexual I'm such a crossdresser sometimes.

That's funny! I have been a member of a few TS sites and the general rule seems to be that any talk of clothing or actually being girly was almost taboo.. or as you Hinted...cross dresser topics or superficial. Personally I like being girly and I like girly things. Not that I have the time or desire to dress to the nines all the time. I do enjoy " prettying up" and the attention I receive when doing it.

[Cindy J Angel]

This is true fantasy versus realty. for me aver time I dress my fantasy come true. and each day I go out and do something that I have not done my fantasy become one more realty. one step at a time i will never be Barbe but i will be Cindy

[Nicole Erin]

I think most people have this "ideal" image of what they want to be. That is why so many younger people think they will be models or movie stars or whatever. I used to have a stupid dream at one point and it wasn't until age 21 that I realized it just wasn't going to happen. The real world eventually comes along and crushes dreams for all except the luckiest few.

It is true that any given TG will try to make themselves into their "ideal" as much as they can within real boundaries.
Then you find out it is a lot of work and acting. So you learn to do the best you can with what you have.

For me, I never really had an "ideal" woman I would like to be. What I have isn't much but unlike too many TG, I learned to accept it and make the best of it. If you cannot be happy with what you have then having more whatever is not going to cure the problem.
Basically, once "there" becomes "here", you will simply seek out another "there" to obsess about.

[Beth-Lock]

My fantasies were not quite that extravagant, but were more concretely of the CD type.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Oh dear'e dear'e me no fantisy here never was i know how i looked at age ten & did not like it then & now no damm different. if you put me in with the Russian's the older ones I fit in to a tee. the working class yes & drop me down to Prussia id be at home , theres nothing girl'e about this woman im a builder used to hard work. i know my place.

as to elegant yea right,give me a break well yes i dress in our period wear = clothes of 1900 to 14. i dont fool any one ,,my clothes are just plain because id look stupid in frilly wear. i could have the best looking clothes & feel absoutlly out of place. im not a dreamer i face how i look square on , nothing about my looks say female or woman. never will ether. wonder why i dont hang out with dresser's you know why. id be so embarrised, hey iv tryed did not feel one bit of the group.

as for my expections im female born plus a bit xtra a bit weird grown into a woman no wimp hard working, grubby hands , sure no nail pol , makeup what for to cover my lovely olive skin, dress sence is pretty good & make my own clothes. nice & simple.if you meet me youll wonder what the hell have you struck here..

You wont ....REAL LIFE ....i live it every day dont mess with me......as for fantisy = no idear.

...noeleena...

[Ann Louise]

I am fortunate to work in a well mixed gender environment, where in fact most of our higher level management are women - strong confident women. In this environment it's readily apparent that there is a distinct difference between a typical, modern woman and the childhood fantasies one might have about just what a "girl" is.

The women I work with are distinctly feminine, yet bear little psychological resemblance to our contemporary culture's stereotypical portrayal of them.

[mary something]

I think to some degree it is only normal to have some type of stereotype in our heads at first to aspire to. Teenage girls seem to do this type of thing also when they experiment with different types of looks and behaviors while searching for their adult identity. They have the luxury of having a period of years without very many adult responsibilities to grow into themselves, while we have to do this at a stage of our lives when it isn't quite as easy.

I think it is very important for someone who feels strongly enough about their female identity to transition gender and social roles to avoid this trap that you are speaking of. Wouldn't that be kinda like trading one persona that is ill fitting for another?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i'm not talking about crossdressing, or even goals and desires... I had goals and desires

And its totally normal to fantasize..

and to be honest I was touching a bit on appearance (And most everybody went there), but much more focused on the internal and emotional aspects of completing transition vs what its like to be thinking about transition 24/7 in your head
and I read over and over about all the anxiety people have about whether they will be good enough, or feel good enough about themselves as women, and i'm just pointing out that there is a good chance you've set a very high bar for yourself for what it is to
"be a woman"

you can't become a her, you can only become a you...its not a criticism of how anyone motivated themselves, its just an observation

[stefan37]

I can relate you what your are talking about internally. I seem to be smack dead in the middle right now and in many ways it sucks, but there is a progression. I have thought about some things , but with the dissolution of my marriage and the fact I am not expending energy to keep it together, I have found that I have a different mindset. I find my mind is in a different place and it is hard to explain or put into words. It seems like my thoughts are clearer on my direction and the steps I need to take to reach that goal. I actually feel more comfortable showing the world my true self. I am practicing, training and using my voice as much daily. I find it easier if I do not switch back and forth. I and switching back and forth much less. I feel much more comfortable with myself.
People have picked up and have asked why do I seem so positive and what is my secret. They really want to know when I tell them I am alcohol free, watch my weight and swim 3 times a week. There is no fantasy. This is my life and will be in the foreseeable future. I have to get up daily, run my business and perform all the tasks anybody would need to survive. Only difference is since I am making solid progress towards letting my inner soul free I am feeling very comfortable. My goal is at some point in the near future integrate fully so that my gd is gone completely. It is much better today than it was a year ago by a long shot. I am finding it difficult to put the words together how my feelings have changed in the last month. It is an internal feeling very similar what i was feeling after my 2nd therapy session. It was as if I turned on a light switch and just like allowing the electrons to flow to produce light, My neurons were released and allowed my mind to become clear about what I needed to do. I think those that have gone through this phase will understand what I am describing.

I plan to apply for legal name change in the next week. It is an exciting time, but also a scary time as it is anther concrete step toward my pursuit of wholeness. I expect to be presented with an entirely new set of challenges many I have not even thought of. I will have no choice but to confront those challenges head on and bring them to resolution. I can make no excuses. I have made my choices and I have to continue to own them and take responsibility for whatever outcome transpires.

[mary something]

i'm just pointing out that there is a good chance you've set a very high bar for yourself for what it is to, "be a woman"

you can't become a her, you can only become a you...

I didn't find anything critical in your comments and observations, only a lot of wisdom and perspective that I try to learn from :)

I agree with your message wholeheartedly! In my head I aspire to be all composed, sophisticated, and glamorous, like a modern day Princess Di. The reality is that I'm more of a Bridget Jones probably, and it's ok to just be "you" and who you really are.

[Kathryn Martin]

you can't become a her, you can only become a you...its not a criticism of how anyone motivated themselves, its just an observation

This thread is really interesting. I completely agree with what you are saying, Kaitelyn. I always felt that Helen Mirren and Judy Dench presented themselves in ways that I wanted to aspire to. But who I am as a person that is what I really wanted to be. I knew for far too long who I was and to give myself the space in which I could unveil the I am was my real core of transition. That I am elegant, poised, a good conversationalist and downright gorgeous is simply a by-product of being me.:D

Fantasy women suck, as every 12-89 year old woman will tell you.