My wife CRUCIFIED me last night . . . .

[Anne2345]

I have written in the past about how supportive my wife has been.

I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, but I learned last night that she had been bottling up a lot of her emotions, thoughts, and feelings for some time.

Anyways, last night, she just completely, totally, and devastatingly reamed my ass good. She really let me have it. In so doing, she made me feel small, broken, freakish, selfish, and ashamed.

To her, as she angrily and disapprovingly pointed out, I have been transitioning before her very eyes, which is actually true. I have been, and this has been by design. I mean, these things do not happen by accident, right?

Regardless, she said she can’t take it anymore. She called me selfish and obsessed. She accused me of being all about me. She stated none of this is right. She said that I am not a woman, that I am instead a man. She claimed that I am making myself unemployable. She said I will never be accepted for who I “want” or “think” myself to be. She explained that she is embarrassed by me, and that she can’t have me drag her down in the eyes of others.

And perhaps worst of all, she brought our eight year old daughter into the beat down. She hammered in how unfair it would be to our daughter for me to continue on and transition. She said our daughter should not be placed in the position where school mates and other children will make fun of her and ridicule her because of me. She said our daughter should not be placed in a position where she will be embarrassed and ashamed that I am her parent. She said that I owe it to our daughter to provide her with a safe, solid, and secure childhood devoid of my freakishness.

In the end, in essence, she asked that I stop where I am at right now, maintain the status quo, not go any further, and otherwise just shut myself down. She explained that, in her opinion, since I was able to suppress and deny this for two decades, that I should be able to cap it all up and do so again.

Sigh.

I have little idea how long the crucification lasted. Much more was said. All I know is that tears were streaming down my face throughout, I was in shock, I felt very small, insignificant, depressed, and hopeless, and I wanted to end the misery and just kill myself right there on the spot.

Her words really, really cut deep and hurt me much.

Her words also stripped me of hope that any of this has any chance whatsoever of a happy ending.

Her words also reinforced just how much I hate people, community, society, and everything else that has made my lot in life the miserable ****ing hopeless existence that it is.

I mean, I’m a real person just like everyone else, right??!! So why should I be denied the same opportunity for happiness and acceptance that others have and enjoy??

Besides, it’s not like I chose or asked for any of this!!

So just exactly what have I done to deserve this??!! Why should I be punished and otherwise swept aside for something that is not my fault??!!!

And more importantly, why should I have to fall on my own sword and sacrifice myself so that others can feel better about themselves and not have to think about or deal with those such as I??!!! Where is the ****ing justice in THAT, that I cannot be or become the person that I really am??!!!

We all deserve better. I get, though, that deserve ain’t got nothing to do with this.

But WTF??!! What the ABSOLUTE ****??!!!

I guess I should just do everyone a solid and crawl back into my shell, hoist the white flag, and give up. God forbid anyone actually be exposed to me. God forbid others have to actually deal with me. God forbid that others know that I actually exist. And God forbid that I cause anyone even the slightest amount of discomfort because I had the audacity of being born wrong!!!

****ing life. Life just ****ing SUCKS!!!!

[suzy1]

Anne, your thread seems to be full of blame. Blame her, blame yourself, blame life and so on.
In fact there is no one to blame. I feel so sorry for you but I also feel so sorry for your wife and your daughter.
There is a saying “life sucks” and sometimes it really does!

We can and really do support you here Anne but only you can make the hard decisions on what to do next.

You say “what have I done to deserve this” that’s illogical and you know it.

Life kicks us in the teeth sometimes. For what it’s worth, I went through my own living hell a few years ago and never thought I would come out the other side. But I did and so will you.

All the best,

Suzy





"Life is not fair; get used to it"

Bill Gates

[whowhatwhen]

Your own health and wellbeing is more important than what your wife at this point.
I'm going to sound like a complete ****hole here but you need to distance yourself from her before you take any more emotional damage.

From the sound of things it's already over, stop letting her torture you for being who you are.

[arbon]

I went through a lot of those feelings to,
I had my own issues with the family and friends and work
and my daughter
I needed to go in a direction they did not want me to go, it was very hard to see me doing what I was doing
and they were afraid of how it was going to impact their lives

What I learned through it all was that I had to let go of other peoples expectations of me,
I was willing to let go of those relationships, and the job, and everything.
I had to let people deal with the issues they were having about me however they needed to
that was not my deal, it was theirs to work through. Their shit, not mine.

I had to be responsible for my own actions, my own well being, and make the decisions I had to make
I had to be true to myself to get out of feeling trapped.

[Angela Campbell]

You cannot control what others think and do. It is never right to intentionally hurt someone else, but you cannot allow them to hurt you either. It is sad she refuses to even try to come to terms of this but as you said it isn't a choice and you did not sign up for it either. Do what is good for you, you cannot help or protect your children and family if you do not take care of your needs first.

[docrobbysherry]

I've said this before and I'll keep saying it, Anne.

U need professional help! U can't keep running these same depressing and ERRONEOUS themes around in your head. U need a qualified counselor/therapist to run your feelings by. They will be able u to understand what is REALLY happening to u and your relationships. And, point out to u what healthy courses of action r available to u.

U need help and so does your SO. Your SO was simply expressing her conscious fears for u, her, and your daughter. She may need help as much as u do!

Don't say u can't afford a professional. U can't afford to NOT find one! And, soon!

[Leanne2]

Anne,
You have to get away from that caustic situation. Let your wife tell people that you have left her for another woman. Let her blame you, and then separate. Do it while you still have some sanity left. As your daughter gets older she will want to know who the other woman is. When the time is right, tell her. Leanne

[KellyJameson]

It is very important that you discover and know your place on the "spectrum of dysphoria"

In ways related to gender identity as "my mind in alignment with my body" and this "body in alignment with the world I live in" I have always been EXTREMELY dysfunctional since childhood

I have never known a reprieve from my "female identity" because it has always been there even when it was under the surface making itself known.

This identity has nothing to do with "acting like a woman" but is the utter conviction held by my mind that I am and ALWAYS have been a woman. Why my mind and brain has this conviction I have no idea. It comes partly from my brain and partly from my environment but this identity will continue to be with me until I die and there is absolutely nothing I can do to change it because I fought it for years trying to be the opposite of what I am and "build a male identity" by rejecting the one I already had as female.

It is physically fixed and cut into my brain forever. I either fight it or accept it but it is not going away because it is me.

My "contrary gender identity" (brain) to my body and the world I lived in made life brutally difficult but in ways that were mysterious to me until I understood what gender identity means and what my gender identity was because I was living without one through repression so I was living without substance or form going through life a shadow of my true and natural self.

I have noticed for many transsexuals they have atypical sexual relationships with their partners and often with their wives the sex takes on patterns of relating very similar to two woman which is exactly what I tried to do or they think they are homosexual because they want to be with men which paradoxically means they are actually heterosexual which is also something I struggled with. Sexually I became a fence sitter of being both but neither.

For myself the same forces that resulted in my female identity also affected my sexuality and I think from the conversations I have had with other transsexuals this is common.

If you are married and on HRT and sexual with a woman who identifies as heterosexual you are almost guaranteed to have incredible conflict in the relationship.

You are asking a woman to change her sexuality and move from being heterosexual to something else or you live in a sexless marriage which certainly is not uncommon.

Sex is not just about sex it is also about intimacy and connection but how can a wife be intimate and connect if she is not able to bend her sexuality to match the person transitioning.

In a marriage when one transitions so to does the other but in ways that are purely psychological.

To live your gender identity the wife must change her sexual identity and sexual identity is just as strong as gender identity because they are both formed biologically and reinforced socially.

Transitioning is a measurement of suffering and it is this suffering that tells you where you fall on the "spectrum of suffering"

For some it is less painful to lose a marriage than to not transition because always it is our pain doing the talking and we are carried by these currents.

You have to really get in touch with your pain by seeing how your gender identity has been making you suffer from not being able to live it.

Every woman carries elements of masculine identity and every man elements of feminine identity so there is no pure expression of one or the other but when the body and mind stand opposed to each other, separated by a great divide that has always been there and this divide is ever increasing than the person must act to put themselves back together again or they will drown in the insanity of living in a perpetual never ending existential crisis that will keep them locked in mental illness.

You transition to find your sanity again that was lost when you stopped or were prevented from living your identity.

Anyone who transitions for reasons other than identity will destroy themselves and those around them will leave to save themselves from what will be seen as an act of insanity.

They will see it as insane if in the relationship they have never witnessed before the insanity of not living your actual gender identity meaning that they never sensed your "sickness" by experiencing your "pain"

Transsexuality trashes your life to the degree that you fall on the spectrum made up of the dissonance between "body as male" and "mind as female identity" measured in "conflict".

Transsexuality is a never ending experience of "conflict" between the female mind and "everything"

Transitioning is a movement from sickness to health so unless this sickness can be found to have always been there than transitioning is being done for reasons other than identity.

We must understand our pain to understand ourselves.

[mary something]

It is a good thing that this confrontation occurred believe it or not. She has finally opened up and given you her objections. It is fine for her to feel that way, I would even thank her for being brave enough to communicate this to you.

The question is do you agree with her? I can refute each one of her points but now is not the time to prove who is wrong or right.

She says what she believes is true. She is trying to tell you what she is afraid of. Do not react in anger or guilt. Start talking without always having to reach a definite conclusion. The employment issue is important no matter the outcome. I would work on that first and then I think both of you guys will have a lot less stress.

[mikiSJ]

Her words also stripped me of hope that any of this has any chance whatsoever of a happy ending.

Her words also reinforced just how much I hate people, community, society, and everything else that has made my lot in life the miserable ****ing hopeless existence that it is.

You have "I' trouble. Of course it is all about you, but you seem to have ignored an external yet very important part of you - your wife.

I had a similar crisis with my wife but since I am not planning on transitioning (for now) I was able to work out a compromise to let the feminine Miki come alive. It appears to me that you and your wife didn't have that understanding and it also appears your have taken your needs beyond what your marriage can tolerate.

It also appears to me that the hate you talk about is not for those around you, but it is the hate for yourself. You need to really examine what you want out of life; what you will accept because life is not fair. No one owes you respect! No one owes you a good life! No one owes you anything!

You need to mature a bit in your outlook or you are going to crash and burn!

[celeste26]

Communication is such an important thing and so rarely used. How many years did she "seem to be supportive" all the time holding in the real feelings? I'll bet she was holding all that back to "spare your feelings" all the time allowing them to build up to volcano proportions. So where is the honesty in your relationship? Yep it is therapy time and right away not some years from now.

[Barbara Ella]

Anne, I would just remind you to consider that the real trigger for this was not you per se. Your recent unemployment has undoubtedly placed a great strain on your wife. She now has two uncertainties, first your gender identity, and secondly, the now very clouded employment/security for her family. Believe me, the second one can dramatically alter the perception she has about the first. What she may have been able to accept/tolerate, no matter how barely, has just been blown into the major position of being the reason everything is happening as it is unfolding. Thus, what was acceptable/tolerable, is now totally unacceptable/intoloerable.

I don't think things have changed for her except for the sensitivity of different pressure points at this moment in time. Things may settle back, I have no idea how traumatized she has been by this turn of events. I do see that you may be keeping up a front that nothing has changed, maybe in an attempt to protect her from the reality.

Sorry, but you are not her first priority. I will agree that you need to take care of yourself, but there can be times where self gets put on the shelf for a brief time. Run in place, let the HRT work for awhile, and get the personal life back on track to relieve the other pressures. I am aware that this is no easy task. The hand we are dealt automatically puts us at a disadvantage when life takes it's usual crap, as it does on everyone from time to time. Even while running in place, one can slip slide forward a bit.

Don't fold the tent, this does no one a solid of any sort. We cannot be in a shell, we need each other, we need to talk and scream, we need to listen and continue to grow.

I truly hope that a little time will lessen her feelings toward your needs. Remember that it is such a hard thing for a wife to grasp, accept, and integrate into her life.

Barbara

[Princess Grandpa]

Hug
I have no advice to offer. I fear something similar some day. Pls no matter what you decide to do, please remember YOU ARE IMPORTANT!

I am so sorry you have to work through this

Hug

[Aprilrain]

The relationship is doomed and has been for sometime! Both of you have been avoiding the inevitable for the security of the status quo. The question is who will make the first move toward divorce, you or your wife? I think you know this but don't want to accept it.

[Anne2345]

It also appears to me that the hate you talk about is not for those around you, but it is the hate for yourself. You need to really examine what you want out of life; what you will accept because life is not fair. No one owes you respect! No one owes you a good life! No one owes you anything!

You need to mature a bit in your outlook or you are going to crash and burn!

I do not hate myself. I did hate myself. But I have worked hard to progress, evolve, and come to terms with myself. In fact, I am quite proud of the things I have accomplished, and how far I have come the past couple of years. As for whether I need to "mature" in my "outlook," I do not know what you mean by this.


U need professional help! . . . U need a qualified counselor/therapist to run your feelings by.

I have a qualified therapist whom I visit regularly. I have been in counseling the past two years. I have benefited much from the experience, and I would recommend it to anyone, including my wife. My wife, however, steadfastly refuses to see a therapist. She also refuses to visit a marriage counselor. And by refuse, I mean just that. She refuses.


Anne, your thread seems to be full of blame. Blame her, blame yourself, blame life and so on.
In fact there is no one to blame.

I do understand rationally that neither my wife nor I are to blame. Neither of us signed up for this. It just is. We are both victim of circumstance.


Transsexuality is a never ending experience of "conflict" between the female mind and "everything"

This is exactly my fear . . . .


It is a good thing that this confrontation occurred believe it or not.

As much as it hurts, and for better or worse, you correct - it is a good thing it happened.

[Alexis.j]

You know what Anne, nobody here can give you the answers you want but YOU! Every situation is unique and no generic answer would be suitable for you. I am aware of the extreme difficult decisions that must get made and my heart really goes out to you. I with you all the best for whatever you do... xoxo

[Stephanie47]

Usually before trying to make some sort of comment on these heart wrenching threads I go back and try to read other threads. I try to ascertain the age. All I can see here is a combination of frustration on the part of Anne and wife. Anne, the transsexual has been frustrated for a long time. Yes, for a person not to be able to express oneself for a number of reasons can be very frustrating. Most people go through life making compromises on the type of car the family will buy; the Corvette v. the mini van with roof rack. A two story house in town or the cottage on the lake. Some of those choices or decisions in the scheme of thing are really small potatoes.

Life is full of compromises. I know everyone, who has been married, has made them. That's the nature of marriage. Of course, there are many marriages that fail or should fail because one party is dominant and rules the roost.

Sometimes compromises cannot be made and should not be made. If Anne needs to express herself, then she should. However, if Anne's wife feels she cannot compromise or accept at all the life Anne's see for herself, then it is best each fulfill their goals and aspirations separately.

From the bits and pieces I can glean from postings, each adult is young enough to make an adjustment and live on.

[theresa_phillipa]

Anne,

i really do feel your hurt. My Wife has done this to me as well. Often.
Even though my Woman shrink has validated my 'womaness' or whatever it is,
it's the whole family, "I though I married a Man", "You Pervert" thing.
And the daughter.
A character in the book Zorba the Greek asked him about his life situation.
Z replied, "Yes, I have a wife, a family, a mortgage..the whole calamity!"

Trying to be true to ourselves AND be in the midst of disapproving others
is THE challenge of anyone who is "Different."

Or to quote Popeye the Sailor: I yam what I yam!

We are what we are.

theresa

[whowhatwhen]

Anne is a woman and needs to live as such. If her wife isn't going to accept this then it's probably time for the relationship to end.

[ReineD]

Anne, this may be an unrealistic solution, but do you and your wife have enough financial resources for you to take a sabbatical from work, and live somewhere else and be yourself for maybe a year, even if you took a small job to help defray the living costs during that year? Could you take a sabbatical from work and return to your job at the end of the year if you wanted to?

There are very few marriages that could sustain this, I know.

And, it may not resolve anything if at the end of the year, both you and your wife have exactly the same points of view and therefore the same needs that you have now. It's just that right now, the two of you are both imagining way into the future. You are imagining a life living as a woman full time that would certainly be happier than the life you live now. Your wife is imagining a life of having you live as a woman full time, that she considers would be disastrous for your family. But the fact remains that neither one of you can look into the future at this point in time and know with true certainty how it will all play out and how everyone will feel, including your daughter and all the members of your community.

Taking a sabbatical will either reinforce your need to live full time, or you will come to the conclusion that you are no happier living full time. Which ever way it goes, you will be in a better position to make difficult decisions about the future of your marriage, than you are now. Maybe?

[dawnmarrie1961]

I had the same thing happen to me years ago. I lost my soul mate because I either didn't listen,didn't see or just simply didn't want to. I put my children through hell at a time in their lives when they didn't need the extra pressure.
Maybe I was selfish, self absorbed and only thinking of myself.
I should have seen the signs and been more receptive to how my choices were going to impact those around me. Those people that I cared about and loved. But I didn't. And I had to pay the price for that oversight.
It took me quite some time to finally get my children back in my life.
My wife, god bless her for putting up with me for as long as she did, found happiness with someone else. It still pains me because I still love her with all my heart. But I had to let her go. For her sake.
Yeah life sucks! We can't always get everything we might want. Sometimes the price to be paid is too high!
When my wife said to me "When I look in your eyes I don't see you anymore" that's when I knew it was over.

[ReineD]

Oops, Anne strike my comment about the possibility of getting back to your job after a year. I had not read all through the thread when I responded.

But, my question still stands. Do you and your wife have enough financial resources to have you live elsewhere for a year, if you supplement with a part-time job that is not necessarily in your field, and would your wife be willing to do this without running to a divorce attorney?

[LeaP]

My God, some of the responses. Of course Anne's wife feels this way. So does mine. The chances of a spouse reacting any differently are low, low, low. The (open) question is whether this will change with time. She hasn't left yet! That's incredibly significant by itself. She is trying, even if denying. She may still see him but she also still wants him. So I'm not sure of a divorce, April, but there is a good chance of it.

We live with this all our lives. It becomes a crisis, but even then may take a year or two to figure out. THAT is the the typical point at which one's wife becomes aware, as in Anne's case. And it's like stepping into a tornado. If there is love, it demands we give it everything we have to help our wives - especially time to learn, understand, and - hopefully - empathize to find the root of the love intact.

Anne, if you want to keep your marriage, the LAST thing you need is space or to distance yourself from your wife, whether to avoid damage or not. The ONLY chance you have is to take the fury - again and again and again. You can let her know it hurts, but that you aren't going anywhere.

I understand, and its going to be long and painful with no guarantees.

[ReineD]

Leah, I was suggesting it as neutral ground because things are so explosive right now, and few things are well resolved when emotions reach this height. I thought it might provide an opportunity for each Anne and her wife to see what life would be like, living apart. And it might make their way to the future seem clearer, at the end of that year.

I know that the chances of Anne's wife going for this are slim. Both would need to agree that it is a good idea, for it to be effective.

[Robbin_Sinclair]

All I keep thinking about is this eight year old child. And then i can't understand how you could not see this coming. I would cut and paste All I keep thinking about is this eight year old child about ten times, if I thought it would do anybody any good.

Could this be the biggest emotional happening in this child's life? Her mother was cruel to do this but it was done. For your daughter, it could be as important as it would be if being in a school when classmates are murdered by some serial nut.

For me, I would focus on my child and forget entirely about myself as much as possible, for a while. Perhaps, wear women's stuff under my male drab when doing what I have to do. A person's sexuality can't be as important as that person's child.

Even the title is weird. YOU"RE crucified? But, that's only me.

[whowhatwhen]

Gender identity != sexuality

Is she supposed to live as a man until when? The child turns 18?
You're asking someone to live a lie for the sake of a child, and believe me CHILDREN KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

My parents stayed together "for the sake of the children" even though they didn't even like each other, me and my bro could tell.
I don't know about him but it definitely affected me.

Anne, I wish you all the best of luck.

[ReineD]

Robin, I've got to jump in and comment even though this is not my thread.

Children survive all sorts of things: war, homelessness, the death of a parent, debilitating disease, divorce ... and also having parents who cannot see who they are.

We would wish none of these things on any child, but they do happen. Some children are more resilient than others and my guess is, in the case of a divorce and/or a parent who undergoes an unconventional change compared to everyone else's parents, the success of a child's resilience is dependent upon the ability of both parents to create a safe and supportive environment for the child. This means having an agreement between the parents to bury their differences and accept what is, present the same front, and help the child deal with people who will not easily understand, for the benefit of the child's emotional stability and future emotional growth.

I'm not saying this is easy to do, but it is doable especially if the alternative is the mental breakdown of one of the parents.

[Angela Campbell]

I guess if you have not lived with it something like severe GD can be difficult to understand. Maybe impossible. It is not something that you can just "live with" for a while. If it was cancer would you be telling someone to just "live with it" for a while so as not to upset the children?

Even in cases of divorce not effected by something like this it is sometimes better for the children to live with the separation of the parents than to live in an environment of hostility. In my case 20 years ago it was much better for them.

[Anne2345]

Even the title is weird. YOU"RE crucified? But, that's only me.

The title is weird? So f'ing what??!!! Please forgive me that in my moment of despair and pain that I composed this post that I choose a stupid freaking title for it. I mean come on!! Really??!! The stupid title is weird??!! Yeah, maybe it is. But so what??!! Everyone knows what I'm talking about, whether it's a stupid title or not!!! Sigh.


For me, I would focus on my child and forget entirely about myself as much as possible, for a while. Perhaps, wear women's stuff under my male drab when doing what I have to do. A person's sexuality can't be as important as that person's child.

With all due respect, Robbin, did you even read my post??!! What does my sexuality have to do with anything??! I didn't even mention my sexuality. And how would underdressing possibly help me in any way, shape, or form??!! Do you think this is about the clothes??! The clothes haven't a thing to do with this. Rather, it has everything to do with my identity, and who I am. I could care less about underdressing in the first place. I'm certainly not going to start doing it now. But maybe that's only me.

[whowhatwhen]

Are you looking in the wrong forum perhaps?
Why should a transsexual woman live as a man for the benefit of others?

That **** ain't easy and it's extremely emotionally taxing which comes through in her post.
It's not drama, it's just what happens with repressed gender issues.

[stefan37]

Well Anne , at some point this stuff gets real and for you it is now. Your wife is going through as difficult time as you are. Her man is turning into a woman and she does not want to let go. Her dreams and hopes for a future together is crumbling down.
She did not marry a woman and does not want a wife. She wants a husband. You know you cannot be that person for her and she is realizing that you will not be that person for her. There is no blame on either part. You are what you are no matter how long you buried it.

You can rant and rave all you want how life is so unfair and how you were dealt a crappy hand. Your wife is feeling exactly like you are but for different reasons. You need to figure out exactly what you need and then have a very serious discussion and let the chips fall where they will. If you truly feel you need to transition and from your previous posts I would say yes, then you need to tell your wife that your transition is non-negotiable. you will do whatever you can to support her and help her get through this but you will transition. Then stop talking about it. Go about achieving your goals silently. Maybe start to sleep in separate rooms. If she has questions or concerns let her bring them up and answer them truthfully.

I guess what complicates matters is your unemployment status. There is an uncertainty about her future ability to survive and how your daughter will be cared for. It is hard enough to maintain and care for a family without the added expense of transitioning.

And yes life sucks and this condition can suck and it can suck hard. Marriages are more often than not a casualty and in many cases the best outcome is a solid friendship in the end. To even remain friends is a long and arduous task and there will be many setbacks along the way. Don't forget she is losing the man she married and the person she has entrusted her life to. From discussions with my own wife it is a difficult thing to get through. There is tremendous anger and resentment. Sounds like your wife is going through that now.

As to transition being a selfish act it is in many ways. But the thing is nobody can do it for you and there are many that will be an obstacle the entire way. You have to push through, go around or any other means to make your transition a reality and obtain some semblance of inner peace. You have your needs and your wife has her needs. You must walk your path and she will probably not be able to walk along side with you. She has to travel on her own path and with any luck your paths will once again cross, but there is no guarantee.

Your transition and the strength and resolve you can bring to it will determine how successful you. Marital difficulties are but one aspect that must be dealt with, but they are just only one of the many challenges we that must transition face. You will be facing some very difficult and painful moment in the very near future. How you handle and resolve them will ultimately determine your level of happiness. You will be experiencing extreme pain and anguish in the coming months. You need to start viewing your transition as a positive event in your life. Stop dwelling on the negative and let all that negative energy dissipate. Start to relish the positive energy that letting our inner self free can bring you.

Our transitions are only what we make of them. Dwell on the negative or embrace the positive. The power is within you and only you to determine what direction you want to go.

[LeaP]

Well said, Stefan.

[mary something]

especially the job thing Anne. Focus on fixing the job thing. I really think that is what is bringing this to a head right now. Her comments that you're making yourself unemployable are important. I really think you're better off focusing on getting a good job that will see you through transition or whatever you decide to do than anything else right now. If that means doing the man thing for a while so you can regroup and have the resources to focus on transition later then so be it.

If you're going to transition you need to be able to support yourself and also provide support to your family if your wife decides to divorce you.

[Jorja]

I had seen this thread earlier this morning and had planned on responding when I got some time today. Well, that didn't happen until just now. Well said Stefan! I could not have said it any better.

[Kimberly Kael]

I have written in the past about how supportive my wife has been.

There are a lot of potential reasons for a sudden change of heart on her part, but the one thing they have in common is that she's clearly scared. Possibly of losing you, or of losing what you represent, or of losing the privilege that comes with living a relatively mainstream life. You will need to either meaningfully engage her on these subjects, or prepare to let go.

Easy to say, much, much harder to do. The easiest transition in the short term is definitely the scorched earth approach. You run the risk of losing allies and valuable reality checks down this path, but you do gain freedom. I tend to think of it as a last resort approach, but your mileage may vary.


To her, as she angrily and disapprovingly pointed out, I have been transitioning before her very eyes, which is actually true. I have been, and this has been by design. I mean, these things do not happen by accident, right?

Regardless, she said she can’t take it anymore.

My wife described the process as closely mirroring the stages of grief. It sounds like your wife just came out of denial, and went full bore into anger. That's not at all unusual, and I know it's not a lot of fun. It doesn't mean she's not capable of coming around. I wouldn't presume to guess what the future holds for you but you should know that what she's feeling is natural and predictable. She may get over it, and she may not, but she's going to go through it.

The oddest part of the whole process for me was being mourned while still present.


She called me selfish and obsessed. She accused me of being all about me.

It's doubtless true to some extent. Eating is also a selfish act. We all act out of self-interest every day, her included. The hard part for her is understanding that transition is a necessary part of your healthy existence. She also needs to know that you are thinking straight, and you are legitimately concerned about her and your child. That's not easy when she sees so much potential for disruption, but it's incredibly important.


She claimed that I am making myself unemployable.

You're not making your employment situation any easier, that's for certain, but you're not doomed to a life of unemployment either. My first clue that transition might not ruin my life was seeing a trans woman speaking at a technology conference. Her employer put her out there in front of customers and trusted her to be their representative. That was about eight years ago and now I'm in a similar situation, having gotten the job post-transition, with my hiring manager fully aware of my history. It's not as impossible a hurdle as it once was. I'm sure it's much, much harder in some areas and industries than others.


She said I will never be accepted for who I “want” or “think” myself to be.

My father said something very similar to me, and he was dead wrong. I understand the fear, but she may find the reality isn't nearly as scary as she expects — if you find a way to let her deal with it all in a minimally threatening fashion.


And perhaps worst of all, she brought our eight year old daughter into the beat down. She hammered in how unfair it would be to our daughter for me to continue on and transition.

She was half right. Of course your daughter figures into the conversation. Her mother can't help but worry about her. The "fairness" argument is pretty pointless, though. You know very well how unfair life can be, and honestly kids growing up in families where people are miserable for the sake of the kids tend to sense the misery. It's not a good thing, either.

I know this is painful time and I'm glad you have a community to share with. Feel free to PM if you want to bend my ear further, and good luck regardless of how you proceed. I'm wishing for some peace for you along the way.

[Nicole Erin]

The fact that you are there for your daughter in any form is more than a lot of fathers can say. My biological father skipped out when I was too young to remember. He never attempted to contact me or anything.

For the employment thing - It may make it a bit more difficult to find a job but we have a lot of sisters out there working and earning a living (not just the TS hookers but TS who work HONEST jobs) So brush up your resume and you too will be once again earning a solid paycheck. Not sure what kind of work or money you had coming in before but even during or post transition, you can probably be making as good of money.

The wife - Yeah, wives and G/F do have a way of changing from accepting to resentful when they find their husbands are TG. I like to think it is karma paying them back for all the times they stepped on the hearts of "nice guys" in order to date the assholes, err, "bad boys".

Right now it seems the world is ending but you will get thru this. May take some time and work but you will come out stronger.

[ChelseaErtel]

Anne, I think how both you and your wife behave around your daughter will make all the difference. Being angry, depressed, upset around her will distress her to no end. If she thinks that you two will split that will cause distress, it has in my daughter. My daughter (13) knows I'm TS and is mostly concerned with my wife and I splitting. I think two happy households are better than one miserable one. Your wife holds the keys to your daughters well being, at least mostly. She will identify with her and side with her. I was trying to write that GD is selfish, but I just couldn't write the words because I don't feel it is selfish. Being selfish to me is doing something without consideration of anyone else. And GD is identity and having the correct identity is life. Is it selfish to not want to die, to not want to be depressed all of the time and shorten your life?

My heart aches for you as I'm wondering if my wife will come around to the same conclusion. We have not had a normal sexual life - ever. We haven't had intimate relations in more than seven years now so sex, for us at least, is not an issue now. She had come to accept that. I know that the $%&@! will hit the fan when I tell her I need to start HRT in the fall. She says she can't live without me, and love me. I believe her. But actually transitioning may be the game changer and I may be looking for a new residence. I know I can't go on as I am now. She understands I'm a TS and how hard it is to a degree. She knows I'm my true self when working from home and that I go out at times. But I always have to change back. My mother told me yesterday that when she sees me dressed as a man that she sees a woman trapped in a male facade. Going back and forth is hard and depressing at times. The only thing keeping me sane is knowing that I'll beginning my transition this fall.

I don't really have any advice for you, our situations are similar in some ways and in others no so much. I hope that your wife can come to understand you condition and not demonize you to your daughter. If you can part ways amicably letting your daughter know that you both love her and still love each other but to be happy have to split, she will be fine. Love may not be the answer with your wife and you, but it is with your daughter. She is very important and her well being needs to be in the forefront. My wife said the same things to me about the embarrassment etc., and I have promised her that I would not do anything that would cause her distress. If I was to go to a soccer game or an event as school I'd go as Dad. But my wife pointed out if I transitioned everyone would know eventually anyway. Which is true but I believe it would become a non-issue to most.

Good luck, we both need some.

[Leanne2]

Anne, This morning I have reread the posts and thought about your family's situation. This has caused me to change my mind on what you should do. Your wife is afraid because she is loosing her husband and her security. This is a terrifying situation for her. And terror brings out emotion. You have to do whatever it takes to find a job. You must support your family whether you live with them or not. Assure your wife that you will do whatever it takes to support your family. If that means getting a job as a man then do it. First you get a job and then get a better job when you can. Good luck, Leanne

[Kittie]

My heart goes out to you. I've been a singleton for quite a while so I can't really offer up any kind of advice on going through these things while in a long term relationship. In my situation I have the luxury(?) of not having someone so close that could affect me at such a depth. Strange that your wife would let things run their course and then choose to reveal her true feelings at this stage. This is why honesty is key in any relationship. It may be naive of me to say it given that I have no children nor relationship commitments right now, but do what is right for you and **** everyone else.

[LeaP]

For many spouses (likely including Anne's), there are conflicting feelings. The sense of betrayal and loss and selfishness is real, but so is the desire to support and understand. The problem starts with the inability to see past what one already "knows" and proceeds to what one cannot truly comprehend. It's a terrible place for a spouse to be and it boils over.

[dreamer_2.0]

Well said, Stefan.

Agreed. Although...

Several posts in this thread make me either:

a) wish I never had this side of me, or
b) make me petrified to ever officially come out.

All of our situations are unique but this reinforces several fears.

[Jorja]

Dreamer_grl,
When you have that drive, that need within you to become the true you, you will withstand all of the criticism, the ridicule, the humilation, the name calling, being crucified by a loved one, all the crappy things they do to us. You will stand up, weak kneed and unsure of yourself to face your fears only to get slapped down again. You will dig deep within and vow to show them all. You will push forward no matter what.

[dreamer_2.0]

Dreamer_grl,
When you have that drive, that need within you to become the true you, you will withstand all of the criticism, the ridicule, the humilation, the name calling, being crucified by a loved one, all the crappy things they do to us. You will stand up, weak kneed and unsure of yourself to face your fears only to get slapped down again. You will dig deep within and vow to show them all. You will push forward no matter what.

That's a little ways off. Still in suppression/acceptance stage. The strength you speak of sounds very powerful indeed. Very admirable. Perhaps one day I'll understand.

[Anne2345]

when you have that drive . . . . You will push forward no matter what.

There is no white flag in me anymore. It is no longer an option. Should I raise the white flag I would surely die. I have no doubt of this.

Instead, I choose life. I choose moving ahead, as I have been doing, and progressing forward. I will do all I can to make it work.

I hope, hope, hope that it does, and I pray. I love my wife with all of my heart, and she is my best friend.

But I cannot do this as is. It is my sincere hope that she continues to stand by my side, and I her's, as we have done for so long now. I cannot, however, continue to be someone I am not. I just can't. It no longer works. It cannot work. It will not work.

[Persephone]

Anne,

I am so sorry for what you are going through. It is terribly complex for everyone and there are so many "maybes" and "what ifs" that it boggles the mind.

But I pick up on one thing. You appear to be one tough lady and somehow I feel that you will make it through.

Some on here are critical, some argue passionately for one view or another, but I think that virtually all of us care about you and all of us are rooting for you, regardless of the decisions that you may make.

May you grow from strength to strength.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Katelyn B]

Anne,

It's a horrible situation, the only thing I have to add beyond what's already been said is that I just finished reading this

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=if+you+really+loved+me+emma+cantons&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aif+you+really+loved+me+emma+canto ns

Which is written from the perspective of a trans woman's wife in the UK who ultimately stayed with her partner, it might help you understand your wife's perspective a little more.

Katie

x

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I have written in the past about how supportive my wife has been.

And also written about setbacks, it's an up-down cycle, joy to despair and that is not a good sign.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?192960-Depressing-setback-with-my-wife-.-.-.-.&highlight=

Also, so I don't have to say "some" of the same stuff again in regards to communication:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?192960-Depressing-setback-with-my-wife-.-.-.-.&p=3162619&viewfull=1#post3162619


I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, but I learned last night that she had been bottling up a lot of her emotions, thoughts, and feelings for some time.

Yep, I expected she was. You should have expected she was and prevented it. The signs were there.


To her, as she angrily and disapprovingly pointed out, I have been transitioning before her very eyes, which is actually true. I have been, and this has been by design. I mean, these things do not happen by accident, right?

No, they don't happen by accident. We may not be able to control our feelings but we CAN control what actions or inaction we take in or things we say in response to them.


Regardless, she said she can’t take it anymore. She called me selfish and obsessed. She accused me of being all about me. She stated none of this is right. She said that I am not a woman, that I am instead a man. She claimed that I am making myself unemployable. She said I will never be accepted for who I “want” or “think” myself to be. She explained that she is embarrassed by me, and that she can’t have me drag her down in the eyes of others.

Quick question since I'm not exactly sure of the situation. Are you employed right now? Direct answer please, yes or no will do.

If yes, sabbatical/leave/vacation as I suggested before. But right now your best tool and ally is.... Jenny Boylan.

See your wife fears things: loss of income, loss of status, fear of social rejection. She needs to know that those are less likely to happen these days and Jenny Boylan is the best tool for that. You and her need to watch the Boylan's most recent interview (the one with her son and wife). You also need to watch every other interview with Jenny... that should help since Jenny upper middle class/upper class (like yourselves) that should ease your wifes status fears. And watching The Boylan's son talk should help ease her fears about the kids. You also BOTH need to read the new edition of her book, She's Not There. (There's added stuff from Jenny's wife) But she probably won't read the book without seeing the videos first.

You also need to be at what I nickname here, the "Other Place"... and quckly too. There you would find you're not the first attorney to transition. Quite a few attorneys at the "Other Place"


nd perhaps worst of all, she brought our eight year old daughter into the beat down.

Literally or figuratively. If Literally she shouldn't have done that, if figuratively you should have expected she'd do that sooner or later. But as I said, hearing Jenny's son talk about his perspective should help.


She hammered in how unfair it would be to our daughter for me to continue on and transition. She said our daughter should not be placed in the position where school mates and other children will make fun of her and ridicule her because of me. She said our daughter should not be placed in a position where she will be embarrassed and ashamed that I am her parent.

She needs to know in no uncertain terms, that you can do all that and still transition.


In the end, in essence, she asked that I stop where I am at right now, maintain the status quo, not go any further, and otherwise just shut myself down. She explained that, in her opinion, since I was able to suppress and deny this for two decades, that I should be able to cap it all up and do so again.

That is unacceptable. you need to tell her how miserable you were in the pona-time. Course technically you're still in the pona-time, but doesn't really matter. Now that doesn't mean you can't slow down a bit to give her a chance to catch her breath. She's probably feeling overwhelmed. So time for communication and reflection might be a good idea.


I guess I should just do everyone a solid and crawl back into my shell, hoist the white flag, and give up. God forbid anyone actually be exposed to me. God forbid others have to actually deal with me. God forbid that others know that I actually exist. And God forbid that I cause anyone even the slightest amount of discomfort because I had the audacity of being born wrong!!!

****ing life. Life just ****ing SUCKS!!!!

Enough of that, you need to break the back and forth cycle with "action".


What does my sexuality have to do with anything??!

Well technically you are a lesbian and your wife isn't...that's important.

Ah I think of the "Other Place" and behold, a familiar face shows up. Huzzah!


There are a lot of potential reasons for a sudden change of heart on her part, but the one thing they have in common is that she's clearly scared.

Just not even going to quote all the good things KK said.


It's not as impossible a hurdle as it once was. I'm sure it's much, much harder in some areas and industries than others.

As I said, Anne won't be the first attorney to transition...which is one of the reasons I want her "Over There"


I know this is painful time and I'm glad you have a community to share with. Feel free to PM if you want to bend my ear further, and good luck regardless of how you proceed. I'm wishing for some peace for you along the way.

Me too.

Veronica

[LeaP]

You should have expected she was and prevented it.

I have to say this phrase had me laughing out loud. Expected, yes - absolutely. Prevented? LOL!

Re: Jenny Boylan ... While I am a great admirer of Jenny Boylan's, I don't think her example is relevant as regards employment in several regards. She is an academic. At the time of her transition, she was already a professor at a large, liberal, northeastern university. I believe (but would have to check) that she was already tenured as well. The state of Maine has gender identity protections and I would bet, without checking, that Colby College does as well.

Without going into the private details of Anne's life, I can say that she has some cause for concern as regards employment. You are right, of course, that she is not the first attorney to transition. Were she already in private practice, this might be more manageable. It seems to me that keeping clients and building on an existing practice might be easier than getting new clients in her area.

[stefan37]

I would like to say as to the recent Boylan interview. My wife and I watched it and had a discussion afterward. My wife's response was she saw a sadness in Helen's eyes and she got depressed as she realized that Helen's life could be her future.

[Kimberly Kael]

While I am a great admirer of Jenny Boylan's, I don't think her example is relevant as regards employment in several regards.

Nobody's experience will ever translate directly to another individual, but there is value in having positive examples. As I mentioned above, it was seeing a successful trans woman that gave me the courage to even contemplate the possibility. My father was rather blunt in his assessment that I'd never be taken seriously as a woman, and that I'd never be able to land another job. As if I needed any more doubts! As a result, leaving the company I transitioned at three years after the fact was a nerve wracking prospect. It ultimately became an incredibly positive experience, as I wound up with multiple exciting offers and chose to work for a company I've admired since childhood.


Without going into the private details of Anne's life, I can say that she has some cause for concern as regards employment.

That's unfortunate for all kinds of reasons. It's definitely worth considering how to improve her odds. It may be worth contacting LGBT professional groups to talk to others in the same line of work about their experiences. It is going to be harder than it would be otherwise, but it's not impossible, and if you have more energy and enthusiasm as a result of putting gender dysphasia behind you? It can be well worth it. Having a supportive partner would also be a huge asset, of course. It's always easier to take on the world as a team.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Anne, none of us can live your life for you and thus none of us really are qualified to tell you how to handle this. Just know that you have the support and backing of a lot of people who hope you find what you strive to be.

[Sara Jessica]

Are you looking in the wrong forum perhaps?
Why should a transsexual woman live as a man for the benefit of others?

Which pretty much renders my advice useless because we all know that the only valid path for a transsexual is transition, but I'll take a stab at it anyways.


I hope, hope, hope that it does, and I pray. I love my wife with all of my heart, and she is my best friend.


I'm gonna rip the band-aid off and say something that should be far from a news flash to you.

Chances are better than not that your wife will not stand by your side through a full-on transition. Her reaction of late may very well be the beginning of the end, or at the very least a clear warning shot over the bow.

Are you prepared for such an outcome, one which might be described as a likely outcome? Your comment above leads me to conclude you are not.

The million dollar question is whether there is a middle ground you can find as your path. One which allows you to express the femininity that is at the core of your being while still giving you the opportunity to remain a partner with your love, your best friend. Not to mention your daughter and the absolute joy that you can experience in the years to come by being there as she grows up.

Of course if your bell has gone off to the point where entertaining such a notion is impossible, then I truly wish you the best and implore you to start dealing with an outcome that can be reasonably anticipated. Expect the worst, hope for the best.

But don't anchor yourself to such hope.


You also need to be at what I nickname here, the "Other Place"... and quckly too. There you would find you're not the first attorney to transition. Quite a few attorneys at the "Other Place"

Excellent advice. One of my best friends is an attorney who participates "over there".

[Amy A]

The million dollar question is whether there is a middle ground you can find as your path.

This really is the truth as far as I can see. I came to that question over the last 6 months, and the simple answer was that I couldn't survive any more as a man; my life depended on me correcting my GD. I had to be honest with my girlfriend of 10 years, as I felt that she deserved the truth and the ability to make an informed decision about her future. As much as she loves me, she just isn't gay, and didn't want to spend the rest of her life with a woman. I fully respect that, and I'm grateful that she still considers me to be her soulmate and best friend and that she'll be there to support me every step of the way. Don't get me wrong, I'm heartbroken that we can't be together anymore, but I love her enough to recognise that I can't provide what she needs from a relationship anymore, and I desperately want her to be happy.

I don't agree with some of the things that your wife said but just as you asked for your emotions to be taken into account when reading your thread title, you must surely see that the most extreme statements that she made came from a place of anger and fear. You owe it to yourself and her to make a clear decision and be honest with her so that she can decide what part she wishes to play in your future. You have to respect that decision, she's given many of her best years to you and just as you are putting your own happiness first, she must also do what's best for her.

Obviously there are complicating factors that I don't have the life experience to offer any advice on such as your relationship with your daughter, and I suppose these are the factors that you have to take into consideration when making your decisions. But I am of the view that you have to do what will make you happy in the long run. I would rather love my ex-girlfriend from afar than resent her for denying me the chance to live as me through no fault of her own.

It's a really difficult road, and I think it does involve a lot of self reflection that can be uncomfortable, but you have my every sympathy and support. It really is impossible to describe to a 'non sufferer' exactly how far reaching and devastating the effects of GD can be, and I know from personal experience that there's a point at which there is no choice in the matter.

I wish you luck and sincerely hope you find happiness.

[Lynnmorgan451]

Oh Anne....I feel you sister. What's happening to you now describes how I've been living for the past year. The crucifixion is almost every day for me. Just I guess it's not all at once because I'd be crying, too. I haven't been on here in a little while cuz I tried to keep some distance from " these thoughts" and have really tried to embrace more of my man self. It's just reassuring me that that person truly never existed in a legitimate capacity. I feel fake. Like an actress playing the role of a man in a comic tragedy, only I'm not laughing. I feel you and know I'm right there with you.

LIFE DOES SUCK
And today is my birthday :-/

[TGMarla]

Hi Anne. I'm sorry you're having to go through all this. We all fall into a lot that the vast majority of people never have to experience. And your wife is now asking the "why me?" questions. I mean, what are the odds? So few people in the general population ever change genders. Of all the men she could have fallen in love with and married, how could she have chosen a transsexual woman?

Unfortunately, all of this is very predictable and not much of a surprise at all. It's pretty easy to understand why she feels the way she does. I'm just sorry you're having to deal with it. I have nothing I can offer you other than support. I read the words you attribute to her, and it's not hard to understand why she'd feel exactly that way. She cannot possibly understand how you feel about it all, either. But she does know that you've dealt with depression for many many years. She must know on some level that at the very foundation of this depression was your gender dysphoria. It's a shame that there are no easy paths, no simple answers.

You have my support, my understanding, and my sympathies. You have my friendship. I wish there was more I could give. I wish you the best.

[Allsteamedup]

What worried me most about your original posting was the omission of two themes

responsibility

choice.

Your wife's fears are well grounded and could have been avoided if you had included her in your transition from the beginning. TSroadmap is an oft used site to plan a timescale involving families in the decisions to be made, their order and their timing. This gives the spouse the opportunity to give full warning at which point they will depart. Responsibility and choice.

One of the better sites for families is depend.org. It offers the spouse a template for organising her thoughts as to who she is, what she requires from a relationship, and exactly what would be missing from any relationship with a transitioned spouse. Families talk regularly on their, so a variety of outcomes is experienced, importantly, over a period of time; often the timescale proves the crucial factor.

From your posting I assume that you would prefer your family to stay together, but you seem unwilling to consider the reasons why it may not. Your wife and daughter are entitled to a choice as to how they live. If your wife does not want to be homosexual/lesbian you must accept that. You are entitled to a civil partnership post-transition but this will not look anything like the marriage you have now. If your wife had expectations of a certain lifestyle (both economic and social) to which she contributed many years of her life, she may be unwilling to give that up. Her choice again.

If you had gone through the medical/ gender therapy route instead of two years of stealth transition, your wife would be two years closer to accepting your outcome. You have purposely stripped her of these outcomes and now you must take resposibility for the situation you are in.

There is so much help out there. Another really good site for supportive transitioning and outcomes is TSDoItYourSeltHormones. There are so many helpful, kind people on there.

Many of the women on depend have stayed but the costs are high, mostly in lifestyle, and a much-reduced expectation of what you can do as two women. If you are not involved with a homosexual lifestyle now, this might come as an almighty shock; I speak as someone with a homosexual father.

If you want to transition Anne, you will find that womens' expectations of how to live, contribute to a community and be part of anyone's family are far higher than anything you have yet anticipated.
My advice would be to grow a pair, metaphorically of course...

[LeaP]

As an FYI, Anne HAS gone the gender therapy / physician route for several years. Her wife has been aware of that. The OP is as much about reality arriving with the threads of unexpressed hoped unravelling as much as the themes you raise.

[Rianna Humble]

Allsteamedup, do you actually have any facts to back up you assertion that for the last two years where Anne has been seeing a reputable gender therapist with the full knowledge of her wife, she has in your opinion been going through stealth transition and hiding it from her wife?

If not, I think that you owe her a public apology.

[STACY B]

I would close this thread ,, You know she is already on the edge ,, She don't need a push ?

[ReineD]

Stacy and Rianna, since AllSteamedUp (ASU) is not here right now (she can speak for herself later), I don't think that she meant to be insulting or damaging in any way. She did get one fact wrong and this is that Anne has indeed been seeing a therapist and taking hormones with her wife's knowledge.

But, by "stealth transition", I think ASU meant that neither Anne nor wife have the same understanding of transition. Anne's goal is to transition to living full time as a female, and wife doesn't even believe that Anne is a woman. Further, I think I remember reading in an older thread that wife viewed the hormones as some sort of anti-depressant that would return Anne to her old self?

Several things can happen to cause two such opposing views of Anne's gender: the wife's denial is a big one and also perhaps Anne not having explained precisely and forcefully what her gender status and transition mean, even though Anne's wife did have one session with Anne's therapist, where Anne was hoping that wife might have gained a more thorough understanding than she currently has.

I do believe that ASU is referring to Anne's current situation which is that wife has no real clue even though she hears the words, as is evidenced by the wife's reaction described at the beginning of this thread.

I like the site that ASU has suggested to help the family deal with Anne's transition:

http://depend.org.uk/frameset.html

[LeaP]

I'm coming to dislike the term "denial." It implies a willfulness and motive that I don't think is always present. I prefer to think in terms of process, education, and habituation. In other words, change this hard takes time. Understanding isn't enough.

[Anne2345]

If you had gone through the medical/ gender therapy route instead of two years of stealth transition, your wife would be two years closer to accepting your outcome. You have purposely stripped her of these outcomes and now you must take resposibility for the situation you are in.

I have neither intentionally nor "purposely stripped" my wife of anything that I have not discussed with or divulged to her.


From your posting I assume that you would prefer your family to stay together, but you seem unwilling to consider the reasons why it may not.

What??!! I am fully aware of the reasons it may not work out. In fact, I recognize the odds are vastly against it. I have considered this from many, many angles. Obsession tends to lend itself to such consideration . . . .


If you had gone through the medical/ gender therapy route instead of two years of stealth transition, your wife would be two years closer to accepting your outcome.

Clearly, you have no idea to that which you write. So why write about it at all??!! Stealth transition??! Yet another assumption you have made. And an incorrect one at that.


If you want to transition Anne, you will find that womens' expectations of how to live, contribute to a community and be part of anyone's family are far higher than anything you have yet anticipated.

Higher than anything I have yet anticipated??! How the hell do you know what I have anticipated or not??! How can you possibly make such an assertion from where you sit on your side of the computer screen? Until tonight, I did not even know you existed. So how could you possibly know what I anticipate versus that which I have no clue?


My advice would be to grow a pair, metaphorically of course...

Grow a pair, huh? Is it your intent to offend and insult me, given you apparently have no idea what you are writing about??! I mean come ON!!! If you got it all figured out, and understand the deal so well, just put it out there. You would save MANY of us MUCH trouble through our respective battles. Seriously. Please, enlighten us all.

[morgan51]

Anne, I can only tell you to keep your spirit up and do what you have to do nobody can understasnd that hasn't been there. This path is full of pain and hard decisions my heart goes out to you both. Ultimatly there is but one you and you must be true to yourself. Be kind and caring in all you do and it will be benificial for all involved in the long run. There is no right answer anyone can give you. It has to be lived one day at a time. Your heart knows what to do! Be true to yourself. Hugs. M.

[Amanda22]

Anne, you scare me when I read your posts, I have to admit. You seem to sink to such depths of despair and you're such a great communicator that I really feel your pain as I read. I'm so sorry your wife did this to you. I'm not on the path to transitioning, but I remember the feeling when I came out to my wife about crossdressing, I knew I might lose her right then. Luckily, she was eventually fine with it. My probably naive view of transitioning is that our choice is to either deny ourselves and live some manner of lie, or risk everything to be true to ourselves. I don't like the word "cursed," but maybe the word "damned" is better. We've been dealt a really lousy hand in life, not belonging anywhere, always in limbo. I don't think someone such as your wife can begin to understand what it feels like to live this life. If someone I loved and knew "the real me" called me a man and said I'd never be a woman, I'd be extremely hurt. That might be the most hurtful thing I could hear.

[whowhatwhen]

Which pretty much renders my advice useless because we all know that the only valid path for a transsexual is transition, but I'll take a stab at it anyways.

In all fairness that post was directed to someone looking at Anne in more of a CD light, like it can be turned off and ignored to benefit her wife.
A bunch of literal transphobic posts were deleted from this thread, I guess my response was left in.

[Sandieland]

I am so unqualified to comment on the details of your situation. However, maybe some general comments taken from my own life might help. My last marriage ended when our son was 6 years old. It was horrible. I blamed myself for everything. I had been miserable for years as I was living a life I had talked myself into to live up to how my wife thought a man should live...giving up a career and lifestyle that had made me happy for many decades. I had convinced myself that I had to live as my wife wanted if we were to be happy. However, as time went on I became more and more depressed and bitter as it became clear that this would never work. I loved my child, but the home situation was making me hate both my life and my wife. We finally split and, yes, it was a mess. But I learned some important things...

1. You cannot control what others feel or think or desire. That is their decision and no matter how much you might want them to think or feel otherwise, you cannot make them be something they are not.
2. You must be a happy and whole person yourself before you can even think of making others happy. You cannot expect others to heal you - that is something you must do yourself (not to say you cannot reach out for help as needed). Presenting a happy, well adjusted and confident personae to those around you can heal a lot of wounds.
3. Change is not only hard, but brutal at times. For yourself and everyone around you.
4. Make a plan... step beyond the pain of the moment and look to the future. In the case of my son I constantly reminded him as to how much I loved him, no matter what. That none of what was happening changed how I felt about him and that none of this meant I was leaving him...either emotionally or physically.
5. Be honest with those you love...even if your honesty is not what they want to hear. Then be ready to accept the results of that honesty.

My breakup was not about gender identity, but still about my identity...what defined me as a person at the time. So, I feel I know what you're going through.

[LeaP]

..If someone I loved and knew "the real me" called me a man and said I'd never be a woman, I'd be extremely hurt. That might be the most hurtful thing I could hear.

And I bet that 99% of married transsexuals have heard just that from their spouses. I have, many times and in many different ways.

[GroovyChristy]

My heart goes out to you, Anne. You should not have to live as something you are not. You have our support as you go forward. Perhaps you should seek counselling. The only thing I would say is to never give up on yourself. You deserve to be happy.

[kellypm]

hi anne

as the wife of a transitioning transexual i can tell you that no matter how brave a face we put on everyday and how hard we try to be accepting because we love our partners, sometimes just sometimes we need to vent sometimes in can be because of something very small thats happened sometimes something very big, ill admit to im afraid not knowing the ins and outs of your personal situation, but the word "choice" is a really tricky one for us to deal with as weknow its not a choice really and that its the way you have probably always been but unfortunately it doesnt mean the same for us as it does you to us its a choice you have made to make this change to not just yours but everyone who loves you lives, i have small children too so i understand your wifes fears on how this will affect your children i think any good parent will be the same,
i hope since you posted this things have calmed down and you annd your wife have managed to talk honesty and talking is i feel the only way a "relationship" can withstand these life changing events

kelly

[Sara Jessica]

...as the wife of a transitioning transexual

Key sentence to open a lovely post Kelly.

My thought in this whole thing is that if Anne cannot realistically envision the day when her wife can say those very same words, then the timeline of the transition goal must be laid out...transition for both of them.

Anne, just as you have hopes & fears in taking your brave steps forward into transition, your wife has the same feelings and as has been said before, the chances are better than not that her transition will be one of single parenthood and loss of her life partner & family structure as she knows it now.

We can make important body modifications in an effort to ease into the process of transition (such as permanent removal of face fur) but once the HRT really kicks in, you'll be hiding breasts in guy mode (and that doesn't even speak to how HRT is affecting intimacy). Seems that the process is set into motion and accelerated, for better or for worse.

Many TS women I know personally seem to be meticulous planners, that at the very least their vision for the future is laid out before them. I see a similar element of planning in the thoughts shared in these pages by the transitioning women. What is your vision? What is your timeline?

[linda allen]

..............I'm gonna rip the band-aid off and say something that should be far from a news flash to you.

Chances are better than not that your wife will not stand by your side through a full-on transition. Her reaction of late may very well be the beginning of the end, or at the very least a clear warning shot over the bow.

Are you prepared for such an outcome, one which might be described as a likely outcome? Your comment above leads me to conclude you are not.

The million dollar question is whether there is a middle ground you can find as your path. One which allows you to express the femininity that is at the core of your being while still giving you the opportunity to remain a partner with your love, your best friend. Not to mention your daughter and the absolute joy that you can experience in the years to come by being there as she grows up.........

I think that just about sums it up. Your wife may accept crossdressing, but not transitioning into a female. For one thing, she married a man and expects you to remain one, not turn her into a lesbian, and probaly more importantly, she is protecting her child from the confusion and embarassment of having her daddy turn into an extra "mommy".

Bottom line is, you have two choices; remain the man and daddy in the family and give up your thoughts of becoming a woman, or leave them behind and follow your dream.

I can't speak for you, but my choice would be to remain the man and daddy.

[Sara Jessica]

I think that just about sums it up. Your wife may accept crossdressing, but not transitioning into a female. For one thing, she married a man and expects you to remain one, not turn her into a lesbian, and probaly more importantly, she is protecting her child from the confusion and embarassment of having her daddy turn into an extra "mommy".

Bottom line is, you have two choices; remain the man and daddy in the family and give up your thoughts of becoming a woman, or leave them behind and follow your dream.

I can't speak for you, but my choice would be to remain the man and daddy.

Talk about rubbing salt in the wound after the band-aid is ripped off ;).

Seriously, your words (indeed, our words) paint an utterly realistic picture. In all fairness though, Anne may not be able to choose any other path rather than transition. As much as I might put out there that transition is not the only option, that is a highly personal decision, one which doesn't come with it's own set of issues.

I get your choice, I totally get where you're coming from. I know my choice and while these things are relevant for Anne to know "there is another angle out there", all we can do is support her on the path that she is traveling upon as best we can. Our support though does come with a heavy dose of reality, something that I hope and pray that Anne takes to heart without resenting either of us for saying so.

[Kimberly Kael]

Bottom line is, you have two choices; remain the man and daddy in the family and give up your thoughts of becoming a woman, or leave them behind and follow your dream.

I can't speak for you, but my choice would be to remain the man and daddy.

Anne has made it perfectly clear what path she's headed down, and that for her this isn't exactly a choice. So why paint her path in such a negative light? Leaving your family behind and following your dream sounds horrifically irresponsible, but the reality is that Anne made it clear she'd like nothing better than to make the family work. The "dream" can be more than a little nightmarish in reality, so only the truly needy or the severely clueless see it through.

I think most transitioners make a legitimate attempt to hold their family together while facing a tremendous personal challenge. Some have a combination of good communication, empathy, and genuine commitment on both sides of the relationship working in their favor — but it's still hard to predict the outcome. Tragedies happen every day despite the best intentions of everyone involved.

[DebbieL]

I have written in the past about how supportive my wife has been.


I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, but I learned last night that she had been bottling up a lot of her emotions, thoughts, and feelings for some time.

I've been through similar. I told my first wife 2 weeks after we moved in together. I was ready to do whatever she wanted to make it right, including move out or just be room-mates until she could find another room-mate. Instead, she seemed to be very accepting, and we were both very loving toward each other. Because she said she was OK with it, I decided that she would make a good wife and proposed.

I didn't find out until 12 years later that she had lied the day I first told her. She had NEVER been able to accept the "dressing". She loved me, and even loved that I was NOT macho. She loved how I treated her, how I respected her, even how we made love. She really wanted to be married to me for life, but she literally could not deal with the wardrobe. It wasn't even that I was feminine, she loved that. It was just that she did not want to be a lesbian.


Anyways, last night, she just completely, totally, and devastatingly reamed my ass good. She really let me have it. In so doing, she made me feel small, broken, freakish, selfish, and ashamed.

Mine was more brutal. She would quietly and publicly humiliate me, emotionally castrating me, even in front of my own family. She would even act friendly and affectionate, then when I showed any interest, she would say "I hope you don't think we will be having sex", and walk into the bedroom and close the door behind her. She told my friends and family that she limited me to sex twice a year "so he will remember what he is NOT getting". This continued for 9 years. By the time we went to a marriage counselor, we hadn't had ANY form of intimate sexual contact in over 18 months (closer to 2 years).

When the counselor suggested a platonic marriage or an open marriage she told me "If you have an affair, I will take you for everything you have", and a week later, met her new lover - in the lockup ward of the local psychiatric hospital. Maybe she wanted to be sure she could manipulate him the way she did me. He was 10 years younger and had hair everywhere.

I think the most painful moment was when she started stealing my sexiest clothes, and wearing them to go "bowling" with her boyfriend. I knew she was having an affair, and she enjoyed rubbing my face in it. When she took my favorite skirt, my back-seam hose, and my satin blouse, and made it obvious that she was wearing the corset I bought for her years earlier underneath, I told her to find another skirt. I think I even gave her one.

All this time, she made it clear that even though she had a lover, she would make me suffer if I tried to do ANYTHING about finding another lover.

Eventually, she told me that she wanted to get married. I was worried that she would abuse him too, so I told her she had to wait a year, if they still wanted to get married, I'd be her maid of honor, or give away the bride.

The final straw was when she maxed out an empty credit card to buy furniture and a top-of-the-line stereo for her boyfriend. I told her to give me the card and the ATM card. She opened a separate account and I started writing her support checks (even though we were still living together). About 2 weeks later, she moved out and in with him.


To her, as she angrily and disapprovingly pointed out, I have been transitioning before her very eyes, which is actually true. I have been, and this has been by design. I mean, these things do not happen by accident, right?

Yes, you are finally discovering and becoming yourself, someone you have been forced to suppress and hide for years, even decades. You were bullied, beaten, teased, and humiliated into pretending to be a boy, even when you were no good at it, and you are finally giving yourself the chance to give that person you have hidden all these years a chance to live. It's been like you were a Jew hiding in Nazi Europe, knowing that you could be killed or worse if anyone knew what you were. Transition is like the allies coming to liberate the down, setting you free after all those years.


Regardless, she said she can’t take it anymore. She called me selfish and obsessed. She accused me of being all about me. She stated none of this is right. She said that I am not a woman, that I am instead a man. She claimed that I am making myself unemployable. She said I will never be accepted for who I “want” or “think” myself to be. She explained that she is embarrassed by me, and that she can’t have me drag her down in the eyes of others.

Of course it's about you. Prior to starting transition, your entire life was about maintaining a facade required of you by other people. You dressed the way THEY wanted, wore your hair the way THEY wanted, talked the way THEY wanted, even participated in activities THEY wanted you to do. Nearly everything in your life was about being able to maintain your cover, like an undercover cop, a spy, or a Jew in Nazi Germany.

For the first time in her life, she is experiencing the pain, intimidation, humiliation, and suffering you have had to live with for your ENTIRE LIFE! However, it's not something she signed up for either. When she married you, she assumed that you two would live a normal and happy life where everyone would except the facade you presented. Unless she met you while you were all decked out, or frequently observed how feminine you were, then she probably signed up for a more traditional marriage and relationship.


And perhaps worst of all, she brought our eight year old daughter into the beat down. She hammered in how unfair it would be to our daughter for me to continue on and transition. She said our daughter should not be placed in the position where school mates and other children will make fun of her and ridicule her because of me. She said our daughter should not be placed in a position where she will be embarrassed and ashamed that I am her parent. She said that I owe it to our daughter to provide her with a safe, solid, and secure childhood devoid of my freakishness.

My wife (ex-wife) by then tried to do the same thing. Even though I didn't dress in front of the kids, she was able to work with members of her church (Nazarene) who helped them find a fundamentalist christian social worker, helped her get a job in the court, and helped her find a sympathetic judge. She showed me the letter, addressed to that judge, with the social worker stating that because of my gender issues, my visitation was disruptive to the family, especially the children's relationship with their new step-father, and recommended that ALL visitation be terminated permanently, or at least that all visitation be supervised. I had just started hormones and had been doing RLE, living in Denver, 60 miles north, but she wanted total control of the children. To make matters worse, I found out that he was using a belt to beat both of the children.

Of course, she FULL child support, plus day care costs (paid to her new husband), and extra money for special expenses such as taking the kids to Disney World. The total was MORE than half my take-home pay. Furthermore, since she was collecting worker's comp, and he was on permanent disability, their total household income was actually MORE than my entire after-tax pay.

To avoid problems, I took a consulting engagement in New York, where transsexuals had some legal rights. I planned to be there 6 months and then go back to Colorado. While I was away, she told me she wanted me to send pictures of Debbie because Nick (my son) didn't care that I was a cross-dresser. I told him over the phone that it was true, that I was a girl trapped in a boy's body. He understood and accepted almost immediately. Since Leslie said that's why she left me to marry Jerry (her new husband), Nick thought my ex was just stupid. Nick hated Jerry, and acted out frequently. Eventually, my ex told me she was going to put Nick in a foster home. She wanted to put him with Jerry's sister. I reminded her that under the terms of our divorce, if she could not care for BOTH children, then BOTH children would automatically and irrevocably be in my primary and physical custody. I put that in because I didn't want her to die and then he and his family refuse to ever let me see the kids. Because she had sent me a letter, telling me what she planned to do, I could have taken custody right then and there. I realized that Nick was trying to be loyal to me, so I told him "Since I can't be there, I want you to sit in Jerry's lap, give him a hug like you would give me, and tell him everything you would tell me". After that, I told Jerry what I had told Nick, and that if he DIDN'T sit there and listen, that I would take BOTH Nick and Amanda. Within 30 days, Nick and Jerry bonded and became close friends, but both of the children loved me too. Later, both of them wanted to meet Debbie, and after spending a few hours together, wanted their friends to meet me too.

Kids understand far more than we give them credit for, but we also have to realize that they will NEVER be ready for a broken family, a transgender father, or not being able to live with both parents. They will blame themselves, no matter WHAT we do.


In the end, in essence, she asked that I stop where I am at right now, maintain the status quo, not go any further, and otherwise just shut myself down. She explained that, in her opinion, since I was able to suppress and deny this for two decades, that I should be able to cap it all up and do so again.


Sigh.

I have little idea how long the crucification lasted. Much more was said. All I know is that tears were streaming down my face throughout, I was in shock, I felt very small, insignificant, depressed, and hopeless, and I wanted to end the misery and just kill myself right there on the spot.

Bottom line, she told you to just go and DIE! You had her permission to keep sucking air, but you no longer had the right to live.


Her words really, really cut deep and hurt me much.

Self preservation. Instinctively, you went to thoughts of suicide, or other self-destructive acts. You would be insane if you were NOT hurt if someone you loved handed you a cup of deadly poison and told you that they wanted you to drink it immediately.


Her words also stripped me of hope that any of this has any chance whatsoever of a happy ending.

Yes, like being sentenced to life in prison, with no chance of parole or escape. Furthermore, life in solitary confinement, with your only "exercise" being the option of being cuffed to the door of your cell and letting other beat the crap out of you.


Her words also reinforced just how much I hate people, community, society, and everything else that has made my lot in life the miserable ****ing hopeless existence that it is.

You don't hate people, or you wouldn't have a wife and children. If you truly hated people, community, and society, you'd be sleeping under the bridge, or in a sewer or cave somewhere. If you truly hated people, you wouldn't be struggling so hard to become Anne, so that you could relate to other people authentically as who you really are.


I mean, I’m a real person just like everyone else, right??!! So why should I be denied the same opportunity for happiness and acceptance that others have and enjoy??

You are NOT like everyone else. You were born with a birth defect. I was born with Asthma, other kids are born with Diabetes, other kids have mental and learning disabilities. But we happen to have a birth defect that gave us a female brain, female fingers. We just happened to come out with a teeny weeny peeny and the doctor said "Boy".

In my case, I ONLY had the peeny. I didn't even have testicles! There's even a jagged scare that indicates that they had to stitch things together when I was a baby.


Besides, it’s not like I chose or asked for any of this!!

You didn't choose to be transsexual, that was genetic, hormones, circumstances beyond anyone's control.

You were FORCED to pretend you were a boy. You could have resisted, but you would have experienced pain and suffering. In my own case, I was severely beaten with rocks the size of tennis balls, sticks the size of baseball bats, and frequently tripped and turned into a "soccer ball" as the boys crowded around me, kicking me everywhere, even in the n*ts I didn't have.


So just exactly what have I done to deserve this??!! Why should I be punished and otherwise swept aside for something that is not my fault??!!!

You dared to stand up to the status quo. Like the white man marching in support of black voters, the black man who went to the marches, or the guy who went to Selma Alabama to show that black men were not garbage (a black garbage worker was not allowed to stay indoors and had to find shelter in the back of the garbage truck. When he tried to get out, a broom fell and triggered the compactor, killing him and packing him in with the rest of the garbage.

The man who went to Selma was Dr Martin Luther King Jr, and he knew he was going to be killed when he went. He may have even gone out to the balcony so that the killer could get a clear shot without hurting or killing innocent bystanders.

What you have done takes courage. You may eventually cave into the pressure. I did. I was 33 years old when I first started to transition. I'm 57 years old today. Everything I tried to keep by giving up transition, I lost. Everything I hoped to get, I didn't get. In fact, most of my most significant accomplishments in life, and there are many, have been accomplished when I was transitioning or living as much of my life as a woman as I could.

Which would you rather hire? A clown who quotes factoids all the time, irritates people and acts like a "know it all" and an intellectual bully, and has little regard for human feelings? Or someone who is authentic, compassionate, supportive, collaborates well, creates and leads teams, achieves outstanding results consistently, and creates and fulfills huge possibilities for every life he touches?

What if the clown was also a drunk, a drug addict, obese, and totally unpredictable, and the authentic person was committed to being clean and sober, healthy, and totally responsible.


And more importantly, why should I have to fall on my own sword and sacrifice myself so that others can feel better about themselves and not have to think about or deal with those such as I??!!! Where is the ****ing justice in THAT, that I cannot be or become the person that I really am??!!!

Freedom has a price. You have much in common with an African American in Jim Crow south, a Jew in Nazi Germany, or a woman in Afghanistan. Today, those people have far more freedom and power than they had 70 years ago, but there were many people who made many sacrifices. Consider the possibility that you have been given the opportunity to have the extraordinary perspective of both someone who could easily take their status for granted, and someone who was persecuted for something that is such a fundamental part of who you are that you have no choice about it.


We all deserve better. I get, though, that deserve ain’t got nothing to do with this.
But WTF??!! What the ABSOLUTE ****??!!!

Anything is possible, but to get what we really want, we have to take committed actions consistent with that. We have to communicate, to enroll others, to be willing to accept no from those who decline our requests, and to honor yes, by doing what we promise. Debbie couldn't make everyone she knows like her, but Rex couldn't do that either. On the other hand, there are MANY people who are drawn to Debbie, who seek her out, who love her, and want to be part of her life! Those who know and like Debbie can see how painful and dishonest it is for me to be Rex. But they can also see that there are many who can ONLY accept Rex and would not accept Debbie if they knew she was not born a woman.


I guess I should just do everyone a solid and crawl back into my shell, hoist the white flag, and give up. God forbid anyone actually be exposed to me. God forbid others have to actually deal with me. God forbid that others know that I actually exist. And God forbid that I cause anyone even the slightest amount of discomfort because I had the audacity of being born wrong!!!

****ing life. Life just ****ing SUCKS!!!!

I've been where you are, many many many times. I've said I tried to kill myself at least 50 times over 50 years. Even nearly fatal medical problems were seen as "opportunities" to finally find peace at times when I felt forced to be Rex against my will.

Until I was 11, I had the hope that it was all a mistake, that I would NOT get testes, and the doctor would tell my parents that I was a girl and should be allowed to become one. The doctors KNEW that I was healthier, happier, and more engaged in life when I was allowed to play with girls, to do things girls did, and to do everything BUT dress. They also knew that when I was forced to play with boys and act like a boy, I got so sick I needed hospitalization. There were times when I would get asthma so severe that I would have to go to the emergency room, and would need to spend about 2 weeks in the hospital. It was so bad that I would rather get IV needles and shots than play with the boys, even though it often took 10-12 tries to find a vein that could actually support the IV.

When I DID turn into a boy, growing hair and voice dropping, it WAS like someone had sentenced me to life in prison, solitary confinement, without even the possibility of parole. By the time I was 13, I was using drugs and booze to put myself into black-outs, often combining booze, recreational drugs, and prescription drugs such as barbiturates, antihistamines, and Valium to put Rex to sleep so that Debbie could come out and play. It got so bad that I was misdiagnosed for Epilepsy, which was how I got the Valium.

For me, the only thing that saved my life was getting into the theater program where people assumed that because I was so femme, that I must be homosexual. They even tried fixing me up a few times. A few women even "confirmed" because I was too ticklish to respond when they tried to seduce me. I didn't even meet a drag queen until I was 18, but it helped me get into college.

The GOOD NEWS is that my wife DID leave, and I DID start transition, and I DID meet someone who totally loved Debbie, and introduced me to several other friends, male and female who loved Debbie too. I even got a new family, including three children, two of which asked me to coach their labor. In New York, I found a community of hundreds of people who loved me and cared for me and supported me in being who I really was. They could see how much joy I had when I was Debbie, and they saw that Debbie brought joy and vitality to their lives.

More important, as Debbie, once I began to experience acceptance, my life became MUCH bigger, wanting to help communities of hundreds, then thousands, then millions, eventually taking on projects that made a difference in the lives of people all over the world, including India, Africa, South America, Asia, and Eastern Europe. I even had the chance to do a stint in the Middle East!

I still have to get up in the morning and suit up and show up. And there are times when one of the biggest struggles is what to wear. There are still times when I want to show up as Debbie, show off my girls, and be who I really am. At the same time, I know that there are times when the compassionate and kind thing to do is to put on a pup-tent shirt, some long slacks, and lace-up shoes. Of course, the underwear is spandex, the slacks are from Avenue or Lane Bryant, the lace up shoes have 3 inch chunk heels, and under the pup-tent shirt is a spandex camisole that protects the girls. Even the hair keeps falling from brushed back to show the receding hairline, to falling forward - with people referring to me as "Miss" or "Maam".

And yes, I do look forward to the day when I don't have to even try to pretend that I'm a boy anymore. I never could pass as a "man", and attempts to do so were actually awkward and as uncomfortable for others as it was for me.

Your wife may have to go her own way. Your daughter may have to go with her. Still, if you are paying child support, you can only be denied visitation if your visitations are a clear and immediate danger to the children. In most states, you would have to be a convicted felon, probably a sex offender, to be denied visitation, and even if your visitation was completely revoked, that might also come with termination of child support.

Both you and your wife should seek out mental health professionals ASAP. You are probably already seeing a gender counselor and you need to talk about this. There are some hard tough choices ahead, like choosing between the "sh*t sandwich" and the "poopy dog".

The hardest time in any change is that point at which we must let go of everything familiar. It seems like we have lost everything, that we will lose it forever, and that we could never be happy or safe again. It almost feels like dying. But that's when the miracles begin to happen. The void is filled with those things which are truly consistent with our current commitments. New people begin to show up, people who love who we have become instead of who we were. Now opportunities show up. Opportunities for the people we have become instead of who we were. We find ourselves becoming part of communities, families, and organizations who WANT us to be who we have become.

You are in that dark spot in the tunnel, and you are afraid the light you see ahead is the train, but it's the light of a new world that will bring you more love, joy, and happiness than you could have ever imagined. Not a perfect world in which you never have problems, that would be boring, but a world where you want to engage in the challenges and problems of your choosing, and you can begin to choose them powerfully.

You will become who you really are!

[Julie Bender]

Oh I am gg and this hurt me big time! On sososo many levels. First of all you have have a right to be who you choose to be!
Secondly about her assessment of your parenting? THAT thinking she displayed is why our kids are all so confused!
Be yourself do what you want as long as it harms no one and in doing so you teach open mindedness and self assuredness!
Hide it,burry it in shame and you teach self loathing and confusion!
YOU are not broken SHE is!

[gonegirl]

.... probaly more importantly, she is protecting her child from the confusion and embarassment of having her daddy turn into an extra "mommy".

Bottom line is, you have two choices; remain the man and daddy in the family and give up your thoughts of becoming a woman, or leave them behind and follow your dream.

I can't speak for you, but my choice would be to remain the man and daddy.

Dear Linda,

I'm blown away at what you said above. Your words show a fundamental lack of understanding about who and what a transsexual is (Anne, in this case). Anne is already a woman and she has been from the womb. Her body came out genetically male and this is an incredibly difficult and painful discord to find peace with. As a TS I can tell you that this is no dream, more like a nightmare to be honest, and it is very hurtful to read those words you wrote.

With regard to Anne's kids, what you say is supposition. Can you say that you have personally experienced being a TS parent? Have you spoken to TS parents or a gender therapist about what they have experienced or witnessed? I am a TS parent and I know other TS parents and I've talked with a therapist at length about what the effect my gender issues might have on my kids. My greatest fear is of screwing up their lives but I know they will be OK because my kids love and respect me for who I am to them, their loving and present parent, regardless of my gender. How Anne's kids are affected by her transsexualism is dependent on how Anne and her wife handle themselves as parents and deal with their situation. Me or you, or anyone who is not dealing directly with their family, and speculating otherwise, is being insensitive and hurtful. Please give some thought to what damage you can do to TS people and their families with your words.

Respectfully,
Simone.

[DebbieL]

Dear Linda,

I'm blown away at what you said above. Your words show a fundamental lack of understanding about who and what a transsexual is (Anne, in this case).

Thank you S1m0ne! I've been a transsexual all my life, and I struggled to understand what a transsexual is. Growing up in the 1960s and 1970s, it was nearly impossible to find ANY information on transsexuality, and what information my parents were able to find, was terrifying. My father was transsexual as well, but back in his day, there was not even the remote possibility of transition. He suffered from asthma. He was effeminate, he was short, and he was nearly hairless even into his 50s. He went bald early. He was a nudist. To my knowledge he never dressed, but he was highly pressured to look and act male. He was an accountant for a public utility, had a wife who needed extensive medical and mental health care, a child who needed frequent hospitalization that would not be covered by a new employer. He got a formal reprimand for wearing a pink tie to work. He couldn't leave the job because he couldn't get health care to cover the pre-existing conditions of myself and my mother. My mother had survived polio at a time when very few people did.

When I was born, my parents knew I was transsexual too. I was born inter-sexed, parts were missing, surgery was needed. They hoped that I would be normal, tried to raise me as a boy, but by the time I was two years old, it was obvious that I couldn't SURVIVE as a boy. I didn't push back, I didn't posture, and since I was submissive, I often got hurt to the point of serious injuries. I started playing with girls and enjoyed their company. When I was with girls, I was safe, and I could trust them. For a few years, I was really happy.

But the time came when I was FORCED to be a boy. It was bloody, it was violent. It was dangerous. It was a nightmare. I WISH I had had a choice, because I would have stopped being a boy IMMEDIATELY and forever.

My parents tried to get medical help, trying to find out what could be done. They were told that "treatment" would be electro-shock and maybe even a lobotomy, possibly even a full frontal lobotomy. My mother had been through shock therapy, getting zapped every day for 30 days. They would tell here she wouldn't get shocked, then sneak up on her, and strap her down. Back in those days, they didn't use sedatives or paralytics, and the pain was agonizing for 15 to 30 seconds, with every muscle in your body cramping and convulsing, and pain like somebody was hitting you in the head with a baseball bat, non-stop. Then would come unconsciousness, and something that felt like death. My mother described it to me in detail once. She would have done ANYTHING to spare me that kind of "treatment".

Nearly every night I would stay awake, trying to talk myself into peace. I would have terrible nightmares about being a girl and being killed, or being tortured. There was also the post traumatic stress of dealing with the daily violence at school. I'd play soccer and the boys would trip me and start kicking me instead of the ball. They would kick me in the face, back, head, ribs, even between the legs. If I'd had that missing equipment it would have been destroyed. If you think that was a CHOICE!!! You have no CLUE what it was to be transsexual.

There were days when the boys would throw rocks the size of tennis balls at me, almost as if they were trying to stone me to death. And there were times when I would have to run home because they boys would pull down tree branches 2-3 inches in diameter, and beat me with them. If I fell, I would be beaten until I couldn't move.

And there were the asthma attacks. Getting tickled, crying, or getting emotionally upset could turn a mild allergy into a nearly fatal condition requiring hospitalization. With the beatings, it was quite common for me to end up in the hospital, tubes in my arms, in an oxygen tent, unable to move, being pumped full of adrenals like epinephrine, isoprel, and adrenaline. These chemicals are normally only in the bloodstream when someone is in a state of extreme terror. I would have them pumped into my veins all day every day for at least a week, and it took another week to taper me off.

Being transsexual was no more a CHOICE than having asthma, the beatings, or anything else. I wanted so badly to be a girl, but I was in constant terror that if anyone found out, they would kill me, or my parents wouldn't love me anymore, or my grandfather would send me to a "Bible Camp", or a boarding school for boys. All of this from 5 years old until I was 11 years old.


Anne is already a woman and she has been from the womb. Her body came out genetically male and this is an incredibly difficult and painful discord to find peace with. As a TS I can tell you that this is no dream, more like a nightmare to be honest, and it is very hurtful to read those words you wrote.

I've described just a few choice moments, and only in brief descriptions. The reality of living it day after day for 20 years, you can't even begin to imagine. The torture and terror continued through Junior High, and even the start of high school.

And even after the violence ended, there was the terror of losing every friend I had, of falling in love and being rejected, of word getting out and the violence starting all over again. It was safer to let people think I was GAY than it was to let them know I was transsexual. I understood the struggles of my gay friends, because I had similar struggles. They assumed that I was just gay and still hiding in the closet. They had no idea that I was so afraid of discovery that my stash was hidden between the mattresses, then UNDER the drawers in my built-in dresser, and other hiding places.

And then there was the terror of falling in love with someone, and when they found out, they shut you out immediately and completely, telling all their friends, eliminating all of your friends as well as the love.


With regard to Anne's kids, what you say is supposition. Can you say that you have personally experienced being a TS parent? Have you spoken to TS parents or a gender therapist about what they have experienced or witnessed? I am a TS parent and I know other TS parents and I've talked with a therapist at length about what the effect my gender issues might have on my kids.

I WAS a TS parent, and my father was a TS parent. He told me that he had taken a test and the result was that he was 75% feminine. The test wasn't that much different than some of the tests we see today. This was before Harry Benjamin. It was even before the Kinsey report was published.

Children are incredibly adaptable, and they love their parents. They have their periods of rebellion, and they will be embarassed by their parents regardless of WHAT they do or WHY they do it. They can be completely OK with going out with their daddy dressed as a girl, and be mortified when their step-father picks them up in an older car. They can also deal with their classmates on the same basis.


My greatest fear is of screwing up their lives but I know they will be OK because my kids love and respect me for who I am to them, their loving and present parent, regardless of my gender. How Anne's kids are affected by her transsexualism is dependent on how Anne and her wife handle themselves as parents and deal with their situation.

In my case, I had to go beyond that. I had to support and encourage my children to love their step-father, even at a time when I knew my son was messing with his medications, and could have killed him. I had to make child support payments to children that I often couldn't even reach by telephone for weeks at a time. Even when I could talk to them on the phone, they could never tell me what was really going on, because their mother was listening on the other line, and would hurt them if they said anything she didn't want them to say.

You think that was a CHOICE?


Me or you, or anyone who is not dealing directly with their family, and speculating otherwise, is being insensitive and hurtful. Please give some thought to what damage you can do to TS people and their families with your words.

I understand her ignorance. She literally has almost no information about transsexuals, what it's like to BE transsexual, what it's like to RAISE a transsexual, or what it's like to be in love with a transsexual. Perhaps, if she has read "The Diary of Anne Frank", she might get a clue.

From 1960, when I got my first library card, until 1980, I could find almost ZERO information about transsexuality. Even the spell checker can't figure out the term today. There is transsexualism, the BELIEF that one is transsexual, which discusses the rational some people try to come up with for BELIEVING that they are transsexual. Even the pornography was mostly focused on drag queens, she-males, and "sissies".

I was 25 before I could tell ANYONE about ANYTHING! Even then, I could only admit to being a cross-dresser, because I knew that if I shared my REAL feelings, she would leave me instantly. A few months later I finally told my 12 step sponsor as part of my 5th step. I seriously thought I might have to kill him afterword, but fortunately, he was very understanding. Unfortunately, he was also clueless as to how to deal with it. Over the next 10 years I would do all 12 steps at least once a year. I had sponsors who were men, sponsors who were women, sponsors who were gay. It wasn't until I had 8 years that I finally met someone who actually had a clue of what to do.

He asked me if this feminine person had a name. He suggested I give her one. He suggested that I should try getting dressed and going for a drive, even if it meant going for a drive in my care. Then he asked me to write inventory while in female mode, and then he asked me to do my 5th step with him in female mode. Even I could see that there was a new personality emerging. I was more honest, more authentic, I could laugh, giggle, even cry. I could share from my heart instead of my head. He even asked me to rewrite the entire inventory as Debbie. It was a whole new dimension, that came from my heart. He suggested that I go to a marriage counselor, because he knew that I needed to see a professional. He realized that a more traditional therapist might not understand that I was transsexual, or if he did, wouldn't know how to deal with it. Since marriage counselors deal with sexuality issues, there was a better chance of getting competent help.

So here it was 1989, I was 34 years old, I had started going to a few 12 step meetings and events, and was finally seeing a therapist. It probably saved my life because my world was about to collapse. A had gone to the company Halloween party in a maid's costume I made myself (I was too fat to wear one off the rack). I looked too good in the dress, with shaved legs, and walked too easily in heels. The VP, a former Navy officer told my boss a few days later that "The Faggot has to Go". He was being advised by lawyers on how to harass and intimidate me into quitting. At the same time, my wife, who had stopped having sex with me for almost 2 years, was telling the therapist "I'm not a Lesbian". As much as it hurt to hear what she was saying, I understood her feelings, and could relate. He gave us a few exercises, but Leslie finally got fed up and tried to rape me with a candle after tying me up. When I started to relax and enjoy it, she was furious. That night, I woke to her thrashing in the bed, I had bruises on my face and arms.

We realized at our next session that every time Leslie saw me have an orgasm, she would have flashbacks of her own rape (she was kidnapped and raped by two men in a cabin in the mountains). In reality she was too terrified to fight, but in her nightmares, she would fight like a tiger, which explained the many times when I woke up sore and bruised on my face, arms, and legs. It was hard to believe that I had slept through so many of these beatings.

The therapist gave us three options. Platonic marriage, open marriage where we each had our own lover, or divorce. She told me that if I tried to get someone else, she would me for everything, threatening to tell the judge all about my "perversions" in court. Meanwhile, she ended up in a psychiatric ward, in a lock-up unit, where she met a new boyfriend and lover. They started having sex in the hospital, and were having an affair that the entire staff knew about. I explained the situation, that she was opting for the open marriage, and that I would probably remain chaste but explore life as Debbie.

After about 3 months, she told me her boyfriend wanted to marry her. I was worried that he might not be able to handle her and the children, and might bug out. I told her that if he still felt that way after a year, I would be her maid of honor, or give away the bride. I also told her that if it didn't work out, she would still be my wife and I would still love her and let her do what made her happy.

I started seeing a gender counselor, who was able to see in 3-4 sessions that I was transsexual. He told me that I was lucky to be alive, that most people who were as severe as me usually died before they were 20. He wanted to meet with me as Debbie, he gave me assignments, and within 3 months, I was living as a girl almost full-time. At work, I had been papered, harassed, and intimidated. During that year, I had achieved a second award for outstanding achievements that increased the profit margin by over $100 million a year. My team was also a finalist for the Malcolm Baldridge award as a result of work I had done. My boss finally told me that even if I won 3 more "Bravo Zulu" awards and doubled the company's profit in the next 90 days, I would be terminated, forced to quit, baited into doing something irrational, or even framed for a criminal act. I was told that if I gave my notice, effective in 90 days, that they would stop harassing me, and let me stay and collect a paycheck as well as look for work until the end of October. Exactly 1 year from wearing that Halloween costume, I was out. My wife had moved out, and I was moving out of my house.

I moved to Denver, which had a large gay population, and stayed in a "no tell motel", the kind that rents by the week and your neighbors are hookers and drug dealers. Within a month, I had a wonderful new job, and the top executives were women. They even told me that my "problems" at my old job were actually assets and my new job.

3 days after my divorce was final, I celebrated 10 years clean, and met a wonderful new woman. She was 5 months pregnant, but she had broken up with her ex-husband, and was living with a pre-op transsexual. She was getting frustrated because her room-mate was swearing off sex, and when I was introduced as transsexual, she reached into her purse to find something and out fell a pair of handcuffs. When I held my hands out and together, she smiled a huge smile, and said "Could you give me a ride?". Instead of asking me to take her home, she told me she wanted to see my inventory, and heard there were some really yummy items on the "menu". Needless to say, we fell in love, she moved in with me, along with her son, and she truly loved Debbie (even more than Rex). She would pick me up after work, take me directly home, and tell me "Get Dressed - Now". After that, anything could happen. We might go out for dinner, I might fix dinner, or we might go to a 12 step meeting. We often ended up making love - as Lesbians, for an hour or two before finally going to sleep. Her son liked Debbie too, and often would wait until after I was dressed to climb up into my lap and have me read him bedtime stories and sing him a lullaby. She brought home her other lovers, some of whom were Lesbian or bisexual, and even the lesbians realized that I really WAS a Lesbian. I also enjoyed doing some of the things that my room-mate wasn't as comfortable with. The result was that everybody had a wonderful time and we had some amazing parties. It didn't take long to be spending every hour not at work dressed full femme. Furthemore, my employer loved my work and how I was relating to people now that I was "out". I literally had 3 different organizations "bidding" for me, wanting me to work on their projects. I even started wearing femme items to work, and frequently got compliments on them. My doctor even started me on hormones. Life was truly wonderful.

That was when Leslie threatened to turn over the papers to have my visitation revoked. In Colorado Springs, the court of record, I had no rights, not even the same rights and protections I would have had in Denver. I stopped the hormones, wore "butch" clothes around the kids, and life disintigrated again. My lover left, along with her friends. I barely survived that fall. One of my lesbian sponsees invited me to do the Landmark Forum and I started turning around again. I became a consultant and was making enough to pay by bills AND my child support. I took some additional Landmark courses, and got the opportunity to go to New York for a few months. In New York, I was able to live as Debbie almost all day. I dressed androgynous at work, still using Rex as my work name, but in every other area, I was Debbie. By the time the contract ended, I was ready to take on a bigger job. I wanted to make the internet available to the general public. One of the reasons was because the Internet had been the first place where I had been able to talk to others like me, transgendered, transsexual, and cross-dressers. I wanted others to be able to access information freely and without restriction or censorship. Al Gore wanted a federally owned internet, I wanted one that was free and available to anyone who could afford a few dollars a month to put up their own content. That was back in 1993. I worked with a mailing list of publishers and within 2 years the list had grown to over 8,000 publishers, as we worked out not only the technical details, but also the social dynamics, how to make it attractive to women, younger boys, and girls. My insights as a transsexual were keenly appreciated.

Unfortunately, it was costing me my anonymity. I was living almost full time as Debbie again, and my work with the Internet was getting noticed. I was offered a chance to do a leadership training program, which would train me is speaking, negotiation, and presentation, as training for executive positions in an organization. The catch was that I had to stop wearing the dresses. I agreed to do so for 6 months, then we would see where it went. It was clear that I was doing a crash and burn, so they asked me if I could be "Debbie in a Suit". I could act like Debbie, but I just had to wear clothes that looked relatively masculine. The program included a number of measures, and 3 months into the program I had met all of them, so they changed the measures. Within the next 3 months, not only did I personally blow away all records, registering over 100 people in programs, but causing my teams to perform equally well. Most people were thrilled when 25% of the people at the events registered, and I was consistently bringing in 75-85%. They told me that they would put me in the executive program - if I would burn Debbie's wardrobe. I couldn't do it. I had put everything in storage, but when they made that request, they began to see me struggle. I even got seriously ill and gained a huge amount of weight very suddenly. I realized it would kill me, literally, if I tried to "kill Debbie" by burning her clothes. I turned down the advanced programs and went back to being a "phantom".



Respectfully,
Simone.

Debbie

[Sara Jessica]

Anne is already a woman and she has been from the womb. Her body came out genetically male and this is an incredibly difficult and painful discord to find peace with.

Interesting, that's pretty much what I've been saying all along about what it is to be who I am, yet I am not afforded the courtesy of being considered TS as well.

Oh, that's right. Being a TS woman is defined by action. Anne is taking action, I am just a fence-sitter.

For what it's worth Simone, I agree with you 100%.


I've been a transsexual all my life...

Wow, you too? There's a few of us out there, eh?


Being transsexual was no more a CHOICE than having asthma...

Right on!


I understand her ignorance.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and try to point out where I think Linda was coming from. I think we can all agree that being transsexual is not a choice.

I have said before and I'm sure I'll say it again (like right now) that what we do with our condition is where choice comes in. That is unless the choice is made for you in the form of your daily life becoming such a living hell living as a dude that your relationships are affected, that your very life is at risk. I get that. But as one explores and comes to understand what being TS means in their own world, in their own personal situation, and what to do about it, it still amounts to choice.

Some transition well before things get to a dire extreme, some get to that point and "fail to launch" for whatever reason, and some in both camps certainly pay the ultimate price regardless of the path they take. There is no perfect answer.

And these decisions are complicated by the variables in our lives. Anne has plenty of these to consider and this is why I can relate to her so well. She is as much like me as just about anyone in these pages. And I think both of us can identify with someone like Kaitlyn who came from a place very similar to where we are now. Kaitlyn demonstrates that hope is not lost when it comes to family and their dealing with transition. But at the same time I know that while I would be the last person to say to Anne "you should stay on a middle path", I still want her to understand that making a decision to take that path is a valid one. And regardless of the road she takes, she has my friendship and as much support as I am able to offer in the times ahead, regardless of the fact that I am on a different path than her. I still understand what is in her heart, just as she understands what's in mine.

Bringing this full circle, from what I can tell based on what Anne has shared, the signs point towards tough times from a family standpoint. This is why I have put my thoughts out there. I'm all but sure that is where Linda was coming from as well. I'll leave it to her as to whether she could have worded it a little differently so as not to upset several in this section. I don't think any of us intend to do that on purpose.

[Lacyfem]

Anne, my heart goes out to you and your family as what you're going through is tearing you apart and what you are expressing really shows your pain. My head would be spinning with all the opinions and advice given here and I think from what I'm hearing from you that you are quite intelligent and will make your own decision based on your changing relationship with your wife. Hopefully it will work out and as they say, "good things don't come easy". This site is a wonderful place for us as you can vent and use it for a sounding board and more than anything you really have to think out your feelings when you're typing them out. So keep the feelings coming and pick and choose carefully if you wish to take the advice from here as it's your life and happiness at stake. Best of luck and I hope you have someone around to hug you and make you feel loved as you sound like such a good person.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

If I take Linda's comment at face value, its pretty offensive to transsexuals...it lacks any basis is knowledge regarding the transsexual condition...its ok, people can say what they want, but its important to pay attention to credibility..

sara said kind things about me...I did mostly work it out...we have issues...my exwife still resents me at times and recent events have conspired to have her upset at me and my transition more than usual, but as a whole we worked it out in a loving and compassionate way...and FWIW, she chose to leave before I transitioned, she sensed my distance, she sensed my inability to function and she took it as lack of love, she intuitively knew I was not really there as a man in her marriage..

do any of the gg's get that?? it must have been horrible for her, and it informs my thoughts and advice here..

my best guess is it boils down to intensity...an intense crossdresser can rail against us because "he" wants affirmation of "her" femme side....I can give you that, but I can't abide by you then giving out empty platitudes to people suffering with extreme transsexual feelings...they just cannot understand..

and for people that are trying the middle path, I would simply say go for it!! its a great answer as long as the you can manage it, but I have experienced the intensity that makes middle path impossible..literally impossible...my ex wife felt the intensity before I did!!!!!!!!! and left the marriage...

so if you can cut it as a guy with a female side and life, I would always say don't transition unless you have to!>.

and in this particular case, isn't it obvious that Anne's feelings are INTENSE??? isn't it obvious that she is DESPERATELY trying to avoid a transition?? and isn't it obvious she is fricking terrified that she won't be able to avoid it..??
isn't it obvious reading her 1000's of posts that she is doing her best to communicate in real time with a person she loves??

I know this to be true because I have lived it and I see it in anne's words and actions...

anyway...yes some people have choices...others try so hard to choose and just can't...its the stark real life situation many of us have faced..the idea that any of us have any control over the intensity of our transsexual feelings seems totally wrong to me..
pretty much everybody that I know personally over 40 that transitioned tried to control those feelings and failed...I was a highly successful businessman...I am highly educated...I got every job I ever interviewed for..everything I wanted to do, I did....
but this beat me down..the INTENSITY made my life unlivable..

my risk was to lose everything..i lost a lot, kept the rest..

the middle pathers risk is a day in the future where the intensity hits...and that will be that...over the years I've learned that my original view that middle pathers are doomed is not true...that's because I've learned that the intensity doesn't always get so bad...its not that it can be controlled, its just that it doesn't develop the way it did for me

[Kathryn Martin]

.....or leave them behind and follow your dream.

I can't speak for you, but my choice would be to remain the man and daddy.

That dearest Linda is why you are a man who likes to dress up for the boards, and maybe for the bar here and there and not transsexual. It's really that simple. You imagine there is a choice because you hardly have any knowledge what it means to run out of options when it comes to being transsexual. When there is nothing left but your kids having either a dead father or two mothers. When you have no choice. Of course you and some other might say man up and do your duty, but how. How do you teach a woman to man up, to grow a pair. You know women don't man up, they have their own ways of dealing with things of which you have so little knowledge. And central what we do is not being a man but be who we are, women. So your advice, while useful for those who like to dress a little, put make up on and to smaller or larger extent present as if they could be women might be useful. But to those here that are transsexual they are empty words, devoid of meaning because you premise and assume something that just does not exist for those that are transsexual.


so if you can cut it as a guy with a female side and life, I would always say don't transition unless you have to!

If you can be a man that has a female side, a man that likes to dress up as a woman maybe at times, even often, then do not ever transition. It is the worst thing you can do. It will destroy your life.

If you are a woman that had to pretend she was a man to simply survive, then what are you waiting for. Once you what your true innate gender is there is no more time to waste.

Recently I read a quote from a recent thread.



“Can you imagine a cancer forum where people were discouraged from seeking chemo, or told - "nah, you probably don't have cancer?"


Let me be clear about this. No one would ever discourage or deny chemo treatment to anyone if they have been diagnosed with cancer and the treatment of this sort was indicated. The comparison to comments by transitioned individuals on this board implied in the above statement is a false implication. If you came to a cancer forum and said “I think I have cancer because I had boils when I was young and so I want to try chemo, maybe by buying online chemotherapy because no one believes me”, then of course I would discourage you. You don’t have cancer because you surmise you do, you get diagnosed.



Some of you ask or postulate that you are transsexual. What no one seems to understand is that asking the question in the first place is incredibly irresponsible and quite frankly inane. If you do, you reveal that you have really not thought about what you might be. You flirt with a fantasy, “wouldn’t it be nice if I became a girl and tried hormones? I would get boobs and wear all those nice dresses, put all that cool make-up on”. Maybe say “I am a lesbian because I like girls!” “I like being in “femme” mode because you have all of those “girly” or “womanly” feelings, you might say “I connect with children better when I am in “femme” mode”.


Those of us who are transsexual feel you know little or nothing. Being born with this medical condition means a realization early on (usually during puberty) that you are a freak. You have all of these feelings and all of this knowledge who you are. You are attracted to boys (some but very few to girls), weak kneed head spinning attraction like most of the girls around you, but most of the boys think you are off limits because they think your body and reproductive configuration defines you as of the male gender. Some of us get raped in this early part of life to “teach the sissy”, taken advantage of by older men who think it’s hot to screw young boys. Some of us do not survive this age.


Just wait until you realize that you are barren, and that you will never be able to carry a child, some of us try to have children with a female partner because without this we would be childless. There are those of us who cannot bear this stage of our lives and prefer to die rather than live a life in which we cannot fulfil our true and deepest destiny.



Statistically, 41% of us will have made at least one serious attempt to kill ourselves before the age of 30 which rises to 48% over a lifetime.



For us it is never about the clothes, the image, the feminine feelings, it is only about survival, about healing that which makes us freaks, it is about becoming whole nothing else. All of us experience doubts, speculation of what we are, but we all know that we are freaks of nature. And the elements that are central to being who we are medically are all so similar. Individual biographies may vary but certain and specific medical and experience aspects are the same.


So we watch people come and go on this forum, and we have no problem to know who is transsexual and who is not. You talk, we listen, we know after a while. We encourage those that have taken the journey and hope for them and accompany them as best we can, most often privately. We try and discourage those that are caught in a whirlwind of dreams and fantasy and would destroy their lives in the process. And we wait. Because if you truly are who you think you are we will see you again, and again. Sometimes I can see the penny drop, I see the shift when their vista suddenly becomes clear and they begin to understand their own history in the right perspective.


Once you have taken the path and you have completed it you know what drives transsexuals to do what we do, what makes us transition, why we are who we are. We do know. If you think this is elitist I can’t help you. If you think that this is a resource for you, you will find help here.


What Anne and many others experience between guilt and abject hyper intense need to transition is, when you step back for a moment so very interesting. Even her awareness (although she is a bit of a drama queen and I love her for that) of this incredible dichotomy reveals something very fundamental to me. I see these struggles in women faced with an impossible situation, when there are no options and only consequences that hurt and give pain. And what is left is doing what is against our very nature so we may be whole and present. If you can really deeply understand this, understand how much we violate our own nature in what we must do to stop this violence then maybe ............

[Anne2345]

Bottom line is, you have two choices; remain the man and daddy in the family and give up your thoughts of becoming a woman, or leave them behind and follow your dream.

I can't speak for you, but my choice would be to remain the man and daddy.

You know what, Linda? You are absolutely, 100% totally correct - you cannot speak for me. So as others here have pointed out, and I agree with, you are in effect advising me to grow a pair, man up, and be someone I am not. As for what you would choose, as it relates to me, it is completely irrelevant. It is of no consequence whatsoever. It is completely meaningless, and totally inapplicable to my circumstances. That you would choose to "remain" the "man and daddy??!!"

What are your motives for telling me this, Linda? Why offer to me what you would do in my place? First of all, you are NOT in my place. You are a crossdresser. Nothing wrong with that. God bless you. I hope you enjoy your life style and receive much satisfaction and enjoyment from the choices YOU have made.

But those choices are rather limited, are they not? Earlier in another post, you wrote:


I would like to shave, but I spend a lot of time in male mode in shorts and it would be pretty obvious to close friends. My wife is more concerned about it than I am. I do trim my leg and arm hair with a man's groomer to 1/2".

Hmmmm. Interesting. You do not even have the "balls" to shave your own legs, but yet you have the audacity to suggest to me that I should man up, and be the "man" and "daddy" in my family??!!! How dare you!!! You have nothing to offer me here. Nothing. And that you would suggest I should do as you, and that you would assume I actually have "two" choices in my life, and that one of those choices is a "dream??" WTF, Linda??!!

I am not a "daddy.'' I am a parent. And I am not a "man," I am a woman. So there is no "man" inside of me to being with. But as others have already pointed out, you clearly do not understand this. I will, however, give you the benefit of the doubt - I am sure you were well intentioned. The problem is, though, and through no fault of your own, is that you do not get it, and you cannot get it. Be thankful for that. But also don't put words out there that are completely devoid of reason, logic, understanding, and education. You know not that which you speak of.


(although she is a bit of a drama queen and I love her for that)

Who? Moi? A drama queen??!! Not li'l ole sweet innocent me!!! Say it ain't so!!! Lol!!! Okay, I admit I do have just the smallest smidgeon of drama queen in me. But as long as you love me for that, then it's all good, right? :-)

[Nicole Erin]

So if you were crucified, was it to pay for the sins of mankind?
Anne, forgive the forum members, for they know not what they do