Just a Cross Dresser

[Lucy_Bella]

I am not starting a finger pointing thread for the sake of arguement:eek:

I think it is safe to say that a majority of us under the " Mythical and Falsely " coined terminology " Trans Gender " is the proper umbrella for every form of crossdressing.. It's not if anything the Term "Cross-Dressers " should be the proper umbrella because it is what we all do right? Wrong..Let me explain why..

You have three groups under the "Trans" umbrella ..

1. Tran Sexual

2. Trans Gender

3. Cross Dresser

If born a T.S. you feel that( know) you are the wrong sex/gender you was born as..By dressing in the clothing opposite of what you was born as technically does not make you a Cross Dresser.. So calling a Trans Sexual a Cross Dresser could be offensive..Because they are dressing in the proper gender they felt ( knew) they should have been born as.. ** Hope I got that right T.S.'s without offending any**

If born a T.G. you are satisfied with the sex you was born as but you have the desire to express or live as the opposite sex with no plans of altering ( or little changes to) your body..You have two/dual gender roles and cross-dress to satisfy or express the gender you was not born as.. T.S.'s are not T.G.s

Cross Dresser , you may or may NOT be born as a Cross Dresser ..You do NOT have two/dual gender roles..You are completely satisfied with the gender you was born as,you do not struggle with gender identities..You may or may not dress for sexual arousal ..Trans Genders are also Cross Dressers but Cross Dresser are not ALWAYS Trans Gender..

Definitions arouse from physiological treatment or the proper need to group the above under one umbrella coining the phrase " Trans Gender" creating the community as a whole but also into three groups ..Knowing the difference between TG'S and TS's yet little was known about "Just a Cross Dresser" ..Why? It is believed that unlike the T.S. and T.G. the "just a Cross Dresser "was by far less likely involved in the original studies but they knew they were out there.That's why "Trans Gender" is not the proper umbrella term.. It would be like the assumption a T.S. is a cross dresser..

They knew that the act of crossdressing was the starting point for both T.S and T.G.s and at one time treated both as the same condition through research/studies they have found major difference between the two and for treatment purposes separated the two .They found that T.G.s who transitioned made their condition( if you will) far worse. Proper treatment was needed to determine the effects of transitioning.. Why was this important for me to touch on this in my thread ?

Because just as it was important to know the difference between the T.S. and T.G.'s it is equally important to know the differences between T.G. and just a Cross Dresser.. Many seem to think that the only difference between the two is a few years. In part they are very much correct because T.G.'s do start from the act of crossdressing but they progress.That doesn't mean all who commit the act of crossdressing progress or progress for the same reasons..

You simply can not assume because you progressed and accepted yourself as a T.G. that all who cross dress will do that for the same reasons.. By logic that would assume that a T.G. would progress to a T.S. right? We know through past studies that is not true.. Why is this important? Being a T.G. causes no harm? Correct and neither does being a T.S. but the wrong treatment does.. Being it comes as support or through a professional, trusted advice has life changing awards and or punishments for people who look for answers..People can be miss diagnosed simply through assumptions this can later lead to regrets .. Not all people who engage the act of crossdressing will become T.G.s or T.S.'s many will never progress at all,many will always be "just a Cross Dresser"

I was asked in another thread not to use such a wide brush... Maybe I am not the one holding the brush.. I hope this creates a little more understanding as to why this subject is even brought up.. It's not who is better or who is worse we are all in this together ..If anything its about assumptions we shouldn't all assume ..

Thanks for reading.. :)

[dawnmarrie1961]

Our "Umbrella" has a lot of holes in it. How's about another umbrella term like perhaps "person". Cuz that is what we all are.

[Jodi]

I've never worried about labels during the 60 years that I have been dressing. I just enjoy wearing the clothes. I think you are trying to read too much into it.

Jodfi

[Lucy_Bella]

I've never worried about labels during the 60 years that I have been dressing. I just enjoy wearing the clothes. I think you are trying to read too much into it.

Jodfi

Jodi, you are right I could be and I have no problem being right or wrong with this ..Because in the end like Dawn Marrie says...We are all people... But in the same sense if you were to see a psychologist would you prefer to see one that would better help you ? Would being just a Cross Dresser with no gender issues help you by seeing a gender specialist ? Of course not..

Not every one seeks professional help I understand that but depression ,loss of friends or family because of your actions could lead some to find help and the important thing in finding help would be getting the right help..

Wouldn't it also be a credit to better explain yourself to S.O.'s future S.O.s ,family and friends?..To eliminate the process of elimination from the umbrella as a whole? " No you don't want to be a girl" no you have no feminine feelings" etc..

[Georgette]

For sure we do get a lot of labels and the one I do not care for is queer, a genic female can wear any clothes or do what ever she wants to such as into boys sports she is called just a tomboy but if a boy wants to play with dolls he is labled a sissy well I was a sissy , but my father forced me in to sports and by the way I turned out to be an allstar pitcher for my school, but I still played with dolls.

[Angela Campbell]

According to Wikipedia Transgender is the state of one's gender identity (self-identification as woman, man, neither or both) not matching one's assigned sex (identification by others as male, female or intersex based on physical/genetic sex)

So as a crossdresser who does not identify with any other genetic / biological sex than what you are born with, you would not be considered TG.

According to WPATH it is not unusual for crossdressers not to want therapy. (or necessarily need it)

[Rachelakld]

I also hate labels, but will accept CARING, FATHER, LOVER, HUSBAND, ENGINEER, CRAZY, HAPPY
I don't need an outsider telling me these things to make them any more or less real

[PaulaQ]

Also from wikipedia:
By 1992, the International Conference on Transgender Law and Employment Policy defined transgender as an expansive umbrella term including "transsexuals, transgenderists, cross dressers" and anyone transitioning.

Sorry cross dressers - you are under the umbrella. I question the notion that "transvestic fetishists" are not included, and that they are a paraphilia, because a significant number of MtF TS both androphilic and gynephilic exhibit transvestic fetishism.

[Lucy_Bella]

.

Sorry cross dressers - you are under the umbrella. I question the notion that "transvestic fetishists" are not included, and that they are a paraphilia, because a significant number of MtF TS both androphilic and gynephilic exhibit transvestic fetishism.

Paula ...Haha ..we can beat a dead horse or we can agree to dis agree ..Like it says crossdressers are also T.G.s but "Just a Cross Dresser" is not always Look up the definition of "Transvestic "... It's the original Umbrella for all forms of crossdressing it to was abandon because people didn't like the definition.

Also a transvestic fetishism a medical term used for a fetish Cder ..We don't like that name and as you can see we like to be call Just a Cross Dresser..

[Wildaboutheels]

Lost in Translation and discussion maybe... is the name of THIS site.

I have to wonder how many think it's a BAD name and/or that it reallllllllyyyyyyy should be changed to something else? I don't even want to think about what some people might want for a new name.

[TeresaCD]

Someone may correct me - in England, to call someone a tranny is implying that they are gay and cross dress?
In Aus, don't thing the same would apply
My point being - labels suck!
I'm like Rachel - not fond of labels, never saw myself as anything.
Now understand technically that I'm transgendered, but also that this is a spectrum, which we are all somewhere along.
But then, I am me, so who cares really?!

[PaulaQ]

Lost in Translation and discussion maybe... is the name of THIS site.

I have to wonder how many think it's a BAD name and/or that it reallllllllyyyyyyy should be changed to something else? I don't even want to think about what some people might want for a new name.

I have no problem with this site being about cross dressing, and mainly focused on male gender identifying M2F cross dressers. As such, crossdressers.com is the right name for it. Y'all need all the support you can get - god knows the medical and psychological professions don't care about you - at all!

One of the problems with labels is that they are being used for two, not entirely compatible purposes. Political purposes, and scientific purposes. The politics of this stuff, since it involves human behavior, seems to me to have a bad tendency to influence the science. For political purposes you want sort of an egalitarian view. For science, that isn't necessarily the case - because mother nature don't always play fair and equal.

FWIW, I don't believe that the vast majority of folks who visit this site will EVER be anything but male gender identifying M2F cross dressers. They may progress in the extent of their dress - or not. That will depend. I venture that most probably won't, although perhaps some could be spurred on by this site.

I am more interested in the science of this stuff. For politics, I think labels can be a double-edged sword.

[ReineD]

You have three groups under the "Trans" umbrella ..

1. Tran Sexual

2. Trans Gender

3. Cross Dresser

You forgot a few: bigender, dualgender, genderqueer, gender-neutral, gender non-conformist, androgyne, genderfluid, inbetweenie, fence-sitter, femulator, drag queen (there are several types), transgenderist, transvestite, pangender, two-spirit, agender, TS-questioning, and I'm sure dozens more words for people who don't feel they fit into any of the words already listed. :p

... not to mention the wide array of intersex who may or may not have gender identities that are outside the male/female binary.

That's why the umbrella term is called 'trans'gender. All of these people (except the transsexuals who once transitioned are women [or men if FtM]) have in common the fact that they engage in behaviors that cisgenders do not engage in, which is cross-sex or cross-gender expression, no matter the degree of gender dysphoria.

I personally don't believe that Drag Queens belong, the DQs who do this strictly as a profession and who do not crossdress when not on stage. It's just a job for them.

I also don't think that men who present as men in public but who wear some items of feminine clothing in order to redefine male fashion, fall under the transgender umbrella ... unless of course they don't think of themselves as cis-males.

Some fetishists belong under the umbrella and others don't if the only time they dress is for sexual release and then it all comes off. IMO


==================

That said, you need to realize that everyone has a different notion of the male or female genders. Ultra girly, curvy and petite GGs consider themselves female. Likewise, ultra athletic, non-frou-frou, angular GGs consider themselves female too.

I'm saying this to point out that different people use the same words to describe themselves. Many people who do dress for identity reasons call themselves CDer, just as pure male fetishists call themselves CDer.

Some transsexuals call themselves transgender, while some gender non-conformists call themselves transsexual.

There are several levels of transsexual (see the Benjamin scale), depending on the degree of gender dysphoria.

Gender non-conformists suffer from various degrees of gender dysphoria too.

It's really confusing, isn't it. :p

[Samantha_Smile]

It's my opinion that transexualism and crossdressing have got nothing to do with each other although their lines may bleed.

It seems to me that the only thing that TS and CD have in common is a penis under the dress.
The reason I say this is because the reasons for the above are nothing like similar.

[Kalista Jameson]

Some may say that I am transgender or not because I like to crossdress. But if anyone asks me, I can't tell them because I'd have to learn exactly what those terms and definitions mean to them and each and every person I talk to. That to me seems daunting and impossible. Rather that that, I keep it simple with myself and folks. Without using labels, I just tell them I am a straight male who likes to wear women's clothes. I tell them exactly what is relevant to me and minimize pitfalls in communication.

If someone else explains their story to me in those simple terms, whatever is true about them, I'll understand them better. If they use the bazillions of terms out there, I'll be lost until I understand exactly what those terms mean to them, which to me seems a fruitless exercise because they will mean something different to the next person sharing with me and I'm back to square one.

I think concepts and ideas are good, no so much labels because mileage varies way too much.

Just my thoughts,

Kalista

[Lucy_Bella]

Reine ,

No one here is in argumet over an umbrella but plenty are over the name..There is already a group under the "Trans Gender" name.. Does that fit the others like T.S.'s? Or transvestic fetishism ( just a cross dresser)? It only adds tho the confusion.,. Now most of the other names you gave are tied to the three groups they have homeS there already.. I feel that if the community has to have a name it needs to be more fitting.. Like the" Trans community" that covers all three groups..

Trans Sexual

Trans Gender

Transvestic Fetishism or "just a Cross Dresser..

[Angela Campbell]

Labels are pretty important because without them there would be no language, and no real descriptive communication. The problem is when someone does not like the description or when some do not agree with a description. Understandable because the entire subject is hard to describe.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Of cause some of us are quite different we can dress yet not a dresser, we are born female yet are not . we are born male again yet not , we are nether yet both .

Do we need a name or are we classeifide as ...., well you know anyway. yet im accepted fully as a female & as a woman. had my birth cert said what i was in the begining i would not have had to go through what i did, just to be who i am , one word would have covered it all.... no.... they could not say it , not allmost 66 years ago.

dont matter now of cause im just a woman,

...noeleena...

[Beverley Sims]

When overthinking time comes, like now, I am on a holiday and I am going out to ski in the water this time.

[NicoleScott]

This is the continuing (because it's never been resolved) discussion about definitions.
I crossdress, therefore I fall under the transgender umbrella, regardless of what drives me to crossdress.
Lucy Bella, maybe there needs to be a label for those who are "more than CD, less than TS", but the word "transgender" is already taken. It's the umbrella term. Another word is needed, and it, too, will fall under the TG umbrella. Until found, the arguments and the confusion will go on. If we can't have the same understanding of "transgender", how can we expect the general public to understand?

Edit: Words that broadly describe things are useful, as are words that more narrowly describe. The animal analogy is good. Sometimes we need to discuss carnivores in general, and sometimes we want to talk about border collies specifically. We don't need to discard or redefine words that are general. Find another word for crossdressers with feminine internal identities as opposed to crossdressers who dress for pleasure, if it's important for you to distinguish between them (*see below). Transgender is taken - it's the umbrella term.

* I think that's what this is all about: those that are driven to dress by their internal feminine identity don't want to be associated (under an umbrella) with those who dress for sexual pleasure.

[docrobbysherry]

My head hurts! U can all discuss this until the earth crumbles. And, u STILL will never find a definition(s) that cover everyone!

We r all: one from column A. one from B. 2 from C. None from D. one from E. Etc., etc., etc!

[Lisa Jeffreys]

I am still trying to figure out who I am and in a very basic sense I like Lucy's very general breakdown. I see myself as trans genered and accept that identification (label if you will) happily. I can use this to understand myself better and begin to move forward again.

When I crossdress my intent and desire is to present myself as a female. I don't think that I ever wish to become a female but I want to be recognized as one when I dress and I wish to interact with those around me as a female when I dress. Yes, I do let out a loud sigh when I remove my bra and the breasts go with it instead of sagging on my chest. I leave my chest hairy and implants would look ridiculous and I'd never do anything but play with them. More than six days a week I am a guy that might have on some female garb but I present as a guy. When I go girl I go girl as best as I possibly can.

In my case I like crossing the gender barrier from time to time so I think I am transgender. All that means is that in my own mind I can more easily understand who I am and be more confident about it. What we call ourselves isn't important, finding ourselves is and I am starting to understand myself one discovery at a time.

XOXO
Lisa

[Kate Simmons]

People can call me what they want. I don't care as long as I still get paid. I stopped being concerned about what I am some time ago. Now I concentrate on who I am and becoming a better person. Seems to work better for me Hon.:)

[UNDERDRESSER]

I do not like labels for themselves, but they can be illuminating when discussing this. But they can also be very confusing and misleading. I try to explain my own point of view, and how i consider myself, when discussing subjects that i think need that clarity.

[Alice B]

That's me.Just a cross dresser and very comfortable with it.

[Lucy_Bella]

It's the umbrella term. Another word is needed, and it, too, will fall under the TG umbrella. Until found, the arguments and the confusion will go on. If we can't have the same understanding of "transgender", how can we expect the general public to understand?

Correct!


We don't need to discard or redefine words that are general. Find another word for crossdressers with feminine internal identities as opposed to crossdressers who dress for pleasure, if it's important for you to distinguish between them (*see below). Transgender is taken - it's the umbrella term.

* I think that's what this is all about: those that are driven to dress by their internal feminine identity don't want to be associated (under an umbrella) with those who dress for sexual pleasure.

There already is another word that does describe the difference..The issue is that a majority of people here can not accept that just because there is a **Group with the same name as the umbrella term** we all should fit into that definition and swear by it ..Not true! That's what it's all about ..

[Kathy Smith]

I don't know if I'm TG or not. I don't care either. Labels are for other people to worry about, not me. :)

I know I don't want my body changing to something like female - my brain says I'm male. I think. I don't think I've ever been female so I can't be sure. How can I say whether I've had/got feminine feelings when I've never definitely been someone that has them? :D

I know I like to crossdress.

That's enough for me. lol

[ReineD]

No one here is in argumet over an umbrella but plenty are over the name..There is already a group under the "Trans Gender" name..

Some years ago, when stories about transitioning transsexuals began to make it into the news, and when there were more stories about young children with parents who supported their transsexualism, the news media began not using the term "transsexual" in favor of the term "transgender", I'm assuming in order to distance the topic from the word "sexual". It is at this point, I believe, that some of the gender non-conformists (or CDers, or any of the words I listed before), began to call themselves Transgender too. They also wanted to distance themselves from the word "sexual" since we do live in a society that still has significant conservative, puritanical, or religious pockets.

This is why the term "Transgender" can never be more than ambiguous. Too many different people are using it and even if a few people that you know use it whom you believe are in between the reasons that you crossdress and the reasons that transsexuals transition, it doesn't mean that the word describes it's very own level of gender dysphoria.

Speaking of just TSs though, the term "transsexual" in our community (people in the mainstream still have no clue) does accurately describe someone who wants to permanently change their secondary sexual characteristics (beard, breasts, skin, muscle mass, etc) and primary sexual characteristics (genitalia) in accordance with their gender identity.

Actually, if you want to use accurate terms to describe the various levels of transgender, Dr. Harry Benjamin came up with a scale, from Type I to Type VI back in the 1960s that is still rather relevant today:

http://harrychart.goiar.f-m.fm/Original/OriginalChart.jpg

You can substitute the word "transvestite" for "crossdresser" if you wish. The first is Latin based and the latter, English.

[Lorileah]

we are not starting another thread about how different people define terms...this is getting very monotonous.