Labels and Crossdressing

[AmandaJean]

Had an interesting thought in the shower about labels. Sometimes it feels that labels are used so we don't need to tax our brain too much. It's so much easier to label something so we can place it into a "box" that makes sense to us. Once in that "box" it's easier to decide if we can like what we've labeled or if we hate it.

No matter how another person sorts these labels, it's how you feel about it that's truly important and not the label itself.

What is it that we do exactly? We dress to look like a person of the opposite gender. And why has the label Crossdresser (or insert any label here) come to describe what you do?

Try looking at it in a new light. Couldn't you be considered a Performance Artist? It would certainly allow a greater leeway with the general population. It's just that we choose to use ourselves as the canvas. What's wrong with art?

When you break it down a further.

We are sculptors, changing our bodies by adding or subtracting material to build a work of art based on our tastes and desires. A little tuck here, a little padding there, some silicone right over there… and the canvas has been altered.

We are painters. Taking cosmetic "paints" to illustrate the illusion of a smoother, younger and more beautiful appearance. Changing colors to highlight the areas we choose to, and downplay the features we'd like to "hide" from the viewer.

We are actors. Shifting our internal consciousness to portray another. Using movement (dance) and vocal qualities (singing) to bring our masterpiece into clearer focus.

We are Artists.

It doesn't matter what your artwork looks like or how permanent you decide it should be, you could be considered a Performance Artist.

Of course if you're happy with the labels that society has chosen, by all means use them. But if societies labels make you feel uncomfortable or "broken", make one up that fits your feelings, wants and needs.

No matter what the label, you will always remain…. a human being.

Love to hear your thoughts….

Amanda

[Angela Campbell]

Why do we call it that? Well we have to call it something. We need names for things so others know what we are talking about. Why do we call a car a car and not an Automobile or horseless carriage? We tend to use terms that are easy.

[Emogene]

Regarding the concept of labels, the old joke comes to mind. If it walks like a duck, flies like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck! Like Almostalady said, it is a convenient way to discuss and make sense of the thing/concept described by the label.

How many thousands of members are there in this forum, each is unique. If it helps, you can call me CD1, you want to be CD2? There has to be some general starting point for any conversation.

Here, it appears to be cross dresser!

[Terraforming]

There might be a certain level of pretension associated with calling ourselves artists, sculptors or performers. It's all down to how we dress, hence the label.

[Madeline80]

Amanda, your remarks really resonate with me and I agree we are artists in some aspects. Personally, I feel more like a jailer. The artistic process is a way of opening the cell door and inviting Madeline out into the world. She has become accustomed to it, likes it more and more, and is now waiting by the door every day. I find I have to do less "acting" and just let her enjoy and express herself.

[marlenesexton]

I know some of this is gender based but a lot of it, for me at least, is clothing based. I hate labels. They are like stereotypes, based on truth but usually inaccurate except to define large groups. No two people on these boards crossdresses for the same reasons. At it's heart, what we do is play dress up. I know it goes deeper from some, but it's what we do. The labels imply were all gay or confused. I'm not confused. I'm a guy that enjoys looking at and wearing feminine clothes.

The only label I like is "Just enjoying life as I see fit"

[andrea lace]

We are all Gender bending sissies, poofs, homos, queers, trannies, nonces, fags, hell I just ran out of labels so heres one to ponder over Colourful

[CherylFlint]

I agree 100%.
And an Academy Performance is when you get out there on the “stage” and “pass” (fool the audience).
I used to have an apartment that the front door, bath and kitchen faced West and my bedroom and living room windows faced East.
Living across from me were apartments that had a lot of single girls and as far as they knew, a girl lived in my apartment because I never had the curtains opened unless I was dressed, or undressed.
For the first 4 months I’d just have the drapes opened a little at times, as if I forgot to close them all the way, and maybe be at my makeup table in the bedroom doing my face.
After 6 months I was comfortably walking around in various stages of undress and so were they.
Alas, I had to move after a year to take a new job in a different city but every time I paraded in the living room I considered it “My Stage”.
Loved it.

[noeleena]

Hi,

So its really all down to how we dress , okay. now lets see if this works i buy a pair of overalls or bib ones how do i know which is which. not including colours,
I prefer pink. so where does male or female come in.... hmmm....

...noeleena...

[AmandaJean]

In my eyes the idea of looking at labels was not to change the world, only to offer an alternative for some to frame what they do in a different light. To many the word crossdresser is a loaded term as Andrea points out. If these labels "hurt" in any way, why not reframe it in your mind?


CherylFlint
I agree 100%.
And an Academy Performance is when you get out there on the “stage” and “pass” (fool the audience).

Cheryl, that's exactly what I mean. It's a performance at some level. Bravo for being brave enough to perform so eloquently on your "stage".


marlenesexton
I know some of this is gender based but a lot of it, for me at least, is clothing based. I hate labels. They are like stereotypes, based on truth but usually inaccurate except to define large groups. No two people on these boards crossdresses for the same reasons. At it's heart, what we do is play dress up. I know it goes deeper from some, but it's what we do. The labels imply were all gay or confused. I'm not confused. I'm a guy that enjoys looking at and wearing feminine clothes.

The only label I like is "Just enjoying life as I see fit"

Marlene, I love this... and it resonates with me. Thanks!


Madeline80
Amanda, your remarks really resonate with me and I agree we are artists in some aspects. Personally, I feel more like a jailer.

Madeline, glad that the idea resonates with you. Why do you feel like a jailer? Do you feel guilt or shame because you cross dress? Or is it because when you dress you feel you can not go out into the world? Just curious.


Terraforming
There might be a certain level of pretension associated with calling ourselves artists, sculptors or performers. It's all down to how we dress, hence the label.

There is a bit of pretension about calling yourself any label. Besides I have artist friends who are very pretentious and others who are very down to Earth. Can we as "artists" not choose how we act to the world?

Again applying labels, stereotyping, judging, etc others (or ourselves for that matter) based on too little information can cause problems.

Thank you for replying and offering your thoughts on this.

Amanda

[Lucy_Bella]

What a perfect and almost well thought out thread... Really ...It's a perfect utopia but then again we all don't live in a fantasy land and the real world doesn't stop and wait .. Don't get me wrong what a world that would be :).. But then reality hits and you hear some pretty nasty thoughts about cross- dressing and you go "wait a minute !! " I have lived my whole life as a victim " and this page is my utopia" how dare you"!

Yeah last I check on the title it's a support site but fantasies seem to be what drives us( by saying us takes all responsibilities from this site and places it upon the members) you can still find it here and it's the best place yet BAR NONE TO GET IT.. Lets not lose sight of it.. I hear what you are saying I respect an understand what you are saying, I agree with what you are saying ..But I don't understand why you are saying it.. Just sayin!! Are you labeling me? Am I one of those who judge?

[AmandaJean]

Lucy,

I don't understand what you are asking me.

What I wrote was a thought I had and shared. If it fits and works for you... that's great. If it doesn't, don't give it another thought.

But why would I "label" you? I don't know you.

How would I know if you are a person who judges? Again I don't know you.

Isn't that the point of what I wrote? So often we apply a negative label or judge ourselves or others. The worst part is it's often done harshly. At times well meaning people say things that are hurtful, not asking questions or taking the time to understand, before labeling, judging and condemning.

When this happens it's gets easier to feel that we are doing something "wrong".

My thought is crossdressing is beautiful. It makes me happy, so I shall continue to do it.

Amanda

[Beverley Sims]

Totally agree I think of the artistic presentation all the time.

[Robbin_Sinclair]

What is it that we do exactly? We dress to look like a person of the opposite gender. And why has the label Crossdresser (or insert any label here) come to describe what you do?

I hate the term crossdresser. It's so judgmental. Lesbian, gay even transexual are names for people. Crossdresser is a name for what a person does. Our own identity suggests only the act. It's like calling LGBT deviants.

We cross dress. That's all that seems important. I wish we could change it but it can never happen. It is our label. Black people were allowed to change their label. Even gays. Not us. Or can we?

...and Beverely writes: Totally agree I think of the artistic presentation all the time. Dear, every thing about your is an artistic presentation. This is abundantly clear in your writing. You have a gift.

[Jenny Doolittle]

Very interesting perspective Amanda, My wife is an artist and I think I may use your statement as a way of trying to have her understand just a little bit easier.

I do believe that many labels were intended to be hurtful or others very clinical in nature to describe what we are to the rest of society. It is really much much more then just how we look or present to others, it is that feeling that we have inside as we paint that canvas of ourselves, or mould the forum with corset and padding.

Yes I love the way you present the idea of who we are, I only wish I looked more like Botticelli's "The Venus" then in do GrandMa Moses.

[Deedee Skyblue]

:Peace:the problem with labels is that they become an excuse for not thinking, and assuming that everyone in the labeled group is the same - and then treating everyone in the labeled group the same. 'All blacks vote democratic', 'all republicans are at war with women', 'all crossdressers are gay', 'all <group> are stupid/intolerant/ignorant/evil'. There is no group of people, even as small a group as a pair of identical twins, who are identical in their thinking, personality, behavior, looks.

There is no excuse for not thinking for yourself. If you depend on other people, or labels, to do your thinking for you, you are going to be wrong, a lot of the time, and you will rarely learn anything new.

It's one of the life lessons that crossdressers.com reinforced for me, as I began to question some of the reasoning behind the labels I used. After reading posts from people I used to perceive as being very different from me, I find we usually share a lot of maybe not as visible similarities.

Sorry for preaching - I feel very strongly about this!

Deedee :Peace:

[Donna Joanne]

Labels are for canned vegetables...and everyone knows we are "fruits"...LoL... Just a little bit of humor.

You are who you are. If you are John who becomes Jane when you put on a dress, that's great for you. If you are Jane that is always Jane no matter what you have on or what name (John) people call you, that is great for you as well. My point is, what difference does it make? You are still you, and until you accept who you are, you will never obtain the validation you seek from others.

I must be getting old, cause that sounds a whole lot like what people have been telling me all of my life...

[Ressie]

Interesting thoughts. I can relate to art and acting. People will put their own label on others to keep their brain from being confused. "Is that a man or a woman? I just have to know the answer." The answer of "both" doesn't enter into many minds.

[Rachel Flowers]

Labels are a useful shortcut, they're how the brain works. We "tag" everything. Like in a tag cloud, the tags thet get used more often get bigger. But labels are not real, and people use the same label to tag different things.

[Kate Simmons]

We are like sculptors. The piece of art is already in the stone. We just bring it out. :)

[NicoleScott]

Sorry, not buying it. We don't crossdress in pursuit of art. We're driven internally, although the drives are different for us, but calling it something other than what it is won't change it. Fashion and makeup do have artistic aspects to crossdressing, but CDing isn't art at its core.

[AmandaJean]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

It's so interesting to read the different ways people interpret what you write.

And Nicole, you mentioned buying?? Where? Is there a sale?? LOL

[carhill2mn]

I think of myself as playing the role of a woman to the best of my ability. Therefore, I am an actor of sorts even though I am not doing it for the sake of art. Like any good actor, I have been preparing for my role as a woman by studying women and practicing how to look like, sound like and act like a woman.

Strangely, humans seem to need to be able to categorize or label nearly everything. Perhaps, it is a perceived need for order in life. Unfortunately, labels of any kind cannot accurately describe everyone as there are so many variations. Maybe it is because it is easier to refer to a group name that generally describes the members of that group than to try to describe every individual.

The term "crossdresser" does not adequately describe most people lumped into that group (although I prefer that term to transvestite). A geat many of us are interested in more than just wearing women's clothes. In my case, I am also trying to emulate women, even though I have no desire to make changes that would make me physically more like a genetic woman.

My point is that we make such generalizations all of the time. Saying that an animal is a "dog" or a "cat" does not tell you very much about that individual dog or cat. It does, however, give you a starting point that narrows down the possibilities of what that animal is.

[Rachel Flowers]

There is a BIG difference Carole, as I'm sure you appreciate, in that there are no animals that are part dog and part cat (Except in cartoons). This is the big problem with gender to my mind: people in general assume that veryone is EITHER a man or a woman and that there are no inbetween or combined positions on that scale. We are all of us living proof that not only are the people between "man" and "woman" but that we're all totally different in how we combine aspects of the two.

We'll never stop people using labels (even crossdressers use them; in their desire to please wives, therapists or surgeons, I've read CDs even on here castigating others for not being "proper" CDs) because it's how the human brain functions. It's an evolutionary necessity for survival that we can identify friend or foe, mate or meat, and we're all of us hardwired to do that so it requires effort to suspend those judgements.

And a friend of mine insists she is a TV, not a CD, despite the Rocky Horror associations. I think she is "reclaiming" the word in the same way some black musicians are trying to reclaim the "n" word.

[Lucy_Bella]

Lucy,

I don't understand what you are asking me.

What I wrote was a thought I had and shared. If it fits and works for you... that's great. If it doesn't, don't give it another thought.

But why would I "label" you? I don't know you.

How would I know if you are a person who judges? Again I don't know you.

Isn't that the point of what I wrote? So often we apply a negative label or judge ourselves or others. The worst part is it's often done harshly. At times well meaning people say things that are hurtful, not asking questions or taking the time to understand, before labeling, judging and condemning.


I meant no harm...I thought that was what I did..Ask questions.. With life there are Critics same goes with art.. No offensive intended..

[marlenesexton]

Labels are great for categorizing things and people, though sometimes they are unfair or have unfair implications (like crossdressers must also be gay). With out them it would be difficult to function or relate ideas. My problem with labels is they are for groups not individuals and too often they come to define a person entirely. We all fit into many groups and have many labels, not just crossdresser. It is accurate but it shouldn't define us. For some of us it does, we have immersed ourselves in our dressing and it is one of or the single major component of who we are and how we define ourselves. Fro most of us, it is just one part of us. We are so much more, as are all people, than what a single label implies.

[flatlander_48]

We should think in terms of Identity and not labels. Labels are essentially benign, but we often misuse the concept to make a point or cast aspersions. On the other hand, our Identity reflects to how we define ourselves. I identify as a crossdresser and a bisexual. That's it; no more, no less. It's better when we define ourselves rather than allow someone else to do it. It's like letting someone else pick you clothes, sight unseen...

[Leah Lynn]

The labels are the "Short Answer" to the question, "What are you?" No one expects the half hour dissertation on what you percieve yourself as. I know how I define myself to myself, but who the hell wants to listen to it? Short answer; "I'm TG. Like it, or not."

To me, I'm an artist as well. Makeup is an art, sculpting and dressing is an art, going out is a live performance.

Let us just "know" that we are all individuals, in this together, All different; Standing together!

Leah

[MarinaKirax]

Labels are good. Like someone else said, they are shortcuts. By just using 1 or 2 words, you and I can pretty much know exactly what we are talking about - without having to define and clarify the playing field before every conversation.

The problem, and the bad side of labels, is when the same label means different things to different people. Or when too many different things are included in the same label. But I cant really expect the general population to understand the difference between a crossdresser who is a fetishist; simply turned on by wearing womens clothing (reaching a climax and then often feeling shame), versus one who has an attraction to seeing themselves as a female, who dresses suggestively, stilettos and micro minis, tries to pass, may even fantasize about being with a male (but wouldn't actually seal the deal) but who remains heterosexual, versus someone who is truly transgendered and identifies fully and needs to present fully as female (and who would wear sweatpants and a tshirt and feel female, all the time and without sexual stimulation.)

Everyone in the world should be expected to know those differences? I wish, but I won't hold my breath. I accept that all those ladies mentioned above will be referred to either, kindly, as transgendered, or colloquially, as transvestites or crossdressers. I'd rather at least facilitate the conversation, and be more gradually accepted, as gays and lesbians have been, than shutting down the conversation by arguing definitions.

I haven't thought of myself as a performance artist, because the spectacle I create is just for me. I love the way I look as a woman, and if there were no mirrors I'm not sure I would continue dressing. Passing, for me, is another form of mirror. I don't need to confirm my femininity by looking, if someone else treats me as female. The everyone on the street is my "Mirror, Mirror" . Their non-staring (when it happens) is my confirmation. Yes, I create a picture show. But I'm the audience, all the time. That help, hon? MK

[Asche]

Sometimes it feels that labels are used so we don't need to tax our brain too much. It's so much easier to label something so we can place it into a "box" that makes sense to us. Once in that "box" it's easier to decide if we can like what we've labeled or if we hate it.
E.g., if someone else has dark skin and/or some West African features, we can stuff him/her into the box labelled [epithet deleted] and assume (s)he is: stupid; incapable of morality; lazy; etc. FSM forbid we should actually find out in detail what they're really like, better to make a snap judgement based on a few highly visible characteristics.

Or, if it's a label you apply to yourself, you view it as a sort of tribal identity and do your best to take on all the characteristics and behaviors you associate with it. I have the distinct impression that a lot of CDers are like that (well, a lot of humans are like that.) Once they decide they are "CDers", they run around finding out how CDers are supposed to act, what they're supposed to like, etc., and try to live up to what they see as "how CDers are."


No matter how another person sorts these labels, it's how you feel about it that's truly important and not the label itself.
Unless, of course, the majority of people around you sorts your label into a box that is designated for discrimination and harrassment.

Or merely treats you in a way that is not actually appropriate for you (and may harm you) because they stuffed you into a label that also gets applied to people for whom it might be appropriate.


We dress to look like a person of the opposite gender.
Which "we" is this? For many of the posters here, this is not true. People labelled "male" may dress (or otherwise "present") in ways that society labels "female" for many different reasons.

Or is this statement intended to limit your "we" to those for whom it is true? (In which case I suppose those here who don't fit this statement should just skip the entire thread.)

[Lucy_Bella]

Which "we" is this? For many of the posters here, this is not true. People labelled "male" may dress (or otherwise "present") in ways that society labels "female" for many different reasons.

Or is this statement intended to limit your "we" to those for whom it is true? (In which case I suppose those here who don't fit this statement should just skip the entire thread.)

This is true and if I shook a stick at every time some one said "we" ..." We" could offend others that do not fit the definition of "we"( which is why the grouping is important) ..The assumption that because we all dress in the opposite clothing automatically assumes "we" are all the same..Which is far from the truth ..

Example : We tend to dress to express/look like the gender we was opposite born as.. Not true ! There are people on this site who simply dress not for an expression but to match the gender they should have been born as and are at all times, opposite of birth..

So it would be fair to say that "Us TG's ( a group) tend to dress to express the gender we feel we want to present as at this time.. Now a T.S. would understand that you was speaking for a group and not as a whole.. I am not out to point fingers these are simple mistakes that maybe understanding from both sides should need..

I have been guilty of such actions myself..I assumed that cd was it's own group because so many prefer that name over the clinical ( and still do) but it's not the proper name to use for any thread expressing the group I fit in best to use "we" or "us" in.. I automatically assumed every group knew that I was in reference to the group I fit in ( festish) ..

So ( from a past thread) instead of using "Cross-Dressers tend to dress trashy" and get eyes rolled over that statement .. I will say "TF's tend to dress trashy" ..I think personally that if we all identified ourselves in our prospective groups everybody else will get a better understanding in the long run..

[flatlander_48]

Example : We tend to dress to express/look like the gender we was opposite born as.. Not true ! There are people on this site who simply dress not for an expression but to match the gender they should have been born as and are at all times, opposite of birth..

To my perspective, all crossdressing means is that ones external presentation is opposite ones physical reality. It makes no implications as to why this situation exists or what the driver is. When you speak of a mismatch between physical reality and psychological reality, that's another level of detail.

[flatlander_48]

E.g., if someone else has dark skin and/or some West African features, we can stuff him/her into the box labelled [epithet deleted] and assume (s)he is: stupid; incapable of morality; lazy; etc. FSM forbid we should actually find out in detail what they're really like, better to make a snap judgement based on a few highly visible characteristics.

There's a difference between having or being given a piece of information and distorting it to fit a desired conclusion. It's not the fault of the information. The blame falls squarely on whoever sees that information through the filter of their own prejudices.

[Lucy_Bella]

To my perspective, all crossdressing means is that ones external presentation is opposite ones physical reality. It makes no implications as to why this situation exists or what the driver is. When you speak of a mismatch between physical reality and psychological reality, that's another level of detail.

Absolutely!

But lets not forget we tend to speak of Cross-Dressing and issues from it at levels of detail..This is at no fault of anyone, like so many others I come here to learn and that is what I did, learn ( and still learning ) that some details of discussion can and do offend others by wording.. I.E....I know that other Cders do not tend to dress "trashy" but I left out that detail..

Excellent Point though!!:)

[AmyGaleRT]

I don't know that I have any good answers. I only have my perspective to work from, which may be as biased, or inaccurate, or just plain wrong as anyone else's.

I do like the idea of "sculptor, painter, actor, artist, etc." but of course it's not merely art for art's sake, but art in the sake of a higher calling. In my own case, it's the recognition that part of my soul is female, and the "artistry" involved is that required to give this forty-mumble year old male body an external appearance that matches, or at least approximates to a reasonable degree, that piece of my soul, so she can have her chance to go into the world and be a woman, insofar as possible. Other people may, indeed will, feel differently. There are approximately as many reasons guys crossdress as there are crossdressers. :)

Since the human mind has trouble comprehending large numbers of individuals and their individual situations, we tend to group them and apply labels to entire groups. In some cases, we break those groups into smaller groups and apply labels to those, or combine groups into larger groups and apply labels to those. It's part of what helps us adapt to new situations, by letting us tie them easily to situations we already know, so it's part of human nature. Like many parts of human nature, it can be used for good or ill; an example of the latter would be negative racial stereotypes.

A distinction might be drawn between the labels we apply to ourselves and the labels others apply to us. The former will carry more weight, as long as we are reasoning from correct principles and meanings. Now, I will sometimes wear clothing that is traditionally associated with the gender that is not the one I was born as, this makes me a crossdresser, by the exact definition. The technical definition of transvestite also applies (that being the Latin transliteration of "crossdresser"); however, modern usage of that term tends to restrict it to those who dress primarily out of a sexual need or fetish, which might have described me once but doesn't do so now. (Important concept here: Our definitions and labels that we apply to ourselves can change over time, both as a result of changes in our own opinion and wider changes in the accepted meaning of terms.) Given my feelings of having a part-female soul, the label bi-gendered might also apply to me, which further moves me into the overarching category labeled transgendered. (That category overlaps with "crossdresser" but is not a strict superset.) Lastly, definitions also allow for the possibility of exclusion as well as inclusion, by allowing us to identify what we're not. For example, I do not have feelings of being "a woman born in the wrong body," nor do I have any real desire to fully transition into the female role, so I do not fall under the label of transsexual. Likewise, the label drag queen does not apply, as I am neither homosexual nor an entertainer, as that term implies.

Others might reason differently, and I may wind up being called names of all sorts, due to other people's differences in definitions, or outright invalid stereotypes that they hold (e.g. "All crossdressers are gay," which is demonstrably untrue). To this, I try to apply the principle given by a character in one of Robert Heinlein's stories, paraphrased thus: When someone else calls you something, they are making a verbal noise with their mouth. If you are not the thing they have called you, the noise is meaningless. If, however, you are the thing they have called you, you are neither more nor less that thing by virtue of them having made that noise.

Sorry, don't know why I decided to wax so philosophical all of a sudden. :)

- Amy

[Wildaboutheels]

I'll tell you why labels are silly.

Once I decide to leave my house and "go somewhere", I can and DO "dress" fully in 2 minutes or less, regardless of male OR female mode. Now IF I decide to TUCK [my shirt in[ which is rare btw, It might take another minute. Brushing my teeth and hair might take another couple of minutes.

There are many folks here [some who are firmly rooted in their closet/s] who will proclaim I am a "bad" CD or that I am doing it "wrong". Maybe that would make me a abCDDiW? [a bad CD Doing it Wrong]

Have probably been out a thousand times in the last 12 years and not had even ONE problem, so clearly I am NOT "doing it wrong" or one of those "Nice Society people" would have accosted me with their clubs and pitchforks and tried to cure me.

I'm just a Human which I find accurate and befitting. Or how about HJDC? He Just Doesn't Care? Or maybe MD? Minimalist Dresser?

As long as I am not breaking any laws, I will wear what I like.

[Deedee Skyblue]

I just realized that there IS a label for me that I'm comfortable with - 'member of crossdressers.com'. It says nothing about my dressing habits, my gender expression or my sexuality; what it does says is that I am interested enough in the subject of crossdressing to join (not just read) an online forum of other people who are also willing to self-identify as 'members of crossdressers.com'.

Deedee