Why is it?

[Sharon B.]

Why is it Ok for a girl to be label a Tom-Boy
But a boy is labeled a sissy if he doesn't act the male is suppose to be?

[Kera_dove]

:) I dont like the term sissy I'm a Jane-Girl

:be: ~Kera

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Why is it Ok for a girl to be label a Tom-Boy
But a boy is labeled a sissy if he doesn't act the male is suppose to be?
I think the answer is quite complicated but I would say the simplified one is that we actually devalue anything female, in general. Consider, "you're such a grrl", "he screamed like a little grrl" "take it like a man (implying taking it like a woman would be undeseriable)" "she drives like a woman (or he)" "what are you going to cry??!? (taunting someone for showing emotion with the overtone of it's unmanly)", etc. etc.... Again, things that are manly/male are valued in our society; generally things that are womanly/female are not valued.

Kew's-2-cents

[Julie York]

Despite all the PC stuff...


It is 'cute' to pretend to be in a position for power when you aren't.

But it is 'offensive' to be in a position of power and technically throw it away.


In this day and age it is not necessarilly right. But it is perceived that way.



Yes, it is complicated but I'm right.
Women are more accepting because you came to their side.
Men are more abusive because you absconded from their side.



OOh what Kew said! Just read it. Yeah...that too.

[Rachel Morley]

Both Kew and Julie are right. It's all about the (wrong) premise that if a guy acts non-manly then he's acting like a woman, and therefore "lowering his status" in the eyes of other men (and some women).

Agree with me or not, but IMHO the only way we cders will truly become accepted is when women have equality (or even superiority) with/over men in the world.

[ChristineRenee]

Both Kew and Julie are right. It's all about the (wrong) premise that if a guy acts non-manly then he's acting like a woman, and therefore "lowering his status" in the eyes of other men (and some women).

Agree with me or not, but IMHO the only way we cders will truly become accepted is when women have equality (or even superiority) with/over men in the world.Totally agree with you Angel...I've thought this for years!;)

[Dana]

From "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex, and Women Don't Get Enough Love" by Jonathan Kramer PhDm and Diane Dunaway

"This answer (To Why Men are Men and Women are Women?) lies buried in the deep past, in a time more than six thousand years go when men and women lived at peace with each other in relatively equal relationships, probally before this male "tradition" of DENYING emotions, particuarly tender emotions, had been established.

As we said earlier, it was the introduction of violence that radically altered the human condition. This violence came about when mankind shifted away from hunting and gathering and developed agriculture.

As these early people learned to grow and harvest crops they settled the most fertile lands along the lakes and rivers in the areas that are now Greece, Italy, and other parts of Euorpe. For at least a thousand years, they lived in relative peace and prosperity. until they discovered that unlike their earlier nomadic way of life, the cultivation of crops brought forth a whole new type of human behavior ~ organized large scale violence.

The violence came in waves beginning at least six thousand years ago as hordes of Kurgans and other tribes swept down from the North, riding horses that they had dosmiscated for War, and carrying battle axes and doublt edge swords they had fashioned from metal.

This Kurgan violence was the BEGINNING of a total reshaping of human civiliazation! Why? Because now, in order to survive, these peaceful, caring, nurturing, loving men were force to learn to kill or be killed. This is a fact that changed man's relationship with himself and his emotions, particularly his tender emotions. Women on the other hand, faced their own tradedy as they found their periviously equal realtionships with me, falling away before the new necessity to have a male protector at ANY cost. Suddenly having a male protector was a matter of life or death.

This shift away from peace and toward violence and female enslavement took man even futher away from his connection to his inner world. Now, instead of power being measured by one's ability to give life, as it had been earlier in the peaceful goddess culture, power was measured by one's ability to take life. The power to give and protect life had been supplanted by the power to kill.

Now th strongest men ~ those capable of violence ~ and therefore less compassionate and emotionally vulnerable ~ assumed leadership. Women being generally smaller, physically weaker, and responsible for the children ~ had to be protected. Now a man might do without a woman, but a woman could no lnger survice by herself.

In a violent world, a man must be prepared EMOTIONALLY to think clearly and logically even in the heat of battle. He must, for instance be able to see a fellow combatant ~ a brother ~ a neighbor ~ a friend ~ a cousin ~ a father ~ DIE! he must experience this without losing contol. This is essential since any un-controlled response such as panic or untempered fury might pose a threat not ONLY to himself but to his fellow warriors lives. If enough warriors lose their wits, the battle is lost ~ if the battle is lost ~ the war is lost! If the war is lost ~ ALL is lost!"

Therefore it is permissibale for a woman to become an Amazon ~ in Western Judeo ~ Christian life ~ but the reverse is not true for me!

[Deborah_UK]

not totally related to this topic, but I was listening to a radio show the other day, it was a comedy programme and the show was about relationships, using clips from different comedians to make the points - one sketch was a comic saying something like,

what is it about coming home and finding your girlfriend/wife wearing your shirt, or pajama top or favourite sweater, and when you ask why they say its to feel close to you, I love to have your smell around me when you're not here, and you tell people and everyone nods and say yes, I can relate to that etc .......... but the other way round, if she comes home and finds you .........

the sketch continued briefly - but I can't remember the rest of it, but I think it echoes the original post slightly of how society perceives the different gender roles

[Helen MC]

Very true. Whatever the PC Lobby may think and even despite various Laws this is still a Man's World!

The culture still puts Boys above Girls and stereotyping begins in infancy. A little girl will be the apple of Daddy's eye if she is soft and feminine but equally a "Tom Boy" is acceptable, she can help Mummy do the washing, cooking, housework, etc but is also quite welcome to help Dad with the car or in the garden or even with a bit of DIY. If a boy wants to help Mum with the cooking, perhaps even doing a bit a sewing, doing the weekly laundry then he is a cissy , a wimp, he is "girly".

In my teens I used to help Mum with the weekly washing, I really enjoyed hanging out the bras, knickers, stockings and other female clothing on the line, especially as I had secretly worn some of those very panties in the previous week . My father wasn't very keen on this, and used to say "That's women's work!"! but my Mum put her foot down and said, "If the lad wants to help me with the laundry then you leave him alone!" and he didn't interfere any further.

I assume this is all bound up in heredity, property, even Titles etc. A Boy carries the family name, (Titles, Estate), etc in our culture, a girl loses it when she marries although some ordinary couples are now copying the Aristocracy and joining both family names with a hyphen e.g. "Brown-Cooper" as their new surname and that of any children they may subsequently have. Men also expect their sons to be "chips off the old block" and their daughters to be little doll versions of his Wife-their Mother, so a boy who takes after his Mummy (Mommy) as I have done to a great deal in my life is NOT what was wanted.

[Crystal Harmony]

Beats the hell out of me:werd:

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Very true. Whatever the PC Lobby may think and even despite various Laws this is still a Man's World!

The culture still puts Boys above Girls and stereotyping begins in infancy. A little girl will be the apple of Daddy's eye if she is soft and feminine but equally a "Tom Boy" is acceptable, she can help Mummy do the washing, cooking, housework, etc but is also quite welcome to help Dad with the car or in the garden or even with a bit of DIY. If a boy wants to help Mum with the cooking, perhaps even doing a bit a sewing, doing the weekly laundry then he is a cissy , a wimp, he is "girly".

In my teens I used to help Mum with the weekly washing, I really enjoyed hanging out the bras, knickers, stockings and other female clothing on the line, especially as I had secretly worn some of those very panties in the previous week . My father wasn't very keen on this, and used to say "That's women's work!"! but my Mum put her foot down and said, "If the lad wants to help me with the laundry then you leave him alone!" and he didn't interfere any further.

I assume this is all bound up in heredity, property, even Titles etc. A Boy carries the family name, (Titles, Estate), etc in our culture, a girl loses it when she marries although some ordinary couples are now copying the Aristocracy and joining both family names with a hyphen e.g. "Brown-Cooper" as their new surname and that of any children they may subsequently have. Men also expect their sons to be "chips off the old block" and their daughters to be little doll versions of his Wife-their Mother, so a boy who takes after his Mummy (Mommy) as I have done to a great deal in my life is NOT what was wanted.

And the taking of her husband's name was in part a sign of ownership.

[SandraInHose]

I think the answer is quite complicated but I would say the simplified one is that we actually devalue anything female, in general. Consider, "you're such a grrl", "he screamed like a little grrl" "take it like a man (implying taking it like a woman would be undeseriable)" "she drives like a woman (or he)" "what are you going to cry??!? (taunting someone for showing emotion with the overtone of it's unmanly)", etc. etc.... Again, things that are manly/male are valued in our society; generally things that are womanly/female are not valued.

Kew's-2-cents


I agree wholeheartedly. It's like if you say 'I'm just a man', meaning I, as one man, can only accomplish so much by myself, and am capable of handling a certain amount of tasks. However, if someone says 'she's just a girl', it connotates weakness, inferiority, and sounds more like an excuse as to why something cannot been done.

On the other hand, we as a society equate objects we adore such as our boats, ships, cars, etc, as 'she', along with the fury of 'Mother Nature'.

[Stormgirl]

I'd like all those bad ass people that call me a sissy go through Ranger school,yeah that will shut them up.Sorry just a little angry rant. I hate society sometimes.

[Stormgirl]

:) I dont like the term sissy I'm a Jane-Girl

:be: ~Kera


I hate the term "nancy boy" worse :thumbsdn:

[Maria D]

If society devalues anything feminine, why are females 'allowed' to be masculine? Surely women should be kept in their place, and act like women? Certainly, men are not allowed to act like girls, there is an expectation to act in a certain way.

I don't, btw, agree with this bias, and (though I am now transitioning) I found it very hard to live to society's expectations of me as 'being a man'. I think people should be allowed to be the people they are, but society seems to prefer to keep people where they can be identified, and probably controlled, men and women. That's why I find tom-boys interesting, perhaps the fact that it's 'allowed' bodes well for the future.

I don't agree with the whole 'we used to be peaceful' thing though Dana, sorry. All nature is violent, and we never were different. Cats are, wolves are, birds are, chimps are (hell, they eat meat), and we wouldn't be where we are now if we weren't. I'd be totally amazed if we evolved in a world of violence, our common human-chimp ancestor probably being violent, and we were proto-hippies. Especially given that our digestion is designed to easily eat meat.
I'd go as far as to say that being able to strongly compete in any arena is paramount to survival and, were we not, we would not have survived.

PS Aubrey: Nancy boy? Do people still say that? Eek that's horrid!

Take care
Maria
xxx

[Shelly2069]

[QUOTE=KewTnCurvy GG]I think the answer is quite complicated but I would say the simplified one is that we actually devalue anything female, in general. Consider, "you're such a grrl", "he screamed like a little grrl" "take it like a man (implying taking it like a woman would be undeseriable)" "she drives like a woman (or he)" "what are you going to cry??!? (taunting someone for showing emotion with the overtone of it's unmanly)", etc. etc.... Again, things that are manly/male are valued in our society; generally things that are womanly/female are not valued.

I hope the world isn't like your saying. If there are a few knuckle dragging people out there, their time is limited for sure. I've worked with women in top positions at different companies and there not viewed as light weights.

I think society reinforces the standard male role with short 90 minute macho movies. Tv does the same thing. Even our government is afraid to let gay couples marry, muchless ever consider transgender support.

Than again, many people can't even get past skin color. Hell, we're doomed, Charlie Brown.

Trying to unmake a zillion years of tradition means change is very slow.
WW2 got millions of women into the workforce. Had that not happened how would our society look today?

[gennee]

I think much has to do with how men are socialized. Some activities are considered male while others are female. Cooking, ironing and cleaning house are considered woman's work, but I have been doing it since I was a child. Women have more variety, while men can be bland. I have always felt comfortable around women and being a CD has gotten me in tune with my feminine side. For that, I am not ashamed or embarassed.

Gennee :rose2:

[Sarahgurl371]

I'd like all those bad ass people that call me a sissy go through Ranger school,yeah that will shut them up.Sorry just a little angry rant. I hate society sometimes.

Aubrey,
I like your style!:thumbsup: I have a couple of friends who were special forces and the thought of them kicking some A## in a dress is great.:)

What an awsome quote!

[Dragster]

not totally related to this topic, but I was listening to a radio show the other day, it was a comedy programme and the show was about relationships, using clips from different comedians to make the points - one sketch was a comic saying something like,

what is it about coming home and finding your girlfriend/wife wearing your shirt, or pajama top or favourite sweater, and when you ask why they say its to feel close to you, I love to have your smell around me when you're not here, and you tell people and everyone nods and say yes, I can relate to that etc .......... but the other way round, if she comes home and finds you .........

the sketch continued briefly - but I can't remember the rest of it, but I think it echoes the original post slightly of how society perceives the different gender roles

Deborah, Helen Boyd makes exactly the same quote at the beginning of the first chapter of her book "My Husband Betty". Maybe the scriptwriter of this sketch had read the book, and perhaps not just for research to write the sketch!

Tony