All Alone

[Veronica27]

Around the beginning of this year, I made a decision to refrain from any crossdressing activity, including visiting any internet discussion sites, or shopping for clothing, for the next three or four months. My decision was predicated by my growing sense of frustration with the whole transgender movement and a feeling that I was once again alone in the world as the only guy who did what I was doing. I wanted to just have some time to clear my mind of all my frustrations and devote my thoughts to my other interests in life.

Cycles of activity/inactivity have always been normal for me, but this was somewhat different. The length of abstinence was becoming much longer than I had anticipated, and I seldom had any thoughts about crossdressing at all. When it did cross my mind, it was simply to wonder why I was losing interest in something that had always occupied such a large part of my thoughts, and provided me with so much enjoyment.

So a few weeks ago, on a rainy day when nothing much was doing, I dug out some of my femme items and made a conscious decision to wear them while I sat around not doing much. I then decided that I should check in on some of my old internet haunts to see if there was anything new going on. Nope! Same old, same old stuff. Interspersed among all the posts about such important issues as "If there was a magic pill...." etc., were a few intellectually challenging posts dealing with issues that affect our ability to be understood and accepted by society, which should be our primary concern. Unfortunately, most responses are very subjective and simply state the posters own personal take on things or get into debates about labels and the degree of hatred of them. These posts are then usually closed with comments such as "this is getting monotonous".

So why do these topics create such an ambiguous love-hate situation over things that should be of great interest to us, even to the extent of taking time to post that they are not even interested in the topic? The obvious example of this is the subject of labels. Without labels it is impossible to have a meaningful discussion about anything. However, when we extend that to the application of labels to individuals we create serious problems. Labels can be degrading and hurtful. Even when they are well meaning and describe a good quality to possess, they can still be very limiting and can tend to overpower other, more descriptive qualities that we possess. They tend to draw attention to that one fact which by itself can never fully describe any individual.

What should we, as members of this community, call ourselves? It doesn't matter as we are all individuals and are entitled to our own views and opinions. What should the community collectively call us? This is where the problem arises. Despite attempts to create an "umbrella" term, no single word can satisfy such diverse views and opinions, not to mention how diverse our involvement can be.

It is not my intention to allow this post to degenerate into a meaningless argument about whether we are transgendered or crossdressers, but rather to point out some of the considerations that always fail to enter into such arguments. All labels do not take on the same form. Some of them, when applied to individuals are in the nature of a condition, and apply regardless of how that condition might affect the person's activities, lifestyle, well-being and so on. When you apply such a term to an individual you are saying that that is what he is and not what he does. An example would be he is left-handed. Other labels are oriented more toward what people do. In these cases the emphasis is on the activity and not on the individual. An example would be golf. If you golf, you are a golfer. It says little about you other than the fact that you sometimes play golf.

So why is this distinction important? Every label carries with it certain images, false stereotypes, superstitions, myths along with some basic facts. When a label is a condition, the public sees all of those images, stereotyopes etc. as applying to the individual, but when the label refers to an activity, all those images and myths apply to the activity. Our primary concern should be the promotion of understanding of who we are and what we do, followed by the use of that understanding to create acceptance. The labels we use to describe both ourselves and our activities should be chosen very carefully because of the message they impart about us both individually and collectively. It can be much more than whether you think TG or CD sounds better. Neither word adequately describes all of us, or what all of us do. I am not sure that such a label could ever exist.

I am beginning to think that all of us really are the only guy in the world who does this and that there is no "community" at all.



Veronica

[Sister Rachel]

"Our primary concern should be the promotion of understanding of who we are and what we do, followed by the use of that understanding to create acceptance."

Ummm .. My primary concern is to hang out in cyberspace with other crossdressers ( a very wide spectrum in itself) for a bit of fun and a chat, not join a pressure group thanks! :Peace:

[Annaliese2010]

I am beginning to think that all of us really are the only guy in the world who does this and that there is no "community" at all.Veronica "guy" ???????? huh?! ohhh baby...no wonder u feel as u do. "guy"? I do NOT feel myself to be a "guy". If YOU do I feel soo sorry for you.

And like BTW...omg yech.

(nothin personal, it's just I cannot comprehend ANYONE who has a guy-like mentality - but that's MY pov - don't mean to be dissn u, HUNNY)

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Veronica, I can't ever remember a time when I didn't want to dress some nights I'm just too tired but I still want to dress.

I think that there two kinds of people on this forum , Like minded people that love crossdressing in one way or another & Lurkers
you are either on board with us or you will be left at the station after the train leaves.

[Sonya]

I find it very hard to explain anyone about myself, and i agree with you that the labels make everything much more complicated. It seems to me that is really hard to get the community together to agree on certain issues. Basically what ever labels we use, we all participate on the activity of __________________ that the main stream society do not understand and the activity of _______________ is unusual. I am not sure how accurate is to call this activity CROSS DRESSING but it seems like the best we have (hence the title of this forum).

Veronica, I think i understand where you are coming from and I agree with most of your thoughts, i hope collectively we can all explore this more.

[Veronica27]

Ummm .. My primary concern is to hang out in cyberspace with other crossdressers ( a very wide spectrum in itself) for a bit of fun and a chat, not join a pressure group thanks! :Peace:

I see that as more of a desire or ambition, than a concern. Nothing wrong with that. Crossdressing should be about socializing and having fun, but I get the feeling that the "pressure groups" are getting way too serious about defining rights and promoting identity issues. The topic of my thread was "all alone" and dealt with the sense of alienation I am feeling with the direction that our self-appointed spokespeople are heading in. Like you I have no desire to join a pressure group.



"guy" ???????? huh?! ohhh baby...no wonder u feel as u do. "guy"? I do NOT feel myself to be a "guy". If YOU do I feel soo sorry for you.

And like BTW...omg yech.

(nothin personal, it's just I cannot comprehend ANYONE who has a guy-like mentality - but that's MY pov - don't mean to be dissn u, HUNNY)

How totally misandric of you.



Hi Veronica, I can't ever remember a time when I didn't want to dress some nights I'm just too tired but I still want to dress.

I think that there two kinds of people on this forum , Like minded people that love crossdressing in one way or another & Lurkers
you are either on board with us or you will be left at the station after the train leaves.


I like to watch trains leaving the station and take pictures if I remember my camera. Never combined it with crossdressing, although it might be fun to do.




I find it very hard to explain anyone about myself, and i agree with you that the labels make everything much more complicated. It seems to me that is really hard to get the community together to agree on certain issues. Basically what ever labels we use, we all participate on the activity of __________________ that the main stream society do not understand and the activity of _______________ is unusual. I am not sure how accurate is to call this activity CROSS DRESSING but it seems like the best we have (hence the title of this forum).

Veronica, I think i understand where you are coming from and I agree with most of your thoughts, i hope collectively we can all explore this more.

I think the terminology in use confuses others rather than educates them. Each term carries so much baggage because of false stereotypes and untrue myths that crossdressing is very hard to comprehend, even by those involved. When you factor in the wide variety of motivations, practices, intensities and desires, as well as the impact of things like sexuality, marital status, religious beliefs and identities (gender and otherwise), is there actually a community of common concerns or are we simply imposing the standards of one element on everyone.

Veronica

[Jenni Yumiko]

Agreed about analiesses post, misandrc and juvenile.
Now on to real matters at hand.
Everyone is different. Even classifying someone there are different degrees to which you are and again no two people are exactly alike (I think that's the first thing you learn in psych class) that withstanding, yes we are all alone in this group, and who is to say the people on here are even telling the truth? It's the interwebz, and anyone can be anything hidden behind an IP address.
As for community of common concerns, even that has its own idioscryncies, with everyone's situation being just a tad different.
Within said community though, you will find people you can relate to, have sound advice and is in a very near position that you are in, not on all aspects but some, and others in other aspects. I tend to talk to people who present my current situation for my question, with like backgrounds and put the "I don't have that problem" people and just do it, regardless of your personal situation" on ignore. (My ignore list is larger than my friends list) just to cut through the dribble and find "comraderie" within the larger group.
I think I went on a few tangents there but I think you get what I'm saying.

[Amanda M]

Interesting post, Veronica,to which I would add a couple of comments.. Firstly you say you have no intention of allowing this post.... etc. Frankly,. it is not up to you how it might develop, otherwise we would have a dictatorship rather than a forum.

Secondly, you make clear your abhorrence of discussions of, for example, labels - and then go on to do just that.

Thirdly, the use of labels, is not per se, damaging. It is the say in which they are used. Heaven help the colleague who says to me "Oh, you have Mrs P at four o'clock - she's the bi=polar, by thy way".

Finally you seem to suggest that because people views are subjective, they are valueless. What, even yours?

Food for thought?

[Kathy Smith]

What should we, as members of this community, call ourselves?


What's wrong with "human beings"?

I "had a rest" from this particular forum for a while, mostly because of the insistence on trying to apply labels to us. It just got on my nerves. There just ain't no such system of accurately labeling people in general. It doesn't matter how much people go on about it, no-one outside LGBT circles is going to care or even understand. Even those _inside_ LGBT circles sometimes get confused!

We are who we are. :)

[Lucy_Bella]

I am beginning to think that all of us really are the only guy in the world who does this and that there is no "community" at all.



Veronica

Veronica ,

The answers are quite simple" labels work in both directions" they are very much like opinions and everyone as you know" has opinions"..

If being a cross-dresser places you under the TG umbrella than you are automatically labeled...Like it or not and through opinions some do it right while others do it wrong..

We can't all belong under the same label it's impossible to think that because we dress for several different reason that we all should have the same opinions based off of our own experiences .. People get offended, take myself for example I do not like being called a she ! I understand why others do because they present as one ..But for myself I have no desire to been seen outside of my house..

For this reason and many other reasons alienates me from a majority of the TG umbrella.. Why? Because under the TG umbrella we have groups that every form of cross-dressing or the "act of cross dressing" lays.. In these groups we have smaller groups that fit in their prospective groups through the "Gender scale" ..

Take these three groups..

T.S. If you were born male or female and dress opposite of the sex you was born as .You are not considered a cross-dresser you are dressing the Gender that you should have been born as and your "gender scale" is high or full time opposite as what you were born as.. T.G.s can also be at this scale but should not be considered a T.S. for reasons I will mention next.

T.G. If you are born a MALE and present or have urges to present as a FEMALE fulltime/part of the time or rarely.. But also want to keep your male parts but can or will change some of your figure you will fall into the "Gender scale" as low to high( there are many other variations that also apply but for the sake of this thread I will keep it short)

T.F. ( Transvestic Fetism ) Does the act of cross dressing.. Has no clinically proven GID ( Gender Identity Disorders and falls normal to the sex they was born as on the gender scale)..

So as you can see with in these three groups that all fall under the T.G. umbrella there are major differences in the "gender scale" If Cross dressers should fall into a group it would be into a group that best fits their "gender scale" This promotes a better understanding for all under the umbrella..

[ninadiva]

Veronic27, I understand your well thought out post as it echoes many of my feelings. But I have found solace and recognition in our community here. Please continue to contribute. We are all indeed what label we give to ourselves, despite what others may cal us !

[Julie Gaum]

May I intrude to ask one question that is bugging me? What does "misandric" mean as I can't find it anywhere?
Julie (My nom-de-plume label)
American (Misnomer label a it should be North American --- While attending a party in Mexico City I was soundly corrected)
Floridian (Well not really as that appliation applies to Florida born)
Old (Descriptive label that could be in mind and/or body and what age determines that?)
Native Born (Three generations doesn't cut it if you're Native-American or Indian but then from what tribe? Just "Indian" is demeaning.)
Are we having fun yet?

[Princess Grandpa]

Julie I had to look it up. A person who is misandric hates men.

It took me off guard. Heh I don't often have look words up.

[Lucy_Bella]

American (Misnomer label a it should be North American --- While attending a party in Mexico City I was soundly corrected..

Are we having fun yet?

Hahaha ..Let me correct the Mexicans...You are an American that's a fact and lets forget Canada is in North America.. So actually you are an American:D but from the U.S.A. that resides in North America..:heehee: You wouldn't want me to mistake you for a Canadian would ya?

[Beverley Sims]

There is a very singular community apart from the social one that most here do partake in.

[Veronica27]

Agreed about analiesses post, misandrc and juvenile.

Thanks


Everyone is different.

That says it all. Labels, particularly those that state a "condition", have the effect of emphasizing that one condition, even if it is a relatively insignificant part of you. They say "this is what you are", period.


yes we are all alone in this group,

Perhaps we should say we are all unique. I am not feeling quite as alone today.


Interesting post, Veronica,to which I would add a couple of comments.. Firstly you say you have no intention of allowing this post.... etc. Frankly,. it is not up to you how it might develop, otherwise we would have a dictatorship rather than a forum.

Secondly, you make clear your abhorrence of discussions of, for example, labels - and then go on to do just that.

Thirdly, the use of labels, is not per se, damaging. It is the say in which they are used. Heaven help the colleague who says to me "Oh, you have Mrs P at four o'clock - she's the bi=polar, by thy way".

Finally you seem to suggest that because people views are subjective, they are valueless. What, even yours?

Food for thought?

You certainly did provide some food for thought, or at least an incentive to reread what I wrote. As for the dictatorship point, I was referring to keeping my own ramblings on topic, and to my great relief, I see that I used "this post" and not "this thread".

Your second point was a bit more difficult to counter. My objection to discussions about labels was about how they degenerate into arguments about which labels are best or generalized statements that all labels are hated, and not that labels are not a legitimate topic in and of themselves. I then attempted to point out the importance of labels for discussion purposes, and mentioned that there are different "types" of labels. It is a bit difficult to discuss a topic like labels in general terms without mentioning specific ones. I guess I fell short in getting my point across on this one.

On your third point, I said that labels "can be" degrading etc., not that they necessarily are. I see little difference between us here.

And finally, in the grand scheme of things, our opinions including my own, don't really have a lot of value. Nobody has ever paid me for mine.

Again, thanks for giving me a reason to exercise the gray matter a bit.


What's wrong with "human beings"?

Nothing at all.


I "had a rest" from this particular forum for a while, mostly because of the insistence on trying to apply labels to us. It just got on my nerves. There just ain't no such system of accurately labeling people in general. It doesn't matter how much people go on about it, no-one outside LGBT circles is going to care or even understand. Even those _inside_ LGBT circles sometimes get confused!

We are who we are. :)

Sounds like what I just went through.



So as you can see with in these three groups that all fall under the T.G. umbrella there are major differences in the "gender scale" If Cross dressers should fall into a group it would be into a group that best fits their "gender scale" This promotes a better understanding for all under the umbrella..

You do not explain why TG should be the umbrella term for everyone when it clearly does not apply to certain sectors. As a label that says what you are as opposed to what you do it can lead to misunderstanding. It is a falsehood for many and for them defies the call to be true to yourself.


Veronic27, I understand your well thought out post as it echoes many of my feelings. But I have found solace and recognition in our community here. Please continue to contribute. We are all indeed what label we give to ourselves, despite what others may cal us !

Thanks for the understanding. My only comment is can't they allow us to speak for ourselves.




Are we having fun yet?

I sure hope so. That's what it should be all about.

Veronica

[Lucy_Bella]

You do not explain why TG should be the umbrella term for everyone when it clearly does not apply to certain sectors. As a label that says what you are as opposed to what you do it can lead to misunderstanding. It is a falsehood for many and for them defies the call to be true to yourself. Veronica

Yes you are correct :).. I didn't because that is a thread within it's self and to be honest I am getting tired of beating a dead horse.. I have many times addressed the Umbrella term TG is not the correct one ..It is misleading but it is favored by popular belief even in the professional field even tho they identify Trans Gender as a specific group..

To make a point ..It's like going to Mexico or Canada and calling them Americans... Their countries are in North America but for some reason they call us in the U.S.A. Americans .. They do not call themselves Americans ..Why? We are all in the same continent ( North America ) Why do they not consider themselves as Americans?

[MissTee]

Funny, but I'm a simple girl. I don't try to analyze or label what we do. We exist as crossdressers and that's it. Different flavors of crossdressers, yes, but still we wear women's clothes and enjoy it. So what. We can grieve that we're not "normal", or just go with it. I like talking about real life scenarios of having fun with it, enjoying life as a CD with a supportive spouse, shopping, and oh my gosh -- cute shoes! Some would thus call me a bimbo because they feel I need a label . . . .

[Tracii G]

We are not a community? I find that an odd statement.
If it looks like one and smells like one there is a good chance it is one.

[Amanda M]

Glad you're feeling better, Veronica.

[mariehart]

I was never offended by labels. Before the advent of the internet I called myself a transvestite, much later a crossdresser and finally transsexual and or transgender. I don't care what I'm called as long as I know what I am. Which finally I do and perhaps that's the answer. Recognise and accept yourself for what you are. Other people's definitions are meaningless.

I think a lot of this is driven by the internet. While there has never been more information available on the subject. Yet we still haven't settled on an overall definition. The Gay community sorted it out a long time ago by simply appropriating the word gay.

When I started crossdressing back in the seventies long before the internet. I had no idea why. There was no Google and the only source of info was tabloid newspapers who ran scandalous stories of trannies or sex changes and the occasional TV programme on the subject. Being a confused teenager, I settled on the then current term transvestite.

Later when I met other transvestites in a sort of club. I realised I was quite different to them. I felt it was a bit of men's club where they happened to dress as women. They noticed too that I was different and commented. I remember my photo being taken. Frankly I was cute. I wish I had that photo now.

Looking back I was being labelled and I labelled them. But I was slow to recognise that there were differences. I also met my first TS. She seemed sad. I labelled her. TS = sad.

But now I'm comfortable with who I am and I don't feel the need to fit in any box. That's my answer.

[dawnmarrie1961]

Veronica, Glad you're back. Yes. I understand your frustration with our community. I get a little frustrated too. Personally I don't like labels but if we really need to pick one that best describes who we are I'd prefer the word "Person" because that is exactly what we are. We are a "person" first and foremost. No different than anyone else. We live. We love. We work. Just like everybody else.
We don't ask for, nor do we require, any special treatment. We don't care if we are called "Sir" or "Madame", male or female,woman or man. Gender doesn't even enter into the equation. It is moot. Doesn't matter. What we want is the freedom to explore our personal identity and to be the kind of person that we want to be. Not who everyone else thinks we should be. This quest for identity is a basic human need. As basic as breathing. Everybody needs to breath in order to continue living.
We simply want to breath.

[Sonya]

I think the terminology in use confuses others rather than educates them. Each term carries so much baggage because of false stereotypes and untrue myths that crossdressing is very hard to comprehend, even by those involved. When you factor in the wide variety of motivations, practices, intensities and desires, as well as the impact of things like sexuality, marital status, religious beliefs and identities (gender and otherwise), is there actually a community of common concerns or are we simply imposing the standards of one element on everyone.

Veronica

Please correct me if I am wrong, I do understand that it is impossible and wrong to use one label (or few different labels) for all of us because of the above reasons. I was excited by your original post because maybe we could all work together in finding a strategy to explain and educate ourselves to the society that most of us are just ordinary human beings and we poses no threat to our fellow human friends. This task is really huge but if it can be done maybe we won’t be so alone and misunderstood.

I can only see one way of achieving this and that is by being out to people but how many of us are prepared to do this??? Our collective community has no boundaries of religion, race, and socioeconomic status, let’s face it we exist and will keep on existing for as long as there is life on this earth. It seems like an impossible task but perhaps one story at a time the message will get across.

love and respect to all.

[Erica2Sweet]

It's a strange irony... we as humans feel the need to stand out and be unique and special amongst the masses, so we knee-jerk by refusing to accept the labels created and implemented by others. Then, we live outside of the rules of the social construct for a time and we suddenly begin to feel lonely and isolated, all because we wholeheartedly refused to accept inclusion into the majority's social structure.

[Karren H]

This isn't really a community..... more a place to come and hear yourself talk... watch yourself type.... what ever.... some days its more like a mutual admiration society.... on good days its quite entertaining.... but I have made some nice friends here and to me that makes it worth the while.... I don't really care if I'm the only guy doing this.... not like I need a community to give me support.... I can support myself.... me and a good bra....

[Wildaboutheels]

Let's face it, Humans ARE social creatures. MOST Humans. Few are willing, able or capable of rowing alone. Some actually prefer it, or find that it works best for THEM. For these type people their name alone is sufficient simply because they do not NEED to "fit in".

Various Forums simply provide a place to witness firsthand, [even if it just words and pictures] the great diversity amongst Humans. THIS Forum is proof enough that if no TWO people here agree on all the various acronyms, is it any wonder, Joe Doe public is pretty clueless?

Just show others, what kind of person you are by how you treat and interact with them and the "sharp ones" will probably figure out that the clothes you are wearing are most likely irrelevant.

So what if some are NOT sharp enough?

[Victoria P]

Hi Veronica sorry to hear of your sad feelings,though I've been trying to make friends on here for ages and for some reason it isn't happening. I do not get into arguments about who and what we are as we are still individuals regardless of how we look, how much clothing or makeup we wear. I too am losing faith in our 'community' at least on this end and I really am a nice person but it seems not to matter, so I lay low on this site and don;t pop in as often as i did.

I hope you find some peace and not worry about what others think as long as you try to be a kind person,

hugs Victoria xo

[Veronica27]

Yes you are correct :).. I didn't because that is a thread within it's self and to be honest I am getting tired of beating a dead horse.. I have many times addressed the Umbrella term TG is not the correct one ..It is misleading but it is favored by popular belief even in the professional field even tho they identify Trans Gender as a specific group..

To make a point ..It's like going to Mexico or Canada and calling them Americans... Their countries are in North America but for some reason they call us in the U.S.A. Americans .. They do not call themselves Americans ..Why? We are all in the same continent ( North America ) Why do they not consider themselves as Americans?

You have described a very interesting and apt analogy. In reality, the U.S.A. does not have a name per se. "The United States of America" tells us what it is and not who it is. It is similar to the term transgender in this regard, and would be akin to Canada calling itself "The Land at the top of North America". Canada and Mexico are names like Lucy Bella or Veronica. Lacking a name, your country has then gone to the next level of identity and generally uses the terms America and Americans. These fit for two reasons: 1) America is a word in the description used to label your country and 2)It is the portion of the world in which your country exists. This word is similar to crossdresser in that it does not say what it is or even who it is, but rather something more like why it is. The U.S.A. is not unique in using this form of labelling itself as we had the former U.S.S.R. and the U.A.E.

"America" could be used to describe any other country from Canada south to Argentina, but none of them have any need to do so as they all have a name. Besides, one of those countries has applied that label to themselves, so why create confusion. Incidentally, should Hawaiians call themselves Americans? Reason 1) says yes while reason 2) says no.

Your "dead horse" is why I tried to keep the OP away from specific labels to concentrate on the generalities of labels.

Your cordial non-American Canadian

Veronica